[HN Gopher] Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Preven...
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       Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19
        
       Author : _Microft
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2021-09-13 18:33 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.fda.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.fda.gov)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | Where did this cockamamie idea originate of using an
       | antiparasitic product for a viral infection?
       | 
       | The National Geographic has a summary here:
       | 
       | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-shaky...
       | 
       | Under "What triggered the ivermectin frenzy".
       | 
       | Firefox Reader Mode vanquishes the nag dialog.
        
         | jpadkins wrote:
         | pretty biased article. Didn't cite the many doctors who are
         | using it in their treatment regimen, Japan health minister's
         | endorsement, or the population studies in India and Africa that
         | show pretty compelling evidence. Also they didn't cover the
         | early treatment vs. late stage when discussing the study
         | results (ivermectin doesn't help people with high viral load
         | already in the ICU, but apparently does help people who just
         | got the virus).
        
           | skuhn wrote:
           | The person in Japan who endorsed ivermectin is not a
           | government minister. [1]
           | 
           | If you're referring to the Elgazzar paper from Egypt (as the
           | "population studies in [..] Africa"), then it has been
           | withdrawn from pre-print distribution. [2]
           | 
           | And, in general, the studies that have been performed are not
           | sufficient to support ivermectin use among the general public
           | at this time. [3]
           | 
           | [1] https://factcheck.afp.com/http%253A%252F%252Fdoc.afp.com%
           | 252...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-
           | study-s...
           | 
           | [3] https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/ivermectin-
           | still-...
        
       | hitpointdrew wrote:
       | The governments of Japan and India disagree.
        
         | ulfw wrote:
         | No they wouldn't.
         | 
         | https://today.rtl.lu/news/fact-check/a/1783705.html
        
       | bob229 wrote:
       | It's pretty unlikely that invermectin has any protective effect
       | but also why would any listen to anything a government agency
       | says when they lie repeatedly and transparently
        
       | DebtDeflation wrote:
       | It seems like just yesterday the people who are now pushing
       | Ivermectin as the miracle cure were pushing Hydrochloroquine. You
       | don't hear much about that from them any more. What happened?
        
         | panny wrote:
         | HCQ is still considered effective for early treatment, but
         | Ivermectin appears effective in later stages of treatment. You
         | can read all the peer reviewed science for yourself at
         | c19ivermectin.com and c19hcq.com
         | 
         | A good infograph of the two are on the front pages if you cycle
         | through the images, but I'll link them here,
         | 
         | ivm: https://c19ivermectin.com/plot/ispae2.png
         | 
         | hcq: https://c19hcq.com/plot/spae2.png
         | 
         | You can see that in early stage treatment HCQ is effective, but
         | not as much in later stage treatments. Also, Ivermectin doesn't
         | have side effects as strong as HCQ from what I understand.
        
       | TheFreim wrote:
       | > Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with
       | intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions
       | caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical forms of
       | ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head
       | lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea.
       | 
       | I wish people would stop making the claim that it's "just a horse
       | dewormer" when even the FDA says it has _some_ uses in humans.
       | Whether or not it is effective against COVID19 is a valid issue,
       | but trying to portray the whole drug as something else just makes
       | your opponents jump to conclusions when they find it does
       | actually work in certain situations /diseases.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | The big problem is that the pills people are obtaining _are_ _"
         | just a horse dewormer"_. The specification is different, the
         | dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ (drug
         | delivery is frighteningly complex area).
         | 
         | Meanwhile people made enough run on ivermectin-based _horse
         | dewormer_ that people had trouble getting it for livestock.
        
           | jbotz wrote:
           | > the dosages are different, and the active ingredients
           | differ
           | 
           | Neither the dosages nor the active ingredients are different.
           | Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of
           | Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram
           | of body weight. The "active ingredients" are Ivermectin,
           | period.
           | 
           | I have a bottle of injectable Ivermectin intended for cattle
           | here, and it says it's pure Ivermectin in propylene glycol
           | (typical carrier for injectables even for humans). I got it
           | to treat Histomoniasis in our turkeys, which is btw an off-
           | label use, because officially Ivermectin is not supposed to
           | be effective against protozoa, but Histomoniasis is almost
           | 100% fatal in turkeys and I haven't lost one since starting
           | to give them Ivermectin as soon as I notice they have it.
           | I've found that if I give them 600 micrograms/kg body weight
           | every other day 3 times, they recover fully. What does this
           | have to do with Covid? Only that a) Ivermectin works for some
           | things other than those for which it's officially "blessed",
           | b) at least in turkeys a much larger than normal dose doesn't
           | seem to have any ill effects. As for the dose, I decided that
           | it was probably safe for our turkeys because I read a paper
           | where they gave that dosage to humans to combat malaria by
           | making those humans lethally toxic to the mosquitos. The
           | paper said the dose was "well tolerated". If they can do that
           | to their human patients I can do it with my turkeys.
           | 
           | I'm not planning to inject myself with my veterinary
           | Ivermectin even if I did come down with Covid... because I
           | agree that so far the evidence that it's helpful isn't very
           | strong. But I also think that this article is quite
           | laughable... basically it says "Why You shouldn't use
           | Ivermectin to treat or prevent Covid: because, uh... because
           | we haven't said it's OK to do so." Sorry CDC, but your
           | credibility just isn't /that/ high. And going to a hospital
           | for /anything/ is also really dangerous... almost certainly
           | more so than a couple of doses of Ivermectin.
        
         | undersuit wrote:
         | I call horse paste eaters horse paste eaters, those actually
         | getting prescribed Ivermectin by their doctors aren't the ones
         | calling poison control.
        
         | aaron695 wrote:
         | > when even the FDA says it has some uses in humans.
         | 
         | Billions of dosages have been used by humans. 250 million
         | people take it annually, and that's still to low.
         | 
         | It's a critical part of the developing world.
         | 
         | And once again the vile Left have shown their colors and proved
         | all they care about is hurting people. Hurt the Rich, hurt the
         | Republicans, hurt the low IQ'ed.
         | 
         | While stigmatising a vital drug used by the real poor. The Left
         | are awful human beings to treat the poor so badly, we should be
         | outraged.
         | 
         | Ivermectin is a very safe drug. Part of the reason some call it
         | a super drug is you can use in with low amounts of training in
         | developing countries. And when used on livestock it's very safe
         | for consumption compared to alternatives. Its not by numbers
         | used by rich peoples horses, the Left has weaponized this idea.
         | 
         | This is the fake Polio vaccines all over again.
        
       | habanany wrote:
       | https://youtu.be/RAJrgCig3o8
        
       | RobLach wrote:
       | Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin when the Moderna
       | vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms that require
       | hospitalization, and 99%+ at preventing death?
       | 
       | Covid-19 prevention and treatment is basically a solved problem.
       | 
       | My limited understanding of other's reality suggests to me that
       | people have connected deeply with a community (through identity
       | poltics or... fun) that is no longer relevant in a post-covid
       | world leading towards a mania where vaccines are somehow bad is
       | the only thing that makes sense.
        
       | Cycl0ps wrote:
       | Would it be unethical to start dosing Ivermectin with the Pfizer
       | vaccine? Sort of like hiding your dog's pills in a rolled up
       | piece of ham. The anti-vaxxers get to think they pulled one over
       | on "them" (whoever that may be this week) and I get to leave the
       | country again. Everyone wins!
        
       | jjeaff wrote:
       | There are some studies indicating that ivermectin may be helpful
       | in treating covid. But those studies are small, not statistically
       | strong, and not all necessarily trustworthy. There are a few
       | larger, more mainstream studies that don't look too promising.
       | But ivermectin is still a candidate and deserves further study
       | (and there are larger studies underway).
       | 
       | All that being said, this whole situation is basically an
       | amplification of a problem that we already have in the US, which
       | is the ability of pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly
       | to the public. Social media and right wing news outlets are
       | basically giving medical treatment recommendations to the public
       | and at best, this information is being delivered for the most
       | part by fringe doctors without direct expertise in treating
       | respiratory diseases and without any knowledge of the individuals
       | they are mass suggesting receive this treatment.
       | 
       | This talking directly to the public about Rx only treatment is
       | what has led to people self medicating with the livestock version
       | of the drug.
        
         | jhallenworld wrote:
         | This Ivermectin study has all the same problems you mentioned:
         | 
         | https://www.scholarsresearchlibrary.com/articles/effects-of-...
         | 
         | But then I don't know why you would pick one bad study over
         | another to make your decisions, so I say talk about it. I bring
         | this up specifically because of fears about vaccines and
         | sterility.
        
       | logicalmonster wrote:
       | Sick people trying the human doses of Ivermectin should be the
       | easiest risk-management decision in the history of humanity.
       | 
       | You have a drug that is safe in human doses, cheap, and reported
       | to have a positive effect. You lose nothing by trying it and
       | gaining more data.
        
       | browningstreet wrote:
       | Also, Merck itself still doesn't recommend it, citing:
       | 
       | "No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical
       | efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
       | 
       | A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies."
       | 
       | https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use...
       | 
       | Cynically, you could say they should be motivated to support this
       | trend, as it would be more $ for them. But that hasn't happened
       | yet.
        
         | _-david-_ wrote:
         | Merck is going to receive money ($1.2 billion) from the
         | government for an alternative treatment. There are generics of
         | Ivermectin so even if it does work Merck would want to push
         | their new drug instead of Ivermectin.
         | 
         | If this was not related to covid nobody here would be trusting
         | Merck due to this conflict of interest.
         | 
         | https://www.merck.com/news/merck-announces-supply-agreement-...
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-13 23:02 UTC)