[HN Gopher] High-powered motorcycle vibrations might impact iPho...
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High-powered motorcycle vibrations might impact iPhone camera
Author : jnieminen
Score : 89 points
Date : 2021-09-11 12:20 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (support.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (support.apple.com)
| bserge wrote:
| Well, yeah, violent shaking of the internal components can damage
| them.
| 14 wrote:
| I wonder what the signs of degradation are? I use my phone
| attached to my handle bars and the phone shakes so much that I
| can have the camera app open and see the picture vibrating, it
| won't actually let me take a picture or video. If I start the
| video then the bike it will record but blurry. I'm on an iPhone 8
| so might have older camera less sensitive to this.
| behohippy wrote:
| It isn't just iPhone, and it can happen on any motorcycle
| regardless of the engine size or power. The OIS in my Pixel 4a is
| destroyed from using a mount for less than an hour.
| alias_neo wrote:
| Just to be clear, this isn't about using the camera while
| mounted on the bike, but having the phone mounted ever actually
| damages the camera for any use, mounted or otherwise?
| technoplato wrote:
| TLDR shaking the phone anywhere at any time with certain
| amplitude / frequency combinations will permanently damage
| sensitive components and make pics look like you've got ALS
| again
|
| Yeah they actually go into more interesting detail than
| expected from a support article and detail how (not an expert
| so it could just be wool over my eyes Apple BS but doesn't
| smell that way here) the OIS and closed loop AF work in that
| article.
|
| Basically sensitive gadgets shouldn't be exposed to certain
| frequency / amplitude combinations because sensitive gadgets
| rely on well, not being shaken out of whack.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| 'Dampening' - it's damping not dampening.
| blamazon wrote:
| See also: amalgamation vs. amalgam.
|
| I hear people use amalgamation all the time, when the word they
| actually meant is amalgam, the result of amalgamation.
|
| However, language is democratic, and the preference of people
| like you and me will be pushed into the proverbial footnotes
| over centuries as similar sounding words amalgamate into
| synonyms.
|
| So why bother correcting people ;)
| ffhhj wrote:
| Just put it in foam inside a case.
| reustle wrote:
| This happened to my Samsung S20 Ultra camera ($1500~) and Samsung
| refused to even look at it. I think they're aware.
| Factorium wrote:
| ICE motorbikes seem like the most obvious type of vehicle to
| immediately mandate 100% EV, with an aggressive target like 12
| months (to clear out existing inventory).
|
| The segment and vehicles themselves are small enough that this
| changeover can be made fairly easily, with immense benefits for
| noise pollution in cities.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| You have it backwards. Motorcycle riders are not going to swing
| over to electric at any time soon:
|
| Bikers keep their rides for decades and
|
| ICE motorcycles can last just as long and cars, if not longer,
| and
|
| The price for entry on a new electric motorcycle is so far away
| from the price of ICE motorcycles it financially can not work
| for owners. And
|
| There is little benefit to the environment to switch. Modern
| motorcycles have been sold with catalytic converters for
| decades, and they also get 40+ MPG.
| dharmab wrote:
| > There is little benefit to the environment to switch.
| Modern motorcycles have been sold with catalytic converters
| for decades, and they also get 40+ MPG.
|
| Previous emissions standards for motorcycles were much lower
| than cars. To the point where a bike getting 50mpg and
| carrying one person output more pollution than a sedan
| getting 25mpg and carrying an entire family.
|
| This has been fixed with Euro4's introduction for the 2017
| model year (which is why so many bikes were redesigned that
| year with huge exhausts.)
| sgt wrote:
| You are clearly not a biker... otherwise you might have
| understood why EV motorcycles are years, maybe decades into the
| future.
|
| If you refer to e.g Asia where motorcycles are possibly your
| only transport, then sure; your argument is valid. But this is
| HN, and in Western countries a motorcycle is basically a hobby.
| Heck, they are often even more expensive to run than cars.
|
| So as to why EV bikes are not even close to being ready:
|
| (a) The range is abysmal, and the availability of charging
| simply isn't there in areas that many bikers venture (away from
| traffic, hundreds of miles into the hills). Motorcyclists try
| to avoid the interstate and main highways if possible. You
| rarely see a Zero bike for this and many other reasons. A
| proper ride may be 12 hours per day for hundreds of miles, for
| days on end.
|
| (b) Battery mass. The energy per mass unit in even the best
| batteries make it very impractical with motorcycles that really
| need to be as light as possible.
|
| (c) Longevity. A lot of bikers own not just one, but many
| motorcycles. You may have the latest BMW R1250GS, but also a
| garage littered with anything from KDX 200 to DRZ 400 and Honda
| CBR1000RR. Those bikes can still be used for years to come, and
| it doesn't make sense to scrap them. PS - bikes are generally
| not that reliable though, but that doesn't necessarily affect
| longevity too much as owners love to tinker.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| It is kind of inevitable in the long run if cars move on to
| being EVs, where will bikes fill up if there are no more gas
| stations?
|
| That being said, I've only ever seen one EV motorcycle in
| China once (not just a big electric bike), it had unreal
| acceleration, I'm not sure it would be safe to ride.
| sgt wrote:
| Thing is... there will likely always be gas stations
| catering to vintage vehicles and such. Bikers will have to
| pay premium for bio-ethanol or such meant for exotic and
| old cars. Luckily motorcycles are generally decent (not
| great) on gas mileage, so it might work out OK.
| toast0 wrote:
| It'll be a long time before the whole car fleet turns over,
| and then you've got gasoline powered box vans and what not,
| too.
|
| But as (or if) the liquid fuel demand drops, you'll
| probably see the density of stations drop too. Both fewer
| pumps per station and fewer stations. But I suspect most
| areas will have some gasoline availability for at least my
| lifetime. Worst case, auto parts stores will carry 5 gallon
| jugs prefilled with stabilized gasoline. That would get a
| motorcycle around quite a bit.
|
| For old-timers who hang onto their classic gasoline powered
| cars, they might need to plan trips around fueling
| stations, like natural gas drivers and EV drivers currently
| do. (EV is easier, you can always bring a 110V charger and
| wait a long time)
| dharmab wrote:
| You aren't a biker and it shows.
|
| Here's a 9 minute video that rebuts your 10 second
| unresearched, uninformed statement, with real data. Please
| watch it and become more informed about real ways we can
| improve motorcycles:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM
| marcinzm wrote:
| Batteries are heavy and bulky so difficult to fit in a bike.
| Moreover the noise is on purpose so they'd just add a
| loudspeaker or something instead.
| oneplane wrote:
| Perhaps they could just put the noise in an headphone and
| leave the rest of us in peace. They get the experience they
| want, and we get to ignore it.
| sigzero wrote:
| Yeah, good luck with that.
| et2o wrote:
| This would destroy an already distressed and shrinking
| industry. EV motorcycles are comparatively very expensive and
| with limited range. None of the major manufacturers outside of
| Harley Davidson have commercialized an electric motorcycle yet.
| Furthermore, given the relative scarcity and lower miles
| traveled of motorcycles, banning ICE bikes would have limited
| environmental effect.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I suspect that the noise is a big appeal to motorcycle owners.
| whartung wrote:
| It's not just motorcycles.
|
| Around here, every cowboy with a V8 Challenger, Charger,
| Mustang, Camaro, or Pickup truck seems to have stripped off
| any semblance of "mufflers" because they want to "hear" their
| powerful V8 motor.
|
| I live near a freeway entrance (and by "near" I mean at least
| 1/2 mile away), and out here, at night, when the freeways are
| more clear it's not too uncommon to have the silent darkness
| shattered by one of these cars opening up the throttle on the
| on ramp and racing to Vegas. Down the road is an interchange,
| and I've heard them start near me and just roar down the
| freeway, across the overpass and down the other freeway.
|
| These cars are everywhere around here. Not to say the
| motorcycles aren't participants, but down here, the cars
| prevail.
| ultrarunner wrote:
| This is a good point. I suspect that due to Harley's older
| demographic the "loud pipes save lives" crowd will give way
| to a demographic that isn't so interested in obnoxious
| noise levels. That probably won't follow as much for car
| drivers where the noise isn't as neatly segmented.
| xattt wrote:
| Is there an industry name for this specific phenomenon? Where
| goods are purchased/owned/carried solely for an intimidating
| appearance without any intent of using for their intended
| purpose?
| dharmab wrote:
| In the automotive world this is called "presence"
|
| To automotive marketers this type of customer falls under
| "status seekers"
| henearkr wrote:
| A lot of people needing to buy imposing bikes, cars,
| clothes etc do it because they feel insecure, for example
| in their masculinity...
| crims0n wrote:
| That is one way to kill an entire industry.
|
| Electric motorcycles have been here for years, nobody is
| adopting them because nobody wants them. They are closer to
| electric bicycles than they are motorbikes.
|
| When I jump on my motorcycle, it is about the experience - not
| anything practical. The startup ritual, the heat of the engine
| on a cool day, the symphony of sound and vibrations, the weight
| of what is under you, the absolute bliss you feel shifting
| through the curves of the road, the adrenaline of masterfully
| coordinating lean, angle of attack, rev matching, and counter
| steer.
|
| There is something incredibly dull about an electric motorcycle
| comparatively. They are practical, and I will admit the linear
| acceleration is fun, but with so much sacrificed I could never
| see myself owning one as a recreational vehicle.
| oneplane wrote:
| I wouldn't mind the industry being killed. But then again,
| I'm only on the receiving end of the noise, stink, bad
| drivers, people using infrastructure for pleasure etc. I bet
| if I liked driving for fun or using shared infrastructure for
| pleasure instead of need, I might like it too. But I don't.
| foepys wrote:
| Plus electric motorcycles are loud, they make a high pitched
| sound. German motorcycle magazine "Motorrad" does a huge test
| with almost all motorcycles on the market in the Alps every
| year. They test a lot of things there, including noise
| levels.
|
| The loudest motorcycle this year when in motion? An electric
| motorcycle.
|
| This obviously not including aftermarket exhausts.
| hprotagonist wrote:
| This is well known. Popular/good mount manufacturers have offered
| vibration dampeners for some time now.
|
| https://www.quadlockcase.com/products/vibration-dampener
|
| https://hondogarage.com/products/buzz-kill-vibration-isolato...
| amelius wrote:
| If a handlebar can kill a phone, has anyone else wondered what it
| can do to one's hands and arms?
| tomxor wrote:
| > Attaching your iPhone to vehicles with small-volume or electric
| engines, such as mopeds and scooters, may lead to comparatively
| lower-amplitude vibrations.
|
| No superbikes for you Apple users :D - _recoils in anticipation
| of onslaught of downvotes_ -
|
| In all fairness I expect it's going to be difficult to design
| anything with such small delicate moving parts to be invulnerable
| to arbitrary frequency vibrations. It can also be challenging to
| accurately model the resonant frequency response of composite
| "stuff" prior to manufacturing it (many bridges have failed).
| Better luck with the next model I guess...
| dharmab wrote:
| I keep my iPhone in my jacket pocket and use the bluetooth
| module on my helmet. I also have a Garmin GPS on the handebar
| of my touring bike, although in 2021 you can get GPS built
| right into the bike's instrument panel.
|
| (To be fair, my most preferred navigation method on long trips
| is to tape a piece of paper with handwritten notes to the fuel
| tank anyway.)
| vzaliva wrote:
| I think the problematic engines are big Harley twins which
| vibrate like hell and run relatively low revs. Superbikes
| engines are usually operate on high RPMs and vibrate less.
| tomxor wrote:
| Quite possibly, in which case "No Harleys for you :D"
| dharmab wrote:
| Nope, happens with pretty much every bike. Have heard all
| sorts of riders talk about this.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| "Attaching your iPhone to vehicles with small-volume or electric
| engines, such as mopeds and scooters, may lead to comparatively
| lower-amplitude vibrations, but if you do so a vibration
| dampening mount is recommended."
|
| Oh boy I can see it now: Apple to unveil $500 All Aluminum
| Motorcycle Mounting Kit with vibration dampening sensors and
| hyper shock absorbing rubber.
|
| Then we watch them do something incredibly stupid like pair the
| mounts to phones so you can't just unhook it and let a friend
| borrow it.
| ibaikov wrote:
| This exact thing happened to my friends who goes on a cycle trip
| daily. He had his samsun s8+ attached to the habdlebar. The phone
| is damaged now - camera shakes, can't focus, etc.
| elephantum wrote:
| I killed at least three iPhone cameras this way with my KTM 690.
| mmmeff wrote:
| Same here on a Honda Africa Twin
| dharmab wrote:
| Had a coworker murder his camera on his Africa Twin.
| sgt wrote:
| The camera becomes blurry and shaky - completely useless. It's a
| common and well known issue if you happen to mount the phone on
| your handlebars (do NOT do this). I have several friends who've
| had this happen in the last year. All the way up to 12 Pro.
| spockz wrote:
| I wonder. Can this same happen on a dashboard mounted phone in
| a car?
| numpad0 wrote:
| Potentially? But it's a known issue only to motorcyclists and
| (pedal)cyclists. idk why Apple is saying this is due to
| engine vibration but I think it has more to do with hard
| suspensions.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Dashboards are not bolted directly to engines. The issue is
| that motorcycle parts are more directly connected to the
| engine. Sportbikes normally use the engine as a structural
| member, bolting all the other bits and pieces to the engine
| block. So vibrations through motorcycle handlebars and such
| are more intense than those on the dash of even an extreme
| muscle car.
| dharmab wrote:
| > Sportbikes normally use the engine as a structural
| member, bolting all the other bits and pieces to the engine
| block.
|
| Before someone asks if this could be "fixed": This is a
| desirable trait. It improves the frame stiffness of the
| vehicle, resulting in better handling.
|
| https://youtu.be/FlbkAhCNvik?t=453
| technoplato wrote:
| Ignore the motorcycle bit completely and just think physics
|
| You could trigger this on any oscillating "body" if that body
| is oscillating at a certain frequency and amplitude
| combination.
|
| It just so happens motorcycle engines produce that
| combination. There would certainly be others. tHe sustained
| nature of the shaking would also be cause for concern but I
| didn't see any mention of duration in the support article
| thefounder wrote:
| No
|
| Source: personal experience
| sgt wrote:
| Cars are better insulated and vibrate less in the first
| place. But if you do offroad and gravel with lots of
| vibrations, I think it might increase the risk.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Their explanation seems legit but I do wonder how Apple would
| handle warranty claims to damages done to the camera system from
| strong vibrations.
|
| Like, does the iPhone internally log strong vibrations sensed
| through the gyro/accelerometer to invalidate warranty claims?
|
| I'm asking since most phones also have moisture stickers inside
| to invalidate warranty claims to to water damage.
| nerdwaller wrote:
| A friend of mine has had his phone replaced twice due to this
| before figuring out the cause, however now that there's a
| formal publication in it I'd bet that changes.
| alias_neo wrote:
| > does the iPhone internally log strong vibrations sensed
| through the gyro/accelerometer
|
| I would lean heavily towards "yes".
|
| The why, I guess we'll never know the real answer, but I
| remember rumours, years ago, of manufacturers denying warranty
| claims based on "dropped" devices thanks to the gyro data.
| nicce wrote:
| This gets closer to slippery-slope argument, because in that
| case everything happens on black box software and is easier to
| manipulate or error prone. Apple can just say that logs say
| your gyro tells this and this. At which point you can't trust
| for the warranty of your phone? Moisture stickers can be
| validated by third party in theory at least.
| technoplato wrote:
| So too with gyroscopic readings unless you think those are
| fraudulent
| maxerickson wrote:
| There is likely characteristic physical damage from the
| vibration.
| kristianpaul wrote:
| Buy a gopro then?
| mgraupner wrote:
| For navigation?
| dharmab wrote:
| People mount phones to their handlebars for GPS navigation and
| to use as speedometers on bikes that did not come with one from
| the factory (e.g. dirt bike conversions in places where that is
| legal)
| _Microft wrote:
| This seems like something that could be detected while it's
| happening (*). Maybe iPhones could warn users before lasting
| damage occurs?
|
| (*) Edit: I was assuming that damage to the camera accumulates
| over time. If it happens on short time scales or as a single
| event as nicce's reply seems to suggest, this renders the
| notification idea moot ofcourse.
| nicce wrote:
| It is very likely that it is too late on that point. It might
| be hard to detect or pick up your phone from your pockets when
| driving. Even harder if it is on chassis somewhere.
| technoplato wrote:
| Could be interesting sci fi technology to "wrap" the
| sensitive parts in a shell kind of like a roly poly bug (it
| would have to be more than a wrap and more of securing foam
| that disappears, but interesting to ponder)
| HPsquared wrote:
| Simpler to have a little locking mechanism for when the
| camera isn't in use. Like the head parking "ramp" on some
| HDDs.
| interpol_p wrote:
| This is a great thread by a motorcycle and iPhone camera
| enthusiast detailing the problems that can arise from broken
| sensor-shift and OIS modules
|
| https://twitter.com/sdw/status/1436657008904740866
| mrosett wrote:
| Road bikes too. I wrecked my iPhone 8's autofocus after riding
| ~1000 miles with it on a handlebar mount. Obviously there's no
| engine vibration but chip-and-seal roads have a similar effect.
| gregdetre wrote:
| Hmmm, interesting. That hasn't been my personal experience.
| runnerup wrote:
| Indeed, several years ago I took an iPhone 6S Plus on a
| roadtrip on a motorcycle, Yamaha FZ-600 for about 2500 miles,
| no issues.
|
| But I also had a quiet stock exhaust?
| hjnilsson wrote:
| 6S did not have the OIS or autofocus features that lead to
| this problem. There are no moving lens elements in that
| phone.
| HPsquared wrote:
| 6S Plus did have OIS (in any case all cameras have
| autofocus which involves moving lens elements).
|
| Probably the vibration in that situation didn't match the
| resonant modes of the camera components. It's probably a
| fairly rare event where everything lines up just right.
| [deleted]
| qwertox wrote:
| I've _read_ the same, but my Pixel 3 had no issues after
| ~12.000km, half on it on asphalt, the other half on gravel and
| some rougher parts. Then a Motorola and a Xiaomi which I guess
| shared each half of the ~12.000km (two phones mounted, Xiaomi
| replaced Motorola halfway, both in parallel to the Pixel 3),
| where both of these devices (not the Pixel) were making
| automatic photos at geofenced spots during the ride (one of the
| street, to record the wet /dry condition, one of the selfie
| camera to record the sky condition cloud/sunny).
|
| Though I do use a rubbery holder with good damping properties
| [1] and only recently moved over to a fixed one out of aluminum
| [2] for one of the phones, which could start causing this
| issue.
|
| [1] https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B06Y6C3P43
|
| [2] https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07TQDMX6Z
| smoyer wrote:
| I live about 5 miles (on the same road) as the local Harley
| Davidson dealership and would love it if HD riders left the stock
| pipes on their bikes. While the engines do vibrate, don't dismiss
| the additional concussive force of an unmuffled exhaust.
| bserge wrote:
| I hear them outside and am happy for them, they don't have
| tinnitus. Yet.
|
| I used to like the sound of engines, still do, but I never
| understood the farty exhaust tbh.
| hughrr wrote:
| Yeah it's just being a nuisance for the sake of it.
|
| There was one who lived over the road from me a few years
| back who would rev his broken exhaust bike at 5am and wake
| everyone up. About three weeks later his motorcycle
| mysteriously caught fire in the early evening. There were
| people smirking out of their windows enjoying the
| schadenfreude. There's still a puddle of aluminium melted
| into the ground where it died.
| amelius wrote:
| Sadly this won't help in the majority of cases. Their
| insurance will just pay for a brand new bike with the
| newest and noisiest tech installed.
| ryandrake wrote:
| > Yeah it's just being a nuisance for the sake of it.
|
| It's a lot like rolling coal[1]. No actual safety purpose,
| people do it simply to project insecurity and irritate
| others. Sometimes I think society is too tolerant of purely
| antisocial behavior, but I guess in the US everyone has the
| freedom to be a donkey.
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
| hughrr wrote:
| Oh joy that's terrible. Had no idea anyone did that.
| amelius wrote:
| Hint: they wear protective earplugs.
| bserge wrote:
| The bastards!
| RhysU wrote:
| The protective earplugs are to combat wind roar and
| hearing loss over a lifetime. The non-Harley folk wear
| them too.
| whartung wrote:
| Correct. My bike has a stock exhaust and sounds like a
| sewing machine, but I wear earplugs mostly to protect
| against the constant wind noise at speed.
| tbihl wrote:
| Is that not accomplished by wearing a helmet? I haven't
| been on a motorcycle in over a decade, but I recall it
| being pretty quiet in the helmet.
| steffan wrote:
| No, there's more than enough noise to cause permanent
| hearing damage.
|
| Obviously higher speeds=higher wind noise; you might be
| fine < 35mph (~ 55kmh) in a city, but anything above that
| hearing protection is advisable.
|
| "Measurements of motorcycle riding noise levels vary, but
| are generally around 85-95 dB at speeds up to 35 mph,
| climbing to 110-116 dB at 65 mph"
| chairmanwow1 wrote:
| I had a pretty nice helmet, and it was absolutely not
| quieter
| amelius wrote:
| Isn't there a legal limit on the amount of dB(A) produced by
| any vehicle?
| voisin wrote:
| I would love to see statistics on how many tickets are issued
| per year for these violations. I suspect zero.
| hemloc_io wrote:
| Anecdotally I've heard that they are mostly used as a way
| to stop riced out Japanese cars.
|
| Not ppl on motorcycles. As someone who has run straight
| pipes across two major cities never had an issue. A bunch
| of motorcyclists don't even have licenses lol.
| cagey wrote:
| USA long-time motorcycle owner here: agree. I believe there
| have been laws on the books for many years regarding noise
| limits, but they are (effectively) NEVER enforced. No-
| muffler-at-all ("straight-pipe") exhausts on V-twin (EX:
| Harley Davidson and its countless clones) are de facto
| standard (and for reasons unclear to me are accepted).
|
| Also, aftermarket exhaust systems for motorcycles (99.9% of
| these being much louder than stock/OEM) are a huge
| business: I'd guesstimate that 50% of motorcycles sold in
| the USA soon (< 1 year old) end up running aftermarket
| exhaust systems; it's a standard first modification done by
| almost all enthusiast owners.
| mhb wrote:
| About the same as for leaf blowers.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Such laws are almost never enforced in the US.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| Yes. Look up passby noise.
| kzrdude wrote:
| (Sweden situation). There's recurring inspections of any
| vehicle, binannually or something maybe for motorcycles. The
| HD people I know/knew, would change back to the stock pipes
| for inspection, because the loud ones were not legal to use.
| Then just change back again.
| arglebarglegar wrote:
| yes this is exactly what people do with modified cars too
| moonchrome wrote:
| Or they just add/remove the DB killer (removing a small
| plug vs dismantling the exhaust)
| foepys wrote:
| With Euro4 and later exhausts this is no longer possible.
| Db killers need to be not removable, so you need to
| replace the whole slip-on.
| moonchrome wrote:
| Had a friend who put an Akrapovic on his MT-07 - DB
| killer is welded but once you drill through a small part
| on the weld you can remove it/put it back easily and the
| drill hole is covered by carbon shield so unless they
| disassemble the shield to check (and my friend had it
| like this for 5 years before selling IIRC) it was just
| pull out - put it back in for technical
| nitrogen wrote:
| Just curious, do these changes affect power output in
| either direction?
| rolleiflex wrote:
| Generally, well designed bikes assume a certain pressure
| in the exhaust pipe and use it as a way to compute the
| internal combustion cycle timings, since it affects the
| movement of air and how long it stays and how fast it is
| likely to move on. So changing the pipes without doing
| anything indeed affects performance. That's why most pipe
| changes usually also come with a reflash of the bike's
| ECU so that the onboard computer can know new pipe's air
| resistance parameters.
| robgibbons wrote:
| Several beach towns in my area have enacted local ordinances
| and have handed out citations for excessive exhaust noise.
| kube-system wrote:
| The EPA prohibits modifying exhausts on motorcycles to exceed
| some decibel limit (80 something IIRC?), and this is stamped
| into the muffler on my motorcycle.
| ThePadawan wrote:
| (Switzerland here)
|
| Yes, but they're surprisingly recent, so most vehicles are
| grandfathered into "may still make a shitload of noise"
| levels.
| sp332 wrote:
| Yes, and many aftermarket sets say "not for road use". Harley
| Davidson was fined for installing them on too many daily
| drivers. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-harley-
| davidson-lawsu...
| kube-system wrote:
| Loud pipes are annoying, but they won't change the amount of
| vibration transmitted through the handlebars to a phone mount.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Yes, but the proximity is such that the soundwaves themselves
| could conceivably vibrate the case enough to do damage if it
| is in a partially enclosed space and facing out (because that
| way it gets pressure from only one side, essentially a
| reverse bass speaker).
| kingkawn wrote:
| For the bikes being loud enough that everyone knows you're
| coming is life and death issue on the road surrounded by huge
| cars and trucks
| dahart wrote:
| That theory has been tested, and shown that bikes are not
| loud enough for anyone to hear you coming.
| https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-
| news/a35952569/loud-p...
|
| The accident stats also fail to backup this idea, and even
| suggest that loud pipes might be giving some riders a false
| sense of safety and leading to more accidents than otherwise.
| https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/07/29/the-truth-about-
| loud-...
| int0x2e wrote:
| Sorry, but as a person with over 15 years of motorcycle
| driving experience - "loud pipes save lives" is mostly a
| myth. They may help sometimes, but they can also be dangerous
| since in some settings they can scare the heck out of the car
| driver which can lead to them making unpredictable choices.
|
| Ultimately, the best thing a rider can do is take total
| ownership over our safety - full protective gear, constantly
| taking advanced riding training courses, and above all -
| always riding at a reasonable speed for the road, visibility
| and traffic conditions.
| dharmab wrote:
| This is especially true in modern cars with great sound
| deadening and NVH. As my group of riders has observed when
| we ferry bikes into winter storage, the only bikes we can
| hear at all in our cars are practically straight piped.
| smoyer wrote:
| You just reminded me of an incident that happened to me on
| I83 near the PA border - a motorcyclist passed between me
| and the vehicle in the left lane (yes ... a two-lane road
| passing on the dashed line) going about 120 MPH. It wasn't
| the cycle passing at high speed very close to the car that
| scared me ... it was that I never saw him/her in my mirrors
| and the noise between two cars that were 4 feet apart was
| horrendous. I actually made me flinch at the wheel and I
| probably swerved a foot in my lane.
|
| I've known many conscientious motorcycle drivers but it's
| people like this that lead to emergency room doctors
| referencing "donorcycles".
| oskapt wrote:
| This doesn't deserve to be downvoted. The statement is
| correct. I have a permanently destroyed right foot and ankle
| because someone made a left turn from the right lane just
| outside the Holland Tunnel in NJ back in 2004. The driver
| "didn't see me" before making the illegal turn and planting
| his Mercedes horizontally across my lane as he slowed to
| enter the gas station driveway. I laid my quiet 800cc bike
| down and plowed into his car at 40mph, crushing my right leg
| between the bike and his driver side door. I now have 4 toes,
| limited mobility, and near constant pain with every step I
| take. After that I put straight pipes on my bike and had
| countless other situations where a car would start to change
| lanes into me and then move back when I gunned the engine to
| let them know I was there. Loud pipes save lives. Car drivers
| are often oblivious of their surroundings or distracted by
| their phones or music. When they check their blind spot the
| brain is looking for car or truck shapes and ignores
| motorcycle shapes as it quickly assesses the clearance of the
| lane. I've had people look right at me and then change lanes
| into me. I've kicked cars and cabs from my motorcycle as they
| are pushing me off the road. 100% of accidents where a car
| hit a bike use the excuse of not seeing the motorcyclist.
| I'll make sure they can hear me too.
| mhb wrote:
| If he was making a left turn from the right lane, maybe he
| would have collided with a car if one had been there also.
| tartoran wrote:
| As someone mentioned above, most of the motorcycle muffler
| sound is projected backwards.
|
| The louder is safety is just a myth to not comply. Most of
| it is ego and show off in my oppinion.
| gokhan wrote:
| Sorry for your accident. Just wanted to share my contrary
| experience.
|
| A motorcycle with loud pipes filtering right passed me fast
| in a two lane road while I was on the left lane, I was in
| my car. I am a former enduro rider myself and don't react
| when I hear a loud one, but the driver in front panicked as
| he was most probably didn't see him coming from his mirror,
| did a hard left, came dangerously close to barriers and did
| a hard right to correct, hit the motorcycle pushing him to
| the right lane. Motorcycle barely fit the space there and
| luckily didn't crash, but it was all happened on a very
| straight road with no one was turning or doing any
| movement, just straight driving.
|
| After 15 years, I have enough confidence that being muffled
| or not does not make any difference to safety, people
| hearing the thunder but not seeing the source is equally
| lethal to a rider. I'd rather have proper training,
| constant wearing full body armored motorcycle clothes and a
| much lighter/cooler riding attitude (not saying you didn't
| have / do any of this).
| kingkawn wrote:
| Folks here already decided they were too right for your
| experience. I hear you though.
| willis936 wrote:
| >back in 2004
|
| >distracted by their phones
|
| Have the roads gotten more dangerous in the past 15 years?
|
| Also the issue people have with loud exhaust is not that it
| draws attention on the highway; it's that people use it as
| a tool to be obnoxious. When I lived in a small town I
| would regularly get woken up at 2am by some shmuck opening
| up on main street. The entire town would be woken up. I had
| the urge to chase them down. It's not good for anyone.
| jacquesm wrote:
| And that's the real reason. These toddler narcissists are
| out to make it known to the world that here rides a
| badass, not that there is someone who drives responsibly
| and whose life depends on the volume of their exhaust.
| It's pathetic.
| claytoneast wrote:
| It's not possible that they might just enjoy loud
| machines? And you might not enjoy loud machines?
| ubercow13 wrote:
| Why would that be relevant or important? Frankly, it's
| not a justification for antisocial behaviour to 'like'
| it.
| nitrogen wrote:
| I have neighbors, friends, and family who ride
| motorcycles either for the speed or for the sound.
| They're mostly reasonable about it. But the thing about
| loud machines is that they are loud for everyone, who
| didn't get to choose whether to listen to that engine at
| 2AM.
|
| The comparison to toddlers is apt because we expect
| adults to be aware of the effects their actions have on
| others, and take steps to mitigate them in social
| reciprocity.
| dijit wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear that, but it's unlikely to improbable
| that "bike wasn't loud enough" was the cause there.
|
| Throwing away the idea that people in cars don't impede
| their own hearing with radio stations and music; sound
| produced by engines is not fantastically directional to
| hear and _mostly_ trails behind bikes (due to that being
| the location of the exhaust).
| ubercow13 wrote:
| It sounds equivalent to driving your car around with the
| horn constantly pressed for safety. Why not get a horn or
| something for your bike? Or wouldn't that sound as cool?
| alex_c wrote:
| Funny enough, that basically describes traffic in
| Vietnam.
| nitrogen wrote:
| I've heard that there are indeed places in the world
| where people will refuse to drive if the horn is not
| working, for this reason.
| gbrown wrote:
| That's the sales pitch, but I haven't seen any evidence.
| Almost all the sound is projected behind you, where people
| can already see you (and where high-vis clothing would be
| more effective than sound anyway, but you don't see many
| bikers wearing that).
|
| Anecdotally, the people I've known with loud exhaust systems
| are not what you'd call "safety conscious".
| Invictus0 wrote:
| Even if it's ineffective, it's still a psychological safety
| blanket. It's much the same reason that bikers ride in
| groups.
| SquishyPanda23 wrote:
| I'll keep that in mind next time a loud bike wakes up my
| children in the middle of the night.
|
| "It's okay honey, that man needed a psychological safety
| blanket.'
| tartoran wrote:
| This!! Mufflers and subwoofers wake up my child in the
| middle of the night and only we know how long it takes to
| fall asleep again. Its frustrating because both of these
| sources are completely unnecessary
| JasonFruit wrote:
| My kids would find that hilarious, and I'd have to resign
| myself to hearing it after every motorcycle that passes
| for weeks.
| jrootabega wrote:
| I'm not commenting either way on the value of loud motorcycles
| here, but is this related to the article? It says the danger
| comes from mounting the phone directly to the bike. As far as I
| can tell, it doesn't say that the acoustic vibrations damage
| the phone. Would the muffled exhaust also reduce the physical
| vibrations of the frame?
| jacquesm wrote:
| Judging by the vibrations of my walls: yes. The sooner a
| maximum noise emitted law for vehicles goes into practice the
| better. I have a neihgbor here who goes out for small trips
| 20+ times per day on his HD. Open the garage door, take the
| bike out (running, of course), close the garage door, rev it
| a couple of times, wait for a few minutes for the engine to
| warm up, roar away at maximum volume. Return 10 minutes
| later, leave bike on the stand while opening the garage door.
| Turn off bike. Close garage door. Wait 1/2 hour or so, rinse,
| repeat. No idea what he's up to but it's not a normal usage
| pattern as far as I can see and I'd be a-ok with that _if he
| would not make so much noise_. Even with headphones on you
| can clearly hear it and the vibration is enough to rattle the
| cup on my desk. With noise cancelling on on the headphone I
| don 't hear him.
| Camillo wrote:
| How are you going to deal with the situation?
| jrootabega wrote:
| Noise cancelling headphones can negate it but it could
| damage a phone? This seems more like the place for people
| to gather and say "I don't like motorcycles because loud."
| Which is fine, but let's not really say it's related to the
| post.
| spoonjim wrote:
| He's a delivery drug dealer. Very common for heroin and a
| major enabler of the heroin overdose epidemic. Allows
| people who are too zonked to do anything to still get their
| fix. Pioneered by Mexicans but now adopted by all kinds of
| criminal gangs.
| barneygale wrote:
| Shotters don't generally use loud/obvious vehicles
| dTal wrote:
| You seem very confident.
| bradknowles wrote:
| Sounds like someone needs to build an MRAD. You can put out
| as much noise as he does, and make sure it is very
| carefully aimed at the only suitable target.
| abotsis wrote:
| Years ago I had the vibrator in my phone go out as a result of
| being on my handlebars. Was really surprised to not see something
| about this come out earlier tbh.
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(page generated 2021-09-11 23:02 UTC)