[HN Gopher] Massive animal species discovered in half-billion-ye...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Massive animal species discovered in half-billion-year-old Burgess
       Shale
        
       Author : hhs
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2021-09-08 19:52 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.rom.on.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.rom.on.ca)
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | It makes sense to me that body shapes were all over the map in
       | the Cambrian. Life had just begun to fit into ecological niches.
       | It was the wild west! A life form only had to have some small
       | advantage to explode onto the scene. Even more so when the niche
       | was empty, so competition was slight.
       | 
       | Niches themselves gyrated wildly as life forms evolved, each
       | being an opportunity for some other life form to capitalize on.
       | Rock, paper, scissors, Spock and on and on!
       | 
       | It took a long time to settle, and for life to start 2nd and 3rd-
       | order optimizations to their niche. It became harder to 'move
       | about' in the evolutionary landscape, when spaces started filling
       | up. Certain body types became 'popular' and took over from some
       | of the stranger ones. It became important not to have too many
       | 'sports' e.g. body details that were expensive and not too
       | useful.
       | 
       | I imagine the Cambrian as a sort of 'initial condition' game of
       | chance for life on Earth. Change things a little back then, and
       | we might have tentacles or pincer mouths!
        
         | plushpuffin wrote:
         | It was like the early days of WoW, when nobody knew what they
         | were doing, not even the developers!
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | How is there not a silhouette of a person standing next to this
       | thing?
       | 
       | Paleontology reporters, you have _one job_.
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | It's hard to sell "massive animal species" when you put a
         | person silhouette and realize it was the size of a corgi.
        
         | LanceH wrote:
         | Then people think that dinosaurs and humans coexisted. They
         | just can't win.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | nsajko wrote:
       | There are more reconstructions and some photos in the linked
       | paper, e.g.:
       | https://royalsocietypublishing.org/cms/asset/1a42ffff-eeca-4...
       | 
       | Meeting one of these would be quite uncanny, as it's very
       | different from the animals that live today.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | davidw wrote:
       | > "The sheer size of this animal is absolutely mind-boggling,
       | this is one of the biggest animals from the Cambrian period ever
       | found"
       | 
       | ...
       | 
       | > With an estimated total length of half a meter
       | 
       | I suppose for specialists who understand what was floating around
       | back then it's impressive, but that seemed a bit underwhelming to
       | me.
        
         | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
         | Yes, it's a click bait title.
         | 
         | Yes, it's still fascinating and mind boggling if you know a
         | little of the background.
        
           | davidw wrote:
           | I didn't say it wasn't interesting. But it would have
           | probably been even more interesting without building it up as
           | 'massive creature' that's actually the size of my cat.
        
         | nighthawk454 wrote:
         | It's all relative I suppose, no? They were fairly clear on the
         | scale right in the section you quoted, right at the top:
         | 
         | > With an estimated total length of half a meter, Titanokorys
         | was a giant compared to most animals that lived in the seas at
         | that time, most of which barely reached the size of a pinky
         | finger.
        
         | NelsonMinar wrote:
         | you left out the part of the quote that gives it context.
         | "compared to most animals that lived in the seas at that time,
         | most of which barely reached the size of a pinky finger."
        
           | davidw wrote:
           | Yes, but with the headline and the guy talking 'massive'...
           | they could have included a 'relative to' or something? I was
           | expecting some kind of deep sea leviathan.
        
             | Fricken wrote:
             | The relation was made in the headline. It stands to reason
             | that a massive half billion year old animal would be
             | massive relative to other animals from a half billion years
             | ago.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Does the average person have a good sense of how big
               | animals were 500 million years ago vs. 250-300 million
               | years ago? The latter of which was quite big, and any
               | 'massive' from there on would be fitting by modern
               | standards.
        
               | stan_rogers wrote:
               | The average _interested_ person would have, yes. That
               | would include anybody who 's watched any of the relevant
               | PBS Nova programming, or any of David Attenborough's
               | work, etc. - you don't need to have kept your head in the
               | journals to be informed at that level.
        
             | isk517 wrote:
             | 'Dog-sized animal species discovered...' gets a lot less
             | clicks.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | xqcgrek2 wrote:
       | If I had a time machine, the Cambrian and the period immediately
       | preceding it would be the first place I'd go.
       | 
       | It's so incredibly interesting that whatever happened caused the
       | first proper multicellular life to arise after 3-3.5 billion
       | years of just single celled life.
        
         | hellbannedguy wrote:
         | In fifth grade, I had to write a paper on Evolution vs
         | Creationism.
         | 
         | We had to do an oral report. I was terrified.
         | 
         | I picked Creationism.
         | 
         | I used the lack of advanced life in the Cambrian as my evidence
         | of a God.
         | 
         | Nice teacher. I forget her name. I think it's Mrs. Gonzolas?
         | 
         | She told me a story about her marriage. She got married the
         | previous year. Her, and her husband, went to Mexico on their
         | honeymoon. They decided to drive their VW van.
         | 
         | They parked for the night near the ocean. Something they did
         | for the past week. She, and her husband, saw three sombreros
         | poke their heads over a mountian. They went to sleep. In the
         | middle of the night, they took her husband. They didn't take
         | their belongings, just her husband.
         | 
         | She never saw him again. She contacted police, and drove
         | straight home. She never found out why they took him.
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | I call GPT.
        
         | trhway wrote:
         | previous stages of any exponential process look very slow from
         | the late stages of it. The process of producing and
         | complicating the single cell life [from nothing] in these
         | 3-3.5B have tremendous complexity on its own.
        
         | user982 wrote:
         | You might like this short story:
         | http://mrsfacca.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/1/2/7612927/opabinia_...
        
         | cvg wrote:
         | Maybe you did and brought multicellular life back with you.
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | Will do that. They haven't yet, presumably. At least from our
           | perspective, anyway.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | They will and did. That's how life started, millions of
             | years ago.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | From some of the underwhelmed comments here, perhaps the
       | significance of the Burgess Shale is not widely understood.
       | 
       | This book is an amazing read and will explain it, if you're
       | interested: https://www.bookdepository.com/Wonderful-Life-
       | Stephen-Jay-Go...
       | 
       | The Burgess Shale contains fossils from some of the earliest
       | complex multi cellular life. Prior to this, for billions of years
       | life was single cell or collections of single cell organisms.
       | This is the time when complex life first appeared on earth, and
       | the animals that evolved then were startlingly weird. And yes,
       | most of them were very small.
       | 
       | What seems to have happened, is that "one day" (in geological
       | terms) there was nothing but single cell organisms, and
       | essentially "next day" (again, in geological time frames) there
       | was an absolute explosion of complex life/animals.
       | 
       | Most interesting about life at this time is not just the
       | diversity of life, but the diversity of fundamental types of
       | animals. For some reason at this time evolution was free to come
       | up with entirely new types of "animal designs", not just
       | modifications of previously existing body types.
       | 
       | Today, all animals on earth are classified into a very small
       | number of basic types of animal - (perhaps only 5?). but many of
       | the fossils found in the Burgess Shale are so strange that it's
       | not clear that they belong to _any_ known family of animals. This
       | implies that back then there might have been many, many
       | fundamental types of animal, today we are left with only a
       | handful of basics types.
       | 
       | There's even the suggestion that there are creatures that can't
       | really be classified into plant or animal - it's not clear what
       | they are at all.
       | 
       | Forgive me if I get the above wrong - I'm no expert, just an
       | enthusiast. Maybe others can provide more information about the
       | basic types of animal and how this relates to the Burgess Shale.
       | 
       | The Burgess Shale is a window into the absolutely most
       | interesting time of earths history.
       | 
       | An animal the size of a dog might have been the largest animal on
       | earth.
        
         | davidw wrote:
         | I think science is interesting enough in its own right that you
         | don't need to oversell it. It is not a 'massive creature', but
         | it's fascinating nonetheless when explained in context and
         | without the clickbaity headline.
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | Just to add: if anyone is interested in learning more about the
         | sudden appearance of extremely varied life, this event is
         | called the "Cambrian explosion" and makes for some very
         | interesting reading.
        
         | holler wrote:
         | > There's even the suggestion that there are creatures that
         | can't really be classified into plant or animal - it's not
         | clear what they are at all.
         | 
         | Could you expand on that at all? It sounds really fascinating.
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | All life of course at this time is in the ocean.
           | 
           | There's things that look like ferns, and are attached to the
           | sea floor. But they lived at such a depth that the sunlight
           | would not have been able to reach them so they could not have
           | been plants.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charnia
           | 
           | "The living organism grew on the sea floor and is believed to
           | have fed on nutrients in the water. Despite Charnia's fern-
           | like appearance, it is not a photosynthetic plant or alga
           | because the nature of the fossilbeds where specimens have
           | been found implies that it originally lived in deep water,
           | well below the photic zone where photosynthesis can occur. "
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-09-08 23:00 UTC)