[HN Gopher] Show HN: Arxiv.org on IPFS
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Arxiv.org on IPFS
        
       Author : hugoroussel
       Score  : 221 points
       Date   : 2021-09-07 07:35 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.xirva.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.xirva.org)
        
       | brylie wrote:
       | I get an error on several articles to the effect of:
       | 
       | invalid ipfs path: invalid path "/ipfs/undefined/2107.00648.pdf":
       | invalid CID: expected 1 as the cid version number, got:
       | 31965309853
        
       | imback wrote:
       | Slightly OT, but how is IPFS these days? Every time I've tried
       | using it the past few years it seemed very WIP. Cool sounding
       | protocol though.
        
         | jstanley wrote:
         | I got turned off it because things that I'd pinned, and _knew_
         | I 'd pinned, would eventually become mysteriously inaccessible
         | unless accessed through the node that I pinned it on, and I
         | couldn't work out why. It's a great idea, but I found it too
         | flakey to satisfy me.
        
         | Taek wrote:
         | It's still very slow - retrieval times >30s for files that
         | aren't cached on cloudflare or ipfs.io. Also, those two
         | providers each have multiple periods of downtime every year.
         | 
         | If the files are cached and the services are up, it's plenty
         | fast for static data but dynamic data (IPNS) is still very
         | slow.
         | 
         | We've built a competitor called Skynet that is much faster
         | (less than 200ms for files that aren't in the cache) and scales
         | better. It's currently hosting tens of millions of files across
         | 200+ TB of data.
         | 
         | We really like the vision that IPFS had and we think
         | decentralized data is the future of the Internet. We're proud
         | to have put in the legwork to make it practical.
         | 
         | https://docs.siasky.net/
        
           | pimterry wrote:
           | Do you have any documentation that compares Skynet to IPFS
           | anywhere? From an architectural standpoint and/or features.
        
             | Taek wrote:
             | Closest we got at the moment is this:
             | https://skynet.guide/discover/storage-chains-
             | compared.html#f...
             | 
             | I'm writing a more direct comparison this week, we just
             | recently (less than 30 days ago) hit full feature parity
             | with ipfs, any webapp or file deployed on IPFS should work
             | natively on Skynet now as well. The link/identifier will be
             | different but you shouldn't need to change any code
        
           | menmob wrote:
           | Are you able to "pin" files yourself like IPFS? Or are you
           | required to pay hosts to store it?
        
             | Taek wrote:
             | You can always run a host yourself and pin it to your own
             | host.
             | 
             | The main reason we chose a host-based architecture instead
             | of a pin based architecture is that we saw on IPFS that
             | having people pin their own data resulted in really poor
             | uptimes, a lot of file rot, and it also substantially
             | reduced scalability and increased fetch times. And after
             | all of those tradeoffs, the vast majority of accessible
             | content on IPFS is hosted via a pinning service anyway.
        
               | a1369209993 wrote:
               | > You can always run a host yourself and pin it to your
               | own host.
               | 
               | (It sounds like it, but) to clarify, can you do this
               | completely for free, with no cooperation from a third
               | party (eg, you don't need to pay a existing host to vouch
               | for you)?
        
               | Taek wrote:
               | No need to pay an existing host or get any sort of
               | external party to enable you, it's a permissionless
               | network
        
               | menmob wrote:
               | Makes sense. I've just been looking at creating a
               | distributed YT archive on IPFS, but as you said, load
               | times are absolutely terrible, especially for big files
               | like video. I've been following sia since 2016-ish, and
               | skynet looks awesome, just worried about maturity. I will
               | try hosting my own files as you described, thanks!
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Why do you need a blockchain to implement Skynet?
        
             | Taek wrote:
             | The blockchain gets us a decentralized marketplace for
             | decentralized storage providers. Anyone can join as a
             | provider and get paid, and the blockchain can act as a
             | decentralized escrow that holds the payment until proof is
             | provided that the storage contract was properly fulfilled.
             | 
             | 98% of our technology is off-chain. Only a little tiny
             | sliver (the file contract open and close) is actually
             | posted to the blockchain.
        
       | woile wrote:
       | Wow looks super nice, feels so easy to navigate and read, I was
       | thinking it would be nice to have a RSS feed for some topics to
       | read as news. Great work!
        
       | eecc wrote:
       | Ah cool... I also took a stab at something similar several years
       | ago: https://github.com/ecausarano/heron
       | 
       | Also at the time I was considering IPFS.
       | 
       | But I guess the real trick is implementing a WOT to implement
       | peer review and filter out the inevitable junk that will be
       | published
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | Exactly the problem that I have. Many edge cases too.
        
         | westurner wrote:
         | "Help compare Comment and Annotation services: moderation,
         | spam, notifications, configurability" executablebooks/meta#102
         | https://github.com/executablebooks/meta/discussions/102 :
         | 
         | > jupyter-comment supports a number of commenting services
         | [...]. In helping users decide which commenting and annotation
         | services to include on their pages and commit to maintaining,
         | could we discuss criteria for assessment and current features
         | of services?
         | 
         | > Possible features for comparison:
         | 
         | > * Content author can delete / hide
         | 
         | > * Content author can report / block
         | 
         | > * Comments / annotations are screened by spam-fighting
         | service
         | 
         | > * Content / author can label as e.g. toxic
         | 
         | > * Content author receives notification of new comments
         | 
         | > * Content author can require approval before user-contributed
         | content is publicly-visible
         | 
         | > * Content author may allow comments for a limited amount of
         | time (probably more relevant to BlogPostings)
         | 
         | > * Content author may simultaneously denounce censorship in
         | all it's forms while allowing previously-published works to
         | languish
         | 
         | #ForScience
        
           | westurner wrote:
           | FWIW, archiving repo2docker-compatible git repos with a DOI
           | attached to a git tag, is possible with JupyterLite:
           | 
           | > _JupyterLite is a JupyterLab distribution that runs
           | entirely in the browser built from the ground-up using
           | JupyterLab components and extensions_
           | 
           | With JupyterLite, you can build a static archive of a
           | repo2docker-like environment so that the ScholarlyArticle
           | notebook or computer modern latex css, its SoftwareRelease
           | dependencies, and possibly also the Datasets can be run in a
           | browser tab with WASM. HTML + JS + WASM
        
         | kloch wrote:
         | What do you mean by junk? Spam and Abuse, or scientific papers
         | that the reviewer simply doesn't like?
        
       | sebmellen wrote:
       | Hey Hugo, do you have an email I could reach you at? I've been
       | thinking/working on these problems for 3 years now and would love
       | to find some smart people to partner with to further develop the
       | ideas. I don't have much to show publicly right now, but
       | https://intpub.org/ (soon to be scipub.app) is the start.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | eecc wrote:
         | Also keep me in the loop, plz :)
        
           | sebmellen wrote:
           | For sure! Will do.
        
         | betwixthewires wrote:
         | Oh wow I'm going to be watching your github repo, what you're
         | doing looks interesting.
         | 
         | Do you have any plans to implement some search functionality to
         | help find documents, or is it about permissionless publishing
         | only?
        
       | MayeulC wrote:
       | Doesn't seem to work (I don't have a local gateway on this
       | machine):
       | 
       | https://www.xirva.org/list/eess.IV/2011/2011.00052
       | 
       | Brings me to https://ipfs.io/ipfs/undefined/2011.00052.pdf
       | 
       | which says: invalid ipfs path: invalid path
       | "/ipfs/undefined/2011.00052.pdf": invalid CID: expected 1 as the
       | cid version number, got: 31965309853
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | Not all articles are uploaded yet, it is still WIP.
        
           | fnord77 wrote:
           | is search still a WIP?
        
             | hugoroussel wrote:
             | Everything is still WIP, very difficult to do rich indexing
             | on IPFS files. A new project idea ?
        
       | hevalon wrote:
       | Just a heads up comment, it seems some of the IPFS links are
       | broken. For example I just visited
       | https://www.xirva.org/categories/cs.AI and all links point to an
       | "undefined" path example
       | https://ipfs.io/ipfs/undefined/2107.00082.pdf
       | 
       | But overall, great idea!
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | Not all articles are uploaded yet, it is still WIP.
        
           | hevalon wrote:
           | that's fine. Maybe then for a better user experience have
           | grey-out or removed the IPFS download button for the articles
           | that haven't been uploaded yet.
        
         | meroje wrote:
         | links ? everything is a fake js button
        
       | T3RMINATED wrote:
       | ipfs resolve -r /ipfs/bafybeiamnft57u4lniylffuafzxouf4ocaw5uylahf
       | qoawj6rjnvwthuuu/list/cs.CV/2111/: no link named "list" under
       | bafybeiamnft57u4lniylffuafzxouf4ocaw5uylahfqoawj6rjnvwthuuu
        
       | leavenotracks wrote:
       | Search bar doesn't seem to be working...
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | yes
        
       | T-A wrote:
       | From the repo [1]:
       | 
       | "research publishing platform that is community based,
       | transparent and _censorship resistant_ " (my emphasis)
       | 
       | "Community members moderate the platform and _can increase or
       | decrease the visibility of the uploaded files_ " (again, my
       | emphasis)
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/hugoroussel/xirva
        
         | prvc wrote:
         | >censorship _resistant_
         | 
         | My emphasis.
        
       | Jhsto wrote:
       | How does the NFT thing work? I do not have Polygon tokens but I
       | wonder what have you envisioned as the functionality of this to
       | be?
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | Since it was for a ETHGlobal hackathon I thought it would be
         | fun to experiment with the feature where we mint an NFT where
         | the metadata points to the IPFS link. You could then do
         | whatever you do with an NFT.
        
           | Jhsto wrote:
           | I wonder how much information do you get from arxiv regarding
           | the dependency graph via citations. Could there be a way that
           | I, as I upload my own manuscript, to tip the authors of the
           | people I citated and conversely someday have the possibility
           | of also generating revenue personally as such? It would be
           | much nicer, I think, if the fees that are currently paid to
           | journals to instead go to the authors that also contributed
           | to my work.
        
             | hugoroussel wrote:
             | There are for sure interesting ideas related to new forms
             | of scientific funding. The issue I have and why the project
             | is currently on standby is how to combat spam/hoax articles
        
       | flexd wrote:
       | Hmm, my Firefox here on Ubuntu does not trust that CA for some
       | reason. And clicking "Accept the risk and continue" seems to just
       | land me back at the "Warning: Potential Security Risk Ahead"
       | page.
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | I think only www.xirva.org has valid certificate, maybe Firefox
         | strips the www for some reason.
        
       | hugoroussel wrote:
       | Build this during an hackathon where I felt like that arXiv was
       | in grand need of a small face lift. Currently not all articles
       | are uploaded. The repository is here :
       | http://github.com/hugoroussel/xirva
        
       | stevejpurves wrote:
       | does the upload here also submit to arxiv, or will uploading to
       | xivra mean they diverge?
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | It will diverge.
        
       | ithinkso wrote:
       | Not to be confused with viXra, which is a sci-fi alternative to
       | arXiv
        
         | kloch wrote:
         | viXra is full of nonsense but then again so is arXiv (see:
         | 750GeV debacle). viXra desperately needed a voting system and
         | if it did it would likely have been much more useful and become
         | a viable alternative to arXiv.
         | 
         | arXiv does not accept papers from authors with no institutional
         | affiliation and viXra was the only (and ugly) alternative.
         | There is an opportunity there to fix both sites.
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | What was the 750GeV debacle? That thing were some people said
           | LHC had found a new particle maybe?
        
             | kloch wrote:
             | A spurious signal at LHC (that disappeared in later runs)
             | that spurred a cottage industry of arXiv submissions trying
             | to explain it. Authors, mostly grad students, quickly
             | submitted hundreds of low quality articles trying to get in
             | on the "discovery". Later articles would cite over 400
             | previous articles and it became one giant circle jerk.
             | There were even blog posts complaining about the blatant
             | "ambulance chasing".
             | 
             | https://motls.blogspot.com/2016/06/ambulance-chasing-is-
             | just...
             | 
             | http://resonaances.blogspot.com/2016/06/game-of-
             | thrones-750-...
        
         | hugoroussel wrote:
         | I nearly called the project this name without knowing it
         | existed. Thanks for the share.
        
       | aerique wrote:
       | Cool.
       | 
       | Now the same for Sci-Hub?
        
       | onhn wrote:
       | "You can upload your research and publish it on the open web.
       | Members of the community will be able to vote on your research to
       | raise its visibility."
       | 
       | Oh dear.
        
         | Taek wrote:
         | How would you set it up? The decentralized world doesn't really
         | have a great system for curation at this point (unless you can
         | point to a counterexample!), and so I'm in favor of any sort of
         | playing around with decentralized voting/curation until we find
         | something that seems to be working well.
        
           | onhn wrote:
           | The standard and most effective form of curation in science
           | is the reference list at the end of a paper.
           | 
           | But usually you just read everything that is relevant to your
           | research interests from the daily arxiv posting.
        
           | SkyMarshal wrote:
           | Start from the objective of first do no harm. Voting systems
           | may eventually be gamed to distort results, so eliminate the
           | voting system. Instead rely on ad-hoc personal networks to
           | disseminate signal about quality papers out-of-band. Don't
           | assume you have to systematize everything.
        
           | jamescampbell wrote:
           | Voting (as was bore out in many examples including digg.com
           | and elsewhere) becomes a mob rule situation and variation of
           | tyranny of the commons without a novelty algorithm in
           | addition to total votes. If you just go by totals, it will be
           | easily gamified and rendered useless as a metric.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | baby wrote:
         | Sounds amazing to me
        
         | f0e4c2f7 wrote:
         | A perfect system? No, but think about how people must have felt
         | about Wikipedia on launch.
         | 
         | Love this idea.
        
           | gambler wrote:
           | Using Wikipedia as an example of a seemingly naive idea that
           | was ultimately proven to work is a pretty bad argument that
           | completely ignores how Wikipedia operates at the moment.
           | 
           | It's routinely used for propagating smears:
           | 
           | https://odysee.com/@AlisonMorrow:6/how-wikipedia-decides-
           | if-...
           | 
           | Even one of its co-founders says it's failing as an accurate
           | source of information:
           | 
           | https://odysee.com/@TimcastIRL:8/former-founder-of-
           | wikipedia...
           | 
           | Just like Jaron Lanier predicted in 2006:
           | 
           | https://www.edge.org/conversation/jaron_lanier-digital-
           | maois...
           | 
           | I never understood why so many technologists vehemently
           | defend a website that was _obviously_ prone to a form of
           | "regulatory capture" and groupthink.
        
             | bigphishy wrote:
             | In all my experience using wikipedia it has been successful
             | at providing facts and accurate references.
             | 
             | I don't mean to attack the speaker here, but that former
             | cofounder of wikipedia you just cited... isn't he an
             | extremist neo-conservative? Why did he leave wikipedia in
             | the first place? What are his proposed solutions?
        
           | NmAmDa wrote:
           | Actually I don't think science has democratic nature. Yes we
           | do somehow do that as a theory would still need to be
           | accepted widely. But in reality one person can have the
           | correct idea while all others disagree. Still this person is
           | doing it right.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | Scientific consensus is democratic in nature (even though
             | votes are not distributed evenly). The ideal is that
             | through reproducible experiments and application of the
             | scientific method the scientific consensus moves to
             | increasingly accurate models of reality over time. But
             | obviously the speed at which that happens varies, and some
             | right ideas took annoyingly long to get accepted into
             | scientific consensus.
        
               | kloch wrote:
               | Sure the right answer will eventually prevail but the
               | process is much worse than we like to admit. Many
               | breakthrough advances were outright rejected by
               | contemporary peers when first proposed.
               | 
               | "Fermi first submitted his "tentative" theory of beta
               | decay to the prestigious science journal Nature, which
               | rejected it "because it contained speculations too remote
               | from reality to be of interest to the reader." Nature
               | later admitted the rejection to be one of the great
               | editorial blunders in its history. ... Fermi found the
               | initial rejection of the paper so troubling that he
               | decided to take some time off from theoretical physics,
               | and do only experimental physics"
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi%27s_interaction
        
             | lmohseni wrote:
             | I believe science is a democratic process. If someone has
             | the correct idea but communicates it poorly, so poorly that
             | others in the field disagree, then this person is doing it
             | wrong. (Thinking specifically of
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinichi_Mochizuki )
        
               | hugoroussel wrote:
               | All and all it is a non trivial problem. You have at the
               | very least have to attach some kind of form of reputation
               | system into the verification process. Even with that you
               | will still have the "misunderstood genius" issue, or the
               | "excellent reputation professor" that everyone trust
               | without (enough) verification.
        
               | elcritch wrote:
               | But at least there's be a system for other researchers to
               | record "failed to replicate" that could give a channel to
               | critique reputable professors that's not controlled by
               | the same professors (as they often can in journals).
        
               | nextaccountic wrote:
               | The participation ought to be democratic in the sense of
               | being open to everyone to participate. But, you can't do
               | a vote and use it to decide who is right. Deep down we
               | know that being right or wrong is independent from the
               | scientific consensus. Mochizuki may be interacting with
               | the scientific community in the wrong way, but it has no
               | bearing on whether his theory is correct.
               | 
               | The consensus itself has some democratic features, but
               | it's weighed by prestige and adherence to the current
               | paradigm. I think Kuhn described its mechanism pretty
               | well. It's far easier to convince people of a wrong
               | result if you follow the established paradigm, than
               | convince people of something right if you go against it.
               | What really saves science from being pure dogma is that
               | there are paradigm shifts, revolutions in which the
               | scientific consensus change.
        
         | rglover wrote:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA0l1JXhLaI&t=19s
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-09-07 23:01 UTC)