[HN Gopher] Pirating GPL Software
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       Pirating GPL Software
        
       Author : ddtaylor
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2021-09-03 19:03 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krisives.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krisives.github.io)
        
       | wizzwizz4 wrote:
       | But isn't this exactly the same thing Canonical did with Ubuntu?
       | Heck, Mozilla did it for Firefox. All the trademark does is stop
       | people calling the modified version "Elementary OS" - _not_ stop
       | them modifying it.
       | 
       | I was giving the author benefit-of-the-doubt earlier, but this
       | follow-up just seems... petty, if not malicious.
       | 
       | > _Their respective communities seem convinced that you can
       | pirate GPL software, which I find fascinating._
       | 
       | But nowhere do they say it's _illegal_ to do so. They consider
       | the distribution to be _akin to_ illegal piracy, because they
       | consider it the Done Thing to pay for the Pro distros.
        
         | jarcane wrote:
         | Yes, and it was a shit thing when Ubuntu did it too.
         | 
         | Literally drove the creator of Kubuntu out of the project on
         | trumped up bullshit when he wouldn't play along (and also kept
         | asking questions about the 120k of donations that went missing
         | ...)
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | > They consider the distribution to be akin to illegal piracy,
         | because they consider it the Done Thing to pay for the Pro
         | distros.
         | 
         | Regardless of how someone else pays for software doesn't change
         | the rights the GPL affords everyone else.
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | And they still can - just not in that subreddit. (I didn't
           | expect the free speech debate to appear here.)
        
       | MrStonedOne wrote:
       | >Now-a-days Linux distros like elementaryOS and ZorinOS take a
       | different approach to policing the distribution. The main tactic
       | they use now is to control the flow of information on GitHub and
       | social media like Reddit. Both distros have rules on their
       | various subreddits (/r/elementaryos and /r/zorinos) that users
       | cannot post links and sometimes information on how to build your
       | own is removed. If someone builds their own .iso or shares the
       | information to do so, they will have their post deleted and be
       | banned.
       | 
       | >A post submitted to /r/zorinos was acquired by using DHT
       | scraping to find the ZorinOS 16 Pro download. It also verified
       | that the SHA256 sum matched the one on the ZorinOS website which
       | rules out any potential for malicious activity.The post was
       | specifically removed for "software piracy".
       | 
       | ...
       | 
       | >Technically this is not a violation of the GPL because they are
       | allowed to police their various forums however they wish. I am
       | still free to redistribute the software and they have still
       | published their source code changes, but it seems like a strange
       | loophole.
       | 
       | I wonder actually...
       | 
       | Section 10 Paragraph 3 of gplv3[0]:
       | 
       | >You may not impose any further restrictions on the exercise of
       | the rights granted or affirmed under this License.
       | 
       | [0]:https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html
        
         | MrStonedOne wrote:
         | also:
         | 
         | Section 6 subsection d, sentence 3: If the place to copy the
         | object code is a network server, the Corresponding Source may
         | be on a different server (operated by you or a third party)
         | that supports equivalent copying facilities, provided you
         | maintain clear directions next to the object code saying where
         | to find the Corresponding Source. Regardless of what server
         | hosts the Corresponding Source, you remain obligated to ensure
         | that it is available for as long as needed to satisfy these
         | requirements.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | The "you" in this situation is the licensee, i.e. the user.
           | This section means: If I posted my source for a GPL-licensed
           | work solely on Reddit and it is removed, _I_ would be
           | breaking GPL if I didn 't find another place to host it.
           | 
           | The license doesn't apply to the host or anyone who removed
           | my post.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | > of the rights granted or affirmed under this License.
         | 
         | ..is the key phrase. GPL is only an exception to copyright. It
         | gives people the right to be exempt from restrictions that
         | copyright law places on them by default.
         | 
         | It doesn't give anyone the right to use trademarks, participate
         | in the community, or anything else -- because those things were
         | never restricted by copyright law in the first place.
        
       | Grieving wrote:
       | This whole fight is bizarre. Elementary people requested that the
       | author rename his project to avoid confusion in a way that could
       | be interpreted either as friendly or a veiled legal threat. The
       | author was immediately combative, and didn't calm down after
       | multiple clarifications that they were _not_ looking for a fight,
       | legal or otherwise. He responded by doxxing them, and is now
       | attempting to  "expose" them for this.
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | > He responded by doxxing them
         | 
         | Do you mean linking to the publicly filed trademark application
         | with redactions?
        
           | Grieving wrote:
           | It was unredacted when originally posted. I didn't see that
           | the author later changed it. But just because there's a
           | public record of some information doesn't mean it's not a
           | violation of privacy to disseminate it.
        
             | ddtaylor wrote:
             | Wasn't the address to a Elementary, LLC company?
        
       | wmf wrote:
       | This post is pretty bad. Trademarks are healthy for open source
       | to prevent maliciously modified versions (see Firefox and
       | Ubuntu). Also, people won't voluntarily pay for something they
       | can get for free, so trademarks are a good and valid way to
       | monetize open source to make it sustainable (but it has to be
       | done very carefully which some of these examples may not be
       | doing).
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | > Also, people won't voluntarily pay for something they can get
         | for free
         | 
         | The GPL seems to be crafted around this fact:
         | 
         | > With free software, users don't have to pay the distribution
         | fee in order to use the software. They can copy the program
         | from a friend who has a copy, or with the help of a friend who
         | has network access. Or several users can join together, split
         | the price of one CD-ROM, then each in turn can install the
         | software. A high CD-ROM price is not a major obstacle when the
         | software is free.
         | 
         | Source: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | RMS is wrong on this one. You can't come anywhere close to
           | sustaining development on that model.
        
             | ddtaylor wrote:
             | It's possible GPL was the wrong choice of license for all
             | that software in that circumstance. How has Linux managed
             | to survive, isn't it licensed as GPL?
        
               | selfhoster11 wrote:
               | Large corporate contributors are spending resources to
               | keep Linux kernel running, so there's that.
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | Don't these ISOs contain software that isn't GPL? So perhaps the
       | conclusion of this post is misleading, although it makes some
       | interesting observations.
        
       | woah wrote:
       | Does this person not know the difference between copyright and
       | trademark?
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | You mean the author or the elementaryOS people? It's always
         | interesting to see how the parties' interests gets caught up in
         | technical-ish definitions.
        
       | coretx wrote:
       | Shooting at boats at sea is not the same as infringement. There
       | is however different types of infringement and those are
       | different from each other. Addressing these differences and the
       | use of quality language instead of ramblings about "piracy" makes
       | debates and discussions have way more value.
        
       | corty wrote:
       | You can pirate GPL software, but not in the way the article
       | describes: If you copy&paste or otherwise link GPL code to your
       | commercial project and then sell that under a commercial non-GPL
       | license, that is pirating GPL software. E.g. what Nvidia and
       | compiler vendors like Tasking selling expensive GCC ports do.
        
       | kube-system wrote:
       | Copyrights and trademarks are entirely different things.
       | Trademarks have nothing to do with GPL, or the software any of
       | these projects are based on.
       | 
       | > That seems strange that elementaryOS developers would try to
       | deny others the same rights that were essential in allowing them
       | to make and distribute elementaryOS in the first place!
       | 
       | ElementaryOS didn't name their project "Debian".
       | 
       | GPL gives you permission to use _software_ that is copyrighted,
       | it does _not_ affect other forms of IP. The GPL absolutely does
       | _not_ give you the right to use trademarks or patents -- even if
       | they are embedded within those same projects.
       | 
       | See: CentOS/RHEL.
        
         | ddtaylor wrote:
         | > ElementaryOS didn't name their project "Debian".
         | 
         | Is the vast majority of the elementaryOS distribution from
         | Debian/Ubuntu upstream?
         | 
         | > The GPL absolutely does not give you the right to use
         | trademarks or patents
         | 
         | The GPL does give users the right to verbatim copy works as
         | they were originally distributed.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | > The GPL does give users the right to verbatim copy works as
           | they were originally distributed.
           | 
           | Yes. This is true...as it pertains to copyright. The GPL does
           | not convey any other rights, including trademark, patents,
           | the right to sleep on Torvald's couch, or anything else. If
           | something is not copyrightable, it cannot be licensed with
           | GPL.
           | 
           | Names cannot be copyrighted. They are covered by trademark
           | law, which GPL does not address... because it is a
           | _copyright_ license.
        
             | ddtaylor wrote:
             | https://google.github.io/opencasebook/trademarks/#gnu-
             | gpl-v3
             | 
             | They would need to provide this kind of additional text in
             | their license, but they did not.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-03 23:03 UTC)