[HN Gopher] 'The world 9/11 created: What if the U.S. had not in...
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       'The world 9/11 created: What if the U.S. had not invaded Iraq?'
        
       Author : MilnerRoute
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2021-09-11 16:52 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | The Bush administration's post-9/11 policies have done
       | immeasurable harm to the U.S. and the world.
       | 
       | Even a lot of the domestic political polarization and social
       | crackup we see in America today can be traced back to the
       | divisions that be Iraq War created.
        
       | oh_sigh wrote:
       | I always assumed GWB just wanted to invade Iraq and used whatever
       | he could get his hands on as an excuse. There still would "be"
       | WMDs in Iraq even regardless of 9/11.
        
         | redis_mlc wrote:
         | I wish ignorant commenters like yourself would do even 5
         | minutes research before commenting.
         | 
         | - Iraq made and used chemical weapons in both the Iraq-Iran war
         | and against Kurds. ie. WMD. There's plenty of fotos online.
         | 
         | - the Iraqi army was #4 in the world before the first US-Iraq
         | war, with SH's stated goal of taking over the entire Middle
         | East ("becoming the next Suleiman.")
         | 
         | - KSA and Kuwait paid the US to defend them. KSA also
         | contributed $2 billion to the Clinton Foundation, stopping only
         | when Hillary "retired." That makes the Clintons some of the
         | most corrupt politicians in world history, along with the Biden
         | family.)
        
         | LatteLazy wrote:
         | Probably, but who would have listened to him? He was well on
         | his way to being a 1 term president who did nothing...
        
         | vondur wrote:
         | I assumed he wanted to get back at Saddam Hussein for trying to
         | assassinate his father.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | He may well have believed the whispers in his ear from the war
         | hawks. There was a systematic process of presenting him with
         | distorted information.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Even if that's true, isn't that an even more damning
           | statement about him as a president? That he wasn't even in
           | control?
           | 
           | The way canadian and American intelligence came to different
           | conclusions about the same data is suggestive though.
        
           | epoxyhockey wrote:
           | It could also have been as simple as Saddam had once tried to
           | assassinate GW's daddy and GW was ok with anything
           | detrimental to Iraq's leadership.
        
             | 3r3rni9 wrote:
             | In case younger readers are unaware, this really may have
             | been a motive in itself -- GWB was famously quoted saying
             | "he tried to kill my Dad".
        
           | sgt wrote:
           | Agreed. I believe (still) that GWB jr is and was a good
           | person at heart.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | A news story from September 2002:
       | 
       | > _CBS News has learned that barely five hours after American
       | Airlines Flight 77 plowed into the Pentagon, Defense Secretary
       | Donald H. Rumsfeld was telling his aides to come up with plans
       | for striking Iraq -- even though there was no evidence linking
       | Saddam Hussein to the attacks._
       | 
       | * https://www.cbsnews.com/news/plans-for-iraq-attack-began-on-...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | MilnerRoute wrote:
       | A statistic from the article:
       | 
       |  _" The Watson Institute at Brown University calculates that
       | 184,382 to 207,156 Iraqi civilians were directly killed in war-
       | related violence between the start of the American invasion in
       | March 2003 through October 2019. But the researchers suggest the
       | real figure may well be several times higher."_
        
         | ScaryBashGhost wrote:
         | These numbers are really important, especially on a day like
         | today. It's strange how much of a _spectacle_ [1] 9 /11 was,
         | almost made for TV. _Our_ 3000 victims of terror are thus
         | acknowledged, depicted, and disseminated throughout the world.
         | As a result, they 're remembered in some sense too.
         | 
         | But the hundreds of thousands more whom we maim, torture, and
         | kill across the globe are given no such status -- they're
         | barely even admitted to exist! Simple efforts to just _count_
         | these people etch them into the documentary record, and allow
         | no one to say they couldn 't have known. In this way they serve
         | a similar purpose to Holocaust studies: by tallying the victims
         | you make it harder to forget.
        
           | MilnerRoute wrote:
           | Another interesting statistic: more Americans died in the
           | fighting in Iraq than died in the World Trade Center attacks.
        
           | datameta wrote:
           | Very topical satire from The Onion:
           | https://youtu.be/vb5rHthCXoA
        
           | rejectedandsad wrote:
           | It's probably because they're _our_ people. It's normal to
           | most acknowledge our own victims.
        
             | throwawayfji wrote:
             | That can't explain it. Jews are a small % of the population
             | and weren't "our own people", yet the holocaust is
             | considered tragic and given a lot of empathy (far more than
             | many other genocides). Also at that point you can't claim
             | any moral high ground or claim the event is uniquely
             | horrible, but the US and it's citizen do just that.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-11 23:03 UTC)