[HN Gopher] Provenance: iOS and tvOS multi-emulator front end
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       Provenance: iOS and tvOS multi-emulator front end
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 51 points
       Date   : 2021-09-16 08:52 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I was hoping this was about an iOS emulator for Linux, so I could
       | finally debug my websites in Safari or develop apps for the
       | AppStore without owning Apple hardware.
        
         | watermelon0 wrote:
         | You can run macOS in a virtual machine, and since iOS emulators
         | are not using virtualization, there is no requirement for
         | nested virtualization.
         | 
         | I've had decent experience using Xcode and iOS emulators via
         | KVM virtual machine in the past, however there is no graphics
         | acceleration.
         | 
         | But be aware that according to macOS EULA (might not be
         | enforceable outside of the USA) you can only run macOS guests
         | when host is running on Apple hardware.
        
           | gradschool wrote:
           | Yes, and another alternative is this project using
           | VirtualBox.
           | 
           | https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox
        
         | cassianoleal wrote:
         | Perhaps one day.
         | 
         | > Do you have plans for supporting iOS apps? > > Yes, in the
         | long run, we'd like to be able to run iOS apps on ARM devices
         | (like most Android phones). A significant challenge here would
         | be to write our own implementation of UIKit. Come talk to us if
         | you're interested in working on this!
         | 
         | https://www.darlinghq.org/
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lights0123 wrote:
         | > finally debug my websites in Safari
         | 
         | GNOME Web uses WebKit and is officially recommended by Apple to
         | test websites on WebKit.
        
           | mattnewton wrote:
           | It's really not a substitute for mobile safari at all,
           | especially not mobile safari at a specific iOS version. The
           | state of the art there afaik is still to have a drawer full
           | of iOS devices you hold off on updating for a couple years,
           | or else you can never reproduce the bug that your users on
           | older iPhones see.
           | 
           | There are too many bugs with things like the collapsible url
           | bar / jank when changing orientation / or just plain bugs
           | unique to their cut that won't reproduce on arbitrary WebKit
           | browsers. I've had to fix layering bugs 100% reproducible on
           | mobile safari on device but not in the emulator or beta for
           | the new iOS at the time.
        
         | karottenreibe wrote:
         | That's never gonna happen.
        
           | lostgame wrote:
           | The irony is that this is happening in QEMU; and was only
           | about five posts above this one on HN:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28551264
           | https://github.com/alephsecurity/xnu-qemu-arm64
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Why not? E.g. you can use Wine for Windows development.
        
             | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
             | Forbidden by the license.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | I guess the question is whether or not you can copyright
               | an API. The existence of Wine tells me you can't.
        
               | Kipters wrote:
               | It's hardly useful when you want to test how your apps
               | behave under a specific implementation of such API
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | WebKit builds for Linux, if you're doing web testing.
        
         | pulkitsh1234 wrote:
         | Use BrowserStack ?
         | 
         | PS: I work at BrowserStack.
        
       | trackofalljades wrote:
       | I don't recommend this, sadly. It's a very neat project, but once
       | you manage to navigate the "signing" and get it onto your Apple
       | TV, the cache which contains all the games and saved states can
       | be purged at any time after a couple days and there's really no
       | way to make it stick. It works admirably well, but is definitely
       | no replacement for something like a dedicated emu box.
        
         | unicornfinder wrote:
         | Indeed. I was interested in something like this for iOS but in
         | the end decided to buy an Android phone.
         | 
         | Not saying Android is magically perfect but if emulation is
         | your thing it's clearly the superior platform.
        
         | JoeMattiello wrote:
         | Hi, dev here. That's ununfortuante of the side effect of Apple
         | TV not having "permanent storage" from an SDK standpoint every
         | thing is a cache.
         | 
         | Commercial apps can use iCloud sync on tvOS, I tried adding
         | that support and Apple banned my Apple ID without really
         | telling me why but I think it was testing that feature.
         | 
         | I'm working on code to sync roms and saves with a desktop app
         | (I just ported the whole app to native macOS Catalyst) or
         | another cloud sync to workaround that limitation.
         | 
         | The tvOS page indicates this already and there is a way to
         | manually backup and restore save states until automation comes.
         | 
         | This is not an issue on iOS or iPad OS and all other EMUs for
         | Apple TV have the same issue unless they have their own cloud
         | sync which I've yet to come across.
        
       | deeblering4 wrote:
       | My current emulation setup is built on an raspberry pi 4 running
       | retropie, and using the wired 8bitdo controllers that look like
       | SNES controllers with analog sticks and l1 l2, r1 r2 buttons.
       | 
       | It can handle systems up to Dreamcast well, and I even put it in
       | a nice retroflag case that looks like a NES. The case is really
       | nice actually, it bulks up the system and adds a sata breakout to
       | insert a 2.5" disk in the cartridge slot.
       | 
       | So while this looks interesting I think I'll stick with retropie
       | for now. I'd be quick to upgrade to something that supports newer
       | consoles like the xbox and ps2. AFAIK right now that would
       | require essentially a gaming PC attached to the TV though.
        
       | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
       | I've seen a handful of sideloadable apps for iOS/tvOS which
       | depend on alt-store. I'd like to try them out but it's a shame
       | you need a Mac or Windows PC in order to run the server.
       | 
       | I have a MacBook but it's a work machine so probably best to
       | avoid running alt-server there.
       | 
       | The only other computers I have for personal use are a Linux
       | laptop and a Raspberry Pi.
       | 
       | I understand why (iTunes is a requirement and not available on
       | Linux), but it's a shame. Maybe I could run Windows in a VM and
       | run it there, but my gut-feeling is that it won't be that
       | straightforward. Plus, I'd need to start the VM once a week or
       | whatever to re-sign the certificates which would get annoying.
       | 
       | While I am mostly comfortable with the convenience of the App
       | Store, it would be nice to be able to sideload on apple operating
       | systems other than macOS.
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | The prevalence of the word "sideload" to mean using software of
         | your choice on hardware you own is a little bit mad. Thanks
         | apple!
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | Thanks also to PlayStation, Xbox, and Nintendo.
        
             | mhh__ wrote:
             | True. When I get Stallman-y about "sideloading" someone
             | usually says, "well games consoles aren't computers either"
             | but my opinion of the matter is the same.
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | > games consoles aren't computers either
               | 
               | In which sense? As far as I'm aware current consoles are
               | pretty much general computing devices with closed down
               | operating systems. That's essentially the same as an
               | iPhone.
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | Can you run word on an Xbox?
               | 
               | Obviously they are computers I just couldn't be bothered
               | to fit the argument in the quotation.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | > Can you run word on an Xbox?
               | 
               | Not natively, but you can run pretty much any signed UWP
               | text editor on it without any fuss. If you're willing to
               | pay a $20 developer fee, they'll even let you load
               | unsigned software for a real party.
        
               | unicornfinder wrote:
               | Indeed, I genuinely think the best thing that Microsoft
               | did to combat piracy on the Xbox was by making it so easy
               | to join the developer programme and build / install your
               | own apps on the Xbox.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | That's actually worse than Apple though - at least Apple
               | lets you download Xcode and install self-signed apps for
               | 7 days between updates without a developer account or a
               | fee.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | > Can you run word on an Xbox?
               | 
               | You could if Microsoft ported it to it. The only reason
               | Word runs on ~handheld computers~ phones is because
               | Microsoft ported it to it.
        
               | gjsman-1000 wrote:
               | Not even ported to it. An Xbox is a nonstandard PC - it
               | runs the NT Kernel, with Windows Drivers, on a custom AMD
               | Zen processor, it's just got hardware root of trust, a
               | different frontend, and software signature enforcement.
               | That's about it.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-16 23:02 UTC)