[HN Gopher] Unvaccinated Covid patients cost the U.S. health sys...
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Unvaccinated Covid patients cost the U.S. health system billions of
dollars
Author : toomuchtodo
Score : 14 points
Date : 2021-09-14 21:45 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kff.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kff.org)
| taxesandeath wrote:
| Nothing gets me more horny in the but than some good old covid
| numbers.
| walterbell wrote:
| https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hos...
|
| _> ... roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up
| on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for
| another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of
| disease ... this study suggests that COVID hospitalization
| tallies can't be taken as a simple measure of the prevalence of
| severe or even moderate disease, because they might inflate the
| true numbers by a factor of two ... referring to decisions about
| school closures, business restrictions, mask requirements, and so
| on, "we should refine the definition of hospitalization. Those
| patients who are there with rather than from COVID don't belong
| in the metric."_
| ivraatiems wrote:
| So many false equivalencies being made in the comments here.
|
| Unvaccinated people are simultaneously people with a right to
| care despite their bad choices, and people whose bad choices are
| harming them and those around them. No dissonance or hypocrisy
| required to believe both are true.
|
| The hard part, acknowledging that, is reducing that harm.
|
| And yes - I believe choosing not to be vaccinated against COVID
| is a bad or even immoral choice, depending on the reasons. I
| understand why someone would, but I don't support it, and I don't
| have to in order to think people who make that choice are still
| worth something as people.
| taxesandeath wrote:
| Why the downvote? Are you homophobic against gay sex?
| Thorentis wrote:
| What are we going to do now, ban smokers from the health system
| because they take up more cancer beds? Ban obese people because
| they didn't stop eating? Ban people who don't exercise because
| it's easy to do, and provably lowers chance of disease? Don't
| respond to car accidents due to speeding since it was
| preventable?
|
| As soon as you start excluding people from the health system
| because of lifestyle choices, you are deciding who should live
| and die.
| Factorium wrote:
| Actually, smokers and obese actually save Governments money on
| healthcare and pension costs, because they die earlier:
|
| https://taxfoundation.org/new-study-shows-smokers-and-obese-...
|
| "According to the research, a person of normal weight costs on
| average PS210,000 over their lifetime, a smoker just PS165,000
| and an obese person PS187,000."
| nielsbot wrote:
| Who says we won't care for these people? This says their choice
| not to get vaccinated is costing billions.
|
| Re: Cigarettes and seatbelts are bad analogies. Society (via
| the government) has made moves to reduce smoking and encourage
| seat belt wearing. Looks like the same is now happening for
| vaccinations with Biden's new mandates.
|
| Finally, the US healthcare system already decides who should
| live or die... either intentionally or structurally.
| relax88 wrote:
| If there was a safe and effective vaccine against lung cancer
| and obesity do you think your argument would be as strong?
| nradov wrote:
| There is a safe and effective vaccine against cervical
| cancer. Hospitals still care for unvaccinated cervical cancer
| patients.
|
| https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-
| blog/2020...
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| The HPV vaccine is given to boys and girls for free in
| Australia, and they're on their way to eradicating cervical
| and other cancers associated with HPV. Vaccines are
| compulsory to receive child care and family tax benefits.
|
| https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-
| 2...
| bdibs wrote:
| Triage exists for a reason, and it seems reasonable to apply
| that here. If you want to accept the risks of your "lifestyle
| choice", you should be the one who faces the consequences by
| being lower in priority for healthcare. If I exercise and eat
| right, when I need an ICU bed I should be given priority over
| someone who accepted the risk of eating fast food three times a
| day, surely?
| nradov wrote:
| Regardless of the moral issue, due to EMTALA hospitals are
| legally required to care for unstable patients regardless of
| whether they made unhealthy choices. Changing that would
| require an Act of Congress.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| You can dump covid patients with low odds of a positive
| outcome off support equipment (vents and ECMOs) when
| healthier patients come in for treatment and equipment
| supply is constrained. This is already occurring.
| Andys wrote:
| This could be a way that systemic pro-vax bias reinforces
| the statistical outcomes.
| [deleted]
| Fjolsvith wrote:
| Especially in Israel, where their coronavirus spread
| reaches new heights [1], despite 78% of their population
| being innoculated! [2]
|
| 1. https://www.timesofisrael.com/health-ministry-chief-
| says-cor...
|
| 2. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-vaccine-
| data-how-...
|
| They have to do something because the vaccine just isn't
| stemming the tide!
| keyboardCowBoy wrote:
| They are also giving boosters out. Someone please explain
| why Israel is struggling with COVID-19?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I assume insurers could choose to not cover the treatment costs
| for a condition if you decided not to get vaccinated. Exposing
| someone to the full cost of an avoidable expense is a solid
| method of disincentivizing reckless behavior during a pandemic
| (smoking and obesity are not comparable).
|
| If you can prove vaccination status, of course, costs should
| still be covered for hospitalization, as you made the very
| little effort to derisk.
| nradov wrote:
| Your assumption is wrong. Any medical insurance plan
| regulated under the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) is not
| legally allowed to deny coverage or raise premiums based on
| vaccination status.
|
| According to the CDC, obesity is a significant risk factor
| for COVID-19.
|
| https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Wow, that's disappointing, but not surprising for American
| healthcare (don't cover everyone, but no personal
| responsibility expectations from those who are covered).
| We'll just have to let the fire burn through the forest I
| suppose and eat the costs from these people until travel
| and employment vaccination mandates kick in.
| felistoria wrote:
| Obesity costs the US healthcare system 147 billion per
| year. We need Health Passports right now if cost is an
| issue. 5.7 over 3 months is nothing compared to the cost
| of obesity.
| topkai22 wrote:
| It does, however, apparently allow for employers to charge
| employees more for insurance under a "wellness" scheme.
| This is how Delta is charging unvaccinated employees
| $200/month.
|
| Edit- I am also familiar with wellness incentives/charges
| around smoking, obesity, and exercise.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| The sad part of this narrative, including cursory information
| both from this article and what mainstream outlets report, is the
| notion that only a certain racial subset of the country is
| "unvaccinated". I'm vaccinated and I find it troubling that so
| many, especially those in my minority demographic, still cite
| invalid information as a reason to not become vaccinated.
|
| Even as a member of a minority group, the notion that we'd deny
| healthcare to any group of people especially when there's a
| connotation of race (yes, even if the narrative is meant to be
| against uneducated poor white people) is fundamentally wrong.
|
| The feigned empathy for the unvaccinated is down right appalling
| in this country. One day, we're cheering that white trump
| supporters are dying en-masse from covid. And now, the calls to
| continue draconian measures until an overwhelming percentage of
| people are vaccinated is basically criminal.
|
| This is obviously going to be downvoted, but it's time to really
| think about what choices we make now could lead to in a not so
| distant future. If Australia is what 5 years into the future
| holds, I'm not too interested in remaining in this country.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| "The analysis estimates that the preventable costs of treating
| unvaccinated patients in the hospitals total $3.7 billion in
| August, almost twice the estimates for June and July combined.
| The total preventable costs for those three months now stand at
| an estimated $5.7 billion."
|
| https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid...
| mandmandam wrote:
| > $5.7 billion
|
| Or, 0.0007 Afghanistan Wars.*
|
| * For those who do the math, I'm including the interest.
| OJFord wrote:
| Just what the world (and especially, I hesitate to say as an
| outsider, the USA?) needs - more divisiveness!
|
| While we're at it: obesity, lung cancer, liver issues, diabetes,
| skin issues, addiction issues, some mental health issues, broken
| bones! - all to varying extents often/can be caused by certain
| choices.
|
| Ban them all, only what, acts of God and (resp. including)
| genetics treated here?
|
| (Just to perhaps head off _some_ of the hate: I 've nothing to do
| with the US health system, and am 'fully' vaccinated.)
| Barrin92 wrote:
| the world doesn't get less divisive because you ignore the
| burden that people have on resource limited public health
| systems. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil?
|
| You're exactly right that not being vaccinated is not unique in
| this regard. Which is an argument for more intervention. People
| should obviously be treated even if their illness is a
| consequence of choice, but this also implies we can have a say
| in what people do. Population health is always a collective
| matter, as this pandemic shows. We all share the same
| ecosystem.
|
| Singapore spends 6% of its GDP on healthcare compared to 20% in
| the US. In Singapore the live expectancy is 83 years, the
| highest in the world. Some American states rank below mainland
| China, the nation ranks below Cuba.
| OJFord wrote:
| Well I think it does, because saying 'people making decision
| X costs us Y' _creates_ a division.
|
| Not to say that education, rehabilitation, etc. as
| appropriate doesn't have its place alongside treatment. And
| I'm by no means holding up US healthcare (or expenditure on
| it) as a model system.
|
| (I'm commenting from the UK - in broadest possible terms, our
| political left thinks our NHS is great and the model system -
| just needs more spent on it; the right thinks the NHS is
| great and Singapore has the model system.)
| Fjolsvith wrote:
| All those people who don't take their multivitamins are making
| my multivitamin not work. We need to force multivitamins on the
| unsupplemented.
| felistoria wrote:
| Obesity costs $147 billion per year according to the CDC.
|
| People should need health passports to eat fast food or buy
| unhealthy foods. /s
| topkai22 wrote:
| If there was a safe, low cost shot to prevent obesity I'd get
| it in a second.
| felistoria wrote:
| There is actually a very safe and free method to prevent
| obesity. It's called eating a healthy diet. Count calories
| and watch the pounds fall off. If you really want to speed up
| the process you can throw in some exercise.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| How is something you need to actively do every day and has
| a significant impact on your QoL even comparable to a two
| time shot. Honestly it's very hard to take post like this
| seriously.
| felistoria wrote:
| What is hard for me to take seriously is that everyone
| just wants a pill or a shot to solve their problems. If
| you are obese, COVID is one of many things that
| could/will kill you. Every human has to eat but they have
| a choice to eat healthy or unhealthy foods. Just eat
| healthy and your obesity will go away.
| Andys wrote:
| Wasn't the cost of the vaccines even more billions?
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(page generated 2021-09-14 23:02 UTC)