[HN Gopher] Make a Joule Thief (2002)
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       Make a Joule Thief (2002)
        
       Author : bariumbitmap
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2021-09-05 12:56 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bigclive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bigclive.com)
        
       | nickcw wrote:
       | Big Clive's YouTube channel is worth a watch if you like seeing
       | electrical items disassembled and critiqued. It also has the
       | occasional explosion and unusual cooking videos!
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtM5z2gkrGRuWd0JQMx76qA
        
         | lscotte wrote:
         | Big Clive's channel(s) (he has a separate one for live streams)
         | have some of my favorite content on YouTube. He's super down to
         | earth and just has fun with what he does, never taking himself
         | too seriously while being very knowledgeable.
        
         | randombits0 wrote:
         | * Anticipated explosions managed with the fire containment pie
         | tin.
         | 
         | Big Clive is an electrical engineer from The Isle of Man and
         | has a very unique English accent, complete with local slang and
         | idioms. He's a very engaging character and passes as
         | entertainment, even without the electronics content. Genuine
         | and occasionally heartfelt and up-lifting. :)
        
           | gm3dmo wrote:
           | His accent is quite common in Scotland. What's really cool is
           | he has a brother "Ralfy" who also has a Youtube channel
           | specializing in reviewing Whisky:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWRyIShLRO0
           | 
           | They are the Tappet Brothers of the 21st Century.
        
             | lscotte wrote:
             | I love your Tappet Brother's analogy - it's spot on. The
             | videos they do together are hilarious in a way that only
             | two brothers could be.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | beside clive there's a bunch of special electrical oriented
         | channels:
         | 
         | - photonicinduction (warning, absurd levels of everything up to
         | 11, borderline insane at times, but if you want to see ultra
         | high everything, here's the channel)
         | 
         | - styropyro, spiritual son of the above, but for everything
         | lasers
        
         | Stevvo wrote:
         | It's a must watch for all the episodes that involve things
         | inserted up assholes, even if electronics isn't your thing.
        
       | HPsquared wrote:
       | Reminds me of this video about LED light bulbs that continue to
       | draw power even with the switch off. (Something to do with
       | capacitance of the house wiring, the capacitive coupling is
       | enough to make the bulb glow faintly even with the switch turned
       | off)
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/1uEmX5XClPY
        
       | bariumbitmap wrote:
       | Related submissions, although none have any comments:
       | 
       |  _Joule Thief_ (June 17, 2021)
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_thief
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27540614
       | 
       |  _How to steal every last bit of juice from a battery_ (April 28,
       | 2015) http://aeguana.com/blog/the-joule-thief/
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9451484
       | 
       |  _Joule thief - A minimal boost converter_ (January 25, 2015)
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_thief
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8941971
        
       | hasmanean wrote:
       | This circuit is intriguing...a single transistor power converter
       | that steps up the voltage to any value the load can take. It's
       | more like a pulsed current source.
       | 
       | It might be suitable for miniaturization.
        
         | datameta wrote:
         | Is it possible to build a circuit that keeps the same voltage
         | while letting the current drop?
        
           | yetihehe wrote:
           | Yes and no (your question is invalid/underspecified), with
           | voltage source (constant voltage), current is consequence of
           | device power demand at required voltage. More power required
           | at a given voltage, more current will flow. Less power
           | required, less current will flow, but voltage stays constant.
           | So, ALL voltage regulators are "dropping" current, so your
           | question could be answered by "any voltage regulator, for
           | example LM7805". But if some device requests some power and
           | your regulator's power source can't provide that power, your
           | voltage will drop.
        
             | datameta wrote:
             | Thanks for the explanation!
        
       | ricksunny wrote:
       | What are some of the most practical applications? I work in off-
       | grid energy (solar) and would be interested in when/whether a JT
       | can be more viable than, say, a boost DC/DC converter / linear
       | current booster.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | It _is_ a DC /DC converter. It's a basic switching power
         | supply.
         | 
         | I was hoping, from the name, for something that would pick up
         | ambient RF and deliver a milliwatt or so. That would be useful
         | for things that need minimal power and are a pain to connect to
         | a power source.
         | 
         | Such things have been around for decades. There's an
         | Instructable for this.[1] Newer designs try to use more of the
         | available spectrum.[2]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.instructables.com/RF-Energy-Harvester/
         | 
         | [2] https://www.teratonix.com
        
       | spapas82 wrote:
       | It would be great if this was available for purchase from
       | somewhere. And if it also included an on off button! I've got a
       | lot of dead batteries (because children toys) and it would be
       | nice using them to get some light for night reading!
        
         | blacksmith_tb wrote:
         | There are lots of 1AA LED lights out there, I have a couple
         | which are similar to this one (though this design looks nicer
         | than the ones I have)[1]
         | 
         | 1: https://www.tindie.com/products/sdp8483/multi-led-joule-
         | thie...
        
         | koala_man wrote:
         | Why don't you use rechargeable batteries? I stopped using them
         | in the 90s but switched back a few years ago. More convenient
         | and less wasteful than single use batteries, higher capacity
         | and longer device life than built in batteries.
        
           | spapas82 wrote:
           | They have so many toys (which use for so little each time)
           | that it ain't really worth it to use rechargeable
           | batteries... I am just buying a lot of normal batteries each
           | time and install them whenever needed. I just don't know what
           | to do with the empty (or seeming empty) ones.
        
             | Sharlin wrote:
             | Perhaps off-topic, and this may or may not be a popular
             | sentiment on HN, but maybe they could do with fewer toys?
             | At least fewer battery-operated ones? I mean, each and
             | every one of us should be doing our part to not partake in
             | unsustainable consumerism.
        
               | hamburglar wrote:
               | I've tried this but it's really hard to get the rest of
               | the gift-giving family on board. My kids just get way too
               | many toys these days. I use rechargeable almost
               | exclusively though and try to keep on top of pulling them
               | out of disused toys to put into newer toys. If a kid
               | tries to use an old toy that I've taken the batteries out
               | of (which rarely happens), I just give them more.
        
           | bxparks wrote:
           | I agree, NiMH rechargeables are better than alkalines in
           | almost every way. They don't leak and destroy the
           | electronics. They can be recharged 500-1000 times, so they
           | don't end up in a landfill after a single use. They have a
           | really flat voltage curve. They have lower internal
           | resistance, so can provide higher currents than alkalines.
           | 
           | I think the only exception might be in ultra low power
           | devices which last over a year on a single charge. But even
           | then, I am likely to use the more expensive NiMH, because I'm
           | so fed up with leaking alkaline batteries.
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | Low self-discharge NiMH can last a long time in low power
             | devices.
             | 
             | I've got a pair of first generation AAA Sanyo Eneloops in
             | my bathroom scale. They've been in there for 1028 days. I
             | have a pair in the display unit for a pair of wireless
             | fridge/freezer thermometers. That went 395 days.
             | 
             | I've got first generation AA Panasonic Eneloops currently
             | at 1079 days in one of the fridge/freezer thermometer
             | sensors and 978 days in the other. 539 days in a humidity
             | meter. 544 days in an analog wall clock.
        
             | fencepost wrote:
             | With a good charger (not the ones included in sets of
             | batteries) you can also refresh them through programmed
             | charge discharge cycles if you have batteries that aren't
             | in great shape anymore.
        
           | p1mrx wrote:
           | Rechargeable AA/AAA batteries were always limited to 1.2
           | volts, which works poorly in some devices. Now you can buy
           | lithium ion cells that regulate down to 1.5 volts, so NiMH is
           | basically obsolete. Alkaline can still make sense for things
           | with multi-year battery life, like remote controls.
        
       | veganjay wrote:
       | I built a joule thief flashlight as part of a workshop at a
       | security conference in 2018. We bought a kit that had all the
       | parts, and then soldered them together. For a beginner soldering
       | project, this is excellent.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, I don't think the kit I built is still available.
       | 
       | Here's some information I could dig up:
       | 
       | - https://www.gigaparts.com/etow-humanalight.html
       | 
       | - https://aa7ee.wordpress.com/2014/08/18/the-humanalight-a-fla...
       | 
       | - https://swling.com/blog/tag/etow-humanalight/
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | A few years ago there was some new company (I vaguely recall that
       | it may have been a Kickstarter or similar) touting something like
       | this built into a shell that you could put an AA battery in, and
       | the shell would still fit in most AA slots.
       | 
       | They were way overselling its benefits, claiming you would get
       | something like 6 times as much runtime out of your batteries, and
       | it got a lot of negative reviews and debunking at EE tech sites.
       | 
       | I wish someone would make one of these with that sleeve approach,
       | not as some sort of miracle energy extended scam but rather as a
       | voltage curve adjuster.
       | 
       | A common non-rechargeable alkaline battery starts at about 1.5
       | volts and over its useful life drops fairly steadily to a little
       | over 1 volt, and then rapidly drops to near zero.
       | 
       | A NiMH rechargeable starts at around 1.4, fairly quickly drops to
       | about 1.3, then over most of its life drops fairly smoothly to
       | about 1.2, then starts dropping faster to around 1.1, then
       | rapidly to near zero.
       | 
       | This is why you can use NiMH in devices designed for alkaline
       | batteries even though nominally alkaline batteries are higher
       | voltage. The device has to actually be designed to handle 1 to
       | 1.5 volts, and the NiMH is in that range for nearly all of its
       | discharge curve.
       | 
       | This is also why some devices designed for alkaline report low
       | battery on NiMH long before the batteries actually need changing,
       | and still report low but useful battery level right up until the
       | device stops working. They are estimating battery life by looking
       | at the voltage and fitting that to the alkaline discharge curve
       | to estimate how far the battery has discharged, and it makes the
       | batter level meter on many devices close to useless if you use
       | NiMH.
       | 
       | It would be great if there were a sleeve you could put around
       | your NiMH batteries that would dynamically raise or lower the
       | voltage as the battery discharges to make it match the alkaline
       | curve. Then your battery level indicator on your devices that
       | were designed only for alkaline would work.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | What you're talking about is the Batteriser/Batteroo. It would
         | actually work fine as a voltage stabilizer delivering a
         | constant voltage all the way to the end, but the inefficiencies
         | in power conversion would probably be a major downside (you're
         | losing some energy on the conversion even if the device itself
         | is powered off).
        
           | a1369209993 wrote:
           | > but the inefficiencies in power conversion would probably
           | be a major downside (you're losing some energy on the
           | conversion even if the device itself is powered off).
           | 
           | You can get around this[0] by starting the power converter in
           | series with the battery (so the load pulls current through it
           | to start it up) although that's: a: complicated, b: more
           | conversion overhead when it _is_ running, and c: rather
           | difficult when you only have 1.5 volts (or 1 volt) to work
           | with initially, compared to eg a 9-volt or 12-volt battery,
           | which exacerbates problems a and b.
           | /-[starter]-+---\       _+   | |    |   |       Ks
           | [regulator] [LOAD]       |    |          |
           | \----+----------/
           | 
           | 0: At least to the standards of the quiescent depletion being
           | a rounding error compared to the battery chemicals breaking
           | down over time.
        
         | p1mrx wrote:
         | If you search for "1.5V rechargeable", there are lots of
         | lithium ion batteries with electronic voltage regulators now.
         | Some designs will step down to ~1V when nearly depleted, so
         | that low battery indicators still work.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if an NiMH sleeve was ever practical given the
         | space constraints, but it's kind of moot now that better
         | technology exists.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-05 23:01 UTC)