[HN Gopher] Pentagon retakes control of IP addresses it moved in...
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       Pentagon retakes control of IP addresses it moved in last minutes
       of presidency
        
       Author : arkadiyt
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2021-09-11 15:01 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | EMM_386 wrote:
       | Is it possible this is cronyism?
       | 
       | Wasn't the US Government looking to sell these unused addresses
       | to bring money in?
       | 
       | What if this secretive shell company is just something run by a
       | great campaign donor or someone close to the administration who
       | planned on a good cut of these profits?
       | 
       | It makes me very curious who is really behind this storefront in
       | Plantation, FL.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | The value of these addresses is peanuts to the DOD... although
         | it would be a fortune if it made its way into someone's pocket.
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | I'm willing to bet some money that, whoever they are, they play
         | golf at Mar-a-Lago.
        
         | IAmEveryone wrote:
         | This would be my bet, as well. The company being registered in
         | Florida also supports it, even if it's not definitive.
         | 
         | People get thrown off by it being the Pentagon and come up with
         | all these James-Bond-level theories. But DoD just happens to be
         | the owner for historic reason.
        
       | betwixthewires wrote:
       | I was reading a thread on this site about the program and there
       | was speculation that since these IPs are mothballed, lots of
       | people use the address range for internal networks, particularly
       | in China, and potentially this experiment was to get lots of
       | networks worldwide to accidentally leak internal network traffic
       | to the pentagon. Who knows what this thing was, but that sounds
       | like something a government would do.
        
       | pbronez wrote:
       | Defense Digital Service is pretty solid. I'm not worried about
       | this.
        
         | count wrote:
         | Solid at what?
        
         | kjaftaedi wrote:
         | You don't wonder at all why they needed a private company?
        
           | dillondoyle wrote:
           | For tech & engineering specifically, sometimes used to get
           | above the govt salary caps. But standard industrial complex
           | profit maker makes sense too lol
        
           | BrianOnHN wrote:
           | Cover story. As in the DDS is the cover story for how easy it
           | is to do a money grab in the US gov.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | I figured they just like it that way for the deniability,
           | e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Air_Transport
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | platz wrote:
       | did someone roll a nat 20 in shadowrun
        
         | alasdair_ wrote:
         | Doesn't shadowrun only use d6 for all rolls?
        
       | twirlock wrote:
       | Linking to paywalls should not be allowed. Obvious example of our
       | intelligentsia thinking it's magically special in all domains of
       | life, and now that Reddit has spread to every last corner of the
       | internet, we just accept it.
        
       | programmarchy wrote:
       | Could this be related to the SolarWinds hack? Maybe the Pentagon
       | was monitoring traffic to surveil vulnerable corporate
       | infrastructure.
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | Could you explain how this would work?
        
           | programmarchy wrote:
           | Not exactly but here's some quotes from an article earlier
           | this year [1]:
           | 
           | > Goldstein described the project as one of the Defense
           | Department's "many efforts focused on continually improving
           | our cyber posture and defense in response to advanced
           | persistent threats. We are partnering throughout DoD to
           | ensure potential vulnerabilities are mitigated."
           | 
           | > Expanding on his [Madory] point that the Defense Department
           | may want to "scare off any would-be squatters," he wrote that
           | "there is a vast world of fraudulent BGP routing out there.
           | As I've documented over the years, various types of bad
           | actors use unrouted address space to bypass blocklists in
           | order to send spam and other types of malicious traffic."
           | 
           | > On the Defense Department's goal of collecting "background
           | Internet traffic for threat intelligence," Madory noted that
           | "there is a lot of background noise that can be scooped up
           | when announcing large ranges of IPv4 address space."
           | 
           | [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-
           | technology/2021/04/penta...
        
       | bwj982 wrote:
       | Under what circumstances can internal traffic leak to external
       | addresses in 11.0.0.0/8? I'd have thought it wouldn't have been
       | routed via a gateway if the traffic is local.
        
         | 0x0000000 wrote:
         | Routing decisions are made via route tables, which may include
         | routes learned from different means: connected routes ("I have
         | an interface in this network"), static routes, and routes
         | learned from routing protocols (BGP, OSPF, et al). While any
         | given routing protocol has it's own cost metric for selecting
         | the best path, if a router has multiple routes to a network,
         | learned from different means, there must be a way to select
         | which route to install in the route table.
         | 
         | This can be tuned, but often goes in order of connected,
         | static, _external BGP_ , followed by internal BGP and other
         | interior gateway protocols.
         | 
         | So, yeah if you learn a route from eBGP, you very well may take
         | that path out of your own AS out to the global Internet, as
         | opposed to internally where you are (incorrectly) using someone
         | else's public space.
         | 
         | (Edit: network here includes a prefix length, where more
         | specific prefixes are chosen over less specific ones. In the
         | case, the public announcement is 11.0.0.0/8. If you were using
         | this space internally, you would presumably have more specific
         | routes than a /8)
        
       | lvs wrote:
       | I don't really understand the premise of the article. There's no
       | need to change control of an ip space in a registry to assign it
       | to some piece of network hardware. The ownership change seems to
       | serve no purpose under the offered explanation that its purpose
       | was bulk collection.
        
       | nickthemagicman wrote:
       | Why does the federal government STILL have control over 6% of the
       | internet IP's?
       | 
       | Edit: added the word still. I know the history but that was like
       | 20 years or more ago.
       | 
       | Why did they still have so much IP space?
        
         | wrs wrote:
         | The same reason Apple, Ford, and Bell Labs still have giant
         | blocks -- they got in at the beginning when allocation of 4
         | billion addresses seemed like a non-problem, and haven't sold
         | out.
         | 
         | https://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-add...
        
           | merrywhether wrote:
           | I think I found a way for the USPS to fund the pensions for
           | all their future yet-to-be-born workers...
        
           | gjsman-1000 wrote:
           | Holy moly, Apple owns _all_ of 17 . * . * . * (workaround for
           | HN formatting)? Wow. That 's over 16 million IP addresses.
           | Fun.
        
             | deathanatos wrote:
             | CIDR notation is how you notate these; Apple owns
             | 17.0.0.0/8; the /8 meaning "8 bits identify the network
             | portion", so just the first octet, or the 17.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-
             | Domain_Routing...
             | 
             | Coincidentally, CIDR doesn't conflict with the HN comment
             | syntax.
             | 
             | Sometimes shortened to 17/8, but... I wouldn't recommend
             | that.
        
             | iso1210 wrote:
             | Apple at least is a major IT company, but Ford!
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | They needed IP addresses for all their computers. ;-)
        
         | count wrote:
         | They use a ton of it. Millions and millions of devices around
         | the globe on a bunch of networks.
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | "The internet", in the sense of the big TCP/IP v4 network we
         | know today, was a DARPA-funded enhancement to the original
         | ARPANET.
         | 
         | The Pentagon owns a big chunk of the internet because the
         | Pentagon paid for the internet, basically. The more interesting
         | bit is how much it they gave away for free, not how much it
         | kept.
        
           | chrisco255 wrote:
           | We paid for the internet. The Pentagon is paid for by taxes.
        
             | CameronNemo wrote:
             | Alright, and the "we" you refer to still technically own
             | those addresses.
        
               | nickthemagicman wrote:
               | But why? after all these years why did they still have
               | those?
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | Why does anyone have an IP address? To use them.
        
               | kasey_junk wrote:
               | It's a strategic asset. The same reason there are giant
               | collections of old military planes out in the desert. You
               | never know when you might need it.
        
               | Roritharr wrote:
               | I wondered about those lately. Do you happen to know if
               | they are really in a state to make them flightworthy
               | again if push came to shove?
               | 
               | I would have expected them to have deteriorated to a
               | point where restoring them becomes a bigger effort than
               | building new planes.
        
               | slapfrog wrote:
               | It's a dry climate and aluminum doesn't just rot. It
               | would obviously take some money and work to bring planes
               | out of mothballs, and probably in some cases unrepairable
               | damage would be discovered, but I would expect most of
               | the planes to successfully reactivate if the need was
               | great enough. Those that couldn't be reactivated could be
               | cannibalized for spare parts.
               | 
               | Consider that the Iowa class battleships spent some
               | decades deactivated, sitting in salt water, before being
               | reactivated several times.
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | They know what they're doing. But there aren't really old
               | planes in the boneyard now. 1980s vintage and later plus
               | a few muesum pieces that haven't been towed to the museum
               | yet. The oddest thing out there is the tooling to make
               | B1-B airframes.
        
         | CydeWeys wrote:
         | It used to have control over 100% of them, so this is a big
         | improvement.
        
         | qbasic_forever wrote:
         | The internet was created by DARPA.
        
           | eurasiantiger wrote:
           | This can be independently verified by running a reverse DNS
           | lookup, which asks the name server for a magic domain:
           | 1.2.3.4 becomes "4.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa", which then yields NS
           | records for the actual domains served from that address.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | To address your edit, they still do because it doesn't really
         | matter. We have mitigated IPv4 exhaustion with NAT, and IPv6
         | adoption is still growing. No one cares enough to try to do
         | anything about it.
         | 
         | If you made a list of "most popular concerns about the Internet
         | in 2021," the size of U.S. federal IP space would be pretty far
         | down.
        
           | nickthemagicman wrote:
           | NAT has problems. It isn't the same as having an IP address.
           | 
           | IPV6 is the solution but has been in adoption forever.
           | 
           | I just don't understand what the government needs with all of
           | those IP addresses and what kind of sneaky stuff it's doing
           | behind the scenes.
        
             | SllX wrote:
             | It's not sneaky to own that much address space; just
             | inertia. Remember that the Internet is an outgrowth of
             | ARPANET.
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | Because they paid to create it initially and have yet to sell
         | their address space. There are some great stories early on that
         | break down to: "Why are all these civilians on our network?"
        
         | swarnie wrote:
         | Because they can.
         | 
         | Who's going to take it off them?
        
           | 1970-01-01 wrote:
           | The highest bidder.. China.
        
           | mc32 wrote:
           | No because it was first come first served in addition to
           | having sprouted from a government program.
           | 
           | Universities who got on the bandwagon first also tended to
           | have multiple class B addresses.
        
             | icedchai wrote:
             | I know several individuals who have /24's ("class C")
             | blocks, including myself. I always regret not going for the
             | class B. It would've just taken a couple of emails back in
             | 1993.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | The first place I was a network admin at they had a /16.
               | I didn't deal with private IPs until I left that company
               | in 2015. Even the printers were on a public IP.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | swarnie wrote:
             | A great answer in the late 70s, what's the reason for
             | holding on to them today?
        
               | slapfrog wrote:
               | Possession is 9/10th of the law? They already have them,
               | making it easy for them to keep them.
        
         | Xorlev wrote:
         | Back when IPv4 was enough for everyone, huge blocks of IPs were
         | granted to corporations and governments.
        
         | est31 wrote:
         | Because the internet originated from a federal government
         | project. The federal government of the USA also owns 28% of the
         | land in the USA, means it owns 1.7% of the total land on earth.
         | 
         | Also, early owners got huge allocations. And the US government
         | is an early owner.
        
       | mfer wrote:
       | I wonder if that company was a shell company setup by a 3 letter
       | agency
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | That seems like a fairly dumb idea. The point of a CIA shell
         | company is to hide the link to the government, isn't it?
        
           | GenerocUsername wrote:
           | And here we are uncertain. what's your point again?
        
       | cpncrunch wrote:
       | https://archive.is/Y16Bg
        
         | jvdvegt wrote:
         | Does anyone know why I can't reach archive.is anymore from The
         | Netherlands these days?
        
           | CameronNemo wrote:
           | Are you using Cloudflare DNS?
           | 
           | https://jarv.is/notes/cloudflare-dns-archive-is-blocked/
        
             | stingraycharles wrote:
             | Oh man this explains so many issues I have had with
             | archive.is, I couldn't pinpoint the problem. Thanks for
             | sharing this, things finally make sense now.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | I have Cloudflare with fallback to Google and I need to
             | refresh a few times to make it fallback and work. This spat
             | is kinda ridiculous.
        
               | lugged wrote:
               | Is this a Mac thing? You're not meant to use DNS fallback
               | for different providers.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | I can't see what a Mac has to do with this at all.
               | 
               | Also I can't imagine why you might think that "You're not
               | meant to use DNS fallback for different providers." That
               | was precisely the point it was originally designed for.
               | The whole point of multiple resolvers is to have
               | diversity of risk. If both your resolvers are from the
               | same organization there's a higher chance that whatever
               | took one out took the other out as well.
        
               | true_religion wrote:
               | I'm not really understanding the crux of it. Even if
               | archive.is doesn't get your location via DNS, won't they
               | get it anyways immediately one millisecond later when you
               | issue an HTTP GET request?
        
               | cyounkins wrote:
               | Yes, the receiving webserver will get the IP with the
               | HTTP GET, but it's mostly too late to be useful for
               | serving users from a server with minimal latency.
               | 
               | The EDNS client subnet feature reveals the clients subnet
               | (but not entire IP) to the nameserver that answers the
               | DNS query, which is then cached by Cloudflare/Google.
               | This allows the nameserver to do geolocation at the DNS
               | stage and direct the end user to a server with minimal
               | latency.
               | 
               | Without EDNS client subnet, you could get the IP for an
               | archive.is frontend in a different continent and have a
               | slow site experience. While the frontend server will get
               | your IP, it's too late to do much about it under normal
               | circumstances. An HTTP redirect would cost time, and
               | you'd have to have different domains for each data
               | center/region which is one thing you can avoid with the
               | client subnet feature to start with.
        
               | CameronNemo wrote:
               | Frankly they (archive.is) wouldn't have this issue if
               | they used BGP anycast. DNS was never designed to
               | facilitate regional load balancing.
        
               | NickNameNick wrote:
               | I thought anycast wasn't reliable for TCP sessions?
               | 
               | You can serve UDP services (eg DNS) by anycast, but if
               | you hosted a tcp service, there's no guarantee the same
               | server would receive consecutive packets from the tcp
               | stream
        
           | entropicgravity wrote:
           | I can't reach it from Canada either right now.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
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