[HN Gopher] A stranger secretly lived in my home
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A stranger secretly lived in my home
        
       Author : Gupie
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2021-09-10 11:18 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | bob229 wrote:
       | the guardian is trash, it's amazing anyone reads it. Stop sharing
       | it
        
       | spoonjim wrote:
       | This story was covered in a more riveting way on a podcast I once
       | heard, but I can't remember the name of it.
        
       | eth0up wrote:
       | Motion - Never leave home without it
       | 
       | * https://motion-project.github.io/
       | 
       | Several options I use are:
       | 
       | 1. Simply upload images/vids to server, cloud etc.
       | 
       | 2. Write images to external drive in mounted safe, if offline.
       | 
       | I've a script to initiate it with nohup, then activate physlock.
       | This helps protect the data.
       | 
       | A fantastic and less caveman implementation is described by this
       | HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24587745
       | 
       | No Amazon politics[1] and minimal data vulnerability.
       | 
       | 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346307
        
       | knbknb wrote:
       | In 2009 there was a Finnish woman who lived inside the buildings
       | of the Berlin Tegel airport, for several months. She was mentally
       | disturbed.
       | 
       | https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/escape-to-berli...
        
       | niffydroid wrote:
       | The worst part of the story for me was the puppy. I couldn't care
       | about her, but poor puppy
        
       | tarun_anand wrote:
       | How did this comment make to the top of HN?
       | 
       | The quality is deteriorating...
        
         | melenaboija wrote:
         | This works with votes and flags, the more votes a post or
         | comment of people visiting HN the higher it gets, inverse to
         | flags and some other factors but you will find more detail
         | here:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
         | 
         | About quality I guess is subjective but I would say there are
         | two options here:
         | 
         | - use the voting system to accommodate it to your quality
         | standards
         | 
         | - don't visit the page
        
           | bjelkeman-again wrote:
           | Also weekends have had a quite long tradition of having more
           | general interest subjects posted.
        
             | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
             | Agreed. I like that it feels like days off.
        
             | tarun_anand wrote:
             | Not noticed it but as I said we always have the option to
             | look elsewhere for "hacker" news
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > - use the voting system to accommodate it to your quality
           | standards
           | 
           | The downvoting seems increasingly bizarre. I have a post on
           | this page downvoted; I said the post above was reasonable.
           | 
           | The reasonable post was correcting me; it brought up a point
           | I had missed.
        
           | tarun_anand wrote:
           | Yes I guess not the place for "hacker" news anymore...
        
       | whirlingdervish wrote:
       | A couple years ago one of the devs I work with came in to the
       | office very early for some reason and discovered a man sleeping
       | in one of the conference rooms. After the fact we discovered that
       | an emergency exit door wasn't locking properly.
       | 
       | He didn't take anything even though he could have easily made off
       | with tens of thousands of dollars of electronics. He just needed
       | somewhere to sleep.
        
         | stevezsa8 wrote:
         | Your office got off lucky.
         | 
         | We had a guy walk into our office behind employees. No one
         | challenged the trespasser... he walked off with a stack of
         | laptops.
        
           | Scarblac wrote:
           | As a teenager I worked in a large logistics center for
           | supermarkets. Usually we would fill trucks that brought the
           | supplies to the supermarkets, but rarely they had ran out of
           | something small and would come to us with a van or so.
           | 
           | So one day two guys drive up with a van, park it at a loading
           | dock, go into the warehouse and start loading the van with
           | coffee. They even got help from some workers. Turns out they
           | weren't related to any customers at all, they just stole a
           | van full of coffee.
           | 
           | Which wouldn't be worth a story... But two weeks later, the
           | same guys did the exact same thing again, at the same
           | logistics center. Successfully, again. That takes some nerve.
        
             | AussieWog93 wrote:
             | >So one day two guys drive up with a van, park it at a
             | loading dock, go into the warehouse and start loading the
             | van with coffee. They even got help from some workers.
             | 
             | Reminds me of that scene from Trailer Park Boys
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/8d-bM-Whsmk
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > Your office got off lucky.
           | 
           | I disagree. Sleeper guy wanted to crash & didn't want their
           | hardware. There wasn't meaningful risk.
           | 
           | I think we make the mistake that perceiving risk makes it
           | real. It's reality that determines our actual risk tho.
        
             | anm89 wrote:
             | right, thats why they were lucky
        
             | tdeck wrote:
             | They got lucky in the sense that their exit door was
             | unlocked, and anyone (not just the sleeper guy) could have
             | discovered it.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | This is reasonable.
        
             | nsxwolf wrote:
             | Did you ask the women in your office how they felt about
             | that incident?
        
         | SkipperCat wrote:
         | Sadly that person could be charged with a crime instead of
         | being recognized as a person in need.
         | 
         | We should be viewing these situations as a cry for help instead
         | of a criminal activity. This is what I hoped the "Defund the
         | Police" movement was targeting. Sadly that phrase had good
         | intentions but pretty bad optics.
        
           | actually_a_dog wrote:
           | Even more sad is the fact that, although it's probably rare,
           | there are some people who will commit crimes in order to get
           | arrested, because it gets them off the street.
           | 
           | https://www.vice.com/en/article/4agyzq/a-homeless-
           | mississipp...
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > We should be viewing these situations as a cry for help
           | instead of a criminal activity.
           | 
           | You're right. When we uphold a law for the law's sake, we've
           | lost our way.
        
             | SkipperCat wrote:
             | Agreed - the "three strikes" and mandatory minimum
             | sentencing guidelines have had judges forced to issue
             | sentences which they, and their communities, felt were
             | absurdly high.
        
             | vegetablepotpie wrote:
             | Right, but laws enforced selectively based on feelings is
             | its own form of tyranny.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | It can be but usually isn't.
               | 
               | The value of a local, penalty-backed law is in it's
               | ability to guide bulk behavior. These laws imply a
               | bargain we make with our governments, that enforcement
               | will be limited to the stated objective.
               | 
               | Reducing traffic speeds by citing a few speeders - this
               | upholds that bargain. Citing every possible speeder while
               | those fines fatten the police budget is a gross
               | perversion.
        
           | toomim wrote:
           | Some people believe that phrase had good intentions.
           | 
           | Other people, like the NYTimes, believe it literally means
           | abolish the police:
           | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-
           | abol...
        
             | themacguffinman wrote:
             | You mean "Mariame Kaba" not the NYTimes, because that is an
             | NYT Opinion piece written by someone outside the NYT who
             | does not necessarily represent the NYT's editorial views.
             | Publishing other relevant perspectives that in-house
             | journalists may not write for is the entire point of the
             | Opinion section in every publication.
        
         | bloodguard wrote:
         | We had an AC tech ask us if we knew someone was living on our
         | roof. Turns out an coworker's GF kicked him out of his house*
         | and he was living up there.
         | 
         | Tent, free wifi, showers next to the bike room, full kitchen
         | and big 80 inch TVs down in the conference rooms. He was livin'
         | the life. He said he usually took down the tent and hid
         | everything every morning but just got complacent.
         | 
         | *Yes. His house. She told the cops she felt in danger. Cops
         | told him he had to stay somewhere else and go through the
         | eviction process. Mad world.
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > Yes. His house. She told the cops she felt in danger. Cops
           | told him he had to stay somewhere else and go through the
           | eviction process. Mad world.
           | 
           | The pendulum needed to swing toward protecting women by
           | default. As these things happen, it may have swung to a point
           | where nuance needs to be applied.
           | 
           | Your example seems fairly complex. I couldn't opine on it w/o
           | knowing the details of the complaint.
           | 
           | I can offer a different example. My ex's mental illness
           | sometimes required me to take a stronger hand in her life,
           | than would be benign otherwise. One time, she was in a
           | delusional state. She stole my van and left the area. I
           | wasn't able to report it stolen because she was my wife. The
           | police were protecting her from the possibility that I was
           | lying and using the police to harass her.
           | 
           | A stranger found her in the middle of the night, hundreds of
           | miles away, in a remote area wrapped only in a towel -
           | obviously not herself. I directed the guy to call the police
           | because he could do that. Local cops delivered her to a
           | facility where she was stabilized.
           | 
           | What I would change is that I would have had tightly limited
           | status as her caregiver. I'd want my wife and I to be
           | regularly evaluated by a female mental health professional,
           | who had training to detect manipulative spouses. In cases
           | where my wife might be in distress, police would defer to me.
           | Meanwhile the details would be immediately forwarded to the
           | MH pro overseeing my spouse, who'd have authority to
           | intervene, if she saw an issue.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Did your employer offer him a job as night security guard?
         | 
         | It appears he really badly wanted the position...
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | nsxwolf wrote:
         | He also might have attacked or raped someone. That is not a
         | safe situation. It's not just about property.
        
       | blamazon wrote:
       | Weirdly wholesome story, despite the dark undercurrent. Those of
       | a certain faith may argue the stranger was an angel.
        
       | rubinlinux wrote:
       | This reminded me of my aunt, who recently expressed concerns like
       | this. Someone uses my toothpaste, "I just bought this tube a few
       | weeks ago and it is almost empty" for example. And similar with
       | ice cream etc. Thing is, it was her. She has recently been
       | committed to a facility with Alzheimer's. At certain times, as
       | the disease drifts in and out, she is quite present and sane, and
       | cannot explain to herself the lost time any other way.
        
       | elcano wrote:
       | 'The Secret Apartment' is the story of a Vietnam vet who claims
       | to have lived in Veterans Stadium for years
       | 
       | https://www.inquirer.com/news/the-secret-apartment-vet-stadi...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | georgewsinger wrote:
       | This read like it could have been a chapter out of a Stephen King
       | novel, until the stranger saved the puppy:
       | 
       | > I got a puppy. While she was being toilet-trained, I kept her
       | in the bathroom. One day, when I was out, the apartment flooded.
       | I came home to find the puppy in the sink. She was tiny. I didn't
       | know how she could have got up there unless someone had put her
       | there to save her.
        
         | pen2l wrote:
         | I visited SanFran a couple of years ago, and this reminded me
         | of a homeless guy, in his late 60s I imagine, that I saw at a
         | fast food chain.
         | 
         | So I was I think at in-and-out, and a homeless guy was going
         | through the garbage bin to find food. When I came over to dump
         | my stuff in the bin, he was immediately considerate and stepped
         | aside so I could dump the covers and napkins, whilst making
         | sibilant sounds and keeping his gaze down in a strangely
         | submissive manner. And then the staff came over and tried to
         | make him leave the place. I recall he said no actual word but
         | put a mild challenge with more sibilant sounds but eventually
         | left. And I remember thinking, well, he smelled and I tried to
         | avoid physical contact, but was there really a need to make him
         | leave, and take away what small dignity the world had assigned
         | him? Clearly mentally off, I don't know, but trying to survive
         | in the way that he can. But I find myself thinking again what I
         | thought then -- there, but for the grace of god go I
        
           | kelp wrote:
           | Living in one of the worse parts of San Francisco, for the
           | past few years (west SOMA), I can say that people going
           | through your trash is quite a nuisance.
           | 
           | You'll put your trash out for pickup day, and a significant
           | portion of the time, someone will come and go through it. And
           | often as they are going through it, they will just throw
           | random things on the ground. So our little side street kind
           | of has a constant layer of trash.
           | 
           | The city does employ people to come through and pick it up,
           | and they do that regularly, but they would have to do it
           | daily to really keep the street clean. I think they come more
           | like weekly.
           | 
           | Tangentially, I was walking my dog this morning, and had to
           | ensure she didn't step on the used hypodermic needle on the
           | sidewalk. Nothing covering the needle. This happens all the
           | time.
           | 
           | Right now they are at least 3 tents on my small side street
           | block.
           | 
           | For businesses, like if you were at an In-n-out you must have
           | been at Fishermans wharf, that's the only one in SF. They
           | regularly have to ask people to leave who are acting in
           | various disruptive ways, and bothering their customers.
           | 
           | A few years back, I was sitting at a bar in SF, that had
           | outdoor tables. I think I was on a first (and only) date. I
           | guy walked up, took my dates glass of white wine, drank the
           | whole thing down, and then said "I'm an alcoholic". And then
           | just stood there looking at us.
           | 
           | (Also as someone who's lived in San Francisco for years, I
           | just can't help but be triggered when someone says San Fran.)
        
             | throwdecro wrote:
             | It's a city, not a mall. If you want to keep alcoholics
             | away from your beverage, it would make sense to not have it
             | out by the sidewalk when they stroll by. Otherwise, that's
             | life in the (sorta) big city.
        
               | kwhitefoot wrote:
               | > that's life in the (sorta) big city.
               | 
               | Not in any city where I have had a drink in a pavement
               | cafe! Not even in the US.
        
               | nelsondev wrote:
               | You are victim blaming, and have low standards.
               | 
               | I, for one, would like to live in a city where I can
               | eat/drink outside without fear of someone stealing my
               | food.
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | And I want a pony
        
             | throw1234651234 wrote:
             | Yeaaaa, but you guys have SEALS and electric skooters that
             | tell you where the bad areas of the city are (where you
             | can't leave your scoot). It's good times all around. And
             | that windy road thingy.
        
             | lisper wrote:
             | > people going through your trash is quite a nuisance.
             | 
             | Sure, but who is ultimately responsible for this, the
             | people going through the trash, or the people who have
             | structured our society in such a way that there are people
             | who think their best option in life is to scavenge other
             | people's trash? Because I'm pretty sure that the people
             | going through the trash would stop in an instant if they
             | were offered a better alternative.
        
               | anm89 wrote:
               | there are no "people who structure society" in a
               | meaningful sense. no one sat in a meeting and said " ok
               | lets design it so some people have to eat out of the
               | trashcan"
               | 
               | yes some people have more pull than others, maybe a lot
               | more, but even the president doesnt have that kind of
               | ability to "structure" the day to day reality of average
               | people ina generalized way
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | > there are no "people who structure society" in a
               | meaningful sense
               | 
               | That is ridiculous. Our society is governed by laws and
               | social norms. Those are not handed down from heaven by
               | the gods, they are made by people. Yes, it's true that
               | "the people who structure society" is not a small or
               | easily-identifiable group. That doesn't mean that this
               | group of people does not exist. It most assuredly does
               | (and if you are on HN you are probably a member of that
               | group).
        
               | anm89 wrote:
               | If all of HN is in this group than the group is so large
               | as to be meaningless. 1% of all Americans is more than 3
               | million people.
               | 
               | I certainly don't wake up in the morning and ordain where
               | people get there food from even if I'm an incremental
               | part of structures that have some influence on the
               | economics of America (all voters are)
               | 
               | > That doesn't mean that this group of people does not
               | exist.
               | 
               | This logic sounds a whole lot like what a moon landing
               | denier would say. I'm not saying you are in that group
               | but the line of reasoning is the same.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | That is equally ridiculous. A group does not become
               | meaningless once it gets beyond a certain size. The
               | Republican Party is very large. That does not make it
               | meaningless.
        
               | swman wrote:
               | I live close to Los Angeles so here's my take. Even where
               | I live an hour away there is a sizable homeless
               | population.
               | 
               | Most people who enter homelessness leave it within a
               | couple of weeks. That's because these are people like you
               | and me who due to unlucky bad circumstances are out on
               | the street. They want to get back on their feet so they
               | take advantage of social services, don't have drug
               | addictions or mental illnesses, and maybe have broader
               | support structure through friends and family.
               | 
               | Then you have about 40% of the chronically homeless who
               | are unfortunately not served well by the public services.
               | These folks have mental illness that is left untreated
               | and it's sad to see them die slowly on the streets. These
               | are fellow humans who are mentally incapable of making
               | decisions, and they need full time care or something that
               | puts them in a safer environment. We have ignored mental
               | illness in this country.
               | 
               | The remainder is basically people who willingly want to
               | be homeless and do drugs. They won't enter shelters
               | because you can't do drugs there. They won't take up
               | temporary housing because the hosts ask for basic decency
               | like no raging inside.
               | 
               | I think we need to make a clear separation between
               | mentally ill/addicts and those who want to just do their
               | own thing. Ultimately I'm paying A LOT in taxes and I
               | feel that I have a right to access the public parks and
               | not have to deal with belligerent people who pose a
               | safety threat to the community. I can excuse the folks
               | with mental illnesses or drug addiction as I believe we
               | have an opportunity to help them - but if some folks
               | adamantly refuse help then I'm not going to settle for
               | letting public places just become dumping grounds.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | > Most people who enter homelessness leave it within a
               | couple of weeks.
               | 
               | I'm a bit skeptical of the "Most" claim but it's based on
               | anecdotal evidence from recent years of interacting with
               | our sizable homeless community. I haven't seen any stats.
               | 
               | > They want to get back on their feet so they take
               | advantage of social services
               | 
               | While the first part is undeniably true, the latter
               | depends on the availability or existence of social
               | services. Southern US states are openly hostile toward
               | folks with long term vulnerabilities. Where services
               | exist, politicians here proudly trim them back where they
               | can.
               | 
               | >and maybe have broader support structure through friends
               | and family.
               | 
               | My mom rescued me from homelessness when I was a
               | teenager. The odds of escaping homelessness without help
               | are ~0.
        
               | grkvlt wrote:
               | you are interacting with the chronic permanently homeless
               | population, what gp is talking about is the fact that
               | there is an even larger population of temporarily
               | homeless. although the statement is true, i don't think
               | it is a useful distinction, because what most people mean
               | by 'homeless' is those chronic cases, anyway, and that is
               | the problem society, government and homeless charities
               | are trying to solve. acknowledging there is another set
               | of people with similar problems is great, but as pointed
               | out, these people generally are getting the support they
               | need, and are a 'solved' problem (in some sense) unlike
               | the people you have been interacting with, who still need
               | some kind of help and are not receiving it...
               | 
               | the skepticism is justified by simply defining
               | homelessness as being without a home for more than a few
               | weeks (the 'usual' definition, tbh) thus making gp's
               | statement obviously false, i suppose.
        
               | noasaservice wrote:
               | > Because I'm pretty sure that the people going through
               | the trash would stop in an instant if they were offered a
               | better alternative.
               | 
               | Mostly, yes. Having been homeless myself for an extended
               | period, I saw just how much mental illnesses impact so
               | many people experiencing homelessness.
               | 
               | In my completely unscientific lodgings with them, I'd say
               | its probably around 30% of the people have some sort of
               | debilitating mental illness. I had other reasons for
               | homelessness (lost job, eviction) which are much more
               | mechanical and easier to fix.
               | 
               | I've talked with my SO about the mentally ill on the
               | streets, and the only plan that seems to might work is to
               | forcefully treat them, get them mentally sound, explain
               | their whole situation, and have them choose. It would be
               | in writing, and sealed with a palmscan. And I get that
               | forcefully treating them once may be considered
               | abhorrent, but they are not able in their state of mind
               | to make decisions for themselves.
               | 
               | Once they're of sound mind, they should then have
               | complete agency to choose to remain on the streets, or to
               | obtain emergency services to get out of homelessness.
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | AFAIK, it is kind of cycle. Being mentally ill makes you
               | more likely to be homeless. Being homeless makes all your
               | mental health issues much much worst.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | > AFAIK, it is kind of cycle.
               | 
               | For folks who need meds, getting them to stay on them can
               | be hugely difficult. It's even harder when that person
               | lacks shelter and support.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | I was homeless for less than a year. In my case, my mom
               | (term cancer) and I were tossed from our long time family
               | home.
               | 
               | The way - the only way - my homelessness ended is I had
               | help.
        
               | ficklepickle wrote:
               | I know it is a tempting idea, but forced treatment is an
               | oxymoron. You can't force anybody to get healthy,
               | unfortunately. As usual, prevention is worth a metric
               | shit ton of treatment. Apart from that, all you can
               | really do is reduce harm and marginally improve quality
               | of life through housing, etc. Not that a marginal
               | improvement in QoL is anything to scoff at.
        
               | trulyme wrote:
               | Or maybe just offer them some basic food for free, so
               | they don't need to dig in trash cans for it? At least the
               | western societies (I don't know and have no opinion on
               | others) are producing enough food that there is no reason
               | not to offer some basic nutrition to everyone.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | > At least the western societies are producing enough
               | food that there is no reason not to offer some basic
               | nutrition to everyone.
               | 
               | I live in one of the southern US states that tends to be
               | hostile towards people in need. My kids and I had on-and-
               | off hunger 2008-2018.
        
               | yesasaservice wrote:
               | (created alt cause of HN's idiotic "posting too fast" -
               | how dare I have a conversation with people online)
               | 
               | I don't understand what I said somehow excludes helping
               | in other ways.
               | 
               | My views are probably a bit more radical, in that I think
               | that everyone should have free food. Homeless, homeful,
               | working, unemployed, citizen, foreigner. Everyone. No
               | exceptions. And, we already have a basis to maintain this
               | system - SNAP.
               | 
               | So when I talked about how to help those whom are
               | experiencing homelessness combined with debilitating
               | mental illnesses, I'm talking of making that program...
               | Not by destroying other programs.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | My 1 second old idea is for their psych clinic to offer
               | free food in trade for checking their blood levels. It
               | the meds are insufficient, they get Rx food.
               | 
               | Can't tell if I'll offer that idea again, once I think
               | about it.
        
               | kirsebaer wrote:
               | There are very few mentally ill people wandering the
               | streets in Oslo, Norway. I have seen one guy with unkept
               | dredlocks who seems to enjoy hanging around and chatting
               | to passers by, but he almost certainly has a public-
               | funded apartment and generous disability pension.
               | 
               | The difference is very striking compared with Boston (a
               | city with similar climate to Oslo) where there are many
               | obviously mentally ill people wandering around talking
               | nonsense, begging for money, carrying their things in
               | plastic bags, and sleeping on the ground.
        
           | lisper wrote:
           | > there, but for the grace of god go I
           | 
           | You might be interested in this:
           | 
           | https://graceofgodmovie.com/
           | 
           | [Disclosure: that is my movie.]
        
             | SmkyMt wrote:
             | I look forward to viewing it this evening. And FWIW: It
             | could motivate me to _buy_ ($20) rather than _rent ($4)
             | [from Amazon] if I knew the respective portions that go to
             | (your) production company rather than just to Amazon.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | Yes, I get a cut of every sale and rental, thought I
               | don't recall exactly how much. It's a very small income
               | stream and I don't really need the money. So much as I
               | appreciate the gesture, you should feel free to rent.
               | Frankly, a good review is worth much more to me than a
               | sale.
        
               | julianh95 wrote:
               | +1 on this. I'd much rather spend more money if I knew it
               | directly supported the creator/maker/etc. I often do this
               | with my purchases where I look for their direct website
               | and purchase from there.
        
           | yann2 wrote:
           | Offtopic but I feel I must add, sibilant sounds are an
           | effective way to get boring meetings to end quick.
        
             | mc32 wrote:
             | They are also tropes in old movies and cartoons when
             | someone wants to pretend "there is nothing to see here, I'm
             | just whistling in the wind... minding my own business"
             | maybe throw in some foot shuffling.
        
           | elcano wrote:
           | I would assume that you would have to very mentally stable to
           | resist all that humiliation without going nuts.
           | 
           | I have a friend that wasn't homeless, but all unemployment
           | money was used on rent required to keep his shared custody
           | (without an apartment to house the kids, you cannot have
           | custody). He always was clean and used good clothes, but he
           | made the line with homeless people to get free food daily.
           | Otherwise he wouldn't have money to eat.
           | 
           | He said that the worst part of all was the look from
           | voluntary women that were working on the food delivery
           | organization. Each woman reacts differently to men. But he
           | says that this is completely different. The look is like if
           | he wasn't even a man - it's like they are feeding a lesser
           | species. He says that he have never experienced the same
           | reaction from women in other contexts, and that it hurts. It
           | steals away all feeling of manliness. Luckily he got out of
           | that situation many years ago.
        
           | throw1234651234 wrote:
           | Pro-tip on charity - see someone eating out of the trash?
           | They could probably actually use your money. Much more
           | effective than giving it to panhandlers.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | They're looking for recyclables (for deposit refunds), and
             | other things of value.
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | I have been wondering how I'd feel if someone cleaned out
               | our recycle bins, before the truck picks them up. Our
               | house alone goes thru a lot of aluminum.
        
               | nobodyandproud wrote:
               | In NYC a few years back, old women and men (elderly,
               | often Chinese?) would regularly go through the trash
               | refuse bins and collect cans and bottles. It was
               | apparently a way to feel useful and busy while also
               | earning some money.
               | 
               | One of my passing thoughts is that recycling could be a
               | way to keep people occupied and also perform an extremely
               | useful service. That is, expand on this.
               | 
               | The cynic in me, however, feels that this would turn into
               | a dystopian nightmare rather quickly.
        
             | pbourke wrote:
             | Or at least a meal from the restaurant.
        
               | throw1234651234 wrote:
               | Yea, there is that aspect of it. Ideally, I will go buy
               | them a meal, so they can't use the money for other
               | things. I personally don't indulge in "other things", but
               | I don't know how concerned I am about them using the
               | money for that either. I think it's very, very difficult
               | for someone digging through trash to get their life
               | together, so if they indulge, they indulge. Note that
               | it's not a comment on their character or anything of the
               | sort, just the sheer number of things needed to re-adjust
               | in society from zero, with zero real help.
               | 
               | Another point is that in most countries outside of the
               | US, panhandlers are either "working for themselves" and
               | make decent money, perhaps better than at a low-end job
               | while having proper living arrangements, etc (and thus
               | "rob" the true poor from the donation). It can also be
               | worse, with situations where panhandlers are actually
               | curated by an organizer who pays them a salary and takes
               | a profit. The latter schemes are also mixed up in
               | exploitation.
               | 
               | Now that I type it all out, I am realizing that buying a
               | meal also prevents the second scenario too. Good stuff.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | From a logical point of view from a resource management
               | perspective you giving them money is better and allows
               | them to get more bang from that gift.
               | 
               | You buy a McD combo drop it off and feel good. They have
               | to eat it right away. There stomach will not be able to
               | handle it all. They cannot save split the food.
               | 
               | If you give them money they could still dumpster dive for
               | food, keep the money and buy other things they need like
               | (maxi pads, or 1 food bar every morning for a week or a
               | stamp to mail someone or quarters to make a call). They
               | can buy a smaller meal or food in a form that will allow
               | them to space it out over time. Most importantly they can
               | buy the type of food that works best from them.
               | 
               | 5 dollars could have multiplier effect. A pre-purchased
               | fast food meal will leaving the homeless person craving
               | for days.
               | 
               | The homeless are drinking/doing drugs less than homed
               | people drinking/doing drugs because they don't have the
               | resources. I would be concerned with salaried beggers.
        
               | throw1234651234 wrote:
               | That's a valid point as well.
        
               | grkvlt wrote:
               | if you give someone begging on the street with a drug
               | habit money that they use for drugs, they either won't
               | have to steal to fund their habit or they won't suffer
               | through painful drug withdrawl, neither of which is good
               | (the first for society, the second for them) so there's
               | that. whether it'd be the ethically correct thing to
               | refuse just because you don't approve of drug use is a
               | complicated question...
        
               | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
               | I had a guy ask for $5 to buy cigarettes and beer. I gave
               | it to him. Too often, I can't buy honesty at any price.
        
       | bshimmin wrote:
       | If you have nothing better to do, many of the "Experience" series
       | in The Guardian are a fun read:
       | https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/series/experience
        
         | Zababa wrote:
         | I like how honest the titles are, especially with the
         | "Experience: " before everything.
        
       | davidwritesbugs wrote:
       | Many many years ago I got kicked out of student halls at
       | university. I used to keep my stuff in my lockers and sleep in
       | the bathing rooms all night. If people tried to use one I'd yell
       | "In the bath". One time I slept in a student lounge behind some
       | sofas and very late a couple came in and made out, and I remained
       | as still as I could. As they left the girl said "I could swear
       | there was someone else in there" haha.
        
       | bserge wrote:
       | Wasn't there a similar story in Japan? Also multiple stories of
       | people secretly living in office building and warehouses. Gotta
       | make do, I guess.
        
         | TigeriusKirk wrote:
         | At one company I worked for, a new hire started living on a
         | floor under construction in the building. He thought no one
         | knew, but we all did. Stayed up there for months since
         | management was afraid of confronting him about it for some
         | reason. He did do good work, I guess.
        
           | newsbinator wrote:
           | How did everybody know? What gave it away?
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | At my university a student lived in the physics building for a
         | while since they didn't want to commute. I've also heard that
         | at my high school, after I graduated, a kid was found sleeping
         | in the drop ceiling due to likely an abusive home.
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | After the first time I dropped out of college, I had a three
           | week period of homelessness. Since students had the keypad
           | codes for after-hours access to the academic buildings, I
           | slept in the math department lounge. There was a visiting
           | professor from Germany, I think, who would come into the
           | lounge every morning, see me sleeping and leave. I then would
           | hide my pillow and blanket behind the sofa and walk to a dorm
           | at the far end of campus where I could take a shower (most of
           | the dorms on campus had bathrooms accessible only from dorm
           | rooms but the one farthest away had a more traditional
           | bathroom down the hall arrangement--and also a keypad whose
           | code I knew).
           | 
           | I like to imagine that the visiting professor would come back
           | with some other faculty/staff member in tow saying, "I tell
           | you, he's HERE! sleeping in the lounge!" only to be treated
           | like Big Bird trying to show people Snuffleupagous.
        
           | selimthegrim wrote:
           | I lived in my office for a month or two when I was a grad
           | student at a UC about a decade ago. I just put cardboard all
           | over the windows.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | RMS moved into his office after his house was burned down in an
         | insurance fire.
        
         | jmclnx wrote:
         | Many years ago this happened in my area, it was in a grocery
         | store (part of a large chain), but not as bad as in her house.
         | 
         | When workers showed up, they would be 1 or 2 wrappings on the
         | floor and other minor things people would not take major notice
         | of.
         | 
         | He got caught because the night crew schedule was changed and
         | never posted, he was found walking in his night cloths.
         | 
         | He was a in his (low 20s) lived in a forgotten attic above the
         | main store. Seemed he was an ex-employee who had setup a nice
         | small apartment up there. Had a bed, small frig and a TV. He
         | lived there for years.
         | 
         | They never prosecuted him because the company would be
         | embarrassed.
         | 
         | These days I would think that would be very hard to do with all
         | the cameras around.
         | 
         | I know this because I worked at that store right after he got
         | caught when I was very young.
        
         | tompazourek wrote:
         | The critically acclaimed South Korean movie "Parasite" has a
         | story like that.
        
           | guyomes wrote:
           | Another recommended Korean movie with a story like that is
           | "3-iron". It has a more poetic approach.
        
       | tomcooks wrote:
       | When I was cycling between Lisbon wnd Istanbul I made sure to
       | either sleep far from view or to be as obnoxiously visible as
       | possible (calling the local municipality, cleaning around
       | campsite, knocking doors of farms nearby) precisely to avoid
       | scaring people. I was lucky enough to do my homelessness as a
       | choice, I can only imagine how many persons do this in city
       | environments ourbof need of a shelter.
        
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