[HN Gopher] Steam Top 50 Games: Over 70% now work on Linux
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Steam Top 50 Games: Over 70% now work on Linux
Author : ekianjo
Score : 427 points
Date : 2021-09-11 14:27 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (boilingsteam.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (boilingsteam.com)
| 41209 wrote:
| I'd attribute this more to the standardization of game engines.
|
| Once you figure you how to get most Unity games working on Linux
| , you cover most games. Even if you don't want to export a native
| binary .
|
| I'm very excited for Steam Deck !
| hakfoo wrote:
| I wish virtualization was a bit less awkward for GPU-intensive
| stuff.
|
| A VM with a stripped-bare Windows 10 install is likely to be more
| compatible with weird anti-cheat and DRM than anything Wine-
| based. Unless they intentionally add sniffing for it.
|
| But VM with a GPU is a nightmare: for nVidia cards at least, you
| need two cards (one for the Linux desktop and one to feed into
| the VM), and there's a lot of explicit feature-limitation gotchas
| beyond that to market-segment people into buying Quadro cards
| instead.
|
| I'm not opposed to the concept of having a Windows install
| (especially if it's something like a VM that you can readily
| manage and keep in a known state) but dual-booting is annoying--
| gaming isn't spontaneous anymore.
|
| TBH, I wonder if eventually you'll see a Microsoft product
| specifically sold as "Windows Runtime for Virtual Machines" --
| better to sell a cut-down version with just enough bits to
| support popular games for $50 than to lose the sale entirely.
| thegeekpirate wrote:
| https://github.com/DualCoder/vgpu_unlock
| kaladin-jasnah wrote:
| While probably violating a bunch of ToSes, this does work,
| but its performance is probably not the best from what I
| remember.
| samtheprogram wrote:
| > A VM with a stripped-bare Windows 10 install is likely to be
| more compatible with weird anti-cheat and DRM than anything
| Wine-based. Unless they intentionally add sniffing for it.
|
| Performance under Wine would be far better than virtualizing
| the entire OS, and most anti-cheat systems do prevent playing
| in a VM as their virtual device drivers are a ripe target for
| abuse.
| 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
| I recently tried ubuntu again for my desktop. I've seen so many
| posts here about how things have improved. It couldn't register
| my wireless card and all the directions I found said to run CLI
| commands that required internet access to fix the fact that I
| couldn't access the internet...
|
| It seems like Ubuntu is still having the same issues I remember
| over a decade ago. I booted back into windows and it #JustWorked.
| I get the chicken and egg problem involved, but god damn, how is
| this still the problem?
| xondono wrote:
| Well... it's ubuntu
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| "Use a different distro" is the best advice any Linux person
| could possibly give, because no matter what distro you use
| they can still say it!
| arepublicadoceu wrote:
| I mean, I love Linux as much as anyone, but Linux fans should
| be careful throwing "just works" label for Linux.
|
| It's heavily hardware dependent, thus users like yourself reads
| about improvements (which is true) but then crash on networks
| or nvidia "walls".
|
| If your usage differs a bit (hidpi, mixed DPIs displays, nvidia
| optimus, etc) you're in for a hell of a experience.
| pxc wrote:
| > And [Valve] have committed to bringing all Steam titles to the
| Steam Deck running SteamOS[.]
|
| By launch time? As an on-and-off Linux gamer who is a huge fan of
| Valve's Linux work, this is worrying. How can they possibly
| deliver on this? If they promise this and it's not there at
| launch time, that could doom the Steam Deck even if it's very
| good.
|
| What are they going to do, start kicking titles off Steam if they
| don't have Linux ports? Something like that seems like the only
| way to meet that guarantee. That seems insane, but maybe if
| Proton is in really good shape they can get away with saying
| something like
|
| > Hey, you have one year to add Steam Deck support to your game.
| Initial testing indicates that Proton will get you 80% of the way
| there already, but we're here to help you finish the last 20% if
| you reach out any time in the next 10 months.
|
| But idk, that seems like a huge gamble and it's the only way I
| can picture them making good on that promise.
| thioordc wrote:
| The biggest problem is anti cheat software. As soon as they
| figure that out it'll get a lot higher!
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Cheat software is a problem, too. CheatEngine with game scripts
| works only under Windows. Clever use of it can vastly improve
| gaming experience on some games.
| anonymousab wrote:
| 100%. Cheat Engine is an excellent tool for working around
| old odd mechanics that don't quite work right or were
| balanced against gamer expectations from an era that was very
| different from today. Or just as a tool for bypassing game
| design decisions that you happen to disagree with.
|
| Sometimes you get games that have a fully feature dev console
| and you can do it all in-game, but that's sadly much rarer
| these days.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| I mostly used it in Rome: Total War to keep enemy
| settlements population high. With Huge army sizes, computer
| players quickly deplete their manpool and can't field a
| decent army, leaving you with no opposition once you
| survive the first onlsaught. So I locked in their cities
| pops to the max.
|
| Or I do it to fight boring grinding, because at my age I
| don't have time for such meaningless activities
| CTOSian wrote:
| not exactly, I ve played some games (last time was the metro
| 2033) under wine and cheat engine (under wine too) worked.
| Also there is (linux) Gameconqueror/scanmem that work with
| wine games as well (you need to target the game's ".exe"
| process).
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Gameconqueror works, but it is far inferior to cheatengine,
| especially with preset mem locations for various games
| (there is a ton of them on fearless revolution forum).
|
| But CE never worked for me on Linux, quitting immediately.
| Maybe I'll give in another try when I have a chance to
| play.
| CTOSian wrote:
| I know what you mean, I had the same issues at the past
| with different distos/wine versions (I am on Fedora now).
| Also make sure you use the same WINEPREFIX for both the
| game/cheat-engine. It's a mixed bag anyway :(
| smoldesu wrote:
| To my knowledge, most major anti-cheat has _both_ native Linux
| and Wine compatibility modes (like EAC), but most studios
| disable Linux support altogether. One of Valve 's mission
| statements with the Steam Deck was to use it to leverage
| vendors into adding Linux support for their games (e.g. See, it
| runs fine! All you have to do is enable Linux support to get on
| our platform, we'll handle the rest.)
| neilsimp1 wrote:
| And with the Steam Deck coming, Valve is working hard on
| solving this problem. I think by next year, I will never be
| needing to boot my Windows VM.
| captn3m0 wrote:
| I never play AAA games with anti-cheat, so it doesn't bother me
| much, but this is still exciting.
|
| >The developer or Rust has already confirmed that on his devkit
| EAC was working as expected on the Steam Deck with SteamOS -
| while it will apparently require some modifications from the
| devs themselves to make it work (not as seamless as Proton
| itself).
|
| SteamDeck, even if it doesn't break any sale records should
| still be enough to prove the viability of a gaming console PC
| that doesn't need Windows.
| thioordc wrote:
| You and me are in the same boat. I don't like multiplayer
| games and most AAA games aren't my cup of tea so out of the
| ~20 games I really play all of them work great!
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| You're right in a general sense, but it's a bit deeper -- and
| shallower -- than that. Battlefield 4, for instance, runs some
| kind of server-side thing (FairFight) and wants ye olde hoary
| PunkBuster running on the client.
|
| Obviously, the installer tries to install and start PB then
| errors out quite spectacularly, as one might imagine such a
| program to do in a wine prefix, but then you can just download
| the PB executable and run it in the wine prefix post-install no
| problem. Origin plays surprisingly nicely, too, though it
| generates a total of _six_ windows that you can 't close during
| play or it freaks out. There _is_ some additional fuckery
| required; Wine 's networking needs a bit of massaging to allow
| BF4 to advertise its ping to multiplayer servers, and you'll
| get kicked if you've got a ping of "-". [0]
|
| Thing is, though, Proton is Wine-and-allied-trades. In the
| fullness of time I suspect new BF4 players won't have to jump
| through these hoops as Proton generally, and its script for BF4
| specifically, gets updated. And others are already racing
| ahead, too, borrowing from and providing for Valve's fork of
| it. GloriousEggroll, recommended for BF4 [1], is the most
| robust varietal currently.
|
| Multiplayer in a general sense is going to be a little bit more
| difficult to enable than merely waiting for updates, IMO. I'm
| not savvy enough to properly understand the arguments, but I've
| read that the translation layers for graphics, DXVK et al,
| could easily be repurposed by clever enough end-users to eg
| wallhack by making textures transparent, etc
|
| As sibling comments point out, resistance on the part of the
| devs (or publishers?) to simply enable the Linux support that
| already exists is probably the biggest hurdle.
|
| [0] https://www.protondb.com/app/1238860
|
| [1] https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| > " _The biggest problem is anti cheat software. As soon as
| they figure that out it'll get a lot higher!_ "
|
| Doesn't "figure it out" likely mean rather invasive and user
| hostile kernel module(s) to prevent cheating? Because the
| alternative is that Linux becomes the preferred OS for cheaters
| and the game makers redouble their efforts to detect it;
| Valve's interests in promoting Linux are not necessarily
| aligned with studios' interests in promoting a cheater free
| experience.
| higherhalf wrote:
| I was wondering if memfd_secret [1] could be a part of a
| solution to this problem. Sounds like it. Of course, it'd
| require a recent kernel version, which is an obstacle.
|
| [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/865256/
| bscphil wrote:
| Given that Steam OS is going to be (already is?) built on
| top of Arch Linux, and supposing that most Steam games that
| are "Linux compatible" are going to be targeting that as a
| base platform, this might not be as big of an obstacle as
| you think (provided Steam plans to keep the OS up to date).
| ryandrake wrote:
| Call me an optimist, but "figure that out" could mean game
| developers stepping up and fixing their games to be more
| intrinsically robust to cheating. It seems kind of nuts to me
| that so much development effort has been poured into invasive
| software that invades the kernel, scans memory, reads the
| list of running processes, etc. rather than the (admittedly
| also hard) problem of designing games such that cheat
| software doesn't work as well.
|
| Reminds me of a company I worked for as a junior dev, not
| gaming related, where our bread and butter application was
| hopelessly full of crash bugs, to the point where you
| couldn't even run it for more than an hour or so continuously
| without it crashing. Instead of investing in the effort
| needed to fix the crashers, they instructed me to create a
| separate "launcher" application that stays resident, waiting
| for the application to crash, and then re-launching it saving
| as much state as possible. It felt bonkers to me but I guess
| it made sense to somebody.
| thioordc wrote:
| Could mean that. I was just commenting that most of the games
| that don't work are from anti cheat or some kind of online
| multiplayer issue.
| [deleted]
| devwastaken wrote:
| They do "work" to varying levels, but the performance is not as
| good. There's also a lack of standard tools for GPU settings like
| MSI afterburner. There's other tools that accomplish some of the
| same things, but I feel the environment would be better if valve
| or some company would be offering those tools.
| FeepingCreature wrote:
| There's radeon-profile for AMD, anyone know what the equivalent
| for NVidia is?
| jvzr wrote:
| GreenWithEnvy is such a NVIDIA-focused utility
| dpbriggs wrote:
| I've mostly switched over and it's been a fantastic experience. I
| use ProtonDB [0] to gauge whether a game will work and there's
| usually some small tips and tricks to make sure the game will run
| fine. It's nothing more than copying a run command into Steam.
|
| I've even noticed some games, like Valheim and Path of Exile, run
| better in Linux.
|
| [0] https://www.protondb.com/
| protoster wrote:
| I have a strange feeling about this tech. Doesn't this help
| cement Windows as The Standard for gaming? Feels like we're
| giving up and accepting our fate.
| VortexDream wrote:
| You mean as opposed to the last 20 years where it wasn't the
| standard? That ship has sailed. If Linux wants to stay relevant
| to end users (particularly gamers), it needs to be accessible.
| Proton makes gaming on Linux accessible, regardless of what the
| Linux purists may prefer.
|
| I'd be using Linux full-time if I knew all the games I played
| would work on Linux. They don't, so I end up using Windows way
| more than I'd like. Proton is the only way out of that.
| bluesign wrote:
| Only 3 in top 10 though
| xorfish wrote:
| It seems to be 4 out of the top 10.
| asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
| Four, it looks like. But of the games in the top ten that work
| on Linux, only one (GTA V) is not from Valve. Definitely seems
| like the year of Linux gaming on the desktop has not yet
| arrived, although we're closer than we used to be. Great work
| by Valve to get us this far.
|
| Also worth noting that a number of actual top ten games are not
| on Steam. Valorant, league of legends, warzone, escape from
| tarkov, and Fortnite all are not available on that platform.
| (Some of these may not be top ten -- it's hard to know because
| we don't have solid numbers, but they are all in the top 20 of
| twitch viewership.)
| spijdar wrote:
| I wasn't aware GTA was a Valve game ;-)
|
| I'm guessing the rest, being primarily multiplayer games, are
| blocked by some anti-cheat/DRM scheme. Hopefully Valve can
| work out some compromise to get those working on Wine/Proton.
| asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
| Maybe my comment was unclear. I said "all but one of them"
| and by "them" I meant, "the ones that work on Linux." The
| "but one" is referring to GTA, which you correctly observe
| is not a Valve game, as I did also in my comment. I edited
| to clarify.
| spijdar wrote:
| Ah, sorry, I must have missed that. Maybe I need another
| cup of coffee...
| Thaxll wrote:
| "work" it's a lie, they don't work like they do on windows.
|
| - performance can be really bad
|
| - lot of bugs that you don't have on windows
|
| - the usual go tweak this cfg file and try this
|
| Look at that for example, what they consider working "gold":
| https://www.protondb.com/app/275850
| yusi-san wrote:
| I actually tried No Man's Sky on linux few days ago and I had
| no real performance issues. Everything ran fine on ultra with a
| 21:9 1440p monitor and a 2080.
|
| I do agree that the performances are no the same than on
| Windows (15-20% less FPS on average).
|
| I don't know about the official proton for No Man's Sky, but I
| used the Glorious Eggroll's fork[0].
|
| [0]: https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom
| smoldesu wrote:
| I play No Mans Sky at 1440p on my 1050ti. Framerate hovers
| around the upper 90s, I frankly couldn't be happier. I also
| didn't need to tweak anything to get it running, which was not
| the case on Windows at all...
| ubercow13 wrote:
| ProtonDB often does have comments listing workarounds,
| configuration tweaks, known issues, and things/patches to
| install to achieve the best results. In that sense it reads
| very much like PC Gaming Wiki, which lists all the same things
| for Windows games.
| badsectoracula wrote:
| FWIW that is the case with Windows too, which is why sites like
| pcgamingwiki[0] exists.
|
| [0] https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/
| tlamponi wrote:
| Meh, I recently thought I try that and bought Battlefield 1 on
| sale and tried it on my Debian 11 box. Once it started to
| download that Origin stuff I thought "that won't work" but it
| just did perfectly for me, no tuning needed.
|
| Some even work better, e.g., >10 years ago I had a very crappy
| ADSL connection and in Counterstrike I got latencies of >150 ms
| with quite some jitter to >250 ms under Windows and even got
| kicked off from some servers for that :(
|
| cue to WINE and running it under Linux (IIRC I was using
| openSUSE then) and I got 80 to 90 ms stable on the same
| servers, I think that was the time I decided for myself that
| I'll never go back again, and so I dropped my dual-boot setup
| in favor of Linux only.
| pkulak wrote:
| What sucks is that only 4 of the top 10 work. Once Steam and the
| anti-cheat folks figure out how to get that stuff working, we're
| really going to be in business. It's not like PUBG relies on
| DirectX 12 ray-tracing APIs or something exotic.
| unixhero wrote:
| Love Steam. Love Linux. Love Gaming.
| Salgat wrote:
| How much of this is native support instead of windows
| compatibility layers? Don't get me wrong, it's great either way,
| but it's very telling of the motivations of the developers and
| how much they prioritize Linux.
| gtk40 wrote:
| Granted my favorite video game is an updated version of something
| over 20 years old (AOE2DE), but I use Proton for a Windows-only
| game all the time and it works like a charm. I've done some other
| small games with friends and everything on Steam has worked
| either natively or with Proton. It's quite impressive.
| marcodiego wrote:
| From the link: > Among the 10 games that are
| considered borked: > > Most of them do not work
| because of EAC (8) > 2 of them because of another
| DRM/anti-cheat system
|
| Remove DRM and everything is fine.
| ekianjo wrote:
| EAC for example is not your typical DRM, it's rookit/kernel-
| level software that is very hard to emulate on Linux.
| lumost wrote:
| I'm very curious if we'll start seeing a move off of windows for
| gaming rigs with this. The 100 dollar premium for windows takes a
| big bite out of a 1000 dollar gaming rig.
| Zababa wrote:
| People pay $100 for Windows? There are licenses on ebay for
| less than 5EUR in Europe.
| tlamponi wrote:
| If you buy a laptop here it's ~100EUR cheaper without an OS
| or Linux on it, so even if you want to use Windows you should
| buy the cheaper version and get a 5EUR OEM key or the like.
| An additional benefit to that: less HW vendor crap installed.
|
| At least that was the case with the Lenovo laptops I
| personally and also the company I work for (Linux shop)
| bought.
| novok wrote:
| I think what you are being charged is a form of retail
| markup, by lenovo. They are paying $10-$15 max for that
| license. It wouldn't make sense on their cheaper laptops
| where they do not give you the option of linux or no OS,
| otherwise the laptop would lose money.
|
| AFAIK the PC market is low margin, and the only place they
| really get margin is from all the crap ware they 'offer'
| and stuff like margins on windows licenses and such.
|
| I think microsoft has realized the real price for windows
| is $10 too, which is why they are adding all the adware
| crap in it. Otherwise it's not tenable as a business for
| them, even if they are a selling a huge volume of it.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Windows 12 might be free. And then have premium sub with
| more features like O365...
| Qi_ wrote:
| Some people don't like gray-market licenses. I'm not one of
| them, but they definitely exist.
| mt_ wrote:
| For me, Windows 11 is the last straw. Once Microsoft moves on
| from 10 to 11, I'll move on to Linux full time.
| skohan wrote:
| Come on in, the water is fine :)
| [deleted]
| smoldesu wrote:
| It's hard to say for sure... if you're interested in more
| competitive, trendy shooters, then you're out of luck. Rainbow
| Six Siege and Fortnite are both perpetually broken, which makes
| it a pretty hard sell to the up-and-coming audience of younger
| nerds.
|
| On the other hand, the games it _does_ work with are nearly
| flawless. I play Overwatch, Splitgate, and Battlefield online
| pretty regularly without issue, and single-player titles like
| The Sims, Rimworld and Noita function out-of-the-box. With more
| and more games "just working" on the platform, I think in 2 or
| 3 years it will be particularly competitive with Windows 11.
| Today though? It's a bit of a mixed bag.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Work and work well are two different things and most
| importantly the question is what's in those 72% because you
| have like 1% of Steam games which have like 80% of the player
| base at any given moment and a lot of AAA titles and popular
| multiplayer games don't work on Linux or can even get you
| banned if you play them due to anticheat issues.
|
| Also if you bought Windows 7 so far you could've updated it
| upto 11 without paying anything extra if you leveraged the
| update Windows that Microsoft offered.
| pdpi wrote:
| The list is precisely composed of that 1% -- it's 36 out of
| the top 50 games by max concurrent players.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Out of the top 10, 6 are "No Go" and technically 7 if you
| count the fact that the player count for GTA V is based on
| GTA Online which still constantly issues bans when running
| on Linux due to anti cheat mishaps.
|
| This list also overlooks other very popular games that
| aren't on Steam like Call of Duty Warzone and Fortnite...
| Crespyl wrote:
| > This list also overlooks other very popular games that
| aren't on Steam
|
| Well yes, it is, as the title makes pretty clear, the top
| 50 games _on Steam_. That said, non-Steam games can work
| just fine with Proton, wrappers like Lutris make this
| only a couple clicks more than Steam.
|
| Fortnite is limited by EAC:
| https://lutris.net/games/fortnite/, and I'm not very
| familiar with Warzone but I suspect it's a similar
| situation.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Non native multiplayer games are quite often a no go,
| which was my gripe with putting GTA V on the list since
| the concurrent player base is nearly all due to GTAO and
| if you run it on Linux through proton you risk a ban.
| skohan wrote:
| Most work quite well in my experience. I have run into small
| issues, like videos not playing, and sometimes games do not
| run at launch and take some time to patch, but all in all
| gaming on Linux has been a surprisingly good product
| experience.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| My only issue is that multiplayer still won't work e.g. for
| games that use EasyAnticheat or other software that doesn't
| have native support for Linux or you'll get banned or
| kicked the latter of which happened to me in a few titles
| over the past 2-3 years.
|
| Basically unless they have a native version or a developer
| which officially endorses proton MP is often out of the
| question because it either won't work/ban risk or the game
| doesn't have client anti cheat detection which means in
| many cases it would be ripe with cheaters.
| skohan wrote:
| Yeah I don't really play multiplayer games so YMMV.
| shantara wrote:
| I would consider cutscene videos not playing to be more
| than just a small issue for story driven games.
| skohan wrote:
| Idk in my experience it was more like the publisher intro
| video at the beginning of the game. Most games these days
| use in-engine cutscenes.
| macNchz wrote:
| I built a pretty beefy workstation last year, mostly for
| software dev but with a high end GPU so I could check out new
| games. I installed Ubuntu and Windows 10 on it from the start
| and figured I'd boot into Windows to play games, but so far
| basically everything I've wanted to play has run fine on Linux.
| I haven't booted into Windows in months.
| skohan wrote:
| Similar story for me. I installed Ubuntu a few years ago to
| try out proton, fully expecting to boot most of the time into
| Windows, and I could count on one hand the number of times I
| have used Windows in the past year.
| gremloni wrote:
| No it doesn't, especially since a lot of us just transfer
| licenses from the old system.
| pjmlp wrote:
| It didn't happen with Steam Machines, and it won't happen now.
| skohan wrote:
| Have you tried Proton? It works great, and Valve is bringing
| quality first-party hardware this time around by every
| indication.
|
| I don't think Linux will replace Windows for gaming any time
| soon, but Linux gaming has a very real value proposition in a
| way it didn't just a few years ago.
| pjmlp wrote:
| I should I ever bother with a 2nd class experience.
|
| https://www.howtogeek.com/688970/what-was-ibms-os2-and-
| why-d...
| imtringued wrote:
| There is no first class experience if you are forced to
| use windows.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Definitely wrong, when the games are designed for Windows
| in first place, enjoy your Steam Machine.
| xeromal wrote:
| I'm just comfortable with Windows and I have no reason to move
| off of it until the transition to linux is so seamless that I
| barely have to do anything.
| ismayilzadan wrote:
| After trying to install and debug countless wifi/gpu drivers
| on debian distros during my university years, I jumped to the
| same boat as you and just continued using Windows. I pretty
| much gave up on linux desktop. However, last week (it has
| been 6 years after my graduation) after seeing many articles
| on Microsoft, Windows 11 and Manjaro Linux, I decided to give
| Manjaro a test from bootable usb drive on my new HP touch
| screen laptop. Everything works without opening terminal
| once! This is seamless enough for me.
| [deleted]
| notjustanymike wrote:
| I would 100% move to Linux if I was guaranteed the conviniences
| of windows, but that seems unlikely. When I'm in the mood for
| gaming, the last thing I want to deal with is technical issues.
| Windows has some, but they're bearable. Not sure if I can
| tolerate any more though.
| novok wrote:
| Yeah me too. What keeps me on windows for my desktop is a
| couple of pro image library software packages and games. $15
| is well worth my time to not deal with the unreliability of
| linux.
|
| I could use a mac, but they don't have justifiable storage
| costs and external storage is annoying, costs more and is
| less reliable than internal storage, and macs don't do games
| well anyway and I just built a new mini-ITX sized PC. Apple
| is also going down a path in computing I don't like, so I
| don't know if they are that viable too...
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| This has already been happening and the numbers have been going
| up for years now. [0] 100% compatibility not required as most
| gamers don't play 100% of games.
|
| [0] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/08/linux-has-finally-
| hit-...
| 0-_-0 wrote:
| Hmm, that shows a growth rate of 0.1% every 2.5 years,
| meaning the Year of our Lord 4479 A.D. might be the year of
| Linux on the desktop.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| Linux is on the desktop already. From KDE to Windows, the
| applications, DE, and compatibility layers are there to
| have it how you want.
| queuebert wrote:
| By then we'll have Microsoft Linux, for only $15, with mostly
| stolen code.
| thefr0g wrote:
| PS /c:/Home/user$ which rm
|
| /usr/Programs (x86)/del
| drran wrote:
| s/stolen/copiloted/
| konart wrote:
| > The 100 dollar premium for windows takes a big bite out of a
| 1000 dollar gaming rig.
|
| Not 100. And 1000$ is just a video card. Not a newest one too.
| gundamdoubleO wrote:
| I find it pretty hard to believe anyone with the knowledge to
| build their own rig is not getting Windows through other
| potentially dubious means.
| lumost wrote:
| I'd also go out on a small limb and bet that most gaming rigs
| are at least partially OEM. I have the knowledge to put
| together my own gaming/dev workstation - but I'd rather just
| get a prebuilt that isn't going to become a timesuck of
| crappy boot times then swap some components.
| massysett wrote:
| I built my own rig and bought Windows directly from
| Microsoft, under no circumstance am I going to risk my
| security by rummaging around in shady places for something as
| critical as an operating system.
| 0-_-0 wrote:
| You can download the ISO directly from MS and still get a
| key for 5$
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| >I'm very curious if we'll start seeing a move off of windows
| for gaming rigs with this
|
| Not even in the slightest. Linux marketshare is still
| insignificant to even Chromebooks. This is just the echo
| chamber that is HN that thinks Linux is bigger than it is.
| Remove all CS majors in the world and I'd wager the amount of
| people who've touched Linux is less than .01%
|
| Edit: I love how HN downvotes because someone gives them a
| reality check on their beloved Linux. I will give $1000 to
| anyone who is willing to give their parent who doesn't know
| jack about computers Linux and tell them "figure it out." None
| of them will be able to do it.
| indymike wrote:
| > Remove all CS majors in the world and I'd wager the amount
| of people who've touched Linux is less than .01%
|
| Android. I'd say a huge percentage of computing device users
| have Linux in their pocket and quite literally touch linux on
| regular basis.
|
| > I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their
| parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell
| them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
|
| I've done this, 10 years ago with my aging Mom and Dad and it
| worked well. Stock Kubuntu works closely enough to Windows,
| Chrome and Firefox are identical, the built in photo manager
| and video players just worked, and it put an end to malware
| and viruses. Please donate the $1000 to a local food bank,
| please. I do not what the check.
|
| Two weeks ago, my son and I re-purposed a three year old
| cryptocoin mining desktop into a gaming machine. We loaded it
| up with Kubuntu and Steam and ... well, I thought I'd have to
| install Windows. No problems. Proton lived up to the hype.
| icemelt8 wrote:
| I don't get it WHY? When Windows is more user friendly and
| has better software?
| Talanes wrote:
| >I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their
| parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell
| them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
|
| My father is tech illiterate enough that he manually searches
| and navigates to the unemployment website each week rather
| than figure out bookmarks.
|
| He's been on an Ubuntu laptop a friend gave him since late
| last year. I kept expecting to have to walk him through it,
| but it hasn't happened yet.
| approxim8ion wrote:
| I honestly don't think giving my parent who didn't know jack
| about computers Windows and telling them to figure it out
| would be a necessarily pleasant alternative either.
|
| How about we show some compassion and take time to help
| people around things, especially when they are people we care
| about and things we care about as well?
| capableweb wrote:
| > Remove all CS majors in the world and I'd wager the amount
| of people who've touched Linux is less than .01%
|
| I'm not part of the group that downvoted you, but why would
| the only people touching Linux be CS majors? I'm not a CS
| major and I think most people I know that voluntarily use
| Linux on a daily basis isn't neither.
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| I'm saying this because most people who use or are aware of
| Linux happen to be CS majors. You pull any random business
| major and they barely understand Excel. You eliminate all
| college majors and the average person that uses Linux has
| already plummeted. Regular every day computer uses want
| cheap and easy. Linux is cheap but not very easy,
| especially if you have no clue what your doing. Sure you
| can go into a forum on what to do, but what person that
| knows nothing of computers and doesn't intend on going into
| the field will bother with learning this stuff? Even myself
| I find it tedious and I know what I'm doing or can at least
| learn it pretty easily.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| " most people who use or are aware of Linux happen to be
| CS majors"
|
| As someone who taught in an accounting school where
| awareness of Linux was higher than you state, I can tell
| you this is false.
|
| Give it up already, face the fact that Linux is more
| popular and well-known than you want it to be, for
| whichever reason.
| indymike wrote:
| > I'm saying this because most people who use or are
| aware of Linux happen to be CS majors.
|
| Android is a Linux distribution it is the #1 phone OS
| (73% market share this year). ChromeOS is a Linux
| distribution and is the leading OS by market share in
| K-12 schools. Both are cheap and easy. In ChromeOS's
| case, they are easier for both administrators to manage
| and users. I'm also sure the students using Chromebooks
| have not completed their CS degrees yet, but one can
| hope.
| pjmlp wrote:
| And yet zero of Android and ChromeOS games come into
| GNU/Linux.
|
| Linux community likes to pat themselves on the back
| thanks to Android and ChromeOS using the Linux kernel,
| yet they are oblivious to the fact that Linux syscalls
| aren't part of the official stable API, only certain
| ChromeOS models do run Linux (a yet another guest OS, WSL
| style), and then what GNU/Linux gets are Electron apps.
| [deleted]
| Talanes wrote:
| >You pull any random business major and they barely
| understand Excel.
|
| I'm not sure you could pull any random Linux user and
| have them truly understand Excel either.
| pxc wrote:
| Not to mention that Linux also has users who never went to
| college
| therouwboat wrote:
| What? My mom has been using linux for 5 years and I don't
| think she even knows what windows or linux is. She calls her
| computer "the memory" or "that box".
| marcodiego wrote:
| > I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their
| parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell
| them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
|
| This is what I call the "Granma case". Considering the uses
| case is very well defined and the possibility of using exotic
| hardware and services and basically never needing to install
| any software; this is the situation where linux shines the
| brightest. My mom has being using linux having 0 idea what it
| was and needed 0 assistance to browse the web, access social
| networks, see photographs and videos and listen to music.
| That's all she does and any modern linux is much better than
| windows for this specific use case. No need to care about
| anti-virus, degrading performance, malware, advertisements...
| it is perfect for that.
| sizeofchar wrote:
| I do the same with my parents in law, and it's been like 8
| years without call for maintenance, if not for the very
| rare Ubuntu upgrade.
| skohan wrote:
| Yeah honestly 99% of what most casual user do on a computer
| is in the browser, and Linux does that just fine. And it's
| way less noisy in terms of random notifications, upgrade
| spam etc. so it is not a bad choice for unsophisticated
| users.
|
| Also things don't randomly move around so much between
| upgrades like they do on commercial OS's.
| bigbob2 wrote:
| I used to work in a small computer shop and there were some
| (presumably) 60-70 year olds who I wouldn't consider to be
| computer literate in the least running Ubuntu and even other
| distros. There were at least a couple people who refused to
| use any other OS including Windows. One such customer always
| referred to their beloved Ubuntu as "Ukabuntu" for some
| reason.
| blibble wrote:
| every Android phone runs Linux...
| pjmlp wrote:
| Which isn't part of the public APIs,
|
| https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis
| ben-schaaf wrote:
| Unlike Android, Chrome OS is actually a full fledged desktop
| GNU/Linux distribution. It's Gentoo-based (used to be Ubuntu)
| and runs desktop Linux apps.
|
| Though even outside of that you'd be surprised where people
| have unknowingly used Linux. ATMs, Point-Of-Sale,
| Infotainment (Planes/Cars), public transit, arcades, etc. I'd
| estimate that a majority of people have had some interaction
| with a Linux-based system.
|
| > I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their
| parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell
| them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
|
| One of my grandparents runs Ubuntu and they're able to handle
| their email and documents just fine. Arguably better than the
| others who run macOS/Windows. You can find plenty of similar
| anecdotes online; if all you need is a browser and possibly
| basic word processing it's not all that different.
| hparadiz wrote:
| It's not Gentoo based. It just uses portage as a package
| manager in dev mode. ChromeOS has it's own rendering system
| separate from X and Wayland entirely.
| blondin wrote:
| i understand what you are trying to say.
|
| people mentioning android have forgotten that android hides
| many parts of linux. and manufacturers make sure your device
| hardware works well with the operating system.
|
| other have mentioned relatives who are using linux on
| desktop. that they are doing limited activities such as
| browsing and emails. that's fair but the story of how they
| discovered linux would be the most interesting one.
|
| which brings me to op's cs majors point. so many things have
| changed that we should not dismiss the claim but think about
| it.
|
| do happenstances of the past still present themselves to
| people today. i discovered linux through a pc magazine back
| in the late 90s. pc magazines back then offered young people
| like myself at the time a way to try new things on the
| computer. and i did try everything.
|
| what is the equivalent of that nowadays?
| Agentlien wrote:
| I did do the same with my father-in-law, about ten years ago.
| I installed Ubuntu on his laptop and he used it for work
| (photo editing, writing articles, etc.) without any
| complaints until he got a new one from work a few years
| later.
| swarnie wrote:
| Outside of audited companies who is actually paying money for
| Windows? Seriously....
| Causality1 wrote:
| No chance at all. There are more gamers with pirated Windows
| than there are Linux gamers.
| skohan wrote:
| So you cannot imagine a world, say 5-10 years from now, where
| 100% of games work on Linux, where PC game enthusiasts choose
| a cheaper and equally capable OS?
| 0-_-0 wrote:
| You can get a key for 5-10$ and the Windows 10 crack
| KMSpico is one of the most downloaded torrents. _Cheaper_
| doesn 't work as a value proposition, it has to be better
| than Windows for people to change in large numbers and get
| used to a new OS.
|
| On the other hand, knowing gamers, I'm pretty sure many
| would change if games on Linux were 2% faster... (higher
| fps)
| skohan wrote:
| Arguably Linux is a better UX than Windows, but I know
| it's a matter of opinion.
| aseipp wrote:
| I mean, if you're just curious if literally anyone will do it,
| sure. Because you can (due to selection bias of Hacker News)
| find plenty of people here willing to say so.
|
| My prediction is twofold. First, that there's very, very little
| chance this will any have measurable impact on the overall
| proportion of Steam/PC gamers who use Windows. Solutions like
| Steam Deck will be the most popular venue for Proton, but this
| will actually sell the best with people who will _keep_ using
| Windows. Why wouldn 't it? As someone who games a lot, the only
| reason I would want one is to have my already existing library
| on the go. It essentially solves that "I wish this was on
| Switch" problem, especially for indie games. But I don't think
| of my Switch as a replacement for my PC, either. From this POV,
| it's fine if some things don't work (I'm no Warzone/Apex/League
| addict) or the mobile performance constrains things a little,
| because the accessibility and my game library is overall enough
| to offset some of those issues.
|
| But actual Windows gamers who use Windows exclusively, and are
| going to suddenly see the Steam Deck or Proton and be like,
| "Wow, now I'm going to use Linux, and move over my whole game
| library since it's obviously so great", who _aren 't_ already
| software engineering/SRE/existing Linux users? Practically non-
| existent, or so little in number to be non-existent, I'd
| predict. They don't even really pay for the Windows license as
| another comment pointed out, the OEMs do and this subsidizes
| the product (along with mass volume) even further. This is
| related to my original point: the reason your question is even
| getting responses in the positive isn't because there's some
| massive contingency of Windows gamers looking to throw away
| their install. It's because you're asking on Hacker News.
| skohan wrote:
| What do you mean "move over my whole game library"? All you
| have to do is install steam and use it just like you would on
| Windows.
| fastssd wrote:
| You are not required to pay the windows license fee. You can
| simply download an ISO off of Microsoft's website and use it,
| you only get a watermark in the corner.
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| Last time I tried that, it would not install any updates for
| Windows. Not sure if I was doing something wrong, but without
| updates this is not a good long-term solution...
| hellcow wrote:
| It's worth noting that the watermark is always visible in the
| corner, even in games.
| rygine wrote:
| you can run a script that will remove the watermark for ~4
| hours. you can run it as many times as you'd like, just
| requires a restart.
|
| since i never play a game for that long, it works out
| great.
| azalemeth wrote:
| Would you mind linking to this ISO and the T&Cs? I've only
| ever used their ISOs for VMs -- which are how I use Windows,
| occasionally and rarely -- and they have pretty harsh
| conditions like timeoutes, etc.
| the_pwner224 wrote:
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-
| download/windows10I...
|
| It works as described. One caveat: the website won't let
| you download an ISO if your browser's user-agent is set to
| Windows, instead it'll prompt you to use the Win10 media
| creation tool. But you can download the ISO if accessing
| from Linux/macOS/Android/etc., or by using a user-agent
| changer browser extension on Windows.
| bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
| Every budget gaming computer I built for friends was like
| this because budget.
| wolfd wrote:
| Fun fact: that watermark is created by explorer.exe, and if
| you're not running explorer.exe it doesn't show up. I had a
| box that went through one too many hardware changes and
| Windows decided that it wasn't on the same machine. I didn't
| bother contacting support for months because I had set the
| Windows "shell" to be steam.exe in Big Picture mode, and so I
| rarely got bothered by it.
| eloff wrote:
| I just installed win 10 pro on my MacBook with bootcamp. I
| bought a OEM license key off a sketchy site (gamers-
| outlet.net) for 4 Euros. It worked.
|
| Should upgrade free to Windows 11 too.
| bigbob2 wrote:
| I did this before in the past with a key off of eBay (no
| indication made by the seller that the key was not legit
| other than the suspiciously low price) and everything was
| fine until it came time to reformat and start fresh roughly
| a year later - at that point the key no longer worked and
| the seller vanished from eBay!
| eloff wrote:
| For me it specifically states that the key will not work
| if you reformat. That's fine.
| notimrelakatos wrote:
| You are always paying Microsoft, one way or the other.
| cute_boi wrote:
| but now you are going to pay with your data just like
| facebook etc?
| eitland wrote:
| Problem is you pay with data anyway now:
|
| Microsoft and Google show you ads regardless of if you pay
| or not.
|
| Seriously even my alarm clock app that I pay a monthly fee
| for tried to ask nicely if it was ok that they tracked me
| across web sites after Apple started enforcing their new
| rules.
|
| ---------
|
| And: If anyone has a good alarm clock app for iPhone that
| makes sure I'm out of bed before it turns off, and that is
| a one time payment or a reasonable fee or even open source
| I'm all ears.
| tlamponi wrote:
| You're doing that either way, just like you're going to see
| ads regardless of whether you paid $$$ for a Windows
| license, pirated a key or just life with the water-mark and
| other limits of an unlicensed Windows.
| swarnie wrote:
| Versions without a watermark are freely available from your
| local neighbourhood torrent site.
|
| I consider my companies 1000+ server/desktop licences payment
| enough tbh.
| noasaservice wrote:
| And with the number of computers I've bought, I've
| purchased Windows hundreds of times.
|
| I have no qualms about a pirated windows install. None. At.
| All.
| eitland wrote:
| I try to avoid Windows (it makes git and compiles slow,
| just doesn't cut it in the ux department after being
| spoiled with KDE and Elementary and they double dip by
| shoving ads in my face even after I've bought the
| Professional license) but so far I pay.
|
| Just as I'd like others to pay me if/when I release paid
| software.
|
| That said, especially after Microsoft started double
| dipping Professional licenses they cannot complain if
| ordinary users don't see the point any longer.
| noasaservice wrote:
| My primary and only justification for using windows is
| games (the 30% from the article).
|
| I do real work with Linux.
|
| But again, I've purchased windows hundreds of times, many
| of those being forced "purchases" due to smoky-back-of-
| room deals with OEMs. Frankly, MS exhausted all of my
| goodwill ages ago, and I've yet to see a real change in
| those underlying tactics.
| eitland wrote:
| A good point.
|
| MS has "sold" a fair bunch of licenses that have gone
| unused.
|
| I'll keep buying licenses if I use it - and keep telling
| people that Linux has been usable for ordinary people the
| last decade, is faster, more exciting and collect less
| data about you and your family.
|
| PS: MS employees here, your company really had the chance
| to be the serious choice but after getting ads on
| Professional licensed machines I just don't believe the
| marketing anymore.
| tomnipotent wrote:
| > compiles slow
|
| Disable Windows Defender on your source folders (or just
| altogether to see the difference). Someday MS will figure
| out a good balance with all this.
| scotty79 wrote:
| You don't have to download windows from torrents. Just
| dowload it from Microsoft. You can get rid of the watermark
| by "registering" it with a fake registration server. No
| need to download and run anything. Just copy few simple
| lines found with google into admin console.
|
| You are getting fully functional version with this. With
| updates and everything.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| OEMs buy licenses in bulk they do not pay $100 a pop and it
| doesn't get passed onto the user as a full $100 add on.
| Similarly if you're building it yourself you can buy for
| significantly less from a reseller, many of which are wholly
| legitimate.
| gpderetta wrote:
| As someone that was looking to buy a Windows key, finding a
| legitimate reseller is a non-trivial task.
| cdumler wrote:
| Are there recommendations?
| maccard wrote:
| Why not go straight to the horses mouth?
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows
| rdpintqogeogsaa wrote:
| Can confirm, that's the most straightforward way.
| jorams wrote:
| The statement that started the talk about resellers was:
|
| > Similarly if you're building it yourself you can buy
| for significantly less from a reseller, many of which are
| wholly legitimate.
|
| The horses mouth charges $140+, which is significantly
| _more_ than the $100 that was about.
| cenal wrote:
| If you only need a single copy you are best suited buying
| from Microsoft directly.
|
| If you need multiple copies you can work with a VAR
| (Value Added Reseller) to get better pricing.
|
| CDW.com is the big name in VAR's but they have enormous
| turnover in staff. I try to build relationships with
| smaller VAR's. I like these guys:
| https://greenbeetech.com/ it's a small company with two
| guys running it who have decades of VAR experience
| (former CDW people).
|
| Navigating the process of compliantly licensing Microsoft
| as you scale up is quite a job. Having a good partner to
| help your organization stay compliant is very valuable.
| grogenaut wrote:
| If you know anyone who has _ever_ worked at microsoft they
| can get you a copy with a MASSIVE discount. Living in
| Seattle I just buy all my microsoft products through
| friends.
|
| Elite controller was $99, and I laughed when it was on sale
| for like $150 last week as a best ever deal.
| gpderetta wrote:
| I did work at MS, will have to reach out to former
| colleagues :)
|
| Oh, wait the discount also applies to former employees?
|
| Edit: yes if you are part of the alumni network. It has a
| fee but it is good value. TIL.
| akvadrako wrote:
| I don't know how you tell or care why a seller is
| legitimate, but it's very easy to find working windows 10
| pro keys for a few dollars on http://www.allkeyshop.com/.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| I got one from G2A a while ago but I was not at all
| convinced it was legit.
| anonymousab wrote:
| > I don't know how you tell or care why a seller is
| legitimate
|
| Because illegitimate keys can be banned (and the hardware
| using them can be blacklisted) if they are found to be
| stolen or acquired in some other way that Microsoft does
| not like.
|
| It's also a huge liability of you're doing any
| professional work with unlicensed and/or potentially
| illegal software licenses.
| Groxx wrote:
| No, they totally charge you +$100 for windows, for otherwise
| identical machines. E.g. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/lapto
| ps/thinkpad/thinkpadt/th...
|
| Which is less than the $140 that Microsoft charges for Win 10
| Home, but it's still substantial:
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows
|
| Really, why wouldn't they? If you can't get it cheaper, they
| have no reason to sell it cheaper. Easy profit.
| tomnipotent wrote:
| Companies are not buying machines this way, but through
| resellers with drastically different pricing models (even
| CDNow). Outside of Office 365, I have never paid more than
| 50-75% MSRP for a Microsoft product using a corp reseller
| account, including SQL Server licenses.
| Groxx wrote:
| This is a thread about the cost of gaming computers, on
| an article about Steam games on Linux.
|
| I don't think business-targeted sales are particularly
| in-scope. And even if they are, that only makes it
| _worse_ , as it implies they're getting an even more
| significant profit margin.
| lpcvoid wrote:
| As long as you use a AMD GPU, life is sweet. Nvidia is a lot
| more pain to get working - AMD is part of the kernel.
| josefx wrote:
| A lot harder meaning: knows hot to install a program on Linux
| if the distro of choice doesn't outright ask to install the
| correct driver.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| There's the never let your GPU get old too. But since this
| is about gaming, it isn't very relevant.
| lpcvoid wrote:
| No, I mean specifically things like Optimus on dual GPU
| laptops. Also, even if the distros do in fact either
| install automatically or provide a method to install it,
| there is simply no need to even do this on an AMD system.
| And then there's the matter of AMDGPU being complete open
| source, while Nvidia's offering is not. And don't even
| start on Nvidia's slow pace to properly support Wayland.
| KingMachiavelli wrote:
| Nvidia just requires installing one extra package... It
| hasn't been an issue for a while now.
|
| The nvidia driver actually works very well... The amdgpu
| driver wprks well but still has issues with
| suspend/hibernate. I'd say they are about the same IMO.
| tester756 wrote:
| >The 100 dollar premium for windows takes a big bite out of a
| 1000 dollar gaming rig.
|
| I wonder how many people actually pay for Windows, since you
| don't have to activate it in order to use.
| enlyth wrote:
| I bought a Windows 10 key from eBay once for about five
| dollars, it didn't work so I called Microsoft support and
| they activated my copy for free, I don't think they care that
| much.
| [deleted]
| GeckoEidechse wrote:
| I help decommissioning old Windows PCs for a relative of
| mine. Whenever a device gets thrown in the bin I note down
| it's activation key.
|
| Haven't had to pay for a Windows key in years ^^
| CitrusFruits wrote:
| Sad to say, but Linux just isn't a good experience for gaming
| yet. Even if games work, there's usually caveats (like needing
| to be run through some sort of emulation) and they almost
| always run faster and in a more stable manner than Windows.
|
| Most people I know are more than happy to pay that premium
| compared to the hassle of dealing with Linux. Also, a lot of
| those savvy enough to use Linux will just crack Windows or get
| a key at a discount through a reseller.
| noobermin wrote:
| This on a post of using steam on linux. Proton is "emulation"
| for some of the listed but it's pretty good emulation. It
| requires no savvy, open steam and play.
| CoolGuySteve wrote:
| In Steam you just click the play button and it launches the
| game under Proton.
|
| It's very rare to have issues if the game is rated Platinum
| in protondb and sometimes a setting in the Steam GUI needs to
| be changed if it's gold or silver.
|
| All in all I find it significantly less annoying than dealing
| with Windows' ads and forced updates.
| viceroyalbean wrote:
| The user experience is pretty smooth from a high-level
| perspective but there are often performance issues from the
| emulation. Not a huge issue in many situations but not
| flawless either.
| thefr0g wrote:
| Wine is not an emulator (scnr)
| imtringued wrote:
| Wine (and proton) is a reimplementation of windows APIs.
| You can call that emulation but that would just further
| dilute the word.
|
| For example, it would mean every graphics card driver
| that supports opengl is an emulation of opengl.
| Retric wrote:
| The question then becomes if extra 100$ worth of hardware
| balances out these issues. For 500$ machines it clearly
| does, but I don't know about the 1000$ price point.
| y4mi wrote:
| Steams Linux support (proton) is forked from wine. So no,
| it doesn't emulate.
|
| Performance can still be an issue, mostly because the
| Nvidia graphics drivers are performing worse on Linux vs
| on Windows.
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| While it's not conventional emulation, my understanding
| is that the DirectX 9-11 support isn't very far removed
| from how shader recompilation works in modern console
| emulators (RPCS3, Xenia, Cemu, Yuzu, etc.). Steam now
| even distributes shader archives among Proton users so
| that they can be translated in advance instead of on-the-
| fly, which is something that Cemu users had been doing
| among themselves for a while.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Not sure why this is getting downvoted - this is absolutely
| true. A binary "works" or "doesn't work" categorization
| doesn't capture the difference.
| BeefWellington wrote:
| > Sad to say, but Linux just isn't a good experience for
| gaming yet. Even if games work, there's usually caveats (like
| needing to be run through some sort of emulation) and they
| almost always run faster and in a more stable manner than
| Windows.
|
| This is an outdated take, from my perspective, as someone who
| is an avid gamer and who is running only Linux at home
| currently. While no doubt it's easy to find problem games,
| the point of the very article this thread linked is that it's
| come such a long way that the majority of the top titles in
| terms of hours played on Steam now work in Proton.
|
| There's been a few examples where people have compared the
| performance across games and found it's basically tied in the
| majority of games but occasionally there will be an outlier
| that plays better on Windows. Less often, there will be an
| outlier that plays better on Linux.[1]
|
| If Valve sorts out the Anti-Cheat stuff, the number of games
| that don't actually run (and run well) on Linux could drop to
| near zero.
|
| Proton isn't really emulation; a better way to think of it is
| that it's a compatiblity layer, much the same way DirectX,
| Vulkan, et. al, are compatiblity layers.
|
| > Most people I know are more than happy to pay that premium
| compared to the hassle of dealing with Linux.
|
| This part is more likely for far more users. However, it
| misses the point entirely. For a great number of years, as a
| gamer, I had to keep around a Windows system in order to
| partake in my hobby. That's not really the case anymore.
|
| [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE5WyObAFtk
| novok wrote:
| For me, when I've tried old valve native games on a 2018
| macbook pro 15" with a GPU on macOS, I still get these
| stutters in input and other small things that happen that I
| don't get on even 10 year old gaming PCs today that were
| mid-tier back then. Those stutters and such make the game
| frustrating and I perform worse during key moments, which
| makes me go back to my gaming PC.
|
| I can see how something would be rated 'platinum' for linux
| still be unacceptable in those ways. If your playing a
| single player game I can see how it's ok, but not for
| twitchy multiplayer games like MOBAs or FPSs.
| easton wrote:
| > macOS
|
| Due to macOS not supporting Vulkan and other stuff
| required for Proton, it's been on the backburner for
| support from Valve for a while. Portal 2 can't even run
| on macOS anymore since it is 32-bit only. Most games work
| how they would on Windows when running under Proton vs a
| native port, you should try it on a Linux machine when
| you have time.
| kcb wrote:
| Despite n number of games working Proton/Wine is still not
| ideal. The performance and frame pacing especially on
| graphically intensive games is significantly worse than
| Windows.
| Philip-J-Fry wrote:
| Windows costs like PS5 max. All you need is an OEM key. Yeah,
| you might need a new one if you change enough components but it
| ain't gonna break the bank once every few years.
| judge2020 wrote:
| To add, if you succumb to using a Microsoft account for your
| main Windows account, it seems you can swap out hardware a
| lot more without losing your license (although I imagine you
| can't swap out hardware and reinstall at the same time). I've
| had this one key since 2015 with many upgrades, including
| motherboard+cpu swaps, hard drive swaps, and a few
| reinstalls, and haven't lost the license.
| noasaservice wrote:
| So did you name your computer Theseus?
|
| :)
| tyrfing wrote:
| With some trickery you only need the MS account for setup.
| You can also transfer the key to a completely new system.
|
| With a bit more time to prune services/apps and set up
| something like simplewall to block everything else, you
| have a pretty decent setup. Sure, it's not FOSS, but
| neither is Steam or any of those games.
|
| Looking at my personal selection of long-tail games, about
| 1/3 work perfectly on Linux, another 1/3 don't work at all,
| and the last 1/3 have various levels of yak-shaving
| tweaking settings before they run well. That last 1/3 is
| why I went back to Windows years ago.
| skohan wrote:
| If you went back years ago, you might have missed how
| good Linux gaming has gotten recently.
| tyrfing wrote:
| I understand that, it's why I went down my list of games
| to check the current state. A lot seem to work very well
| now, some are completely broken due to anticheat systems,
| and many still have discussion of tweaks and versions to
| coax them into running decently.
|
| Seems like singleplayer games mostly work very well.
| city41 wrote:
| One thing I really like about Proton is with smaller indie games,
| they almost always work perfectly. When I tell a developer their
| new game works flawlessly on Linux they are usually grateful that
| the question of whether to port or not to Linux gets answered for
| them in a positive way.
| ziml77 wrote:
| Does anyone know of any tests that compare click-to-screen and
| click-to-speaker latencies in Linux to Windows? Mostly asking
| because I've heard that the audio systems on Linux aren't great.
| Would be nice to actually put numbers to that.
|
| Also, do things that inject overlays work under Proton? I
| occasionally use RTSS to monitor frame times and whatnot, and in
| FFXIV I use a combat log parser that adds an overlay for DPS
| meters. And while not critical, I like having reshade available
| (though that's more than just an overlay).
| jvzr wrote:
| Pipewire (which is being released in mainstream distros since
| this summer) has mostly/entirely fixed these issues. On my
| particular end (Arch, for gaming) it's 100% perfect with no
| latency
|
| Edit: Pipewire is a new system AND a "drop-in" replacement for
| any of PulseAudio/Alsa/JACK (just add whichever package you
| want and it will replace that particular audio stack with
| Pipewire's replacement)
| ant6n wrote:
| Now if a fresh Mint install on a common 5-year-old laptop could
| be set up out of the box with a working swap (8gb ram is not
| enough) and working power management (staying on until battery
| dies is not an option) as well as working suspend and hibernate,
| perhaps we could some day declare the year of the Linux desktop.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| One doesn't have any traditional Linux power management
| problems if one is using a Linux desktop.
|
| It will likely be many years before the year of the Linux
| _laptop_.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Lenovo might disagree.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| Yeah, ThinkPads exist, thanks, but I'm replying to the guy
| who's saying that Linux on laptops generally sucks, and it
| does. Of course you can chase down specific hardware that
| works; that was true when the problem was "wifi on Linux
| generally sucks", too.
|
| My understanding of the situation is that manufacturers
| tend to work really hard with Microsoft on graceful power
| management code, and until that effort is replicated on
| Linux (lol), one has to chase down specific hardware,
| because otherwise it generally sucks.
| [deleted]
| pxc wrote:
| Now if a fresh macOS install on a common 5-year-old laptop
| could be set up out of the box with a working swap (8gb ram is
| not enough) and working power management (staying on until
| battery dies is not an option) as well as working suspend and
| hibernate, perhaps we could some day declare the year of the
| Mac desktop.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Now if a fresh Windows 11 install on a common 5-year-old
| laptop could be set up out of the box with perpetual updates
| (Skylake CPUs aren't new enough) and working power management
| (microsoft deleted my acpi tables =C) as well as working
| suspend and hibernate, perhaps we could some day declare the
| year of the Windows desktop.
| fastssd wrote:
| I use a ten year old laptop and it does all of the above(with
| Mint as well).
| arepublicadoceu wrote:
| A few thoughts:
|
| 1) Proton labels like platinum, means how much effort you need to
| put for the game to run on linux. It says nothing about how well
| it will run. So "work on Linux" means basically that it works on
| Linux. It says nothing about performance. For instance I had a
| game labeled platinum run without effort on Arch with 50fps with
| constant drops to 30 ~ 25fps whereas on windows it runs at a
| constant 60fps with rare drops to 55/50. (Yeah, I've tried all
| variations of proton, kernel, disabled composition etc)
|
| 2) In my experience people that says that they see no difference
| in performance between linux and windows they usually have a
| powerful gpu, not a medium or low end one. So if you hear on the
| internet people claiming that the performance is about the same,
| it's highly dependent on the game and/or your system specs.
| ekianjo wrote:
| That is mostly true. But getting games to run seamlessly is the
| biggest hurdle. Once you get there, there are various ways you
| can optimize for performance, and translation layers like DXVK
| and VKD3D are really close to Windows performance these days on
| modern GPUs. There are numerous benchs on youtube when you can
| see that for yourself.
| swinglock wrote:
| That's unfortunate. "Works perfectly but doesn't perform well"
| is an oxymoron for games.
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| What is interesting to me about the performance differences, is
| that, yes, on my underpowered hardware Rocket League runs
| better on Windows, but not so much better that I bother
| rebooting from Linux when I want to play.
|
| If a game is "good enough" on Linux, I think that is good
| enough for a lot of folks...
| arepublicadoceu wrote:
| Not that I care much about internet points but I'm trying to
| understand why this is being so heavily downvoted as every
| reply I got is either agreeing or kind of agreeing with me.
|
| This is not a criticism for Proton, I find that getting this
| performance on an emulated environment is nothing short than a
| miracle looking from 5~10 years ago.
|
| My only intention was to set expectation accordingly for new
| users. And I stand by everything I've said. My hope is that in
| 5 years this comment will be completely outdated and new users
| can have compatibility and performance on par with windows,
| even on bad hardware.
| hn8788 wrote:
| I'm guessing the downvotes are from Valve/Steam fanboys who
| don't like any criticism of their favorite company; I see it
| all the time on social media sites. Valve have said that they
| will have every Steam game running under Proton by the end of
| the year, so pointing out that it's misleading statement at
| best will draw the ire of people who worship Lord Gaben.
| [deleted]
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Great! So how's BSD support? And then, Haiku.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| Too much "doesn't perform well or is buggy" or "not 100%"
| criticism. While the critics are not wrong those critiques don't
| apply to every single piece of software. It also shouldn't stop
| people from partitioning a hard drive and giving it a try either.
|
| Easiest way to accomplish trying out a Linux install and testing
| out games is to move your Steam library to a separate hard drive.
| This allows you to boot up any OS distribution and Steam will
| handle downloading any files you may need for these games on
| Linux. If you don't like it or it's not compatible enough, no
| harm or foul, boot back into Windows.
|
| You will probably find that most games work very well. Don't let
| criticism dissuade you!
| smoldesu wrote:
| > While the critics are not wrong those critiques don't apply
| to every single piece of software.
|
| Conversely, many games are less broken on Linux than they are
| on Windows. Since Wine lets you emulate a virtual desktop, you
| can circumvent the dreaded "alt-tab" crash that plagued
| Bethesda games since Morrowind, and even enjoy games like
| Diablo 2 in their maxed-out glory without disabling your other
| monitors.
| nohr wrote:
| I was impressed to find out even some mmos work, like Final
| Fantasy 14. There's some janky side loading you can do, but
| there's even a custom launcher that loads faster than the stock
| one, and runs Linux! I'm always super impressed when gaming
| communities fix their own issues like this.
| gpderetta wrote:
| IIRC, the main Proton DXVK developer is an avid FFXIV player :)
| rsav wrote:
| It's really amazing how well you can play on Linux now that
| Proton came out. There's only a handful of games that I need to
| boot into Windows for. On Linux most games work just as well as
| in Windows. ~10 years ago playing on Wine was a pain.
| arendtio wrote:
| Another Option to play games on Linux is Geforce Now. I try to
| avoid Nvidia products, but with this service you can play some
| games 'on' Linux which are not supported natively or via
| Proton/Wine.
| pizza234 wrote:
| To be noted that top games may not be representative of Linux
| gaming in general.
|
| There's a (very) long tail of games that surely receive less
| attention (by the Wine/Proton teams).
|
| Additionally, a large part of the top ones has a native port,
| which smaller production companies/indie devs typically can't
| afford.
|
| On the other hand, smaller games could be simpler to "not
| emulate" (:^)) due to them being simpler.
|
| > they have committed to bringing all Steam titles to the Steam
| Deck running SteamOS
|
| This is unrealistic.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| My experience has been that EAC is a problem at the top of the
| list, and there's an enormous middle of the list where things
| just work, and a very long tail of older games which don't
| really work at all. (Once everything became unity, the problem
| got easier, I think...)
| MrDresden wrote:
| I exited the Windows ecosystem completely in '19 and haven't had
| any issues since playing games on my Linux machine.
|
| Just recently played Titanfall 2 and Battlefield 1. Both worked
| almost flawlessly (one to two crashes each).
| Finnucane wrote:
| I still haven't even been able to steam to run due to missing 32
| bit libraries.
| itronitron wrote:
| https://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/0/35054097...
| iotku wrote:
| Well I sure hope you find them
| howinteresting wrote:
| I've been using Linux on my desktop gaming PC and Windows on my
| living room gaming PC for the last year.
|
| The big thing that is still missing from Linux gaming is HDR
| support. It's somewhat janky but otherwise works fine on Windows,
| and the Auto HDR on Windows 11 is pretty great. Hoping Linux gets
| there soon.
| marcodiego wrote:
| The day this number reaches 100% will be on of those before/after
| moments. Considering the only problem with remaining 8 titles not
| running is DRM/anti-cheat, it is possible that we'll see this day
| arrive.
|
| I usually make fun of "linux on the desktop" prophets by saying
| "Yes, 90% is great but problem is that everybody uses a different
| 90%". But 100% of the 50 most popular games is a different thing.
| It is a level of compatibility that you may not even achieve on
| windows depending on your hardware. Of course, performance and a
| few bugs will exist, but compatibility will be good enough for
| almost everybody.
|
| I wonder if this coupled with steam deck will finally make
| supporting linux sustainable. I mean, a point where supporting is
| so cheap and the number of users is big enough that it becomes
| profitable to do so. If that happens, most excuses to not support
| linux will finally vanish away.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| >I wonder if this coupled with steam deck will finally make
| supporting linux sustainable
|
| I'd settle for devs trying to make games whose win32 api calls
| are within the bounds of that which Proton can handle. Why
| bother natively supporting Linux when you can architect
| something that'll run in Windows _and_ Proton? Elsewhere in the
| thread I saw comments about how most indie stuff Just Works
| even now; I wonder if that 's the subset of indie stuff that's,
| like, fairly paint-by-numbers projects in Unreal or Unity that
| aren't doing anything really unusual and thus are handily
| translated by Proton.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > Considering the only problem with remaining 8 titles not
| running is DRM/anti-cheat
|
| This is going to be a huge problem. These corporations are
| going to be installing borderline malware into our computers.
| People will be forced to accept it if they want to play the
| games they paid money for. Invasive proprietary kernel modules
| designed to monitor your activities isn't something we should
| be supporting.
| fragileone wrote:
| I run these games via GeForce NOW. There's no way I'm
| installing kernel-level proprietary monitoring software.
| baby wrote:
| Unfortunately cheaters ruin everything
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Cheaters aren't a strong enough reason to ship malware to
| users to monitor them. This sort of thing ought to be
| unacceptable.
|
| This is 100% on the games industry. They engaged in an
| arms race with cheaters and now their ineffective
| solutions are worse than the problem they're attempting
| to solve.
| tl wrote:
| You misspelt corporations.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > There's no way I'm installing kernel-level proprietary
| monitoring software.
|
| Yeah, me neither. It's gonna suck if they start requiring
| it on Linux though. I hope smarter people than me will find
| workarounds that allow us to pretend their shitty modules
| are running.
|
| Just in case anyone is wondering why this is a big deal:
|
| https://www.theregister.com/2016/09/23/capcom_street_fighte
| r...
| owaislone wrote:
| > Considering the only problem with remaining 8 titles not
| running is DRM/anti-cheat, it is possible that we'll see this
| day arrive.
|
| Valve has confirmed they are working with Epic (and another
| vendor) to support EAC on at least Steam OS if not every distro
| but I'd imagine Steam itself would contain everything that'd be
| needed to run EAC. So if you can run Steam on your favourite
| distro, I think EAC should work as well.
| [deleted]
| skohan wrote:
| Is there a possibility it would be solved only on Steam Deck
| but not other hardware?
| ekianjo wrote:
| On Steam Deck they will be using signed Proton builds to
| make EAC work. Which means you wont be able to use EAC on
| just any Linux distro unless you use the same signed
| builds.
| the8472 wrote:
| What will a signed proton build do when a cheater can run
| as root or load a kernel module? I suspect they'll go
| much further and demand secure boot with vendor keys (no
| custom keys) and a locked down kernel.
| [deleted]
| foxhill wrote:
| citation required?
| pkulak wrote:
| Yes. You will likely need to be running a signed Steam
| install plus a signed version of the game. I'm 100%
| confident that it will be figured out in a repo like the
| aur, but it may be some work for Ubuntu folks and whatnot.
| mjevans wrote:
| Archlinux steam user here: Steam auto-updates and Steam's
| default Proton install is pulled down by Steam and stored
| within it's paths.
|
| Mostly this would affect anything that needs an
| unsupported build of Proton to work properly. Which is
| mostly lots of games that use the insane plethora of
| media presentation layers every big company has added to
| Windows over the decades.
|
| From what I've seen of games on Twitch, EAC style games
| tend to not rely on FMV and are generally 'all live' so
| there shouldn't be many problems.
| pstrateman wrote:
| The irony is that EAC doesnt stop cheaters at all.
| dafelst wrote:
| It won't stop anyone who has the skill to author cheats
| themselves (i.e. someone with basic reversing and
| programming experience) but it does do a good job of
| detecting and banning players who are using widely
| distributed "commercial" cheats.
|
| I look at EAC as being very analogous to a virus scanner,
| very easy to bypass if you know what you're doing, but good
| at catching the common and soon-to-be common threats. It
| also puts up enough roadblocks to make some novice attempts
| at cheating inconvenient at least.
|
| Source: I deal with all the anti-cheat stuff (including
| EAC) on a semi-popular multi-player game. I can verify that
| it does make a very tangible difference to our player base
| in terms of the number of cheaters they are exposed to on a
| per match or per session basis.
| novok wrote:
| Do these anti cheat systems detect popular products of
| popular dev tools to create cheats typically? Or is the
| cheat world way beyond that phase and everyone just codes
| to the native OS APIs directly, making that hard to
| detect?
|
| Is there still cheating in console players? Maybe with
| jail broken devices? Do these companies really have to
| think about cheating with consoles? Do you think the
| eventual future of these kind of games is some sort of
| locked down console-like system, which is what apple
| seems to slowly be going to with their hardware?
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| My warframe account was banned a while ago for having
| cheat engine running in the background. I was using cheat
| engine with total war, a single player series and never
| hooked it into warframe. So some systems at least just
| looks for running processes to create cheat tools.
| arsome wrote:
| EAC is actually pretty terrible against commercial
| cheats, it's only use is against free cheats pretty much.
| If you're willing to pay, you'll find many for EAC games.
| ziml77 wrote:
| That still reduces the number of cheaters. Having to get
| out a credit card even to pay a penny is a barrier to
| people cheating.
| zorked wrote:
| Interesting. I am not a gamer at all: so there is a
| market for cheating tools? How "legit" is it? Where do
| players go to buy cheats?
| dafelst wrote:
| I've found that the biggest marketplaces are on the
| Chinese web, places like taobao have a HUGE number. Also
| Russian social networks as well.
| arsome wrote:
| Many major titles are using EAC currently, Fortnite, Apex
| Legends, PUBG, etc. There's a pretty large market for
| cheats in any of those titles. Just dropping "<game>
| aimbot" or "<game> cheats" into google is likely to turn
| up a multitude of commercial cheat developers, many of
| which are legitimate and will bypass the current anti-
| cheat.
|
| Generally the legitimate commercial cheat developers
| offer status pages detailing any of their cheats that are
| currently detected and offer additional tools to do
| things like bypass hardware ID detection if you did get
| banned in the past.
| bscphil wrote:
| > bypass the _current_ anti-cheat
|
| Maybe I'm clueless but as I understand it some of these
| shooters (e.g. PUBG) are games that you _pay_ for. If one
| of these commercial cheats gets detected by EAC isn 't
| the result a permaban of your paid for account? And then
| you have to buy the game again and make a new one, if
| that's possible at all? Seems like that would be a
| serious deterrent, although obviously it won't stop
| everyone. (Encountering a cheater once out of every ten
| matches is probably acceptable. Encountering one in every
| other match probably isn't.)
| dkersten wrote:
| No anti-cheat will ever completely stop cheaters. There are
| plenty of cheat tools that are basically impossible to
| prevent. The question is whether EAC is good enough? I
| don't know, I play very little multiplayer these days.
| mastax wrote:
| In my experience any popular free to play multiplayer
| game is eventually inundated with cheaters no matter what
| anti cheat is used.
| judge2020 wrote:
| In the end, games need to be built better by sending the
| least information needed to clients, ie. zero-trust. This
| is a big part of things like CS:GO, Valorant, and RTS
| games like starcraft/League/Dota since they can implement
| a 'fog of war' and only network information if their
| client actually needs it[0].
|
| The only cheats that still plague Dota are scripts that
| perform tasks automatically, such as disabling an
| opponent as soon as they're visible (beyond human
| ability), and those are taken care of by heuristics[1]
| and a community-voting-based 'overwatch' system in CS:GO
| and Dota 2[2].
|
| 0: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/demolishing-
| wallhacks-...
|
| 1: https://youtu.be/hI7V60r7Jco
|
| 2: https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3025824821114909461
| orbital-decay wrote:
| _> games need to be built better by sending the least
| information needed to clients, ie. zero-trust_
|
| That isn't possible in real world for every type of
| competitive gameplay; trade-offs need to be made. Even
| games you list are not "zero trust" - things like looking
| direction are left to the client because of the latency.
|
| Moreover, it's not enough. What's also needed is a
| hardware chain of trust for input devices. On-device
| cryptographic signing of mouse events would be sufficient
| and would guarantee that input comes from a fair play-
| compliant device.
| jMyles wrote:
| > On-device cryptographic signing of mouse events would
| be sufficient and would guarantee that input comes from a
| fair play-compliant device.
|
| SGX for human inputs. What can go wrong?
| orbital-decay wrote:
| SGX is a super-privileged, encrypted, and isolated
| enclave in the main CPU memory that can be used for
| anything. Signed mouse input is much more benign. But
| sure, I see your point - this is DRM, and it can be used
| to control the access to your own mouse, even outside of
| online gaming.
|
| Still, it's the most logical step, and it would probably
| happen in several years, after Microsoft started
| demanding TPM 2.0. Valorant already requires TPM to be
| enabled on Windows 11 to run.
|
| By the way, A4Tech has on-device DRM for more than a
| decade, they are using it to stop people pirating their
| software. Which is, ironically, designed for cheating.
| jMyles wrote:
| > SGX is a super-privileged, encrypted, and isolated
| enclave in the main CPU memory that can be used for
| anything.
|
| My position is s/"a super-privileged, encrypted, and
| isolated enclave in the main CPU memory that can be used
| for anything"/"a failed experiment in computer
| pseudoscience".
|
| And the nightmare scenario I imagine is a more lubricated
| path to framing political dissidents by forging
| attestations that they were searching for child abuse
| imagery or some similar scenario.
| dkersten wrote:
| The problem with zero trust and only sending what the
| player can actually see is lag. For example, sure, you
| could eliminate wall hacks by only sending positions of
| players that you have line of sight of, but that
| essentially eliminates any client-side movement
| prediction or other lag compensation and means you have
| to send each frames data quickly enough. This may work
| for some games that are less lag sensitive and as
| internet speeds improve, but its not currently a solution
| for most players.
| jorvi wrote:
| Most of the other titles run BattlEye, it seems.
|
| What is kind of strange is that Ark: Survival _is_ running on
| Linux and also has BattlEye..
| valczir wrote:
| Check the chart again - ARK is native. If you run it in
| proton (many mods have issues with the linux-native version
| of the game, so many people _do_ run it in proton), then
| you can 't join battleye-enabled servers.
| Agentlien wrote:
| As a game developer who used to run Linux exclusively it's
| really frustrating to work full time on games knowing they
| don't work on Linux just because of DRM.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I'm not so sure. Steam is nice but what about other online
| stores like the Microsoft Store? I'm worried that Microsoft
| will push more integration to break compatibility on Linux.
| dkersten wrote:
| I only have a linux laptop these days (and even before that, had
| a Macbook for work, haven't had Windows in a long time) and I've
| noticed that I can play more and more without Proton. Proton is
| also pretty good these days, but I'm on wayland (sway) and Proton
| seems to have problems running on xwayland, so if I want to play
| them, I have to switch to X, which is usually too much effort
| (have to close my dev tools etc). But like I said, more and more
| games have Linux-native versions now! I hope that with the new
| Valve hardware coming out, more developers will add first-class
| Linux support.
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