[HN Gopher] Sauna use as a lifestyle practice to extend healthspan
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Sauna use as a lifestyle practice to extend healthspan
        
       Author : allenleein
       Score  : 186 points
       Date   : 2021-09-11 14:50 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sciencedirect.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencedirect.com)
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | Saunas are very interesting, but I think it's important to keep
       | it in perspective: Many of the sauna papers theorize that the
       | sauna might mimic some, though not all, of the positive effects
       | of exercise:
       | 
       | > Interestingly, many of the physiological responses to sauna use
       | (described in detail below) are remarkably similar to those
       | experienced during moderate- to vigorous-intensity aerobic
       | exercise, and sauna use has been proposed as an alternative to
       | aerobic exercise for people who are unable to engage in physical
       | activity due to chronic disease or physical limitations
       | 
       | If you don't have a sauna but you're looking for positive health
       | benefits, some moderate intensity aerobic exercise could provide
       | more health benefits anyway.
       | 
       | Even heat shock proteins, which many people have come to
       | associate with sauna use, are expressed during exercise.
       | 
       | Of course, it's easier to sit in a sauna than to jog or run, but
       | we should keep it in perspective: Saunas are currently at the
       | peak of their hype cycle due to popularization on certain outlets
       | like the Joe Rogan podcast. It's reminiscent of a few years ago
       | when Reservatrol was all over podcasts and the news as a wonder
       | supplement after popular media exaggerated the research. Exercise
       | is still king.
       | 
       | EDIT: Of course, both can be better than either one alone, but if
       | you're limited on time and/or resources then don't feel left out:
       | Exercise is much, much cheaper than a sauna.
        
         | jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote:
         | You can also go out for a run on a hot day during the summer
         | and sweat your ass off. Feels bad and good at the same time.
        
         | kiba wrote:
         | It's not a dichotomy, plus you can get much hotter in a saunas
         | then you can running. So it's not a completely analogous.
        
         | newbamboo wrote:
         | Both is better than just either.
        
       | mirekrusin wrote:
       | What about bikram yoga then?
        
         | jpmattia wrote:
         | Might as well skip to the end of the story and start training
         | for Badwater.
         | 
         | https://www.badwater.com/event/badwater-135/
        
       | xriddle wrote:
       | I've been wanting to build one for a while but I see so many pre-
       | owned infrared saunas available on the cheap. Any consensus if
       | it's just as good? The article references one study that used
       | infrared that reported positive effect.
       | 
       | https://www.cfp.ca/content/55/7/691.short
        
         | emerongi wrote:
         | If a friend were to invite me to an infrared sauna, I would not
         | go.
        
         | linux2647 wrote:
         | My wife has an infrared sauna and loves it. I've used it a few
         | times and it gets pretty hot. You sweat a lot, so I'm assuming
         | it's getting the same effect
        
           | frosted-flakes wrote:
           | Maybe the same health effects, but definitely not the same
           | experience. A traditional Finnish sauna isn't just a hot
           | room; loyly (the steam that is created by throwing water on
           | the hot rocks of the stove) is a core part of taking a sauna,
           | and that's missing in an infrared sauna.
        
             | sergers wrote:
             | I would agree...
             | 
             | Bought a 3 person infrared sauna (through Costco) for about
             | 1600$ 12 years ago.
             | 
             | There were periods we didn't use it but generally at least
             | a couple times a week.
             | 
             | Gets you hot, helps you sweat, can be relaxing in itself.
             | 
             | But it's not same 'experience' as a traditional sauna.
             | 
             | I would probably say it was one of the best purchases I
             | have made based on how much we used it, still running
             | strong, has definately helped us over the years.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Some people install them in their shower.
        
       | botolo wrote:
       | I wonder if this could be the same with hot yoga. I had a session
       | yesterday for the first time, and I sweat like never before.
        
       | moneywoes wrote:
       | Where does someone find a sauna in our Covid times?
        
         | lhorie wrote:
         | Buy a portable japanese ofuro tub and heater. You can get a
         | reasonable setup for less than $1000 and they are specifically
         | designed to fit in small spaces (like box showers)
        
         | ARandomerDude wrote:
         | Texas or Florida.
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | Seriously, in many part of the world during the summer you
           | can just go outside. Although I wonder what the relative
           | humidity is of a typical sauna and where it falls on the
           | spectrum between Southeastern to Southwestern US.
        
         | treme wrote:
         | they have dinky portable ones on amazon for few hundred.
         | 
         | It's great for sweating out, not sure about how vetted the
         | build material is given that silver colored coating insides of
         | fabric seems to rub off.
         | 
         | also, can't remember the source but I believe excessive use
         | (everyday, 30m+) contributes poorly to testicle health, to the
         | point of making you infertile for a while. I imagine optimal
         | sauna usage would involve using an icepack or alike if you did
         | it everyday.
        
         | tsukikage wrote:
         | Build one in your back yard. At the end of the day, it's a shed
         | with a bench, a heater and a bunch of rocks. It might be good
         | for your health or it might be woo, but at least you'll have a
         | sauna and that's its own reward.
        
           | NullPrefix wrote:
           | inb4 all the city folk with no back yards.
        
             | Johnny555 wrote:
             | My townhouse neighbor had one built on her back deck - it's
             | small, looks like only a single person can use it at a
             | time, but it fits nicely on her deck, and only needs a 120V
             | outlet.
             | 
             | You can also find portable indoor saunas:
             | 
             | https://www.amazon.com/portable-saunas-
             | home/s?k=portable+sau...
        
               | nazgulnarsil wrote:
               | I had no idea these were so cheap. One of these followed
               | by a cool shower sounds amazing. Thanks for linking.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | At home, if one is rich enough.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | Or if you have half a clue, and can watch YouTube, you could
           | probably build one pretty cheap.
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | Sure, if you have both control of property adequate to be
             | allowed to build one and surplus space to build one. The
             | cost of actually constructing it isn't the only thing
             | wealth is relevant to.
        
           | xwdv wrote:
           | Not too rich, just have an extra bathroom you can convert or
           | something.
        
           | tluyben2 wrote:
           | As it is not easy to feel the real meaning of comments over
           | the internet: rich enough is very vague, but being rich to do
           | this, in life, means inflexible, whether by circumstance or
           | choice. On HN it is mostly choice: people say only the rich
           | can afford it because they themselces choose to live
           | somewhere where you have to be extremely wealthy to have
           | space. With wfh, you can get nice houses with gardens, or, in
           | some countries huge swats of land with a villa or multiple
           | houses for 3-6 months pay at a faang. I get people don't want
           | that: I thought it was for old folk until I lived in such a
           | place for a 6 month sabbatical. I never left.
        
           | dementik wrote:
           | ..or a Finn. Almost every household in Finland has own sauna.
        
             | mushishi wrote:
             | Really? I doubt that. Perhaps most buildings, as storey
             | buildings do often have a shared sauna. As an anecdote, I
             | have lived perhaps in 6 rented apartments, and two of them
             | had a sauna, and I don't think I decidedly chose non-sauna
             | option.
             | 
             | Here's some article in Finnish about the current trend that
             | new apartments don't necessarily have a sauna:
             | https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9393813
             | 
             | It could be that most households have but also I've seen an
             | article that people use them plainly as storage rooms.
        
               | rebuilder wrote:
               | And that YLE article about a trend change is after there
               | was a recent-ish trend to _start_ building saunas in
               | apartments. So older apartments don 't have saunas unless
               | retrofitted, and newer ones are starting to be less
               | likely to have them.
        
               | frosted-flakes wrote:
               | Yes, really.
        
               | mushishi wrote:
               | Quick search gives 1.720 million saunas in apartments
               | (total 2.3). So your claim sounds about right.
               | 
               | https://www.tilastokeskus.fi/tup/suoluk/suoluk_asuminen_e
               | n.h...
        
             | fsloth wrote:
             | As a Finn I can agree with this sentiment. It's a cultural
             | thing. And we are not a filthy rich nation.
        
             | ng55QPSK wrote:
             | There is this story, that on the 1936 Olympics in Berlin,
             | the finish athletic team arrived and started to build a
             | sauna, because it was missing.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | computador wrote:
         | As I am sweating while writing this note, may I recommend
         | Dakar/Senegal where you can have free sauna anywhere. If you
         | step outside, you also get a free tanning session.
        
           | ng55QPSK wrote:
           | A reasonable sauna temperature is 80degC, a lot of people
           | prefer the 90..95degC range. I have some doubts you reach
           | this without tricks in Senegal.
        
             | karottenreibe wrote:
             | I bet a few concave mirrors can get the job done!
        
         | seniorsassycat wrote:
         | The spas in Seattle are open. Imo they charge a lot for a sauna
         | but it's a nice occasional treat
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | The gym. My gym's sauna is open, I presume you have a gym with
         | a sauna nearby that you can go to.
        
         | AndrewUnmuted wrote:
         | I am sure all the gym owners in the US would love to open their
         | saunas up for use.
         | 
         | They surely aren't supportive of the current situation during
         | these "Covid times." It only takes our collective will and
         | resolve to allow our businesses to reopen, without restrictions
         | and without guilt, shame, and fear of reprisal.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | Sauna itself with proper temperature 80 Celsius(353K) would
           | likely be one of the most safe places for Covid
           | transformation. On other hand risk around showers and
           | changing rooms are likely quite a lot higher.
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | Where are you that the gyms aren't open? I've been going to
           | my Gym's sauna for 4 months now that its been open. I am
           | vaccinated, the masks are optional in the gym, and its a
           | great relaxing experience after work.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | I prefer steam rooms. If I am in there for 30 minutes I notice my
       | IT bands in the legs are as loose as if I had stretched for an
       | hour.
        
         | loonster wrote:
         | Its much easier to overheat in a wet sauna.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dwaltrip wrote:
       | Does anyone have other good resources on what saunas do to the
       | body? I just started using the one at my climbing gym and was
       | pretty amazed at how I felt afterwards. It's really nice. I'm
       | very curious what is happening physiologically.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sdfjkl wrote:
       | Is there an energy efficient type of Sauna yet? It seems a huge
       | waste of energy to heat a room to such high temperatures, using
       | it for maybe an hour and then let it all puff away.
        
         | ng55QPSK wrote:
         | I remember heating a small sauna at a friends' house with wood
         | (something like 3 square meters), you don't need much if the
         | sauna is reasonably isolated to the outside.
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | https://www.google.com/search?q=are+saunas+energy+efficient
        
         | frosted-flakes wrote:
         | The rooms are small though. Is it a waste of energy to heat an
         | entire oven to bake a cake, only to let the heat all puff away?
         | It would only be a waste if you heated the sauna, but then
         | didn't use it.
        
       | ng55QPSK wrote:
       | We asked a finish colleague about smoke sauna (you heat with wood
       | and a part of the smoke is lead inside), about details and
       | reason.
       | 
       | Answer: We don't need a reason for sauna.
        
         | nabla9 wrote:
         | Former US ambassador to Finland, Bruce Oreck had an unusual
         | smoke sauna experience
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogQW27oJ3YU
         | 
         | To be clear: The smoke comes inside only when you heat the
         | sauna and goes out trough small opening in the wall. You bath
         | after the fire is out, not when the sauna is full of smoke.
         | 
         | What is left is the smell of smoke in the walls.
        
           | emerongi wrote:
           | This is correct, however you will still breathe in smoke
           | "residue", which can be a bit uncomfortable and it will also
           | cling to your body/hair. Even if you wash thoroughly after
           | the sauna, you will notice a smoke smell on your hair.
           | 
           | A smoke sauna is just an inferior version of the modern
           | Finnish sauna. It's a bit of a hassle to prepare and I
           | personally dislike the "smoke effect".
        
             | nabla9 wrote:
             | I agree.
             | 
             | So called "aitokiuas" type stoves replicates the gentle
             | heat feeling that comes from heat storing smoke sauna
             | without the smoke. They can be electric or wood stoves.
             | 
             | https://narvi.fi/en/product/aitokiuas-ak47-ak57k/
        
         | trutannus wrote:
         | Estonians also are big on saunas. I could not find a single
         | property listing which did not include a sauna. Guess I'll have
         | to get into saunas...
        
         | pasiaj wrote:
         | Finns rarely discuss or think about benefits or reasons for
         | taking a sauna.
         | 
         | Most Finns are accustomed to going to sauna weekly. It's such
         | an ingrained part of our live that don't really think about it.
         | 
         | We've got 5 million people and 2,5 million saunas.
         | 
         | Sauna is free from distractions like electronics, it's free of
         | associations relating to productivity and work, so it becomes a
         | meditation of sorts, but we usually don't try to make it so.
         | 
         | Sauna is sauna. Sauna's purpose is sauna. The benefit of sauna
         | is sauna.
        
           | neocodesoftware wrote:
           | thats a direct quote from the miracle of mindfulness
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | That is a more verbose reply than I would have expected in
         | response to a question like that, and I'm not even joking
        
           | gorkempacaci wrote:
           | I take it you have't met many Finnish people.
        
             | vanderZwan wrote:
             | I live in Sweden, so I have, and most of them would have
             | just given me the Finnish piercing blank stare of "why are
             | you hurting my brain with stupid questions like that?"
        
         | rebuilder wrote:
         | That's not exactly what a smoke sauna is. It's a sauna with a
         | big load of stone that's heated up over a long time. There's no
         | chimney, so once the heating is done and the fire has died out,
         | the smoke is aired out. The large thermal mass of the stone
         | keeps the sauna hot.
         | 
         | As for the reason, the design is just really old. It's how you
         | heat a sauna when you don't have a chimney. As a side effect,
         | the long heating, the large thermal mass, and supposedly the
         | soot that collects on the walls combine to produce a reputedly
         | smoother experience with the heat seeming to be more even than
         | in a more modern sauna.
        
           | ng55QPSK wrote:
           | You are right, i was short on the description. But main point
           | is: There is no point in asking questions.
        
           | Ilikesauna wrote:
           | Most saunas are great. I had the opportunity to restore a
           | 100+ yr smoke sauna[0] some years ago. Definitely a more
           | special experience in the smoke sauna imo. But im biased :)
           | [0]http://www.siimut.ee/cv/gal-sauna/
        
       | throwawaysea wrote:
       | During COVID do public saunas require masks? Is that safe given
       | the hot conditions? More generally what do sauna experienced
       | people suggest we look for in selecting a place?
        
       | allenleein wrote:
       | Sauna saved my life in some way.
       | 
       | I was suffering from idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis for almost a
       | year in 2019. I was devastated both physically and mentally.
       | 
       | Two months before COVID, after watched Laird Hamilton's interview
       | about Sauna, I started to do Sauna 20mins-25mins and practice
       | meditation every day after a workout. After doing it for three
       | months, I fully recovered from the IPF.
        
         | cma wrote:
         | Did it stop progressing, or did the sauna reverse the scar
         | tissue?
        
           | allenleein wrote:
           | It only stops progressing. According to my doctor, the scar
           | tissue is impossible to reverse. Luckily, It didn't affect my
           | cardiovascular ability. I can still surf big waves like a
           | normal surfer.
        
             | keshet wrote:
             | I recently saw an article about reversing fibrosis in mouse
             | studies using an FDA-approved drug, e.g.: https://www.scien
             | cedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210823170126.h...
             | 
             | If I google "pulmonary fibrosis reversal" a number of
             | things come up although they all appear to still be in the
             | research phase. Never say never.
        
       | iombi3 wrote:
       | Sponsored by sauna businesses
        
         | fsloth wrote:
         | Actually there is lots of peer reviewed research supporting the
         | idea that sauna is good for you. E.g.
         | 
         | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
         | 
         | This is by Finnish researchers. Finland has no "sauna industry"
         | that would need lobbying, everyone basically has one or has
         | access to one alredy.
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | This is kind of like why in America there's no advertising
           | for sodas because everyone buys them already.
        
             | fsloth wrote:
             | That's just it. In Finland sauna is something that is an
             | expected utility in a house like a bedroom or toilet. So
             | while there is research in how sleep or toilet behaviour
             | affects health, there is no "bedroom" industry trying to
             | upsell the benefit of having a distinct room for your bed,
             | or a toilet industry convincing you it's a good idea to use
             | the loo.
        
           | ng55QPSK wrote:
           | btw: It's only a rumor that every Nokia office has a sauna.
        
         | cromulent wrote:
         | "Rhonda P. Patrick, Ph.D. and Teresa L. Johnson receive funding
         | from FoundMyFitness.com, a science journalism website."
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | reactspa wrote:
           | Rhonda Patrick actually founded FoundMyFitness.com .
           | 
           | Is there a name for this? ... when people try to get their
           | views to look more legitimate by claiming their research
           | received grants from legit-sounding institutions that they
           | also happen to own? Dean Ornish and Deepak Chopra are some of
           | the originators of this concept.
        
           | ycstohley wrote:
           | Rhonda IS FoundmyFitness you absolute numpty. Me cago en la
           | leche de tu puta madre
        
       | arisAlexis wrote:
       | I am frequently paranoid about things that people don't think.
       | One of those is inhaling microparticles from whatever
       | wood/plastic combos get overheated there.
        
         | bagacrap wrote:
         | but if that were really a problem wouldn't the effect show up
         | in studies
        
       | teucris wrote:
       | Did anyone else think of Jitterbug Perfume[0] when they read this
       | headline?
       | 
       | 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitterbug_Perfume
        
         | SuoDuanDao wrote:
         | Huh. Never heard of that novel, but now I'm wondering why
         | perfume seems to feature so frequently in french-influenced
         | literature.
        
       | mastax wrote:
       | From what I remember of Veritasium's video on ageing
       | (https://youtu.be/QRt7LjqJ45k) there is evidence to support the
       | idea that various activities which are stressful for the body are
       | good at slowing or even reversing ageing. They mentioned fasting,
       | aerobic exercise, and exposure to cold temperatures, so it would
       | make sense to me that saunas would work similarly.
        
         | jahnu wrote:
         | Great Interview here which touches on that too
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000w9t5
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sabujp wrote:
       | veritasium has a video about this that basically says the same
       | thing about stressing the body (e.g. expose yourself to cold, eat
       | less protein, do strenuous exercise) :
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRt7LjqJ45k , extreme heat would
       | probably also have the same effect
        
       | albertzeyer wrote:
       | I go to the sauna regularly for over 30 years now. My parents
       | have a Finish electric dry sauna at home in Germany. Also we did
       | vacation in Finland regularly. And I lived in Finland for a year.
       | 
       | Sometime in the 90ties, saunas became quite common in Germany for
       | some reason. Initially it was only some single saunas in addition
       | to some fun pool. Later that expanded to more and more saunas,
       | and then we got whole sauna areas with 10-20 different saunas,
       | and they became very common. We have many of such places now in
       | every bigger city. Those sauna areas have lots of events like
       | putting water with different herbs on the hot stones every 30
       | minutes in different saunas, where you also get fresh fruits,
       | drinks or other things. These 10-20 saunas cover all common
       | styles like Finish, Russian, Turkish, and many others.
       | 
       | We also have a sauna at our university in Germany (probably also
       | not really uncommon).
       | 
       | It's not just very relaxing. Which by itself is already very
       | nice. Esp also after some extensive sport session.
       | 
       | But it's also a very nice social event. At the university, it's
       | always nice to chat with lots of different people. When I lived
       | in Finland (Erasmus), we also had a sauna at our student hostel,
       | and basically every other place as well. It was always a regular
       | event.
       | 
       | It's also interesting to see the cultural differences.
       | 
       | In Germany, everyone is naked, and the atmosphere varies a lot,
       | depending where you go. Often it's quiet (more expensive public
       | places), sometimes it's chatty (e.g. university), sometimes it
       | can be annoying (cheap public places).
       | 
       | In Finland, you also have public saunas, but nothing like these
       | big sauna areas like in Germany. It's usually 1-3 saunas, and you
       | wear swimming trunks. The student hostel sauna was probably a bit
       | special due to the Erasmus students. Sometimes we went with other
       | Finish students to their private saunas. They usually put lots of
       | water on the hot stones.
       | 
       | I also visited a friend once in Russia in Yekaterinburg. We also
       | went to sauna a lot with other local friends of him, and also in
       | our hotel. Russians put even much more water on the hot stones,
       | and usually stay shorter in it (10 minutes or so), but make it
       | hotter, and go more often.
       | 
       | That was just my experience.
        
         | awillen wrote:
         | What is an infusion in this context?
        
           | albertzeyer wrote:
           | Ah that might be a bad translation from German. When you put
           | water on the hot stones, to get some steam.
           | 
           | I just checked the English Wikipedia on sauna
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna) and it seems that the
           | English language does not have a word for this?
        
       | jonahbenton wrote:
       | Am curious about comparatives between sauna and cryo. Extremes of
       | all kinds encourage certain protective/restorative responses in
       | these biological machines.
        
         | ReptileMan wrote:
         | Why not both? Usually during the winter you have access to
         | extremely cold showers. Where I live it is what we do - fight
         | with snowballs outside or in the pool and then in the sauna
        
           | hkt wrote:
           | ..where do you live? Sounds like a great tradition!
        
         | bitL wrote:
         | Do both in a series, e.g. 5x sauna interleaved with 5x cryo.
         | That works wonders but you need to get used to it so start
         | slowly.
        
         | DeBraid wrote:
         | > Heat shock proteins are produced by cells in response to
         | exposure to stressful conditions (heat, cold, UV light, and
         | during wound healing or tissue remodeling)
         | 
         | > Many members of this group function to stabilize new proteins
         | to ensure correct folding or by helping to refold proteins that
         | were damaged by the cell stress.
         | 
         | Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_shock_protein
        
         | OrvalWintermute wrote:
         | I have read numerous things about the benfits of sauna, and
         | fairly minimal downsides if healthy, and not mixed with
         | drugs/alcohol and done in moderation.
         | 
         | Although I love cold weather, and grew up some years in a
         | fairly cold area, the concern I have about varying cryo
         | treatment is the difference between passive cryo, and active
         | cryo therapies involving exertion. This because of the well-
         | known relationship between cold and heart attacks stemming from
         | exercise with cold, often seen in snow shoveling [1], [2].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.hallmarkchannel.com/home-and-family/how-
         | to/cold-...
         | 
         | [2] https://www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/the-heart-risk-
         | that-c...
        
         | throw1234651234 wrote:
         | I feel like there is a balance here somewhere that the
         | proponents never talk about - there is definitely a too much.
         | Also, as with anything, the benefits are vastly overstated.
         | Tangentially related - cold showers - when you read about them,
         | it's some magic thing, when you do it, you just get used to it
         | in a couple of days and it doesn't do much anything for you.
         | 
         | Fasting for 3 days (with water). Nothing happens. You maybe
         | lose half a pound of fat if you walk for 4+ hours on the last
         | day.
         | 
         | Etc.
         | 
         | Anyway, the core point is that there is a significant shock if
         | you jump from a sauna into a cold pool. Don't try it after
         | reading and then get a heart attack.
        
       | nyjah wrote:
       | I sauna every single day. I started about 4 years ago. When I got
       | my sauna I could only go for 2-3 minutes at time without having
       | to take a break. Now I am comfortable for 15 minutes and
       | struggling for last 5-7 minutes. I usually go 20-22 minutes at
       | 175-195F. I enjoy it, I have no idea if there are major health
       | effects. Its always rejuvenating in the moment and relaxing
       | after.
       | 
       | I bought an old school one. I ordered from
       | https://almostheaven.com/ and it was a great delivery experience
       | so I recommend them, but there are plenty of other sauna
       | companies out there. And the infrared is just not something I am
       | familiar with so I stayed away. I purchased the small 4 person
       | sauna, but got the bigger heater to get it hotter quicker. I
       | don't regret it, but I don't recommend it either.
        
         | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
         | I actually just built a 6 person one from the same vendor last
         | week and am extraordinarily happy with it. There were some
         | minor flaws (the packing on the pallet was undesirable and
         | several of the staves were warped) but overall it is a good
         | product from a reputable vendor that I feel like I will use for
         | the rest of my life.
        
           | nyjah wrote:
           | Nice. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed mine.
           | Some tips if you are a newbie:
           | 
           | -when you get in: splash some water on your jewelry. -And
           | bathrobes. Love a good wrap in a bathrobe after a sauna.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Did you have a room in your house that you used, or is an
         | outdoor sauna?
         | 
         | I thought about an outdoor sauna but I'm worried it would
         | become just another insect and spider habitat that I don't want
         | to go near...
        
         | jliptzin wrote:
         | I have the same unit from them, it's great. But I am worried
         | about how long it will last - is yours covered or did you add
         | any protective coating to the outside wood?
        
           | nyjah wrote:
           | Outside wood? Is your sauna outside? Or the wood on the
           | outside of the sauna?
           | 
           | I didn't protect mine, just put it together from the factory.
           | But mine is indoors. I think the wood will need replacing
           | within the next 4 years probably, but the heater seems like
           | it will last forever.
        
           | brutopia wrote:
           | Just use it weekly and let the stove run hot an hour more
           | after you're done if there's any hint of moistness in the
           | wood. It's better to never turn the heat off immediately
           | after using. I'm a finn and the thing looks very proper with
           | the harvia stove and all
        
             | nyjah wrote:
             | This is such a great tip! Thank you!! I think this will
             | make a big difference and I can't believe I haven't been
             | doing this. I do run a dehumidifier in my basement where
             | the sauna is located, but I think keeping the heat on for
             | an hour after is a game changer for longevity.
             | 
             | A couple of the things that surprised me when I got my
             | sauna was how gross it is. For me, I am lucky its a
             | personal sauna. I sweat everywhere. And people think of
             | saunas and they think of a spa, but its a workout and
             | mental challenge for me every single time.
        
               | brutopia wrote:
               | I would recommend to move it outside as there's probably
               | not enough ventilation for it to dry between uses. The
               | sweat should vaporize without trace almost within minutes
               | when the stove is hot. It doesn't need cover outside and
               | can handle rain and snow no problem. Just don't let it
               | get buried in snow for extended periods of time. The
               | possible electric connections need to be protected from
               | water though.
        
               | nyjah wrote:
               | The sweat does vaporize, but I still think keeping it hot
               | helps to clean it maybe? I also like the smell of a hot
               | sauna. The main reason I don't do that and I run the
               | dehumidifier is that I like to flip the power off to the
               | sauna at the panel when I am done, just in case. The
               | dehumidifier is heavy duty fwiw.
        
               | hutzlibu wrote:
               | Yes, it can be gross. Thats why there are rules in public
               | saunas, like shower before. Use a towel. Shower after
               | before jumping into the cold basin, ...
               | 
               | But I still would prefer my personal sauna
        
               | Geee wrote:
               | Always shower beforehand, sit on a towel or a tissue,
               | afterwards rinse the benches with some water. Wash the
               | sauna more properly a few times a year or so.
               | 
               | It sounds like it's too hot if it's a workout and a
               | mental challenge every time. It should be mostly
               | relaxing. Get out when it starts getting painful.
        
         | MaxikCZ wrote:
         | > got the bigger heater to get it hotter quicker. I don't
         | regret it, but I don't recommend it either.
         | 
         | Any speccific inconveniences with oversized heater?
        
           | nyjah wrote:
           | No. When its super hot and getting towards the end, the mind
           | starts to say 'stupid me, its too much heat from the
           | oversized heater' but when I am back to rational, I don't
           | think thats the case. I just don't think I am saving that
           | much time, so not sure if it was necessary.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | I hot tub at 100F, but the sauna is a lot hotter than that,
         | wow! And I'm only in once or twice a week, definitely not
         | daily.
        
           | konart wrote:
           | Google tells me 100F is just 37,8C. This is pretty damn cold
           | for a tub, no? Just a bit warmer than body temperature.
        
             | bengale wrote:
             | I have my hottub at 40C which is hot when you get in but
             | comfortable to sit in for a while.
        
               | liketochill wrote:
               | Me too I keep mine at 104 F
        
             | naasking wrote:
             | Have you tried walking outside in 37.8 C weather? It's
             | blistering hot. Your body should be quite a bit warmer than
             | the environment because we have to radiate heat away to
             | preserve homeostasis. 21 C is a comfortable room
             | temperature.
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | Water's specific heat capacity is such that you feel the
             | temperature right away. I've been in 39 degree hot springs
             | and it's almost too hot.
        
             | Johnny555 wrote:
             | I find 100F to be pretty warm for the hot tub, after 15
             | minutes I'm too warm and ready to get out (or sit up on the
             | top step to cool off).
             | 
             | We usually keep it at 101F in the winter (since it feels
             | nice to walk out in the cold and soak for 15 minutes) and
             | 98 in the summer -- at 97 I can stay in indefinitely, but
             | my wife gets cold at 15 minutes, so 98 is a compromise.
             | 
             | I wonder if a 100 degree hot tub has a similar benefit as a
             | hot sauna.
        
           | im3w1l wrote:
           | Water conducts heat better than air. It also disables cooling
           | by perspiration.
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | Yeah, I think most tubs are hard limited at 104 for safety
             | reasons.
        
         | ukutaht2 wrote:
         | Do you live in the states? I live in Estonia and these are the
         | types of Saunas you see eveywhere. These days more factories
         | are popping up with more interesting/modern takes on the
         | traditional sauna.
         | 
         | Shameless plug for my brother who started building luxury
         | saunas during lockdown and they ship worldwide. Check out
         | https://haljas.com
        
         | stevekemp wrote:
         | I moved to Finland, and soon settled into a routine of going
         | twice a week. Generally a session lasts for an hour or ninety-
         | minutes:
         | 
         | * Take a shower.
         | 
         | * Go to the sauna, and sit there for 10-15 minutes. Temperature
         | around 95-100.
         | 
         | * Come out, drink a beer, sometimes in the lobby, sometimes on
         | the balcony, sometimes outdoors wrapped in a towel. The latter
         | is especially satisfying in winter when the outdoor temperature
         | is -15, -20, or so.
         | 
         | * Have a shower, and go back inside.
         | 
         | The process repeats 2-4 times, until I'm nice and relaxed.
         | Monday & Friday is my average routine, but if friends are
         | coming over I might do an extra session.
        
           | trhway wrote:
           | >Temperature around 95-100.
           | 
           | lucky bastards. Judging that such setting is everywhere here
           | in US, it looks like some public standard prohibit higher
           | than 160 or something like this. Playing with the temperature
           | sensors (like cold toweling it) i usually can get it to only
           | 180-190F at some places with 195F (90C) at best.
        
             | olegious wrote:
             | Just cover the internal thermometer with a wet towel or
             | sock, that lets the temp rise beyond the low limits they
             | set.
        
             | stevekemp wrote:
             | There are often mini-saunas at the local swimming pools
             | which have similarly underwhelming temperatures.
             | 
             | They're nice, but they're not as nice. (Though I suspect in
             | my case at least partly because if I go to a pool I often
             | have a five year old with me, and he wants to leave very
             | quickly - plus I've come to associate drinking beer with
             | being near a sauna!)
        
           | Gravityloss wrote:
           | 95-100 C is hot. I prefer 65-70 C. Depends on sauna,
           | moisture, ventilation etc though.
        
           | arisAlexis wrote:
           | If you are drinking 3 beers during your breaks forget any
           | health benefit my friend
        
         | dharmaturtle wrote:
         | I built a super cheap "traditional" dry sauna. It's basically
         | an electric burner, a pot to increase surface area and
         | humidity, a 25 foot roll of thermal foil, and a sleeping bag as
         | the ceiling. I disassembled the burner, removed all the plastic
         | pieces, and short circuited the safety cutoff. It's jank AF,
         | but in the end less than 100$. AFAIK there aren't any dry
         | saunas under $1000 - the heater alone is ~$200. Mine is also
         | portable, so it's in the garage in summer and in the laundry
         | room in winter. There are portable infrared saunas for ~$100,
         | but most studies are on the "dry" type. I rubber band a block
         | of ice to my phone and do my reading/social media in there, so
         | the time cost is reduced.
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/Lml7Vms.jpg
         | 
         | About 1 year in and I haven't burned down the house... yet.
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | So you pull that tube over yourself and then cover the top
           | with the sleeping bag? No worries about air circulation or
           | passing out? Is it pitch black in there?
        
             | dharmaturtle wrote:
             | > So you pull that tube over yourself and then cover the
             | top with the sleeping bag?
             | 
             | Yep. Ghetto AF. That's why the chair is there to elevate
             | the sleeping bag - otherwise I wouldn't be able to reach
             | the sleeping bag from inside the tube.
             | 
             | > No worries about air circulation or passing out?
             | 
             | Circulation is fine. It's far from airtight - air creeps in
             | from the bottom through the cracks, and I can always just
             | open a small hole in the "ceiling" if needed. Never done it
             | though cause it doesn't get stuffy. Haven't passed out,
             | though that would be seriously dangerous since the heating
             | element is exposed and I'd likely be burned.
             | 
             | > Is it pitch black in there?
             | 
             | Yes, so that's why there's a nightlight on an extension
             | cable in the pic. Also a flashlight on my phone.
        
       | hkt wrote:
       | If the benefits come from mild hyperthermia, doesn't that mean
       | they can also be achieved by having a bath that is slightly too
       | hot?
        
         | sova wrote:
         | Yes, I think they would be about the same, although when you
         | sweat in a sauna it goes to the floor, whereas in a bathtub it
         | hangs out in the bathwater. So as far as cleansing of toxins
         | goes, maybe one is better than the other. There was another
         | article exploring the Japanese custom of bathing at onsen, and
         | how it is also loosely linked to extended lifespan, so I
         | believe you are correct with your statement.
        
           | eli wrote:
           | Toxins?
        
             | jwiz wrote:
             | They are like evil spirits.
        
             | brianwawok wrote:
             | I believe there are some heavy metals that you can only
             | really get out of your body via sweating. But "granola"
             | people have built up a whole story about sweating and toxin
             | clearing that AFAIK has no basis in science.
        
               | NavinF wrote:
               | Citation needed for that first part. A quick google says
               | there is no evidence that sweating out toxins improves
               | health and the liver and kidneys remove far more toxins
               | than sweat glands
        
               | brianwawok wrote:
               | Right it's right up there with getting your back cracked
               | to improve digestion
               | 
               | https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/w
               | ell...
        
               | sova wrote:
               | It's probably hard to measure, but subjectively one feels
               | better and thinks more clearly, so call it what you will.
               | Saying that something is not affirmed by science is not
               | equivalent to saying it is denied by science.
        
             | sova wrote:
             | Fresh air is usually nicer than stale, old air. And when
             | one sweats out "old water" it gets replaced by the fresh
             | water one intakes. I bet if we collected enough sweat from
             | sauna-goers and sprinters we would find things in it that
             | you would rather have not in your body. Of course, I can
             | already hear the chorus of indolence cheer "there's no
             | science to support this claim" and yet there is also no
             | science to deny it. The body is a gigantic circulatory
             | system, out with the old, in with the new, I don't see why
             | it would be any different with sweat.
        
           | MauranKilom wrote:
           | > Yes, I think they would be about the same, although when
           | you sweat in a sauna it goes to the floor, whereas in a
           | bathtub it hangs out in the bathwater. So as far as cleansing
           | of toxins goes, maybe one is better than the other.
           | 
           | This seems nonsensical. During the activity, bathing has your
           | sweat diluted by a factor of at least 100, whereas your skin
           | remains covered in sweat in a sauna. Afterwards, you remove
           | the sweat (rinsing and/or towel) in both cases.
        
             | yazaddaruvala wrote:
             | Dry saunas don't work this way.
             | 
             | Your sweat in a dry sauna is a way for your body to cool
             | itself, while you always "feel wet" you're actually
             | constantly evaporating sweat off you.
             | 
             | In fact, if you ever stop sweating in a dry sauna, leave.
             | You are de-hydrated and it's no longer safe for you in a
             | sauna.
        
         | zkelvin wrote:
         | No, it wouldn't.
         | 
         | Health benefits from dry sauna start at a minimum of around
         | 170oF, but more typically at 180oF, and often up to 195oF. A
         | "slightly too hot bath" would be around maybe 110oF. Water at
         | 170oF would scald you within seconds.
         | 
         | Infrared sauna typically heats up to 150oF, but this heats you
         | from the inside, and so has a similar efficacy to 180oF dry
         | sauna.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | The question is "did it trigger hyperthermia" not "was the
           | thing that caused hyperthermia 170 degrees". A bath does not
           | need to be anywhere near 170 degrees to trigger the same
           | level of hyperthermia since it is able to store and deliver
           | heat much more efficiently than air (hence why 170 degree
           | water would severely burn you).
           | 
           | Remember your core body temperature need only change a degree
           | or two to trigger strong responses from the body. After about
           | 5 degrees you're into hyperpyrexia which is life threating.
        
         | rebuilder wrote:
         | Or cold/hot showers. Although, a sauna is pleasant, cold/hot
         | showers are _not_.
        
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