[HN Gopher] Amazon's answer to delivery driver shortage: Pot smo...
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       Amazon's answer to delivery driver shortage: Pot smokers
        
       Author : numo16
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2021-09-03 12:12 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.latimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.latimes.com)
        
       | da_big_ghey wrote:
       | Well I am all in favor of legalizeing, but there is side effect:
       | those who are smoking in public, cigarette but especially pot,
       | must have harsh consequence. I go to some place in US and it is
       | stinking everywhere on public streets. People can not force
       | everybody to inhale their drug fume only because they want their
       | high.
       | 
       | Edit for clarifying: maybe a $200 fine is good point for
       | starting, go up to $500 with repeating. I also think many smoker
       | drop cigarette butts and we need greater fine for that if it will
       | stop.
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | If by "harsh consequences" you mean a $20 fine for smoking
         | pot/cigarettes/cigars in a crowded public places I guess maybe.
         | If you're proposing locking people up that seems a bit extreme.
        
         | pitched wrote:
         | Just out of curiosity and this isn't meant to be mean, but,
         | what kind of harsh consequence do you think would be
         | appropriate for imposing that smell?
        
           | koheripbal wrote:
           | Not gp, but I think a fine is pretty reasonable.
           | 
           | Jogging in the park and inhaling pot constantly is getting
           | really annoying. I know a number of families that moved to
           | the burbs, and one of the reasons they voiced is the sharp
           | increase is pot smell/smoke in the kids' playgrounds.
        
             | wordsarelies wrote:
             | This is no doubt an unintended consequence of city
             | ordinances/state laws that require you be X feet away from
             | others. Where the fuck-else can you go other than a public
             | place if you live in the city and have no yard?
        
             | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
             | Joggers in parks are also annoying. Run in the woods,
             | forest.
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | Where do you draw the line though? Body odor isn't pleasant
             | neither is bad breath or alcohol breath. Are you suggesting
             | a fine for those as well?
        
         | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
         | Harsh? Like caning, or what?
         | 
         | Do you fart in public? Should your butt be plugged in public
         | too?
        
         | deadbunny wrote:
         | Hey, we wouldn't have to stand around outside if the busybodies
         | hadn't stopped us lighting up in bars.
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | I'm with you on the fines. It's about as pleasant as snooting
         | up someone else's bowel contents on a train.
         | 
         | It is antisocial behaviour, has a health impact and needs to
         | have a consequence.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | Hopefully somebody introduces this. Weed stinks and people who
         | smoke it outdoors are as much a nuisance as people who smoke
         | cigarettes. Both should be legal but banned from any public
         | places.
        
           | ralfn wrote:
           | To be consistent we would have to ban cars for the same
           | reason too. At least near where people live or work.
        
             | threatofrain wrote:
             | No, cars and cigarettes are known to cause far more
             | substantial health effects to those around. By what
             | instinct does one find oneself tempted to compare bad smell
             | to cancer and asthma?
        
             | cassianoleal wrote:
             | Also many perfumes and colognes. Some can be incredibly
             | overwhelming.
        
       | canti wrote:
       | As marijuana becomes increasingly legalized, I'm not sure why any
       | company would continue to test for it, other than maybe using
       | saliva tests to make sure workers aren't getting high on the job.
        
         | AmericanChopper wrote:
         | From a safety point of view, it's difficult to test for
         | marijuana intoxication. There's a simple test any employer
         | could do to test whether their forklift driver is drunk right
         | now. The best a marijuana simple marijuana test can do is
         | whether you've had it in the past few days.
        
           | canti wrote:
           | You make a decent point. This is why I mentioned a saliva
           | test, but in truth I'm not sure how effective it is.
           | Anecdotally, I can tell you I once smoked at night before bed
           | and passed a saliva test the next morning.
        
             | AmericanChopper wrote:
             | I believe they do that for police roadside tests in
             | Australia. From what I can gather they have a rather bad
             | reputation for not correlating very well with intoxication.
             | 
             | BAC is a well understood thing to measure, but marijuana
             | testing seems pretty unreliable to me. I've read
             | conflicting reports about how strongly TCH found on a
             | saliva swap correlates to actual intoxication, and I don't
             | believe there's been much scientific investigation done to
             | determine what levels of intoxication are safe for what
             | activities. As the primary customers of these products are
             | law enforcement, and private sector "rules enforcement",
             | I'll remain skeptical of them until somebody manages to
             | convince me otherwise.
        
       | southpawflo wrote:
       | after all, what's the difference between a drunk driver and a
       | stoner driver?
       | 
       | the drunk driver runs the red light, and the stoner keeps waiting
       | for the stop sign to turn green!
        
       | jack_riminton wrote:
       | I wonder if they'll eventually introduce some sort of sobriety or
       | reaction-time test on their phone apps to see if you're in a
       | state to drive
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20210903083804/https://www.latime...
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | I'm guessing they can do this because they're big enough to push
       | back on insurance requirements.
       | 
       | The drug testing requirement for delivery drivers isn't
       | necessarily a moral imperative from management. It's a condition
       | of their insurance requirements. The article touches on this:
       | 
       | > Other delivery companies are continuing to screen applicants,
       | concerned about the insurance and liability implications in the
       | many states where weed use remains illegal.
        
         | didgeoridoo wrote:
         | Or perhaps they are underwriting their own insurance. Once
         | companies get big enough, it makes more sense for them to hold
         | onto the premiums themselves and just pay an insurance company
         | to administer the paperwork.
        
       | BEEdwards wrote:
       | Other places that don't' drug test and you'll probably be paid
       | better and not work in sweatshop like conditions - most office
       | jobs...
        
       | hughrr wrote:
       | I can't wait for Amazon to deliver a van through my fence.
        
         | paulie4542 wrote:
         | Or some kids crossing a street.
        
           | throwaway287391 wrote:
           | It's a good thing they screen applicants to make sure none of
           | them have used alcohol in the last month. Imagine -- hiring
           | someone who _drinks alcohol_ for a driving job. The
           | irresponsibility would be truly unthinkable.
        
           | eurasiantiger wrote:
           | Rationality has left the building.
        
             | richrichardsson wrote:
             | Why don't you want to think of the children?
        
               | tartoran wrote:
               | How about not feeding children with junk food at school
               | cafeterias? How about providing them with real education
               | rather than learning to pass tests? How about not priming
               | and bombarding children with advertising? The list goes
               | on, there's a lot of work to do.
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | Why don't you want to think of the most realistic risks
               | to children, but choose to perpetrate stereotypes and
               | myths based on 19th century racist propaganda?
        
               | nuclearnice1 wrote:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | I was continuing the facetiousness :/
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | There's a difference between recreational use and driving under
         | the influence.
        
           | hughrr wrote:
           | I haven't met someone who knows that yet.
        
             | sp332 wrote:
             | You haven't _noticed_ meeting the ones who do.
        
               | hughrr wrote:
               | But statistically the number of people who don't know is
               | enough to cause untold despair, injury, death and
               | sadness. So fuck anyone for having the self propelled
               | arrogance to make that decision on behalf of victims.
        
         | Horticulture wrote:
         | Right, because anybody who consumes cannabis must be doing it
         | all the time and willing to drive under the influence.
        
           | hughrr wrote:
           | Some do. The guy who left his car upside down in my front
           | garden after rolling the car through my fence ended up being
           | prosecuted for it.
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | Good. I'm not condoning driving while the influence but why
             | should we put the occasional, the one puffer before going
             | to bed or the responsible pot smoker in the same box with
             | the irresponsible abusers?
        
       | samizdis wrote:
       | I'm not sure how one might reliably assess/assert impairment for
       | a cannabis user. Traces can last for weeks and result in positive
       | tests (blood analysis), even if the user isn't remotely stoned at
       | the time. Don't know whether there's a breath test nowadays that
       | indicates use in the past n hours, which might give a better idea
       | of likely impairment.
        
         | nmstoker wrote:
         | It's not an idea I've explored seriously in any depth, but it
         | seems like testing for capabilities required for a specific
         | task might be a way to go here over actual drug tests.
         | 
         | Thus if it's determined that people need a certain reaction
         | time to drive safely, that could be one thing tested.
         | 
         | Clearly setting the levels and the particular capabilities
         | might well be contentious, but by aligning the test(s) with
         | what's needed for the task it's fairer and in certain ways more
         | robust: for instance, you could be under the threshold for
         | alcohol/cannabis but if you combine that with legal medicines
         | that cause drowsiness or simply happen to be extremely sleep
         | deprived, you might pass a traditional test but the combined
         | effects would lead one to fail a capability test.
         | 
         | It also helps in other ways too, such as fairly treating older
         | people - you might be a sharp 75 year old and yet come up
         | against some age limit. This let's you continue so long as you
         | maintain the capabilities. Then if things start to change it's
         | clear and takes some of the awkwardness out of the discussion
         | about whether one is still fit for a job.
         | 
         | Of course the risk is that people are pseudoscientific or
         | arbitrary in setting the capabilities to a level that doesn't
         | align. We've all seen the unrealistic hiring prerequisites that
         | managers ask for if left to decide (must have ten years
         | experience of XYZ!) In the wrong hands these could be used
         | unfairly (eg setting totally unrealistic levels precisely to
         | screen out groups they don't want).
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | "Several meta-analyses of multiple studies found that the
           | risk of being involved in a crash significantly increased
           | after marijuana use13--in a few cases, the risk doubled or
           | more than doubled.14-16 However, a large case-control study
           | conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety
           | Administration found no significant increased crash risk
           | attributable to cannabis after controlling for drivers' age,
           | gender, race, and presence of alcohol."
           | 
           | from https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-
           | reports/mari...
           | 
           | I wonder how much marijuana actually contributes to crashes.
           | I think people can certainly get too high to drive, but
           | unlike alcohol which lowers inhibitions, being 'too high'
           | could even increase inhibitions somewhat (more anxiety,
           | paranoia), so I'd expect people too high to drive are much
           | less likely to get behind the wheel than drunk people. I
           | certainly buy that 0.1% BAC + marijuana is probably worse
           | than 0.1% BAC alone, but I'm curious what a just legal limit
           | would be in comparison to 0.08% BAC regulations. What BTHCC
           | produces equivalent impairment to 0.08% BAC, and how does
           | that interact with THC tolerance?
           | 
           | Are people who consume thc multiple times per day worse
           | drivers than people who never consume thc, when both groups
           | are sober? I'd imagine there is a tolerance effect where
           | stoned frequent-users are better drivers than stoned
           | infrequent-users.
           | 
           | Would be interesting to try to make a cabinet arcade-style
           | driving game that would accurately predict actual-road
           | driving ability. Could even be used as a tool to demonstrate
           | the dangers of drunk driving by putting it into bars and
           | letting people try when above the legal limit (definitely
           | some dangers of giving people good scores when they perform
           | well while drunk though...)
        
       | indymike wrote:
       | My company fixes recruiting process and software problems. Hats
       | off to Amazon for this. I probably have the pot smoker
       | conversation about once a month, usually with a 50-something or
       | older executive that is running a factory short-staffed.
       | 
       | Pot is radioactive for many employers because insurance discounts
       | and employment regulations are stuck in the "Refer Madness" era
       | (Refer Madness was a propaganda film about the dangers of pot).
       | So, employers face two surprises: increasing liability, workers
       | comp and other insurance AND potentially, "hi we're from a
       | government agency and under regulation XYZ 202 sub paragraph
       | 293888 you need to drug test and immediately fire those that
       | flunk or we will fine you. Have a happy day!"
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | > 50-something or older executive
         | 
         | Do you mean to imply or assume that 50-somethings are
         | unfamiliar with marijuana? It was already common for Baby
         | Boomers, who are older than that.
         | 
         | What happens is that open-minded, pot-smoking 20-somethings
         | think 50-somethings are close-minded and ignorant. Then 30
         | years later many of those 20-somethings are the exact same as
         | their predecessors. Instead of dismissing the older generation,
         | the 20-somethings might consider how they will avoid that fate.
        
           | mLuby wrote:
           | > My company fixes recruiting process and software problems.
           | Hats off to Amazon for this. I probably have the pot smoker
           | conversation about once a month, usually with a 50-something
           | or older executive that is running a factory short-staffed.
           | 
           | Reading between the lines, the exec is _trying_ to hire more
           | workers for their factory, and wants to know if they can
           | _stop_ testing for marijuana so they 'll be able to hire more
           | workers. To which the poster, who has recurring experience
           | with this issue, must (unfortunately) recommend against it
           | because of the reasons they enumerate.
           | 
           | Or maybe it was just a close-minded, ignorant ageist comment.
           | Better to assume positive intent though.
        
             | wolverine876 wrote:
             | I asked, I didn't assume anything.
        
       | jack_riminton wrote:
       | Some of the comments are assuming that all those who smoke pot
       | are irresponsible or unable to do a job if they do smoke pot
       | (this includes people who may only smoke at weekends/parties btw)
        
         | samstave wrote:
         | Some of the smartest people I have worked with smoked pot daily
         | and before work. one is a head of engineering at netflix,
         | another a head of IT at a big firm...
         | 
         | some of the highest performers I have ever worked with, and pot
         | was a daily for them.
        
           | abledon wrote:
           | i think for a small % pot will have a positive impact, but in
           | general there is a reason it is considered a recreational
           | drug. If you put 1000 linux kernel developers in a stadium,
           | do they do better work sober, or if the stadium is hotboxed
           | with some exotic kush. (maybe 5%, 10% see gains... but does
           | the majority receive buffs to their concentration, analytical
           | skills and memory?)
           | 
           | Maybe the question has a different outcome if you're
           | measuring a stadium full of Designers with Adobe Illustrator
           | open, trying to brainstorm how a logo looks?
        
           | bjourne wrote:
           | And many top politicians, business executives, authors,
           | producers, and musicians were alcoholics. Your claim of
           | having met high performing pot smokers is meaningless.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | A larger portion of them are from experience of hiring and
         | being around people who smoke it. I would not employ someone
         | who does because of those people. I have horror stories a mile
         | long.
         | 
         | I know this is unpopular on internet news sites but I assure
         | you that your social reputation isn't that great if you smoke
         | the stuff generally and that's not going to change because of
         | the propensity of people to be unreliable or dicks. The only
         | thing that's faulty is your perception of it.
        
           | eurasiantiger wrote:
           | Hmm. This is a tough one. Do you think those people come off
           | unreliable because they use cannabis, or would it be more
           | likely that they, for example, suffer from a(n undiagnosed)
           | medical condition such as PTSD or ADHD, which tend to make
           | them a bit unreliable at times, but which cannabis treats so
           | that the person is in fact more reliable when constantly
           | high?
        
             | hughrr wrote:
             | I knew some of them before they started using it. It's
             | almost entirely the cannabis. Including the dude now in
             | psychiatric care after it kicked his schizophrenia hard.
             | 
             | Everyone was promoted it as harmless. It's not. I'm seeing
             | lives wrecked.
             | 
             | And yes I know alcohol is bad. But I see less long term
             | damage from that as most people seem to grow out of
             | alcoholism I have know. Cannabis not so much - it becomes
             | the primary thing they live for and around. All
             | conversation ends up on it.
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | I think your viewpoint might be biased -- do you know any
               | people who haven't had their lives wrecked because of
               | cannabis?
               | 
               | Is cannabis legal where you live? Criminality causes
               | stress and paranoia.
               | 
               | Are you living in a heavily Christian environment? Asking
               | because in heavily religious environments, schizophrenia
               | with religious illusions often occurs as a result of
               | internal conflict between sin-programming and self-
               | perception.
               | 
               | Is cannabis socially accepted or are people forced to
               | choose between cannabis and other people? Social
               | exclusion has in some studies been ranked more stressful
               | than getting raped, so some sort of social PTSD can be
               | expected to develop in these kind of environments to
               | those who get excluded.
        
               | hughrr wrote:
               | I am in my late 40s. Most of the proponents are a lot
               | younger. They haven't seen the impact it has on them
               | until they get older. That's not bias.
               | 
               | As for other points I'm an atheist with zero religious
               | values at all. I have used it myself as well. And I'm in
               | a country in a city where no one gives a crap. I'm about
               | as unbiased as you can get.
               | 
               | As for sins, I'm a pretty big fan of them as whole.
               | 
               | The issue here is with the perception that it is harmless
               | which it is definitely not.
        
               | wordsarelies wrote:
               | Do something that alters your baseline consciousness long
               | enough and it becomes your baseline. Doing anything over
               | a long period of time with regularity will change you.
               | 
               | You have definitely met pot smokers who have, and do live
               | perfectly normal lives because their baseline is better.
               | You probably have no idea who they are.
        
               | hughrr wrote:
               | My nose says otherwise.
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | It is also very possible for cannabis to be an
               | improvement to the baseline. There are many, many people
               | who could not function in society and work for their
               | living without cannabis, be it due to MS-related
               | spasticity, PTSD-related hypervigilance, ADHD-related
               | need for stimulation, autoimmune-related inflammation,
               | difficult to treat eating disorders such as anorexia and
               | ARFID, or just plain old chronic pain -- and about about
               | it not working for pain, it does work for some, why
               | should they be denied?
        
           | crazy_horse wrote:
           | There are lots of people you don't know that smoke pot
           | regularly and you can't tell. I promise you.
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | Yes there are but they probably aren't very high, they're
             | most likely toking as in slightly buzzed if we were
             | comparing it alcohol. I guess you'd notice drunk people and
             | you'd notice very high pot smokers. But would you mind a
             | coworker having a glass of wine for lunch?
             | 
             | There are long term pot smokers whose intake is very large
             | but whose tolerance has risen such that when they consume
             | they're quite functional. They are usually easy to spot
             | though...
        
         | oxymoran wrote:
         | And also clearly have never been high enough to realize that
         | they are more likely to be super paranoid and going 10 miles
         | under the speed limit than driving through a fence or running
         | over children. It's not at all comparable to being drunk.
        
           | bserge wrote:
           | No, please. I've seen high driving first hand several times.
           | Once after the guy literally told me "it doesn't affect me at
           | all". Proceeded to drive over the kerb and get into the wrong
           | lane.
           | 
           | It is _very_ comparable to being drunk. Some people _can_ in
           | fact handle it, many cannot and severely overestimate their
           | abilities.
        
             | fhood wrote:
             | tbf it's possible he was just a crap driver. Either way,
             | while I would never recommend it, I think it is misleading
             | to call it "very comparable". Anecdotally I would say that
             | cannabis impairs quick decision making, and reaction time
             | while driving, and possibly also makes the driver more
             | prone to distraction but I am less sure about that one.
             | Alcohol does both of the first two things, and to a much
             | greater extent, while also obliterating fine motor control,
             | as well as impacting judgement and perception of speed
             | among other things.
             | 
             | So in my completely anecdotal opinion, weed bad, alcohol
             | worse were driving is concerned.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | hughrr wrote:
           | That's bullshit. Someone rolled their car into my front
           | garden at 70+ mph in a 30 mph limit on it.
           | 
           | The only good thing was it was at 3AM so there was no one
           | around on a normally busy street to get wiped out.
           | 
           | And your whole attitude of irrational justification of it
           | says you're probably not capable of making a rational
           | judgement about whether or not you should drive.
        
             | eurasiantiger wrote:
             | Anecdote is not data.
        
               | hughrr wrote:
               | That's also bullshit. This went into the stats here. Thus
               | is data.
        
               | haswell wrote:
               | Since when is asking for data considered bullshit? So
               | far, you've only provided anecdotes.
               | 
               | I assume you know what the parent comment meant when
               | talking about "data".
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong - no one should drive while impaired,
               | period. But offering anecdotes in lieu of data is
               | generally not helpful.
        
             | quickthrowman wrote:
             | It was 3 AM, they were drunk
        
               | hughrr wrote:
               | No they weren't. Apologists everywhere.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | Your comment is an equally bad generalization.
           | 
           | It's easy to get distracted and then focus on that
           | distraction while high. That's not conducive to safe driving.
           | We don't want people mindlessly blowing through an
           | intersection because they were fixating on how the wind was
           | making the tarp on the truck in front of them flutter.
        
           | JshWright wrote:
           | Driving high is still driving impaired. The failure modes may
           | be different, but that doesn't mean someone who is high is
           | safe to drive.
           | 
           | I'm not sure what the point of your comment is though, as I
           | don't think anyone is suggesting that these drivers will
           | actually be high while driving. Rather, they are people that
           | use marijuana recreationally and would test positive for THC,
           | disqualifying them from many jobs (despite the fact that
           | urine THC levels do not corelate with how "high" someone is).
        
             | wordsarelies wrote:
             | Driving high is like driving as a grandma.
             | 
             | You're hyper vigilant, looking everywhere, your reactions
             | are delayed a little such as that of an 60 year old person,
             | and you're definitely listening to speed "limit" as the
             | maximum, and not as the average.
        
               | bserge wrote:
               | Yes that third one is a huge problem.
        
               | batch12 wrote:
               | When high, you are impaired and shouldn't be driving.
               | Period.
        
               | crazy_horse wrote:
               | I don't disagree but being high is not a singular,
               | impaired state.
        
         | eurasiantiger wrote:
         | Decades of exposure to intentionally misleading propaganda is
         | difficult to ignore. It becomes a part of the worldview, making
         | it hard to even think outside that box.
        
           | JoeAltmaier wrote:
           | True. But some part of that propaganda is from pot smokers
           | themselves. Some enjoy the image of the laid-back happy
           | carefree pothead. Their cult leaders (used to be) Cheech and
           | Chong.
           | 
           | Maybe they've just bought in to someone elses' worldview. But
           | I don't think so.
        
             | ralfn wrote:
             | There are a lot more people that do or have smoked pot,
             | than those who base their identity on it. The cults were
             | always a minority.
             | 
             | It's like the difference between a commuter on bike here in
             | the Netherlands (more than 30% of all trips) vs the handful
             | of cyclists in spandex with some fragile unsafe bike
             | wanking about how light their bike is.
             | 
             | One is a cult, where it becomes part of someone's identity,
             | one is just person trying to get to work.
             | 
             | We should have the discipline to realize that the people
             | carrying the flag of anything are the least likely to be
             | true representatives of the thing.
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | I'm willing to bet that the annoyance meme of spandex
               | cyclists is intentionally amplified, possibly even
               | created, by marketing agencies working for oil and car
               | companies.
               | 
               | I'm also willing to bet that Cheech & Chong et al. are
               | manifestations of a similarly forced meme, with many
               | industries funding the various "lazy brainless stoners".
               | 
               | The exact same pattern can be found from nicotine vapes
               | (the entire "vape nation" annoyance meme was definitely a
               | graft), and probably a lot of other things.
               | 
               | The point seems to be to control people socially by
               | associating their habits with annoying qualities and
               | fictional negative outcomes, superficially supported by
               | anecdotes represented as scientific truth.
        
           | da_big_ghey wrote:
           | Well no, there are serious health risk associated with weed.
           | Maybe alcohol have them too, yes both deserve legality, but
           | this is not to say it is "safe", especially in young.
        
             | dls2016 wrote:
             | "Maybe" alcohol has health consequences? Like 95,000 deaths
             | per year?
        
               | da_big_ghey wrote:
               | Absolutely, i more made reference to how when somebody
               | mention health impact of weed somebody else say
               | "whatabout alcohol unhealthiness" as though it is
               | relevant.
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | Of course it is relevant. Many of those 95,000 annual
               | deaths would be preventable if a good variety of quality
               | cannabis was more widely available and its use was more
               | socially acceptable.
               | 
               | I also believe such a paradigm shift would largely
               | eradicate domestic violence.
        
               | crazy_horse wrote:
               | I had a grandfather die of alcoholism. I'd much rather
               | smoke pot than drink alcohol and long term it's almost
               | certainly safer from what we can tell.
               | 
               | It's also hard to be productive drinking but pot can have
               | the opposite effect.
        
             | kodah wrote:
             | There are health risks associated with THC:
             | 
             | - the possibility of psychosis or schizophrenia in people
             | 16-35 (https://medicine.yale.edu/psychiatry/step/resources/
             | Cannabis...)
             | 
             | - the same risk that inhaling any combustible has
             | 
             | - overeating
             | 
             | - cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (https://www.cedars-
             | sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-con...)
             | 
             | For some people the benefits outweigh the risks, especially
             | when practiced in moderation.
        
           | jack_riminton wrote:
           | True. Once things become 'cultural facts' they're hard to
           | change. Another is explaining remote work to older
           | generations, a lot of them just can't equate it to 'real
           | work'
        
             | nuclearnice1 wrote:
             | One more is explaining age discrimination to youngsters.
             | 
             | Especially over the damn zoom time video since they don't
             | show up for work.
        
               | mazamats wrote:
               | Age discrimination goes both ways, it's not just 40+
               | workers that experience it
        
               | ctvo wrote:
               | You're on a tech focus site here.
               | 
               | Age discrimination almost certainly goes one way in these
               | cases. That's if you're above 40, and looking to join an
               | early stage start-up, you'll find you're often not a
               | culture fit.
        
               | nuclearnice1 wrote:
               | I agree.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | We don't regulate alcohol use, and it's quite a lot more
         | destructive for some. I don't get the specific puritanism for
         | pot.
         | 
         | Edit: Regulate as in drug testing for past use in an employment
         | context, like what the story is talking about.
        
           | phh wrote:
           | I think you have it upside-down. It's tobacco and alcohol
           | that have special treatment, not pot.
           | 
           | My main guess for that special treatment is merely that
           | tobacco and alcohol were global when we started taking care
           | about global health issues, so we left them, but banned any
           | newcomer
        
             | eurasiantiger wrote:
             | There are plenty of psychoactive substances on the shelves
             | of any major supermarket and most of the stuff is
             | completely unregulated.
             | 
             | How is coffee different from tobacco? How is nutmeg or
             | saffron different from drugs? How about artificial
             | flavonoid--xanthine concoctions such as Red Bull?
        
               | Cederfjard wrote:
               | > How is coffee different from tobacco?
               | 
               | The difference in effect on health is severe, for one?
               | There's room for more nuance than "both of these are
               | psychoactive substances".
        
           | bjourne wrote:
           | But we do regulate alcohol use... Severely...
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | I did clarify with the edit.
        
             | josefresco wrote:
             | I'm not aware of many jobs that "drug" test for _any_ use
             | of alcohol. Yet with cannabis this is considered
             | acceptable.
        
               | josephcsible wrote:
               | Cannabis is a Schedule I drug. Alcohol is not.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | Breathalyzers tests are a thing you know.
           | 
           | And I don't know if companies do it but I know that
           | monitoring Gamma GT levels of suspected alcoholics is a
           | thing. It is a problem for those who have naturally elevated
           | levels btw.
           | 
           | What is unfortunate is that we don't have a good test for
           | cannabis-related impairment. It is quite reliable for alcohol
           | BAC is easy to test and correlates with impairment, but for
           | cannabis, you don't really know if a person is completely
           | stoned or if he has sobered up.
           | 
           | But yeah, cannabis use is less tolerated than alcohol use,
           | cultural reasons I guess. Plus, it is really difficult to
           | control alcohol since pretty much anyone can turn staple food
           | into alcohol at home.
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | Yeah, I tried to cover that with "past use". They care if
             | you're drunk at work. Which is different from pot, where
             | many workplaces care if you're high at home.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | >We don't regulate alcohol use,
           | 
           | Yes we do. And it's a cash cow for the government so we're
           | unlikely to stop anytime soon.
        
           | jack_riminton wrote:
           | Which country are you in?
           | 
           | Alcohol is one of the most highly regulated substances on the
           | planet.
           | 
           | Also, no puritanism here, just facts about how people can use
           | pot and remain completely in control (again, worth pointing
           | out that someone can fail a pot drug test if they smoked it
           | weeks ago)
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | Meaning most people can drink alcohol without fear of being
             | tested for past use in a work context. We don't regulate it
             | in the workplace the way we regulate pot use.
        
               | JoeAltmaier wrote:
               | I dunno. Background checks include DUIs.
        
               | quickthrowman wrote:
               | Every alcohol consumer has a DUI? Maybe in Wisconsin, but
               | not in general
        
               | selestify wrote:
               | You don't get a DUI just for being drunk on the couch on
               | the weekend, you have to also be operating a vehicle
               | while drunk. Which is what the parent comment was talking
               | about -- it's not regulated in the same way that pot
               | usage is.
        
       | zxcvbn4038 wrote:
       | I'm keeping my camera ready for when Snoop Dogg brings me my
       | package.
        
         | jack_riminton wrote:
         | When did HN start having such low quality comments?
        
           | zxcvbn4038 wrote:
           | What sort of intellectual dialog and witty repartee did you
           | expect? I'm pretty sure that the guy at Amazon who decided to
           | hire the potheads isn't going to win a Nobel.
        
             | jack_riminton wrote:
             | A debate about drug classification? An insight with data or
             | maybe even an intelligent anecdote about the travails of
             | hiring in modern day USA?
             | 
             | Your comment wouldn't even get points on Reddit, it might
             | get a "lol" on twitter
        
               | wolverine876 wrote:
               | Agreed. I see almost no intellectual curiosity and learn
               | little these days. I'm only here because I hope it might
               | change again.
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | People who live in glass houses and all.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28338633
        
             | wutbrodo wrote:
             | I'm genuinely confused by this comment. Can you explain why
             | you think speculation about the hardware costs of Waymo
             | robotaxi is at all related to a complaint about silly jokes
             | on HN?
        
       | new_guy wrote:
       | How about just having decent working conditions and paying a
       | living wage? Amazon is cancer.
        
         | missedthecue wrote:
         | $15/hr is what populist politicians have been calling a living
         | wage. What do you think they should pay?
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Those are also good ideas, but you don't have to exclude pot
         | smokers in order to implement them.
        
       | honksillet wrote:
       | One underappreciated aspect of this. They will ignore marijuana
       | at time of hire. But they will absolutely test you if there is
       | ever an accident or if you are injured at work (even if you just
       | strain your back picking up a heavy object) before you see an
       | occupational health doctor. If you come back positive in the
       | course of injury, they won't cover your workers compensation
       | bills. They'll fire you (for being intoxicated) and you'll have
       | to cover your own medical expenses without access to workers comp
       | coverage or the emoyee health plan (because you've been fired).
        
         | bserge wrote:
         | Take full advantage of the system. Smart. These people might
         | never suffer no matter what changes, unless maybe there's some
         | sort of purge.
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | _boost the number of job applicants by as much as 400%_
       | 
       | Anybody else think they meant 420% ?
        
       | KingMachiavelli wrote:
       | Damn, I always forget that drug testing is still a thing.
       | 
       | If you were under the impression that Amazon & other companies
       | are actually screening for cannabis use, you should realize that
       | in any legal state they basically did everything they could to
       | make sure their employees would not test positive. It's extremely
       | hard to find people that would work minimum wage and are
       | completely weed/drug free - especially if you need young,
       | physically fit workers. Having higher turnover because you have
       | to fire people after a while because of a drug test just means
       | you have less experienced drivers.
       | 
       | It's funny that, as the article points out, school bus driver
       | jobs would outbid Amazon since that means that schools are having
       | the same issue but really have no choice when it comes to drug
       | testing and are generally more restrictive.
        
       | outside1234 wrote:
       | This company is just a nightmare. Seriously, do we really need
       | more folks that smoke pot on the road?
        
         | batch12 wrote:
         | > Seriously, do we really need more folks that smoke pot on the
         | road?
         | 
         | Who cares if they smoke pot when not working. We don't need
         | high/impaired people on the road.
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | The hell kind of comment is this? Would you ask, "Do we really
         | need more folks who drink beer on the road?"
         | 
         | As long as they're not high/drunk when they're working, what's
         | the issue?
        
       | Shadonototro wrote:
       | drug addicts who are willing to work like slaves with crappy
       | salary only because they are so high to even reason about it
       | 
       | not to mention the security risk
       | 
       | nice society!
        
         | jack_riminton wrote:
         | Pot smokers are worlds apart from 'drug addicts', which i
         | presume you're equating with opiates or other highly physically
         | addictive substances
        
           | Shadonototro wrote:
           | yeap, so MURICA can legalize it first, secures the market,
           | lobby "allies" into legalizing too, so it can become a global
           | giant
           | 
           | can't you see already the propaganda, the pro-'canabis' all
           | around the world?
           | 
           | a drug is a drug, my dear friend
           | 
           | i seen many "pot" smoker in high school, they couldn't even
           | concentrate properly during tests, they all failed miserable
           | at society
           | 
           | look, some even are being grabbed by amazon because nobody
           | wants to work like a slave anymore, only pot smokers! who
           | would have guessed!
        
             | jack_riminton wrote:
             | A 'drug' is whatever the law dictates is a 'drug'
             | 
             | There's no reason why alcohol shouldn't be considered more
             | dangerous than pot, especially considering the amount of
             | road deaths it causes
        
             | the_only_law wrote:
             | > a drug is a drug, my dear friend
             | 
             | Surely then, there's no difference between ibuprofen and
             | fentanyl. After all, a drug is a drug.
        
               | Shadonototro wrote:
               | yeap, that is why they specifically say:
               | 
               | > Ibuprofen can cause blurred vision, drowsiness, and
               | dizziness. Do not drive or operate heavy machinery until
               | you know how ibuprofen affects you
        
               | Shadonototro wrote:
               | i got downvoted for specifying a fact, i now understand
               | why certain things gets to the frontpage ;)
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | And now you're getting downvoted for passive-aggressively
               | complaining about downvotes. You can get downvoted for
               | almost anything if you work at it.
        
               | Shadonototro wrote:
               | that's democracy right; 2 people get to choose what is
               | the truth and what deserve to be hidden or censored
               | 
               | propaganda is fine, as long as portfolio grows
        
               | the_only_law wrote:
               | Sounds like we need to start piss testing workers to make
               | sure we aren't hiring any ibuprofen junkies then.
        
             | wutbrodo wrote:
             | > a drug is a drug, my dear friend
             | 
             | I don't think even you believe this, unless you're willing
             | to bite the bullet of alcohol and coffee prohibition?
             | They're the most central, widely-used drugs in the world,
             | and after all, "a drug is a drug".
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | What an archaic and backwards viewpoint. Any state in the
             | US where pot is legal, you can find plenty of responsible
             | weed users, the same way you can find people who drink
             | alcohol responsibly anywhere.
        
           | Shadonototro wrote:
           | show me your portfolio ;)
        
       | black_13 wrote:
       | Recruit the undead
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | The money quote:
       | 
       |  _Other delivery companies are continuing to screen applicants,
       | concerned about the insurance and liability implications in the
       | many states where weed use remains illegal. [...]
       | 
       | "If one of my drivers crashes and kills someone and tests
       | positive for marijuana, that's my problem, not Amazon's," said
       | one_
       | 
       | Amazon is just looking out for Number One and to hell with their
       | so-called "partners." This isn't anything new.
       | 
       | If I were an ADA prosecuting such a case, I'd charge Amazon as a
       | co-conspirator.
        
       | tyrfing wrote:
       | One large brown delivery company also rarely drug tests. Drivers
       | of school buses, semi trucks, and similar have federally mandated
       | drug testing, non-CDL delivery drivers don't. Particularly when
       | liability is transferred to contractors, the surprising part is
       | that this wasn't the encouraged policy from the start.
       | 
       | Also, any shortage is entirely self inflicted from offering poor
       | wages.
        
       | loudmax wrote:
       | Amazon's delivery time targets are more likely to cause accidents
       | than employing pot smokers. As long as their drivers are sober
       | while they're driving, what they do on their own time shouldn't
       | be a problem. What's likely to cause accidents is incentivizing
       | drivers to ignore stop signs and run red lights so they can meet
       | their delivery target metrics.
        
       | mynegation wrote:
       | Of course Amazon is watching out for their business interest, but
       | they are doing the morally right thing here.
       | 
       | I do not smoke anything as a personal preference and do not enjoy
       | when second-hand smoke and smell affects me but I support
       | legalization for the simple reason that criminalization of
       | marijuana and stigmatization of pot smokers is much much worse.
        
         | ffhhj wrote:
         | Something I learned from a pot smoker: they sometimes mix it
         | with other drugs for higher effects.
        
           | zardo wrote:
           | Sometimes I mix cannabis with more dangerous drugs like
           | alcohol.
        
           | Ms-J wrote:
           | And what is your point?
           | 
           | Everyone has the right to enjoy substances as she/he wants.
        
           | bserge wrote:
           | No way bruh, you should publish these findings!
        
           | oblib wrote:
           | Someone stuffing crack in a joint is not a "pot smoker".
           | They're a crackhead using pot to burn their crack.
        
           | crazy_horse wrote:
           | Yes, add caffeine...
           | 
           | Hippie speedball.
        
           | gunfighthacksaw wrote:
           | I regularly mix cannabis with a super potent CNS depressant
           | that I buy from a shifty young woman dressed as a waitress in
           | my local bar.
        
           | ChefboyOG wrote:
           | Does CNN know about this?
        
       | oblib wrote:
       | I wouldn't work for Amazon even if they gave me weed to smoke.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-03 23:02 UTC)