[HN Gopher] September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time
___________________________________________________________________
September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time
Author : smohnot
Score : 546 points
Date : 2021-09-11 15:24 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (911realtime.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (911realtime.org)
| phaedrus wrote:
| I was in USMC boot camp on 9/11/2001. You don't get much chance
| to consume media during training, and they put us on lock down
| and gave us only limited information. We knew kind of serious
| attack had happened, but not exactly what.
|
| By the time I got out of training, the news cycle had moved on so
| it wasn't until the first anniversary of 9/11 that I saw the news
| footage of the event for the first time.
|
| Coincidentally I ended up stationed in Washington, D.C. and from
| my barracks I could see the construction cranes working on the
| damage to the Pentagon.
|
| So it's this weird combination of feeling connected since I was
| in the military when it happened and then lived near one of the
| sites, but I also missed a lot. This site could help me see some
| of the experience I missed.
| dharmab wrote:
| > By the time I got out of training, the news cycle had moved
| on so it wasn't until the first anniversary of 9/11 that I saw
| the news footage of the event for the first time.
|
| This might seem strange to some younger readers, but remember
| in 01-02 internet video (and, indeed, internet faster than
| dial-up) was not ubiquitous. My family has a VHS tape recording
| of the news that day because that was how the average person
| preserved TV broadcasts.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > This might seem strange to some younger readers, but
| remember in 01-02 internet video (and, indeed, internet
| faster than dial-up) was not ubiquitous.
|
| And even if you used internet video (or, heck, even _read_
| news online), none of the sources (origins sites and Google
| and other portals) had the capacity to deal well with the
| major surge of associated with a event like 9 /11. Everything
| online was spotty or broken under load. 9/11 broke the
| internet before "breaking the internet" was a thing, and more
| literally than almost anything since.
| uplifter wrote:
| I recall that even slashdot got slashdotted, which was
| itself incredible. The admins there at least had the sense
| to put up a static page with info about the attacks, which
| is where I first got some details about it after a fellow
| student in my theory of computation class first notified me
| (I think he had a pocket radio he was listening to in
| class).
|
| For those too young to know, being slashdotted was a term
| for your website going offline due to too much traffic,
| named for (and primarily used on) the site slashdot.com.
| Slashdot was the preeminent popular tech/nerd discussion
| forum of the time, and being linked from a story on
| slashdot would often direct more attention to your server
| than it could handle.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > For those too young to know, being slashdotted was a
| term for your website going offline due to too much
| traffic, named for (and primarily used on) the site
| slashdot.com
|
| A current term for the same thing is the "HN hug of
| death", as HN can drive the kind of effect slashdot used
| to (in part because it has become the new center of
| gravity for some of the kinds of discussions that used to
| drive traffic from Slashdot.)
| zrail wrote:
| I remember getting dismissed from school early and going to
| a friends house and trying to find news. The only site we
| could find that was actually responding was Slashdot, which
| went to text-only for the day and a few days following.
|
| Edit: the metafilter thread gives a horrific moment-by-
| moment update stream if that's something you want to read:
| https://www.metafilter.com/10034/Plane-crashes-in-to-the-
| wor...
| alphabetting wrote:
| Wow. thanks for sharing.
|
| "This is going to be a big turning point in the history
| and character of this country, I think." posted by Doug
| at 6:51 AM on September 11, 2001
|
| Doug was more right than he could have known.
| bellyfullofbac wrote:
| All news sites were down, I remember thinking it was
| before dawn for Australians, so I tried one of their news
| sites, and it worked...
| johnchristopher wrote:
| Sarah Kendzior (and most likely other journalists from that
| time) mentions this in her book Hiding in Plain Sight: 9/11
| changed the news, it shifted from print to the web because
| the web could update faster. Newspapers websites were no
| longer outdated copies of the print.
|
| Of course that brought about a whole lot of other
| consequences.
| dharmab wrote:
| I don't remember which news site, but one of the major ones
| had to go to a basic text-only format for several hours.
| kenrose wrote:
| It was CNN. Around 9:45 am it was slow, by 11 am it was
| down / text only.
| dunnevens wrote:
| All of the majors stripped down to the basics, IIRC. At
| least the ones I visited.
|
| Fark and Metafilter held up, but they were text to begin
| with.
|
| Internet video was interesting that day. Couldn't get any
| from the major sites because they were hammered. But I
| remember links would get passed along to some Quicktime
| clips on personal sites. No cell phone cameras, but small
| camcorders + Macs with firewire were popular enough that
| personal footage appeared quickly.
| analogdreams wrote:
| i think it was CNN that did that.
|
| i have a memory of trying to find out what was really
| happening sitting in one of my college's library's after
| an early morning class and trying to get anything to even
| respond, much less load. for some reason i remember
| 'relief' when i finally saw the CNN logo.
| theli0nheart wrote:
| > _This might seem strange to some younger readers, but
| remember in 01-02 internet video (and, indeed, internet
| faster than dial-up) was not ubiquitous. My family has a VHS
| tape recording of the news that day because that was how the
| average person preserved TV broadcasts._
|
| TiVo was also pretty common, but as I recall I just watched
| on our TV.
|
| Using the Internet for video in 2001 wasn't something anyone
| would even momentarily consider as realistic.
| varjag wrote:
| I've been watching some broadcasts with RealPlayer, while
| following the events on IRC. Our national TV did not wake
| up to the events until maybe 5 hours later.
| SilasX wrote:
| Heh, funny how fast things changed. In a 2001 episode of
| South Park, they mock Token for bringing a movie on DVD,
| assuming their family was rich enough to have a DVD player
| [1].
|
| But I watched the episode on DVD in 2006, when everyone had
| one, and so it aged like milk.
|
| [1] https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Here_Comes_the_Neighbor
| hoo...
| 4w5hlker wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| ISL wrote:
| You may find that watching the retrospective footage will make
| you want to sign up for the Marines.
| humanistbot wrote:
| Is it just me or are all the channels broken with just old-school
| TV static? Maybe the server is overloaded with the HN & reddit
| hug of death.
| jpindar wrote:
| Are you at the right time? The time settings are strange -
| something going on with timezones perhaps.
| danlugo92 wrote:
| Probably overloaded. One of the channels had signal for a few
| seconds for me.
| PrimeDirective wrote:
| This needs to be archived but I have no interest in rewatching
| it. That day, I was a 14 year old kid across the ocean. I had
| just gotten home from school and was watching my favorite youth
| program when the guy said there has been a plane crash in NYC. I
| switched to CNN (or maybe Euronews?) and saw the first tower
| burning. Then, on live TV, on the other side of Atlantic, I
| watched as the second plane crashed into the second tower and
| later how the towers came down. Writing this brings tears into my
| eyes.
| fnord77 wrote:
| I was a quarter of a mile away, saw the buildings fall and I knew
| people who died.
|
| I hate the reminders of 9/11 every anniversary. I know "never
| forget" is a slogan, but I really am trying to forget. It
| impacted me deeply. I left NYC and never came back.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| This site is interesting, but I was surprised to see some 9/11
| conspiracy theory elements in the News Ticker.
|
| Specifically, the "Janitor Hears Explosion from WTC Basement" in
| the news ticker includes claims that an explosion occurred in the
| basement 40 seconds before the first plane impact. Some quick
| Googling shows that this janitor and another associate went on to
| try to build a careers on top of these conspiracy theories. One
| of them even tried to sue President Bush and 155 others over 9/11
| with a rambling lawsuit that alleges everything from controlled
| demolition of the towers to sex trafficking by the defendents.
|
| Not a credible source, to say the least. I have no idea why this
| site thought to include his claims, but I suspect they're trying
| to seed doubt about the official timelines.
|
| Cool site, but take some of the editorialized content with a huge
| grain of salt.
| tommymachine wrote:
| I'm not sure how those things discredit the janitor.
|
| Are you as critical of the politicians, who have built their
| livelihoods off of going around speaking to corporate
| interests?
|
| What about the government officials who put out the 9/11
| commission report, and were paid for it. Are they similarly
| implicated by the act of self promotion? Or does that
| distinction only apply to the janitors of the world?
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > I'm not sure how those things discredit the janitor.
|
| He claims there was a massive explosion that shook the walls,
| caused part of the ceiling to cave in, and other significant
| effects. The obvious source is the plane impact. If there
| were multiple explosions of the magnitude he claims, surely
| other people would have noted them.
|
| And of course, the standard conspiracy theory caveats apply:
| Do you really believe that their was a massive conspiracy
| perpetrated by experts who can coordinate such things at
| scale, yet are also simultaneously so incompetent that they
| forgot to wait until the plane impact to start demolishing
| the building?
|
| It's nonsense. I highlighted the speaking tour to explain how
| he has perverse incentives to be continue spreading the
| conspiracy theory.
|
| EDIT: I removed a comment about common sense because it seems
| to be distracting people from the actual comment
| tommymachine wrote:
| "Common sense" isn't that common. Do you also acknowledge
| the perverse incentives of government bureaucrats to
| promote _their_ story?
| [deleted]
| fighterpilot wrote:
| > Do you really believe that their was a massive conspiracy
| perpetrated by experts
|
| The conspiracy theory about explosives is even more idiotic
| than that. It's not merely that the conspiracy would needed
| to have been extremely complicated and involve 10s or 100s
| of silent accomplices, which is true. It's also that it
| would have been completely unnecessary and redundant, and
| is therefore a violation of Occam's Razor.
|
| Whatever the purported political objectives behind the
| conspiracy theory to put explosives in the towers, the
| planes themselves should have been sufficient to achieve
| those objectives, and so what motivation would there be to
| tack on yet another entirely different conspiracy
| (different in terms of operational details, skills
| required, additional headcount, etc)? You're multiplying
| the difficulty and complexity of the operation and
| increasing the chances of getting caught by a good 2-10x,
| for little benefit due to that redundancy.
|
| > Common sense discredits the story.
|
| They say things like "jet fuel can't melt steel", when
| nobody even makes that claim. The claim is that the burning
| jet fuel made the steel weaker. So don't expect them to
| exercise common sense when they're insisting on these
| strawmen.
| mannanj wrote:
| Common sense is a weak argument.
|
| common sense is only common sense when it's in the favor of
| your narrative. In the other direction, it's not. Right?
|
| "Everyone knows the towers collapsed cause we studied it
| for 10 years. Everyone still asking questions is a
| conspiracy theorist. Common sense" vs "everyone knows that
| jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt structural steel
| cause we studied it for 10 years. Everyone still believing
| otherwise is ... common sense."
|
| See my point here with your logic?
| curtis3389 wrote:
| Other conspiracy theory stuff in the ticker: thermite
| conspiracy & something about ELTs going off before explosions.
| Surprised the creator didn't cram a remote control box mention
| in the ticker.
|
| I hadn't seen the ELT stuff before, and a quick and lazy google
| didn't turn up a good debunking. Anyone have anything about
| ELTs being picked up @ 8:44 AM and ~8:59 AM?
|
| I don't buy any of the conspiracies, just curious. The site is
| really awesome, regardless.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > I hadn't seen the ELT stuff before, and a quick and lazy
| google didn't turn up a good debunking. Anyone have anything
| about ELTs being picked up @ 8:44 AM and ~8:59 AM?
|
| I only did a quick search. Found this transcript where
| someone mentions they saw a brief ELT blip on 121.5MHz: http:
| //web.archive.org/web/20210718083443/https://www.nytime...
|
| A quick read of the ELT description (
| https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/aircraft/aircraft-
| operations/e... ) shows that the 121.5MHz ELTs are associated
| with a high number of false triggers:
|
| > In 2009, the international COSPAS-SARSAT satellite system
| discontinued satellite-based monitoring of the 121.5/243 MHz
| frequencies, in part because of a high number of false
| signals attributed with these frequencies.
|
| Apparently the earliest 121.5MHz ELTs had a ridiculously high
| false trigger rate of 97 percent, which explains why they
| were deprecated:
|
| > Historically, these ELT's have experienced an activation
| rate of less than 25 percent in actual crashes and a 97
| percent false-alarm rate.
|
| So if false triggers were a known issue and the ELT signal
| was only seen extremely briefly, it's more likely someone
| taking a common occurrence out of context.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| Acoustics are weird. Memory is weird. It's possible he heard
| something of the explosion up top, mistook a reflected sound
| for something closer, then had it change on him as he retold it
| to himself and others until it was 40 seconds before and
| _obviously_ close to the basement.
| 0x456 wrote:
| They should include C-SPAN coverage.
|
| https://www.c-span.org/video/?165916-101
|
| https://www.c-span.org/video/?165959-2
|
| The second link is a particularly disheartening time capsule of
| political discourse that morning.
| awrglkeh wrote:
| 9/11 was an inside job. So is Covid.
| Datagenerator wrote:
| The resulting war took many more human lives [1] including
| children who couldn't handle the White phosphorus munitions the
| US military targeted them with. 1)
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
| chefandy wrote:
| For a second I thought this might be an emulated machine like
| http://oldweb.today has but it's clearly just a neat interface.
| Nicely done.
| ithinkso wrote:
| Besides the whole 9/11 thing, if you have 'showdead' set, you see
| the spam 'bot' in this thread. I always wonder if it's really a
| bot or someone with a lot of time to waste but let's assume it's
| someone real... do you know what their end game is? It can't be
| propaganda because it's clearly a spam and no one read those.
| Also, not many people respond to spam so I don't think 'dopamine
| hit' is a part of it.
|
| Confusing
| hhhhhrdcc wrote:
| Can you link what you are describing?
| ISL wrote:
| If watching this footage makes you want to stand up and do
| something, remember that Covid-19 is killing as many people in
| the US every two days as died in these attacks.
|
| Take small steps to make the world a better place, helping your
| neighbors, and you can take a stand against entropy.
| awrglkeh wrote:
| Government is not fucking entropy.
|
| Government brought down the twin towers.
|
| Government funded covid.
| [deleted]
| systemvoltage wrote:
| > If watching this footage makes you want to stand up and do
| something, remember that Covid-19 is killing as many people in
| the US every two days as died in these attacks.
|
| Please. This is just going to create more toxic conversation
| and politics. Can we just focus on 9/11 victims and mourne
| peacefully? Rest of the top level comments here are sharing
| stories about their personal experience. I know you mean well
| but its the wrong place to bring this up.
| chitowneats wrote:
| Heart disease and cancer kill many more:
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm...
|
| Beware the myopia that sensationalist news coverage tends to
| encourage.
|
| Never forget all the lives lost. Not just the 3000+ we lost on
| that horrible day (RIP), but the millions more around the world
| lost in the wake of the actions we chose, as a nation, to take
| in the "war on terror".
| polytely wrote:
| Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your actions
| on that front will only improve your own life, while being a
| bit more careful with covid will potentially prevent sickness
| in a lot of people.
| tommymachine wrote:
| So heart disease and cancer don't take up ICU beds?
| polytely wrote:
| Not what I wrote at all.
|
| But to respond to your point(?) covid patients that get
| sick enough to go to the ICU are there for a long time,
| while heart patients get better (or die) significantly
| faster, I recently heard an ICU doctor say on TV here
| (the Netherlands) that a covid ICU bed could help up to 8
| heart patients, which makes it extra important to reduce
| the amount of covid cases.
| tommymachine wrote:
| Do heart disease and cancer exacerbate covid conditions,
| putting more people in icu (and for longer) than if they
| didn't have those comorbidities?
| polytely wrote:
| Yes of course, just make your point already, this is not
| a chat, try to write a complete post.
| tommymachine wrote:
| So you're not winning the argument to take away my
| medical freedom, so now you want to tell me how I'm
| supposed to post on here? Addicted to tyranny much?
| polytely wrote:
| >So you're not winning the argument to take away my
| medical freedom
|
| That wasn't what I was trying to do at all, and I can't
| really see how you could get that from my initial reply,
| so I don't think we are going to agree on anything here,
| have a nice day.
| tommymachine wrote:
| You haven't seen how the moral imperative to stop the
| spread of that disease has been exaggerated well beyond
| practicality, and used to remove citizens' ability to
| consent to extremely profitable, taxpayer-funded medical
| experiments?
|
| It's a pretty direct line from what you're saying, (a
| moral imperative to "be careful") to what governments
| around the world have been trampling over people rights
| in order to do, which is lock down society, don't leave
| your house, take the experimental shot under coercion,
| etc.
|
| And the argument that destroys that propaganda is that
| it's prioritized not because it's effective in a
| utilitarian sense in saving lives, but because it's very
| effective in giving certain people a lot more power, at a
| great expense to the freedoms of other people.
|
| Maybe you weren't trying to say that, but that's the
| reality of public discourse on this topic. The moral
| imperative your are advocating for has been unilaterally
| adopted by tyrants.
|
| You should take responsibility for advocating a position
| that in effect removes people's rights. You won't do
| that, because you'll run from every confrontation that
| would show you this truth.
| polytely wrote:
| I'm from the Netherlands so not sure about the current US
| situation, but:
|
| Firstly, Ok: I take full responsibility for advocating
| for a _temporary_ reduction of rights to stop the spread
| of a novel virus with the aim of reducing strain on the
| healthcare system. I also think that we made the right
| choice, waiting for EMA approval before starting
| vaccinating.
|
| Right now here about 77% of the people (17,4 million) has
| been fully vaccinated and everything except nightclubs
| and big festivals has been reopened. I went to see The
| Green Knight a couple of weeks ago, didn't need a mask,
| or proof of vaccination/negative test. People haven't
| died en-masse from the vaccines, so things are pretty
| good right now.
|
| There is still a big backlog in delayed care right now,
| so if the seasonal aspect of covid means we gotta
| partially shut down some things the next winter, so be
| it.
| tommymachine wrote:
| Are you aware that life itself is temporary? When do the
| restrictions end? 2 weeks? 50% vaxxed? 100% vaxxed? How
| many booster shots? How many cases? Is it just until
| civilization itself is but a distant memory, then the
| restrictions can end?
|
| Bad news: the restrictions last until the end of the
| universe.
|
| Good news: the universe is only temporary!
| orf wrote:
| life is like, temporary dude. so like just ignore the
| pandemic and like just focus on freedom man. masks are
| for sheep and my personal freedom to be able to visit a
| mcdonalds without a mask means more to me than the
| potential side effect of indirectly killing someone.
|
| you see i don't care about the endless restrictions of my
| freedom placed upon me post 9/11, i care about this
| highly specific and politicised position the media i
| consume told me to care about because i can score points
| with the big bad other side! the side that thinks maybe
| you should not sacrifice a non-trivial percentage of our
| population without trying to restrict the spread of a
| virus.
|
| but nah, don't think about all that, think about the big
| bad medical experiment the big bad government is
| subjecting us to, think about the endless restrictions to
| our freedoms that definitely for sure 100% wont ever end
| and worry some more about the biden administration coming
| for my guns. fox news told me it's gonna happen any day!
| tommymachine wrote:
| Patriot Act is unconstitutional. You think I watch Faux
| News?
|
| By the way, the first article on your site has nothing to
| do with the title. You don't even mention lossless audio
| format in the entire body, just pure UX gripes with the
| app (design and bugs).
|
| You must be real smart though. Have you thought about
| applying to work at the White House?
| corpo_punisho wrote:
| COVID is incredibly dangerous primarily because of how it
| is spread, not primarily because sick people are taking
| up hospital beds.
|
| The pandemic is first and foremost a health issue, not a
| resource issue.
| tommymachine wrote:
| So the reports of "triage" problems and overwhelmed ICU
| units is a fabricated issue?
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Fatality rates for COVID increase by an order of
| magnitude when hospitals can't treat COVID patients who
| would otherwise survive with proper care.
| heurisko wrote:
| I don't think that's true. Covid is dangerous precisely
| because healthcare systems can be overwhelmed.
|
| If you receive care and have nocomorbid conditions, Covid
| for most won't be dangerous, certainly not as dangerous
| as the 1918 pandemic, which killed young people.
| shkkmo wrote:
| I think that there is a solid argument that the 1918
| epidemic would have killed far fewer people if they had
| had modern treatments for respiratory distress.
| toast0 wrote:
| Heart disease and cancer have a steady demand for ICU
| beds at a population level (maybe a little bit peaky for
| heart disease around stressful times of year like DST
| changes and family gathering holidays), so demand can be
| forecast and supply can be adjusted over time to meet the
| demand.
|
| OTOH, a pandemic with high peaks of demand is hard to
| plan for. And having excess capacity on hand for such an
| occasion is hard when everyone is always upset about how
| expensive healthcare is.
| chitowneats wrote:
| Social contagion is real. The U.S. has much higher rates of
| illness and death due to complications from obesity,
| diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, than other developed
| countries, because of our shared culture of poor diet and
| sedentary lifestyle.
|
| You pass on your way of life to your children. Your friends
| and family reinforce each other's decisions every time you
| make a meal, make plans, etc.
|
| This stuff is all vitally important. And in fact, we would
| have lower rates of covid fatality if a larger percentage
| of our population took this seriously.
| polytely wrote:
| Fair point, but from a perspective of effort vs potential
| lives saved, self-quarantining when sick, avoiding large
| crowds & meeting in well ventilated spaces is probably
| easier than adopting a healthier lifestyle. But yeah, we
| should also live healthier!
| chitowneats wrote:
| Absolutely. Everyone should self-quarantine when sick. Is
| it your sense that large numbers of Americans aren't
| doing this? Anecdotally, I haven't seen a visibly sick
| person, outside of my immediate family, in a long, long
| time (needless to say, I don't work in a healthcare
| setting).
|
| Arguably, retrofitting every important building in the
| country to be well ventilated is a challenge on a similar
| scale to changing our deeply ingrained unhealthy cultural
| habits.
| polytely wrote:
| Not American (I'm in the Netherlands) so I wouldn't know,
| but looking at the graphs it seems like there are a lot
| of contagions happening.
|
| I was getting take out a couple of weeks ago and a woman
| brought her coughing child to the restaurant, which
| doesn't seem great, so I have noticed people being less
| alert now that a significant portion of people has been
| vaccinated here.
|
| >Arguably, retrofitting every important building in the
| country to be well ventilated is a challenge on a similar
| scale to changing our deeply ingrained unhealthy cultural
| habits.
|
| Yeah, I hadn't looked at it that way, but that's indeed a
| big task.
| cornel_io wrote:
| Lifestyle changes are really really hard for people to
| make, though I agree that it would be great if someone
| figured out a way to turn that tide.
|
| Luckily getting a shot is really really easy, so we do
| have a lot of influence over deaths from COVID.
| chitowneats wrote:
| I agree with the point you've made. The OP I was
| responding to in my first comment seemed to be suggesting
| something more extreme than, "get vaccinated, and then go
| live your life".
| rkk3 wrote:
| >Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious, so your
| actions on that front will only improve your own life
|
| No, they inflict massive negative externalities on society
| through healthcare.
|
| > while being a bit more careful with covid will
| potentially prevent sickness in a lot of people.
|
| Classic Safety-ism. Even today, 20 years after 9/11 and we
| are still paying a ludicrous price for this logic.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/07/obesity-is-
| co...
|
| Actually there has been a lot of research showing obesity
| as a social virus is contagious.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| Off topic, but is there any research that connects the
| also burgeoning science of gut biome/bacteria to this?
| Maybe a total crazy stretch, but if our gut bacteria can
| be 'infectious', and if those bacteria have an affect on
| weight, that'd be crazy.
| inkblotuniverse wrote:
| Obesity is socially contagious, and causes higher rates of
| heart disease and cancer.
| tylerhou wrote:
| Heart disease and cancer are an aggregate of very many
| diseases -- there are many types of heart diseases (stroke,
| cardiac arrest, coronary artery disease), and many types of
| cancers. COVID is a single disease that has killed many
| multiples more than a single heart disease or cancer.
| chitowneats wrote:
| This is semantics. Taking just heart disease as an example,
| all of the types that you mentioned are heavily influenced
| by the same types of behaviors. Smoking, poor diet, lack of
| exercise, etc. I addressed this in another comment
| elsewhere in the thread.
| tylerhou wrote:
| Wearing a mask reduces COVID transmission by ~70% [1].
| Adding vaccination on top of that probably reduces
| transmission to ~5% percent (just a guess). These are
| almost free interventions.
|
| In contrast, heart disease and cancer are much more
| expensive to mitigate. Regular exercise reduces the
| incidence of some heart diseases for the average person
| by about ~50% (estimating from the graph) [2]. We have no
| cheap way of reducing cancer incidence (besides vaccines
| for some viruses that cause cancer) -- for example,
| intervening in cases of substance addiction is expensive.
|
| So even if your comparison was correct (it's not), how is
| it relevant? Are you trying to argue that the government
| should compel people to completely alter their lifestyles
| before they should mandate masks or vaccines? That makes
| no sense, because 1) preventing cancer requires mandating
| vaccines and 2) the interventions are orders of magnitude
| more expensive.
|
| Or, are you trying to suggest that the deaths of 650,000
| people (in the US) are insignificant because there are
| some aggregate diseases that kill more? And therefore,
| because we can't stop _all_ death, it 's pointless to try
| to even mitigate _some_ death?
|
| [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/sci
| ence-br...
|
| [2] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.0
| 0000488...
| [deleted]
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| If there was a vaccine that in one fell swoop (or rather two
| fell swoops) reduced the mortality rate of heart disease and
| cancer by 11x, I'd be shouting from the rooftops about it.
| Until then, let's stop with the false equivalencies.
| GongOfFour wrote:
| You people. You'll never understand how arrogant you are.
| badsoftware wrote:
| Comparing an intentional attack on our nation to a global
| pandemic is insulting.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| And maybe do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on
| terror has cost so far. Innocent bystanders, whose relatives
| _now_ might feel a urge to join the real terrorists as the only
| means for them to get revenge, too. Endless cycle.
|
| "War on terror" is just a ugly concept and not one that seem to
| work.
|
| https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/911-civili...
|
| Oh and something that does not get too much attention, either:
|
| the taliban back then only refused to hand over Bin Laden
| without evidence presented, that he indeed was responsible,
| which at that time was not at all clear. And even till date,
| there never was a proper criminal investigation and court
| ruling about it all. Probably because of the Saudi connections.
| yyyk wrote:
| >do not forget the >360 000 dead civilians the war on terror
| has cost so far.
|
| Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted. Funny
| how all responsibility is always given to the West even when
| the people doing the killing are their enemies.
|
| >the taliban back then only refused to hand over Bin Laden
| without evidence presented
|
| Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his previous
| crimes. Their refusal had nothing to do with 'evidence'.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "Also after he publicly confessed, not to mention his
| previous crimes. Their refusal had nothing to do with
| 'evidence'. "
|
| Source?
|
| Bin Laden initially declined responsibility, saying his
| hosts the taliban, would not allow such a operation.
|
| (surely not out of being nice, but because of wanting to
| keep the power)
|
| And later (after he confessed) the US was on full war with
| the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden not with them anymore.
| yyyk wrote:
| >And later (after he confessed) the US was on full war
| with the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden not with them
| anymore.
|
| I'm referring to that, not to his preinasvion evasion.
|
| The Taliban didn't even cut relations with him or his
| associates after he confessed, and they were not without
| influence in AfPak.
|
| Surely the Taliban should have been very upset with their
| 'guests' for getting them involved in Al-Qaeda's war,
| right? Unless the Taliban knew from the start...
| Obviously they did, since this wasn't Al-Qaeda's first
| attack against America.
|
| As I wrote, there's little reason to give any credence to
| their not knowing, and even if we did, there were plenty
| of other things they should have given up Bin Laden for.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "Surely the Taliban should have been very upset with
| their 'guests' for getting them involved in Al-Qaeda's
| war, right? "
|
| I am pretty sure, they were upset and maybe there were
| actual heads rolling behind the scenes. But on the
| outside, they had the US as common enemy. An enemy that
| hit them both as hard as he could, without making any
| difference.
|
| So of course at that time, talking about extradiction was
| over.
|
| But the Taliban while at power _did_ made the civic offer
| to extradict Bin Laden, if presented with evidence.
|
| So of course, it is not sure, if they actually would have
| done it. Maybe they would have ended in a civic war by
| themself over it.
|
| But we never knew, because the US choose to go the brutal
| way. No evidence. No extradiction. Just war.
|
| Now 20 years later with the Taliban back in power and
| stronger than ever, I can just say, awesome outcome with
| this approach.
| mcguire wrote:
| The assassination of Ahmad Shah Massoud.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud#Assassin
| ati...
| yyyk wrote:
| >I am pretty sure, they were upset and maybe there were
| actual heads rolling behind the scenes.
|
| No evidence of it, and I find this entire debate odd.
|
| Again, the Taliban hosted a terrorist group which had
| publicly declared war against America, and launched known
| attacks - all this well known _before_ 9-11. What did
| anyone expect this public antagonist group to do? Play
| volleyball?
|
| If someone hosted a group called "Death to X" and the
| group predictably attacked X, that someone shouldn't get
| to claim innocence. Especially not after the nth attack!
|
| >Now 20 years later with the Taliban back in power and
| stronger than ever
|
| A completely predictable result of the ideological way
| the retreat was done.
| [deleted]
| tyingq wrote:
| >Most of them killed by the same people the US targeted.
|
| That just sounds crazy given that our first retaliation for
| 9/11 was Iraq. Which had nothing to do with 9/11, and
| further...no "WMDs".
| yyyk wrote:
| This doesn't remove responsibility from Al-Q's Iraqi
| associate - Al-Zarqawi - and his insane anti-everybody-
| who-isn't-Sunni-Muslim war which directly bred ISIS.
| [deleted]
| adventured wrote:
| > That just sounds crazy given that our first retaliation
| for 9/11 was Iraq.
|
| The first retaliation for 9/11 was not Iraq. That's a
| really bizarrely inaccurate claim.
|
| The US invaded Afghanistan and removed the Taliban from
| control of the country by the end of 2001. Operation
| Enduring Freedom launched in October 2001.
|
| The Iraq invasion was 2003.
|
| The US initially sent its special forces into Afghanistan
| shortly after 9/11 to work with the Northern Alliance to
| route the Taliban and pursue bin Laden, and then invaded.
| tyingq wrote:
| Yes, sorry, not the first. Too late to edit,
| unfortunately.
| [deleted]
| maybelsyrup wrote:
| > Funny how all responsibility is always given to the West
| even when the people doing the killing are their enemies.
|
| It's barely ever given to the west, and never in major
| media. And when someone in an anonymous internet comment
| dares suggest we might be morally accountable for vast
| amounts of innocent deaths - a trifle of a blip of a
| nothing in the discourse - we can count on certain people
| getting their feewings hurt and becoming overly defensive.
| "I'm always being accused!" cried Tony Soprano.
|
| > No one knows with certainty how many people have been
| killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States
| invasion. However, we know that between 184,382 and 207,156
| civilians have died from direct war related violence caused
| by the U.S., its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and
| opposition forces from the time of the invasion through
| October 2019. [1]
|
| [1] https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilia
| ns/ir...
| yyyk wrote:
| >It's barely ever given to the west, and never in major
| media
|
| You must be kidding, or never ever read any major Western
| media.
|
| > And when someone in an anonymous internet comment dares
|
| Oh no. Someone disagreed with you on the internet. It's
| horrible even thinking about this. Nobody should ever be
| victimized like this.
| adventured wrote:
| A trifle blip? Hardly. It was exhaustively covered by the
| largest media outlets in the US for more than a decade.
|
| It was a 24/7 talking point by everyone on the left
| politically from the day the US invaded Iraq until the
| day Bush left office. Across all forums, anywhere a
| comment could be posted.
|
| Google: "nytimes iraq death count" or "nytimes bush iraq
| civilian deaths"; or any number of dozens of variations
| on that same premise.
|
| You must have missed the endless media parade about the
| Bush death count, and deaths from drone strikes. The
| headlines and discussion were everywhere across social
| media, mainstream media, on blogs.
| polytely wrote:
| A couple of months ago I listened to the Air Traffic Control
| recordings of the morning of the attacks, really puts in
| perspective the confusion and chaos in the air that day.
|
| It's really haunting, includes calls from inside one of the
| planes (I think the one who crashed?) so be warned.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYBhgEm3j7A
| haunter wrote:
| News multiplex on Youtube, 6 channels in one video
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACUnXM5swn0
| eatsut wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| wggrljlkh wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| rsync wrote:
| I hitchhiked and walked to New York 20 years ago today.
|
| I had my firefighter and medic credentials faxed to FEMA and then
| went into ground zero for ~24 hours to dig.
|
| I wrote about all of this, later, in what became cDc t-file
| #396.[1]
|
| [1]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20041208005336/http://www.cultde...
| steve76 wrote:
| Murder is a serious offense. Killing is a serious act. But
| removing a heretic, however, one of fierce barabarity and animal
| savagery, one who spreads poison everywhere it goes, brings great
| celebration and joy to all humanity.
|
| Kill them. Kill them all. Kill them to the very last man. Kill
| their men, women, and children. Kill their unborned yet to leave
| the womb. Kill them on the battlefield. Kill them in their homes.
|
| Injustice, victimhood, sympathy, charisma and celebrity means
| nothing. Have some clarity. It's easy. Anyone who says different
| is a crook vying for power. Don't listen to them. When we are
| humiliated or horribly injured, can't contain their happiness,
| and can't keep them away.
|
| Be blatant about it. Don't try to hide it. You are not fooling
| anyone. Don't sidequest on keeping them alive. That only
| validates their cynical superstiton. Let them talk far and wide
| about what a horrible person I am. I want them to know the full
| consequences of their actions.
|
| In the past 20 years, no terror attacks. Bin Laden, dead.
| Zarqawi, dead. Baghdadi, dead. Saddam, dead. Their sons, dead.
| Qaddaffi, dead. Mubarak, dead. Morsi, dead. Those people died as
| the porcupine is quiled and the eagle who cares nothing for a
| storm is feathered. In the past 20 years, we've wielded
| hypersonic weapons, ballistic lasers, cyber weapons and military
| branch for outer space. All stem from a culture that retires
| weapons to the field, that reduces enemies, not creates them,
| that limits the violence and seeks not to add to it. Life is
| truly there for you and me to live it. We are not there for the
| lives of others.
|
| Everyone else, the amoral criminals and ignorant heathens, do
| everything they can to return humans back to the mud and jungle.
| Our advancements and civilizations are only there for them to
| gamify and laugh it, like we are the fools and cowards and
| children. Imitation. Repetition. Theft. Slavery. Grinding up the
| lives of others like it was their's to begin with. Their threat
| hangs off their disgusting culture like decaying morbidity hangs
| off the rotting dead.
|
| Oh, the world and what it could be if only they were not in
| it!!!!
|
| Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill them all.
|
| KILL THEM!!!
| justicezyx wrote:
| Wow, such a big event in US and world history. Zero top level
| comment reflects the historical missteps and lessons learned
| during these 20 years.
|
| Guys, wake up. The world is changed and there is a reason. One
| who cannot understand the momentum behind history, is destined to
| repeat them.
| bjt2n3904 wrote:
| This is not the first comment to make such a remark.
|
| History does not editorialize. Especially primary sources:
| simply portraying them is enough. People will come to their own
| conclusions. People must think critically, and for themselves.
| elkjer wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| parsecs wrote:
| Is there a good way to download the video streams from this? I
| would really like to keep an offline copy for myself.
| chrisgd wrote:
| Do not open on mobile
| deadbunny wrote:
| I opened it in Firefox Android and it crashed whatever the
| android equivalent of the window manager process. Quite
| impressive.
| bal34t wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| notadev wrote:
| I was in the Navy and had been at my first command at a nuke base
| in the PNW. I walked to the galley for breakfast and they had
| some TVs you could watch while eating. I watched the second plane
| hit. I walked to work which was a telecommunications station. We
| processed messages for different regional commands and would call
| them directly whenever they had an emergency action message
| (EAM). I walked in to a completely chaotic watch floor. Every
| message was an EAM that day. Every phone was ringing or in use,
| every computer that could alarm was alarming, our dial up modems
| were constantly busy. All my coworkers were shouting and running
| here and there. I had never seen it like that and as a young
| Sailor it was very worrying. Everyone we called to inform them of
| their EAMs would ask if we knew what was going on or knew if
| someone was mobilizing but we were just as much in the dark as
| everyone else.
|
| I remember at one point our Leading Chief Petty Officer (LPCO)
| yelled for everyone to stop what they were doing and told us to
| call our parents and loved ones to let them know we were safe.
| That was the longest day I'd ever worked at that command and no
| one left that day, even those from the previous night shift. The
| fact that no one, even our CO, had any idea what was going
| on...that the military was in the dark, was such an unnerving
| feeling.
| y53y wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| aceazzameen wrote:
| Your LCPO is a good person.
| justinzollars wrote:
| This website is a really good resource. The thing I remember from
| that day, I was 18, was that every channel on cable tv cut over
| to news: MTV, VH1, History Channel, every channel. cnn.com
| wouldn't load because it was being ddosed by all of the requests.
| zuppy wrote:
| i remember all the news websites switched to simple plain html
| pages for a while, as their sites couldn't handle the traffic.
| i still have a memory of a picture that i couldn't find again:
| there was a never ending line of ambulances waiting, one behind
| another.
| w45hljlk wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| w54363u6 wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| bdcravens wrote:
| > cnn.com wouldn't load because it was being ddosed by all of
| the requests
|
| Slashdot was one of the few sites that was able to stay up
| during that time, and it was struggling. Later in the day, CNN
| ripped out all their HTML, and put up a super simple design to
| optimize for staying up
| tpmx wrote:
| Google quite quickly put up links to manually cached pages
| from e.g. CNN directly on the google.com start page.
|
| https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/download/89.
| ..
| cmmiecock wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| lunchboxes wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So
| Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| on this day several years ago, one of my mom's friends was on her
| way home when a random white asshole rolled down his windshield
| and screamed "Iranian bitch" at her. She was terrified and came
| to our house. My sister was convinced that they were going to
| start rounding us up. My dad put up a patriotic flag, not out fo
| patriotism, but out of fear of retaliation by people who didn't
| think we were patriotic enough. None of us are Iranian or middle
| eastern but given the climate, everyone that even looked like
| they could be from that region were terrified.
|
| Fun times, I think its a reason I generally like to stay outside
| the united states these days.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Unfortunately these types of people are everywhere. My Grandma
| grew up on an island of 100 and half were farmers, half were
| fishers. She was on the fishing side and wasn't supposed to
| even dare talk to the lower cast farmers...
| scotty79 wrote:
| My life partner died on 9/11. Not that 9/11. Two years ago.
| Because of a brain tumor.
|
| That personal 9/11 will always overshadow for me the one that
| this site is about. The one that from my point of view was a kind
| of natural disaster caused by fifth elemental force, the force of
| human stupidity. The one that triggered secondary wave of human
| stupidity that toppled any illusion that USA is a righteous and
| effective country that anyone could still have. Terrorists really
| did hurt USA on 9/11 but 99% of the ultimate damage was self
| inflicted.
| cblconfederate wrote:
| Almost everyone remembers what they were doing when the events
| happened, a Flashbulb Memory.
|
| There's actually research on the specific memories of 9/11 :
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925254/
|
| Anyone remember what they were doing the next day at the same
| time?
| rcpt wrote:
| In 2001 websites worked better than that.
| montenegrohugo wrote:
| Super small feedback: there's a typo on the landing page.
|
| synchronized instead of syncrhonized
| nyx wrote:
| To fix the broken timestamp in the upper right, open your JS
| console and set timeZone.diff equal to your negative UTC offset.
|
| I'm in US Pacific Time, so I ran timeZone.diff =
| 8
| codeulike wrote:
| Metafilter was around back then, I wont link to it but its pretty
| easy to find the metafilter thread from that day, its a way of
| sensing the confusion that I remember from that day as events
| unfolded. Reading through it I was suprised to see that the US
| was sending cruise missiles into Afghanistan within about 9
| hours.
| mynameishere wrote:
| https://www.metafilter.com/10034/Plane-crashes-in-to-the-wor...
|
| Just to save people time and Metafilter's servers possible
| wear-and-tear.
| amznthrowaway5 wrote:
| Why does 9/11 matter so much but not the many far more horrible
| atrocities that the US regularly supports or commits (and that
| 9/11 was partly a response to). Clearly some lives are considered
| worth far more than others.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| I think it's because the USA was an incredibly safe country,
| attacked seemingly out of nowhere (as far as the public was
| concerned, at least) with ramifications that impacted every
| country in the world.
|
| Covid does about a 9/11 every two days, but covid isn't
| intentional. Bombs go off and kill innocent people all over the
| world, but none of them kill this many people in a country
| perceived safe.
|
| The overreaction that followed the attack on the towers helped
| shape the mess in the middle east. It impacted public
| perception on NATO. It started more government conspiracies
| theories than any other event I can think of.
|
| If you're living somewhere outside the West or the Middle East,
| then 9/11 probably has very little significance in your daily
| life. Still, its impact on worldwide politics have shaped the
| world we live in today.
|
| It's the same reason we still see the Tiananmen Square massacre
| in the news. 3000 people died, but even though they were people
| in a remote, (then) poor country that barely anyone outside
| China had any personal reason to care about, the event changed
| people's views all around the world.
| w45hljlk wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| randunel wrote:
| Welcome to the no-fly list, even on a throwaway.
| mannanj wrote:
| Unpopular question, how did a plane and jet fuel burn down a
| steel reinforced building?
|
| I believe in the entire history of buildings built as the world
| trade centers were, the only ones ever that burned down and
| collapse are these. The only way as civil engineers have
| explained it to me, that the buildings structural qualities could
| have been compromised, are with additional heat sources besides a
| jet and jet fuel. I'd love a civil engineer in this thread to
| ELI5 this for me.
| mjmsmith wrote:
| > I believe in the entire history of buildings built as the
| world trade centers were, the only ones ever that burned down
| and collapse are these.
|
| How many of the other buildings were struck head-on by fully
| loaded 767s traveling at 400+ mph? Is there any real-world
| example to compare?
| Bob67568584 wrote:
| WTC Building 7 was _not_ hit by a plane, yet it somehow
| spontaneously collapsed in a very curious way
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZiMG84hws0
|
| EDIT: Of course, merely stating a plain objective fact, that
| doesn't challenge any narratives or make any controversial
| claims whatsoever, with a link to an AP archive video, will
| be downvoted negative within minutes. You are not allowed to
| even look at WTC7 collapsing. Don't even think about looking
| at it!
| deadbunny wrote:
| https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/42
| 7...
| Bob67568584 wrote:
| It's quite boringly predictable that someone would
| immediately link to a conspiracy debunking article. I
| have not mentioned anything whatsoever about a conspiracy
| theory. I merely stated that it is "curious", which it
| very much objectively is, no matter what else you choose
| to believe about the event.
|
| Also interesting is that if you actually read the
| official report that your link references, it does not
| provide a detailed explanation of how the WTC7 building
| actually collapsed. The event remains extremely curious
| 20 years later.
|
| Edit: In response to the reply below:
|
| Yes they basically say "it collapsed because the fire was
| hot and caused a critical column to collapse". It's a
| childish level of explanation, not rigorous and
| scientific. It says nothing about how such a thing could
| occur. I've studied mathematics, physics, engineering at
| university up to Bachelors level and to me this is a very
| amateurish childish level of analysis. The report is
| fluffed up with many pages of serious important looking
| official boilerplate, surrounding this one paragraph that
| basically says nothing. It's a tautology. No rigorous
| analysis in this report. That in itself is extremely
| curious to me.
| deadbunny wrote:
| The article literally describes what cause the building
| to collapse.
|
| > After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on
| Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns
| supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a
| cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no
| longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid
| succession of structural failures that moved from east to
| west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior
| columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive
| collapse"--that is, local damage that spreads from one
| structural element to another, eventually resulting in
| the collapse of the entire structure.
|
| Perhaps read more than the headline and you would not
| think it so "curious".
| Bob67568584 wrote:
| Yes they basically say "it collapsed because the fire was
| hot and caused a critical column to collapse". It's a
| childish level of explanation, not rigorous and
| scientific. It says nothing about how such a thing could
| occur. I've studied mathematics, physics, engineering at
| university up to Bachelors level and to me this is a very
| amateurish childish level of analysis. The report is
| fluffed up with many pages of serious important looking
| official boilerplate, surrounding this one paragraph that
| basically says nothing. It's a tautology. No rigorous
| analysis in this report. That in itself is extremely
| curious to me.
| Crespyl wrote:
| > It's quite boringly predictable that someone would
| immediately link to a conspiracy debunking article.
|
| It's almost as if the only people still going on about
| "interesting questions" regarding the destruction of the
| WTC buildings after two decades of analysis and reports
| are burner-account conspiracy theorists more interested
| in fantastic cover-ups than in the ugly and "boring"
| truth.
|
| It should indeed be no surprise that asking questions
| like a conspiracy theorist gets you directed to
| conspiracy theorist answers.
| Bob67568584 wrote:
| I'm not a conspiracy theorist and haven't put forward any
| conspiracy theories. I am intellectually curious.
| Apparently you have some kind of religious aversion to
| curiosity.
| neogodless wrote:
| This is a pretty simple layman's terms explanation, and it was
| also easy to find via Google.com.
|
| https://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112....
| mannanj wrote:
| Thank you. I'll check it out shortly.
| mannanj wrote:
| This is a very long and lengthy explanation, still requiring
| much technical know how. Thank you for the explanation, but
| Still seeking an ELI5.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Unpopular question, how did a plane and jet fuel burn down a
| steel reinforced building?
|
| That's the germ of a bunch of 20 year old paranoid conspiracy
| theories, basically the 2001 version of COVID denialism.
|
| If you're asking a genuine question, there are decades-old
| engineering analyses and all kind of layman's translations of
| them that explain it. I'm sure they can be easily Googled.
| mannanj wrote:
| None of them ELI5, as I've originally asked. I'd love an ELI5
| perspective. Thank you.
| _game_of_life wrote:
| This is the best guide I've found:
|
| https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a50/1230517/
|
| Goes into depth debunking most of the conspiracies I've
| heard of.
|
| My best ELI5 for the one you are asking about:
|
| Does a bar of chocolate need to melt completely into a
| puddle of liquid before it changes shape and becomes
| softer?
|
| Of course not. The chocolate bar will become mushy and
| deform before it becomes a liquid.
|
| Jet fuel burns at 800 - 1500 F, whereas steel melts at
| 2750.
|
| But just like chocolate on a warm day, it loses its
| strength at much lower temperatures. By 1500 degrees steel
| is at less than half of its strength.
|
| Have you ever wondered how ancient civilizations managed to
| melt metals, or create ceramics? After all, they didn't
| have jet fuel yet!
|
| Well, when some kilns use wood as a fuel source, they can
| burn at up to 2000 F! Wow! Isn't combustion neat?
|
| The WTC was full of flammable materials like wood, plastic,
| rubber, and cloth. Jet fuel burns at 1500, but just like a
| wood kiln, other sources of combustion can make things much
| hotter.
|
| TL;DR - You don't need to heat something to the point of
| being a puddle of liquid to weaken it.
| mannanj wrote:
| This was a great explanation. Thank you very much!
| deadbunny wrote:
| ELI5: While jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel
| you don't need to melt it to weaken it.
| mannanj wrote:
| Sucks that my question was downvoted, as this was such a
| great response and will now be buried.
| leesalminen wrote:
| 9/11 was my birthday, and I was just outside of NYC in school
| that day.
|
| I was in math class. The phone in the classroom rang and my
| teacher turned on the radio (1010 WINS) immediately. After
| hearing what had happened she broke down in tears because her
| husband worked in WTC. My parents worked in NYC (as did most of
| my classmates' parents) and was very concerned.
|
| The school district evacuated the elementary schools to the gym
| at the middle school because our town had a major dam and there
| were concerns that could be attacked too, which would've flooded
| the low-lying areas where the elementary schools are. Eventually,
| school was dismissed and I ended up at my neighbor's house. Her
| husband was a FDNY Captain.
|
| So many people I know died or were permanently harmed (physically
| or mentally) that day.
|
| While nearly every second of that day is permanently etched into
| my brain, there's one day that's even more vivid. My FDNY Captain
| neighbor took me to ground zero in early November 2001. I'll
| never, ever forget the smell of burning flesh and the hundreds of
| firefighters using rakes looking for human remains. He told me to
| never forget, and I never will.
| dirtyfuackers wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| irrational wrote:
| Thanks for writing this. It is good to hear the experience of
| someone that was close by. I live clear on the other side of
| the country (and did on 9/11 too). I didn't know anyone that
| died that day, and to the best of my knowledge I've never met
| anyone who lost someone that day either. So it is good for
| those of you who did experience it to write about it since it
| is so easy for people like me to be no more affected by it than
| any other historic event that is far removed.
| vmception wrote:
| Oh yeah I forgot about all the confusion on what else would be
| attacked!
|
| People should talk about that more. Every single piece of
| infrastructure in the whole country was on people's minds and
| locked down!
|
| Is there a documentary about that? There is so much possibility
| for an "isolation thriller" where people's concerns in their
| small towns are more the focus than the outcome of what
| happened by the time the dust settled.
| kristiandupont wrote:
| I recall a big anthrax scare in the weeks following. Lots of
| people were sending white powder to official addresses.
| vmception wrote:
| and the DC Sniper! if you were in that area
|
| Man that time period must have been so much harder for
| adults than the teenagers at the time
| slapfrog wrote:
| > _Lots of people were sending white powder to official
| addresses._
|
| It turned out that anthrax came from a government lab, and
| was supposedly sent by a single rogue employee... though
| doubts linger.
|
| There were some hoaxes and bogus scares too though of
| course. One of my classmates almost got suspended for
| having foot powder in his gym bag.. thankfully cooler heads
| prevailed when school officials realized the kid had
| athletes foot and thought to doubt how a teenage boy could
| have plausibly procured weaponized anthrax spores in the
| first place. But yes, the hysteria was palpable.
| vmception wrote:
| The 21st century version of the White House would probably
| look so awesome, if, you know, the thing happened
| walshemj wrote:
| Even outside the US - there was some of this.
|
| I was in Brighton Conference Centre (Uk) where Tony Blair was
| due to give a very heavily trailed speech.
|
| After Tower one got hit we all went out of the main
| auditorium - I then realized I had stupidly left my bag
| unattended and had to go back and retrieve it.
|
| After tower two got hit a lot of us started to think what if
| they have a plane targeting Tony and this building - though
| its a grim thing to say the RAF QRA where armed
| justinzollars wrote:
| You get a sense of that feeling, from watching the various tv
| stations on this thread. I had the radio on too, and you get
| a real sense of the total confusion of that day.
| [deleted]
| sfblah wrote:
| I've never seen this site before, but I noticed that it appears
| to be questioning the official timeline and story at various
| points. For example, it indicates that a janitor heard an
| explosion first from the basement, not from above. I noticed a
| few other elements like this as well.
| diskzero wrote:
| Watching the footage on this site reminds me of how I watched the
| events unfold on 9/11. I was at work at Apple in IL2 (Building 2
| of the Infinite Loop campus.) People started getting calls on
| their desk phones and co-workers coming in started to share the
| news. An email came from Steve Jobs which I can't remember the
| exact contents of. One thing the email did have, was a link that
| was a live video news stream of the events unfolding.
|
| The campus entered a type of lock-down. The gates to the parking
| garages were closed, the front-doors to the building were locked
| and security blocked the entrances to the campus with their
| vehicles. At the time, work was sort of my family so I didn't
| consider that some people probably wanted to leave right away to
| be with their loved ones. I assume they were able to do so with
| some effort.
|
| Things obviously changed in the world that day. At Apple, the
| underground gates to the garages were always closed and you had
| to badge in. Security personnel were posted in the lobbies and
| badging in and "tailgating" were taken very seriously. The doors
| to the inner campus were now locked and you had to badge in and
| out. These were all really minor things, but it made you realize
| that things were no longer going to be the same as before.
| acwan93 wrote:
| How much of Apple's current security measures were a result of
| 9/11? The parking garage, tailgating, and badging everywhere i
| always thought were due to Apple's culture of secrecy.
| diskzero wrote:
| Apple's culture of secrecy used to be to just not talk about
| what you were working on and don't talk about vapor projects.
| There was a big thrill to keep things secret for MacWorld,
| WWDC, whatever. Things changed, social media and various
| websites created motivation for people to get whatever small
| satisfaction you get when you leak.
|
| There was a big change after 9/11 of the overall security
| posture. Internal security measures kept ramping up year
| after year as people started leaking. You used to be able to
| walk pretty much unhindered through all the buildings. Some
| lab areas would be locked, but things were open in general.
|
| I never understood the leakers. They were usually caught and
| fired.
| rejectedandsad wrote:
| > I was at work at Apple in IL2 (Building 2 of the Infinite
| Loop campus.)
|
| You were at work at 6-7AM?
| diskzero wrote:
| Yes, I was that day. And I had probably been there since 6:00
| am the previous day. Pulling multiple all-nighters on various
| "super important" projects was typical for me and others. In
| retrospect, my advice is not to do such things, but it seemed
| like a good idea at the time.
|
| The email and all the security events happened right after
| the second plane hit, which seemed like it was closer to
| normal start of day hours.
| rejectedandsad wrote:
| Fair, 2001 was a pivot point for Apple's history too.
| dharmab wrote:
| Wayback machine for some web news of the day:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20010911230123/http://www.nytime...
|
| http://web.archive.org/web/20010911204733/http://www2.cnn.co...
| SilasX wrote:
| I lost the link, and couldn't easily find it from Wayback, but
| radio talk show host Neal Boortz would post his program notes
| at like 7am eastern, and he had already posted by then that
| "the big news of the day is Michael Jordan's announcement of
| returning to the NBA".
|
| Naturally, he made a ton of updates to the page after the
| attack, but left that bit and it was kind of funny to see that
| over the 9/11 news.
| w45hljlk wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| sonicggg wrote:
| It's crazy how influential this event would be on years to come.
| It has this huge cascade of other events directly affected by it,
| and it caused America to dump >1 trillion dollars on a compete
| wasteland of a country. The US had this urge to do something
| about it, but not sure what exactly. There were a lot of
| seemingly irrational policies following 9/11.
|
| I still can't believe Bin Laden has not been named the Times
| Person of the Year at the end of 2001.
| skytreader wrote:
| At the risk of diluting the discussion here, do we know where
| they got the "TV Tuner" footage? I've been tuned to a channel
| with "WJLA" at the upper left (I think, aka "ABC 7"---I don't
| know I'm not American) for some time now; it started with a clip
| that is related to the 9/11 attacks but after heaps of ads I'm
| now watching relatively mundane news (traffic and weather
| updates, anyone?).
|
| On one hand it's just impressive to me that they have this
| footage and it made my curiosity itch. On the other hand, a
| project like this can only gain from having verifiable sources.
| So do we know how/where they got all these footage?
| colmvp wrote:
| Really fascinating project. It sent a chill down my spine as I
| suddenly recalled being in school, both because of the videos as
| well as the OS (we used Macs in art/design class). This was
| before streaming and smartphones were around so the only way we
| could see what was happening was by going into classrooms with
| TV's hooked up. I don't think we had access to CNN but we
| probably watched some American channel. I felt like the world was
| going to enter a third World War, what with the immediate
| connection to Pearl Harbor. It was impossible to continue doing
| school work that day.
| merdadicapra wrote:
| > This was before streaming
|
| I was in my office 20 years ago watching the streaming from the
| website of an Italian newspaper that was broadcasting the CNN
| news channel.
|
| Streaming was already a thing in 2001.
| timothevs wrote:
| If anyone is confused about the BBC not syncing up with the other
| news coverage, it seems like the creators did not take the time
| difference into account. You will need to get to 13:59 GMT.
|
| On a personal note, that's the channel I was watching on that day
| 20 years ago. Watching the exact same coverage again is just ...
| unsettling.
| vesinisa wrote:
| Thanks. Yes, as European this was my source as well. I believe
| I witnessed at least the collapse of the first tower live on
| BBC World.
| csomar wrote:
| I was confused for a second. BBC was talking about the "migrant
| crisis" when the second plane hit.
| lmilcin wrote:
| @dang, can we get the obvious spam crap removed somehow? Maybe
| instantly hide or at least minimize dead content?
|
| Or maybe restrict discussion to people who get at least some
| karma?
| rastafang wrote:
| The default is to hide dead content... i.e.: showdead: NO...
| you must have changed the settings along the way
| lmilcin wrote:
| Oh, thanks!
| radycov wrote:
| Cool how about a tribute to the family of 10 killed (7 children)
| by a reaper drone along with every one of hthe 700,000 afghans
| killed by the petrdollar military industrial complex, or is their
| skin too dark to be included in the narrative?
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-...
| jedberg wrote:
| I had to stop watching this when it caught up to the part I saw
| live. I live on the west coast, so I was sleeping when the first
| plane hit. My mom for some reason was still up from the night
| before and saw it on the news, so she called me and told me to
| turn on the TV.
|
| I watched the second plane hit live on CNN. I then spent the rest
| of the day on my couch watching CNN. My girlfriend was sent home
| from work around noon and came to join me.
|
| I remember the confusion as to what happened and no one knew if
| anything else would blow up.
|
| But the other day I remember just as clearly was September 14th,
| 2001, because I flew on an airplane that day.
|
| The Jewish Holidays were starting on Monday, and my dad and I
| were flying home together from the Bay Area to LA, and had a
| flight from Oakland to Burbank. We were told to get there four
| hours before our flight due to enhanced security, so we did.
|
| The airport was empty. Every airline was offering full refunds to
| anyone who was scared to fly, and most people took them up on it.
| My dad and I figured a one hour flight within California probably
| wasn't going to be a target and decided to risk it.
|
| There were national guardsmen all over the airport open-carrying
| rifles and handguns. After the metal detectors we had to do a
| full pat-down and have all of our carry on luggage fully
| inspected. But since the airport was nearly empty, we were
| through all of the security in about 10 minutes.
|
| So we walked up to the airline counter to check in for our flight
| (back when you still had to check in in-person at the counter)
| and asked them if we could take an earlier flight. There happen
| to be one leaving in 15 minutes, and the lady thanked us for
| flying that day and put us on the flight. It was so empty we each
| had a row to ourselves.
|
| Sept 14th, 2001. The best airport/flying experience I've ever had
| in my life.
| perryizgr8 wrote:
| I was in my room, studying for some school test. My parents used
| to let me study, while they watched TV after dinner. That night
| they called me and showed the news to me. I recall it was CNN
| they were tuned into, and the second plane hit the tower right in
| front of my eyes.
| kgeist wrote:
| I was in middle school in Russia back then. I remember our
| teacher dedicated a whole hour to watching and discussing the
| news. It resonated because Russia was also experiencing acts of
| terror by Muslim fundamentalists. It was way before USA and
| Russia became enemies again. Two months later Putin would visit
| Bush's ranch.
| ScaryBashGhost wrote:
| For anyone who doesn't consider themselves a conspiracy theorist,
| but who still wonders how the hell 9/11 could've possibly
| happened, I'd highly recommend the 2011 podcast episode "Who Is
| Rich Blee?" [1] and the documentary "9/11: Press for Truth" [2],
| both by Ray Nowosielski and John Duffy. They're both _critical_
| (as in thinking) without being unhinged -- no inside job shit, no
| controlled demolition stuff, no "plane was fake". Just a close
| look at the years and months leading up to 9/11, with some
| terrific interviews with major players (Richard Clarke, Bush's
| Counter-Terrorism "Czar"; Mark Rossini, the FBI agent assigned to
| the CIA's Bin Laden Issue Station who was prevented by the CIA
| from notifying the FBI that 2 of the 9/11 hijackers had multiple
| entry visas to the US and were planning to travel there).
|
| The documentary's particularly interesting, as it follows the
| efforts of four New Jersey women who lost their husbands in the
| World Trade Center as they struggle to figure out what happened
| that day. I hadn't realized that a "9/11 Commission" hadn't been
| planned or even wanted by people in Washington, and that the
| victims' families had to make a stink to get one created.
|
| [1] https://www.doubleasteriskmedia.com/rich-blee-podcast [2]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhQXKJCJ5Q
|
| [2] https://youtu.be/9KhQXKJCJ5Q
| nyolfen wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/c/WTCFOIAVideos
| blamazon wrote:
| ^ since the commenter didn't explain what this is:
|
| Upscaled versions of dozens of angles of 9/11 footage that were
| FOIA'd out of the NIST investigation into the buildings'
| collapse.
|
| A while ago I went on a binge and watched all of them. If
| you've only seen footage from news, mainstream documentaries,
| even at the 9/11 museum in NYC, there's things you haven't
| seen, awful terrible things, in a level of video quality that
| leaves no ambiguity for what you're seeing.
|
| Horrifying stuff, I don't recommend it if you don't want the
| images to stick in your brain forever.
| eatsut wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| dragontamer wrote:
| > Horrifying stuff, I don't recommend it if you don't want
| the images to stick in your brain forever.
|
| Except with all the 9/11 truthers, its helpful to have those
| images memorized.
|
| The way the towers fall, how the planes hit, everything. The
| "truthers" will suggest alternative-truths, but if you
| remember the images perfectly, you'll quickly find holes in
| their arguments.
| reginold wrote:
| Stuff like this makes me wonder if in the future there are entire
| planets where life is simulated virtually. "Live through the 90s"
| planet.
|
| Would be interesting to have an entire website like this where
| you can tune to any day and hear the news. And eventually more
| than just media.
| peterlk wrote:
| Sounds like you should read Hyperion! Such a good series...
| [deleted]
| kafkaIncarnate wrote:
| > Would be interesting to have an entire website like this
| where you can tune to any day and hear the news. And eventually
| more than just media.
|
| When you mix archive.org Wayback Machine and the back footage
| of many of the news networks have with their giant software
| platforms, I'm sure that most news editing rooms are already
| like this. Probably just a matter of time/infrastructure until
| we all get a chance to access such things, assuming we don't
| fall to entropic decay.
|
| I think you'd have to solve the "unified theory" physics
| equation before you could predict where all particles were in
| the past, though. So like rewinding and seeing where I am right
| now and what is happening in my life (or yours). That one I
| personally am not entirely sure can be accomplished.
|
| There is a Babylon 5 episode about this, though, in season 5.
| Takes place millions of years in the future.
| sharkweek wrote:
| I sometimes forget how surreal that day was. Was in high school
| at the time and sort of at "that age" where the world was still
| pretty small and revolved around me.
|
| Mom waking me up to say "you need to watch this," with the TV on
| and both towers are on fire. The morning variety newscasters
| breaking their household familiarity speaking in a frightening
| shock that was so out of character.
|
| Still went to school that day and there was a big assembly and
| then we sort of carried on as normal through motions. I remember
| every week on Tuesday we had to turn in an analysis of a world
| event for one of our classes and mine suddenly felt so
| insignificant compared to the attacks (kinda wish I remember what
| I had written).
|
| I think the pandemic has far more historical significance but
| nothing for me will feel more visceral than 9/11. I appreciate
| this is likely a very _American_ -centric perspective but it's
| how I feel.
| dharmab wrote:
| There are very few days in history where so much changes in a
| single day. There's a very clear "before and after".
|
| In my opinion, the 1990s began on Nov 9 1989 and ended on Sep
| 11 2001.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Yes. I remember very well President Bush saying these attacks
| will not change America. I wish I could find a quote.
|
| One of the things it changed dramatically was air travel.
| Remember meeting family/friends at their arrival gate as they
| walked off the plane? Remember getting through "security" in
| a few minutes because the lines moved so fast?
|
| In the 1980s and early 1990s, my father routinely
| disassembled pistols and put them in his checked luggage so
| he could target shoot at his destinations. Imagine doing that
| today.
| jakebasile wrote:
| You can still check firearms for air travel. It's actually
| a great way to ensure your bag doesn't get lost.
|
| You have to go to the ticket agent, and say I need to check
| a firearm. There's a little red ticket form you fill out
| and place on your bag. Then you take it to a special drop
| off. It has to be in a locked hard case that only you can
| open.
|
| See also: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-
| and-ammunit...
| [deleted]
| kjellsbells wrote:
| The historian Eric Hobsbawm once wrote that the 19th century
| didn't end until the cataclysm of 1914, and that the 20th
| finished early with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989.
| I think 1990-2001 was an innocent decade and the 21st century
| started on 9/11.
| pbourke wrote:
| > I think the pandemic has far more historical significance
|
| I'm not sure about that. Without 9/11, there would be no wars,
| perhaps no Obama, etc. It altered the arc of history in a
| profound way.
|
| The recent Frontline episode "America after 9/11"[0] draws a
| through-line from 9/11 to the events of Jan 6 at the U.S.
| Capitol.
|
| [0] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/america-after-9-11/
| fit2rule wrote:
| America was fighting its heinous illegal wars prior to 9/11.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| It's a little disingenuous to use 20 years of history to say
| it's a more significant event and then using the follow on
| results. In another 18.5 years, people could be talking about
| how the pandemic triggered the second US Civil War, or led to
| a complete reimagination of US race relations, or ushered in
| a communist takeover or something.
| mannanj wrote:
| How are you supposed to figure out if an event is
| significant or not without looking at its historical
| significance on the years to come?
| Sebb767 wrote:
| I think this was exactly the point, you can't say one
| event was large due to the aftershock if the second event
| isn't even over (and therefore has its history yet to be
| written).
| rebuilder wrote:
| I'm not sure at all the pandemic is going to be more
| significant historically. The 9/11 attacks did what Al-Qaeda
| intended them to - got the USA mired in an expensive,
| unwinnable war, which ultimately broke the US will to fight and
| seems to have resulted in a major reconfiguration of US foreign
| policy.
| teawrecks wrote:
| I believe a lot of the phenomena we see today, rampant
| conspiracies, misinformation, distrust in govt, political
| divisiveness, willingness to support a demagogue, rise in
| nationalism and domestic terrorism, can all be linked back to
| 9/11.
|
| The goal of the attack was to strike fear into the hearts of
| Americans on a level that we simply couldn't comprehend, a
| lasting fear that fundamentally changes our society, a fear
| that individuals in the war-torn middle east had already
| lived with for decades up to that point. And I think it's
| clear that they accomplished their goal. Unfortunately, I
| also think it's clear we haven't seen the end of it.
| bellyfullofbac wrote:
| All those things you write in the 1st paragraph, I wonder
| if it's 9/11 or the continued spread of Internet access.
| Previously if you thought the earth was flat, your friends
| in school or work would laugh at you. Nowadays you can
| google anything and find a community totally into that
| idea, and they are indeed communities because they'll
| quickly indoctrinate that the rest of society/big
| government/the secret elite cabal are prosecuting them for
| their beliefs, so they'd have to support each other..
| teawrecks wrote:
| Oh yes, definitely the internet plays a huge roll in the
| world we have today, probably a bigger roll than 9/11.
| Humanity has seen and adapted to large scale tragedies
| before, but this is the first time we've had the
| internet. But of all the variables, 9/11 is a big one in
| the US. It also showed the media and advertisers how much
| more money there was to be made from these events. Ever
| since 9/11 the news media has been hard at work
| developing new ways to milk sensationalism junkies the
| same way that mobile companies milk gaming addiction
| whales.
| telesilla wrote:
| Let's wait a while. The long term effects of the pandemic are
| yet to set in.
| SilasX wrote:
| There's the joke that you can say the same thing about the
| French Revolution ("too early to tell").
| rebuilder wrote:
| I see your point, but I have a hard time imagining how, 20
| years down the line, we could point to the SARS-COV2
| pandemic as a principal cause of historic change the way
| the 9/11 attacks were. Contributing factor? Sure, I'm sure
| it'll have all kinds of downstream effects.
| anonfornoreason wrote:
| Just imagine what a whole generation of kids will grow up
| to be like as a result of the social changes that have
| played out directly due to the pandemic. Definitely a
| large inflection point. Maybe the changes will be subtler
| but I would be shocked if we didn't have noticeable,
| analyzable changes to the course of history based off
| that alone.
| ls612 wrote:
| Imagine masks, distancing restrictions, etc becoming the
| knee jerk response every year there's a bad flu scare or
| something like the Ebola cases in 2014 happens. This
| pandemic will be remembered not for the virus but for the
| massive and permanent social changes it brought to the
| west.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| Also: Home office, redistribution of wealth, climate
| impact and not to forget the financial impact. Plus
| possible long covid problems in a large share of people.
| There's a lot we will 'enjoy' for a long time.
| farmerstan wrote:
| This.
|
| Al qaeda won. They destroyed the way of American life before
| 9-11. We are a different country now. So much government
| control over the last 20 years because of the 9-11 like TSA,
| Patriot act, massive government surveillance all in the name
| of "Homeland Security".
|
| Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers exist precisely because of
| 9-11. The distrust from all of the secret government acts is
| only part of the equation.
|
| The trillions funneled into the military complex has starved
| the education system. We have literally produced idiots
| across the US because of a horrible educational system. They
| can't think critically because they don't have to. So 20
| years of this, and you have a large percentage of the
| population that are literally stupid and can't think
| critically. They would rather die than take a vaccine or wear
| a mask. This is what happens when you spend money on the
| military and illegal wars than the education of your
| population.
|
| The pandemic is terrible. But 9-11 destroyed the US and put
| us on a horrible path that we may never recover from.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. What you're
| saying is accurate. I don't think the terrorists had the
| foresight to predict this kind of fallout from 9/11, but it
| has certainly happened none the less.
| rebuilder wrote:
| Bin-laden directly stated Al-Qaeda's goal was to bankrupt
| the USA. [1] Now that's not what literally happened
| obviously, but adjusting for propaganda hyperbole and
| considering he went on to elaborate that they intend to
| do to the USA what they did to the Soviets - make the war
| too costly to be worth fighting - it seems their strategy
| panned out pretty well.
|
| Of course, I don't know that they could have predicted
| the US invasion of Iraq, for example. On the one hand,
| Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but OTOH Al-Qaeda might
| have foreseen that the US leadership would not let a good
| crisis go to waste.
|
| Maybe the main plan was just to fight in Afghanistan,
| where they know they can carry out guerilla warfare
| indefinitely, and whatever else shakes out is probably
| going to play into Al-Qaeda's pocket anyway.
|
| Really the main victory Al-Qaeda and other Islamist
| terror groups have won is being able to frame the
| discourse around their atrocities as Islamic terror. It
| creates tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims, which
| leads to oppression of Muslims, which increases
| recruitment. In this dynamic, the worse the terror groups
| are, the more adherents they gain.
|
| 1: https://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binlade
| n.tape...
| fighterpilot wrote:
| A lot of these 'idiots' that you're talking about were
| educated prior to 9-11, so it's not obvious to me that 9-11
| had the particular causal relevance that you're suggesting
| (at least insofar as educational quality).
| tamaharbor wrote:
| Al Qaeda won the first time they made me take my shoes off
| at the airport.
| dxdenton wrote:
| Your first paragraph laments the expansion of government
| control and surveillance triggered by 9/11 (which I agree
| with), but in your next, you use pejoratives to identify
| people who choose not to get a vaccine or engage in hygiene
| theater. How would you classify the bully tactics being
| used by the current administration to coerce citizens into
| getting a vaccine? This is yet another example of
| government control and overreach. In this case, gov't is
| violating personal health (rather than privacy), and the
| justification is "public health" instead of "homeland
| security".
|
| > Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers exist precisely because of
| 9-11.
|
| This statement is non-sense. I'm old enough to remember
| 9/11. I lived closed enough to watch the smoke rising from
| the towers. I assure you, my choice to not get the C19
| vaccine (and refusal to wear a mask) have nothing to do
| with the events of 9/11.
|
| The term "anti-vaxxer" is derogatory, and is being used as
| a demeaning caricature. I don't fit your stereotype. I am
| not getting the C19 vaccine. That does not mean I am
| against all vaccinations. A person can believe in the
| effectiveness of vaccines, and decide against getting THIS
| vaccine (imagine that). Terms like "anti-vaxxer" are used
| to demonize those (such as myself) who have decided not to
| get the C19 vaccine. I guess classifying people as "anti-
| vaxxer" helps people like you justify calling them
| "literally stupid."
|
| > We have literally produced idiots across the US because
| of a horrible educational system. They can't think
| critically because they don't have to. So 20 years of this,
| and you have a large percentage of the population that are
| literally stupid and can't think critically.
|
| I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. The irony is
| that, based on your comments, you'd consider me "literally
| stupid", and I would say your critical thinking are
| severely lacking.
|
| > They would rather die than take a vaccine or wear a mask.
|
| I can assure you that if contracting COVID-19 meant certain
| death, the government would not have to spend millions on
| propaganda to convince people to get the C19 vaccine.
| Contracting C19 does not imply certain death: I know this
| first-hand, anecdotally, and it is backed by statistics
| published by the CDC (for whatever those are worth these
| days). In other words, for the overwhelming majority of the
| population C19 is no worse than the flu. For those with
| pre-existing health conditions, the risks are greater and
| the vaccine is a godsend. I won't address the mask fallacy.
| If you want to wear a mask, by all means. I am not one to
| pull a binky out of a child's mouth -- whatever it takes to
| get people to get out and live their lives.
|
| The fact that you jump to the conclusion that "everyone who
| does not get vaccinated or wear a mask is stupid" does not
| reflect well on your critical thinking skills. As I've
| explained above, there are legitimate reasons for not
| getting the vaccine. Maybe a better approach is to give
| others the benefit of the doubt, and attempt to engage in
| meaningful conversation? We likely won't agree on
| everything, but maybe I'd convince you that people who
| decide against the C19 are not all "literally stupid".
| op00to wrote:
| To not take a vaccine that would save your life because
| the government told to you is exactly the type of stupid
| behavior I expect from stupid people.
| david_draco wrote:
| Anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, government mistrust are hardly
| unique to the last 20 years.
|
| What destroyed American life were Americans, being scared,
| thoughtless and not talking to each other, in the name of
| money, absolute security, patriotism and tribalism.
| SilasX wrote:
| > I think the pandemic has far more historical significance but
| nothing for me will feel more visceral than 9/11
|
| It's an interesting comparison, and one I make a lot. 9/11 was
| in your face, and a bunch of pre planned events were canceled.
| But that lasted about a week or a month (depending on the kind
| of event), and people could still gather in public and support
| each other.
|
| The pandemic was a much slower burn, but also denied us even
| the ability to gather and required much bigger changes to daily
| life.
| listenallyall wrote:
| The pandemic hasn't denied "us" anything... governments have
| mandated it, in many cases without scientific evidence, or in
| many others, in direct contradiction to it. Things cancelled
| in the wake of 9/11 were done organically, by the organizers,
| mostly out of respect, not because the government twisted
| their arm.
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| > I think the pandemic has far more historical significance but
| nothing for me will feel more visceral than 9/11. I appreciate
| this is likely a very American -centric perspective but it's
| how I feel.
|
| It's not as American-centric as you might think; I'm not from
| the US but after 9/11 and for several years, I had recurring
| nightmares about trying to escape from a building that got hit
| by a plane.
|
| I can't imagine what it was like for people closer to it.
| strenholme wrote:
| To get a sense of how our nation felt in the wake of the 9/11
| attacks, the mail column Jerry Pournelle (R.I.P.) had at the time
| gives a very good perspective:
| https://jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail170.h...
|
| "yes, we are at war. This is our generation's Pearl Harbor."
| post_break wrote:
| All I can think of is the people in Afghanistan when asked about
| 9/11 had never heard of it. We were attacked and then went after
| the wrong people.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| While that is certainly one of the narratives the deep state
| loves to be touted, it's simply not true. One of Bushes first
| actions as POTUS was to request a plan to attack the Taliban.
| The plan was written in June and was on his desk on Sep 4.
|
| We went after who the oligarchs who control our country wanted
| us to go after. The idea that it was a response to the attack
| was merely for keeping the public sedated and military/mercs
| fired up.
|
| Solving 9/11 solves the war on terror. (most people don't have
| the stomach for ugly truths though)
|
| Ask yourself, who trained the Mujaheddin in the first place?
| What foreign dignitary was allowed full access and use of
| Charlie Wilson's office?
| heavyset_go wrote:
| I lived just outside of NYC when this happened. I'll leave it to
| others to explain what that was like.
|
| What stuck with me was the eeriness of the serene skies after it
| happened. There are several international airports in the
| vicinity. There wasn't a plane in the sky afterwards, and the
| usual contrails were absent.
|
| I didn't see something like that happen again for about another
| 20 years until the first wave of COVID hit and essentially
| shutdown air transport.
| koboll wrote:
| Cool site, but the News Ticker is absolutely infested with
| debunked 9/11 truther "evidence". (Go to the point where the
| first plane hits and the point where each tower collapses, and
| you'll see what I mean.)
|
| The whole thing kinda seems like a sly attempt by a truther to
| indoctrinate schoolkids. A little distasteful.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| A lot of the "truther" nonsense came from the day of the attack
| when nobody really had any idea what the hell was happening. It
| wasn't immediately clear that a plane hit the first tower to
| cause the damage, it wasn't clear it was an attack and not an
| accident until the second plane hit, and it wasn't clear the
| planes alone caused the collapse for days at least. Hell, for
| like an hour the Pentagon attack was considered either a
| potentially unrelated fire or a missile attack.
|
| It's unfortunate that this at the moment reporting can
| reinforce conspiracy theories, but maintaining the uncertainty
| felt during the day provides a benefit. Much of the day was
| filled with shock and confusion, with everybody watching the
| news to try and figure out what was happening.
| tpmx wrote:
| I had to change my OS timezone to UTC-6 (Central US) to get the
| timestamps in the web app to match up.
| [deleted]
| fredoralive wrote:
| The BBC World feed seems completley out of sync as well, as if
| they used the BST times as if they were US east coast time, so
| it's like 5 hours behind everything else?
| mrweasel wrote:
| Mine is completely weird, it says it's after 3PM but the videos
| is about all sorts of random stuff.
| eatsut wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| macksd wrote:
| Thank you! I appear to be an hour out of sync and my OS is on
| Mountain Time
| Tenoke wrote:
| I was 9 and angry that they interupted my tv show to show news
| (adult stuff) from the other side of the world. 20 years later
| and I have a better understanding of the situation but in a lot
| of ways I think everyone reacted and keeps reacting just how the
| terrorists wanted.
|
| It's tragic but if this wasn't in America I likely wouldnt have
| even heard about the event nor would it be influencing my life
| this much later due to the ways others have reacted to it. I hope
| this doesn't read as disrespectful.
| [deleted]
| asib wrote:
| > It's tragic but if this wasn't in America I likely wouldnt
| have even heard about the event nor would it be influencing my
| life this much later due to the ways others have reacted to it.
| I hope this doesn't read as disrespectful.
|
| I definitely agree to an extent with the sentiment of this -
| there are numerous attacks in recent times across the world
| that have killed hundreds of people each and they generally
| receive very little coverage. However, I also think it perhaps
| downplays the significance of the WTC attack. 9/11 is still the
| deadliest terrorist attack in history by quite a significant
| margin according to [0]. I'd be surprised if a similar event in
| another country was not covered by world news outlets.
|
| [0]:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_viol...
| Tenoke wrote:
| >I'd be surprised if a similar event in another country was
| not covered by world news outlets.
|
| Well, I haven't really heard of the 2nd and 3rd one (though
| hard to compare) on the list and I doubt they've gotten even
| 1% of the coverage.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| Especially considering that the 3rd one happened in
| November 2020. It's not like this was years ago and might
| be forgotten; we all were around then.
| benatkin wrote:
| This is not unlike comparisons of 9/11 to the pandemic. The
| buildings (and NYC skyline) aren't as important as the lives
| that were lost, but it causes a different and more prolonged
| response. And it isn't just "look what those terrorists did",
| it's "I can't believe those buildings are gone".
|
| Saying they're gone reminds me of Mark Pilgrim's 410 Gone
| incident. It's analogous to me.
| cududa wrote:
| I was 10. My classroom "job" was to take the attendance to the
| office. No one was in the main office, I could hear them in the
| back room so I wandered back. I got there right as the first
| tower came down. The way all the adults were screaming, was
| clear it wasn't a movie. I stayed for a few minutes listening
| to the news anchor going over the events of the day before
| being sent back to class and told not to tell anyone.
|
| My fifth grade teacher, who I'm still friends with today, said
| she'd never seen a kid with that look. She eventually got me to
| tell her what happened. I guess I said something like "Americas
| being bombed. The big building in New York is on fire and the
| other one fell over and the pentagon blew up."
|
| I don't remember saying that, but I do remember how furious she
| was at me saying that was a horrible story to make up. We had
| TV's in each class, she was going to turn on the news to show
| me it wasn't true, begged her not to. She called the front
| office, couldn't get through (assuming they were still watching
| TV).
|
| She went on her computer, started crying. Composed herself,
| dropped whatever we were learning that day and she put on The
| Princess Bride - still can't enjoy that movie.
|
| She let me sit behind her desk and we'd attempt to refresh
| websites to get updates on what was happening, both of us
| occasionally crying.
|
| They didn't send us home for a few hours, but it's always been
| a weird feeling knowing that of all the 600+ kids in that
| school, I was the only one that knew what was happening, and
| only a handful of adults did, the rest going about their day
| without just sitting there knowing what was happening.
|
| Her and I are still friends to this day, that experience really
| bonded us. She'd suspected I was on the autism spectrum, my
| parents wouldn't get me evaluated, and school was pretty rough
| for me. I'd have been held back in multiple grades, possibly
| not even graduate if she hadn't gone to bat for me with every
| "problem" teacher I had at various schools in my district year
| after year, getting me put in "good" teachers for various
| subjects, getting me into advance classes even though my grades
| hadn't previously warranted it, etc.
|
| No idea where I'd be in life had I not wandered into the back
| office, and her and I had that experience.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Nice idea. I personally can't go back to that day via something
| like this but I appreciate the historical necessity for such
| things in the age of the internet and information.
| baxtr wrote:
| I remember sitting on the other side of Boston Harbour on the eve
| of September 11th, watching planes start and land while drinking
| a beer. I have often thought: please, god, take me back to that
| evening, let me call the police and tell them what will happen
| the next day. Then I think: they wouldn't have believed me anyway
| and arrested me instead.
|
| I will never forget the days of chaos that ensued. Boston is
| close to NYC. We knew back then that things would be very
| different from then on. For at least a year I would open news
| pages and except something terrible terrible until that fear
| faded slowly over time.
| 911inside wrote:
| 9/11 Was an inside job. So is covid.
| bdcravens wrote:
| I'm actually seeing events I missed in real time - I was up
| overnight working. I worked for Sabre HR at the time, and kept
| going up to the office to run a massive PDF generation process
| for our performance reviews. (It was a terribly leaky VB
| process). I didn't wake up until after it happened, so I was
| hearing about it on the drive into the office. We all went home
| before noon. Within days the software we were writing for bonuses
| etc was for naught, as our stock price was crushed (Sabre came
| out of American Airlines, focusing primarily on travel agency
| software and Travelocity). Within a month I was let go (I was a
| contractor)
| GongOfFour wrote:
| Were you in the Trophy Club offices then?
| eatsut wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| anonymousiam wrote:
| Was in a Beijing hotel and not sleepy so I turned on the TV. I
| could not believe what I was seeing and first thought it was a
| movie. After flipping through a few channels I realized it was
| real. I woke up my wife and told her that we were at war. We were
| stuck in China until flights resumed.
| danielovichdk wrote:
| Being old enough to remember this very vividly.
|
| Sitting in an office in Denmark - the world did change.
|
| All the political acts around terrorim that followed has been a
| sad experience.
|
| I never truly believed in these Arabs was clever enough to pull
| of this stunt, and the amount of missing evidence from that date
| is to much.
|
| Sad day to remember but even more sad that people still don't
| demand answers
| mannanj wrote:
| I agree. I believe these were similar operations with psyops
| incorporated like the CIAs mkultra, interventions and
| assassinations in Spanish countries where it instilled
| dictators to encourage democracy, and even the covid psyops it
| is participating in today.
| mannanj wrote:
| Examples: https://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret-
| cia-operati...
| mannanj wrote:
| Related to what's likely going on with COVID today:
|
| Operation Mockingbird was a bit of a two-pronged approach
| to dealing with the media: on the one hand, journalists
| were routinely employed by the CIA to develop intelligence
| and gather information, or to report on certain events in a
| way that portrayed the US favorably. On the other, there
| were actual plants within the media--paid off with bribes
| or even directly employed by the CIA--to feed propaganda to
| the American public
| [deleted]
| mastersummoner wrote:
| I went to Stuyvesant high school, and graduated in 2000. Stuy was
| a few blocks from the trade center, and I had friends who were
| still in high school that day. I knew people who saw the first
| plane fly in.
|
| Was a bad day. There was a part of me that felt a weird guilt for
| not being there. Like, as a lifelong New Yorker, the trauma was
| part of my birthright somehow, and being away for school made me
| feel strangely removed when I felt like I should be feeling it in
| my bones.
|
| My mother had PTSD for a good while afterward, and she lived way
| uptown from the trade center.
|
| Was a bad day.
| knaik94 wrote:
| I was in elementary school at the time 11 miles away, just across
| the river, in NJ. They really didn't want us to see the news so
| they took all of us into the main auditorium and had us just sit.
| A few of the parents of the other children worked in the city.
| They made it an early release day.
|
| One of my parents worked close by my school and my cousin lived
| close too. Her house had a clear line of sight to the towers with
| some binoculars. I remember seeing little black dots fall out of
| buildings and I remember wondering if they were chairs. I am
| older now and understand it was people. I missed the collapse of
| the first tower but saw the second fall through the binoculars.
|
| A lot of my classmates didn't show up for a few days. I didn't
| understand the gravity of what had happened until was quite a bit
| older.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Is there a way to download or mirror some, or all of this?
| w45hljlk wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| arcticbull wrote:
| They put "About" in the Help menu?!
|
| Jokes aside this is an incredibly well executed visual, and the
| throwback to the MacOS 8 era of my high school (where I was when
| this was happening) adds meaningfully to the impact.
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| I'm impressed at how to little the States achieved since 9/11. A
| lot of war expenses with little results and now an even stronger
| Taliban, parading with US army war machines.
|
| I remember a joke from 20 years ago: It's 2021, a son and a
| father are walking in front of Ground Zero and the father says
| "... and here the World Trade Center was standing, before it was
| destroyed on 9/11 by Arab terrorists" "But dad, who are the
| Arabs?"
|
| I guess 10 year old me didn't know how incompetent and/or
| corrupted by oil money our leaders are
| bob229 wrote:
| Why the unusable interface
| davidw wrote:
| I'm old enough to have pretty vivid memories of watching a lot of
| this live. I don't really want to relive it. Keep the memories
| alive? Certainly. But rewatching? Too much.
|
| Also, while we can't change the past, we're facing a massive
| challenge that is devouring thousands of people on a daily basis;
| let's commit to doing everything we can to defeat that particular
| monster. That is something we can all help with, in our own way.
| dotancohen wrote:
| > But rewatching? Too much.
|
| I remember seeing the SRB trails of OV-099 in the sky. Twenty
| years later it was possible to rewatch that on Youtube, but I
| couldn't bring myself to do it.
|
| But by now, I've watch that video and a few documentaries. I
| had no personal loss on January 26 1986, but it still took some
| time for me to be able to digest it. And I'm glad that I did.
| davidw wrote:
| Came in to my 5th grade elementary school class and found my
| teacher crying. She'd made it through several rounds of the
| selection process to be on board the Challenger.
|
| I don't like to watch that either, but... at least it was far
| fewer people, who had also signed up to take a risk, and it
| was a case of negligence rather than malice.
| fu34t wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| sweetbitter wrote:
| Well, some of us never saw it in the first place.
| neltnerb wrote:
| I'm with you, I remember watching these when I left my very
| first physics lecture as a freshman. I have no trouble
| remembering it, so I assume this is mostly for people who have
| never seen it.
| siva7 wrote:
| somehow this makes me feel old...
| reginold wrote:
| Heck yeah! What are you doing to help? I'm pretty exhausted at
| this point, hard to focus.
| davidw wrote:
| Nothing exciting or noteworthy: staying home, avoiding
| crowds, wearing a mask, have my shots. Trying to be extra
| kind and friendly with people in places like supermarkets, or
| teachers. Supporting our school board that takes it seriously
| and is implementing science-based precautions.
| tommymachine wrote:
| Really cool resource. Small nit: the time in the upper right hand
| corner being off by an hour is killing me (not literally).
| photochemsyn wrote:
| When reviewing 9/11 attacks (likely the biggest and most
| disastrous intelligence failure in U.S. history, give or take
| Pearl Harbor), it's worth remembering that it could have been
| much worse. If the first plane had hit Indian Point nuclear
| reactor what, 30 miles from NYC and upwind? It's likely a
| Chernobyl/Fukushima disaster would have resulted with an
| exclusion zone well into NYC. That was reportedly part of the
| plan but as I recall they wanted a more media-friendly target.
|
| Additionally, the fact that members of the Saudi government aided
| and assisted the hijackers, and that they were tracked and
| monitored by both the FBI and the CIA, yet no action was taken to
| stop them, not even a simple warning to airlines to increase
| security after that Aug 6th Presidential Daily Briefing? What a
| debacle.
|
| We should have left Iraq and Afghanistan alone and done the
| regime change op in Saudi Arabia, except that Wall Street likes
| its petrodollars so Washington props up the House of Saud and its
| theocratic dictatorship. And that's still going on.
| project2501a wrote:
| > done the regime change op in Saudi Arabia,
|
| how about "stop fucking with other countries", instead?
|
| maybe bring Kissinger to the international court?
| maybelsyrup wrote:
| Never forget: the CIA, at the highest levels, knew that two of
| the 9/11 hijackers had multiple-entry visas to the US and were
| living in the country in the year before the attacks. They knew
| they were al-Qaeda, and they knew they were important enough to
| have been at a big AQ powwow in Kuala Lumpur in 2000.
|
| CIA management prevented this information from being
| disseminated by FBI agents posted inside "Alec Station", the
| CIA's Bin Laden group, _several times_ , and they later lied
| about doing so. All this according to, among other extremely
| mainstream sources (in addition to the documentary record),
| Richard Clarke, who would know -- he was the Federal "Terrorism
| Czar" on 9/11 and has been fuming pissed about this since he
| found [1][2]. You don't need to be a whack job, a conspiracist,
| to be angry and mystified by this.
|
| In many instances like this one, cursory investigation into
| claims of intelligence community "mistakes" or "incompetence"
| in these matters gives the lie to claims that these
| institutions somehow "dropped the ball" or "got it wrong" on
| 9/11, and are thus not to blame (either partly or fully) for
| the attacks. It's impossible to square such claims with a lot
| of the official paper trail. One can _reasonably_ conclude that
| some of this stuff _was not accidental_. We hire these people
| to lie - why should we ever assume they 're not?
|
| (The best part? Many of the people involved in the events I
| describe were promoted in the years post-9/11!)
|
| [1] https://abcnews.go.com/International/28-pages-questions-
| alle...
|
| [2] https://www.doubleasteriskmedia.com/rich-blee-podcast
| fouc wrote:
| > We should have left Iraq and Afghanistan alone and done the
| regime change op in Saudi Arabia
|
| I'm reminded of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOdULpV810
|
| TL;DW It had nothing to do with the regime in Saudi Arabia. Bin
| laden and supporters were a fringe group.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Additionally, the fact that members of the Saudi government
| aided and assisted the hijackers...
|
| Details? My understanding is a huge fraction of the Saudi
| population have jobs that amount to government sinecures (while
| immigrants do most of the real work). Are we talking about
| high-level members with real leadership positions, or some
| minor member of the royal family working in some ministry doing
| nothing and going off on his own?
| ogma wrote:
| _A court affidavit filed on 3 February 2015 claims that
| Zacarias Moussaoui was a courier between Osama bin Laden and
| Turki bin Faisal Al Saud in the late 1990s, and that Turki
| introduced Moussaoui to Bandar.[76] Zacarias Moussaoui stated
| on oath and wrote to Judge George B. Daniels that Saudi royal
| family members, including Prince Bandar, donated to Al-Qaeda
| and helped finance the 11 September attacks.[77] The Saudi
| government continues to deny any involvement in the 9 /11
| plot, and claims there is no evidence to support Moussaoui's
| allegations in spite of numerous previous intense
| investigations, noting that Moussaoui's own lawyers presented
| evidence of his mental incompetence during his trial.[76]
| Leaked information from the redacted portion of the 9/11
| Commission Report states that two of the 9/11 hijackers
| received $US130,000 in payment from Bandar's bank
| account.[78]_
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud
|
| Bush's close friend, known arms dealer... you guys still
| haven't figured this one out yet? HN is always the last to
| know.
| simonh wrote:
| Saudi politics and personal relationships are a mess. It is
| true that Bin Laden is a member of a very powerful family in
| Saudi and so obviously has a lot of personal connections
| there as do his close associates. He is however estranged
| from that family and has been for a very long time, but may
| have some in Saudi who have grievances against the house of
| Saud and are sympathetic to the jihadis.
|
| Al Qaeda and many other jihadi outfits procure a lot of their
| funding from Islamic charities and schools (Madrassas) with
| complex and very opaque financial dealings. Also the Saudi
| government and individual Saudis donate to many Islamic
| charities, so its highly likely some of that money ends up
| with the jihadi's including Al Qaeda.
|
| So yes there's almost certainly some truth to the
| allegations. Some powerful Saudis may secretly support them,
| some donate to charities and the money ends up with them, but
| no this is not official Saudi state sponsorship of Al Qaeda.
| In fact Al Qaeda consider the Saudi royal family and all of
| their associates to be apostates (essentially heretics) who
| can be killed summarily and they advocate for regime change
| and the establishment of a Caliphate.
|
| Like I said, it's a real mess of family loyalties, rivalries,
| swinging political fortunes and opaque dealings. Game of
| Thrones has nothing on these people. Just look at what
| happened to Jamal Khashoggi.
| atombender wrote:
| > Bin Laden is a member ... He is however estranged
|
| That's a curious way to phrase it, given that he died in
| 2011.
| mygoodaccount wrote:
| > sinecure
|
| Wow this is a great word. Hadn't heard it before. Thanks for
| sharing.
| mlcrypto wrote:
| Too many coincidences. Also we couldn't mobilize any fighter
| jets at all when a plane goes off course?
| jorgesborges wrote:
| You can listen to real-time audio of FAA and NORAD track
| planes and scramble fighters [0]. This is not an easy task
| considering nobody knows what is happening and literally
| every plane in the country is being redirected and landed
| simultaneously.
|
| [0] skip to about 20min https://youtu.be/DYBhgEm3j7A
| onion2k wrote:
| Few people would want to make a call to shoot down two full
| passenger jets over a city. With hindsight it would have been
| the right option, but at the time it's unlikely it would have
| happened even if there had been fighters with missiles
| available.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Hijackings also weren't usually suicide missions before
| then either so it would have been a big leap to decide to
| shoot them down when you'd normally expect demands and a
| chance to take it out on the ground rather than just
| killing everyone on board.
| jdavis703 wrote:
| We did mobilize fighter jets (albeit without missiles, so
| essentially if the pilots intercepted it'd likely be a
| suicide mission). Also after 9/11 people straying in to no
| fly zones over DC would be escorted out by fighters.
| ykl wrote:
| IIRC the fighters that were mobilized planned to ram since
| they took off without time to load missiles onboard, but
| all of our fighter keys have ejection seats. I assume the
| plan was to eject.
| dharmab wrote:
| This is covered in the 9/11 commission report. Quoted below:
|
| The protocols did not contemplate an intercept. They assumed
| the fighter escort would be discreet, "vectored to a position
| five miles directly behind the hijacked aircraft," where it
| could perform its mission to monitor the flight path of the
| aircraft.
|
| In sum, the protocols in place on 9/11 for the FAA and NORAD
| to respond to a hijacking presumed that:
|
| (1) the hijacked aircraft would be readily identifiable and
| would not attempt to disappear;
|
| (2) there would be time to address the problem through the
| appropriate FAA and NORAD chains of command; and
|
| (3) the hijacking would take the traditional form, not a
| suicide hijacking designed to convert the aircraft into a
| guided missile.
|
| On the morning of 9/11, the existing protocol was unsuited in
| every respect for what was about to happen. What ensued was
| the hurried attempt to create an improvised defense by
| officials who had never encountered or trained against the
| situation they faced.
| jsgo wrote:
| Yeah, I don't think 3 can be overstated.
|
| Prior to 911, hijacked planes were not an unknown thing. I
| don't know numbers, but remember periodic events in the
| news of x plane that was hijacked landing at y airport with
| local officials needing to meet hijacker demands for it to
| return to its flight.
|
| Was weird when it happened, but we also didn't have the
| hour of processing through security we do now.
| JamilD wrote:
| Not quite an answer to your question, but in the 60s and 70s
| hijackings were quite common (86 hijackings in 1969) and
| weren't seen in the way they are now. The common
| understanding was that the hijackers wanted to re-route the
| plane somewhere else, and that everyone would end up alive
| but inconvenienced.
|
| It's also one reason why only the passengers in United 93
| fought back; the idea of a plane as a missile wasn't widely
| understood or considered until the planes hit the twin
| towers. Fighter jets were not even under consideration to be
| mobilized until United 93.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| I thought I remembered the plot to the 1996 film "executive
| decision" as being a debate whether to shoot the passenger
| jet out of the sky because the plane was going to be used
| as a missile, but i just read the plot again and they were
| going to detonate a nerve agent bomb on board the plane
| while over a us city, so, similar but not quite a
| prediction of the predicament.
| JamilD wrote:
| I just started watching the historical footage from CNN;
| it's interesting to hear the commentary in between when
| the first and second planes hit the tower.
|
| "Was the plane having any difficulty flying?" "Yes, it
| seemed to be rocking back and forth" "Was this a
| navigational error?"
|
| An announcement in the South Tower immediately after the
| crash instructed people to stay in their offices.
|
| Even after the second tower was hit, the immediate
| reaction was that it was a second explosion in the North
| Tower caused by the fuselage of the plane.
|
| 4 minutes after the second plane hit, when it was clear
| that two planes were involved: "was it possible a
| navigational error directed two planes into the World
| Trade Center?"
|
| It's incredible to think just how much our attitude and
| perspectives changed after realizing what exactly had
| happened.
| garaetjjte wrote:
| That depends on the channel though. On one labeled
| "NEWSW" they said "I think we have a terrorist act of
| proportions that we cannot begin to imagine at this
| juncture. " immediately after second hit.
| trothamel wrote:
| (Spoilers)
|
| The end of Tom Clancy's 1994 book "Debt of Honor"
| featured a 747 being crashed into the Capital, which is
| about as close as fiction gets.
| anonymousab wrote:
| A bit closer is the X-Files spinoff The Lone Gunmen,
| where a March 2001 episode featured a plot to crash an
| airliner into the world trade center and blame it on
| terrorists to justify a new war.
|
| Obviously 9/11 wasn't some government conspiracy to
| purposely spark new wars, but the other details are
| eerily similar.
| kolanos wrote:
| > It's also one reason why only the passengers in United 93
| fought back; the idea of a plane as a missile wasn't widely
| understood or considered until the planes hit the twin
| towers. Fighter jets were not even under consideration to
| be mobilized until United 93.
|
| Sadly this is mostly a myth. It is a little known fact that
| there were five separate U.S. military war games being run
| simultaneously with 9/11 and three of them involved
| airliner hijacking scenarios, including flying airplanes
| into buildings. Worse, these war games involved simulated
| inputs into NORAD and FAA radar systems, resulting in mass
| confusion. There is an excellent documentary that covers
| these war games, including actual NORAD, FAA and EADS audio
| [0].
|
| [0]: https://www.corbettreport.com/911wargames/
| vmception wrote:
| We could have done regime change in Saudi Arabia and still had
| petrodollars
|
| Sometimes its useful to think _inside_ the box
|
| But yeah current Saudi Arabia is a good deal for the US, hard
| to get others so heavily intertwined financially. Might as well
| not touch it.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| I don't really understand what US/allies get from maintaining
| a theocracy in SA, chevron and british petroleum predate the
| modern kingdom, right? why is it good business sense to let
| the royal family siphon cash like there's no tomorrow?
|
| seems to me a political explanation is more likely, probably
| related to the holy war with Iran. In that case I never
| really understood why we took an anti-theocratic stance
| there.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Saudi Arabia broadly respects western wishes, they let the
| western companies make billions of dollars off their oil
| while the monarchy also makes billions of dollars. The West
| worries that if they rock the boat, a situation like
| Venezuela or Iran will happen, where the state tries to cut
| out the western companies from getting a cut.
|
| Iran provides the perfect example of why we tolerate Saudi
| Arabia. From 1901 to 1951, Iran's oil was controlled
| primarily by the British. In 1951, a democratic movement
| lead to the nationalization of the oil industry, which
| quickly led to a CIA backed coup. For the next ~30 years, a
| Western backed dictatorship ruled and their violent rule
| lead to the 1979 revolution being overtly hostile to the
| West.
|
| The West fears any other Saudi government would end up
| hostile to the West, given their decades of support for the
| monarchy.
| dylan604 wrote:
| The devil you know...
|
| If you hold an election after toppling a non-democratic
| government, you never know if that's going to be the last
| election or not. Also, you just can't trust that the people
| will elect your "guy". If you're already "controlling" the
| current leadership, no need to turn over the apple cart.
| vmception wrote:
| taking over places is more expensive than letting people
| have their own self determination. distributes the load,
| still gets the resources and influence. greater levels of
| animosity avoided, sometimes completely.
| creato wrote:
| My relatively uneducated impression: it seems like the
| current leaders of Saudi Arabia are the _most_ liberal (in
| the classical sense) option. Other candidates for
| leadership are even more hardline religious conservatives
| (and when people think of the 9 /11 hijackers coming from
| SA, it's from these groups). Pushing against the current
| leadership is unlikely to result in an overall improvement
| in the situation.
| yyyk wrote:
| >We could have done regime change in Saudi Arabia and still
| had petrodollars
|
| Very unlikely. Any military involvement anywhere near Mecca
| and Medina is off the table barring being invited or some
| utterly insane scenario.
| mcguire wrote:
| " _...barring being invited or some utterly insane
| scenario._ "
|
| I think you're being redundant there. US troops _anywhere_
| in Saudi Arabia is kind of a big deal.
| gremloni wrote:
| Saudi Arabia is not a regime. It's the most powerful tribal
| family in a country of family/tribes _all_ of whom have the
| same perspective. Never mind the fact that it's a very rich
| country in country with obnoxious human rights abuses when it
| comes to migrant workers but still has no poverty. Even amongst
| the migrants. Not to mention that in my opinion they treat
| women exactly how they should be treated.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Saudi Arabia is not a regime.
|
| Yes, it has a regime.
|
| > It's the most powerful tribal family in a country of
| family/tribes all of whom have the same perspective.
|
| Yes, the House of Saud is that, except not all the
| family/tribes have the same perspective (heck, even the House
| of Saud isn't internally super cohesive, though MBS' recent
| internal purges and the implicit threat of more have reduced
| the degree of _active_ viewpoint diversity within the House
| of Saud and Saudi elites more generally.)
|
| > Never mind the fact that it's a very rich country in
| country with obnoxious human rights abuses when it comes to
| migrant workers but still has no poverty. Even amongst the
| migrants.
|
| Saudi Arabia has a low reported poverty rate (but not zero;
| 12.7%) but it's reporting is irregular and unreliable, and is
| generally held to underestimate poverty significantly in
| general. Poverty estimates among the migrants make up the bar
| majority of the labor force (and the vast majority of the
| low-skill labor force) are very high.
| 542458 wrote:
| Re: Indian Point - containment buildings are pretty armoured by
| design. The Indian point containment vessel walls are several
| feet of high-grade steel reinforced concrete. You might be
| thinking of the skinny, low quality rebar used in common
| construction at this point - this isn't that, the rebar here is
| 2.25 inches thick, made of good-quality steel, and spaced every
| fifteen inches or so. The containment building is also smaller
| than a 747, so you can't transfer the entire plane's energy to
| it like you could with a larger target like the towers.
|
| The Indian Point engineers assert that theirs reactors and all
| other structures contains radioactive material could survive a
| 9/11 style impact.
|
| http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20130108221220/http://www.nei....
| bradknowles wrote:
| When the towers were first built, one of the design questions
| was whether or not they could survive being hit by a 747 --
| on accident, presumably. So, that issue was taken into
| consideration.
|
| At the time of the attack, more modern aircraft were used,
| which had much thinner skins and were much more lightly
| constructed. Which means that they got much more shredded by
| the building construction as they passed through, and which
| also helped take off a lot more of the fire insulation from
| the trusses in the building.
| 542458 wrote:
| The 747s simulated were also near-empty and flying slow, as
| the assumption was an accidental collision from an airplane
| lost in fog trying to land. They never simulated one nearly
| full of fuel running full-tilt.
| rtkwe wrote:
| You'd be more likely to damage enough of the cooling and
| control systems to cause an issue but it most likely wouldn't
| lead to a meltdown since Indian Point was a PWR reactor and
| those use the liquid water as a moderator so if it starts to
| overheat it naturally lowers it's own reactivity.
| ascar wrote:
| My dad told me that when he studied construction engineering
| in the late 70s at TU Munich one of their assignments was to
| calculate if the Isar nuclear reactors are built strong
| enough to hold off a Mach 2.2 impact of a Phantom II. If I
| recall correctly the correct answer was that they were quite
| a bit stronger than necessary for that.
|
| However, I always wondered if a large civilian plane like a
| 747 with a speed close to Mach 1 creates more or less impact.
| The 747 is ~12 times heavier, but it's also less than half
| the speed and spreads the impact across a much larger area.
| adwi wrote:
| > The containment building is also smaller than a 747, so you
| can't transfer the entire plane's energy to it like you could
| with a larger target like the towers.
|
| I know very little about physics and found this to be an
| unexpected point I'd like to understand more. Could you
| explain?
| whoisburbansky wrote:
| The plane isn't perfectly rigid, so it would only be able
| to impart as much energy to the structure as contained in
| the part of the plane that gets sheared off while colliding
| with the containment building.
| [deleted]
| gremloni wrote:
| I'm no expert at physics but the towers were more
| "collapsible" so they would absorb more of the momentum
| from the planes.
| jwagenet wrote:
| As a layman there are probably few theories behind this
| statement: 1. The plane is not an energy monolith, any part
| of the plane larger than the building (eg wings) would have
| its own inertia which continues to rip off and around the
| building rather than drive all energy/mass attached to
| plane to the point of impact. 2. A smaller building may act
| like a plow if circular or hit on a corner, diverting
| energy as in 1. 3. If you simplify the side of a building
| to a supported plane, a larger plane may deform to failure
| more than a small plane due to the distance between
| supports ( other walls of building)
| fighterpilot wrote:
| > Iraq
|
| Regarding WMDs, the suggestion at the time was that
| intelligence couldn't be released because it was sensitive.
|
| What if they were required by law to release an md5sum of a
| tarball of the intelligence, perhaps with some associated
| metadata to make it infeasible to fabricate/game. This whole
| process is overseen by a judge or independent body. Then 5-15
| years later they release it in full when that intelligence is
| no longer sensitive?
|
| This is a way to get around that excuse and help with
| accountability, transparency, trust in institutions, and so on.
| Sort of like a time-shifted FOIA request. It'd be a great way
| to strengthen our democratic institutions, disincentivize lying
| and corruption, and improving everyone's confidence in our
| institutions.
|
| Perhaps this isn't feasibile in practice, though, if the
| intelligence involves spies/assets that are still operational,
| or if it would involve revealing secrets around capabilities
| and methods. However, if that's the case, then they could
| release say 100 md5sums corresponding to the 100 documents, and
| only release the subset of which is no longer sensitive, with a
| judge appointed to determine the legitimacy of the claim of
| sensitivity, and forcing the release of the subset of documents
| not deemed to be sensitive.
| AndrewUnmuted wrote:
| What is the rationale for this kind of thing? What motivates a
| person to construct such a strange relic to 9/11 like this?
|
| And how come, after doing so, did the creator fail to make any
| sort of reasonable points about the event?
|
| This feels like some sort of opportunistic resume-building kind
| of project, made from the very real deaths of thousands of
| innocent people.
|
| And not one mention was made about the US's horrific foreign
| policy that led to 9/11 in the first place. Such a wasted
| opportunity.
| dharmab wrote:
| Did you not get the intro pop-up explaining this is intended
| for use as part of a history class lesson plan for students
| born after 9/11?
| AndrewUnmuted wrote:
| No, I didn't notice that.
|
| And if that's the intended use for this stupid website, then
| it's a terrible lesson plan they've made. It doesn't actually
| address any meaningful aspect to 9/11 besides make it appear
| to be from the "beforetimes."
| maybelsyrup wrote:
| Damn someone's on the rag. Go smoke a joint bud, it's gonna
| be okay
| ctdonath wrote:
| Nothing wrong with aggregating records of a historical
| event and presenting them in real time without commentary.
| Put together the records and let them speak for the event.
|
| Your verbiage indicates the mere portrayal of what happened
| is deeply at odds with your opinions about it. Care to
| elaborate?
| solveit wrote:
| > This feels like some sort of opportunistic resume-
| building kind of project, made from the very real deaths
| of thousands of innocent people.
|
| They dislike the current state of the tech industry and
| cannot stop thinking about it no matter what the topic.
| humanistbot wrote:
| It isn't a lesson plan. It is raw archival material
| intended for teachers to use with whatever lesson plan they
| create.
| lmilcin wrote:
| I think it is public service to show historical events from a
| different perspective.
|
| Reading about something is one thing, being able to experience
| as it happened, the same way most people experienced -- from
| media, is another.
| n8cpdx wrote:
| primary source documents are one of the most powerful ways to
| understand an event and the impact it had.
|
| I'm almost in my 30s and I barely remember 9/11. Most kids
| today, live in a world (for Americans at least) that was
| profoundly changed by 9/11. They deserve to be able to
| understand that moment.
|
| The first time I went to an airport, there were (National
| Guard, I think) soldiers standing around with heavy duty guns.
| Later, it was removing shoes and all the rest of the nonsense
| security theater we still put up with. A few years later, the
| fabled pornoscan.
|
| People deserve to be able to learn about the history of their
| world. It is deeply offensive to me that you would suggest
| people can't handle primary sources and need someone to make
| 'reasonable points' and do people's thinking for them.
| jpindar wrote:
| Has anyone figured out how to listen to one of the audio clips at
| a time?
|
| I keep having to play whack-a-mole trying to mute the ones I'm
| not listening to, but they don't stay muted, and to make things
| worse they keep changing position on the screen.
| [deleted]
| serverholic wrote:
| Is september 11th some sort of special day?
| arthurcolle wrote:
| Not funny
| serverholic wrote:
| My bad I didn't realize you were the authority on humor.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| I'm the authority on humor. A joke has some kind of
| structure, usually a setup, some kind of carry-through, and
| a punchline. What you have is a sentence.
| ratsmack wrote:
| Deadpan humor looks like a sentence.
| serverholic wrote:
| TIL humor must adhere to a formula. Thank you sir.
| throwthrow564 wrote:
| It's interesting how little the broadcasts of other nations
| changed whereas American news just replayed 9/11 footage time and
| time again. The CCTV played a soap opera and BBC was focused on
| mad cow's disease. It also appears that NHK was much more focused
| on a typhoon in Hokkaido.
| vesinisa wrote:
| The creators of this website unfortunately did not consider
| that BBC broadcasts in British time. You have to jump to 1:59
| PM (= 8:59 AM NYC time) for the beginning of the BBC coverage.
|
| I personally vividly remember watching the news on BBC World
| and saw at least one of the towers collapse on live TV. You
| don't really forget something like that.
| ISL wrote:
| It is incredible reliving this experience, knowing what was to
| come in the two decades after.
| mathgenius wrote:
| Yes. But also, it was pretty obvious to me at the time what was
| going to happen, modulo some details.
|
| What I did not predict was that I would end up living in many
| different cities in many different countries, including Los
| Angeles and New York City. And by far, Americans are the most
| kind-hearted, generous and polite people I've found anywhere.
| Even the beggars in Manhatten would be more interested in how I
| am going and cheering me up than in actually getting any money
| out of me.
| ISL wrote:
| We all knew that we were going to respond unfailingly to
| counter those responsible. What we didn't know was who it
| was, where they were, what the ripple-effects might be, or
| how it might end.
|
| On the latter-two points, we don't yet know the entire story.
| w45hljlk wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| catattack45 wrote:
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
|
| 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB -
| So Is Covid 9/11 Was an Inside JOB - So Is Covid
| gorkempacaci wrote:
| The page is terrible on iOS safari. Videos keep popping up and
| can't close the thing.
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(page generated 2021-09-11 23:00 UTC)