[HN Gopher] Glass - Photo sharing app and community
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Glass - Photo sharing app and community
        
       Author : hkc
       Score  : 118 points
       Date   : 2021-09-16 14:58 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (glass.photo)
 (TXT) w3m dump (glass.photo)
        
       | jtth wrote:
       | I don't get how a pro photo app is supposed to be mobile-only and
       | subscription-gated. One of the greatest things about flickr is
       | that I can embed it almost anywhere, even hotlinking on my blog
       | or on forums, and anyone, anywhere can see it on any device. (And
       | if I pay, they can see a 6k version, served on the web, not
       | through a download link.) I am really, really into photography
       | but I do not have any interest in viewing image galleries on my
       | phone when I have a 27" iMac 5k and Flickr shows me over a decade
       | of photos collected from every type of photography enthusiast.
        
         | mkr-hn wrote:
         | I used a few Flickr embeds on my site and it reminded me of all
         | the promise of composability and interoperability in the early
         | web. I miss it.
        
         | efraim wrote:
         | Not mobile-only, iphone-only. This is a good example of how ios
         | is a seperate market and Apple has the monopoly.
        
           | drusepth wrote:
           | This seems like a good example of how some devs treat ios
           | like a separate market and lose out on a significant portion
           | of the potential user pie.
        
             | ZephyrBlu wrote:
             | iOS users are likely to be much higher value than Android
             | users.
        
           | Jcowell wrote:
           | Still mobile only. The PS4 Spiderman game is Console only
           | even if it's a PS4 exclusive.
        
       | bonaldi wrote:
       | This falls uneasily between two stools for me. For a photography-
       | focused space, it doesn't have anything like the wealth of
       | photography tools and data that Flickr does (or even just EXIF).
       | For a community space, it doesn't have bookmarking or nudging or
       | sufficient interaction beyond comments to make that work for me
       | either.
       | 
       | Both those things can be secondary if it's exposing you to great
       | new work and new trends in photography, but the onboarding didn't
       | bode well on that front: of all the photographers it suggested I
       | follow there was one woman and one non-white person in the mix.
       | That's not a slam dunk on their work but it did turn out (from
       | what I can see) to all be in a very similar sort of "late-
       | millennial white man with a mirrorless" niche.
        
         | sib wrote:
         | It shows a limited subset of the EXIF (camera, ISO, focal
         | length, aperture, shutter speed) - although I notice that not
         | all images have the data, so I don't know whether it's stripped
         | by the person uploading it or somewhere in some version of
         | their pipeline.
         | 
         | My images (exported from Lightroom, moved to phone via AirDrop,
         | uploaded via the Glass app) all have the metadata intact.
        
           | perardi wrote:
           | Lightroom (or at least Lightroom Classic) defaults to
           | embedding all metadata, but it's exposed fairly prominently
           | in the Export dialog, so I suppose people turn it off to, I
           | dunno, hide their secret sauce.
        
         | mkr-hn wrote:
         | Even one (1) queer dude would do. I'd hop right on if I saw a
         | professional fursuit photographer on there, for example.
        
       | somethinggggggg wrote:
       | Why do companies insist on choosing non-unique, generic names for
       | their products these days? I'm going to forget that "glass" means
       | a photo app the second I close this tab.
        
         | clarge1120 wrote:
         | It will take a lot of marketing to overcome this fact. "Glass"
         | is a fine name that helps while you're taking in the
         | features/benefits, but it does not help at all with retention.
        
       | danellis wrote:
       | > No algorithms
       | 
       | I don't like this particular lie. It seems like as soon as we
       | find it acceptable to tell it, we get to choose how complex or
       | user-hostile the algorithm gets to be while still telling the
       | same lie.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | It's kinda like saying that a product contains "no chemicals."
         | There's a truth that people are reaching for, but the language
         | used is deceptive. Clearly, "select * from my_table order by
         | insertion_time" is handled by an algorithm... but it isn't
         | ranking content by hidden metrics, maximizing engagement, etc.
         | that people mean by "algorithm."
         | 
         | When tools are used to do harm, they cease to have neutral
         | meanings. Chemistry is villainized because of DDT; medicine is
         | villainized because of thalidomide, AR-15s are villainized
         | because of mass shootings, etc. Can we expect more nuance of a
         | lay-audience?
        
         | rednerrus wrote:
         | Also, without an algorithm it's going to be useless. Tik Tok
         | works because the algorithm allows you to find new creators.
        
           | CarelessExpert wrote:
           | Yes, because algorithmic curation is the only form of content
           | discovery...
        
             | 8ytecoder wrote:
             | Algorithm for discovery and algorithm for sorting are two
             | different things as well. I'd love to see recommendations
             | for people to follow. But from those I follow I want a
             | chronological order.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | imwillofficial wrote:
         | This is not a lie. This is a shorthand to quickly convey a
         | meaningful feature. Namely, no algorithmic timeline
         | manipulating what you see.
         | 
         | It's just that, a timeline.
         | 
         | Next you'll be telling me that calling something "cool" is a
         | lie, because that new T-shirt doesn't have a low temperature.
        
           | sib wrote:
           | But it is - sorting by timestamp is certainly an algorithm.
        
             | groby_b wrote:
             | In a world where people nitpick each other to death, sure.
             | Meanwhile, in the real world, language has meaning beyond
             | the literal expression.
             | 
             | And I'm willing to put money on the fact that their target
             | audience understands perfectly what "no algorithm" means.
             | Heck, even the people complaining know what it means, they
             | just like being right.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | itake wrote:
           | a timeline is an algorithm?
           | 
           | Wait until people start gaming the timeline based algorithm
           | by deleting and re-posting images, so they stay at the top
           | slot.
           | 
           | When does "no algorithm" become an algorithm? When you add
           | ML?
        
             | notJim wrote:
             | In the common language used these days, "the algorithm"
             | refers to the sorting/reranking companies like Facebook and
             | now Twitter do to attempt to show you posts you're most
             | likely to engage with. I think the vast majority of people
             | reading that Glass has "no algorithm" will understand this.
        
       | perardi wrote:
       | Insert an obvious and oft-repeated lament that Flickr could have
       | thrived if they had been managed properly.
       | 
       | But gosh, Flickr was and is so good. (At least on desktop.) The
       | simple fact I can _link to a photo with an obvious download
       | button_ and it shows up as a real webpage and not a lightbox or
       | something is sadly remarkable.
       | 
       | https://www.flickr.com/photos/perardi/51209773555/in/album-7...
        
       | nbzso wrote:
       | I really, really don't understand why I have to put my self in
       | the position to be censured, scanned or to not have control over
       | the UX.
       | 
       | It is 2021, hosting is dirt cheap, there are proven ways to
       | create a blog and share with your audience. Paying to someone for
       | the "privilege" of participation is not valuable. Investing in
       | your own brand is valuable. If you have social network needs use
       | established platforms for sharing, but link to your own site.
       | 
       | And one more thing: Making a service iPhone only is not cool.
       | Apple is not cool anymore.
        
         | poniko wrote:
         | I think you grossly overestimates the the technical knowledge
         | of the general public .. but yea making a service iPhone only
         | is just lazy ..
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | When I take purposeful pictures I use a camera. I use my phone
       | for a number of things, but serious photography ain't one of
       | them. (I like the flexibility of interchangeable lenses, big
       | glass, small f, long focal lengths, tripod mounts, special-
       | purpose filters, etc.)
       | 
       | When I edit photos and organize them I use a computer because it
       | has a big screen. Again my phone isn't involved.
       | 
       | Why then do they require an app? It doesn't bother me that they
       | _have_ an app, but requiring one tells me they 're just
       | reinventing Instagram. Serious photography web sites should work
       | on the web. And I can't believe I had to write that sentence.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | I don't think reinventing Instagram (as it originally was) is a
         | terrible idea. Instagram with a different culture from the
         | Instagram of today, with a highly-polished experience focused
         | on amateur photography (today's phones have incredible cameras)
         | instead of just being "Facebook, but the images are really
         | big". It would be niche, but I think we need more niche and
         | specialized apps/services these days.
         | 
         | Not that it shouldn't expand to Android and the web, but I
         | think for this kind of premium and niche experience you can
         | justify handwriting your MVP for iOS instead of starting with
         | the web and/or React Native
        
         | kredd wrote:
         | Although I'm not in the industry, I've witnessed professional
         | photographers taking photos and sharing them using iPhones.
         | There was a brief anecdote of a photographer that took pictures
         | of a model on an iPhone for Vogue (or some other magazine). It
         | had more depth to it (something to do about doing it remotely),
         | but in general, I wouldn't count off phone's photo quality.
         | 
         | You're definitely right about post-processing and all the other
         | jazz that comes into the play after the picture has been taken
         | though.
         | 
         | Disclaimer: not a photographer, and have close to 0 artistic
         | abilities, so I might be completely wrong.
        
       | shosko wrote:
       | $5/month is such a steep barrier. How many subscription services
       | can we take in our lives? Why can't it be $2/month? it certainly
       | would attract more users.
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | Those that would legitimately pay $2/m but not $5/m are few and
         | far between. In reality, most people I've seen that want lower
         | prices actually want the product for free; if the price were
         | lowered to $2/month, you'd still see the same complaints and
         | excuses.
        
           | KoftaBob wrote:
           | When you think of it in terms of per year, it's $24 vs $60.
           | That's not insignificant.
           | 
           | I've personally subscribed to the pro membership of a few
           | apps for $2/m to remove ads and support the devs. $5 would've
           | been a harder sell.
        
             | ZephyrBlu wrote:
             | $36 over the course of a year is insignificant.
             | 
             | > _$5 would've been a harder sell_
             | 
             | Maybe, but it's far harder to go from free -> $ than $ ->
             | $$.
        
             | satvikpendem wrote:
             | Sure some people do see a difference like I mentioned, but
             | in my experience of running my own paid sites, the people
             | who agonize over a few bucks a month difference have been
             | my worst customers. My point of view may therefore be
             | different from yours as a business owner vs customer.
        
               | shosko wrote:
               | My point is that it's the biggest barrier to signup and
               | if you're going to have a successful paid social network
               | you might want to consider the value exchange right now
               | as a new user. None of my friends are on Glass yet, so a
               | big part of the value of a social network is not even
               | present yet.
        
       | trymas wrote:
       | > Photography Community
       | 
       | Only for iPhone owners?
        
         | DocKitKat wrote:
         | Pretty common for mobile apps to start on iOS only.
        
           | sswezey wrote:
           | Especially since iOS users spend more money. From my
           | experience, you can have equivalent apps for iOS and Android,
           | yet the iOS version will drive 90% of revenue. If I were them
           | I wouldn't bother creating an Android version until they've
           | proven the model works with iOS. If it doesn't work with iOS,
           | adding Android will only slow their dev velocity and increase
           | their burn rate.
        
         | cge wrote:
         | It certainly appears to be. That's a bit confusing, however.
         | Every example photograph rather prominently notes the camera,
         | not phone, it was taken with. The features seem primarily
         | useful for camera-and-raw-processing photographers. The website
         | doesn't seem to indicate that it's iPhone only, but the
         | feedback section, and the lack of any way to log in or sign up
         | other than the link to the iOS App Store, certainly suggests
         | that it is. The feedback section even suggests that it doesn't
         | support iPads well, and is phone-focused.
         | 
         | What's the intended usage here? Take a photograph with your
         | camera, transfer it to your computer, process it there, export
         | it... then transfer it to your phone in order to post it? Why?
        
           | frostburg wrote:
           | It's not a great workflow but everyone serious does it with
           | instagram, too (even with phone photos, doing post on the
           | phone is awful).
        
       | imwillofficial wrote:
       | Early beta user of glass, and although it's not super polished
       | yet, the dedication to their mission, and well designed execution
       | that puts users first makes this one a must have subscription.
       | That's a list I can count on one hand.
        
       | CR007 wrote:
       | I won't ever use an app where I don't control where the stuff is
       | stored. No thank you, that's why I create and advocate for self-
       | hosted software.
        
       | derekdahmer wrote:
       | Has a subscription-only social network ever been successful?
        
       | LordAtlas wrote:
       | Oh, wonderful. iOS only. They can bugger right off. I'm not
       | buying a fucking iPhone just to use their app.
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | It might be great but my friends won't be paying for it so I
       | won't see their photos and they won't see mine. As horrible as it
       | is to say, I don't actually mind Instagram ads that much, they
       | often help me to find what I'm looking for or jog me to buy the
       | packing materials I need to order!
        
       | dave333 wrote:
       | needs a freemium model, also android and desktop versions
        
       | athenot wrote:
       | Is this essentially a reboot of Flikr, for mobile first?
        
       | mkr-hn wrote:
       | It says "for professional and amateur photographers alike" but
       | I'm not sure most professionals will want to spend 25% of the
       | cost of Adobe's photography plan for a marketing channel that
       | isn't already in the sweet spot between mainstream uptake (where
       | customers and clients are) and oversaturation.
        
       | 1shooner wrote:
       | Homepage:
       | 
       | >Glass is subscription-based, which means we won't sell your data
       | 
       | Privacy Policy:
       | 
       | >In the future, we may sell to, buy, merge with, or partner with
       | other businesses. In such transactions, Anonymous Information and
       | PII may be among the transferred assets.
        
         | reginold wrote:
         | I hear you. At least it's not free. Free is a red flag these
         | days.
        
         | KoftaBob wrote:
         | "sell to" as in sell their company to another company, not sell
         | your data to another company.
        
         | TeMPOraL wrote:
         | At least they're being honest and up front about the
         | consequences of their business being acquired.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | ISL wrote:
       | Does it interact with the open web? Are there examples of public-
       | facing profiles one might see?
       | 
       | As Instagram closes down its interoperability with the open web
       | even further (try visiting pages in an Incognito window -- sign-
       | in is rapidly required), it opens the door to photo-sharing sites
       | that are better net-citizens.
        
         | gmaster1440 wrote:
         | They're currently working on a "Discover" feature, which will
         | likely come to the native app before it's available on the web.
        
         | notJim wrote:
         | Oddly enough, one of their screenshots shows a URL[1], but that
         | url doesn't actually work if you go to it.
         | 
         | https://glass.photo/royhandy/e8ewjkla
        
       | reacharavindh wrote:
       | Are there public "profiles" of user accounts to see how a non
       | user of glass.photo would get to see my photos?
        
       | gargron wrote:
       | Any chance of this becoming part of the ActivityPub fediverse?
        
       | notJim wrote:
       | I've been thinking of making something like this for many years.
       | It's unfortunate how hostile Instagram is towards photographers,
       | considering it's the main place people engage with photography.
       | Will definitely be giving this a shot.
        
       | marckohlbrugge wrote:
       | I've been using Glass for a couple of months now and it's really
       | a breath of fresh air compared to Instagram. The focus is on the
       | photography instead of sharing your lifestyle or whatever
       | Instagram is meant to be these days.
       | 
       | I hope they can gather enough paying members to make it a
       | sustainable business
        
       | djanogo wrote:
       | "Safety as a priority, not an afterthought
       | 
       | Our community has no space for hate. Glass is committed to
       | creating a safe space for photographers. Members are required to
       | follow our Code of Conduct. Blocking, reporting, and account
       | deletion are day-one features."
       | 
       | I thought photography is art, which would challenge peoples ideas
       | or thoughts, and this policy seems to indicate they will delete
       | your account if they think it's offensive?
        
         | mkr-hn wrote:
         | There has to be some standard of interaction or genuine, self-
         | described genocidal nuts will take over. See: every attempt to
         | create a moderation-free platform. The only people who'll stick
         | around are real monsters and people who don't think they'll be
         | the target if the monsters execute their plans.
        
         | frumper wrote:
         | I read that quote entirely different, this site seems to be
         | billing itself as a community with a code of conduct. It's
         | entirely possible to have ideas challenged while being
         | respectful and courteous towards other people. It's also
         | possible that your art may not be accepted by the site and
         | community, and this community isn't a good fit for you.
        
       | beyondcompute wrote:
       | There's not that much wrong with Facebook or Instagram. They are
       | what _we_ make them. You won't have a new kind of community
       | unless you somehow create a new kind of human. Or unless you
       | introduce some kind of requirements for people who wish to enter.
       | But that's maybe "elitist", right? :)
        
         | mkr-hn wrote:
         | Instagram wouldn't let me make an account. Even if I could make
         | one, I'd have to think about what it means to link someone
         | directly into Facebook's data collecting juggernaut by sharing
         | a photo since the only way to view them nowadays is with an
         | account.
        
         | beyondcompute wrote:
         | That got downvoted fast. Typical Hacker News. (*)
        
           | clarge1120 wrote:
           | I read HN almost every day, and the speed at which a comment
           | can be eliminated my biggest complaint.
        
       | farski wrote:
       | I found it very hard to figure out how to choose content, since I
       | don't personally know anyone using the app yet. I like the
       | concept, and I don't think I want an algorithm as a lunachpad,
       | but Flickr always had groups/categories/etc that helped with
       | discovery. I was surprised Glass didn't have anything similar to
       | that. It felt like a huge hurdle to get into the app.
        
         | notJim wrote:
         | Is this the thread where we post our usernames? I'm @deets.
        
         | sib wrote:
         | Discovery is definitely pretty limited right now...
         | 
         | (@sib)
        
         | imwillofficial wrote:
         | Hit me up! Me and my 3 random pictures could use somebody to
         | follow. @imwill
        
       | subpixel wrote:
       | How is this substantially different from VSCO?
        
       | bringfyre wrote:
       | iOS only. When will an Android version be available?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | HomeDeLaPot wrote:
       | I personally won't be using the app since I don't have an
       | Android; I don't think I'd spend enough time on it to justify the
       | subscription (I don't use Instagram either); and it doesn't
       | appear to solve the photo-related problems I have (backup &
       | private sharing).
       | 
       | But it's good to see this--it's an experiment similar to
       | Instagram but with a different business/community model. Best of
       | luck to the authors.
        
       | timmg wrote:
       | I'm really curious to see the winning business model for apps
       | like this. Everyone is used to free web apps. No one wants to
       | pay. And people have become more and more worried about ads (many
       | people block them).
       | 
       | Is there a world where everyone pays a subscription fee to N
       | different web/mobile/social apps? I'm skeptical.
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | According to the privacy label, this app fits my definition of
       | spyware (by force uploading activity data without my opt in or
       | consent) so there's no chance I will be installing it.
       | 
       | Bummer they don't have a website.
        
       | lucideer wrote:
       | A lot of other commenters have mentioned the subscription paywall
       | being a big issue, but even beyond that I find it very difficult
       | to take a community "for photographers" seriously when it can't
       | be used from a computer.
       | 
       | I get that iPhone cameras have come a long way, and the photos
       | they produce are now of professional quality, but the fact I
       | can't even use this service at all from a computer with a old-
       | school traditional lensed dslr is absolutely wild.
       | 
       | Without that, it's basically just a less-usable Instagram
       | (Instagram has a website with login at least).
        
       | aaroninsf wrote:
       | I am enjoying this, though it is very feature-sparse at the
       | moment. That may be part of why I am enjoying it.
       | 
       | At the moment it is fairly easy to find high-quality work, I find
       | it most akin to the experience of browsing an art fair or open
       | galleries night: wandering without direction between exhibits,
       | some of which are quite strong, others not interesting to me.
       | 
       | The rate of timeline refresh is still quite low, though I've
       | "followed" a few dozen people.
       | 
       | It feels like a proof of concept at the moment but it's slowly
       | quietly coming along.
        
       | buildbot wrote:
       | It's kinda disappointing to hit a subscription screen right after
       | sign up, wasn't expecting that. I definitely would not try out a
       | social network with a subscription fee without lots of
       | experimenting first.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | I kinda expected that -- they promise no ads, and they're going
         | to host lots of big photos. How could they possibly offer that
         | for free? I agree though, the subscription model should be
         | clear before signup, without offering a few months for free,
         | they're going to miss a lot of conversions.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | I think it can work as a subscription, but offering a free
           | trial seems important
        
           | DeusExMachina wrote:
           | This is not necessarily a bad business strategy.
           | 
           | At the beginning it can be better to focus on the people
           | willing to pay up front. It allows you to test the market and
           | to focus on the feedback of paying customers.
           | 
           | You can add free trials and optimize for revenue later.
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | There are plenty of ways to incrementally provide features to
           | paying users on something like this while still making the
           | base model free.
        
           | buildbot wrote:
           | Sure that can't be free - maybe allow free accounts with
           | restricted uploads in size/number? Or even a free trail
           | without the subscription signup that locks the account
           | instead. I'm pretty leery of trails that autoconvert to
           | subscriptions, though using an iPhone makes this less awful.
        
         | sib wrote:
         | When I signed up (last month), there was a free trial in place.
         | Is it gone now?
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-16 23:00 UTC)