[HN Gopher] Why Americans Die So Much More Than Europeans
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       Why Americans Die So Much More Than Europeans
        
       Author : robg
       Score  : 14 points
       Date   : 2021-09-12 20:28 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | Another important factor I think is something that Robert
       | Sapolsky's research has brought to light.[1]. Inequality and
       | poverty _itself_ causes significant health burden. That is to
       | say, even when one accounts for the material disadvantages of the
       | poor, different lifestyle patterns and so on, stratification
       | itself contributes to adverse health outcomes in lower classes.
       | 
       | > _" Psychologist Nancy Adler has demonstrated that how people
       | rate how they are doing, relative to others, is at least as
       | predictive of health or illness as are any objective measures
       | such as actual income level, and research by epidemiologists
       | Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett has shown that by just about
       | every health indicator--infant mortality, overall life
       | expectancy, obesity, you name it-- inequality can be even worse
       | than poverty. In the Whitehall studies, Marmot found a fourfold
       | difference in rates of cardiac disease mortality between the
       | lowest and highest rungs of the British Civil Service, despite
       | the fact they were all paid a living wage"_
       | 
       | All of the outcomes based effects on death in this article are of
       | course real, but it's astonishing that, according to the research
       | of Sapolsky and others, inequality itself can cause stress and
       | inflammation responses that can account for up to half of
       | perceived difference in health outcomes.
       | 
       | American society by and large is simply significantly more
       | stressed and it has real impact on the biology of the population.
       | 
       | [1]https://newrepublic.com/article/153870/inequality-death-
       | amer...
        
       | cheschire wrote:
       | >> Americans die more from car accidents, not because our
       | fatality rate per mile driven is unusually high but because we
       | simply drive so much more than people in other countries.
       | 
       | This is ridiculous. I've lived over a decade on both continents
       | and it's not the number of miles/kilometers driven that matters,
       | it's how terrible American drivers are. In the USA I see things
       | every 15 minutes on the interstate that in Europe I would have
       | called the police on.
       | 
       | American culture seems to have this endless desire to grow,
       | improve, escalate, promote, hustle. It permeates every single
       | aspect of life, from home buying to what is put on the dinner
       | table.
       | 
       | Live fast, die young, I guess.
        
       | xqcgrek2 wrote:
       | When one corrects for obesity, this usually goes away. Put it
       | another way, American obesity and metabolic disease can almost
       | entirely account for the gap.
       | 
       | Regulation prevents market forces from correcting the gap. For
       | example, insurance cannot charge higher premiums based on weight
       | or lifestyle health status.
        
         | frankbreetz wrote:
         | Insurance does charge higher for smokers and that is certainly
         | a "lifestyle health status".
        
         | sprafa wrote:
         | Can you share sources/data?
         | 
         | The fact that Americans are so obese it's draining down their
         | lifespan in a collective way is still something that sounds
         | worthy of study.
        
         | Arnt wrote:
         | I quote at length: "Infants in the U.S. are considerably more
         | likely to die in the poorest counties than in the richest
         | counties, and this is true for both Black and white babies.
         | Black teenagers in the poorest U.S. areas are roughly twice as
         | likely to die before they turn 20, compared with those in the
         | richest U.S. counties. In Europe, by contrast, the mortality
         | rate for teenagers in the richest and poorest areas is exactly
         | the same--12 deaths per 100,000. In America, the problem is not
         | just that poverty is higher; it's that the effect of poverty on
         | longevity is greater too."
         | 
         | Are you suggesting that obesity makes a difference in the US
         | but not in Europe? Or perhaps that obesity varies in the US but
         | is uniform in Europe?
        
         | truculent wrote:
         | Those market forces are present in Europe?
        
         | adonovan wrote:
         | Until recently, insurance companies could refuse entirely to
         | cover a "preexisting condition" such as obesity. Those market
         | forces were good for noone but insurers.
        
       | tropdrop wrote:
       | I was surprised to see no examination of the American healthcare
       | system vs. those of the European countries listed anywhere in the
       | article.
       | 
       | Doesn't it make sense to see life expectancy fall for every age
       | category when every age category and group have to contend with
       | the same byzantine and terrifying medical industrial complex to
       | get even the most basic care?
        
       | LorenPechtel wrote:
       | "Infant mortality" plays a big role in life expectancy. The
       | dividing line between a stillbirth and infant mortality can be a
       | very fine line and varies widely in the developed world.
       | 
       | Strangely enough, the combined term (stillbirth + infant
       | mortality) doesn't vary nearly as much. That says there's a big
       | data problem with counting infant mortality, and thus a big data
       | problem with life expectancy.
        
       | asdfge4drg wrote:
       | Is there even an elephant in the room? Most of these other
       | countries have effectively free access to health care, whilst
       | millions of sick American's avoid seeking care because of the
       | crippling debt that comes with it.
       | 
       | Also, I know how unpopular this opinion is, but as someone who's
       | lived in America, several European countries, and Australia...
       | the average American has a lower standard of living than the
       | average European, and the bottom of society in America tends to
       | fall much lower than the bottom in a European city.
       | 
       | Life is more civilized in France, Italy, Spain than in the US.
       | Sorry :D
        
       | findalex wrote:
       | What a title.
        
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