[HN Gopher] The Minimum Viable Testing Process for Evaluating St...
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       The Minimum Viable Testing Process for Evaluating Startup Ideas
        
       Author : yarapavan
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2021-09-16 11:42 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (review.firstround.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (review.firstround.com)
        
       | eaenki wrote:
       | I find all this mvp stuff just over complicating everything and
       | just complex fluff.
       | 
       | What you need to know is if you can reach at decent scale people
       | that will pay enough to give you a fat margin of profit for your
       | product.
       | 
       | So you need a product that does the job, you need a scalable
       | distribution channel and you need customers to pay enough to give
       | you 60%+ margins.
       | 
       | That's it. There's no way around it. With both physical and
       | digital products you can let people pre order them.
       | 
       | You need distribution-product-price fit. When you achieve that
       | you can pour gas on the fire.
       | 
       | TL;DR Just create a damn landing page connected to stripe and
       | take pre orders and make sure the price gives you lots of margin.
       | Then spam The distribution channel. That's it.
        
         | SkyPuncher wrote:
         | It's over complicated to you because you're already thinking
         | about making something small and iterating. It's becoming
         | second nature to a lot of people, but there are a lot of people
         | who still think they need to make the "perfect" product.
        
         | abrichr wrote:
         | How do you figure out what problem to solve and the
         | distribution channel?
        
       | trjordan wrote:
       | I love this. It puts into (better) words my long-held belief that
       | ideas do, in fact, matter.
       | 
       | Startups live and die by their ideas. The nuance is that ideas
       | can be detailed or abstract, and those details can be some
       | combination of right/wrong and relevant/irrelevant.
       | 
       | I've got back and looked at some of the early pitch decks of my
       | current unicorn employer, and they're shockingly accurate. The
       | founders / early team have been saying the same thing since
       | before launch. It's unreal how fast they figured out the core
       | value prop, and so much of the growth of the company is living up
       | to the promises of that early idea.
       | 
       | Figuring out what really matters needs to happen early, and it's
       | something that founders and early team need to internalize as
       | much as possible. If you can get that deep understanding of what
       | needs to be done, quickly, the company's odds of success go up
       | so, so dramatically.
        
       | ChicagoDave wrote:
       | I think this aligns with the Lean Startup process and has a lot
       | of merit. I may very well have accidentally used a similar
       | process to develop Mach 9 Poker. I sat on my original idea and
       | iterated it in my head and by conversing with live poker players.
       | After a few years, I finally had an epiphany and when I tested
       | that idea, the players came around as very curious. I'm still
       | modeling it and building it, but the path is solid (so far).
        
       | dsugarman wrote:
       | This article really vibes with me in general and is just a great
       | piece of content.
       | 
       | I was a little disappointed in the examples though, running a
       | course is an MVP and delivering a meal is an MVP. MVPs don't need
       | to be software, in these cases, the software is actually
       | definitively not a minimal approach, proven with a non software
       | example of the MVP.
       | 
       | So is a test viable? I have asked people to pay for things I
       | hadn't built yet and didn't intend to build if they wouldn't
       | prepay, is that an MVT and not an MVP? Are waitlists and
       | crowdfunding campaigns MVTs?
        
         | tailspin2019 wrote:
         | > running a course is an MVP and delivering a meal is an MVP.
         | 
         | Yes I too was hoping for something a bit more radically
         | different to my existing definition of what an MVP is.
         | 
         | I definitely agree that it's easy to over engineer MVPs - I'm
         | guilty of that myself, a lot, but many/most of the "MVT's"
         | described here really just sound like non over-engineered MVPs.
         | 
         | Nevertheless, the article is still useful as a reminder to
         | really pair it down to the absolute bare essentials at the
         | beginning. So essentially what we end up with is a "minimal
         | viable MVP"!
         | 
         | I was curious to see no mention of doing any kind of research
         | via some sort of survey - to not necessarily canvass potential
         | customers on whether they'd buy the product, but more around
         | the problem space, what problems they currently have etc. To me
         | this seems like quite a low-hanging fruit to help validate
         | ideas?
        
         | JackFr wrote:
         | As Sprig was shuttered after 4 years and $56 million in
         | funding, it doesn't seem like it was a good test.
         | 
         | Being able to cook meals and deliver them doesn't seem like a
         | test. Thousands of restaurants do that every day, and national
         | chains do it at scale. The test needed to be is there a market
         | at the price point necessary to sustain the kind of meal he
         | envisioned and I guess the answer to that was no.
         | 
         | What would have been enlightening in the article are examples
         | of negative tests -- something one of the firms he was involved
         | with tested and failed at, which led them to reevaluate.
        
           | cameroncairns wrote:
           | Further down in the article he mentions a failed test for a
           | tour marketplace where locals will show you around, but I
           | agree that I would have liked to have seen more negative
           | result examples than just the one.
        
         | p0ckets wrote:
         | Paying someone to plan a trip for you is definitely not a
         | product, so not a MVP. Running a course is closer to a full-
         | fledged product (more than a MVP) for a company that sells
         | courses to students, but Maven is a platform for creating
         | courses...
         | 
         | By the definitions laid out in the article waitlists and
         | crowdfunding campaigns would be MVTs to address marketing or
         | "building something people don't want" risk.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | laserlight wrote:
       | MVP vs MVT is a false dichotomy. It is made up by the author to
       | sound smart and be convincing. From the article, describing what
       | it calls MVT:
       | 
       | "Build an initial product to bring all of your insights together
       | and test them with your target customer."
       | 
       | Yeah, that initial product is the MVP.
        
         | phugoid wrote:
         | Maybe we read different articles, but "Build an initial
         | product" is what he said to do _after_ the hypothesis testing.
        
           | laserlight wrote:
           | I quoted directly from the article. MVP is built after the
           | hypothesis testing, but it's still a test, a test of the
           | independent hypotheses combined into a material product.
        
             | conductr wrote:
             | I think the point is that the P is not necessary if the T's
             | fail. So, you're creating a stop loss for your
             | time/money/blood/sweat/tears
        
       | henning wrote:
       | "MVP" is now a meaningless word that is used to mean "initial
       | release" of something. The "minimal" part has been entirely
       | forgotten. Silicon Valley people are incredibly stupid.
        
       | jph wrote:
       | A Minimum Viable Test works better when you use Key Risk
       | Indicators (KRIs). KRIs are a lightweight tactic to list your
       | risk estimations, quantify them as possible, and aim for
       | mitigations. KRIs are very useful (in my experience) to
       | accelerate projects because they are quick and easy to write and
       | discuss, and they guide teams toward the best Minimum Viable
       | Tests.
       | 
       | https://github.com/joelparkerhenderson/key-risk-indicator
        
         | Cilvic wrote:
         | I clicked through because it sounded interesting (and still
         | does) but without any kind of examples it's hard to get
         | started.
        
           | jph wrote:
           | Thanks, I will add these examples now:
           | 
           | System risks e.g. unplanned unavailability count (UU#), mean
           | time to recovery (MTTR)
           | 
           | Marketing risks e.g. customer complaint count (CC#), net
           | detractor score (NDS)
           | 
           | Financial risks e.g. unbooked letters of intent (LOI$),
           | investment value at risk (VaR$)
           | 
           | Process risks e.g. dropout rate (s), error ratio (e)
        
       | dr_ wrote:
       | I read this when it was on Twitter. To be honest, it doesn't
       | really sound very different than the MVP method. The whole point
       | of the MVP is that it is minimally viable so the founders can
       | test around it before building something full scale that the
       | customer wants.
        
         | aabhay wrote:
         | the main difference is that a "minimum viable product" nowadays
         | is basically just the product itself. It's hard for founders to
         | distinguish between MVP and P when companies have such simple,
         | growth-minded core ideas. Instead, this essay describes how to
         | try as hard as possible to not build a product at all, and how
         | that can lead to strong insights that precede engineering work.
        
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