[HN Gopher] On YouTube's recommendation system
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       On YouTube's recommendation system
        
       Author : scommab
       Score  : 162 points
       Date   : 2021-09-17 16:47 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.youtube)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.youtube)
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | One thing I don't like the recommendation system is that it
       | offers videos I already watched and even bookmarked. It also
       | offered videos from people I subscribed but this is OK-ish
       | because some accounts have hundreds or even thousands of videos.
       | 
       | Basically, all recommendation system are based on one hypothesis:
       | I know more about your preference than yourself. I can't say I
       | agree with it.
        
       | jlos wrote:
       | So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I actually enjoy
       | YouTube's recommendation algorithm, though I do make an effort to
       | point it in the right direction. One example is guitar players:
       | I'm an active guitarist, I've been for years, but as I got older
       | the discovery phase of music dropped off. However I found YouTube
       | constantly recommends amazing, phenomenal guitar players who
       | almost immediately move into my list favorites. But some of these
       | guitars only have a few thousand subscribers , there's very
       | little chance I would have ever found them without youtube, and
       | almost certainly no chance they would ever have an audience
       | without this recommendation algorithm
        
       | throwawaysea wrote:
       | > 3. Do recommendations drive viewers to increasingly extreme
       | content?
       | 
       | > As I've explained, we actively demote low-quality information
       | in recommendations. But we also take the additional step of
       | showing viewers authoritative videos about topics that may
       | interest them. Say I watch a video about the COVID-19 vaccine. In
       | my Up Next panel, I'll see videos from reputable sources like Vox
       | and Bloomberg Quicktake and won't see videos that contain
       | misleading information about vaccines (to the extent that our
       | system can detect them).
       | 
       | What is Google/YouTube's full list of "reputable sources". Is it
       | even reasonable to maintain such a list given how often sources
       | treated as authoritative can be wrong? Doesn't this amount to
       | artificially converging users' information exposure towards
       | either the reigning authority or towards whatever Google/YouTube
       | favor?
       | 
       | Generalizing my concerns further, I am not comfortable with
       | having a narrow set of monopolistic tech giants serve as king
       | maker in our information landscape. Perhaps what we need first
       | and foremost is a renewed set of anti-trust laws to break up
       | companies with giant market caps and to address the reduced
       | competition faced by widely used platforms built on network
       | effects.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | I always wonder if those big platforms commercialize
       | recommendations. I'm pretty sure it happens one way or another
       | with the music app. The auto generated playlist always have some
       | artists that I really dislike and would never listen, but are
       | pretty popular.
        
       | shaicoleman wrote:
       | The best recommendation system for me is none at all.
       | 
       | I recommend using an extension called 'Improve YouTube!' [1],
       | which allows to collapse/hide
       | recommendations/comments/ads/related videos/autoplay etc.
       | 
       | There's also YouTube Vanced [2], which allows some of these
       | things on Android.
       | 
       | 1. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/improve-youtube-
       | vi...
       | 
       | 2. https://vancedapp.com/
        
       | keb_ wrote:
       | I use a bit of CSS to remove the sections of the page that show
       | recommendations while watching a video, and turn off autoplay. I
       | then only ever navigate to my subscriptions page. In general, I
       | try to avoid YouTube recommendations at all costs.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | The best YouTube interface I've yet found is the commandline
       | "mps-youtube" (mpsyt) utility (https://pypi.org/project/mps-
       | youtube/)
       | 
       | Unfortunately, it's been all but entirely crippled through API
       | limits.
       | 
       | When it did work, what it allowed was:
       | 
       | - A terminal text-only interface.
       | 
       | - The ability to search by keyword _or_ publisher.
       | 
       | - The ability to restrict to music, or all videos.
       | 
       | - The ability to set playback preferences (audio only, video,
       | preferred resolution)
       | 
       | - The ability to create current or permanently saved playlists.
       | These could be edited down from the search results.
       | 
       | - Runs on Linux, MacOS, Android (under Termux via pip), and
       | Windows (Cygwin or WSL). On Android, it permits backgrounding
       | video or listening to audio only.
       | 
       | - Accrues no user history.
       | 
       | - Recommendations-free.
       | 
       | And the killer feature:
       | 
       | - The ability to play through a curated playlist from beginning
       | to end.
       | 
       | (It also suppresses advertising, which is a plus in my book.)
       | 
       | You could also download directly from the utility (audio, video,
       | or both). All state are retained locally, there's no need to have
       | or use an account.
       | 
       | For topics of interest, I would stack up 5, or 10 or 20, or 40
       | videos, and roll through them over an hour, day, or week. It was
       | really marvelous.
       | 
       | As noted, YouTube killed it through their application API
       | control.
       | 
       | mpv offers the ability to play back either a single video, a
       | (separately maintained) playlist, or a channel or YouTube
       | playlist, and is my usual go-to. It's also useful on other sites
       | (mpv uses the youtube-dl utility which supports a whole slew of
       | video and audio sites and platforms).
       | 
       | Absent mpsyt, what I'll frequently do is use YouTube's site
       | search or a third party (e.g., DDG video search) to grab a bunch
       | of video URLs, and either play those from the commandline (mpv
       | will take multiple arguments) or as a saved file (useful for
       | restarting later). This gives an ad-free experience as well.
       | 
       | But for YouTube itself, mpsyt was amazing.
        
       | pg_bot wrote:
       | Can we get a button to stop recommending videos that have already
       | been watched? On the front page out of 12 videos listed, I've
       | already seen 7 of them and have no need to watch them again.
        
         | sbierwagen wrote:
         | If you're logged in, hover over the video, click the three dot
         | menu, then select "Not Interested".
         | 
         | If you are not logged in you can't do this, for obvious algo
         | manipulation reasons.
        
           | pg_bot wrote:
           | This doesn't work, it will just show more videos I've already
           | seen.
        
             | sbierwagen wrote:
             | Well yes, it doesn't change the algorithm. It just drops
             | that particular video.
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | You're right but somehow I would think that YT should know
           | which videos I've already watched...
        
             | sbierwagen wrote:
             | There's lots of music on youtube. Some "videos" get
             | rewatched hundreds of times.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | Those are in a category called music.
               | 
               | Even without the category system, if the user never ever
               | goes back to rewatch a video they've seen, it could
               | perhaps realize that the user doesn't _want_ to rewatch
               | videos they 've already seen. Or if some videos or
               | channels have a very high re-watch rate and others don't
               | (presumably music channels vs., say, a random furniture
               | restoration channel), it could tune for that. Clearly
               | they're not separating the types, and it's not because
               | they're not capable.
        
           | function_seven wrote:
           | Yeah, but then Youtube thinks, "He hates that channel!",
           | rather than, "He doesn't want to rewatch old videos."
           | 
           | I keep getting old furniture restoration videos in my feed.
           | I've seen them already. How about different channels on the
           | same topic with new videos posted?
        
             | gothroach wrote:
             | When you select not interested, it gives the option of
             | saying it's either because you already watched the video or
             | that you don't like the channel. I don't know quite why
             | they keep recommending videos I've watched recently, but at
             | least telling YouTube I've seen a video (...) prevents it
             | from spamming my recommendations.
        
               | dashoffset wrote:
               | > I don't know quite why they keep recommending videos
               | I've watched recently
               | 
               | You probably don't have kids.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | Because kids watch furniture restoration videos that GP
               | was talking about?
        
             | risho wrote:
             | you can tell youtube you've already seen it. you hit "not
             | interested" and then click "tell us why" and then hit "i've
             | already seen it".
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | It's quite a few clicks when you could just mentally skip
               | over it, but indeed I wanted it to learn so I went
               | through the trouble. Again and again. Probably more than
               | a hundred times. It doesn't learn. I just pass over them
               | now. The algorithm probably knows better than all of us
               | what keeps us longer on the site anyway and the button is
               | just a dummy.
        
               | function_seven wrote:
               | Thanks. I never got to that step because I didn't know
               | there'd be another question.
        
           | gremloni wrote:
           | That doesn't solve the problem at all. I like and am
           | interested in the videos I've watched. I want the algorithm
           | to know I'm interested, I just don't want it watch something
           | I've watched again.
        
         | stewartmcgown wrote:
         | Go to the end of the list of category pills on the homepage and
         | click 'New to You'
        
         | dpcx wrote:
         | It's not perfect, but in Firefox this definitely helps:
         | https://github.com/EvHaus/youtube-hide-watched
        
         | willhinsa wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28569079
         | 
         | > 2. If you have set your history to expire after some amount
         | of time, it will start re-recommending videos you've already
         | seen once it has forgotten you have watched them.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | bergesenha wrote:
         | I second this. I also wish the algorithm would throw a real
         | curveball once in a while too, something completely different
         | to what I have been caught in.
        
           | imglorp wrote:
           | While we're at it, how about just let us call an API and use
           | our own recommender?
           | 
           | They probably hate this idea but who knows, that might even
           | increase vid views.
        
       | hwers wrote:
       | Best decision I ever made was installing an extension to get rid
       | of the recommendations (they're such crap - I wish they would
       | actually try to recommend me things with a high likelihood of me
       | enjoying rather than whatever propaganda youtube wants me to
       | see).
        
         | htrp wrote:
         | You can't say things like this without telling us what
         | extension this is
        
           | hwers wrote:
           | This one https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/unhook-
           | remove-yout... I also remove comments and 'similar videos'.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | You can accomplish this without a dedicated extension by using
         | either uBlock Origin's element blocker, or if you're handy with
         | CSS, the Stylus CSS manager.
         | 
         | Using uBlock Origin, right-click the part of the page you want
         | removed, select the "remove element" option, confirm it's got
         | the right bits selected, and nuke.
         | 
         | Using Stylus, you'll be opening up the element inspector and
         | finding the relevant selectors. Fastest option is to apply a
         | "display: none important!;" directive to that.
         | 
         | Stylus is by far the more powerful and flexible of the two, and
         | you can do far more with it if you care to. uBlock should be
         | sufficient though.
        
       | LarryDarrell wrote:
       | > 3. Do recommendations drive viewers to increasingly extreme
       | content?
       | 
       | > As I've explained, we actively demote low-quality information
       | in recommendations. But we also take the additional step of
       | showing viewers authoritative videos about topics that may
       | interest them. Say I watch a video about the COVID-19 vaccine. In
       | my Up Next panel, I'll see videos from reputable sources like Vox
       | and Bloomberg Quicktake and won't see videos that contain
       | misleading information about vaccines (to the extent that our
       | system can detect them).
       | 
       | When my parents watch 30 consecutive videos that mention that you
       | can't trust the mainstream media, what good is suggesting to them
       | a Bloomberg video?
       | 
       | My parents aren't on FB or any other social media. But over the
       | last 10 years they have gone off the deep end after watching more
       | and more insane videos on Youtube. It started with hours of Ron
       | Paul videos. Then Alex Jones videos. Who knows what cretins it
       | offered up after that.
       | 
       | They've stopped talking to me recently. It's because I've gotten
       | the "Kill Shot" after they've explicitly told me not to. I'm
       | apparently going to die from the covid vaccine within the next 6
       | months to 3 years... On my last phone call, they've told me that
       | 300 old money families (who are all also insane
       | environmentalists) have hatched and are executing a plan to
       | depopulate the planet to 500 million... as told on the "Georgia
       | Guide Stones".
       | 
       | The US Government also has mind-control devices that are
       | convincing people to get the shot. They told me the mind control
       | devices were first used during the Iraq War, because it convinced
       | so much of the Iraqi Army to surrender en masse.
       | 
       | Also, all of our technology comes from the wreckage of crashed
       | UFOs, most famously the Roswell UFO. My Dad thinks I'm naive for
       | not believing this.
       | 
       | Both my parents have college degrees. My Dad has a masters in an
       | engineering field. They were once relatively un-political and
       | rode out the Great Recession without any harm. Maybe they just
       | didn't handle retirement well. But I have a decade of nearly
       | daily emails from them... "Watch this! [youtube link]". When they
       | are gone, I'll have documentation of their decent into madness,
       | with hyperlinks all going to 1 domain. I'm sure YouTube is doing
       | all they can.
        
         | jeffwask wrote:
         | Once you start watching Alex Jones videos, the algorithm starts
         | to bubble up some nasty stuff.
        
         | exolymph wrote:
         | I'm sorry that you're in this painful situation. Personally I
         | don't think the root problem is YouTube -- rather, it's your
         | parents' confirmation bias. They _want_ to believe these
         | things.
         | 
         | I've watched Alex Jones videos myself. I did not leave wanting
         | more and no recommendation algo could change that. (Lest I
         | leave the wrong impression, the same is true of AOC going live
         | on IG.)
        
           | commandlinefan wrote:
           | > They want to believe these things.
           | 
           | This isn't exactly new. When I was growing up, there were
           | tabloid newspapers in the supermarkets with wacky headlines
           | like "woman gives birth to two-headed bat", "aliens abduct
           | CEO of GM and replace him with robot clone" or "Elvis is
           | alive and acting as president of the United Nations". They've
           | moved online, but they were always there. Somebody was buying
           | them, even back then - enough to justify the costs of
           | printing them and paying to have them placed in supermarket
           | checkout counters.
           | 
           | What's also not new is the influence of unelected,
           | unaccountable busybodies interjecting themselves wherever and
           | whenever they can to suppress whatever they personally don't
           | happen to like on your behalf (always, always, "for the
           | children" as we see here). Back then it was Jerry Falwell,
           | Pat Robertson and Tipper Gore with their "moral majority" -
           | they didn't care much who believed that they needed to wear
           | tinfoil hats to protect their brains from being reprogrammed
           | by government radio waves, but they sure did care about
           | anything that undermined the position of the christian church
           | in daily life, and they were really successful with it. Now
           | all the people who opposed them back then are... doing the
           | same things themselves.
        
           | LarryDarrell wrote:
           | This may be true. Ultimately my personal story is not worth
           | much. I do know that there is a growing community of people
           | who share this story, though. One does not personally need to
           | be affected to notice an uptick in anti-knowledge behavior
           | recently.
           | 
           | The greater point is that if X percent of the population has
           | biases that if fed would lead them to deranged behavior, is
           | it responsible to take advantage of that?
           | 
           | The reasonable discussion of course goes to how big of a
           | number is X. If 100,000 families get destroyed per decade, no
           | big deal in relation to those sweet advertising impressions,
           | I guess. But if FB, YT, Reddit, etc collectively take the
           | mostly hands off approach, does X become big enough to
           | achieve history-book-level harm? Like making [effective
           | representative democracy, pandemic response, ecologic
           | collapse mitigation] impossible.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | > Personally I don't think the root problem is YouTube --
           | rather, it's your parents' confirmation bias. They want to
           | believe these things.
           | 
           | The thing is, most people, including likely you and me, have
           | _some_ defect. Some aspect of constructing a  "good"
           | society[1] is setting up systems to counter the effect of
           | these defects. If you have a system that _fosters_ a person
           | 's defects, it is fair to be critical of it.
           | 
           | Or put a simpler way: It's as fair to criticize the Youtube
           | algorithm as it is to criticize a newspaper that only prints
           | positive news about white people and negative news about non-
           | whites. Sure - any given reader can choose which newspaper
           | he/she will read, and the root cause is the reader's bias,
           | but I think most would agree it's a problematic newspaper
           | that is making a bad problem worse.
           | 
           | [1] Whatever that means.
        
             | foolinaround wrote:
             | but in your analogy, there is both positive and negative
             | news about white and non-white people.
             | 
             | the reader just goes to the sections for positive news
             | about white people and negative news about non-whites. He
             | tears up the rest.
             | 
             | --
             | 
             | Is it not like one goes to breakfast at his local diner,
             | and every day, eats a plateful of bacon. Should the server
             | knowing his patterns take away his bacon?
        
         | dr_dshiv wrote:
         | You have my sympathy. I have a similar if less extreme
         | experience. For me, it happened when my mother moved to
         | Florida.
        
       | jeffwask wrote:
       | I hate how it has now started slipping Hollywood movies into my
       | recommendation feed. All of a sudden i'm seeing the credits on a
       | 2 hour movie after watching a 15 minute UrbanX video. NO YOUTUBE,
       | BAD. If I wanted to watch shitty movies I wouldn't be on YouTube.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | foofoo4u wrote:
         | In general I hate how YouTube is now filled with videos from
         | high production studios. And most of these aren't even full-
         | length episodes, but rather ~2 minute excerpts. I miss the old
         | YouTube when most content was produced by individuals.
        
           | wincy wrote:
           | I've started getting sub-1minute videos popping up constantly
           | on YouTube. If I wanted that I'd use Tiktok (I don't). On
           | mobile you can hide a video but it doesn't prompt you to stop
           | the channel entirely. So I just keep getting these dumb
           | recommendations.
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | > I miss the old YouTube when most content was produced by
           | individuals.
           | 
           | "Old YouTube" was mostly full Simpsons episodes before they
           | got taken down
        
             | smegger001 wrote:
             | >> I miss the old YouTube when most content was produced by
             | individuals.
             | 
             | >"Old YouTube" was mostly full Simpsons episodes before
             | they got taken down
             | 
             | I'm not sure I see the problem there.
        
       | skytreader wrote:
       | For a less serious take, I've been playing a game with Youtube's
       | recommendation system that I want to share. It works like the
       | Wikipedia link game[1][2] but more stochastic, I'd like to think.
       | To play the game:
       | 
       | 1. Have a specific video in mind. It mostly comes to me from
       | memory of recommendations past. For example, "Hey I remember
       | Crash Course Film History had an episode on _2001: A Space
       | Odyssey_. "
       | 
       | 2. Now the fun part: _NEVER_ use search to find the video
       | (external search engines too!) directly _or indirectly_. Rather
       | try to bias the recommendation algorithm until it recommends that
       | video to you again. You can only try to influence the algorithm
       | by watching other _recommended_ videos, liking, or disliking.
       | Recommendations come from the homepage or from the sidebar when
       | you watch other videos; this means you can 't start your search
       | by visiting their channel
       | 
       | In this example, maybe I'll try watching more content from Crash
       | Course. I've been watching STEM Crash Course lately so maybe I'll
       | click on the first Crash Course Humanities content that gets
       | recommended. To bias towards movies maybe I'll watch myself some
       | Nerdwriter. Again, note that searching for Crash Course
       | Humanities content is considered cheating. It has to be
       | recommended to you.
       | 
       | It's a race against yourself to get to the video you want.
       | 
       | Obviously, I don't have anything better to do with my time ;).
       | Once I was looking for a video I was extremely sure Tom Scott
       | made. After what's basically a nonsequential brute force search
       | through his channel (again, only through recommendations!), I
       | still couldn't find it. I gave up but I still didn't search,
       | rather I emailed Tom. He replied only to say he's never made such
       | video. This is when I used search; it turned out to be from Vox.
       | 
       | I just wanted to "stick it to Google": if they are going to
       | profile me and my interests, I won't make it too easy. With this
       | game, I'm hoping my interests appear broader than they are to
       | Google.
       | 
       | Have fun.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.thewikigame.com/
       | 
       | [2] https://degreesofwikipedia.com/
        
       | handelaar wrote:
       | That's a lot of text just to bury the question "why does Youtube
       | never ever stop shoving literal Nazis onto my front page all the
       | time?" a thousand words down and then... not answer it.
        
         | Applejinx wrote:
         | They pay to be seen. Several different entities have a reason
         | to fund that.
        
       | bobcostas55 wrote:
       | The Orwellian language in this piece is absolutely ridiculous.
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | This article started out talking about what good signals are to
       | drive a recommendation algo, but it ended up concluding with all
       | the different ways YouTube goes against those signals to censor
       | videos or otherwise manually tune your feed instead.
       | 
       | The meaning of "recommendation" seems to have shifted from "what
       | we think you want" to "what we want for you."
       | 
       | It's not a wrong use of the word, just different from what you
       | might expect.
        
         | seneca wrote:
         | > The meaning of "recommendation" seems to have shifted from
         | "what we think you want" to "what we want for you."
         | 
         | I think this is a pretty fantastic summary of what has gone
         | wrong with a lot of big tech. Facebook, Twitter, youtube,
         | Google search, iOS, Android, and Windows all have moved toward
         | taking away user control and trying to move you toward more of
         | what they want you to want. If it's not recommendations, it's
         | forced updates, device scanning, or "influencers".
         | 
         | We badly need some of that disruption these same companies used
         | to preach about. The current cohort is becoming ossified and
         | user hostile, just like the companies they replaced.
        
       | jerrygoyal wrote:
       | is nobody going to talk about the trending tab? It's full of
       | cringe atleast in India region. they seriously need to work on
       | it.
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | Recommendation on YouTube is somewhat good but search sucks. When
       | you search for something it throws at you random garbage on top
       | of the thing you are actually looking for, think AltaVista vs
       | Google yes Google you own the YouTube. There is no ability to
       | search for videos in playlists and there is no ability to search
       | videos' comments.
       | 
       | Also they say >borderline content--that is content that comes
       | close to, but doesn't quite violate our Community Guidelines.
       | 
       | TOS can not treat anything as "borderline"; borderline is akin to
       | robbing a bank and then telling a judge your crime was
       | "borderline" because you were out of money and you needed to get
       | your financial situation straight by robbing a bank. My point is
       | TOS and Law are binary either something is allowed or forbidden
       | there is no middle ground.
        
         | jedimastert wrote:
         | > TOS can not treat anything as "borderline"
         | 
         | They addressed this, I think, later in the article
         | 
         | > With all that, why don't we simply remove borderline content?
         | Misinformation tends to shift and evolve rapidly, and unlike
         | areas like terrorism or child safety, often lacks a clear
         | consensus. Also, misinformation can vary depending on personal
         | perspective and background. We recognize that sometimes, this
         | means leaving up controversial or even offensive content. So we
         | continue to heavily focus on building responsible
         | recommendations and take meaningful steps to prevent our system
         | from widely recommending this content.
         | 
         | So much, in terms of moderation, what is acceptable, etc. is a
         | constantly moving target. Even if there is an exactly right
         | answer today, it might become an important conversation to have
         | tomorrow
        
       | CoryAlexMartin wrote:
       | > With all that, why don't we simply remove borderline content?
       | Misinformation tends to shift and evolve rapidly, and unlike
       | areas like terrorism or child safety, often lacks a clear
       | consensus. Also, misinformation can vary depending on personal
       | perspective and background.
       | 
       | This is a weird way to say "ideas that we suppress for being
       | misinformation are sometimes actually true."
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | 'sometimes true depending on who's watching, what their
         | cultural background is, and whether or not the idea presented
         | is proved with future research'.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | I don't get this one. How can something be true for only some
           | people?
           | 
           | If you say "people shower every day on average" then that
           | might be true in hot sweaty climates more than in temperate
           | ones where people might shower every other day instead, but
           | that's not really what's meant with misinformation. So I'm
           | not understanding how the things that one means when talking
           | about misinformation -- e.g. that lemon juice cures cancer or
           | that homeopathic medicine works better than placebo pills,
           | those kinds of things is what we're talking about right?
           | Isn't that universally false (or true, if something is not
           | actually misinformation but only labeled as such because
           | people don't like the facts)?
        
         | jedimastert wrote:
         | I mean, context really is important. "Ivermectin won a Nobel
         | prize" is an objectively true fact, but depending on who you
         | are that either means basically nothing or go eat horse de-
         | wormer
        
       | jedimastert wrote:
       | Super interesting somewhat buried link on the guidelines for
       | evaluators. I just assumed they were private so I never bothered
       | to look them up; I wonder how easy they were to find before today
       | 
       | https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/guidelines.raterh...
        
       | spywaregorilla wrote:
       | I find it pretty decent if you tell it you don't like certain
       | videos. But it fails to identify obvious, literal sequels to your
       | current video. And if you don't trim it, it will surely feed you
       | clickbait garbage.
       | 
       | On some level people love to click on things they expect to hate
       | and downvote it. I suspect that increases the odds of showing
       | them similar content, vs. say, spotify which explicitly says
       | "sorry we will try to avoid things like this". Youtube should
       | make it clear which strategy they're doing, and they should do
       | the latter.
        
       | htrp wrote:
       | > This means each borderline video watched is a lost opportunity
       | to monetize, leading to real lost revenue to YouTube.
       | 
       | The only thing you need to read from that post
        
       | bryanthompson wrote:
       | The whole system is infuriating. I stay pretty well in one lane
       | for what I want to watch, and if I _accidentally_ click on ONE
       | music video, the whole feed is wrecked for months.
        
       | mef51 wrote:
       | If you think of the Youtube recommendation system as a person,
       | you would immediately understand how creepily this person is
       | behaving by trying way too hard to get what it wants from you (ad
       | clicks) under the guise of caring about you or your interests.
       | 
       | Just because I click on a video and watch it entirely doesn't
       | mean I want to see more like it, and it doesn't mean it was
       | healthy for me to watch, it could have just been a distraction.
       | But now this system will latch on to my need for distraction and
       | keep nagging me with stuff in the long term that is ultimately
       | harmful to me.
       | 
       | I don't believe recommendation systems like this can ever really
       | understand people well enough where a person can walk away and
       | feel healthy about it. But they are great at generating money and
       | that is why they exist. I can see and appreciate the amount of
       | effort that is trying to make these systems better but they are
       | fundamentally flawed and limited.
        
       | dilap wrote:
       | I've found some good stuff from YouTube recommendations, but the
       | reccs are mostly pretty dumb -- tons of repeats, tons of "hey,
       | here's something EXACTLY LIKE what you just watched." It's
       | nowhere close to as good as the recommendations for TikTok (which
       | seem to read your mind _and_ your subconscious). Would love to
       | see TikTok make a YouTube competitor.
        
         | DiggyJohnson wrote:
         | Genuinely curious, would you actually want that product to
         | exist?
         | 
         | I'm at a point where I don't want _better_ recommendations to
         | tell me what to think. I 'm already having enough of a
         | challenge keeping my focus with the status quo.
        
           | spiderice wrote:
           | I would. Not because I necessarily even want to use it. But
           | at this point, I consider any competition to Youtube to be a
           | good thing. It's been over a decade without Youtube having a
           | single viable alternative, and I want that to end.
        
           | dilap wrote:
           | I feel you on the focus challenge -- my heroin is twitter,
           | which I struggle to not read compulsively. (Right now I'm in
           | a "delete my account" phase, but I know I'll go back.)
           | 
           | But for whatever reason, YouTube and TikTok are both very
           | easy for me to consume in small amounts, deliberately.
           | 
           | Perhaps the thing I love most on YouTube is music. I've
           | discovered so much great stuff there. But I'm sure there's
           | more, if I only knew about it!
           | 
           | Beyond music, tons of other weird and/or life-enriching
           | stuffL An old documentary on spanish gypsies. How to make an
           | omlette. Programming live streams. Surreal russian war
           | movies. Old Hunter Thompson interviews. Etc. etc. etc.
           | 
           | But mostly the new stuff I find these days doesn't come from
           | YouTube reccs (which tend to just repeat the same things over
           | and over, or show mainstream fluff, more akin to advertising
           | than a personalized recommendation), but off-site sources,
           | like blogs or twitter links. Which is a shame!
           | 
           | (Sort of tangentially, if I had to restart civilization from
           | scratch and got to pick _one_ single source of information to
           | use, I 'd pick YouTube for sure. I just wish Google were a
           | better steward of that rather remarkable collection. (They
           | really seem to be on a vendetta against the "You" part of
           | YouTube...))
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | schleck8 wrote:
       | How did Google get the .youtube and .google TLDs?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > How did Google get the .youtube and .google TLDs while barely
         | using them?
         | 
         | They got it by paying money and meeting the other new-gTLD
         | compliance requirements during the new gTLD gold rush.
         | 
         | None of those requirements involved current use or a forward
         | commitment to heavy use, so the "while barely using it" is
         | irrelevant.
        
         | schoen wrote:
         | https://icannwiki.org/.youtube
         | 
         | https://icannwiki.org/Brand_TLD
         | 
         | It's pretty strange to me that ICANN allowed the "brand TLD"
         | concept.
         | 
         | I remember being impressed that the Aga Khan has his own TLD
         | under this program:
         | 
         | https://icannwiki.org/.agakhan
        
       | mjsweet wrote:
       | I fell into a massive YouTube recommendation vortex two 1/2 years
       | ago when my barista basically insisted I take all his Cafe's
       | coffee grounds home and compost them. I had no idea how to
       | compost (he was sick of telling customers it was going into
       | landfill. every. single. day). I now have over 20kg's of worms
       | spread over 30+ worm bins and I'm taking organic residue from all
       | over the district and turning it into valuable soil amendments. I
       | never thought 5 years ago I would now be on the cusp of leaving
       | digital marketing and going into manufacturing soil amendments.
       | Profoundly life changing experience.
        
       | swalsh wrote:
       | The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this
       | summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the
       | end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and
       | all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my
       | garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without
       | the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise
       | more, so I started running. Then I googled how to improve, and
       | soon I'm purchasing gear, and trying supplements. The amount of
       | economic activity driven directly from Youtube has to be HUGE.
        
         | sigmar wrote:
         | The same thing happened to me with plants. I knew nothing about
         | plants last year. Now I tell people I was radicalized by
         | youtube into a house plant and pepper plant obsession.
        
         | isk517 wrote:
         | Running is a hobby that feels like it should be cheap but gets
         | surprisingly expensive. Two quick pieces of advice to save you
         | from a bit of hurt. 1. Track your miles, shoes need to be
         | replaced every 300-500 and 2. Go get a foot orthotic and gait
         | assessment done. Wearing the right type of shoes and finding
         | out if you require orthotics is a easy way to prevent injuries
         | that won't pop up for another year or two down the line.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I know quite a few casual runners (5K to 10K) and been
           | running for over 15 years myself. Other than a $120 pair of
           | running shoes every year or two, what is the expense? Maybe
           | the water backpack things if you are into extreme running?
           | 
           | It is not even a separate expense for me, as I just use my
           | running shoes as my regular shoes. Also, maybe it is my gait
           | or my lack of weight, but I estimate my shoes last 1k miles.
        
             | isk517 wrote:
             | I suppose things aren't as expensive if you are a casual
             | but I'm still surprised you can get 1k out of a pair of
             | shoes. My mother also runs and is significantly lighter
             | than myself and she gets shin splints if she doesn't change
             | runners out at 500 miles. My current system is to run a
             | pair of shoes for about 350 - 450 miles then downgrade them
             | to a pair of walking shoes in till they fall apart.
             | 
             | I started running fairly casually but eventually started
             | doing marathons. I run about 110 miles a month so I'm
             | switching out shoes every 3 months. My feet suck so I'm
             | also replacing a pair of orthotics every 2 years. I got a
             | full set of summer and winter running gear and enough of
             | each to last me a week. I also have a hydration vest, a GPS
             | watch (not necessary but very useful), a set of Aftershokz
             | bone conductive headphones so that I can listen to music
             | while maintaining situational awareness, a pair of good
             | sunglasses specifically for running (I sweat a lot and
             | would not want to ware the same pair for everyday use), I
             | have a few soft flasks that go in my hydration vest, and
             | I've had to invest in a pretty decent treadmill to run on
             | during the worst parts of winter.
             | 
             | Not everything I've listed is 100% necessary but as with
             | most hobbies it finds ways to become expensive the more
             | dedicated you are to it.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Yes, that sounds like it would add up! I feel like if I
               | would dissuade myself from going on a run if I had to get
               | all that stuff ready. Even putting sunscreen on sometimes
               | feels like a bummer.
        
         | beckman466 wrote:
         | What makes you share such an unrelated anecdotal story here?
         | 
         | Seriously? Is it _' telling 'cute' stories to distract from the
         | black box youtube algorithm that creates white
         | supremacists'_-time? It comes across as incredibly
         | unempathetic, gaslighty and dismissive, posting on a thread
         | that is discussing an important societal problem, especially
         | using the word 'dangerous' in the sarcastic way in which you
         | used it here.
         | 
         | Also the reader has to to replace YouTube's cryptic _'
         | borderline'_ label in this article with the word _' white
         | supremacist'_ and/or _' alt-right'_ to get the real picture.
        
         | 5faulker wrote:
         | It's a consumption-driven economy, where those who are
         | economically useless are driven out of the game.
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | this is the best one-liner here all week +++
           | 
           | me: art, philosophy, religion, culture -- avidly
           | 
           | me on youTube: Rizin/UFC re-runs, live concerts of
           | commercially successful bands, D&D themed games
        
         | marderfarker2 wrote:
         | Huh, not YouTube but the companies paying content creators to
         | make videos featuring their product.
        
         | jeffwask wrote:
         | It's sad because I remember being able to find new and
         | interesting creators passively. Now the main page is all
         | corporate BS and the algorithm locks you in. We played a bit of
         | WOW Classic last year and all of a sudden I was just flooded
         | with Asmongold videos and videos of people clipping and
         | replaying Asmongold. It took a day of "never show this again"
         | to make it stop.
        
           | steveklabnik wrote:
           | As someone who had a bit of a YouTube hobby and is trying to
           | get back into it, I've generally found that the algorithm
           | brings me a larger audience than I would have otherwise. I've
           | published three videos in the last 28 days, and my analytics
           | says I've gotten 5200 views across all my content in that
           | time. I have about a hundred subscribers. Search is still
           | king, but 15% of those views have come from suggested. I've
           | got a 7.8% CTR so it's suggesting it to quite a few people.
        
             | cma wrote:
             | Like Facebook now does for "boosting" post shares, I wonder
             | when the YT algorithm will start incorporating pay to win
             | mechanics.
        
               | steveklabnik wrote:
               | It seems like YouTube has realized that winner-takes-all
               | is bad for the health of the platform, and is trying to
               | grow smaller creators. I suspect they won't do this,
               | because they realize that it ultimately strangles growth.
               | Mr. Beast (for example) is already spending about
               | $4MM/month on making videos; if they allowed this kind of
               | stuff, well... not many people could compete.
               | 
               | We'll see though!
        
               | cma wrote:
               | After I made the post I remembered they already do it.
               | Brands can pay to sponsor existing videos that put them
               | in a good light. These recomendations do have an [Ad]
               | tag, but the extra views and impressions are allow to
               | feed into the algorithm which then doesn't have to
               | maintain the [Ad] tag going forward:
               | 
               | https://support.google.com/google-
               | ads/thread/10007177/using-...
        
           | kenjackson wrote:
           | What corporate stuff do you have on your main page? Mine is
           | all pretty much filled with content that matches what I
           | watch.
        
             | yummypaint wrote:
             | This seems pretty tautological. What you watch will reflect
             | your reccomendations because there is a causal relationship
             | there, unless you never use youtube for discovery. I
             | alledge that what people spend time watching is more
             | heavily shaped by reccomendations than they are aware of.
        
               | srcreigh wrote:
               | Personal experience sharing time. I use YouTube heavily,
               | and even pay for YT Premium.
               | 
               | The other day a little modal appeared on the side of
               | youtube.com desktop saying something like, "Curious for
               | new stuff? Explore content that isn't what you usually
               | watch."
               | 
               | It ended up being sorta like an alternate reality. It was
               | all the topics I usually watch, but with different
               | channels I don't normally see at all. In other words, it
               | was as if all the channels I normally watch don't exist,
               | what else would exist to fill the void.
        
               | bigmattystyles wrote:
               | YouTube premium is the best streaming service. There's so
               | much content of high quality content that's relatively
               | niche. I recently stumbled on SummoningSalt's videos
               | about speed runners and I can't imagine any other medium
               | that would create incentives for that type of content. Of
               | course you don't need premium, but no ads is great! I've
               | gone on to support people on patreon from YouTube, from
               | cgp grey to stuffmadehere. I can't imagine finding that
               | kind of content on Hulu, Netflix, et al. It's possible
               | there are YouTube alternatives as I'm quite old compared
               | to a teenager.
        
               | kenjackson wrote:
               | What they watch is shaped by recommendations, but I think
               | most are also aware of it. For example, when I want to
               | watch something about basketball I typically go to
               | YouTube and there are recommendations of what to watch.
               | There are probably millions of basketball videos, but
               | YouTube is going to show me a handful based on previous
               | videos I've watched and liked. I'm not surprised to see
               | certain content creators more than others. But at the
               | same time if they did a poor job of recommendation (like
               | Spotify) then I'd probably just go and search through
               | channels that I know I like.
        
               | dkarl wrote:
               | When you depart from your usual intake, some departures
               | are a lot more powerful than others. Sometimes you watch
               | something new and YouTube spends days pushing similar
               | stuff into your face. Other times you watch something new
               | and only see one or two relevant recommendations mixed
               | into your usual fare. My hypothesis is that YouTube knows
               | that particular topics and particular content are
               | associated with usage patterns that make money for them,
               | and the algorithm is alert to any possibility of pushing
               | users into those patterns.
        
               | kroltan wrote:
               | I'm not who you're replying to, but at least for me, I've
               | found a way of keeping the recommendations on check.
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/XIRW4U2.jpeg
               | 
               | When opening videos that are sent to me by others, I
               | always use a private window, so my main account is pretty
               | low "variance".
               | 
               | When I find a creator I like, I do a "fake binge", by
               | queuing all their recent videos and some old ones too and
               | playing them unattended.
               | 
               | I also try to minimize my use of the recommendation
               | sidebar, since it usually shows content related to the
               | current video rather than the more general
               | recommendations of the home page.
               | 
               | When something foreign sneaks its way to my home page, I
               | immediately click "not interested", paying attention to
               | not hover the thumbnail.
               | 
               | Overall, Youtube has got me trained pretty well, but at
               | least I get some nice recommendations out of it, so much
               | so in fact that over half the recommendations I get are
               | usually videos I have already watched (even if Youtube
               | thinks I haven't yet for whatever reason).
        
             | jeffwask wrote:
             | I guess what they call it now is the Explore page which is
             | all Ellen and Tonight Show clips.
        
               | kyle-rb wrote:
               | The Explore page seems to be globally-curated stuff not
               | based on personal taste, so it seems like the opposite of
               | recommended.
               | 
               | And is that the main page for you? When I open the
               | website or the Android app I get "Home". "Explore" is a
               | separate tab. "Home" is pretty much filled with
               | recommendations from channels I've watched recently, no
               | corporate stuff (excluding ads).
               | 
               | I do see the issue of recommendations being flooded with
               | one topic you've watched recently, but I generally don't
               | have too much of a problem with it. When the
               | recommendations stop being relevant/interesting to me, I
               | tend to shut off YouTube.
        
             | fsckboy wrote:
             | > Mine is all pretty much filled with content that matches
             | what I watch.
             | 
             | it should know that I don't want to watch the same things
             | every day over and over relentlessly. There's hardly
             | anything (by topic) I want to watch again the next day,
             | except some news and political commentary which I do watch
             | and it NEVER offers me.
        
           | grumbel wrote:
           | That's why I started using multiple accounts, makes it a lot
           | easier to keep the algorithm on topic and not get side
           | tracked just because you searched for a song or game once.
           | 
           | In the end the core problem with the recommendation system is
           | simply that there is only one list of recommendations, which
           | makes it damn near impossible to switch to a different topic
           | unless you start account hopping. The new topic-bar helps a
           | little, but still offers no way to get rid of an unwanted
           | topic completely.
        
             | jeffwask wrote:
             | I did this till I started paying for premium then it
             | sucked.
        
               | FalconSensei wrote:
               | If you use different channels, premium should work for
               | all, right?
        
               | Uupis wrote:
               | I use the family plan for multiple accounts. Might not
               | fit if you actually use it as a _family_ plan, but it 's
               | working out for me so far.
        
             | quakeguy wrote:
             | ,,Using multiple accounts" ,,Makes it easier" That may work
             | indeed, but i wouldnt call it easy in any way, or
             | convenient. Instead try to subscribe to as many channels
             | you find interesting as possible. Thats what worked for me
             | in the end getting rid of the clutter that is suggested.
        
           | DocEasyE wrote:
           | check yolo comics on youtube, they are korean but have
           | subtitles and make amazing prank videos not like US pranks
        
           | stevofolife wrote:
           | You started playing WoW Classic and it was able to recommend
           | WoW-related videos. It did its job. What else do you expect
           | from a recommendation system? Predict what you're interested
           | next or what you're going to do tomorrow? That's not
           | recommendation, that's mass surveillance and psychological
           | manipulation.
           | 
           | But on a useful note, maybe YouTube needs to provide a
           | function to see a list of random videos that are unexplored
           | or new.
        
             | dgritsko wrote:
             | > What else do you expect from a recommendation system?
             | Predict what you're interested next or what you're going to
             | do tomorrow?
             | 
             | Actually, I think they kind of are trying to do this (in a
             | sense), if you read the article:
             | 
             | > Our system then compares your viewing habits with those
             | that are similar to you and uses that information to
             | suggest other content you may want to watch. So if you like
             | tennis videos and our system notices that others who like
             | the same tennis videos as you also enjoy jazz videos, you
             | may be recommended jazz videos, even if you've never
             | watched a single one before.
        
               | brendoelfrendo wrote:
               | This is probably how both I and many of my friends who
               | share interests managed to fall down the same city
               | planning YouTube rabbit hole this summer.
        
           | gremloni wrote:
           | This is not my experience at all. Everything on my page is
           | from independent creators.
        
           | Asmod4n wrote:
           | I'm hitting never show this again on one type of content all
           | the time. There are days where my feed consists of like 33%
           | of that stuff and it happens all the time. I'm at the point
           | where it only recommends me my subscribed channels or the
           | stuff I tell it not to show at all some days too. It's so
           | frustrating.
        
             | dkarl wrote:
             | I think there are some intersections of interest that make
             | the algorithm hypothesize that you're a certain kind of
             | person. Like if you watch a lot of strength training
             | content, and then you watch one lecture on Heidegger,
             | YouTube is like, oh, we finally figured this guy out, he's
             | a white supremacist or at the very least a gun nut. But if
             | I watch a video about cupcakes, I'll only get a few
             | suggestions about baking, not any associated interests,
             | because cupcakes don't combine with any of my other
             | interests to trigger a stereotype.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | vl wrote:
         | All it means that it is working as intended. Few years ago YT
         | switched to life-time-value optimization. But when you get it
         | to the logical end, ideal consumer for Google is a healthy
         | person with disposable income that spends all of it.
         | 
         | Since Google/YT essentially are shaping you thoughts and
         | behaviours, logical optimization for them is to shape you to be
         | a working sportsman that spends all disposable income on
         | services, experiences and goods bought online.
        
         | robbomacrae wrote:
         | YouTube's recommendation system (and googles search engine if
         | you see the comments in the other post today
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28550764) somehow escapes
         | the flak that other systems, such as Facebook news & posts, get
         | but I find it's equally damaging to society.
         | 
         | There seems to exist a downward spiral where content that is
         | prioritized to be attention grabbing over all else gets the
         | most clicks and then drives more content to focus on this. The
         | quality of the content itself seems to be increasingly
         | inconsequential and has fallen off a cliff in the face of click
         | spam.
         | 
         | Anecdotal evidence 1: I used to watch youtube videos for
         | investment ideas and now all of these streamers pump out the
         | same low quality, not very researched content with their face
         | plastered on top with a shocked look on their mug.
         | 
         | Anecdotal evidence 2: My son was shown youtube by one of our
         | nannies (despite my rules on no youtube) and has since become
         | semi-addicted to the most brain dead content of toys being made
         | into knock offs of the reasonable shows he used to watch or
         | some adult man child being a weird clown in public.
         | 
         | Idiocracy will be due to memes as much as genes.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | Kara Swisher of _The New York Times_ (previously ReCode) has
           | been absolutely biting in her criticisms of Google generally,
           | Youtube specifically, and other current tech monopolies.
           | 
           | Directly to Susan Wojcicki's face in a live public interview:
           | https://youtube.com/watch?v=zKrQzJgFWdw
           | 
           | (Starting about 1:50 into the interview.)
           | 
           | Also numerous times in her column and podcast (I can chase
           | those down if requested, though they should be prominent).
           | 
           | See "Algorithms Won't Fix What's Wrong With YouTube"
           | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/opinion/youtube-
           | algorithm... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184282)
        
         | ahoka wrote:
         | Because why would you do things for free, when you can pay for
         | them?
        
         | dsclough wrote:
         | I'd recommend anyone looking to take better control of their
         | habits in this regard to install the DF Youtube extension. Turn
         | it off when you want to tumble down rabbitholes and keep it on
         | at all other times. Really makes a difference in how youtube
         | usage works over time.
         | 
         | On a related note it would be interesting if someone has made
         | some "rabbithole resolving" software - I've noticed that these
         | things terminate in extremely similar ways for most people, and
         | have had a number of conversations laughing with others about
         | how we've gone down the exact same content route. Write some
         | code to find the bottom for us and save all the headache (fun)!
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | I'm wondering what you mean by "dangerous" and what level of
         | irony you're at. :-)
        
         | AdrianB1 wrote:
         | I got in the same situation with videos on otters (popular in
         | South Korea, it seems) by watching accidentally one in the
         | feed, but the music recommendations are either missing or
         | missing my preferences, so the system does not really work for
         | me.
        
         | jumpkick wrote:
         | "Gear" is slang for steroids so I assume this is the joke,
         | right? :p
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | Read it as "video on preppers" and everything still worked for
         | the most part, but you didn't mention freeze dried food or
         | holsters so figured I read something wrong.
        
           | a1369209993 wrote:
           | Same here, though I caught on at "multiple different
           | varieties [of preppers?] growing" (WTF?).
        
       | ahurmazda wrote:
       | Personally, I carefully guard my youtube feed (same as twitter).
       | I vigorously cull (`dont recommend/not interested`) dull videos
       | whenever they pop up. Once a month, I will go over my history and
       | remove items that I didn't particularly care for in retrospect.
       | Youtube's recommendation has gotten really useful for me
       | overtime. It keeps my curiosity well-satisfied.
        
       | foolinaround wrote:
       | 'low quality' content is ostensibly demoted by this system, which
       | was built on the biases of the developers themselves.
       | 
       | At the very least, YT should recognize that this metric is quite
       | subjective, and given the vast scale of information out there,
       | they simply cannot be the experts.
       | 
       | Sometimes I just dont want any magic, just give it to me.
       | 
       | If I like seeing 'flat earth' videos, then recommend the next
       | best 'flat earth' video, just keep it simple?
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | You youtube algo keeps showing me fox news. I have not once
       | clicked but it keeps showing me them.
       | 
       | Also, what is the deal with mrbeast and other video always being
       | on default? Did they pay for that exposure or what.
        
         | spiderice wrote:
         | > Did they pay for that exposure or what
         | 
         | Kind of. Mr. Beast videos make Youtube tons of money. Shouldn't
         | be a surprise that Youtube pushes them harder than videos that
         | don't make a ton of money.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | Chicken, egg. I am sure finance videos with super expensive
           | credit card ads would make more money for YouTube
        
       | timeimp wrote:
       | Oh cool. Their algorithm is why I'm now a big fan of Beluga.
       | 
       | Thanks Algorithm(tm)
        
       | ufo wrote:
       | This blog post doesn't seem yo answer the hard questions, such as
       | why recommend Plastic Love by Mariya Takeuchi on every video.
        
       | id5j1ynz wrote:
       | > For my oldest daughter, it was finding laughter and community
       | with the Vlogbrothers. And for my oldest son, recommendations
       | brought about a better understanding of linear algebra through
       | animated explainers by 3Blue1Brown--with breaks to watch KSI
       | videos.
       | 
       | My first thought reading this was about reinforcing a stereotype
       | as the son learning hard sciences and the daughter watching fun
       | shows about people things.
       | 
       | Did anyone else notice or think about that that?
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | It is reinforcing a stereotype.
         | 
         | But it is also telling his reality. It wouldn't be honest for
         | him to say his daughter watches 3Blue1Brown if she doesn't,
         | would it?
        
         | kikokikokiko wrote:
         | Or maybe it's just what HAPPENS in real life when you have a
         | son and a daughter, and it's effects can be seem on a societal
         | level through, for instance, the number of male vs female hard
         | science college applicants for instance. Different genders have
         | different interests on AVERAGE. The fact that nature doesn't
         | conform to a idealized view of an equal world does not make it
         | "wrong".
        
           | smegger001 wrote:
           | equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity. you are never
           | going to get the first because psychology and biology you can
           | only provide for the second.
        
         | exolymph wrote:
         | Stereotypes don't come from nowhere. Example:
         | https://www.bates.edu/news/2010/12/21/chimp-doll-play/
        
           | foofoo4u wrote:
           | Here's an even better resource backed by an extensive body of
           | research: https://bigthink.com/the-present/gender-
           | stereotyped-toys/, which is based on
           | https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-01989-8
        
         | mpalmer wrote:
         | Seems more like it's reinforcing what the kids themselves
         | already choose to watch.
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | Sometimes, I want to watch a random video that was recommended,
       | but I get anxious about clicking on it and start getting
       | recommendations for that video's theme forever and ever.
       | 
       | Once, I've clicked on a video about Tetris' World Championship
       | Finals (I was curious!), and I was plagued with Tetris
       | recommendations for some months.
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | I guess that means you've learned to care a lot about YouTube's
         | recommendations? Another approach is to ignore them.
        
           | paganel wrote:
           | That's what I personally do, I treat the side-bar as
           | basically an ad-bar and my peripheral view just ignores it.
           | 
           | It wasn't always like this, about 7-8 years ago I used to
           | discover lots of interesting music after watching some indie
           | music video, but not anymore, at some point their algorithm
           | just broke (it looks like it's searching for a local maximum
           | and once it finds it it gets stuck in there, as someone else
           | mentioned above).
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | > I treat the side-bar as basically an ad-bar and my
             | peripheral view just ignores it.
             | 
             | I just now realized that I do this too. So much that I've
             | never actually paid any attention to the contents of the
             | sidebar at all. My brain just automatically filters it out.
        
       | Pxtl wrote:
       | I assume the reason people find the YouTube's recommendation
       | system less daring about jumping into very different content is a
       | certain amount of caution described at the end of the article.
       | 
       | Basically, when you've accidentally created a white nationalist
       | movement, you tend to ratchet back your ambitions.
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | >Recommendations drive a significant amount of the overall
       | viewership on YouTube, even more than channel subscriptions or
       | search.
       | 
       | Chicken/egg. Above is true is because they flood the sidebar with
       | algorithmic recos instead of your subscriptions, and have tuned
       | their notifications to not give you as many, even if you are
       | subscribed and even if you click the notification bell.
        
       | luhego wrote:
       | I personally like the Youtube recommendation system when
       | listening to music. I was able to find and listen songs that
       | match my taste.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mupuff1234 wrote:
       | Just please give me some options!
       | 
       | I want to be able to select exploration/discovery vs sticking
       | with familiar grounds.
       | 
       | It boggles my mind that there are zero explicit user settings and
       | the only option is somehow game the recommendation system.
        
       | beckman466 wrote:
       | This is all horseshit. YouTube should be a utility,
       | democratically owned and governed. When are we going to stop
       | pretending this profit-seeking ad platform isn't dangerous, and
       | start hosting videos according to other metrics than
       | 'monetizability' instead.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Why don't they let me tell them the interests that they are
       | trying to infer? I'd be really happy to review sets of
       | recommendations and indicate the kind of videos i like and the
       | kind i don't.
        
         | kikokikokiko wrote:
         | Because this way YOU would have the power to decide what you
         | see, and why, I ask, would the biggest corporation in the world
         | not use this power themselves? They can literally change minds
         | and public opinion using it. Imagine the implications in terms
         | of public police, elections, even the general zeitgeist of the
         | population about the company itself. Google will NEVER allow
         | it's users to decide for themselves what they want to see.
        
           | foofoo4u wrote:
           | The latest Facebook [leaks](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-
           | facebook-files-11631713039) by the WSJ has made it clear that
           | these large social platforms have the intent and actively do
           | shape public opinion. YouTube is no different. It's clear
           | that they have political/ideological leanings and intend to
           | use the platform to bend the world to their views.
        
         | rhizome wrote:
         | Except for the meager controls they already give you, the data
         | flows only one way: from their db of history to your screen.
         | You fencing off your interests would complicate this
         | immeasurably. I would guess that it would raise the same
         | problem that Google Search found with its domain blacklist
         | feature 10+? years ago.
         | 
         | I don't think _personal_ recommendations are a good use of
         | developer effort, I think I 'd be fine if it just showed me
         | videos liked by other people who have liked the same videos I
         | have.
        
         | oehpr wrote:
         | In some vein they kind of do this by letting you like or
         | dislike videos. The problem is almost all of them see this as
         | an opportunity to signal others. Which means that your likes
         | and dislikes are also value judgements, that you may or may not
         | be comfortable making.
         | 
         | They have at least have "not interested" but it's a clunky
         | system.
         | 
         | TikTok is having more luck because they're getting this data by
         | watching WHEN you stop watching a video. Video's automatically
         | play, so the default signal when you swipe past something is
         | "no".
        
           | rhizome wrote:
           | Huh, I'd assume they are all storing start, stop, and skips.
        
       | MMS21 wrote:
       | Why must we click 3 buttons just so the algo doesn't recommend
       | the same video, couldn't they use the like/ dislike system
       | instead, seriously baffled how those buttons aren't factored in
       | at all.
        
       | betwixthewires wrote:
       | > Our recommendation system is built on the simple principle of
       | helping people find the videos they want to watch and that will
       | give them value
       | 
       | Well it doesn't live up to the principle, not even close.
       | 
       | > It's constantly evolving, learning every day from over 80
       | billion pieces of information we call signals.
       | 
       | This is probably why. It's a positive feedback loop mechanism for
       | noise.
       | 
       | Another reason why is probably that it's metric for "give them
       | value" is engagement. Its a dishonest metric, because "gives them
       | value" is less important than "give us value", so even if you
       | found that it doesnt give them value, you've got a perverse
       | incentive to continue doing it and pretending it is in their best
       | interest.
        
       | skizm wrote:
       | When I open youtube, 10 of the 12 videos displayed are ones I've
       | already watched. 1 is a live steam, and one is from a channel I
       | subscribe to. The non-viewed video is recommended to me
       | frequently, but I've never had any interest in clicking on it.
       | What possible "system" could they be using to come up with this
       | being the best 12 videos to show me?
       | 
       | FWIW: I pay for youtube music, which comes with youtube premium
       | included so I don't get ads, but the recommendation system is
       | pretty much useless.
        
       | lordentropy wrote:
       | For me, it seems like youtube's recommendation system mostly gets
       | stuck in the local optimum. Once you watch a video from a
       | particular channel, it'll keep on recommending the videos from
       | the same channel for months. Soon, the recommendation just
       | consists of stuff from the channels that have you already viewed.
       | You rarely see new types of recommendations.
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | Visit in incognito mode and don't sign in. Brand new, fresh
         | youtube, ready to be corrupted again.
        
           | notJim wrote:
           | I've found YouTube's defaults for a lightly-used profile (my
           | work Google account) tend to be like Charlie Kirk/Ben Shapiro
           | owning the libs type garbage.
        
             | Applejinx wrote:
             | Pretty sure that comes and goes.
             | 
             | Comes, because statistically those youtubers are able to
             | latch on to some viewers and this drives engagement. I
             | believe some of that has been pay-to-win stuff, where the
             | youtubers actively advertised and paid directly for
             | engagement. Some of those folks are subsidized by
             | outsiders.
             | 
             | Goes, because YouTube knows from studying its own business
             | that they're capable of driving more engagement by turning
             | people into video-obsessed alt-right Nazis. And if it's too
             | obvious, they'll be called on it, or actively punished as a
             | platform over essentially selling themselves out as a
             | propaganda bullhorn to whoever's able to pay.
             | 
             | That being the alt-right Nazis, and those who fund them.
             | 
             | So it goes back and forth. YouTube doesn't always do this.
             | It does as much of this as it possibly can, but is
             | systemically aware that running with it causes other
             | problems, and dials it back to stay out of trouble (and
             | because some of the people minding the algorithms are not,
             | themselves, alt-right Nazis).
             | 
             | YouTube always wants to find an algorithmic answer for
             | everything, and is not afraid to go meta and look at larger
             | contexts for what they do. It's a google thing. So they
             | want, and don't want, the 'own the libs' paid-for content.
             | It's both simple capitalism, and looking at it on a larger
             | systemic level where there are risks to allowing their ad
             | buys to stoke outright revolution of the country YouTube is
             | based in.
        
               | dkdk8283 wrote:
               | You should stop using the word nazi. It's disrespectful
               | to those who lost loved ones in the holocaust.
               | 
               | Separately there is nothing wrong with people who have
               | opinions different from yours.
        
           | blondin wrote:
           | incognito mode has been the best thing for me lately! it has
           | become my normal browser mode.
        
             | coredog64 wrote:
             | Something we've noticed in our house is that if YT can't
             | figure out who is watching, it just uses the IP address. So
             | I get recommendations based on what my kids watch, and my
             | wife gets random recommendations for stuff based on what I
             | watch.
             | 
             | I've tried the "Don't recommend this" trick, but because
             | the kids are subbed (or otherwise watch it), it still keeps
             | coming back.
        
           | type0 wrote:
           | Incognito mode doesn't make their recommendation system any
           | better, but at least it doesn't get stuck on some stupid
           | subject because their bs algorithm deemed it important to
           | show the same stuff several days in a row.
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | What this does is to tune the recommendations _for that
             | session_ to what you view _for that session_.
             | 
             | If you blindly follow some pratfalls or kittens video,
             | you'll get served up junk. If you happen to be researching
             | some specific topic (how-tos, explainers, academics,
             | technical topics being among my favourites), you'll tend to
             | find you're getting recommendations that follow from that
             | initial topic.
             | 
             | I _still_ treat recommendations quite warily, but at least
             | the ones that come up in such sessions are somewhat better
             | than standard fare.
             | 
             | (I never use YT whilst authenticated / logged in.)
        
         | city41 wrote:
         | I am a huge YouTube addict and get sucked into it a lot. I used
         | to discover all kinds of great channels and really enjoyed it.
         | But lately I have noticed I'm not really finding much and the
         | amount of watching I am doing has gone down a lot. Not sure if
         | they changed the algorithm, or if I've just seen everything I
         | like. I have definitely noticed YouTube is recommending me more
         | clickbaity and mainstream stuff lately.
        
           | sen wrote:
           | Same here, I'm physically disabled and YouTube is the only
           | form of "tv" I watch, so I watch a fair chunk of it
           | (understatement) and I've distinctly noticed a massive drop
           | over the last... I want to say 6 months?... where I've found
           | the recommendations to be totally useless.
           | 
           | Way way more recommendations for stuff I'd never consider
           | watching, recommendations for "big" youtubers (I almost
           | exclusively watch smaller channels based around niche
           | hobbies), stuff like that.
           | 
           | I used to think their recommendation engine was amongst the
           | best of any service I've used, now it's junk.
        
           | throwaway316943 wrote:
           | It's changed, I'm in the same boat. The only new channels
           | I've found that I love are after seeing them promoted outside
           | of YouTube. They clearly intersect with other channels I've
           | subscribed to and watch regularly but were never recommended.
           | I also notice that the recommendation queue for videos on
           | these channels tries to steer you away to larger more
           | mainstream channels that are only tenuously related.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | That mirrors my experience, too.
         | 
         | In fact, I rarely find YouTube's recommendations to be useful.
         | Occasionally, yes, but typically I just get that "more of the
         | same" problem.
         | 
         | However, that may be explained by how I use YouTube. The
         | article is pretty vague and hand-wavy about how the
         | recommendations really work, but it's possible that the fact
         | that I don't drive my YouTube viewing from the recommended
         | videos list makes the video recommendations worse for me.
        
           | laurent92 wrote:
           | I often search for "scientific documentary" or "variety" but
           | the algo clearly doesn't want me to discover new things, and
           | doesn't seem to include those searches to build the
           | suggestions. It keeps repeating the 8 usual channels I'm
           | bored of watching.
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | Bizarrely, I find the opposite. I follow a lot of channels.
         | (More than a thousand, I think.) Among those, some of them I
         | watch every time I see them, while others I hardly ever engage
         | with. But it's always the followed channels I hardly ever
         | engage with that show up in my Recommended feed; while the
         | followed channels that I consistently engage with are nowhere
         | to be seen. (Not just in Recommended; they fail to show up
         | _anywhere_ in all the front-page carousel categories, or any of
         | the sub-category carousel categories, on the TV version of the
         | app, which is the main way I interact with the site.)
         | 
         | Instead, I have to explicitly go into "Subscriptions", and hope
         | that it was posted recently-enough for the channel to show up
         | in the 6-or-so sorted-by-recency channels at the very top,
         | rather than in the alphabetized list (since there are so many
         | channels in that alphabetical list, that finding anything
         | marked as new in that list is basically impractical.)
        
           | emilitt wrote:
           | I found the PocketTube YouTube extension very useful for
           | organizing my subscriptions into categories for easy
           | searching. I had the same issue though I'm not sure I'm past
           | a thousand subs yet - probably only about a hundred in total.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > Instead, I have to explicitly go into "Subscriptions"
           | 
           | This is how I've always used YouTube, and it wasn't that long
           | ago that I learned most people don't do it that way. My usual
           | pattern is to go to the subscriptions tab and scroll down to
           | where the last video I viewed was, then start watching from
           | there up towards the top of the list.
           | 
           | It would be really handy if the YouTube app had some way of
           | making that easier.
        
           | type0 wrote:
           | Their recommendation system is broken. Sometimes
           | recommendations are completely unrelated, sometimes the same
           | videos get recommended in every page for several days. Videos
           | are usually tagged (there are browser extensions to view tags
           | on videos), so recommendation can't even match the tags to
           | view stuff in a similar ballpark. They demonetize and
           | downplay recommendations for decent channels because they are
           | deemed to geeky or are not posting videos frequently enough,
           | I'm not at all pleased how Youtube gets more and more rotten.
        
         | merth wrote:
         | I made a mistake of trying some jazz 5 years ago, now my feed
         | cursed. 99% of suggested videos are not clicked yet youtube
         | insist of showing same stuff for years.
        
           | jimmaswell wrote:
           | Have you tried clicking "not interested" on the videos?
        
         | spike021 wrote:
         | I've noticed this too. Occasionally I'll look up a how-to/DIY
         | thing, watch one video for it, and then all my recommendations
         | (even the ones on the front page) revolve around that topic.
         | But it's not like I have a consistent interest in it, it was a
         | one-off.
        
           | eropple wrote:
           | It's worse when it's decided that yeah, you are interested in
           | that thing. My interests bounce between woodworking, homebrew
           | vehicles, and strategy video games. The YT algorithm gets
           | itself totally snarled when I watch a video from one side of
           | that fence and assumes that that's all I want to see now.
           | Watch a SuperfastMatt vehicle about the Jag he's retrofitting
           | with the guts of a Tesla? _Obviously_ you want seven more
           | videos from his channel that you 've already watched. And I
           | like his channel! Not enough to watch the same seven videos
           | again, though.
           | 
           | It also seems to have some classification issues, too. It
           | lumps a lot of stuff into "DIY", and woodworking is part of
           | it--but so is a lot of stuff that more fits under
           | "construction" or "carpentry". No shade thrown, that stuff
           | can be interesting too, but there's a large gulf between
           | "crotchety woodworking dork going on about tablesaw safety"
           | and "refinishing a backyard shed with glamour shots of a Home
           | Depot sponsored miter saw set to bouncy stock music" that the
           | algorithm does not seem to grok. Maybe it wants me to
           | hatewatch that stuff, I dunno.
        
           | lelandfe wrote:
           | I can be pretty confident that once I've finished a video,
           | that _very same video_ will be on my YouTube homepage for
           | weeks. It 's useless.
           | 
           | At this moment, my homepage's first 10 videos include 7 that
           | I've already watched.
        
             | gxqoz wrote:
             | Maybe they're being fooled by toddlers who love rewatching
             | the same video over and over again.
        
               | ysavir wrote:
               | Not even that, I bet. I've heard a lot about how YT is
               | used for music by many people (myself included,
               | sometimes), and recommending the song you just listened
               | again probably has a good click rate.
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | Yeah, I have definitely watched the same DJ set dozens of
               | times for some particularly good ones.
        
               | 8note wrote:
               | Or people who are asleep and not switching away from
               | auto-plays of the same video
        
             | munificent wrote:
             | _> that very same video will be on my YouTube homepage for
             | weeks._
             | 
             | I just right-click those videos and tell YouTube I'm not
             | interested in it. That helps keep my homepage fresh while
             | still being pretty good about recommending stuff I like.
             | 
             | One thing I think must be deeply challenging about
             | recommendation on YouTube is that many videos like DIY
             | informative stuff only warrant being watched once. But
             | music, DJ mixes, livestreams, etc. I will watch over and
             | over. So the signal "did I watch this" might mean
             | "definitely do not show it again" for some videos and
             | "definite do show it again" for others. It's probably hard
             | for the system to distinguish those.
        
         | DocEasyE wrote:
         | yea ive noticed this happens more on mobile, use youtube for
         | casting to TV, i switch between laptop and mobile, see that
         | trend on mobile alot more.
        
         | allenu wrote:
         | I see this a lot nowadays. It just keeps recycling the same
         | things and feels stale.
         | 
         | I remember about a year ago, it got into a weird state where I
         | watched an old Cat Power music video, then every time I looked
         | at recommendations on _other_ videos it was recommending it,
         | again and again... I 'd watch the video again to hopefully make
         | it go away, and it would still keep recommending it. It was
         | very strange. I ended up just choosing "Don't recommend this"
         | on it.
        
         | tsumnia wrote:
         | Most systems have this issue. I've described it as a 'fear of
         | recommending something you hate'. They know you watched X video
         | from Y channel, so there is a good chance you'd like Z video
         | that has a similar fanbase or content.
         | 
         | However, it becomes this echo chamber of only recommending the
         | same content over and over again because they don't want to
         | suggest something you don't like. That's because to their
         | metrics, you don't watch it all, you don't see the ads, and
         | then you "potentially" leave their platform because there's
         | "nothing you like on it".
        
           | dvlsg wrote:
           | YouTube still recommends stuff I hate all the time, despite
           | me explicitly trying to tell the system I'm not interested.
           | 
           | To pick an example, my YouTube recommended section is full of
           | videos of people reacting to the things I actually like to
           | watch. I don't want to watch people reacting to the things I
           | like. I just want to watch the things I like. I try to tell
           | YouTube that by saying "Not Interested" to all of the
           | reaction videos, but it doesn't seem to make a difference.
        
             | tsumnia wrote:
             | Those types of videos still tick the box of "relevant" to
             | current recommendation algorithms though. I sort of mean
             | that algorithms won't branch into unfamiliar territory. So,
             | as an example, I've never looked up "underwater basket
             | weaving"[1] or getting into to. So from the algorithm's
             | perspective, there is an element of uncertainty with
             | recommending it, because it doesn't know if I'll like it,
             | be ambivalent, or strongly dislike it. Then, it compares
             | that rating to other content on the platform, like your
             | reaction videos, and even though they may be disliked, if
             | they are favorable to others in your focus group, they'd
             | still have a higher rating than uncertainty.
             | 
             | The issue is that we don't really have a good method for
             | measuring uncertain interests and since most algorithms
             | have an underlining "make the company money", we don't get
             | anything beyond the same ol' same ol' recommendations.
             | 
             | [1] Underwater Basket Weaving is a placeholder for anything
             | - yoga, video games, cooking, politics, essentially
             | anything you are currently NOT getting presented.
        
             | kikokikokiko wrote:
             | I use uBlock to stop this type of shenaningans. I set
             | filters for specific channels or "channel networks", for
             | instance if I don't want to see any Vice related video show
             | up in my recomendations, i.e. "Vice Fightland", "Vice bla
             | bla bla" etc, I set a rule such as:
             | 
             | www.youtube.com###dismissible:has-text(/Vice/)
             | 
             | This way, any channel that has the word Vice in it will
             | never show up to me in recommendations, be it on the main
             | page or the sidebar. This "has-text" regex is really
             | useful, not just on Youtube. I use it a lot, all over the
             | internet. In your case, switch "Vice" with "react" and I
             | believe you'll get rid of 99% of these videos showing up on
             | your feed.
        
             | dkdk8283 wrote:
             | I loathe videos on trending with the exception of some
             | science content. I say "not interested" all the time but
             | the third recommendation is always some bs I have zero
             | interest in.
        
         | dariusj18 wrote:
         | Yeah, I binged the lockpicking lawyer one day, now that's all
         | it suggests.
        
         | therealdrag0 wrote:
         | It's the worst on "Shorts". There's no way to pic topics and
         | I'll often get stuck flipping through the same 3 channel
         | videos. For a while I thought "oh it's in beta must not be much
         | content." Then after a while something I did made it recommend
         | other channels and now I'm stuck in another set of 3-4 Short
         | channels :/
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | smegger001 wrote:
         | urrgh this reminded me of the several months that the only
         | thing YouTube wanted me to watch was WH40K videos. To make it
         | stop I had to go through and delete every WH40K video i ever
         | watched from my watch history then mark all on my home page as
         | 'never recommend again' for a couple weeks.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | The recommendations are better if you browse logged-out. More
         | diverse, recommending things to satisfy curiosity about related
         | topics rather than the same monotonous stuff you already know
         | about.
         | 
         | We hypothesized this might be because you're less likely to be
         | hooked yet, so it wants you to really get the good stuff and
         | hope that you then want to subscribe to or comment on
         | something? And once you're signed up, you might stay on the
         | site longer if you need to keep looking for stuff you like and
         | generate more ad impressions.
         | 
         | I should really do a comparison logged-out vs. logged-in
         | because I could swear those ads are different amounts and
         | durations. Also it's percentage-wise about as much as the free
         | legacy TV channels, except of course YT doesn't need to pay the
         | production company -- ShadyVPN already takes care of that.
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | I rarely see things I was 'in to' just a few weeks ago. Weird
         | thing is I don't miss them.
        
         | 8note wrote:
         | I occasionally get the whole front page as a list of old videos
         | from the same channel. All of their videos Ina row for a few
         | seconds of infinite scroll, then it jumps to another one, but,
         | it won't show a new video from channels I'm subscribed to so I
         | have to go poll for them
        
         | stevofolife wrote:
         | I think old school recommendations behave that way. You will
         | need to introduce reinforcement learning into your reco in
         | order to explore and exploit.
        
         | crmd wrote:
         | It seems to me that YouTube is doing complex bucket testing
         | with the recommendation algorithm. Some days, my recommendation
         | list is full of obscure-but-relevant-to-my interests content
         | that would require legitimate ML to populate, and then the next
         | day my feed is basically                 SELECT DISTINCT
         | videos.*        FROM videos, followers        WHERE
         | videos.creator=followers.creator       AND followers.user = $ME
        
         | thejackgoode wrote:
         | I stopped liking and interacting with niche stuff because of
         | this, I don't want it to interfere with my normal patterns.
         | Sounds quite bad, I know.
        
       | godshatter wrote:
       | The YouTube recommendation system is okay in short bursts. I
       | don't log in and I use a private window when I browse YT. The
       | downside is that I need to choose which rabbit hole I want to go
       | down with a search, but after that I actually get relatively good
       | recommendations for a while, then it slowly starts to decline and
       | it's time to open up another private window.
       | 
       | So the system is relatively good starting from a clean slate for
       | a short period of time when focused on a relatively narrow set of
       | content. Other than that, I haven't found it to be very useful.
       | Before doing this, I would rely on search and ignore most if not
       | all of the recommendations that came my way.
        
       | JoshTriplett wrote:
       | I use, bookmark, and recommend
       | https://www.youtube.com/feed/subscriptions , which is just a
       | reverse chronological feed of videos from channels you subscribe
       | to.
        
         | foofoo4u wrote:
         | Wow, this is way better. Thanks. It makes me feel like I have
         | restored a bit more control.
        
         | djent wrote:
         | This link is displayed on the homepage from the button labeled
         | "Subscriptions" and is part of the main site-wide hamburger
         | menu. How is it people miss this feature? I have always used it
         | as my main YouTube home page
        
         | kikokikokiko wrote:
         | I did not know about this feed. It's a HUGE improvement over
         | the algo, really what many of us wanted all along, a feed of
         | the most recent videos published by our subscribed channels. Tx
        
       | notanzaiiswear wrote:
       | "videos from reputable sources like Vox" - yeah, right...
       | 
       | I wonder who that article is addressed to? At first it may seem
       | they want to reassure viewers that they will get shown the best
       | content. But the longer the article goes on, the more it sounds
       | like a reassurance that they will absolutely block out unwanted
       | political views.
       | 
       | Why do they feel the need to put out such an article? To stave of
       | government regulation? Or for their own political activism? To
       | reassure the leftist mob that they won't be part guilty of
       | electing another Trump?
       | 
       | I mean as a user, I'd like reassurance that the algorithm tries
       | to show me videos _I_ want to see, not videos that others want me
       | to see.
       | 
       | I am not afraid of being shown a flat-earther video, so I don't
       | get the appeal of the promise to not show me certain things.
        
         | badmadrad wrote:
         | exactly, they are proud to tell you they block videos that are
         | "problematic" from being recommended. But problematic to whom
         | or what is not described. As this would surely reveal their
         | bias in their algorithms. And also who our overlords are.
        
           | Pxtl wrote:
           | There's a pretty solid consensus that white supremacists,
           | vaccine-deniers, and election deniers are "problematic" and
           | YT isn't going out on a limb to make that call.
        
       | rubicon33 wrote:
       | Be careful with YouTube. For years people have talked about
       | social media's effect on mental health, but personally, I've
       | found the biggest hit to be YouTube.
       | 
       | Their recommendation system is really the heart of the beast.
       | It's essentially a dopamine reward system, not too dissimilar
       | from a slot machine at a casino. Pull the lever (refresh the
       | page) and get random results! It sucks you in to a cycle of
       | refreshing, finding videos you're interested in, clicking, rinse,
       | repeat.
       | 
       | Personally I found myself losing hours per day to this behavior
       | and gaining very little from it.
       | 
       | Far more productive, is going to YouTube for something SPECIFIC.
       | Use the search function to find what you're looking for, and
       | watch those videos, but never use the homepage or sidebar
       | recommendations.
       | 
       | There are actually google chrome plugins which will totally
       | remove the recommended section:
       | 
       | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/unhook-remove-yout...
        
         | raman162 wrote:
         | I had the same problem as well. The unhook extension works
         | great. I also uninstalled the YouTube app on my mobile and only
         | use the browser.
        
         | dabfiend19 wrote:
         | lol bruh have you ever used tiktok
        
           | seneca wrote:
           | > lol bruh have you ever used tiktok
           | 
           | Please don't make low effort posts like this here.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | > Far more productive, is going to YouTube for something
         | SPECIFIC. Use the search function to find what you're looking
         | for
         | 
         | I'd sometimes forget what I came for based on the
         | recommendations from the homepage. Not that I was logged in and
         | saw interesting stuff -- not even -- just the sheer uselessness
         | of what people apparently watch the most (clickbait titles,
         | soccer match replays, gasping surprised face with all-caps
         | title, you know the type). Adding that part of the homepage to
         | the ad blocker, using the pipette tool in uBlock Origin, helped
         | a lot. Or add the youtube search to your address bar (firefox:
         | add keyword search, or go via ddg bang commands) so you don't
         | have to open the homepage to get a search box.
        
         | jedimastert wrote:
         | > Far more productive, is going to YouTube for something
         | SPECIFIC. Use the search function to find what you're looking
         | for, and watch those videos, but never use the homepage or
         | sidebar recommendations
         | 
         | I've found myself doing this more recently, but I also like
         | exploring. I think my goal is to not _start_ from
         | recommendations, but a specific curiosity, and roll from there.
         | 
         | Then again, there are plenty of creators that will bring me
         | things I never even thought to consider. 3blue1brown was
         | mentioned in the article, and I have notifications turned on
         | for them because I know for a fact I will watch the entire
         | video.
        
         | robbomacrae wrote:
         | I completely agree. I replied to another comment with more
         | anecdotal evidence but people are absolutely missing how
         | dangerous YouTube is because of all the focus on FB. Content is
         | getting worse as creators focus on spammy click bait and DO NOT
         | let your kids anywhere near youtube... even the YouTube for
         | kids. They will end up getting sucked into that dopamine reward
         | system you mention, consuming the most banal content.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > It sucks you in to a cycle of refreshing, finding videos
         | you're interested in, clicking, rinse, repeat.
         | 
         | Well then I guess that I'm lucky that the recommendation system
         | almost entirely fails to find videos that I'm interested in!
        
         | iotku wrote:
         | >Far more productive, is going to YouTube for something
         | SPECIFIC. Use the search function to find what you're looking
         | for, and watch those videos, but never use the homepage or
         | sidebar recommendations.
         | 
         | Unfortunately the search is far from independent of the
         | recommendation algorithm.
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | And as I got on YouTube just now, the recommendations are just
       | utter junk. It is a bunch of clickbait on things I don't even
       | like and find annoying and repulsive. This is why I use things
       | like youtube-dl, NewPipe, etc.
        
         | spiderice wrote:
         | > This is why I use things like youtube-dl, NewPipe, etc.
         | 
         | Perhaps this is the reason the recommendations are junk? How
         | can Youtube recommend you videos if you hide what you like from
         | Youtube?
         | 
         | I watch a lot of Youtube, signed in, on Youtube.com, and my
         | recommendations are great.
        
         | foofoo4u wrote:
         | Do you know if https://freetubeapp.io/ is any better? I do most
         | of my viewing on desktop.
        
         | BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
         | I use uBlock Origin to hide every video on the recommendations
         | panel except for what is about to be played next. It is
         | surprisingly great.
        
           | kikokikokiko wrote:
           | I use uBlock on a slightly different way. I set filters for
           | specific channels or "channel networks", for instance if I
           | don't want to see any Vice related video show up in my
           | recomendations, i.e. "Vice Fightland", "Vice bla bla bla"
           | etc, I set a rule such as:
           | 
           | www.youtube.com###dismissible:has-text(/Vice/)
           | 
           | This way, any channel that has the word Vice in it will never
           | show up to me in recommendations, be it on the main page or
           | the sidebar. This "has-text" regex is really useful, not just
           | on Youtube. I use it a lot, all over the internet.
        
       | DantesKite wrote:
       | I've learned so much from YouTube. It's essentially a Gutenberg
       | Revolution.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | A lot of comments here seem to not know:
       | 
       | 1. If you don't have your YouTube activity history enabled, the
       | algorithm doesn't remember what you've watched and you'll
       | probably get clickbaity/junky recommendations.
       | 
       | 2. If you have set your history to expire after some amount of
       | time, it will start re-recommending videos you've already seen
       | once it has forgotten you have watched them.
       | 
       | You can set both options here:
       | 
       | https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols/youtube
        
         | dvdkon wrote:
         | I have viewing history tracking disabled and 90% of videos I
         | see are new/popular videos from channels I subscribe to. It's
         | not so bad, definitely less clickbait.
        
         | marapuru wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure Youtube knows that people who did one of the
         | things you mentioned get fed up with their crappy
         | recommendations and enable the recommendations, just to be
         | 'fed' with new content. Which in turn is great for their
         | monetization strategy.
         | 
         | It would be nice if Youtube offered a feature where the
         | recommended lists are completely removed and youtube simple
         | loads as a search bar. Where you find what you are looking for
         | without distractions.
         | 
         | I've done this myself by adding the following rules to
         | ublockorigin:
         | 
         | www.youtube.com##ytd-watch-next-secondary-results-
         | renderer.style-scope.ytd-watch-flexy
         | 
         | www.youtube.com###comments.ytd-watch-flexy.style-scope
         | 
         | www.youtube.com##ytd-browse.ytd-page-manager.style-scope[page-
         | subtype="home"]
         | 
         | www.youtube.com##ytd-guide-renderer
         | 
         | www.youtube.com##ytd-vertical-channel-section-renderer
        
         | MMS21 wrote:
         | I have my watch history turned off so the red bar doesn't
         | appear in thumbnails of videos I left a quarter way through.
         | YouTube still shows me videos that I've watched years ago
         | (Primitive Technology for example a channel which has stopped
         | producing content) and left likes on. How is it that their
         | algorithm doesn't factor in likes/ dislikes at all?!
        
       | moogly wrote:
       | I only use the Subscriptions page. The frontpage is a cesspool of
       | imbecility.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-17 23:00 UTC)