[HN Gopher] How to properly load a dishwasher (2020)
___________________________________________________________________
How to properly load a dishwasher (2020)
Author : imartin2k
Score : 146 points
Date : 2021-09-06 10:14 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| Despite all the advice, I've been washing knives in the
| dishwasher for a decade and they are still totally fine. They
| certainly don't "rust". What kind of metal are these people
| making knives out of?
| toast0 wrote:
| Depends on your detergent too, the lemon scented stuff seems to
| induce way more rust than the unscented.
| exmadscientist wrote:
| Dishwashers tend to destroy the handles and edges of knives. If
| your knives survive... what kind are they, so I can buy some?
| raldi wrote:
| I've got a cheap chef's knife from the restaurant-supply
| store -- I think it was $30 -- and have been dishwashing it
| exclusively since 2009, and it's totally fine.
|
| https://i.imgur.com/tL699FA.jpg
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| Victorinox Fibrox Pro Chef's Knife:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008M5U1C2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b.
| ..
|
| These are highly recommended for a being cheap yet good
| chef's knife. Mine has survived 5 years of daily dishwasher
| cleaning...
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| I also use Victorinox Fibrox Pro series knives. They're
| inexpensive, partially forged, easy to sharpen, and stay
| sharp surprisingly long as long as you take care of them.
|
| I do not dishwasher mine, however, and I do not soak them.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| There are four viable takes for why not to put chef knives in
| dishwashers...
|
| 1) It can be dangerous for anyone reaching into the dishwasher
| not expecting to find a sharp knife. If you live alone and no
| one else reaches in there and you're always at maximum
| vigilance, you do you. But I've known two people who got their
| hands and wrists sliced open horribly by sharp dishwasher
| knives.
|
| 2) Every stainless steel kitchen knife I've ever seen where the
| person regularly put it in the dishwasher had an edge that was
| so etched and eaten away that it basically looked serrated.
| Sample size is probably 20 for those. Knives I've seen where
| the person never put them in the dishwasher may have had a few
| dings and nicks, but they never looked like their edges were
| being dissolved away. Note though that this isn't necessarily a
| bad thing if you don't have an emotional attachment to the
| knife. A serrated knife is basically sharp on its own for free
| without sharpening.
|
| 3) Even if the blade isn't appreciably harmed, the rest of the
| knife made of other materials can be, and the handle could
| crack, loosen, or weaken. This depends on how the handle is
| made and attached.
|
| 4) Fancypants non-stainless steel knives do exist and will
| rust. (see e.g.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Bladesmith/comments/bj63yu/this_is_...
| ) I don't really get why anyone likes them though.
| athenot wrote:
| 5) The knives can cut the plastic coating on the dishwasher
| tray/rack and then the inner metal starts corroding. Don't
| ask how I know...
|
| As for your fourth point, soft metals sharpen in a few
| seconds. My high carbon steel knives will slice right through
| tomato peel without smashing the tomato itself; or cut raw
| meet in one quick movement.
| korethr wrote:
| > Fancypants non-stainless steel knives do exist and will
| rust. > I don't really get why anyone likes them though.
|
| The non-stainless alloys will have an easier time taking and
| keeping a very sharp edge. This makes them more useful, and
| for longer. Not only does a very sharp edge make the knife
| easier and faster to work with, is safer to use than a not-
| so-sharp knife.
| dekhn wrote:
| when my wife puts my nice knife in the dishwasher, it ends up
| with gouges in the blade. It's not particularly high end but it
| is quality steel. The washer has never done _anything_ to the
| handle or the connection between the handle and the blade (I
| expect this knife to last 30+ more years. Good deal for $150).
| The dings in the blade- that is fixed by routine periodic
| resharpening.
| anderiv wrote:
| The alloy of high-carbon steel that is used in many high-end
| knives will absolutely rust if washed in the dishwasher.
| Stainless steel knives generally won't rust, of course.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| The Guardian left out what I consider the most likely 'failure
| mode' for someone that thinks dishwashers are a magical cleaning
| box. Make sure the spinning wash arms are not blocked AND
| everything is secure, so knives, forks, lids, etc. can not fall
| and block the wash arm's spin. Lots of cycles seem to fail around
| here when someone can't seem to remember how gravity still
| affects things in the dishwasher..
| nate_meurer wrote:
| Yes. It took me a year to figure out why my Bosch sporadically
| left loads of dishes dirty. It turned out that some of our
| smaller square dishes are able to poke down through the rack
| far enough to stop the lower wash arm.
| post_break wrote:
| Lemi shine is the game changer for us. A tiny bit into the
| machine and everything comes out way better. Unfortunately
| everyone is switching to pods which do a bad job in the dish
| washers I've used. Seems like only the dollar stores sell the
| dishwasher powder these days. Lemi shine and lemi shine boost,
| not paid by them but give it a try if your machine always does a
| bad job, a little goes a long way too. I originally found it by
| washing brass (I reload ammo).
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| >Seems like only the dollar stores sell the dishwasher powder
| these days.
|
| Target and Trader Joes each have powdered. No need to stoop to
| dollar store levels ;)
| post_break wrote:
| Don't knock dollar stores. I get a lot of stuff there because
| I don't need a large amount before it goes bad or stuff that
| is good enough or discounted.
| raldi wrote:
| They didn't mention the most important tip: Most dishwashers draw
| from the hot water tap and then use the first ~gallon that comes
| out for the crucial first scrub, regardless of what temperature
| comes out the pipe.
|
| Thus, you'll get much better results if, right before pressing
| Start, you run the kitchen sink's hot water tap until it gets
| hot.
|
| Second best tip: Spill a bit of detergent outside the detergent
| box so the initial scrub gets some soap. (The rest gets released
| in the secondary wash cycle.)
| RandallBrown wrote:
| >Spill a bit of detergent outside the detergent box so the
| initial scrub gets some soap.
|
| Many (most?) dishwashers have a special section for putting
| soap that gets used in the pre-rinse cycle. In mine it would be
| functionally identical to spilling some extra detergent, but
| it's easier to consistently measure the right amount.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Newer models are doing away with this, especially those
| intended for use with detergent tablets.
| raldi wrote:
| True; we use a measuring spoon anyway to scoop 1 tsp into the
| box and 1/2 tsp to spill. (Turns out you don't need anywhere
| near what the box size suggests, and that can actually cause
| the drain to get gunked up with foam.)
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| I don't know about the UK but here in Europe dishwashers don't
| use the hot tap.
| bserge wrote:
| Older ones did, same for washing machines. I guess it stuck
| in the US for whatever reason.
| duncans wrote:
| Same in the UK. Most hook up to the cold water supply only.
| balefrost wrote:
| Somewhat related: if you want to watch a 32 minute video about
| how to properly use a dishwasher, here you go:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
| uxabhishek wrote:
| This was quite long but informative. Thanks for sharing. He
| suggests not using the pods and using dishwashing powder in
| both the pre-rinse and regular dispensers. No rinsing with
| hands needed before loading even with weeks old, dry caked
| dishes.
| jitl wrote:
| This video changed my life, and my parents lives. They always
| struggled with under-cleaning and pre-washed everything. Once
| they started using a little bit of detergent in the pre-wash,
| everything comes out clean with just the suggested scape off of
| solids. Pre-wash detergent is critical!
| aynyc wrote:
| Wait, wtf is a pre-wash detergent? And why I have never heard
| of it?
| whoisburbansky wrote:
| It's no different from normal wash detergent, it's just
| normal dishwasher detergent put into the pre-wash slot of
| your washer. The video goes into more detail, but it
| basically ensures that the first rinse cycle that the
| washer does still has soapy water.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Or given that it is just dumped out of that slot
| (assuming you have one) when you shut the door, I'd say
| you could just toss a couple of spoonfuls of detergent
| into the bottom of the washer.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I just recommend being a spilly pourer of detergent.
|
| Save time and get better results through haste and
| sloppiness.
| delecti wrote:
| He actually mentions that in the video as well.
| Forge36 wrote:
| It's normal detergent, placed in a space where the pre-wash
| water cycle can use it.
| aynyc wrote:
| Regular Dawn detergent or "dishwasher" detergent?
| jffry wrote:
| Dishwasher detergent only (i.e., stuff specifically
| marketed as for going into dishwashing machines)
|
| Absolutely don't put dish soap like Dawn into your
| dishwasher - it will foam up, shoot out of the
| dishwasher, and absolutely wreck your dishwasher and
| surrounding kitchen with foam.
|
| If you're curious what this mishap would look like, check
| out this image search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=put+dish
| +soap+in+dishwasher&t=ffab...
| svachalek wrote:
| Normal _dishwasher_ detergent. Never put dish soap like
| Dawn in a dishwasher, I 've seen at least 3 kitchens
| flooded as a result of people not knowing this.
| Retric wrote:
| It does works in a pinch, just use about 3-5% as much as
| normal and skip the drying phase to rerun.
|
| A related issue is people just use way to much detergents
| in general, presumably because commercials show people
| using excessive quantities. _Plop Plop Fiz Fiz_ for
| example just about doubled Alka-Seltzer's sales.
| jrootabega wrote:
| I've experimented with some of this advice in my dishwasher,
| with mixed results. Some of the pod manufacturers explicitly
| state that the pods are designed to compensate for the lack of
| a pre-wash, so this isn't a case of Out-of-touch Dumb Companies
| vs Smart Customer. Whether you believe the makers is another
| thing, but I think the video is oversimplifying for the sake of
| making viewers feel smart and achieving factoid popularity.
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| Pods are a scam. They measure out ordinary crappy dishwashing
| detergent and package it up in a 'pod' then mark the price up
| 10x. In the US soap seems to exist in a grey area where
| manufacturers can make unsubstantiated claims about
| performance based on 'testing' that they supposedly do
| internally. The new Dawn dishwashing liquids make claims
| about having exponentially more cleaning power and yet
| cleaning anything requires exactly the same amount of soap as
| it did with the old Dawn.
| [deleted]
| stronglikedan wrote:
| Ever since I watched that a few months back, I run the tap go
| get the hot water closer to the washer for the first cycle (as
| recommended in the vid), and I do notice a difference. So much
| so, that I've completely eschewed the pre-rinse (also
| recommended in the vid).
| iainmerrick wrote:
| This must be a country-specific thing. Almost all dishwashers
| in Europe use a cold water feed only, so running the hot tap
| won't make any difference.
|
| (Source: bought a new one a couple of years ago! I assumed a
| hot water feed would be more efficient, but very few models
| had it and they weren't necessarily cheaper to run. Thinking
| about it, an electric heater inside the washer that heats
| exactly the amount needed is going to be way more efficient
| than getting hot water at a random temperature from a gas
| combi boiler.)
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| > Almost all dishwashers in Europe use a cold water feed
| only, so running the hot tap won't make any difference.
|
| Ya, I think the same is true in America. Most residential
| hot water tanks do not produce potable water. So, it
| wouldn't make sense to rinse your clean dishes with water
| that may contain bacteria and spores. Of course, you don't
| want to rinse hot glass with cold water either (potential
| breakage), so now you have to heat the water. So, you may
| as well just have cold water as the only source and heat
| it.
|
| It's the same reason coffee machines tell you to fill them
| with cold water -- it has nothing to do with the
| temperature of the water, it's all about the potability of
| the water.
| spookthesunset wrote:
| > Most residential hot water tanks do not produce potable
| water.
|
| As a consumer of residential hot water tanks for 40+
| years, this is news to me. How is the water in a
| residential hot water tank not potable?
| baq wrote:
| Mine says using hot water will work but only do it if you
| have a renewable source of heat. Otherwise, it's more
| efficient to just heat up those few liters.
| bserge wrote:
| Beware, some dishwashers will throw an error or work
| improperly if the temperature doesn't match what it should be
| at certain points in the cycle. Same for some washing
| machines.
| 542354234235 wrote:
| I take the opportunity to wash all the hand wash items with
| the water I am running to get to the hot water for the
| dishwasher. The water is nice and hot for the final rinse of
| the hand wash things, and to then start the dishwasher.
| fbrchps wrote:
| One of my favorite parts of that video is how he goes into how
| stupid an idea those "Tide Pods but for dishwashers" are. They
| don't do nearly as good of a job cleaning in my experience, and
| missing the whole pre-rinse is likely a large part of why.
|
| Now, getting family/friends to stop using them has proven to be
| a challenge, because Alec can have quite the dry video format
| for those who are being told to "stop doing a thing you deem
| convenient, and watch this 32 minute video to see why".
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Alec is a master at turning a three sentence concept into a
| 6,000 word exposition. I'm glad he's found success and seems
| to be enjoying Youtube, but I feel he missed his calling in
| academia.
|
| Obligatory Calvin and Hobbes:
|
| https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/02/11
|
| > _Want to see my book report? "The Dynamics of Interbeing
| and Monological Imperatives in Dick and Jane: A Study in
| Psychic Transrelational Gender Modes." Academia, here I
| come!_
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| I don't follow this advice at all and my dishes always come out
| perfectly clean. So it seems totally arbitrary to me. Or at
| least depends on which dishwasher you have.
| romanhn wrote:
| Watched the whole thing, got really excited (as I always pre-
| rinse) and then discovered that my dishwasher doesn't have a
| pre-wash basin. More research is needed, I suppose, to convince
| me to move away from rinsing (which I would love, but have not
| been impressed with unrinsed results thus far).
|
| UPDATE: So I just went and read through my dishwasher's manual.
| Turns out there is a place to dump some detergent for pre-wash
| after all! Instead of living next to the main basin, it's built
| into the exterior of the dispenser latch itself. Really, just a
| little concave area that allows detergent to just fall out when
| you close the door and get used in the first cycle. Will be
| experimenting with this!
| DeRock wrote:
| Mine doesn't have a pre-wash basin either, so I just pour
| some directly in the dish compartment before closing/running.
| I feel its equivalent and it seems to work great.
| morsch wrote:
| It's strictly equivalent, dishwashers with a separate
| receptacle just dump it in the compartment, too.
| sparker72678 wrote:
| My dishwasher doesn't have a pre-rinse basin, either.
|
| But, I've found that for heavily soiled loads, if I throw an
| extra pod into the bottom of the dishwasher before I run it,
| that helps. (The extra pod will be dissolved in the first
| rinse, giving a boost.)
| leviathant wrote:
| >So I just went and read through my dishwasher's manual.
|
| I had gone through life either using dishwashers that came
| with my apartment/house, or installing used dishwashers,
| because I was otherwise punching above my weight.
|
| My current home is the first place I've owned where I've
| bought all new appliances - which all came with manuals,
| which all have really good instructions for using the devices
| the way the product engineers intended them, and I can't
| believe it took me so long to come around to rtfm for day-to-
| day stuff. I'd basically leaned on techniques I learned as a
| kid in the 80s, for decades, even as technology changed. I
| know not to do this at work, but it was funny realizing what
| an oversight I'd made in my home life.
| romanhn wrote:
| It is funny. I keep all manuals around, just in case, on
| rare occasions throwing away the ones for products that I
| no longer have. Yet not once have I actually gone back to a
| physical manual, finding it easier to grab one online (as I
| did in the dishwasher base as well).
| teawrecks wrote:
| Was going to say, if there's not a pre-rinse basin, just
| squirt a bit anywhere. As you can see from the one you found,
| it just immediately falls out anyway.
| dmhmr wrote:
| I knew what this video was before I clicked. I love his content
| that gets into this type of focus. His Coleman Lantern videos
| were great too.
| teh_klev wrote:
| Alec is a truly amazing obsessed individual, I love his videos.
| His recent adventures into how oil fueled lamps is tremendous,
| no detail left behind.
| quietbritishjim wrote:
| Beware that his advice about extra detergent for the prerinse
| stage doesn't apply to all dishwashers: some let a little water
| rinse through the detergent compartment during that part of the
| cycle, so some is released even if you're using a tablet. Once
| they get to the main part of the programme, the compartment
| flips open to let the tablet fall out so it can finish
| dissolving completely. This totally solves the problem
| described in the video. Unlike the type he describes, these
| dishwashers don't even have a separate place for prewash
| detergent (because it would be redundant).
|
| I'm in the UK, and all dishwashers I've seen work this way,
| even really cheap ones. So it's probably a country thing (most
| likely Europe vs US).
| loser777 wrote:
| Note that a further complication is that some don't have a
| compartment but literally an indent on the tablet compartment
| where you're supposed to pour some prewash/detergent and it
| just gets incoporated into the mixture as it runs down. I
| suspect you can "boost" any dishwasher's prewash detergent
| amount by adding a bit on the door/in the bottom.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| I'm in the US using a GE dishwasher. It is similar to the
| ones in UK - no pre-wash compartment.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Should be straightforward to figure out which kind your unit
| is (look and see if it is sealed off or not).
| joegahona wrote:
| I love this video. The one part that didn't seem to work for me
| is the "don't pre-rinse your dishes" part -- perhaps my
| dishwasher's fault, but I was really disappointed when, after
| several washes and varying degrees of gook on plates and bowls,
| stuff was still coming out dirty. I quick pre-rinse works best
| for me and my dishwasher, combined with the other tips in his
| video.
| mynegation wrote:
| That runs contrary to my experience as well. Fats, syrups,
| and greens - you don't necessarily have to rinse and scrub
| but try to leave some starchy sticky rice or eggs to dry on
| the plate and that stuff may not come off, it will be dried
| and cemented even further.
| wpearse wrote:
| Yeah. We stopped giving the dirty dishes a quick rinse and
| scrub after watching that video and all that happened is the
| dishdrawer drain blocked and the kitchen flooded. (First time
| ever.)
|
| We're back to giving the dishes a quick rinse and scrub
| before they go in the dishwasher.
| InvertedRhodium wrote:
| While you don't need to pre rinse the dishes, you should at
| least probably scrape any leftover food off of them. I
| don't think I've ever had a load of dishes with enough
| physical matter on them to actually block a drain, and I've
| never pre rinsed.
| IronWolve wrote:
| I stopped using pods/packs/powerballs types and pre-scrubbing
| after this video. I thought cheaper liquids just didn't work,
| because I wasn't filling the pre-wash. I tried cheaper store
| brand liquid detergent with pre-wash, and with pre-wash gels
| work great.
|
| Right now, I'm using Cascade Gel, really happy for the price
| and amount. 6 bux. It's the same price as generics if you don't
| buy it on amazon.
|
| TIL, use the pre-fill
| beenBoutIT wrote:
| With dishwashing detergent liquids are superior. Liquid
| detergent often contains varying amounts of KOH which is
| about as good as it gets in terms of cleaning power that
| won't also destroy dishes(NaOH). They can't put KOH in dry
| detergent so it's made with less effective chemicals that are
| better at staying in a powdered form without clumping.
| joezydeco wrote:
| _" The food filter is there for a reason, he adds - simply remove
| and clean it once a month"_
|
| If you have a Bosch, I'd recommend doing it every third or fourth
| cycle. There's no food grinder/impeller in these machines and the
| fine filter gathers material way faster than what you're probably
| used to.
|
| Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2b9QeiYRo&t=80s
|
| The idea of leaving half-washed food waste in the machine and
| recirculated for a whole month also doesn't appeal to me. But
| perhaps that's just me.
| dekhn wrote:
| I've had a series of bosches and cleaning the bottom filter is
| a very common operation - anything large that is left on a
| plate and doesn't dissolve (like a raisin) gets stuck below the
| filter (dunno how it gets through the filter but it does) and
| eventually that area clogs.
| SamuelAdams wrote:
| From the video:
|
| > To clean the food catcher, grab your partner's toothbrush and
| brush it into the rubbish bin.
|
| I love British humor.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| I find it strange that Bosch doesn't put grinders in their
| dishwashers, they certainly do have a good reputation. Why
| don't they?
|
| I happen to be looking for a dishwasher now. Mine is having
| problems after 8 years (it's from IKEA, probably a rebranded
| Whirlpool). It has a grinder, but it the upper deck is no
| longer getting clean because the upper spinnning thing is no
| longer spinning and flinging water, I think. Also the plastic
| bits and gasket are starting to deteriorate.
|
| Any recs for a good dishwasher? I'm looking for something that
| will last 10+ years.
| steffan wrote:
| Asko, without question. I've had three (in three different
| houses) and they've always been fantastic. Current one is
| rebadged as a Viking. I would definitely buy another one.
| First one I actually removed and reinstalled in another
| house. That one lasted over 10 years and is probably still
| running.
| elric wrote:
| They're illegal where I live (Belgium). So I suspect they're
| at the very least not a universal thing.
| seszett wrote:
| Reading the comments here, I think we generally use
| dishwashers quite differently in Europe than they do in the
| US.
|
| I'm French, in Belgium, with an Italian dishwater that
| doesn't have a grinder (didn't even know that this existed)
| and I simply don't leave anything that could have to be
| ground on my dishes.
|
| I do have to clean the filter once in a while, but I just
| don't leave on my dishes anything that could be scrapped
| beforehand. I don't prewash them or do anything special,
| but I don't leave solid waste on my dishes either.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| I think the grinder is a matter of convenience. It means
| there is no filter to change, ever. I've never actually
| had a dishwasher with a filter. I don't even know where
| it is located!
|
| If the filter were very easy to
| reach/remove/clean/replace, I would consider the benefits
| of a dishwasher without a grinder.
| joezydeco wrote:
| _Why don 't they?_
|
| Energy consumption. No grinder means the whole system can be
| driven by the pump motor alone which uses less power. Simpler
| (cheaper) construction as well.
|
| _the upper spinning thing is no longer spinning_
|
| The sprayer arms aren't driven by motors, they're driven by
| the force of the water coming out. So that means you probably
| have food particles stuck in the ports where water comes out.
| I'd remove the arm and clean it by hand. Use a toothpick to
| open up the ports.
| michael1999 wrote:
| Parts for the whirlpool are easy to find if you use the model
| number on the door. Replacing the upper arm is a 20 minute
| job, and lots of the part sites have instructional videos
| now. I'm 21 years into a crappy GE.
| bserge wrote:
| Beko, Indesit, Hotpoint, even Whirlpoop. Samsung and LG are
| surprisingly good until the electronics fail (very hard to
| find, expensive new). Miele are great but again, problems
| with part availability. Though they rarely break.
|
| Bosch/Siemens dishwashers are frankly, garbage.
|
| Dumbass metal/plastic construction (the plastic _will_ crack
| and leak at the back), smartass inlet sensor that will fail,
| board at the bottom that will be taken out when it floods,
| overly sensitive drain and turbidity sensors, and the damn
| heater is a piece of shit.
|
| They thought they were so smart using a flat wire heater (as
| found in many bottom heating kettles) but it fails very, very
| often and is expensive as hell even second hand if you can
| find one.
|
| This basic construction hasn't changed for over a decade now,
| just like with most appliances.
|
| Strange, since their washing machines are great and dryers
| are OK.
|
| I personally like Beko, which many shit on - no frills, no
| bullshit dishwashers using easily available parts (shared
| with other brands), really easy to fix.
|
| They work as well as any other brand, the water pressure is
| one of the most important things and theirs is always good.
|
| Preferably the higher end models with built in fans, screen,
| they're better built than the cheap models.
|
| Source: worked on thousands of them.
| dotancohen wrote:
| Just remove the upper propeller and clean the friction
| surface with a sponge. It probably has gunk or calcium or
| detergent built up on it.
|
| While you're at it, clean the water connection mating surface
| between the upper drawer and the back of the dishwasher. If
| there's gunk there water will squirt out and the propeller
| will have less water pressure.
|
| A gopro is a great tool for checking that both propellers are
| spinning properly.
| throwaway09223 wrote:
| > Why don't they?
|
| Another guess might be noise. Grinders are noisy and Bosch
| dishwashers are dead silent.
|
| I have a Benchmark series Bosch and it cleans dishes better
| than any I've ever had. I think a major factor is the built-
| in water softener. I have hard water, and soft water is key
| for allowing detergents to properly work.
| [deleted]
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > The idea of leaving half-washed food waste in the machine and
| recirculated for a whole month also doesn't appeal to me. But
| perhaps that's just me.
|
| Unless there are actual solids (=bones, remains of stickers on
| glasses that contain plastics) in there, the combination of
| heat and extreme alkality of the washing water will dissolve
| just about anything over time so that it passes through the
| filter and gets pumped out.
| joezydeco wrote:
| The common service call for Bosch dishwashers is "will not
| drain", and the common fix is to pull out the completely
| clogged filter and clean it as seen in the video above. The
| evidence doesn't support the idea that the material
| eventually dissolves out of the filter.
|
| Secondly, the final rinse water is filled into the tub and
| recirculated over the same filter. It's not directly sprayed
| from the water supply over the dishes and into the drain.
| dekhn wrote:
| The difference between theory and practice in Bosch machines
| is very large. They don't really work that way, in my
| experience. Instead, the whole filter complex ends up with a
| huge gooey mess that clogs the whole filter.
| jfk13 wrote:
| As a (satisfied) Bosch dishwasher owner, I don't recognise
| this description. Offhand I can't even remember when I last
| cleaned the filter. Meanwhile, it just keeps working.
| [deleted]
| clipradiowallet wrote:
| Just a note for people who do NOT have sewage service(ie you have
| a septic tank). You should be rinsing ALL your dishes before
| using the dishwasher, capturing the solids in a strainer, and
| putting them in your trash.
|
| Solid food that magically is cleaned by your dishwasher goes into
| your septic system and significantly reduces time-to-failure, or
| at the least time-till-you-have-it-pumped-to-avoid-failure.
| nathancahill wrote:
| My friends load up their dishwasher without rinsing, then call
| their pup over to clean off the food. Does an excellent job
| too.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _My friends load up their dishwasher without rinsing, then
| call their pup over to clean off the food_
|
| They must have a small dog, if it fits inside a dishwasher.
| jefftk wrote:
| Is the thin layer on plates significant, relative to the human
| waste solids already going into your septic system?
| clipradiowallet wrote:
| Without going into the icky details too much... yes it is
| relevant. Even something like grated carrots will sit in your
| septic tank for years without decaying. This is largely due
| to the temperature - it's far too cold to get the easy
| rotting and composting effect you would see if you left it
| outside in the sun. The solids you are mentioning are already
| digested, and are much easier for the bacteria in your septic
| tank to break down and reach a soluble/flowing state that can
| pass into your drainage field. Another good example that is
| REALLY common to see clogging the septic tank exit is coffee
| grounds - which would compost very quickly in the sunshine,
| but will last forever in your septic tank and contribute to a
| very thick "sludge" layer on the bottom. That layer never
| goes anywhere, and as it grows the capacity of your septic
| tank shrinks. This will go on until the sludge reaches the
| exit level and causes the septic system to fail, or until you
| have it pumped.
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| Would dumping enzymes into the tank aid "digestion" of
| solid foods?
| clipradiowallet wrote:
| Yes - but with caveats. Solids like meat scraps and fruit
| pulps(not peels!) can be liquified with septic tank
| additives. It's a good idea to use these every month(I
| set a recurring reminder on my phone). The caveat is
| substances like fruit peels, coffee grounds, oils, or the
| gristle portion of meats. These don't break down with the
| enzymes, and just float(or sink) in your septic tank
| until you have it pumped.
| comeonseriously wrote:
| > "The dishwasher is this wonderful thing but it did, in truth,
| produce a kind of idiot-worker in the kitchen because it took
| away the intuition of doing the dishes," he tells Guardian
| Australia from his home in Seattle. "I want to get my hands on
| the thing, [like] cooking is getting your hands on what you're
| doing."
|
| Don't let the dishwasher dry the dishes. Take them out and dry
| them yourself and you can make sure they're all clean.
| zaat wrote:
| > The hand washing enthusiast says the best way to know if
| something's clean is to take your time to look at it and feel
| it. You'll know immediately if something's dirty when you run
| your fingers along the surface.
|
| Sure, regardless of the dish's state before, after you run your
| fingers on it it isn't clean anymore.
| missblit wrote:
| Touching a clean dish with a clean finger won't make it
| unsanitary or gross.
| exmadscientist wrote:
| The best way to load a dishwasher is to get a Miele. (At least
| the US models, I can't speak for other countries.)
|
| For Reasons, I've dealt with six dishwashers over the last
| decade. This one actually works. Anything that goes in and isn't
| ludicrously dirty or positioned just gets clean. It's wonderful
| not caring about top rack vs bottom rack or prewash or starting
| the hot water early or....
|
| It just gets dishes clean.
| gmac wrote:
| I can also a recommend a 20-year-old Neff.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I had a Miele once but it didn't last. A Bosch was half the
| price, did as well, was silent, and lasted many years. Don't
| understand the cult of Miele considering the high price. On the
| other hand I have a Miele vacuum that is 25 years old and works
| perfectly, so maybe it was just bad luck. But Miele vacuum
| cleaners don't cost $4000.
| koolba wrote:
| Miele and Maytag are the only brands I've seen that both
| consistently work and last for many many years.
|
| Ditto for Maytag laundry machines. Those things are tanks.
| exmadscientist wrote:
| Having had the (unfortunate) opportunity to personally
| compare the Miele to the top-of-the-line-in-2014 Maytag back-
| to-back, the Miele is a different animal.
|
| Maytag does not build them like they used to.
| bserge wrote:
| Maytag is Whirlpoop now iirc
| serf wrote:
| >Maytag does not build them like they used to.
|
| that has been my experience across their entire lineup
| since the early 2000s.
|
| some of their industrial style earlier stuff is fantastic,
| it's a shame they couldn't keep up with those standards.
| missblit wrote:
| My Maytag dryer is around 37 years old (older than I am!) and
| works great.
|
| So when I read articles claiming dryers have a life of around
| a decade I can't help but laugh.
| foobarian wrote:
| I ended up getting a Miele machine because it was the only
| relatively accessible dishwasher with a water softening system.
|
| Our town water is very hard, and all my previous dishwashers
| struggled with this, delivering dishes with ugly milk white
| streaks and residue no matter what we did. Water softening
| solved all the issues (I know because even the Miele washer has
| problems without the salt needed for the water softener to
| function).
|
| That it's a very nice and well-built washer is an additional
| cherry on top.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| Almost all dishwasher detergents have some gnarly chemicals in
| them you don't want to read the sheets on.
|
| And most dishwashers I have inspected leave a bit of soap residue
| on all the dishes.
|
| You can easily see this for yourself by filling a "clean" glass
| with water and observing the soapy bubbles.
|
| If you rinse it thoroughly and try again, they will not be there.
|
| Another one of modern life's intelligence tests, if you ask me. I
| avoid them, and I rinse dishes which come out of one thoroughly
| before using them.
| nate_meurer wrote:
| What gnarly chemicals?
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| have a look for yourself
|
| https://www.ewg.org/guides/cleaners/1604-CascadeDishwasherDe.
| ..
|
| a small portion you eat and drink, most of it ends up harming
| animals downstream.
|
| by buying it, you also support its harmful production
| process.
| nate_meurer wrote:
| I appreciate people like you who care about the effects of
| the products we buy on ourselves and the environment. I do
| too. But while the EWG does some OK work, they also do a
| lot of fearmongering, and you can plainly see it in this
| link. Look at the three big scary red "F" items.
|
| The first scary red "F" is sodium hypochlorite. This is
| ordinary bleach. EWG cites two reasons for the big scary
| "F". The first is aquatic toxicity. This is a badly
| misplaced fear. Consider the fact that chlorine is the most
| widely used disinfectant in municipal water systems, in the
| form of hypochlorite and chloramine. Chlorine is dumped by
| the ton into the water that comes out of your taps and goes
| down your drains. The extra chlorine from dish detergents
| is insignificant compared to this and other sources such as
| laundry bleach.
|
| Also under the chlorine entry, EWG lists a few organic
| chlorine compounds. This is very misleading. Detergents
| don't contain any of these chemicals. Rather, they can
| _possibly_ be generated when free chlorine is added to
| water containing a lot of organics. Many organohalogens are
| indeed toxic, but by far most of them that you 'll
| encounter are generated by municipal water treatment
| systems. You drink and bathe in water that contains random
| organohalogens every day, by virtue of the chlorine used in
| municipal treatment. The small extra quantities generated
| in your dishwasher aren't a threat to you unless you make
| it a habit to drink the exhaust water.
|
| The second scary red "F" on their list is zinc carbonate.
| This is absurd. They say it's primarily because of its
| potential effects on aquatic life, which I suppose might be
| a consideration if someone tries to use dishwasher
| detergent to clean a fish tank. The second reason is
| "general systemic/organ effects". This is the _really_
| absurd part. Zinc is an essential mineral in the human diet
| in large quantities. In very high doses over time, excess
| zinc can cause problems, but such large doses have nothing
| to do with dishwasher detergent residues. You 'd have to
| actually eat large quantities of detergent daily for a long
| period of time, and even that would be unlikely to cause
| zinc overdose because the carbonate form has low
| bioavailability.
|
| The third scary red "F" is "colors". They don't say what
| the colors are, or why they would be more of a concern than
| in any other cosmetic or cleaning product.
|
| The fourth scary red "F" is "stabilizer". They don't say
| what the chemical is, so there's no way to know whether
| it's any less bullshit than the first three, or even if it
| exists in the product.
|
| The scary orange "D" items continue the absurdity:
|
| - Nitric acid: I think EWG is confused here. Nitric acid
| would be used only in minute quantities to adjust pH.
| Dishwasher detergents are very alkaline, so it's not
| possible for nitric acid to remain in a liquid product.
|
| - Fragrance: Welcome to life. Everything is scented. I hate
| it, but putting a scary orange "D" next to it should make
| you roll your eyes in light of the other fragrances that
| saturate thousands of other products that don't get rinsed
| away, and thus stay in the air around you.
|
| - Polyacrylates: you know where else you'll find
| polyacrylates? Fucking everywhere. Nearly every liquid
| cosmetic product you'll find uses polyacrylates. Shampoos,
| hand soap, dish soap, etc. All baby diapers are now filled
| with polyacrylates. They're added to potting soil to
| increase moisture retention. Don't eat too much of the
| solid form because it can expand in your stomach and cause
| bloating and possibly blockage, but tiny amounts of them
| are not the least bit threatening in your dishwasher.
|
| In summary, don't blindly trust the EWG. None of these
| ingredients is the least bit dangerous _even if_ they
| remained in significant quantities on your dishes, which
| they don 't.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| >- Fragrance: Welcome to life. Everything is scented. I
| hate it, but putting a scary orange "D" next to it should
| make you roll your eyes in light of the other fragrances
| that saturate thousands of other products that don't get
| rinsed away, and thus stay in the air around you.
|
| No, it's not everything, and it's not everywhere. There
| are many spaces which are free of fragrance for the most
| part.
|
| It really does INCREASE QUALITY OF LIFE for many people,
| who are sometimes NOT EVEN AWARE of the effects this
| synthetic crap has on their physical well-being.
|
| And all it takes is JUST A LITTLE BIT OF VIGILANCE on the
| space administrator's part in not accepting and not
| allowing it into the space.
|
| Just like we are creating safe spaces which are not
| tolerant of bullying, bigotry, harrasment, etc., many are
| also creating safe spaces in terms of hazardous
| chemicals.
|
| You are ignoring a lot of progress in this area when you
| paint things as hopeless or good enough.
|
| And EWG is one of the most competent, clear, and level-
| headed organizations working in this space. They provide
| scientifically supported, solid, and well-researched
| information in an easy to understand format.
|
| I don't think you are qualified to criticize them given
| what you wrote above.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| with chlorine, you are ignoring the production process.
|
| with the others your argument seems to be, "it is status
| quo, so it is ok."
|
| but it is not. i have been to entire towns which prohibit
| fragrance, including library, town hall, and police
| station.
|
| this idea is still not mainstream-peak, but it is making
| the rounds.
|
| i believe it is better to "err" on the side of caution
| when it comes to substances "potentially considered
| harmful" even by those who produce and approve it.
| nate_meurer wrote:
| Yeah, I really wish manufacturers would knock it off with
| the fragrances. I hate how smelly everything is, and I
| think some of it gives me headaches. Laundry detergent is
| the worst; it contaminates everything with cheap perfume.
| I use non-fragranced stuff whenever I can.
|
| > _with chlorine, you are ignoring the production
| process._
|
| I think you're confusing the production of hypochlorite,
| which is among the cleanest and most benign of all
| industrial processes, with that of chlorinated materials
| like PVC, which is fed with and leaves behind a lot of
| super nasty shit. Look up the Hooker process, which is
| how _all_ hypochlorite is currently made. The only
| byproduct is sodium chloride (common salt), which is also
| the degradation endpoint of hypochlorite in the
| environment. I think you 'll be pleasantly surprised at
| how clean and sustainable this particular corner of
| industry is.
|
| Did you know that chlorine bleach (such as Clorox) has a
| shelf life for this reason? It's because hypochlorite is
| unstable, and eventually that bottle of Clorox will
| become a bottle of plain salt water.
|
| > _with the others your argument seems to be, "it is
| status quo, so it is ok."_
|
| Not at all. What I'm saying is that dishwasher detergent
| is one of the cleanest, most harmless (to us and the
| environment) cleaning products we use. It's actually kind
| of a miraculous substance; it allows a simple machine to
| perform the hardest household cleaning job reliably and
| quickly using very little water or energy. It manages to
| this with no surfactants (such as phosphates, which
| actually are environmentally damaging) and no volatile
| grease cutters. The grease is removed only with alkaline
| minerals, and protein deposits are removed enzymatically.
|
| By drumming up a bunch of implausible and in some cases
| completely fictitious hazards, the EWG is doing a
| disservice to one of the most environmentally responsible
| cleaning products in use. For some reason the zinc thing
| especially pisses me off. That's so stupid. Pretending
| that zinc, a mineral that is ubiquitous in food and is
| essential to human health, is somehow a hazard in
| dishwasher detergent which is rinsed off anyway... this
| is basically a lie, and that alone should make you very
| skeptical of anything else they say.
|
| Anyways, again, I appreciate the fact that you care about
| this stuff. I imagine you and I would mostly agree about
| environmental topics in particular.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I choose to take to the overly cautious spectrum, because
| this is my body and the body of people close to me at
| stake, and I'd rather avoid unnecessary damage to them.
|
| You seem to take to the other end of the spectrum, the
| optimistic, hopeful, and apologetic side... Very well, it
| probably is comforting, and support you in finding your
| own path through this mess.
| lukateake wrote:
| PRO-TIP: when unloading the dishwasher start from the bottom and
| work your way up. Doing so prevents an accidental, upside-down
| cup or bowl from spilling water on your clean dishes beneath.
| codezero wrote:
| > The food filter is there for a reason, he adds - simply remove
| and clean it once a month.
|
| Uhhh, I am not the only person who doesn't clean that, or didn't
| know there was one?
|
| Luckily a do a bit of pre-wash so there shouldn't really be food
| debris to capture, but now I'm dreading checking the thing after
| ten years lol. I wonder if my apartment's maintenance people
| check it when they change my air filters and carbon monoxide
| detectors and I didn't notice.
|
| I'm dreading finding out.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Not all dishwashers have a food filter. Many will simply grind
| up the food stuffs much like a garbage disposal does.
| codezero wrote:
| Time to check mine, I suspect it has such a feature since it
| hasn't broken in ten years without removing debris :)
| mr337 wrote:
| So one thing that really surprised me is the little pocket on the
| soap tray. I started adding some liquid soap there as part of the
| loading and saw a big improvement on cleaning result.
|
| The idea is during the first pre cleaning cycle the soap will
| start working so you add the detergent on dish time.
|
| https://youtu.be/_rBO8neWw04
| sideshowb wrote:
| Related: the 'extreme dishwasher loading' facebook group
|
| I learned there you can run your fridge shelves through to get
| them nice and clean.
|
| Also, engine parts :)
| culopatin wrote:
| I don't know if I want my dishwasher coated with automotive
| chemicals. But I've thought about having a second one in the
| garage for parts cleaning before sand blasting
| sokoloff wrote:
| My tip: use the soap dispenser to tell you if the dishwasher is
| clean or not.
|
| After _unloading_ , put a new tablet in and close the dispenser.
|
| Voila, closed dispenser == dirty dishes (or your dishwasher is
| broken :) )
| capableweb wrote:
| I might be slightly old/senile/dumb but what problem does this
| solve? If the dishwasher contains dirty dishes, it's dirty and
| if not, it's not. Why would you need another signal to tell if
| it's dirty or not?
|
| Or I grandly miss the point here, sorry if so.
| ryandvm wrote:
| Indeed. If you can't tell if the dishes are clean or dirty,
| they are clean ipso facto.
| sokoloff wrote:
| It is not always obvious whether the dishes are dirty,
| especially if you are in a household that does some amount of
| rinsing of dishes (or if you had a meal that didn't have a
| lot of color to it).
| mikestew wrote:
| _Does_ it contain dirty dishes, or did the spouse run the
| dishwasher while you weren 't paying attention? Now you're
| stacking dirty dishes in with the clean (sure, the dishwasher
| was full, but you found a spot). Or your one sample dish was
| rinsed, and looks clean, so you start stacking dirty dishes
| in the cupboard...
|
| At our house, it's easier to just use a little magnet with
| clean/dirty on it to track dishwasher state. Or one can use
| the soap door suggestion above.
| capableweb wrote:
| It might be that my household eat food on plates very
| differently, but it's obvious if it's dirty or clean dishes
| in the dishwasher, as long as you open the door and look
| in.
|
| But I guess as the other comment mentioned, if you pre-wash
| the dishes before putting them into the dishwasher (not
| sure why you would, but let's run with it), then I can kind
| of see how it can be confusing.
| mikestew wrote:
| _but it 's obvious if it's dirty or clean dishes in the
| dishwasher, as long as you open the door and look in._
|
| Okay, let's go with that: why open the door when a $0.50
| magnet can be glanced at, along with saving (what is
| probably a trivial amount of) wear-and-tear on the door
| mechanism? It's a dishwasher, not a box full of
| Schrodinger felines: we're allowed to cheat and put the
| current state on the outside of the box.
| sokoloff wrote:
| How is the indicated state maintained accurately? My
| experience is that clean-dirty magnets are quite prone to
| displaying a stale state frequently enough to not be
| reliable (which led directly to the suggestion).
| mikestew wrote:
| Having a household of nothing but adults probably helps
| immensely. But the procedure is: flip the magnet when
| starting the dishwasher. Flip it back when the dishwasher
| is emptied. However, I can see how young kids in the
| house, or just plain lazy roommates, could make this less
| optimal.
| spindo wrote:
| Off-topic. I moved into a place 10 years ago, and haven't used
| the dishwasher even once. I now want to use it. Any tips on how
| to prepare it given that lots of "stuff" is probably backed up in
| its plumbing?
| tmountain wrote:
| Often time they share an outflow with the kitchen sink, so the
| plumbing may not be as backed up as you imagine provided that
| you use the sink regularly. That said, proceed with caution.
| n8cpdx wrote:
| Clean out the filter(s) and consider running a clean cycle. I
| bought a heavily used portable unit a few years ago and lemi-
| shine did a great job. I've had good results with affresh in
| other appliances. I really don't think brand matters too much,
| the cleaning solution is pretty basic.
|
| Usually they drain into the garbage disposal if preinstalled,
| so if your sink works the dishwasher is probably fine.
| jms703 wrote:
| Run an empty load and add a cup of white vinegar.
| test001only wrote:
| I use stainless steel for a lot of my cooking and grew up in a
| household without dishwasher. When I got my hand on a dishwasher
| as an adult and tried out washing the stainless steel utensils in
| it, I saw that the steel utensils had a coloured pattern left in
| it - it is similar to the pattern seen when petrol mixes with
| rain water on the roads. I am not sure if that is safe. Anybody
| know why this occurs?
| sokoloff wrote:
| I hand wash our stainless pots and get (what I think is) the
| same. I think it's a very thin film of something (not likely
| soap as I can get it without soap).
|
| I use white vinegar to dissolve it about once a month (making
| me think it's basic, possibly calcium carbonate). Pour in a cup
| or so of white vinegar and set the pan to heat. When it's hot
| but before it boils, swish it around and then pour it into the
| next pan. Rinse the first pan in plain water while the vinegar
| sits in the second. When the first pan is rinsed, pour the
| vinegar into the third, etc.
|
| Our stainless pans never see the inside of the dishwasher and
| still get this.
| exmadscientist wrote:
| Do you have hard water? That might do it.
|
| Also, presumably you're fine with vinegar, but for anyone
| else who prefers less fragrant cleaners, citric acid (usually
| available as a powder) can almost always be substituted for
| vinegar with comparable to better results.
| refurb wrote:
| It's a very fine layer of surface oxidation. Same reason you
| can get different colors on aluminum depending on how thick the
| oxide layer is.
|
| Stainless steel is corrosion resistant, not corrosion proof.
| Dishwashers are actually pretty harsh with high temperatures
| and high pH detergents.
|
| You can get the same effect by putting a stainless steel spoon
| in a pot of boiling water.
| sumtechguy wrote:
| On top of that some detergents will leave a bit behind (for
| various reasons). All of the washers I had, have an extra
| 'jet dry' compartment. It adds a drop in for the last rinse
| cycle. Seems to bind to the stuff and clear it up by letting
| it wash away. So if you are getting spotty glasses after
| cleaning look into that.
| eecc wrote:
| I need to get the food encrusting off the cutlery or I'll get
| scorched remains of them when the washing is over.
|
| But perhaps I'll stop wiping the plates and leave more of that
| grime for the sensors
| eschneider wrote:
| Pro-tip: While it's fun and awesome to optimize these little
| household tasks for maximum efficiency, it's not cool to
| criticize how your SO/housemates/whomever does it. This is not
| the hill to kill your relationships on.
| [deleted]
| throwaway20371 wrote:
| Is literally nobody gonna talk about regularly descaling the
| washer for hard water??? Do you _want_ calcium build-up on your
| dishes and a half broken machine?
| blunte wrote:
| They say to put the dirtier things at the bottom since that's
| where the strong jets of water come from. Then they say to put
| cutlery face down so it gets cleaner.
|
| What about the other side of the cutlery? Was only one side
| dirty?
|
| And then, the no-prewash directive... If you put dishes with
| stuck-on food into the dishwasher, there's some chance that the
| stuck-on food will not come off. Then that food gets baked on
| during the drying cycle. It may be sanitary, but it's is not
| something I want.
|
| Until someone can draw the line between "some bacteria is good
| for you and makes you stronger" and "oh this will cause you grief
| or death", I still err on the side over serious pre-cleaning and
| then hot dishwashing.
| choward wrote:
| I only run my dishwasher once or twice a week. I don't want
| food stuck to my dishes for that long. I always rinse/prewash.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| > What about the other side of the cutlery? Was only one side
| dirty?
|
| I read this as the handle should be at the top and the points
| ("face"?) should be at the bottom (assuming vertical cutlery
| bins). I know some people who swear the handles should be on
| the bottom and the points should be on top.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| I pre-clean too. But, the thing that really kills the bacteria
| is not the hot water (it's not hot enough), it's the bleach in
| the dishwasher detergent (bleach is a chemical sterilizer).
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Also the alkalinity of the detergent. Much as with soap, that
| disrupts lipid membranes in bacteria and viruses.
|
| The "20 second" rule for handwashing is mostly about how long
| germs need to be in contact with soap before they're mostly
| dead. (Mostly dead isn't all dead </MiracleMax>) You may
| still have dirt/soil on your hands after 20s, but it's pretty
| much sterilised.
| duxup wrote:
| My wife sweats how things get loaded in the dishwasher.
|
| My opinion is that provided stuff comes out clean, the proper way
| to load the dishwasher is up to the person who took the time to
| do it for everyone in the house.
|
| Is it done? Then it was done properly.
| _carbyau_ wrote:
| I dislike double handling.
|
| If the dishwasher is awaiting dirty things, then whoever carts
| their own dishes into the kitchen can stick it straight in
| rather than place it on a bench for anyone else.
|
| If the dishwasher is full of clean things. Then empty it, and
| put your dirty thing in.
|
| Of course, it is a fantasy to ensure others in my household see
| things the same way.
| notyourwork wrote:
| My only disagreement with this is that there are some things
| that result in a more efficient unload. For example, as you put
| utensils in, grouping like utensils will result in a more
| efficient unloading. It's sort of like insertion sort, you
| start wit an empty set, insert a fork in one area, next you
| insert a spoon where spoons go, etc. It is marginally more
| effort than placing them in.
|
| I do agree though if you load you get to load however you see
| fit. So carry on with doing stuff!
| tzs wrote:
| On the other hand, grouping like utensils might result in
| nesting such as spoons spooning. Might that reduce the
| effectiveness of the cleaning of those utensils?
|
| Speaking of utensils in the dishwasher, I've occasionally
| stabbed myself on a steak knife when removing utensils from
| the dishwasher.
|
| That raises the question of _why_ do many steak knives have
| pointy tips?
|
| I have never had occasion to stab my steak, nor have I ever
| noticed anyone else doing so with their steak. If I need to
| stab a piece of steak for some reason a fork will handle that
| just fine.
| tjr wrote:
| I intentionally alternate spoons with forks to ensure that
| adjacent spoons don't prevent each other from getting
| cleaned. And I put all knives in one area by themselves; I
| still have to avoid poking myself, but keeping them
| separate makes it easier to focus on the knives all at
| once.
|
| But agreed, no idea why a kitchen steak knife would need a
| pointed tip.
| notyourwork wrote:
| I guess it depends on the dish washer, mine has individual
| slots for each utensil so this won't happen. They all get a
| margin of space between one another.
| mkj wrote:
| Lies! You should do the sorting once they're already clean,
| because they're easier to handle then. When you're loading it
| they're all dirty, put them wherever is quickest.
| colourgarden wrote:
| Miele dishwashers (maybe they exist for others brands too but
| I've only ever seen them on Miele) have a cutlery tray at the
| top of the dishwasher which allows you to lay cutlery down
| next to each other.
|
| Emptying is then simply grabbing the entire group and placing
| straight into the drawer.
|
| Example: https://www.miele.com/media/microsites/ubc/images/Ju
| bilee/13...
| morsch wrote:
| Widely available in all brands as far as I can tell. I
| don't get it all (had several chances to try it, family),
| in my experience it moves work from the unloading phase to
| the loading phase. I'd rather do it in the former. I know
| other people love it. When I was planning our kitchen, the
| lady said (jokingly) it's a religious issue.
| iainmerrick wrote:
| I have this (ours is a Bosch) and it's wonderful. Cutlery
| goes from being a jangly hassle to an absolute breeze, and
| it also means there's more space in the rest of the washer
| for everything else.
| notyourwork wrote:
| Yep, same idea as the vertical arrangement in many less
| expensive models!
| drivers99 wrote:
| Interesting idea. I intentionally do the opposite because
| spoons stick to each other.
| gattilorenz wrote:
| isn't this just a zero-sum game? The time you save by
| unloading is spent while loading it
| em-bee wrote:
| depends on how you load. during loading items more likely
| come in a random order, especially if a single meal is not
| enough to fill the machine, but you collect items
| throughout the day until the machine is full. so if you are
| handling one item at a time already, might as well use the
| opportunity to sort right there.
| harperlee wrote:
| Grouping similar things results in spoons spooning each other
| and not getting clean!
| Tagbert wrote:
| As long as the dishes come out clean, then fine. If the way the
| dishes were loaded prevented some items from getting clean,
| then we have a problem.
| Igelau wrote:
| Don't block the spinny thing. Don't leave anything where it can
| fall through onto the heating element and start burning. Make
| sure things can't flip over and fill with nasty greywater that
| sloshes onto everything else.
|
| The number of times people have done me the "favor" of loading
| my dishwasher and broken these rules has made me sweat it too.
| conductr wrote:
| Early on my wife and I had a blow out argument about the
| dishwasher. Truth is we just started living together and we had
| some little annoyances bottled up and the dishwasher is what
| broke the camels back that evening. But, we remember it as the
| dishwasher fight. And, she does all the dishes now because I'm
| standing my ground that there is nothing wrong with my method,
| it's just not hers. Happily married and have been living
| together for almost 20 years now and I haven't loaded a single
| dish in almost as long. It actually worked out brilliantly for
| me now that I think about it.
| iainmerrick wrote:
| The person who _unloads_ should decide. Nothing worse than
| unloading a dishwasher with the spoons sticking together, cups
| full of pools of water, dishes still dirty because they were
| stacked too tightly, etc etc
| duxup wrote:
| Sounds like a recipe for someone who never starts the dishes
| in the first place to complain about folks who do!!!!
|
| /s
| paulirish wrote:
| You two should go to couples therapy. No joke. The alternative:
| you let this disagreement remain and be a daily mini-stressor
| for the rest of your lives.
| emadabdulrahim wrote:
| Hmmm. That escalated quickly.
|
| Or it could be the thing they joke and laugh about how
| different they're from each other. Taking extreme absurd
| examples at each other. Maybe even recording a TikTok video.
| akjssdk wrote:
| Why is it that people are always so quick to suggest
| (couples) therapy? Is it so unlikely that two adults can work
| something out between themselves, especially if they are in a
| marriage? Being married is essentially figuring out these
| mini conflicts, so you better be good at it. That's not to
| say that counseling cannot help, but it always seems like
| such an overreaction. Also: please don't take relationship
| advice from random strangers :)
| paulirish wrote:
| Totally agree that conflict resolution is a key component
| of marriage. I suggest couples therapy as it provided me
| (and others) with a larger toolbox to address conflicts in
| general. Of course, if a couple can satisfactorily figure
| things out themselves, then no need! But that's not the
| picture that OP painted.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Because very often:
|
| 1. It's not about the disagreement. It's about what's
| behind the disagreement.
|
| 2. Many people cannot or will not discuss matters amongst
| themselves. Getting an impartial third-party engaged (and
| one who doesn't have a stake in future relationship(s) with
| the disputants) can have a hugely useful "unsticking"
| function.
|
| Mind, there are many therapists and therapy methods, not
| all work, and some practitioners are incredibly
| ineffective.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| Here, hot tap water is heated by district heating, while most
| dishwashers take cold tap water and electrically heat it.
|
| District heating is waste heat from coal plants that produce
| electricity - so, depends on how you count, it can be considered
| free from CO2 perspective. Or then as purely made by coal, so
| actually really bad. Depends.
|
| If you use electricity and the coal plant is 30% efficient, that
| means each kWh of electricity produced 2 kWh of waste heat.
|
| So the calculation might not be so simple energy wise.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| > _while most dishwashers take cold tap water and electrically
| heat it_
|
| That's surprising. Here in the US, my dishwasher is connected
| to the hot water line.
|
| Maybe it does vary from one region to another, but I can't see
| why it would make sense to connect to the cold water line.
| Typically, dishwashers are near the sink (so it's easy to
| load), so hot water should be available in most cases.
| maccard wrote:
| In my parents home, their dishwasher and washing machine is
| connected to both. In both the houses I've lived in in the
| last 10 years, all the appliances I have had have had their
| own heaters.
|
| > can't see why it would make sense to connect to the cold
| water line
|
| My hot water line might be a different temperature to what my
| dishwasher works at. If it's too high, were wasting energy by
| heating up the water too much. If it's too low, the
| dishwasher doesn't work properly. Some people don't have 100%
| hot water on demand; in the UK and Ireland, having a hot
| water tank is common (and will likely be common when
| ground/air source pumps are installed, or if electric boilers
| are used), and there's no guarantee that the tank will have
| enough wayer at the right temperature
| csydas wrote:
| My guess is spacing issues in non-US homes. When I was
| growing up in the US, running the dishwasher meant wheeling
| it over to the kitchen sink, hooking it up to the hot water
| tap, and then running it.
|
| Friends had their dishwashers built-into the kitchen
| cabinetry and had a water line directly to it.
|
| I live outside of the US now in eastern europe, and for older
| apartments, dishwashers aren't really possible unless you do
| specific renovations to run piping for it. There either just
| isn't space or isn't piping (or both) to make it work.
|
| Newer apartments it's much more common, but the dishwashers
| are about half-the size of what I grew up with in the US.
| HPsquared wrote:
| Even in a typical domestic setting where hot water is heated
| (at something like 90%+ efficiency) by natural gas, it's still
| probably better than using grid electricity.
| baq wrote:
| The problem is that it might not take hot water at all unless
| you have a water circulation pump installed and running (not
| sure how that thing is called in the states).
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| I have solar panels though and don't use all the energy they
| produce. So running the dishwasher during the day is free.
| BBC-vs-neolibs wrote:
| If your pipes are not insulated, the dishwasher might get only
| room temperature water anyway.
|
| Also, district heating - it depends. In the winter, they run
| this district heating not only for electricity, but ramp it up
| for more heat production, in the winter.
| nemo44x wrote:
| What is with that guy in the article desperately trying to
| advocate for hand washing dishes? He _really_ tries to
| rationalize the joy of hand washing to the point I feel really
| happy for him. He found joy in a mundane, mildly awful task but
| it also feels darker for a reason I can't quite pinpoint. Like an
| OCD thing?
| Veen wrote:
| I don't know, I quite enjoy washing dishes by hand. As someone
| who spends most of the day typing in front of a screen, it's
| nice to do a fairly mindless manual task and let my thoughts
| wander.
| yxwvut wrote:
| I think the thinly-vailed condescension over people who use a
| dishwasher is what rubs me the wrong way, as though using a
| more energy and time-efficient method to avoid a monotonous
| unnecessary task is a vice, or that hand-washing dishes is
| somehow promoting social harmony (in a way that isn't
| substitutable with a less pointless activity).
| nixpulvis wrote:
| I moved the utensil bins from the front to the right side of our
| dishwasher (it fits nicely in our new machine), but sadly my
| roommate didn't like it there :(
| xyzzy21 wrote:
| Pre-rinse is useful, and particularly for older dish washers,
| while the pre-rinse mode on dish washers themselves is EXTREMELY
| useful - probably necessary to be actually water and energy
| efficient while still cleaning. Pre-rinse is generally ALWAYS
| done anyway but using detergent during it is a good idea.
|
| Pre-rinse mode in the dishwasher involves a first water and soap
| wash before the water recycling main wash occurs. Most grease can
| be removed with the pre-rinse cycle when detergent is used. This
| prevents having grease "re-applied" to the dishes during the main
| cycle and its repeated water recycles upon the dishes.
|
| Pre-rinse can always be done with or without detergent - some
| dishwashers do not have a dedicated holder for the detergent but
| only an indented space next to the normal cycle detergent holder.
| Use this for a detergent pre-rinse.
|
| Pre-rinsing in the sink before loading is still often necessary -
| no dishwasher is as effective at cleaning as hand washing. And
| especially when a dishwasher gets old, that already lesser
| effectiveness gets worse.
|
| Honestly this article sounds like a dishwasher PR story planted
| in the normal news. This IS HOW MOST NEWS SOURCES OPERATOR now: a
| PR firm/group at a corporation will write a bunch of pro-
| Firm/pro-Product articles FOR use by magazines, newspapers,
| syndication, etc. This started to happen in the 1990s and now is
| pretty much all stories because 1) news organizations no longer
| have reporters at all or have no reporters "in the field" at all,
| and 2) the pay isn't good enough to do "real journalism" any
| more.
|
| I worked for a Fortune 25 company that was on the vanguard of
| this kind of PR-to-News system. It worked really well because
| editors are LAZY as are far too many journalists!
| sly010 wrote:
| Fun fact: you can sous-vide in a dishwasher.
| post_break wrote:
| You can sous vide with the engine of your car too.
| leokennis wrote:
| To be honest, I find it hard to believe the "it saves water"
| argument.
|
| How do you need 100 liters of water to hand wash 144 items? I can
| wash up an exquisite dinner for six in two tubs of water, that is
| maybe ten liters tops? (Just make sure to start with the cleaner
| stuff so your water doesn't get full of chunks of food.) A normal
| small family dinner is easily washed up in 5 liters of water and
| one squirt of liquid...
|
| In a similar vain you need to use a cotton tote bag thousands of
| times to beat the environmental impact of plastic bags
| (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/24/style/cotton-totes-climat...)
| and the same goes for your reusable coffee cup
| (https://www.anthropocenemagazine.org/2017/07/reusable-or-
| dis...).
| interestica wrote:
| What would your process be if you had a single sink/tub? In
| those cases, I think many people just keep the tap on (which is
| 3+ litres per minute).
| leokennis wrote:
| First clean of food chunks into the bin. Then fill the tub
| with hot water + liquid. Then submerge plates etc. one by one
| while scrubbing them. When clean, put in the dish rack to
| dry.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Apparently, it is common practice in some regions _to wash
| dishes under a continuously flowing stream of water from the
| taps._ Practices vary widely by region. Russian seems to favour
| the "let it flow" practice. Germany and several regions with a
| history of water shortages and rationing (Australia, South
| Africa, California) equal or best even the most efficient
| dishwashing machines.
|
| There the usual practice is more like:
|
| - Fill wash sink with dishes to be washed. (Excess sit on the
| counter next to the sink.)
|
| - Fill wash sink with hot sudsy water.
|
| - Fill rinse sink with cold clear water.
|
| - Place drying rack on counter on opposite side of sink to
| dirty dishes.
|
| My preferred workflow is right-to-left for all this.
|
| - Let dishes soak in washing-up fluid for a few minutes.
|
| - Scrub off any attached food w/ sponge and/or brush.
|
| - Move to rinse sink.
|
| - Place in drying rack.
|
| (This is second-nature to me. Apparently it's a revelation to
| some.)
|
| The washing sink holds about 2 gallons / 8 litres of water. The
| rinse sink another another 1/2 gallon / 2 litres.
|
| And dishes and tableware come out clean. I frequently find
| myself re-washing what comes out of the dishwasher. There are
| also items that cannot go through the dishwasher, meaning that
| there's some hand-washing regardless.
|
| My view is that it's ... a wash. Efficient hand-washing is
| about as efficient as a high-efficiency dishwasher. If hand-
| washing dishes isn't a chore to you (and/or you live in a small
| household), it's fine.
|
| I also find it far easier to determine what's clean or not, and
| to put dishes away, from the drying rack than from the
| dishwasher.
|
| Studies from a few years back on the machine-vs-hand
| discussion.
|
| https://slate.com/technology/2008/04/is-it-worth-the-effort-...
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20140716153651/http://www.landte...
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Note that the study I'm linking here is all but certainly the
| one the Gruanaid references. It seems to be the go-to. And it
| is virtually always hugely misrepresented (as in this
| particular article).
|
| If you're hand-washing in a pre-filled tub using a few
| litres/gallons of water, you're about as efficient as a
| dishwashing machine. In my experience it's nearly as fast
| (loading/unloading are a considerable time factor),
| cleanliness is far easier to assure, and wear on dishes,
| glassware, flatware, and cutlery is vastly reduced. (Though
| you may break more items if you're clumsy.)
| stevewodil wrote:
| >so your water doesn't get full of chunks of food
|
| This indicates to me that you are using a literal tub of water
| to wash the items in, using the same water for all dishes.
| Kinda gross but besides the point. Most people that hand wash
| dishes are just letting the faucet run while they wash the dish
| so that's why it uses so much water, they aren't reusing any
| water
| Filligree wrote:
| That's why most sinks have two compartments. You wash your
| dishes in one, then rinse in the other. Do it right and it's
| just as efficient as the dishwasher.
|
| Still more work, of course.
| watwut wrote:
| Definitely not true that most sinks have two compartments.
| Those are super rare.
| morsch wrote:
| Used to be super common around these parts twenty years
| ago, before dishwashers were ubiquitous.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| it's 100% the norm in the UK to wash dishes in a tub (as
| opposed to under the tap; dishwashers are common too). You
| change the water when it gets mucky, but if you've scraped
| off your solid food & rinsed off sauce residue beforehand,
| that takes a while.
| persedes wrote:
| Dito here in germany (at least in my near family), the
| dishwasher essentially reuses the same water too to clean
| after rinsing, you just don't see it hehe.
|
| Suds are also not rinsed off in the UK if I recall? That
| would definitely safe some water too.
| steerablesafe wrote:
| Well, the dishwasher also reuses water, that's how it saves
| water.
| jacobmischka wrote:
| Yes, but it also filters and traps the chunks in the tray
| that you're supposed to clean.
| chewbacha wrote:
| In addition it operates at a higher temperature and pH
| than hand washing, which is fairly antimicrobial very
| just detergent and hand-hot temperature.
| Leherenn wrote:
| Most people do not hand wash 144 items at once though. If
| there's only one person with a plate, fork, knife, glass and
| pan that's roughly 30 wash cycles.
| morsch wrote:
| _A normal small family dinner is easily washed up in 5 liters
| of water and one squirt of liquid..._
|
| You can probably fit four of those dinners into a dishwasher
| and it'll still use only 10l. I agree that the comparison in
| the article seems exaggerated in the article and more
| reasonable estimates I can find put dishwashers at double the
| efficiency.
|
| I've read other numbers (e.g. 131 times[1]) for cotton totes --
| they're bound to vary since both plastic bags and cotton bags
| vary widely in their construction and how heavy duty they are.
| That said I'm sure I have cotton bags that I've used a thousand
| times and I expect I'll use them another thousand times, at
| least.
|
| [1] https://www1.wdr.de/wissen/mensch/baumwolltaschen-
| papiertuet...
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Many of the arguments against reusable bags focus on water
| and energy costs of natural fibres (surprisingly high), but
| not on the million-year biohazard waste legacy of plastics.
|
| The principle problem with cost-benefit analysis is in
| determing what costs and benefits to consider, and what
| values to ascribe to them.
|
| Mind that numerous reusable bags are themselves synthetic
| (nylon or other plastics), which starts splitting differences
| --- lower energy and water costs, but still presenting the
| waste-stream hazard.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| A problem with re-usable bags I've found in the US is some
| people turn them into another fashion item. So they replace
| them every couple of years.
|
| Combined with a once/week grocery run, you're looking at
| around 100 uses for a half dozen or so bags.
| peanut_worm wrote:
| Has anyone tried one of those tiny countertop dishwashers? I just
| got one and I think its neat. I guess thats how I can tell I am
| getting older.
| vanderZwan wrote:
| > _Despite all the caveats, dishwashers are not only the
| convenient answer to our modernist woes, they're actually more
| energy- and water-efficient than hand washing. A full dishwasher
| can clean 144 items with roughly 13 litres of water, or anything
| between eight and 20. According to a study by the University of
| Bonn, hand washing the same load uses, on average, 100 litres of
| water._
|
| I genuinely wonder how people get up to 100 litres of water, or
| if my intuition regarding nr. of items vs water volume is just
| that far off. Are we sure this isn't measured by comparing to
| people using a constantly running tap for this instead of filling
| up one sink for washing and one for rinsing? Because I was pretty
| shocked to discover that most of my friends use a constantly
| running tap while washing the dishes.
| wyattpeak wrote:
| I went searching, because it does sound like quite the quotable
| claim. Almost everyone who talks about the efficiency of
| handwashing seems ultimately to be referencing the same
| paper[1], although virtually nobody cites it.
|
| The peak of the distribution of water usage is in the 40-50
| litre range, however a nontrivial number of people use an
| absolutely enormous amount of water. The paper gives some
| observations about different approaches to washing, although it
| doesn't describe them systematically.
|
| [1] https://www.tempurl4.uni-
| bonn.de/forschung/haushaltstechnik/...
| MisterTea wrote:
| > instead of filling up one sink for washing and one for
| rinsing?
|
| Most people I know have one sink. Two sinks were found in rich
| peoples homes.
|
| Personally I really want one of those big commercial sink
| faucets that's a flexible shower head suspended by a spring BUT
| turned on by a momentary foot pedal instead of a squeeze valve
| on the head. The you have both hands free to rinse and scrub
| while your foot operates the faucet.
| vanderZwan wrote:
| > _Most people I know have one sink. Two sinks were found in
| rich peoples homes_
|
| My tiny student apartment had one, but other than that even
| the social housing I've lived in had two. My experience is
| limited to slightly older housing in the Netherlands and
| Sweden tough, so the other commenters point about smaller
| sinks being a consequence of cutting costs might still be
| valid.
|
| Also, provided there is enough space this can be done in a
| single sink too: wash all items first, then rinse them.
| Speaking from (student) experience.
| em-bee wrote:
| we actually have two sinks, but one sink is misused as as a
| drying rack because there is no other space.
|
| not having hands free to turn water on and off is also an
| issue i ran into resulting in letting water running more
| often than necessary.
| gruez wrote:
| >I genuinely wonder how people get up to 100 litres of water,
| or if my intuition regarding nr. of items vs water volume is
| just that far off. Are we sure this isn't measured by comparing
| to people using a constantly running tap for this instead of
| filling up one sink for washing and one for rinsing?
|
| A quick search says faucets run between 1.5 to 2 gallons per
| minute. That works out to 13.2 to 17.6 minutes of water.
| Dividing that by 144 items works out to 5.5 to 7.3 seconds of
| "on" water per item. That's on the high side, but not
| unreasonable if you're doing a through rinse.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The article _GROSSLY_ misstates the findings of the University
| of Bonn study.
|
| Yes, many people around the world wash dishes under an open tap
| in a manner that can use 100+ litres of water.
|
| But if you're filling a sink tub with hot sudsy water, soaking
| and scrubbing plates, and then rinsing them in a second tub of
| cold clear water (and even a squirts from the spigot), you're
| using about the same amount of water as a dishwasher.
|
| The dishes come out as clean _or cleaner_ (the detergent 's
| less effective, but you can scrub where the dishwasher cannot,
| and for tough stains you can use appropriate treatments), and
| there's far less wear on plates, glasses, and flatware as
| you're not using harsh chemicals and abrasives.
|
| If you have a large household or really don't like hand-
| cleaning dishes, go ahead and use the dishwasher, especially a
| modern one, and follow the tips. If you don't mind doing dishes
| by hand, or only have a few items (and need to wash them for
| next use), handwashing in the sink is plenty efficient. There
| are far worse consumers of water and energy.
| Kluny wrote:
| I don't even have 144 items in my kitchen, I don't think, so
| that's probably a lot of dishwashing. It could happen if you
| lane the water running the entire time. I'm horrified to think
| that some people do that.
| em-bee wrote:
| saving water is not all that matters. actually, saving soap is
| a lot more important. the more concentrated the dirt and soap
| is in the water, the harder it is for the biological wastewater
| treatment to work.
|
| i can't find the reference but i remember reading an article in
| a german magazine lamenting about exactly that problem,
| suggesting that people don't use enough water instead of to
| much.
|
| as a consequence, i prefer to spend more time scrubbing and
| rinsing and trying to remove as much dirt as possible without
| using soap, and only add a bit of soap at the end to remove the
| remaining oils that scrubbing can't get rid of.
|
| given how much soap some people use when handwashing, the
| dishwasher may still be more effective on average, but i
| wouldn't use one just to save water.
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| >saving water is not all that matters. actually, saving soap
| is a lot more important. the more concentrated the dirt and
| soap is in the water, the harder it is for the biological
| wastewater treatment to work. i can't find the reference but
| i remember reading an article in a german magazine lamenting
| about exactly that problem, suggesting that people don't use
| enough water instead of to much.
|
| That link would be worth its length in gold for me to show my
| spouse!
| anthony_romeo wrote:
| More often than not [at least where I happen to live in the US]
| I actually see kitchen sinks with only one basin (and often too
| small). One basin isn't really enough to efficiently clean
| dishes without it being a big hassle.
|
| I suspect that this is a multifaceted consequence of
| dishwashers becoming so commonplace, people cooking less and
| less, and constant attempts by owners to cut minor costs at the
| expense of tenants' standard of living.
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| If you want to save more water/have only one sink: only put a
| little bit of water in the sink and rinse with the tap (not
| constantly running of course) into the washing sink.
|
| Not really much more trouble and you're always rinsing with
| clean water.
| [deleted]
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| >my friends use a constantly running tap while washing the
| dishes.
|
| I realize this will sound whiny and justifying water wasting,
| but I am including tech solutions...
|
| 1. My hands are busy and filthy while I am washing dishes. I
| don't want to touch the handle. = Give me a foot controlled
| valve.
|
| 2. My kitchen faucet literally takes 2 minutes to get hot
| water. = Give me instant hot water (to a precise temp that
| won't burn me).
|
| 3. More water pressure makes it faster to clean food off and
| speed is of the essence when you are doing this chore. =
| Pressurize the water.
|
| On a side note, I have determined that being the one in a
| relationship that takes full responsibility for the ever
| ominous dishes chore allows me to do less overall chores
| without complaint from my partner.
| [deleted]
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| > I don't want to touch the handle. = Give me a foot
| controlled valve.
|
| If you want to save a bit of water, you can get faucets that
| are "touch" controlled (on/off). That way you can touch the
| faucet with your wrist/forearm/back of hand to turn it
| on/off. Temp is controlled by the knob position so it stays
| the same temp through on/off cycles until you move the knob.
| darkarmani wrote:
| 1. Quick search: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Home-
| Improvement-Touchle...
|
| 2. You can get a water circulator that moves hot water to the
| cold water pipe until it gets hot. I haven't met a plumber
| that has recommended them though.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Try insulating your hot-water pipes if you've not done so
| already. Wrap with foam or apply a spray-foam sealant.
|
| (This requires access to the plumbing, of course.)
|
| Foot-pedal taps _are_ available, though they 're more
| commonly a hospital item.
| geoduck14 wrote:
| I really like the picture they used under the headline
| (https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/756c829022c84b995499d3c076e2c...)
|
| There is something fun about the change in perspective used in
| pictures like this.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| I think time is the ultimate measurement when using dishwasher.
| The trick is to know if you can load the dish washer faster than
| you clean it by hand. You start measuring at the point you stand
| in-front of the sink and end when you press the start button.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| I'd count the unloading phase as well.
|
| With hand-washed dishes, there should be no ambiguity over
| whether or not the dishes are clean or not (if they're in the
| drying rack, they're clean). With the dishwasher, not only can
| I not immediately tell, but often what's been washed is not in
| fact clean.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-09-08 23:01 UTC)