[HN Gopher] Video streaming battery life improved from 12h (12 P...
___________________________________________________________________
Video streaming battery life improved from 12h (12 Pro Max) to 25h
(13 Pro Max)
Author : retskrad
Score : 119 points
Date : 2021-09-16 17:54 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| sairahul82 wrote:
| It may be a combination of things like dynamic refresh rate +
| more battery + modem improvements + h/w decoder improvement. Its
| impressive overall.
| threshold wrote:
| I'm sorry but who watches video on a 6 inch phone today?
| runT1ME wrote:
| When I would commute from Orange County so Santa Clara the
| flight was often ~40 minutes. Combine with takeoff and landing
| it didn't make a lot of sense to pull out an addition device
| but it was easy enough to watch a short TV show on my phone.
| KVFinn wrote:
| My phone's OLED HDR screen (S21 Ultra) completely blows away my
| TV screen. Lying on the couch with the phone right up against
| my face is actually the closest thing to a cinematic experience
| I get.
|
| Honestly it's almost better. The black levels in real cinemas
| are terrible.
| dmart wrote:
| I mean, TikTok is currently the most popular social media app
| in the world...
| threshold wrote:
| I don't think that's the type of streaming video they
| optimized the IP on the SoC for. It's clever, but not really
| useful. And who does it help exactly? Because the implication
| if you're reduced to watching on a small screen is that
| you're mobile, and on 5G. So the addicted user is now paying
| big $ for high speed data. Like giving a gambler a new line
| of credit.
| spiderice wrote:
| The real question is, who interprets "You can stream 20
| hours of video on one iPhone charge" as "you should watch
| 20 hours of video on one iPhone charge". The metric is
| clearly about battery life, not watching video.
|
| Also,
|
| > who watches video on a 6 inch phone today
|
| Millions of people
| asdff wrote:
| People riding the bus or on their lunch break
| jedberg wrote:
| People with kids. I probably watch an equal amount of video on
| my phone and my 80in+ TV.
| threshold wrote:
| I don't understand how you came to that compromise.
| mplewis wrote:
| Sometimes you want to watch video, but you don't want to
| lug an 80-inch TV into your room.
| jedberg wrote:
| When I'm watching the kids or doing chores I am often
| watching some "background noise" TV at the same time. If
| I'm not at home, the phone is the obvious choice. If I am
| at home, I'm often moving from room to room and it's a lot
| easier to just take the phone with me than constantly
| switch devices. And when I'm laying in bed at night feeling
| lazy, I just watch on my phone instead of moving out to the
| couch in the living room (sometimes, and sometimes I say in
| the living room and enjoy my big TV).
| ed_elliott_asc wrote:
| I watch more on my phone than on tv - sitting on a train,
| in bed at night etc
| hbn wrote:
| Most young people
| threshold wrote:
| No
| moooo99 wrote:
| Uhmm, yes?
|
| Mobile is the main format for content consumption on
| YouTube, Instagram and YouTube, all platforms which are
| predominantly used by young(er) audiences.
|
| I barely ever watch YouTube (for entertainment purposes) on
| my notebook or desktop, but primarily on my phone. Many of
| my friends don't even own a TV or a monitor setup.
| Order wrote:
| I would wager the majority of the world's population consumes
| most of their video content on a mobile device.
| abc_lisper wrote:
| Most people outside US use public transportation. It is good
| way to kill time on commute. This is why bigger screens became
| hugely popular over time. Even in US, the subways are full of
| people looking at their phones with earbuds
| r0m4n0 wrote:
| Me on an airplane! Spent maybe 12 hours on my phone last
| weekend flying across the country and back. Some planes still
| don't have chargers so this will be awesome
| bborud wrote:
| My wife at this very moment. In a room that has a high quality
| 65" display one the wall.
| jedberg wrote:
| Hah good point! My wife will often watch on her phone or iPad
| while sitting in from of a large screen that is off. When I
| ask her why, she says it's just easier to use the device and
| then if she has to get up she can just take it with her
| without switching devices.
| nicoburns wrote:
| 25h (pro max) or 20h (pro) streamed video playback is extremely
| impressive, as that means both screen and some kind of wireless
| data connection must be enabled, and those are usually the most
| power hungry components. I'm guessing this is at low display
| brightness, but still...
| gordon_freeman wrote:
| In general, I moved from Android to iPhone a couple of years ago
| and must say the battery on iPhone lasts so long compared to my
| old Android phone that there's no comparison really. Apple's work
| on iPhone battery management is impressive!
| megablast wrote:
| Sure, but there are a 1000 android phones, some that cost $20.
| masonjson wrote:
| I don't want to question wether Apple's work on battery
| management is better than Google's, but want to outline the
| meta of such statements. In general, I don't think it's good to
| compare a new bought device with the device you are replacing,
| since the old device is probably a couple of years old. So the
| specs of the old one must be worse than the specs of the new
| one. Another example would be Tesla buyers who are replacing
| their old car and comparing the new car to their old.
| mulderc wrote:
| I had a similar experience and what it seems like is that
| Apple devices have pretty amazing standby time as compared to
| most android devices I have used. This has probably gotten
| better over the years but when I got my first iPhone it
| seemed like the battery didn't budge at all if it was in
| standby, such as leaving it unplugged overnight. I never had
| the experience with an android device.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| > when I got my first iPhone it seemed like the battery
| didn't budge at all if it was in standby, such as leaving
| it unplugged overnight
|
| Apple has very stringent limits on how long apps can run in
| the background, while Android is more lenient. That is
| great for battery life and privacy, but not giving the user
| a way to whitelist apps from these optimizations means apps
| like SyncThing (which only exists for Android) or WhatsApp
| Web are harder to develop.
| usui wrote:
| This is a little presumptuous or possibly a misunderstanding
| of the parent's comment mentioning "old Android phone". It's
| entirely possible that the person did a lateral generational
| phone switch, but you've assumed that they upgraded to a
| newer phone.
|
| I love older generation phones because they're so cheap and
| your car comparison is perfect because buying a phone new IMO
| is one of the worst financial decisions you can make unless
| it has functionality you really need. Phone value drops
| sharply after the first 1-2 years and so I have a lot of fun
| buying last generation's phones (Android and iPhone) and
| comparing them to each other. Holding off on the newest
| phones really shows me how imaginary the price of an absolute
| brand new phone is.
| tommymachine wrote:
| It's not really an imaginary price. Many people rely on
| their phones more than anything else they own, and many are
| willing to pay more to have the latest advancements on that
| frequently used device. The price difference is nominally
| much smaller than say a new car vs a used one, and arguably
| offers more of an improvement to their lifestyles.
| turtlebits wrote:
| iPhone resale value is very good. Many carriers also give
| you significant discounts on new phones.
|
| I got two iPhone 12's for free + free line and did not sign
| a contract.
| vmception wrote:
| eh, I have the 12 pro, 256gb. did not see much in the 13
| pro that was interesting and most improvements will come
| with iOS 15 but between my ~$700 trade in value and
| subsidizing the rest of the device with some accrued points
| from my credit card company, might as well. I definitely
| have wanted the portrait video mode, since apps have been
| doing it for a very long time, Instagram at one point had
| the focus filter that did that.
|
| from my experience, buying the expensive electronic ONCE
| gives a lot of benefits and choices, because the future
| purchases aren't that expensive.
|
| sure, I'm still likely paying more than the person that
| brags about how they wouldn't imagine spending even $200 on
| a phone, so there is no real need to have that conversation
| and spreadsheet analysis
|
| but between starting with up to date technology, instead of
| starting with 3-6 year old technology, and having a store
| of value, versus a decrepit paperweight, I'm into keeping
| my mobile devices refreshed. Specifically my iphone.
| gordon_freeman wrote:
| Talking about how expensive the phones have become lately,
| the max out specs on new iPhone 13 Pro Max costs $1,600 and
| if you add taxes it would be $1,760!
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| I switched from Pixel 3 XL to iPhone 11 Pro and the battery
| life was way worse on iPhone. It's about half as good as the
| Pixel was.
| mkl wrote:
| I've never had an iPhone, but I could say the same thing about
| my old and current Android phones. I had a Galaxy Note 4 for a
| few years, the last Note with a replaceable battery, and I had
| spare batteries that I occasionally swapped in. When I upgraded
| to a Note 20 I thought "oh no I can't swap batteries" and
| bought a power bank along with it. I've never needed it, even
| when travelling. At the end of each day I usually have mid 80s
| percent battery left. The battery's only slightly bigger, but
| the power management is way better.
| spuz wrote:
| There is a big difference between the local video playback and
| the streamed video playback on the older model. The new model
| seems to bring the two in line. iPhone 12 Pro
| Max Video Playback: 20 iPhone 12 Pro Max Video Playback
| (streamed): 12 iPhone 13 Pro Max Video Playback: 28
| iPhone 13 Pro Max Video Playback (streamed): 25
|
| As far as I know, the new models are slightly thicker and have a
| higher capacity battery which would explain the increase from 20
| to 28. However, I can't explain why streamed video playback has
| more than doubled. Perhaps they simply fixed a bug?
| me_me_me wrote:
| Or maybe it was a random hardcoded performance target.
|
| Next version improve it artificially by x% by simply changing
| the hardcoded var. And boast you device is so much better
|
| It might sound like a tinfoil comment but apple was already
| caught underclocking older devices 'for the good of users'
| KoftaBob wrote:
| There's a big difference between under-clocking phones with
| older batteries to prevent random shutoff, and what you're
| claiming.
| azinman2 wrote:
| And this is exactly where I feel HN had really gone
| downhill. The quality of the comments keeps decreasing.
| There's plenty of technical information out there on the
| underclocking to prevent reboot issue, and years ago I
| would have expected this audience to be well versed in it
| before commenting.
|
| All good things just come to an end, I suppose. The
| question is where to go instead?
| daveilers wrote:
| I find that https://lobste.rs has similar technical
| stories I enjoy.
|
| Their account/comment system (a tree of trust based who
| invited whom to the site) does a good job of limiting
| drive-by negativity and other unpleasantries.
|
| I don't have an account there yet due to being shy and
| not knowing many techy persons IRL I might get an invite
| from. (If anyone wants to invite me I'd appreciate it)
| adar wrote:
| The comment was quickly flagged by other users and is now
| dead. I'm not sure the hysteria is warranted, you're
| never going to find a public site where nobody ever posts
| anything dumb.
| dougmwne wrote:
| I think it is about half due to variable refresh rate and less
| than half due to hardware efficiency improvements, and maybe
| 10% due to a larger battery. The 12 and 12 Pro got 11 hours of
| streaming playback, the 13 gets 15 hours with it's larger
| battery and more efficient hardware, while the 13 Pro gets 20
| hours with it's variable refresh rate.
|
| It appears that the battery on the 13 and 13 Pro are close in
| size since they both get 75 hours of music playback. The
| battery is slightly larger on the 13 than the 12 which got 65
| hours of music. (I assume hardware efficiency would have very
| little effect on AAC decoding at this point, there couldn't
| have been much left to optimize.)
|
| So all in all, looks like variable refresh will be a
| potentially very impressive feature, both for smoother UI and
| better battery life.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _So all in all, looks like variable refresh will be a
| potentially very impressive feature, both for smoother UI and
| better battery life._
|
| And I think coming soon to macOS Monterey too. If we thought
| the M1 MBPs had impressive battery life at launch...
| cr__ wrote:
| I think you're thinking of "adaptive sync", which is more
| of a gaming thing and only works when the app is
| fullscreened.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _I think you're thinking of "adaptive sync"_
|
| Adaptive sync and variable refresh rate are the same
| thing.
|
| > _only works when the app is fullscreened_
|
| Video of the monterey beta shows it works without being
| fullscreened. https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments
| /o1954n/adaptive_...
|
| I don't know to what extent the display itself needs to
| be different, but hopefully Apple planned ahead.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| We can roughly calculate the expected improvement based on
| "non-streaming" factors (8h extra/28h*25h=7.14h of expected
| improvements that include things like screen refresh rate,
| decoding and better battery) so therefore 25h new streaming
| video, minus 12h previous streaming battery, minus 7h
| expected improvement leaves about 5 hours of streaming
| performance improvements (WiFi/Network/bug fixes/???). Seems
| like a lot.
| xnx wrote:
| Aggressive pre-caching so the wireless modem isn't turned-on as
| long?
| spoonjim wrote:
| The variable refresh rate is what enables the huge battery life
| improvement. The iPhone 12 has to update its screen 60 times
| per second, even though movies are shot at 24 frames per
| second. That means it's showing you the same frame 2 or 3
| times, but initiating an entire redraw operation to do so.
|
| The new screen can just leave the image up for 1/24th of a
| second and then draw the next frame.
| rektide wrote:
| the numbers shown compare video, streamed, versus video
| downloaded. this is specifically an improvement on video
| streaming. i don't see where this theory that variable
| refresh rate would make a difference would come from.
|
| there may be variable refresh rate differences! i just don't
| think that's what this comparison is highlighting.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _i don 't see where this theory that variable refresh
| rate would make a difference would come from_
|
| People are comparing between the 13 and 13 Pro which get
| the same battery life for audio playback. There are very
| few other stated differences between them.
| LolWolf wrote:
| Maybe a hw decoder? (These already exist, but I mean, really
| tightly integrated with the browser.) Or some other offloading
| to hardware?
|
| That would be my best guess
| [deleted]
| Matthias247 wrote:
| Sure they have hw decoders. But they are used in all cases,
| and get fed the same input. Either some software optimization
| how network is used or a different modem (potentially doing
| also more TCP offload stuff) seems more likely.
| bydo wrote:
| I would think the newer 5G modem would help, too.
| Steko wrote:
| I'd have thought the streaming test is done over wi-fi.
| Maybe the Targeted Wake Time in WiFi 6 combined with higher
| bandwidth can account for the difference.
| nicce wrote:
| Maybe. 5G still uses more power than 4G over long duration,
| if both are enough for streaming. 5G power usage benefits
| come when you download something, and it simply takes less
| time.
| rodiger wrote:
| Maybe that means it spends less time buffering so smaller
| total power footprint?
| stouset wrote:
| Can't you achieve the same results then by pretending
| that one long stream is just a bunch of independent
| chunks and download them separately in bursts? No need to
| trickle it the entire time.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| Afaik that's how video streaming works. You can text it
| in YouTube and look at buffer length for example.
| bch wrote:
| Edit: my objection is incorrect. We're in fact saying the
| same thing. I misread a previous post :/
|
| Not if the broadcast is (eg) HLS[0], so I think the
| proper answer is: "it depends."
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming?wpr
| ov=sfti...
| bjustin wrote:
| I am surprised to see someone saying HLS wouldn't work
| this way. I'm not up to speed on the latest in HLS, but
| when I used it circa ten years ago, HLS worked by
| providing parts of a stream as individual video files, so
| I'd expect this is more true for HLS than a single-file-
| as-a-stream, not less. Videos were divided into fixed-
| length files, e.g. 10 seconds each. The playlist file
| saying what video files to use could list all of the file
| names up front for every provided quality level.
| bch wrote:
| Indeed you're right (and this was my understanding too) -
| I misread what a previous commenter was intending. I
| thought they were saying most broadcasts are 1-piece
| blobs, thus good for 5G bursting. My experience w HLS is
| indeed some small-number-of-seconds frames at a time. I
| guess I'm not sure here whether 5G is more battery-
| efficient or not. "Fast-enough" is all that's required,
| so I guess it's just the calculus of energy/bytes and how
| long the radio can sleep between segments. Seems very
| circumstantial to me...
| 0x0 wrote:
| If you're watching a live stream, there won't be all that
| many seconds you can buffer.
| cromka wrote:
| They did say during the conference that the new chip had a
| new video encoder/decider, so that sounds plausible.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Maybe just more efficient since the A14 already had AV1 and
| HEVC support.
|
| https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/igpu-apple_a14-180
| cornstalks wrote:
| > the A14 already had AV1
|
| Uh, I'm gonna need to see a reputable citation for that
| claim.
| slownews45 wrote:
| They highlighted dynamic refresh rate on screen. So screen can
| run at 30FPS (half of normal speed) if you are streaming 30FPS
| content (which many folks do). Or even 24FPS (which now won't
| need to be converted - nice!).
| gpt5 wrote:
| None of these factors explain why they closed the large gap
| between offline and online video playback
| tommymachine wrote:
| 1/4 of a millimeter increased thickness isn't exactly a ton of
| space for battery expansion. Comes to a bit less than 3.1 cm^3
| (less due to corners which are "safe for kids").
| Kognito wrote:
| Perhaps they're assuming a cinematic frame rate of 24fps for
| streaming video and matching the refresh rate to that versus
| whatever refresh rate an iPhone 12 Pro has - guessing 60hz?
|
| Still seems a big increase but maybe the combination of the
| variable refresh display, larger battery and refined 5nm node
| (TSMC 5NP) all add up to something substantial?
|
| I was wondering if this was also factoring 5G in given last
| year's 5G modems were noted as particularly power hungry. I'm
| guessing Apple is testing on WiFi though.
| judge2020 wrote:
| 5g modems are still power-hungry which is why iPhone will
| still default to '5G Auto' which uses LTE most of the time,
| and switches to 5g for data-hungry tasks.
| cromka wrote:
| The 8h difference would be rather attributed to the dynamic
| refresh rate.
| [deleted]
| maeln wrote:
| Those numbers are meaningless if we don't have the benchmark
| specification. And Apple really love to throw numbers like this
| with no context (but hey, it work, so why stop).
| razh wrote:
| There's more detail in the iPhone battery information page.
|
| _Testing conducted by Apple in August 2021 using preproduction
| iPhone 13 mini, iPhone 13, iPhone 13 Pro, and iPhone 13 Pro Max
| units and software, subscribed to LTE and 5G carrier networks.
| Video playback consisted of a repeated 2-hour 23-minute movie
| purchased from the iTunes Store, tested with stereo audio
| output. Video playback (streamed) consisted of a repeated
| 3-hour 1-minute HDR movie purchased from the iTunes Store,
| tested with stereo audio output. All settings were default
| except: Bluetooth was paired with headphones; Wi-Fi was
| associated with a network; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join
| Networks, Auto-Brightness, and True Tone were turned off._
|
| https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html#:~:text=Video%20Pl...
| pb7 wrote:
| Year after year, real world tests show that Apple's battery
| estimates err on the conservative side. Enough that we should
| stop seeing comments like this and yet here we are.
|
| What _is_ meaningless is raw specs on their own. Your massive
| phone battery is useless if you're using it to power a 1000W
| space heater.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| This is a huge qualitative difference beyond just the numbers.
|
| With a battery life that is longer than 24 hours, I can just have
| a single charger at home, and go through the entire day without
| worrying about charging.
|
| It basically removes battery level from the things you have to be
| thinking about as you go about your day.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| I would hope that your new phone lasts more than 24 hours
| regardless. I also may not be terribly with it, but I'd also
| hope that no one is trying to stream video 12+ hours a day.
| nomel wrote:
| I was surprised to see some of my younger relatives using
| Youtube as their free music streaming service. You can find
| almost any song, with static images in the video. They listen
| with their phone in their pocket, while streaming regular
| YouTube. One of them had an android phone that let you
| disable the touchscreen with a switch, along with some way to
| turn off the screen.
|
| I have to admit I do the same sometimes with podcasts on
| YouTube.
| WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
| YoutubeVanced allowed this. You could disable the video
| stream and just stream the music.
| zerocrates wrote:
| I seem to remember that Youtube also has "keep playing
| audio when you turn the screen off" as a premium feature
| for their subscription?
| masonjson wrote:
| Yeah, or just download YouTube Vanced and have this
| feature + downloading
| noptd wrote:
| They sure do.
|
| For anyone interested, NewPipe and Youtube Vanced are
| solid alternatives that allow you turn the screen off
| during playback without a monthly charge.
| warrenm wrote:
| This is up there with the insane battery life of the M1-based
| MBPs
|
| There's no reason to carry a charger from the time you wake up
| until you go to bed ... unless you're doing something _very_
| "heavy"
| treesknees wrote:
| I'll be carrying my charger with me. These numbers are great on
| paper, and sure they can reflect the overall trend of higher
| battery life, but are not examples of real world results.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if these results are on airplane mode
| with the brightness locked to the lowest setting and the volume
| off with no Bluetooth accessories. The title says "video
| streaming battery life" however the website actually says
| "video playback."
|
| If I'm navigating with Apple Maps, which is using GPS (and
| other sensors depending on your transportation mode), along
| with a higher screen brightness so I can see in the daylight,
| I'm not going to get anywhere near 28 hours. And I wouldn't
| call that a _very_ "heavy" use case.
| warrenm wrote:
| I've been running my M1-based MBP since April
|
| I've been able to use it for well over a full work day (on
| the order of 12+ hours) before dropping to 30% battery (from
| a full charge)
|
| And that includes 8+ hours of using VDI, streaming video from
| YouTube, random other web browsing, etc
|
| My iPhone 11 (if I'm not running some poorly-optimized games)
| will run for over 14 hours between charges of "constant" use
| (streaming audio (podcasts and Pandora), YouTube, email,
| facebook, etc)
|
| I'd find it _exceptionally hard to believe_ that the two-
| generations-newer, more-efficient (and powerful) A15 + larger
| battery is _not_ going to be more performant and long-lasting
| between charges
| asdff wrote:
| Yeah I think in terms of battery health you don't want to be
| doing that either, starting the day full and having it
| discharge all day until its mostly tapped by the end. I had a
| 2020 intel macbook and while it wasnt the 24 hours the m1s
| get, apple claimed it was good for 12 hours so I decided it
| would be fine to use for my 8 hour workday without a charger.
|
| After a year and like 230 battery cycles of doing that, the
| battery was down 15% capacity and I was reaching for the
| charger by the end of the day. I feel like if I had just kept
| it plugged in instead of discharging it so much each day, I
| wouldn't have lost so much capacity in so little time.
| mcbutterbunz wrote:
| From another comment:
|
| Testing conducted by Apple in August 2021 using preproduction
| iPhone 13 mini, iPhone 13, iPhone 13 Pro, and iPhone 13 Pro
| Max units and software, subscribed to LTE and 5G carrier
| networks. Video playback consisted of a repeated 2-hour
| 23-minute movie purchased from the iTunes Store, tested with
| stereo audio output. Video playback (streamed) consisted of a
| repeated 3-hour 1-minute HDR movie purchased from the iTunes
| Store, tested with stereo audio output. All settings were
| default except: Bluetooth was paired with headphones; Wi-Fi
| was associated with a network; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join
| Networks, Auto-Brightness, and True Tone were turned off.
|
| https://www.apple.com/iphone/battery.html
| bserge wrote:
| Surprised they went with 13. It still has a negative connotation
| around the world. Especially among people willing to buy an
| iPhone.
| pineconewarrior wrote:
| Folks are calling the 13 an "S" tier phone(ala iPhone 5 ->
| iPhone 5S) disguised as a new device.
|
| Apple decided to take the 12S design and call it the 13 for a
| two key reasons.
|
| 1.) they can get the unlucky number out of the way and save
| their big new design paradigm for 14.
|
| 2.) due to supply chain issues, it is more feasible to source
| the iPhone 12-esque parts for the next year. Normally they
| would release an S version mid-year and release the next
| numbered phone later that year. This gives them more time.
| junipertea wrote:
| Maybe the variable refresh rate helps as well?
| fermentation wrote:
| Yeah surely this measurement is for 30Hz video.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| Go to 24Hz video for a 20% difference right there. Keep
| going, Apple didn't say this _wasn't_ while viewing a 15fps
| 1900 silent video.
|
| _( I had to look it up, the first silent films were 14-26fps
| cranked by hand. The first talkies mechanically linked the
| projector to the phonograph at 24fps)_
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| If only the content improved instead that'd be worth something
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(page generated 2021-09-16 23:00 UTC)