[HN Gopher] Mossad assassinated Iran's chief nuke scientist with...
___________________________________________________________________
Mossad assassinated Iran's chief nuke scientist with remote AI gun
- report
Author : bryan0
Score : 76 points
Date : 2021-09-18 20:19 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jpost.com)
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| So what is Israel likely to do when Iran has a working nuke?
|
| I ask as a half jew. These questions are intensely interesting to
| me.
|
| Probably "no one knows" is a decent answer, but I can't help but
| wonder what sort of plans are already in place.
|
| EDIT: I immediately regret asking about politics. Never mind.
|
| Hopefully things will work out.
| ianleeclark wrote:
| > So what is Israel likely to do when Iran has a working nuke?
|
| There's a big assumption in this statement. Hopefully stop
| attacking them if the assumption holds up.
| shoo wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction ;
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction#Cri...
| jsudi wrote:
| Demand the USA pays for an endless war in money and American
| lives, obviously.
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| An anti-Semitic, inaccurate trope. Israel had no horse in the
| Afghanistan fiasco, no interest in seeing Iran consume Iraq's
| power elite (status quo now), no love for Assad's continued
| reign in Syria, and zero interest in US interventions in
| Kosovo, Panama, Grenada, Vietnam or Korea. By contrast,
| Israeli lives sacrificed in Lebanon & Syria & on behalf of
| Jordan have spared the US any need to intervene significantly
| (if at all) in those countries. Not to mention Iran's
| expenditures to undermine Israel limits its ability to
| undermine the Gulf States.
| neartheplain wrote:
| The influence of the Israel lobby on the 2003 Iraq invasion
| is not an anti-Semitic trope, it is recorded and
| acknowledged history. The final decision to invade lay with
| George W. Bush, and the Israel lobby was far from the only
| factor in his decision, but their influence was significant
| and cannot be denied. From the London Review of Books on
| John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt's "The Israel Lobby":
|
| >Pressure from Israel and the Lobby was not the only factor
| behind the decision to attack Iraq in March 2003, but it
| was critical. Some Americans believe that this was a war
| for oil, but there is hardly any direct evidence to support
| this claim. Instead, the war was motivated in good part by
| a desire to make Israel more secure.
|
| >According to Philip Zelikow, a former member of the
| president's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, the
| executive director of the 9/11 Commission, and now a
| counsellor to Condoleezza Rice, the 'real threat' from Iraq
| was not a threat to the United States. The 'unstated
| threat' was the 'threat against Israel', Zelikow told an
| audience at the University of Virginia in September 2002.
| 'The American government,' he added, 'doesn't want to lean
| too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular
| sell.'
|
| https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-
| mearsheimer/the...
| sevensunsets wrote:
| There's nothing wrong with discussing the reality of
| Israeli Zionist influence on US & World governemnts.
|
| "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are
| not allowed to criticize"
|
| If you'd like to learn more, simply read Culture of
| Critique (google Culture of Critique PDF for a free
| version) to learn about the principles of Judaism and the
| (lack of) respect they have for non-Jews (considered
| "cattle" by "the chosen").
|
| Nah, let's lose the facade. Israel, Mossad, and the Zionist
| Lobby has been playing this game for a long time, but we of
| the free internet have been watching and discussing the
| situation for years.
|
| It has long been time for this discussion to exit the
| shadows. It is not anti-semitic to note the
| disporportionate influence Israeli & Zionists have on all
| leadership of all three branches of the US government. (Not
| to mention their involvement in other governments as well
| as revolutions-- Bolshevik & Chinese communist revolutions
| were funded & advised by Jews.)
|
| imho: it's Anti-American not to discuss this situation.
|
| Biden's administration leadership is majority populated by
| Jews:
|
| TLDR List: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-
| the-biden-admin...
|
| More in depth background info in this list:
| https://www.timesofisrael.com/all-the-jews-biden-has-
| tapped-...
|
| His head of intelligence is an orthodox Jewish woman
|
| https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-to-pick-orthodox-
| jewish-...
|
| This article ends with a list of Jewish administration
| leaders in Trump's circle:
| https://www.jpost.com/opinion/joe-bidens-a-team-of-jewish-
| ad...
|
| (Fun fact: all of Biden's and Trump's children are married
| to Jews as well.)
| pengaru wrote:
| Israel seems likely to receive a similarly smuggled-in
| remotely-activated attack, in the form of a small nuclear bomb,
| with no clear evidence of who's responsible.
|
| MAD doesn't seem effective if you don't _know_ who to attack...
| bawolff wrote:
| I imagine they will continue to do whatever they think serves
| their geopolitical position best.
|
| Nukes would give iran a significant power boost and bargaining
| chip, but it wouldn't magically make them rulers of the world.
| Iran's geopolitical enemies would still try to contain them,
| iran would still try and not be contained.
|
| Similar to what happened when the soviets got nukes, but on a
| much smaller regional scale.
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| The only local enemies capable of containing Iran is Israel.
| Even the Saudis are afraid of Iran. Hence the Abraham Accords
| and a peace treaty between Israel and Saudi Arabia is
| imminent. And Israel isn't intimidating every single one of
| its neighbours and trying to control them and starting proxy
| wars with them. And committing acts of terror against
| _random_ Iranians all over the world. So Israel have the
| moral upper ground here.
| LegitShady wrote:
| when iran gets nukes, saudi will get nukes.
| [deleted]
| slim wrote:
| Why? Is sniper a rare skill ? Is it more difficult to smuggle
| bombs ? Or to assassinate a scientist in any other conventional
| way ? It looks like a coverup for the fact they have sniper in
| Iran
| [deleted]
| 01100011 wrote:
| Not a lot of details in the article. I'm curious how 'AI' was
| actually used. Was it used to compensate for wind, distance, etc?
| Was it used to alert when the target was in range? Was it allowed
| to automatically recognize the target and deliver a kill shot?
| Was it used to make sure no innocents were behind him? Why did
| the apparatus weigh over a ton?
|
| It was only a matter of time before this happened though. With
| off-the-shelf technology today, even lesser advanced nations,
| groups and even individuals could put something like this
| together. Throw in the skills of a more advanced nation, and you
| get something like this that works from a mile away and
| effectively destroys all trace of itself before anyone notices.
| Devices like this could lie in wait for years waiting for the
| target information to be passed to them. We live in interesting
| times.
| benbenbenjerry wrote:
| The term AI was used by The Jerusalem Post in this article to
| get the attention of people in places like here to give the
| impression that Israel is technologically advanced and
| therefore should be more appealing than Iran.
| funerr wrote:
| Your last comment implies that you know for sure that the JP
| wants to give an impression, which could be true, but I would
| be careful saying things like this with 100% certainty.
| secabeen wrote:
| The NYT article they're cribbing from has a lot more details,
| but yes, the AI was to compensate for wind, distance and
| latency to the operator:
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/world/middleeast/iran-nuc...
| Zanni wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20210918090515/https://www.nytim.
| ..
| neartheplain wrote:
| Consumers can buy similar off-the-shelf "smart" rifle scopes,
| marketed primarily for hunting:
|
| >The Eliminator LaserScope is the most innovative and
| effective hunting riflescope in the world. With the push of a
| button, the Eliminator IV ranges and displays the distance to
| the target (factoring in angle). It instantly calculates and
| displays the exact aiming point and wind data all inside the
| scope for complete situational awareness.
|
| >The built-in laser rangefinder is now capable of ranging out
| to 2,000 yards. Trajectory compensation is accurate at any
| magnification, and the integrated inclinometer compensates
| for shots at any uphill or downhill angle.
|
| https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/laser-range-finding-
| elim...
| cududa wrote:
| Right but the actuator hardware stabilization includes a
| lot more like measuring and predicting preposition
| movements, calculating wind speed into the actuator, etc.
|
| This system gives a shooter the calibration data and they
| can adapt second to second. Replicating a brain for a truck
| mounted gun with a 1.5s latency is a 10x magnitude of
| complexity
| JackFr wrote:
| According to NYT article the AI was used to compensate for the
| movement of the truck from the guns recoil and the 1.5 second
| round trip latency to the operator.
|
| Again according to the NYT what was astonishing was the
| accuracy. Fifteen rounds were shot and no one other than the
| target was injured.
|
| Of course, take it all with a grain of salt, as both Iran and
| Israel have reasons to lie about what actually went down.
| Israel would rather everyone believe they've got super James
| Bond devices rather than moles in the Iranian intelligence and
| security apparatus. Weirdly, Iran would rather everyone believe
| that too.
| LewisVerstappen wrote:
| Don't really know how to feel about this.
|
| On one hand, it could mean less collateral damage and fewer
| civilian casualties than drone strikes.
|
| Just yesterday, the US had a drone strike that killed 10
| civilians. The military and administration proceeded to lie
| about the strike and pretend they hit the target, but they
| were called out by the NY Times and had to backtrack.
|
| We could see fewer civilian deaths with technology like this.
|
| On the other hand, this could reduce the "barrier to action"
| that countries have before they attempt a targeted killing.
|
| Which means even less "due process" for foreign
| internationals who are perceived to be enemies of the state.
| If the CIA thinks you're a threat, you're dead.
|
| Let's ignore the question of how good the CIA is at
| intelligence-gathering.
| hamburgerwah wrote:
| I don't know what else could make it any clearer but the world is
| already well into an AI terminator WW3.
| safog wrote:
| Isn't that fine? Let's get a bunch of robot armies in one place
| like we used to do in the ancient days and let them duke it
| out. Whoever wins wins.
|
| Army jobs getting automated is one thing I could get behind.
|
| Just keep the drones out of the civilian areas.
| tsimionescu wrote:
| > Just keep the drones out of the civilian areas.
|
| I have some bad news for you out of Afghanistan...
| praptak wrote:
| That's exactly what Gatling thought of machine guns. They
| were supposed to automate the military jobs which was
| supposed to limit casualties and also make humanity
| reconsider going to war.
| mydeskistoosm wrote:
| Can you direct me somewhere to learn more about Gatling's
| ethos?
| chollida1 wrote:
| > I don't know what else could make it any clearer but the
| world is already well into an AI terminator WW3.
|
| What does this even mean? You've combined 3 completely
| unrelated terms in Ai, terminator and WW3 to create, well I'm
| not sure what you mean here....
| Sharlin wrote:
| In which way are they unrelated in a cultural context where
| _Terminator_ the movie franchise is a thing?
| user-the-name wrote:
| In the context of the _real world_ , which is where we
| live, and which is different from a fictional movie.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Wait, wasn't the Terminator Governor of California a
| while back?
| [deleted]
| Sharlin wrote:
| It's one thing to argue that an AI terminator WW3
| scenario is unlikely or implausible. It's just
| disingenious to claim those three things have nothing to
| do with each other.
| iratewizard wrote:
| An AI terminator driven WW3 might make more sense. AI
| terminator being an AI programed to terminate people (that
| could go off the rails).
| monocasa wrote:
| Terminator is a movie about how AI was given too much control
| over military resources and started WW3 in order to wipe out
| as much as possible of humanity in one go. This story is
| about the integration of AI into the military, in a way
| designed to kill humans.
|
| It doesn't seem unrelated to me.
| jonas21 wrote:
| The link seems to be a summary of this article in the NYT:
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/world/middleeast/iran-nuc...
|
| It provides more detail and context - the "AI" system was
| apparently used to properly to compensate for latency and wind
| when aiming the gun.
| aaron695 wrote:
| If you are wondering what the AI bit is, it's the claimed facial
| recognition.
|
| The rest is ~high school mathematics.
|
| Perhaps it could lock onto moving objects (also possibly AI),
| like a car, once the operator selects them But this is not talked
| about.
|
| It's hard to believe not shooting his wife was not just good
| luck. But perhaps.
|
| Real remote gun in Israel -
| https://mobile.twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/5067115366859...
|
| Cool cyber punk remote water cannon
| -https://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/machine-installed-bethlehem/
| throwerexpat1 wrote:
| Could you imagine the uproar if Iran were using robots to murder
| people in America or Israel?
|
| "Do as we say, not as we do." As an American, I have long-since
| accepted that my home nation is the bad guy.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| This kind of thing seems to be a rapidly growing trend. Anyone
| see this?
|
| "See this report, and the curious lack of media interest:
|
| "According to the U.N. report, Turkish-made Kargu-2 lethal
| autonomous aircraft launched so-called swarm attacks, likely on
| behalf of Libya's Government of National Accord, against the
| warlord Haftar's militias in March last year, marking the first
| time AI-equipped drones accomplished a successful attack." Jun 7,
| 2021 VOA
| sevensunsets wrote:
| "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not
| allowed to criticize"
|
| If you'd like to learn more, simply read Culture of Critique
| (google Culture of Critique PDF for a free version) to learn
| about the principles of Judaism and the (lack of) respect they
| have for non-Jews (considered "cattle" by "the chosen").
|
| It has long been time for this discussion to exit the shadows. It
| is not anti-semitic to note the disproportionate influence
| Israeli & Zionists have on all leadership of all three branches
| of the US government. (Not to mention their involvement in other
| governments as well as revolutions-- Bolshevik & Chinese
| communist revolutions were funded & advised by Jews.)
|
| imho: it's Anti-American not to discuss this situation.
| benbenbenjerry wrote:
| Israel seems to be trying to buy time before the inevitable
| happens. Not sure if it's good strategy to keep assassinating
| scientists when you're going to need every ounce of International
| support you can muster when the Iranians rain down on you with
| their nukes.
| LegitShady wrote:
| those people who believe iran's development of nuclear weapons
| is legitimate and should not be opposed are unlike to muster
| any goodwill to israel anyways.
| sixsunsets wrote:
| "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not
| allowed to criticize"
|
| If you'd like to learn more, simply read Culture of Critique
| (google Culture of Critique PDF for a free version) to learn
| about the principles of Judaism and the (lack of) respect they
| have for non-Jews (considered "cattle" by "the chosen").
|
| It has long been time for this discussion to exit the shadows. It
| is not anti-semitic to note the disproportionate influence
| Israeli & Zionists have on all leadership of all three branches
| of the US government. (Not to mention their involvement in other
| governments as well as revolutions-- Bolshevik & Chinese
| communist revolutions were funded & advised by Jews.)
| popileviz wrote:
| Iran should have nuclear weapons if their citizens can be
| assassinated by foreign powers that proceed to brag about it
| openly. Imagine if the reverse happened - an Israeli scientist
| killed by Iranian special forces. The United States would be
| revving up for Iraq 2.0 in a matter of hours.
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| It is hard enough for the US and Russia to prevent accidental
| nuclear launch, detonation or loss. Many such incidents over
| the years. So, before you righteously wish nuclear capability
| on Iran, you might consider the non-linear increase in risks
| associated with each new entry into the nuclear club.
| yummypaint wrote:
| Yes, we need to collectively do everything we can to prevent
| a nuclear tragedy of the commons. That includes continued
| disarmarment of countries already armed. The more devices
| exist in the world, the higher the probability that some will
| fall into the hands of people who are not subject to the same
| incentive structures as secular governments (i.e. religious
| nuts) who would eagerly use them. One nuke being unexpectedly
| detonated in a major city could easily escalate into world-
| ending catastrophy.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| > The United States would be revving up for Iraq 2.0 in a
| matter of hours.
|
| I doubt it. We don't know what would happen in a fictional
| hypothetical situation.
| amoshi wrote:
| This seems to be a clickbait headline - where is the AI part? It
| was just a remotely controlled gun.
|
| >Next, the report details how the sniper who took out Fakhrizadeh
| did so remotely from Israel, over 1,600 kilometers away, since
| the hit squad had long ago left Iran.
| gameshot911 wrote:
| The NYT article mentioned facial recognition tech, as well as
| software which would compensate from the lag inherent in
| controlling the gun by satellite. Maybe the article considers
| one of those AI?
| _alxk wrote:
| They apparently used some ML to make predictions about the
| position of the driver and the future position of the vehicle
| to account for the lag when they pulled the remote trigger from
| hundreds of miles away.
| cududa wrote:
| Right. As well, the gun mounted in the truck needs to account
| for real world wind, vehicle recoil/ follow through
| uncoder0 wrote:
| That's pretty trivial 'AI'. The headline mentioning AI is
| just for clickbait, in reality it was just a remotely-
| operated drone gun with a fire control system.
| throwaway984393 wrote:
| Most 'AI' is trivial. If spam detection had been invented
| today they'd call it "Spam AI".
| Isamu wrote:
| Sounds like something you'd use a Kalman filter for.
|
| Except maybe because a Kalman filter expects Gaussian inputs,
| something fancier is used to deal with nonlinear inputs?
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter
| [deleted]
| kkoncevicius wrote:
| So this is a public bragging about illegally putting a gun in a
| foreign country and assassinating a person, all the while being
| comfortably sure that no national or international pushback will
| come.
|
| Quite disturbing to read.
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| What's illegal about it?
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Iran and Israel are at low level war since many decades.
| greenpeacemaker wrote:
| This question is out of pure curiosity: can you give me some
| examples of this "low level war" being fought? Specifically,
| what has Israel done that's along the same lines as funding
| Hezbollah and Hamas?
| maweki wrote:
| Though you don't see Iran going around killing the people
| responsible for Israel's nuclear arsenal.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| I can't imagine it's for lack of trying.
| benbenbenjerry wrote:
| Trying to assassinate non-existing nuclear scientists?
| Yeah that's hard to imagine. Israel already has access to
| pretty advanced nuclear technology it is not actively
| trying to develop one like Iran is.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| You think Israel has zero nuclear scientists? An arsenal
| requires maintenance, even if you aren't actively making
| new warheads.
| maweki wrote:
| I rather not discuss the whole conflict. The fact is
| though, that modern Iran has little to no history of
| military intervention* and at least no history to suggest
| that any (if any really exists) ambition towards
| acquiring nuclear weapons is anything more than sabre-
| rattling.
|
| * Wikipedia comes up with the odd missile-strike against
| the islamic state.
|
| Edit: There's a difference between financing
| terrorism/freedom fighters, which about every country in
| the region (and basically everybody else) does, and
| preparing a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
| flyinglizard wrote:
| You can't be serious. Iran is one of the most militarily
| active players in the Middle East. They usually don't do
| this through the Iranian military itself (other than
| wanting to send a message like the attack on Saudi Abaqiq
| facilities with cruise missiles in 2019 [0]). They use
| proxies, which receive funding, weapons, training and
| orders from Iran. Hezbollah, Houthis, Hamas, Islamic
| Jihad, various Iraqi and Syrian militas are all
| extensions of Iran itself and perform daily attacks.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abqaiq%E2%80%93Khurais_
| attack
| greenpeacemaker wrote:
| Attribution is difficult if you're behind a VPN
| LewisVerstappen wrote:
| How many Israeli scientists have Iran assassinated?
| benbenbenjerry wrote:
| None because Israel is not actively attempting to advance
| its nuclear technology capabilities. Because it already has
| access to advanced nuclear technology.
| pope_meat wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israe
| l
| neartheplain wrote:
| "...because Israel is not actively attempting to advance
| its nuclear technology capabilities."
|
| Says who?
|
| >Retired in the 1990s, the Jericho-1, like its
| successors, was intended for nuclear delivery.
|
| >From the mid-1970s to the late 1980s, Israel developed a
| longer-range version by extending the Jericho's length to
| 15m and increasing the diameter to 1.35m. Designated the
| Jericho-2, this system has an estimated range of
| 1,500-3,500km, with the same 1,000kg payload.
|
| >According to several analysts, Israel also has an
| intermediate-range missile, possibly called the
| Jericho-3. Reports of testing - in 2008, 2011, 2013, 2019
| and (possibly) 2020 - related to a longer-range system
| support this assessment, but it has not been verified.
|
| https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2021/08/israel-
| ballistic...
| colpabar wrote:
| This question is out of pure curiosity: can you give me some
| examples of this "low level war" being fought? Specifically,
| what has Iran done that's along the same lines as murdering a
| nuclear scientist?
| pengaru wrote:
| Pure curiosity yet incapable of the simplest of simple
| searches
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations
| neartheplain wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Conflict_with_Israe
| l
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| Ongoing sponsorship of Hamas, Hezbollah and so on?
| zdragnar wrote:
| Iran openly finances Hezbollah and Hamas, who fire rockets
| and missiles indiscriminately into civilian areas of
| Israel. The Hamas charter in particular includes language
| calling for either the destruction or dissolution of the
| state of Israel itself.
|
| That isn't to excuse anyone, but yes, Iran and Israel have
| effectively been at war for decades.
| imachine1980_ wrote:
| The conflict involves threats and hostility by Iran's
| leaders against Israel, and their declared objective to
| dissolve the Jewish state, Israel and Iran doesn't share
| frontiers but Iran finance support is key for terrorist
| groups like Hezbollah
| flyinglizard wrote:
| Bombing of the AMIA is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A
| MIA_bombing#:~:text=The%20AMI....
|
| Burgas bus bombing is another:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Burgas_bus_bombing
|
| Arms, money and support for Hamas, Hezbollah and the
| Islamic Jihad is another one (Hezbollah is practically an
| IRGC unit). Arming various militias in Iraq, Yemen and
| Syria against Israel and its allies.
| sgregnt wrote:
| This is a leak like hundred of other leaks.
|
| But, it seems like you are trying to push a certain agenda and
| paint the info in a certain way.
|
| Here's another way to frame the same info: At least someone
| tries to prevent a war and prevent bad actors from obtaining
| nuclear weapons.
| ianleeclark wrote:
| > Here's another way to frame the same info: At least someone
| tries to prevent a war and prevent bad actors from obtaining
| nuclear weapons.
|
| We used to have inspectors to do such a thing. Now we're just
| left with an incredibly convenient Schrodingers nuke to keep
| those not yet fatigued in a constant state of fear.
| flyinglizard wrote:
| Have inspectors prevented the Syrian nuclear program (which
| Israel bombed in 2007), the Iraqi nuclear program
| (likewise, 1981), the North Korean one or the Pakistani
| one? Heck, not even the South African one which they
| willingly dismantled.
|
| Nukes are too serious to leave to the supervision of a
| political mission of scientists.
| ianleeclark wrote:
| You're missing the Israeli nuclear program, as well.
|
| > Nukes are too serious to leave to the supervision of a
| political mission of scientists.
|
| I don't care if a country has nukes. I'm much more afraid
| of what will happen to countries without them: you listed
| Iraq and we can see the hundreds of thousands of dead
| civilians.
| sgregnt wrote:
| Two things ...
|
| First, we used not to blaim anyone without a due
| process....before you take a stand and blaime Israel,
| instead maybe you should argue to send inspectors to
| examine if the article is true, maybe it is not Israel or
| this never happened, did you follow a due process before
| publically assigning guilt?
|
| Second, who are "we", in your srnyense? The West, China?
| Iran, Hizbollah, Americans? UN?
|
| I recall no inspectors during Cuban crisis, hmm... why
| threaten world with nuclear war, instead there could be
| annual inspections!
| ianleeclark wrote:
| > First, we used not to blaim anyone without a due
| process
|
| Were not blaming "anyone", were blaming a state based on
| the reporting of NYT and corroborated by Jerusalem Post.
| Who else do you want, Judge Judy?
|
| > Second, who are "we", in your srnyense?
|
| Signatories of the JCPOA. So most of what could be called
| "the west," if you believe in such things.
|
| > I recall no inspectors during Cuban crisis
|
| The JCPOA was signed several decades later and between a
| different set of countries. Not really sure what you're
| trying to say here, but maybe check out https://en.m.wiki
| pedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_... first
| yyyk wrote:
| It's more disturbing to read complaints about a strike against
| a brigadier general, where two countries are at war with each
| other, a mere few days after we learnt the US droned 10
| civilians in Kabul as a 'retaliation' for an IS strike. We at
| HN should look inwards on this one.
| coder583 wrote:
| Apparently you can just throw around words like "terrorist"
| against the enemies of US and the genocidal state of
| "Israel", and then killing innocent civilians is now
| justified. Who are the real terrorists?
|
| It's just the same old story, a group of humans justifying
| murder for their own self-interest, and their brains coming
| up with the most bizarre nonsense to try and rationalize it.
| Some of the people even consider themselves "rationalists".
|
| The same justifications could be used to justify stuff like
| the holocaust, but who cares about logical consistency?
| [deleted]
| koheripbal wrote:
| There is no world court or legal structure. The word "illegal"
| has no meaning in international affairs.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| UN's International Court of Justice (ICJ)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice
| readonthegoapp wrote:
| The court that prosecuted the Nazis (and others) would like a
| word.
| kkoncevicius wrote:
| This action was performed in a specific country - Iran. I am
| sure it was illegal there. Isn't that enough?
| m-p-3 wrote:
| A legal system only has influence within its borders though
| (other than extradition treaties). And since the drone
| can't be prosecuted and the operators are outside of the
| borders, what can you do but give them bad press?
| true_religion wrote:
| A lot of times when people say illegal, they really want
| to say immoral but that word sounds too out of place in
| common language.
|
| Is it okay to assassinate scientists? How about tech CEOs
| and software engineers?
|
| To me, the most troubling thing is that Iran seems to do
| nothing in response.
| tomp wrote:
| If Iran could (i.e. had the technological capabilities to)
| meaningfully retaliate against Israel (without suffering
| too much consequences), they very likely would.
| bawolff wrote:
| Were you under the impression that groups like Mossad, CIA,
| etc were law abiding groups? Their entire mission is to do
| illegal shit to forward their countries' national interest.
| kkoncevicius wrote:
| So if these are not "law abiding" groups, then by
| definition part of what they do is illegal. Which is the
| word I used in my comment.
|
| I don't understand these replies.
| bawolff wrote:
| I'm a different person than the one who said nothing is
| illegal. I think nothing is illegal in international
| relations is a cop-out answer (and not technically true.
| I dont know about this particular act, but there are
| plenty of illegal things under int law). Technically yes
| - its unlikely to be resolved by a court. However i think
| most people agree that in general assainations are at
| least morally repugant (although im sure some people
| think its justified sometimes).
|
| Anyways, lots of countries (Iran included) fund these
| type of spy groups. They do bad shit. That is their
| function. I imagine their masters think the ends justify
| means. Regardless, complaining that spy agencies are
| unethical is like complaining the mafia is unethical. Its
| just something that basically goes without saying.
| kkoncevicius wrote:
| I agree with everything you wrote here, but we talk past
| each other. The article was disturbing and it left an
| impression on me. There aren't many articles bragging
| about assassinations; CIA doesn't do that and if it did
| there would be domestic opposition. Yet the tone of this
| article makes it clear that they are not worried about
| that. That's why I wrote the original comment. It's not
| about "complaining that spy agencies are unethical". Deep
| down I just don't like what it represents and I don't
| think any post-hoc rationalisation will change that.
| [deleted]
| flyinglizard wrote:
| There are many things which are illegal in Iran yet
| practiced widely, like consuming alcohol or being attracted
| to your own gender. I wouldn't use the Iranian book of laws
| as a moral compass myself, but to each their own.
| [deleted]
| benbenbenjerry wrote:
| How bizarre for you to sidestep the issue and go after
| issues with the laws of Iran! In what country is it legal
| to assassinate a scientist?
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| He's a nuclear scientist. Working on a nuclear bomb. For
| Iran. Wich is run by radical extremists. He's essentially
| a terrorist. Albeit one who goes around in a white lab
| coat as opposed to a machine gun and who has never harmed
| a fly but is more dangerous than the entire taliban put
| together.
| coder583 wrote:
| and mossad/israel isn't a terorrist state? Are you
| serious?
| flyinglizard wrote:
| GP asked if the fact it's illegal in _Iran_ is not
| enough, and I say the Iranian code of law has no
| implications on what I think is moral or not.
|
| Personally I think that it is not outside any moral
| boundaries to assassinate a scientist which is working on
| WMDs. In fact, I'll claim the opposite: if you are a
| leader of a country which you know is potentially
| targeted by WMDs and you have the strategic and tactical
| opportunity to assassinate the people working on that
| program, then you should.
|
| Going back to laws, being a scientist doesn't give you
| any kind of immunity to any law. It shouldn't grant you
| immunity here. Once you work on military programs, it's
| all fair game.
| pinewurst wrote:
| We considered shooting Werner Heisenberg during WW2 if
| there was convincing evidence he was moving a Nazi atomic
| weapons program along. Certainly that would have been
| against German or Swiss (this was during a visit to
| Switzerland) law.
| refenestrator wrote:
| A key factor there is the word 'war'.
| true_religion wrote:
| Did Iran and Israel ever sign a peace treaty? In 2020,
| the UAE normalized relations with Israel, and many
| countries took the opportunity to remind everyone that
| even if we are all dying of COVID, they would prefer that
| Israel go first.
| sgregnt wrote:
| In many countries authoruzed military operation on foreign
| territory against what is perceived as existential thread
| to its existence is legal. So it is legal by Israeli law,
| isn't this enough?
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Law is quite compatible with a state of anarchy and a lack of
| centralized authority, particularly customary law. Many
| people would include customary law as a kind of 'legal
| structure'.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Pretty badass. Does it prevent more nuclear weapons? Yes? Win
| in my book.
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