[HN Gopher] Amtrak might add more routes, but they won't be fast...
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       Amtrak might add more routes, but they won't be faster than a car
        
       Author : ValentineC
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2021-09-04 19:19 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (edition.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (edition.cnn.com)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Doesn't need to be faster if you can sleep on the train. And
       | comfort is also a factor.
        
         | jdavis703 wrote:
         | Sure, but Amtrak doesn't run enough frequency to make the night
         | train use case work. Even on routes that support it, it's going
         | to be a day train on the opposite trip.
        
       | ljsocal wrote:
       | Once again comparisons ignore the time associated with owning and
       | maintaining a car.
       | 
       | Next time you're standing on line at the DMV, ask yourself "Self,
       | right now would I rather be sitting in a comfy seat on a train
       | sipping an adult beverage and looking out at the spectacularly
       | beautiful Pacific coastline?"
        
       | Railsify wrote:
       | This will probably be good for elderly people that don't want to
       | drive/fly.
        
       | ngokevin wrote:
       | What I figured was Amtrak travelers were train enthusiasts or
       | looking for a nostalgic scenic route. There are also some
       | benefits such as less stress than an airport, being able to have
       | a sleeper car, a dining car, more space, and panoramic cars as
       | you go over mountains and through deserts (Western US).
        
         | tmh88j wrote:
         | >What I figured was Amtrak travelers were train enthusiasts or
         | looking for a nostalgic scenic route.
         | 
         | I was genuinely surprised at all the comments here from people
         | stating they like Amtrak, but that makes a lot of sense. After
         | a dozen or so trips on trains around Europe I now loathe Amtrak
         | and don't see myself ever taking another ride with them outside
         | of extraordinary circumstances.
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | Amtrak and trains in general are great if you can work remote.
         | Being able to start working as soon as you get on the train if
         | you have nothing better to do is amazing.
        
           | someguydave wrote:
           | why not fly and get to your destination much faster and work
           | remote from there?
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | I don't mind it not being faster than car.
       | 
       | The problem though is, in most American cities, you still need a
       | car to get around once you get there.
       | 
       | Uber has made things better.
       | 
       | (and why doesn't CNN have separate volume control for videos?
       | They almost always play too loud)
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20210902120449/https://edition.cn...
        
       | Kalanos wrote:
       | Plus you have to get TO the Amtrack and Back
        
       | dccoolgai wrote:
       | It does not matter. The experience of riding AmTrak and just
       | being left alone and getting your own space to work on whatever
       | you want - especially in the quiet car - is fantastic. Every time
       | the trip is over I find myself wishing it was just 30 minutes
       | longer.
        
         | b9a2cab5 wrote:
         | Having commuted to work via Amtrak before, the train car shakes
         | far too much and mobile data is far too unreliable (even with
         | 5G) to be able to work without interruption.
        
           | wccrawford wrote:
           | My experience on Amtrak is that the lines in the north US are
           | nice, and the ones in the south are _awful_.
        
           | thesausageking wrote:
           | What route?
           | 
           | I've done NYC->BOS dozens of time and always get a lot of
           | work done. Mobile data works for most of the route, the train
           | is smooth, and the seats are roomie so you don't feel cramped
           | like on a plane.
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | I suppose this would largely depend on how reliant you are on
           | a connection. If you're writing code, you should totally be
           | able to do that, but maybe constant emailing or whatever
           | would need more consistent connection
        
         | perl4ever wrote:
         | My experience on Amtrak is that the train makes good time,
         | until a freight train comes along, and the passengers have to
         | wait, and wait, and wait...
         | 
         | This is presumably a policy/lobbying/political problem, not one
         | of physical infrastructure.
         | 
         | I think people have said that the US rail system exists for
         | freight, and without the will to change that, passengers are
         | second class.
        
           | mindslight wrote:
           | From riding the train cross country a few times and
           | researching, my understanding is that the big delays come
           | about due to the train getting to be a little late, and then
           | losing subsequent reservations down the line. One of the
           | biggest delays I experienced was outside of ABQ, which I
           | believe was because the train lost its timeslot and had to
           | fit in between local commuter trains. Which indicates that
           | freight trains do get rescheduled a bit, just not nearly
           | enough.
           | 
           | I don't know if there is a straightforward solution, as it's
           | death by a thousand cuts right now. The schedules need a
           | little more slack, the fines for freight trains that don't
           | yield need to have serious teeth (perhaps even reimbursing
           | freight traffic that is subsequently delayed down the line),
           | and areas under contention need more tracks.
           | 
           | Without a serious infrastructure buildout, the train is never
           | going to be competitive with car speeds (we'd need to get rid
           | of all level crossings, for starters). But it could at least
           | be predicable.
        
           | michael1999 wrote:
           | The tracks are owned by freight, and rented for passenger.
           | Changing that would be expensive.
        
             | iluvcommunism wrote:
             | We just need Amtrak to own their own rails. Or whoever runs
             | the passenger lines. It's ridiculous they share it.
        
               | pstuart wrote:
               | Agreed. Nationalize the rails, invest in and enforce PTC
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control),
               | and make passenger traffic a peer to freight.
               | 
               | We could allow for a "market economy" of the rails where
               | you could have differentiated passenger services with
               | Amtrak being the the fundamental offering and allow third
               | parties to participate as well.
        
               | antognini wrote:
               | The British model, where the state owns the rails but the
               | train services are private, seems to work a lot better
               | than the US model which is the opposite.
        
               | jerrysievert wrote:
               | I think that would only work if the freight trains were
               | not allowed on the Amtrak owned rails. even now, amtrak
               | has legal right of way, but the freight companies ignore
               | it because there is no recourse.
        
             | jerrysievert wrote:
             | amtrak has right of way over the freight trains, but that
             | does not seem to matter to the freight companies, as they
             | never get fined over it.
             | 
             | see http://blog.amtrak.com/2019/05/why-are-amtrak-trains-
             | delayed... for more context.
        
       | ddreier wrote:
       | I'm probably different from most people, but I really wish there
       | were more rail options in the US (I'm in Texas). It's a 4 hour
       | drive from where I live to my hometown. I really don't enjoy
       | driving, and would happily take a train even if it took twice as
       | long as driving. I'd visit home a lot more too.
        
         | Gibbon1 wrote:
         | If it's a high speed rail line at some distance it becomes
         | faster to go by rail. Even slow rail. I once took the train
         | from Glasgow to London and it was about 5 hours. Same drive I
         | think is 7 hours.
         | 
         | Personally I like to remind myself when I'm driving that every
         | one taking mass transit isn't on the road with me.
        
           | involans wrote:
           | Three West Coast Main Line operates speeds up to
           | 125mph/200kmph, so very much high speed rail in US terms -
           | faster than the Acela if I recall correctly.
        
       | ljsocal wrote:
       | Once again the comparison ignores the time associated with owning
       | and maintaining a car. Next time you're standing on line at the
       | DMV, ask yourself "Self, would I rather be sitting in a comfy
       | seat on a train looking out at the Pacific coastline?"
        
         | leetcrew wrote:
         | amtrak isn't exactly cheap. I choose it over car/plane whenever
         | it's practical, but I consider that more of a luxury than
         | anything. a single DC<->NYC roundtrip is already more than my
         | monthly car insurance.
        
           | vuldin wrote:
           | This is not a problem inherent to rail systems or travel.
           | This is a symptom of the poor state of the US rail system.
        
       | BrianOnHN wrote:
       | Virtual routes can/should be developed to enable self-driving.
       | Anything that can be reliably followed as a "track" by "computer
       | vision" would work. Compared to a trains, the infrastructure
       | investment would be negligible to install on major interstates.
       | Cars that currently have cruise control with emergency stopping
       | capabilities could utilize the "tracks" with minimal
       | modifications. Confidence in your safety while being distracted
       | and commuting is the value-add to transportation of Amtrak, and
       | that could be replaced.
       | 
       | However, Amtrak has historically been a socialism that blue-
       | collar towns are OK with participating in, so my guess is that
       | this initiative has more to do with giving government money to
       | those people than solving any real transportation issue.
        
       | syops wrote:
       | In 1995 China and the U.S. both had essentially zero miles of
       | high speed rail. Today China has tens of thousands of miles of
       | high speed rail and the U.S. still has essentially zero miles of
       | high speed rail. We did invest $6 trillion in 20 years of most
       | less pointless warfare.
        
         | wonnage wrote:
         | People argue about how the demographics of china make this
         | possible, america is too spread out, blah blah blah...
         | 
         | I would rather have a thousand miles of pointless HSR than
         | pointlessly bombing a bunch of taliban who are now back and no
         | worse for wear
        
           | 8note wrote:
           | China's high speed rail is going to places where they want to
           | increase the Han population.
        
             | wonnage wrote:
             | thanks for the vaguely xenophobic and mostly meaningless
             | comment
        
               | dang wrote:
               | " _Don 't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them
               | instead._"
               | 
               | a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
             | mushbino wrote:
             | You mean the only ethnicity targeted by the one child
             | program?
        
               | dang wrote:
               | Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
             | dang wrote:
             | Please don't take HN threads on flamewar tangents.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
             | thatfrenchguy wrote:
             | Like between Beijing and Shanghai?
        
           | syops wrote:
           | Yeah, the demographic density argument fails to hold up to
           | the fact that spending $6 trillion on high speed rail would
           | have been much more beneficial to society than spending it on
           | Iraq/Afghanistan.
        
             | MiddleEndian wrote:
             | I like inter-city travel via train more than flying or
             | driving, but even in the Northeast Corridor, which is the
             | most well-serviced rail area in the US and certainly has
             | the demographic density, it's not always worth it in
             | practice.
             | 
             | Boston to Providence is 45 minutes, faster than driving,
             | very happy to take that trip. (For those who don't know,
             | Providence traffic is more ridiculous than Boston traffic,
             | so even my more car-oriented friends tend to like this trip
             | via train)
             | 
             | Boston to NYC is about 3 and a half hours, with the
             | convenient location of Penn Station, the lack of
             | airplane+airport bullshit, it's not bad. I like it more
             | than flying, plus you can just buy a ticket and travel on a
             | whim.
             | 
             | But Boston to DC is 7 hours assuming everything goes
             | smoothly, and much longer if it doesn't. I can't justify
             | the DC trip by train, it's only a 90 minute flight.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor
             | 
             | Wikipedia says "Concepts for improvements to achieve "true"
             | high-speed rail on the corridor, which have been estimated
             | by Amtrak to cost $151 billion, envision cutting travel
             | times roughly in half, with trips between New York and
             | Washington that would take 94 minutes."
             | 
             | But I remember something similar being on the Wikipedia
             | page when I was in college, and I graduated a decade ago.
             | We really have no excuse to not have spent that money on
             | our own infrastructure. We could have Boston to DC in 3
             | hours. Suddenly the train would be a lot more viable for a
             | lot of people.
        
             | blahblahblogger wrote:
             | I'm not trying to be a troll with this, but is that true?
             | 
             | I don't mean the fact that Iraq and Afghanistan were failed
             | missions. But I've heard that 90% of the money spent on
             | those wars went to Americans in some way or another,
             | military contractors, suppliers, etc. all the way down the
             | line to people like me in tech who may work on software
             | used by the military.
        
               | dastbe wrote:
               | you could make sure 90% of the money spent on high speed
               | rail went to americans. that's orthogonal to what the
               | outcome of paying those americans is.
        
               | iluvcommunism wrote:
               | That goes back to the Milton Friedman quote I love:
               | "what's good for me is good for the country."
        
               | blargarg wrote:
               | You could spend all that money employing contractors
               | producing weapons and weapons research. Or you could
               | spent that money employing contractors producing high
               | speed rail.
        
               | MiddleEndian wrote:
               | Right now, the money went to Americans and the result was
               | we blew up countries the Middle East, North Africa,
               | Central Asia. Imagine instead if the money went to
               | Americans anyway, AND we had much better national
               | infrastructure. You could even pitch it as necessary for
               | national defense anyway.
        
               | syops wrote:
               | According to this Adam Tooze article the wars cost around
               | 800,000 dead people. Then there is the incalculable
               | emotional cost to survivors and participants. This alone
               | means that spending $6 trillion building trains would
               | have been much better than on war.
               | 
               | https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-34-how-we-
               | paid-fo...
        
         | rufus_foreman wrote:
         | Public transportation is (almost always) an inferior good. If
         | one country is consuming more of an inferior good than another
         | country, it means that they are poorer than that other country.
        
           | zeotroph wrote:
           | "A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars.
           | It's where the rich use public transportation." -Gustavo
           | Petro
           | 
           | See London or Paris or even New York City. Just getting
           | everyone a car only creates cities which are contain more
           | parking lots than buildings and green spaces.
        
             | rufus_foreman wrote:
             | The richer you are in New York City, the less you spend on
             | public transportation. That's an inferior good.
        
               | Bilal_io wrote:
               | Look at the "Park & Ride" concept in the Seattle area (I
               | am sure it exists in other cities). I've seen a lot of
               | people that are very comfortable financially take the bus
               | to work. Public transportation only becomes inferior when
               | its infrastructure is horrible, and it is humiliating to
               | take a bus because of the wait time, delays or how packed
               | they get.
        
               | rufus_foreman wrote:
               | If someone in Seattle goes from 200,000 a year in income
               | to 2,000,000 a year in income, do they spend more or less
               | money on Park & Ride?
        
               | babyshake wrote:
               | In San Francisco and New York at least, one important
               | reason public transportation is inferior is you are
               | regularly confronted with mental illness, disgusting
               | sights and smells, and sometimes violence.
        
               | babyshake wrote:
               | I've always wondered why there haven't been more efforts
               | to offer certain benefits (more comfort and privacy) to
               | those who can pay more to ride public transportation.
               | This would provide more funding for these systems and is
               | not too different from what we already see on planes and
               | trains.
        
           | syops wrote:
           | It depends on how one measures poorer. Economists will look
           | at a society with more cars per person as a good sign. I view
           | it as a bad one if the country is already wealthy. The
           | profligacy of Americans is obscene and makes us poorer in
           | spirit, morality, and we pay for it with unhealthy lives. The
           | accompanying lack of walking by Americans alone leads to a
           | less healthy lifestyle. We also lose out on the mental
           | benefits that walking provides. We gain a higher amount of
           | pollution due to emissions from cars and the increased amount
           | of resource extraction that comes with it.
        
         | forinti wrote:
         | 1995 is an interesting year, because China's GDP overtook
         | Brazil's then.
         | 
         | It is now ~10x larger.
        
         | ews wrote:
         | I think this is the core of it, we have moved most of our
         | resources to foreign wars and let our infrastructure to rot.
         | That this is not even part of the public discourse shows the
         | decay of the US as a country.
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | It is very much a part of public discourse, the military
           | industrial complex has been discussed since the 70s. The
           | problem is that - well, I don't know what the problem is.
           | Maybe it is that everyone is too busy with the meaningless
           | stuff that they show on cable news to be too concerned with
           | things that affect their lives.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | The problem is far too many americans take pride in how big
             | and tough our military is. They equate military spending to
             | might.
             | 
             | You propose "Hey, maybe 700 billion dollars on the military
             | is excessive" and you get "But then china/russia/the
             | terrorists/etc can invade us!"
        
               | cheschire wrote:
               | 2.1m service members, over 700k civilians employed by the
               | military directly [0]. Then you have the endless stream
               | of military contractors, and you're looking at almost 1
               | out of every 50 working age people in America benefits
               | directly from the federal military activity.
               | 
               | So yeah, of course people are taking pride in a big
               | military since it provides so much of their community
               | income.
               | 
               | 0: https://www.governing.com/archive/military-civilian-
               | active-d...
        
               | kasey_junk wrote:
               | It's more than that. Culturally they US has a big
               | population that is anti-large government social benefits,
               | except in the concept of the military.
               | 
               | By joining the military you gain access to federally paid
               | education, health care, social services, housing etc.
               | that has broad political support. If you yanked those
               | funds you'd decimate one of the foundational social
               | safety nets in the States.
        
               | syops wrote:
               | Nothing would be decimated if we yanked those funds other
               | than our ability to destroy other nations. We could build
               | a much better social safety system that covers far more
               | people. It's not as if military spending is the only
               | option as far as this goes.
        
           | version_five wrote:
           | Rail is "socialist" (not meant in a political way) in that it
           | is generally a government investment for the people. My sense
           | is the US is generally less apt to do this vs e.g. europe
           | where there has been much more investment. I think this has
           | more to do with it than the money not being available because
           | of wars.
        
             | syops wrote:
             | We could have done both. Opponents of rail decry it's
             | apparent inefficiency and call it wasteful spending. Even
             | assuming it is wasteful spending it'd still have been much
             | better spending $6 trillion on building trains than on the
             | wars. Has so many resources ever been spent for so little
             | gain?
        
         | scottLobster wrote:
         | To be fair a lot of Chinese rail is extremely wasteful and more
         | of a government run full employment program than a direct
         | economic benefit.
         | 
         | But I'll agree it would have probably been better to spend the
         | Iraq/Afghanistan war money domestically on any number of
         | things.
        
           | JoshTko wrote:
           | Wasteful in that rail laid per dollar is not good or wasteful
           | in that the rail in underused?
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | What's wasteful about that?
        
             | iluvcommunism wrote:
             | What's wasteful about paying millions of people to shovel
             | dirt? Now take your answer and apply it to your question.
        
             | missedthecue wrote:
             | Jobs programs make us poorer on net.
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | Price is also a factor.
       | 
       | In the UK it is often faster take the train on some routes than
       | driving it, but the price is often absurd. For the cost of a
       | tank/half a tank of petrol (PS20-50) Vs potentially hundreds for
       | a train ticket.
       | 
       | E.g. London to Newcastle is about 280miles. By train I just got
       | quotes for PS320 return tickets. I could get there and back in
       | perhaps 1.5 tanks of petrol (approx PS60-70) in my hybrid, but
       | will take about an 30mins longer by car (4 hours Vs 4.5 hours)
       | 
       | Thanks but no thanks.
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | From my experience (not recent), Amtrak is barely competitive
         | with flying.
        
           | murderfs wrote:
           | Comparing it now, it looks like it's only competitive if your
           | time is completely worthless. A nonstop flight from Seattle
           | to SFO or SJC is $50, and is ~2 hours plus whatever time it
           | takes to go through security. Via Amtrak, it looks like the
           | best case scenario is $57 for a ride that takes longer than
           | 24 hours?!
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | $50 is a depressed rate.
        
         | jdavis703 wrote:
         | Isn't parking in London going to be really expensive though (I
         | could be wrong, I've never driven in London)?
        
         | pasture wrote:
         | What tickets were you looking at?
         | 
         | I've had a look and booking a train for 14th Sept 18:00 (Kings
         | X - Newcastle) with a return the next day at the same time,
         | costs PS112.60 (PS74.25 with a railcard).
         | 
         | That brings it a lot closer to the petrol price, but also gives
         | you the advantage of not having to bother concentrating on the
         | road and finding a place to park.
        
           | elicash wrote:
           | Whether you're alone or with a family has big impact on
           | train/car price comparisons.
        
           | mattlondon wrote:
           | 11:27 Mon 6th PS316.50 return.
        
       | unearth3d wrote:
       | I'm in NZ but would gladly take a train (no passenger rail on my
       | island), time spent driving is time I usually can't charge for
       | (eg general sales), and even where I can it's still hours that I
       | can't design. It'd be worthwhile even if it was 10 % slower than
       | driving.
        
         | jdavis703 wrote:
         | In the US it takes 5 hours to drive from San Francisco to LA.
         | It takes 11 hours to take the train.
        
           | finfinfin wrote:
           | If we could reduce that to 6-7 hours I would take the train
           | every single time. Driving is an active process vs taking the
           | train where I can work/read. Current 11 hours is just too
           | long.
        
             | jdavis703 wrote:
             | I've taken the train to LA. It just totally sucks time wise
             | (it's been hours late every time I've taken it.) The worst
             | part is it will be decades before HSR is even completed.
        
             | treis wrote:
             | There are buses that do the trip in that time. For what
             | California is spending on HSR they could make the bus free
             | and give passengers $50 for their trouble and come out
             | ahead.
        
           | byroot wrote:
           | > It takes 11 hours to take the train.
           | 
           | How's that even possible? Looking at GMaps, there's roughly
           | 650km of tracks between the two, so that's an average of
           | 60km/h.
           | 
           | Even regular speed trains in Europe easily average 100 to
           | 120km/h.
           | 
           | Are the tracks in terrible shape? Or are they stuck behind
           | freight trains?
        
             | iluvcommunism wrote:
             | They probably have to stop 100 times.
        
             | Ozzie_osman wrote:
             | Multiple stops and possible transfers.
        
             | salamandersauce wrote:
             | My guess? Prioritize freight over people. That's what
             | happens in Canada. Greyhound bus when it was a thing here
             | was considerably faster to go cross country than the train.
        
               | ac29 wrote:
               | Its this. The route from the Bay Area to LA actually
               | starts in Seattle. The route is largely on shared freight
               | tracks. Due to the nature of rail travel, delays compound
               | - if you are delayed at the beginning of the route, you
               | will likely be delayed at many additional points along
               | the route due to missing your scheduled time.
        
             | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
             | Amtrak has some 11 hour routes where they stop at a
             | bazillion towns but most routes are 7-8 hours.
        
               | throwawayboise wrote:
               | I took Amtrak from Chicago to Las Vegas once and it took
               | about 36 hours, after breakdowns, accidents, random
               | delays, etc.
        
           | dnautics wrote:
           | And soloing that's $50-ish in gas in a Prius, maybe $80-ish
           | for a conventional sedan. 80 is competitive to the train
           | fare; when you take into account last mile costs (Muni and
           | bart, la metro); plus in a car you can carpool, cut it half,
           | thirds, or quarters, but public transportation costs scale
           | linearly by passenger.
        
       | AceyMan wrote:
       | I am from Atlanta and went to uni in the Philadelphia area. I
       | was... low-middle class, and we couldn't afford airfare each term
       | for my travels home. (And I still spent Thanksgivings on campus.
       | I know what Matt Damon's character felt like in 'The Martian'...)
       | 
       | I regularly took the Amtrak line to make the route--seventeen
       | hours, including an hour-long stopover in middle of the night for
       | the scheduled locomotion change.
       | 
       | It was one of the best regular experiences of my life and I met
       | some cool and amazing fellow undergraduates from other east coast
       | schools that I kept in touch with for years.
       | 
       | You won't get that driving on the I-95, it goes without saying.
        
         | quadrangle wrote:
         | Train fans will always still take the train, and for good
         | reason (they are a better experience in _some_ ways), but the
         | fundamental issue of whether we can address car traffic and
         | congestion is about whether other forms of transit can be
         | faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQY6WGOoYis and
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1G0Lyh3uik are great overviews
        
         | dnautics wrote:
         | When did you go to college? By the time I went to college, a
         | train ticket (chicago-dc) was more expensive than a plane
         | ticket.
        
         | throwawayboise wrote:
         | Amtrak can be OK as an occasional experience when you don't
         | really care how long it takes to get somewhere. I did it once,
         | and that was enough. For anyone needing to be somewhere on a
         | schedule it is a disaster.
        
           | ardit33 wrote:
           | I take the NYC to Boston all the time, and the experience /
           | service has been good.
           | 
           | I live in NYC and have family in Boston, so Amtrack has been
           | my main mode of transportation. I purposely take the slow
           | train (not the Accela), as it is both cheaper, and easier to
           | work while traveling (restaurant cars).
           | 
           | For people that live in the midwest, I can see how Amtrack is
           | this old rag-tag thing, that serves no purpose, but for the
           | North Eastern Corridor, Amtrack is a life saver.
           | 
           | I wish this country could invest more into rail routes, and
           | make them faster, instead of spending trillion of dollars in
           | sensless wars.
           | 
           | With half of that 2 trillion dollars that we spent on
           | Afghanistan, (and whatever we did in Iraq), we could have had
           | high speed rail in most of the larger cities, at least 10
           | major routes, making it almost a national high speed rail
           | system.
           | 
           | Right now we have 0.
        
             | vagrantJin wrote:
             | Hmm. Interesting.
             | 
             | The US has no intercity trains? Is there a reason? I've
             | always seen the NYC subway in movies and just recklessly
             | assumed all major US cities are connected by rail...which
             | is silly of me in hindsight.
        
               | mastax wrote:
               | The northeast corridor (Boston to DC) is very popular and
               | profitable for Amtrak. They have routes connecting major
               | cities in the rest of the country but they're slow,
               | expensive and unreliable. They're pretty much only ridden
               | by train enthusiasts, people who are very afraid of
               | flying, or banned from flying.
        
               | idunno246 wrote:
               | they exist, but arent really used. the us is much bigger
               | / less dense intercity. going across the coasts is six
               | hour flights but days(4ish i think) by train and
               | significantly more cost, with not many cities in the
               | middle that people stop at. too few people would use so
               | theres no motivation to make it faster. where it works
               | decently well is northeast, because the cities are very
               | close together(dc,philly,nyc,boston). but it's usually
               | much more expensive than driving/bussing and takes
               | roughly the same time.
        
               | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
               | There are a number of reasons:
               | 
               | * For most of the country, cities are really far apart.
               | 
               | * The US has excellent freight rail network. They lease
               | their lines to Amtrak, but they only have secondary
               | priority. Passenger trains often have to wait behind slow
               | freight, or even allow freight trains to pass them.
               | 
               | * After WW2, the US aggressively built the interstate
               | highway system, which simultaneously caused
               | suburbanization and killed intercity passenger rail.
               | 
               | Like the other commenter says, the Northeast Corridor
               | between DC and Boston is an exception, as the cities are
               | closer, and there isn't as much freight traffic, and the
               | highways have a lot of car and truck traffic.
        
           | mulderc wrote:
           | It really depends on the line. I used the cascades line that
           | connects cities in the pacific NW weekly for over a year and
           | my experience is it was much more consistent than driving as
           | the traffic bottlenecks are far less predictable than the
           | Amtrak schedule.
           | 
           | Additionally wifi and beer means I can do a variety of other
           | things I can't while driving.
        
         | missedthecue wrote:
         | Did you go to college in the 1970s? Airfare has been cheaper
         | than the Amtrak ticket for a while now.
        
       | pornel wrote:
       | It's bizarre how U.S. makes driving at 70mph "faster" when the
       | rest of the world has 200mph trains.
        
       | rmason wrote:
       | When they discontinued some of these routes it was cheaper to buy
       | each passenger a first class airline ticket than have them take
       | the train.
       | 
       | I love trains and there are places where cities are close
       | together and if the train went 150 mph or faster where it might
       | make sense. I'd love to see a Cleveland to Detroit to Chicago
       | train for example. But I'm not taking the train if travelling by
       | car was faster, that makes no sense.
       | 
       | We're not more than 5-10 years away from a time where travelling
       | by car could mean sleeping (or working on a laptop) in the back
       | seat until the end of the trip is possible.
        
         | johnday wrote:
         | > We're not more than 5-10 years away from a time where
         | travelling by car could mean sleeping (or working on a laptop)
         | in the back seat until the end of the trip is possible.
         | 
         | There is no reason to think that this is true beyond marketing
         | and sheer optimism.
        
           | ngokevin wrote:
           | It's easy to think it if you take Elon at his word (5 years
           | away in 5 years).
        
             | wonnage wrote:
             | it's amusing that Tesla announced a battery codenamed cold
             | fusion, which is also perpetually 5 years away
        
               | ckemere wrote:
               | *Hot* fusion is perpetually on the horizon. *Cold* fusion
               | most likely doesn't exist.
        
         | BrianOnHN wrote:
         | To your point (I guess the downvotes are representing people's
         | thoughts on Tesla),
         | 
         | Self-driving could still have a major impact like this without
         | being the "fully-autonomous" version. Virtual routes can be
         | developed with negligible infrastructure(sensors) compared to a
         | trains requirements.
         | 
         | However, Amtrak has historically been a socialism that blue-
         | collar towns are OK with participating in, so my guess is that
         | this has more to do with giving government money to those
         | people than solving any real transportation issue.
        
         | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
         | > We're not more than 5-10 years away from a time where
         | travelling by car could mean sleeping (or working on a laptop)
         | 
         | I have a feeling that we might be 5-10 years away for several
         | decades.
        
         | techsupporter wrote:
         | > But I'm not taking the train if travelling by car was faster,
         | that makes no sense.
         | 
         | If you are going purely for minimizing time, all forms of
         | shared transport will be slower than going it alone. A plane
         | trip on a commercial route is slower than getting a private
         | jet, for example.
         | 
         | The difference is in how _much_ additional time the shared
         | option takes, and how the experience varies, especially
         | relative to cost. For an Amtrak cross-country trip measured in
         | days, I agree with you; I won 't ride that (outside of the trip
         | being the reason for the trip) either.
         | 
         | But Amtrak Cascades between Seattle and BC or Portland? I'll
         | definitely take the train for that. I go from downtown to
         | downtown in a bit longer than the time to drive, I don't have
         | to deal with the TSA, I don't have to concentrate on driving
         | myself, I can get food and use the restroom without stopping my
         | trip, and I get a much better seat than on a plane.
         | 
         | If the time comparison is within about 50% extra train versus
         | plane or car, I'm taking the train every time.
        
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