[HN Gopher] Web-based editor
___________________________________________________________________
Web-based editor
Author : pjmlp
Score : 494 points
Date : 2021-09-03 09:14 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (docs.github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (docs.github.com)
| xkgt wrote:
| Is this similar to what github1s.com offered?
| sidk24 wrote:
| I am still proud of
| [github1s](https://github.com/conwnet/github1s) No Credits
| given :( => https://github.com/conwnet/github1s/issues/346
| tehbeard wrote:
| Yes, but with write access and commiting from the page (vs 1s'
| readonly approach), as well as some extensions working (or
| atleast, it filters better than 1s and only shows those that do
| work).
| sidk24 wrote:
| but for code editing, we have collaborated with gitpod.io :)
| tehbeard wrote:
| That would be vs. github codespaces though wouldn't it?
| sidk24 wrote:
| but gitpod is there before it!
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I thought it was amazing when someone showed me 4 years ago that
| you can access RStudio feature complete in a browser. Data and
| compute lives air gapped on the server and the developers device
| is just a thin client.
|
| Great to see other development tool picking up the same usecase.
| rapnie wrote:
| Opens up some very attractive features for the developer. The
| amount of vendor lock-in that this will create over time is
| spectacular. Can we glean something of how the future of software
| development looks like? Thinking especially of open-source
| projects here.
| tehbeard wrote:
| I'm not sure what attractive features you mean?
|
| You can't build/compile/test within this, you'd have to lean on
| GitHub Actions open in another tab to check that, and actions
| seems more focused towards automating tests / releases after a
| feature is pushed, rather than during a coding session.
|
| As far as making quick edits, it's very much a step up over the
| previous/ "raw" edit file function.
|
| I made a patch to phpstan-src a few weeks back, I only needed
| to update one file, but couldn't get GitHub to load the file
| through the web editor (very large resource file of function
| declarations)
|
| Just tested it in this, loaded as fast as vscode or sublime, no
| issues with scrolling on that 13k line file, Search works like
| a dream.
| sytse wrote:
| GitLab had a Web IDE since Jan 2018 and we're considering adding
| the same . shortcut for it in https://gitlab.com/gitlab-
| org/gitlab/-/issues/340095
| zerop wrote:
| can one make a full fledged rest API in Java with this?
| teruakohatu wrote:
| Does anyone know why Atom (now owned by GitHub/MSFT) never felt
| as native as VS Code, at least back when VS Code was released?
| jedisct1 wrote:
| This is amazing.
|
| However, the lack of language servers hardly make it a
| replacement for a desktop install of VSCode.
|
| Writing Rust code without RLS, or Zig code without ZLS is not a
| great experience.
| rlili wrote:
| Can't one just install the rust-analyzer extension inside a
| codespace? It worked for me.
| jedisct1 wrote:
| That seems to be complicated to setup and Codespaces is only
| available for organizations and enterprise customers.
| brundolf wrote:
| This seems like something they could roll out over time,
| especially given how hard they've been championing LSP
| elsewhere. I see a convergence over time between this, VSCode
| remote mode, Codespaces, etc.
| 41209 wrote:
| Love it.
|
| If you have a pipeline setup you can of course run code on
| commit.
|
| Hell, this turns an iPad into a limited dev station. For
| situations where your not at your dev system you can still get
| some limited work done.
| tyingq wrote:
| I wonder if this results in some amount of lower quality pull
| requests since the "barrier to entry" is now pretty low. On the
| other hand, it might open up more people that can help with
| documentation bugs and similar.
| mritchie712 wrote:
| I think the net effect will be positive. Especially on
| documentation where adding some detail or gotcha is low risk
| but could possibly save someone else hours.
| lostintangent wrote:
| If folks are curious about the kind of use cases this enables, I
| wrote a quick article last week that highlights some of the
| things that are currently possible (e.g. codebase walkthroughs,
| web playgrounds, knowledge-base management):
| http://aka.ms/githubdev-fun
| Shadonototro wrote:
| > Pressing the dot ( . ) key while browsing any repository on
| GitHub.
|
| if you are using a QWERTY keyboard layout, yet again, decision
| made by someone self centered, probably a mac user since github's
| font looks so bad on linux
| [deleted]
| mmphosis wrote:
| It doesn't work.
|
| _Troubleshooting
|
| If you have issues opening the web-based editor, try the
| following:_
|
| _Make sure you are signed in to GitHub._ nope
|
| _Disable any ad blockers._ nope
|
| _Use a non-incognito window in your browser to open the web-
| based editor._ nope
| chirau wrote:
| Maybe I am just dumb, but the terminal is not working for me. How
| do I run commands in this?
| gedy wrote:
| > Because there is no associated compute, you won't be able to
| build and run your code or use the integrated terminal.
| addicted wrote:
| This is more than a little ironic, because if I remember
| correctly, Github created the open source Atom editor, which was
| gaining popularity until VS Code came into the picture and
| absolutely destroyed it.
| moogly wrote:
| I've been using this for a while. Very, very, very handy for
|
| - Just exploring some code.
|
| - Quickly pull up as reference code w/ decent navigation without
| having to checkout locally or navigate forward/back in the source
| tree in GitHub.
|
| - When reviewing PRs and wanting to check out some surrounding
| code that is not part of the actual PR.
|
| - If you want to quickly commit something really small and
| trivial in master/a branch/a PR without having to do the whole
| stash/checkout/pull/change/commit/push rigmarole (like if you're
| in the middle of doing something else).
|
| Things that are very annoying:
|
| - Some of the most used VSCode hotkeys are browser hotkeys, like
| Ctrl+T, Ctrl+P, Ctrl+Shift+P etc. The functions aren't even
| rebound to anything else, they're just not available via hotkeys.
|
| - Some extensions are not available, especially ones that
| (partially) may rely on some kind of local binary. I understand
| that, but that also sometimes rules out extensions that could
| partially work. Example: none of the Zig extensions work because
| they reference tooling binaries, so I can't even get syntax
| highlighting of Zig code. You could argue that's an extension
| packaging issue, however. That's fair.
|
| - The PR reviewing UI needs a lot of work, because right now it's
| not as good as the normal GitHub UI, so currently, for larger
| PRs, I need to have both UIs open.
|
| I hope in the future you can save a gist or something with custom
| settings/hotkeys/extensions to load. I'm sure they're working on
| something like that.
|
| Update: Oh, there actually is some form of settings sync. Have to
| check that out.
| eugene0 wrote:
| > - When reviewing PRs and wanting to check out some
| surrounding code that is not part of the actual PR.
|
| It's interesting to see how suitable is the IDE for code review
| for different people. For me, it's usually pretty much
| overload, since it's focused on writing, not reading. But
| GitHub is really doing a great job of eliminating the necessity
| of cloning the branch for the review.
|
| I'm doing a few experiments in this area on a tool called
| Viezly (example: https://viezly.com/change_requests/3986). Its
| focus is on dependency and navigation. So it's a light version
| of IDE-in-the-cloud for these cases of code review.
| aurbano wrote:
| That's a really neat way of visualising changed files!
| [deleted]
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| > Some of the most used VSCode hotkeys are browser hotkeys
|
| This kills me with Jupyter. Open bash kernel, make typo,
| Ctrl+w, sigh as tab disappears. I often open and pin several
| empty tabs so it only kills the tab, not the whole window.
| bewuethr wrote:
| I suffered from the same until I discovered Gnome tweaks'
| "Emacs input" setting, which makes every text field behave
| like a Bash readline prompt with emacs keybindings!
| brundolf wrote:
| You can use Ctrl/Cmd + Shift + T to re-open the last closed
| tab (assuming your actual changes are saved elsewhere; I
| haven't really used Jupyter)
| lucis wrote:
| I was showing my friends just yesterday how amazed I was for
| Command + P working as an app shortcut on github.dev. Did you
| try this recently?
| moogly wrote:
| Thanks! It didn't use to work so I haven't tried it in a
| while (Firefox).
|
| Now I just have to change the other bindings (and relearn).
| rattray wrote:
| What's this?
| lucis wrote:
| I've just tested with Safari on MacOS.
|
| 1. Go to any Github repo 2. Press . 3. Wait for the editor
| to load... 4. Press Ctrl/Command + P 5. It opens VSCode's
| "Go to File" prompt
| rattray wrote:
| Nice! Works for me too on Chrome on MacOS.
|
| Too bad cmd+w, ctrl+tab, and ctrl+shift-tab doesn't close
| an editor tab / switch editor tabs... and if you hover on
| the close icon, it just tells you to use cmd+w instead of
| something else.
| losvedir wrote:
| Is this basically the same as hitting just plain "t" on a
| github.com repo? (Fuzzy file listing/search).
| justinsaccount wrote:
| > - Some of the most used VSCode hotkeys are browser hotkeys,
| like Ctrl+T, Ctrl+P, Ctrl+Shift+P etc. The functions aren't
| even rebound to anything else, they're just not available via
| hotkeys.
|
| On chrome(os) at least if you move the editor to it's own
| fullscreen window all keys are passed to the editor.
|
| There's probably a way to make this work without requiring the
| window to be fullscreen.
| wffurr wrote:
| Click the "add to shelf" or "create shortcut" option in the
| Chrome menu, and tick the box for "open as window".
|
| https://www.cnet.com/how-to/this-setting-makes-chrome-os-
| fee...
| cookiengineer wrote:
| > - Some of the most used VSCode hotkeys are browser hotkeys,
| like Ctrl+T, Ctrl+P, Ctrl+Shift+P etc. The functions aren't
| even rebound to anything else, they're just not available via
| hotkeys.
|
| You can also use "chromium --app $url" and you'll have these
| key bindings available. If you want to use github isolated from
| your browser history, you can use it like so:
|
| [$] chromium --user-data-dir=$HOME/github_or_whatever
| --app="https://github.com/orga/repo" --new-window;
|
| edit: If you use MacOS or Windows, my browser wrapper script
| from another project might give you some hints on how to use
| Safari or Edge this way [1].
|
| [1] https://github.com/tholian-
| network/stealth/blob/X0/browser/b...
| stophecom wrote:
| > If you want to quickly commit something really small and
| trivial in master/a branch/a PR without having to do the whole
| stash/checkout/pull/change/commit/push rigmarole (like if
| you're in the middle of doing something else).
|
| Agree, except code formatting (e.g. w/ Prettier) is missing -
| which would make it extremely helpful to do small PRs.
| lilyball wrote:
| GitHub sure is focused on getting people to edit projects from
| the web, but they continue to let the actual code review part
| languish. It's barely usable for any kind of serious review, and
| it barely even _loads_ for large PRs.
| k__ wrote:
| I'm in the beta for a few months now and use it on a daily basis.
|
| It's pretty nice to have an extra tier between "local
| clone/checkout" and "commit to remote repository".
|
| I can code on my three different machines with one "remote
| checkout" and commit when I'm finished.
|
| Before, I would have to pull/push every time I switched the
| machine.
|
| I used Cloud9 before, but VSCode simply has the better eco-
| system.
|
| The only thing that sucks is (obviously) offline work. It would
| be cool if I could do more locally, especially when I'm in a
| train.
| jrm4 wrote:
| Convenient, but also, be wary to the extent that this might be
| steps toward the "Microsoft controls all the code" ecosystem.
| zimbatm wrote:
| Brave users out there, something in the security model is
| preventing from loading the Service Worker. I tried to relax the
| permissions on the domains but it's still being blocked somehow:
|
| > Error loading webview: Error: Could not register service
| workers: NotSupportedError: Failed to register a ServiceWorker
| for scope ('https://a47e99b4-9517-4e50-87ca-95e06da14aed.vscode-
| webview....') with script
| ('https://a47e99b4-9517-4e50-87ca-95e06da14aed.vscode-
| webview....'): The user denied permission to use Service Worker..
| account_created wrote:
| I was trying to access [vscode](https://vscode.dev), but couldn't
| login using my `live.in` email address. It says that "'live.com'
| does not exist in tenant 'Microsoft'", LOL
| ItalyPaleAle wrote:
| vscode.dev is not yet publicly available. You can use
| github.dev for now
| robbiemitchell wrote:
| The onboarding experience was odd.
|
| I pressed "next section" thinking it would move me down to the
| next item in the menu, but it skipped me to another page. Then I
| tried to press some kind of "back" button and it ended the
| onboarding completely. And there doesn't seem to be a way to get
| it back again.
| zz865 wrote:
| Its scary we're heading towards a situation where everything is
| done in a browser. Maybe Chromeos really is the future.
| divan wrote:
| If you think about it, browser is just an OS for the apps that
| have crappiest stack (typesetting engine from 80s and, well,
| javascript), weird window manager (full-window tabs), sandbox
| for everything (including TCP/UDP calls) and no apps
| distribution process whatsoever - you download app each time
| you want to use it.
|
| Why people are excited about this OS, I don't know :)
| stabbles wrote:
| The OS is free, easy to install and runs on mobile too...
| hortense wrote:
| Some people are excited because there's no gatekeeper taking
| 100 USD every year for the privilege of distributing apps on
| it. Also, it's quite simple to start developing for it.
|
| For complex software (e.g. video games) on the other hand the
| web is a real piece of crap: performance suck, no UDP, a
| certain browser is purposely a ton of useful APIs (or is
| straight up buggy).
| yann2 wrote:
| Start disecting how the brain works and its very similar one
| stack of garbage hacks on top of another constantly
| accumulating over time.
| layer8 wrote:
| I'd like something more dependable and user-friendly than
| my brain though.
| duped wrote:
| All of these things are secondary to a standard UI and
| distribution for all platforms.
| maple3142 wrote:
| > sandbox for everything
|
| IMO, This is the best thing about browser as an OS. You can
| run untrusted apps and know that it couldn't steal your ssh
| keys or other things without your consent, similar to iOS and
| Android.
| zz865 wrote:
| Yes its the best thing about a browser when your laptop has
| valuable stuff on it.
|
| When all your data is on a server its like you dont need a
| sandbox any more. :)
| aloer wrote:
| There are more benefits with the browser sandbox than
| just plain old file access. Web apps can't just read the
| clipboard or enter scripts/commands or take screenshots
| or activate webcam and microphone
|
| For all practical purposes, file system sandbox features
| might actually be the first to become meaningless again
| when more and more data is stored in offline browser
| caches
|
| And application delivery in enterprise environments is
| also much more lightweight compared to VDI solutions like
| Citrix so there's another benefit in terms of sandbox and
| isolation
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| At Google in 2013, many developers just used Chromebook's. I am
| starting a new job in a few weeks and I expect quite a lot of
| my work will be done in AWS SageMaker.
|
| I am fairly comfortable having my laptop being a conduit to
| better resources in the cloud. There are also strong security
| advantages of not having sensitive data on laptops.
| amitport wrote:
| Why is it scary?
| zz865 wrote:
| Scary was probably not what I meant, more like paradigm
| shifting change into something unrecognizable from my
| experience.
| amitport wrote:
| I just want to add that running in the browser does not mean
| running in the cloud or web. I actually once worked on
| enterprise software that used a browser as GUI. That's not at
| all bad. Of course there is always room for improvement.
| cxr wrote:
| By a reasonable guess your app was distributed as a binary
| that spun up a local web server and automatically pointed
| the user's browser to it. That's a perfectly fine approach
| for some use cases, but for many others, even the server
| binary isn't needed.
|
| An extremely underappreciated approach for development and
| distribution is targeting the browser as a sandbox for
| fully local applications (embodied in static files--or
| better: as a single file). I see lots of people making apps
| and throwing them up on GitHub Pages, but rarely do the
| developers package them up into a form that you can
| download from the Releases tab from the associated repo and
| then double click to run. At best, they'll point at the
| repo with instructions in the README about running npm or
| yarn.
|
| (Then again, if their build processes would also target the
| browser's JS engine and standard browser APIs instead of
| NodeJS and its proprietary ones, then the entire exercise
| of setting up an NPM-based development environment need not
| exist, either. Oddly enough, people who think of themselves
| as JS developers and spend their days writing web apps seem
| to either really dislike the thought of actually using the
| browser, or they're so afflicted with tunnel vision that
| they've missed the obviousness of using the browser runtime
| in this way.)
| jhoechtl wrote:
| All your Data are belong to us?
| cube00 wrote:
| It's the end of being able purchase any kind of perpetual
| license to your software. It'll all be on the web and it will
| be paid per month. When that meets a company with an
| aggressive sunset policy or if they have an outage it won't
| be a good time.
| Vespasian wrote:
| It probably requires updating user protection laws to deal
| with new business models and enforce interoperability.
|
| We are still in the Wild West Phase of SAAS.
| pjmlp wrote:
| We already have a draft of them from timesharing days.
| dgb23 wrote:
| Seems unlikely. Even if that is a trend right now, if there
| is a need for other paradigms, then there will be people
| making and using them.
| CodeGlitch wrote:
| But with opensource software I can run it on any server I
| want (AWS, Azure, my own). I'm still in control.
|
| I do this for all sorts of applications.
| dmingod666 wrote:
| If someone says "The trend towards smaller cars suggests
| trucks and SUVs will cease to exist.."
|
| Not going to happen..
| tclancy wrote:
| One could also see it as an option that makes contributing
| to open source so much easier for small edits. There are
| plenty of times when I am working that I would make a small
| change or refactoring to a project, but the idea of
| cloning, setting up an environment, figuring out how they
| run tests, etc. makes for too much of a barrier to entry.
| criddell wrote:
| Ellen Ullman quotes Whitfield Diffie in her book _Life in
| Code_ and I think he's spot on:
|
| > We were slaves to the mainframe! he said. Dumb terminals!
| That's all we had. We were powerless under the big machine's
| unyielding central control. Then we escaped to the personal
| computer, autonomous, powerful. Then networks. The PC was
| soon rendered to be nothing but a "thin client," just a
| browser with very little software residing on our personal
| machines, the code being on network servers, which are under
| the control of administrators. Now to the web, nothing but a
| thin, thin browser for us. All the intelligence out there, on
| the net, our machines having become dumb terminals again.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| With a piece of software I physically own and that has an
| offline activation mode ( _tips hat to Jetbrains_ ), I can be
| reasonably certain that I can keep using it for as long as I
| can maintain some kind of virtual machine for the host OS. I
| will not be affected in my usage of the software by any
| decision the software maker decides to do in the future -
| think UI overhauls, deprecation of features -, the balance of
| my bank account or the software maker goes bankrupt or bought
| out.
|
| If I am skilled enough, I can mod the piece of software to do
| whatever I want (this especially applies to games), or can
| swap out pieces with other pieces (e.g. replace the built-in
| compiler of an IDE with a different one).
|
| A pure SaaS environment? I'm completely at the mercy of the
| operator now. I am locked in into whatever decision the
| operator makes, I depend on them keeping their service
| available 24/7 (because when they go down, I can't work and
| make money), I depend on them not getting bought out by a
| competitor that then decides to close up shop (either to get
| rid of competition, acqui-hire or the specific SaaS service
| is unprofitable), I'll have to pay whatever price the
| operator wants (which is particularly insidious given the SV
| model of price dumping, monopoly formation and subsequent
| extortion), and in most if not all cases I have no way of
| modification (userstyles/userscripts just don't work in
| compiled JS/CSS apps any more without _a lot_ of work). And
| to top it off, for many SaaS solutions I have to pay money to
| keep using it under a contract, which is an obligation on my
| future budget.
| SimeVidas wrote:
| Not "everything is done in a browser" but "everything is done
| in applications running in a browser engine"
| xtat wrote:
| Way scarier is a world of native code and appstores
| headmelted wrote:
| It's fantastic. Cloud 9 IDE has been surprisingly good at this
| point for many years but never really got much attention after
| the Amazon purchase.
|
| Obviously it's no Visual Studio Code (not least because of the
| ecosystem of plugins), so it's great to see things coming
| along.
| stabbles wrote:
| I used to think this was pushed by some of the large tech
| companies that do not have a popular OS and are forced to turn
| the browser effectively into an OS. But both Github and VS code
| are owned by Microsoft now.
| Vespasian wrote:
| Users in general (with exceptions) do not care about how and
| where their software runs and data is stored.
|
| For many people internet connectivity and local computation
| power (within the browser) is now good enough to skip
| installations and updates all together.
|
| It makes perfect sense for them to do this and in the end
| they are not giving up control if they still own the OS.
|
| Microsoft can always the decide that "untrusted" websites
| (which, for example, are not "certified" by them) get blocked
| from using certain features.
| pjmlp wrote:
| They are pushing Azure Cloud OS, Microsoft's timesharing
| platform. :)
| smackeyacky wrote:
| It smells to me like Microsoft have realised Windows is
| heading the way of VMS and they need an exit strategy. Its no
| coincidence windows 11 pro has a built in wayland compositor
| to go with WSL2.
| maxwellito wrote:
| It's surprisingly good! Same experience as using VSCode on my
| computer. I'll definitely start using it for quick edits, then
| probably end using it for normal development.
|
| Curious to see how the developing experience will evolve in the
| next few years.
| bullen wrote:
| I just get "The Web Worker Extension Host did not start in 60s,
| that might be a problem."
|
| And the project never loads.
|
| Edit1: That said I also started development on my own web IDE:
| http://edit.rupy.se
|
| Edit2: This other URL works: https://github1s.com/tinspin/rupy
| interactivecode wrote:
| Where can I read more about your web ide?
| gclawes wrote:
| So if VS Code can run as a web-based editor like this, what's the
| major difference between VS Code and Eclipse Theia (derived from
| VSCode)?
| headmelted wrote:
| It looks like this is actually just the editor from Visual Studio
| Online unless I've missed something.
|
| It's great, but if it were really Visual Studio Code that would
| be awesome and I'd be pleasantly surprised.
|
| (The difference being that if it's just the editor it misses out
| on all the compiler/analysis integrations. If Github were
| providing Linux containers in the cloud for working on projects -
| essentially the SSH feature from Visual Studio Code - it would be
| absolutely brilliant.)
| csnweb wrote:
| I think what you might want is GitHub Codespaces?:
| https://github.com/features/codespaces. Was on HN recently too.
| headmelted wrote:
| This is literally _exactly_ what I would want, thanks!
| messe wrote:
| Hmm. $0.18 per hour for 4GB of RAM is a rather steep. A
| c6g.large on AWS would run you less than a half of that, for
| the same number of CPUs and memory. A quarter if you're happy
| to use spot instances. Might be neat to have an OSS tool that
| spins up an EC2 (or Azure or GCP) instance running Code-
| Server[1] (VS Code running natively on the server, but
| presenting the UI in the browser), with a given git repo and
| credentials.
|
| Admittedly, the storage costs would be higher.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/cdr/code-server
| westurner wrote:
| The ml-workspace docker image includes Git, Jupyter, VS
| Code, SSH, and "many popular data science libraries &
| tools" https://github.com/ml-tooling/ml-workspace
| docker run -p 8080:8080 -v "${PWD}:/workspace"
| mltooling/ml-workspace
|
| Cocalc-docker also includes Git, Jupyter, SSH, a
| collaborative LaTeX editor, a time slider, but no code-
| server or VScode out of the box:
| https://github.com/sagemathinc/cocalc-docker
| docker run --name=cocalc -d -v ~/cocalc:/projects -p
| 443:443 sagemathinc/cocalc
| cube00 wrote:
| _> Because there is no associated compute, you won't be able to
| build and run your code or use the integrated terminal. Only a
| subset of extensions that can run in the web will appear in the
| Extensions panel and can be installed. Likewise, support for
| certain programming languages may be more limited in the web._
| headmelted wrote:
| That's a shame, but at the same time a big step forward.
|
| Azure has had this for a few years now (unless there's
| upgrades in the Github version I'm not aware of) and it's
| been really useful for quick edits - will be good to see it
| develop now that it's sure to pick up much more use through
| GH.
| adevx wrote:
| If you don't want to tie in with GitHub, there is also a vscode
| browser version called "code server"
|
| https://github.com/cdr/code-server
|
| I've been using it for the last couple of weeks on a development
| VPS and really love it. I'm considering moving my dev environment
| over to the server and just open a browser to do all the work.
| dschuessler wrote:
| Is there any upside compared to using the SSH Remote extension?
| https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/ssh
|
| It automatically sets up the server for me on any machine I can
| SSH into and I can use real VSCode instead of the browser
| version.
| lights0123 wrote:
| That is proprietary, code-server is completely Free
| adevx wrote:
| Benefits of code-server is that it requires zero tooling on
| the client except a browser. I can use e.g. someone's iPad to
| quickly do some edits vs requiring my laptop with SSH keys.
| Other than that, using native vscode is a bit faster and has
| all keyboard shortcuts working. I use both vscode remote with
| SSH and "code server" behind NGINX.
| greatgib wrote:
| Remember the typical Microsoft:
|
| "embrace, extend, extinguish" ...
| user-the-name wrote:
| What exactly is it you are saying they are embracing, extending
| or extinguishing here?
| Zababa wrote:
| Open source development, starting with Javascript/Typescript.
| Microsoft own Typescript, VSCode, Github, Azure and NPM. It's
| not hard to imagine in the future an online dev environment
| that works with all of these technologies together. But this
| environment won't have an open source counterpart.
|
| Embrace: Buy Github, NPM, develop VScode, Typescript, Azure.
|
| Extend & extinguish: make all of them work together really
| well in a way that can't be reproduce by the open soure
| community.
|
| I think it's a bit early to say that they are embracing and
| extinguishing at this point, but I wasn't here last time and
| may be biaised because I find these tools incredibly
| convenient. In a way, Microsoft is leveraging their unique
| advantage over other cloud vendors, which is their proximity
| with developers.
| user-the-name wrote:
| What is the "extinguish" part?
| Zababa wrote:
| According to Wikipedia:
|
| "Extinguish: When extensions become a de facto standard
| because of their dominant market share, they marginalize
| competitors that do not or cannot support the new
| extensions."
|
| So if your text editor doesn't support integration with
| Github and a cloud vendor, or if your repositories don't
| support integration with an online text editor and a
| cloud vendor, or if your cloud vendor doesn't support
| integration with Github and an online text editor, this
| will affect your market share. I think the end goal is
| around "developer mindshare" (which, I admit, is a really
| vague concept), especially in web applications. By
| assembling all that they have, they can create an
| experience no one else can, all while leveraging open
| source tools.
|
| You could also imagine an integration with education
| (Github student pack, Azure credits, etc). At this point,
| they could dominate the web app market because no one
| else can offer such a deep integration across the stack.
|
| I think one of the differences with the "old" EEE would
| be that instead of intentionally crippling certain
| features, they are instead focusing on giving the best-
| in-class experience. If you consider that it's just
| regular competition and not EEE because of that, that's
| totally fair. Still, I think that we should still be wary
| of domination. Competition is what's pushing Microsoft to
| develop all those wonderful tools, and I fear that with
| domination they might become complacent and abuse their
| position.
| cxr wrote:
| The GitHub folks were already on a roll with this before
| Microsoft came along. How many people don't understand
| the difference between Git and GitHub, don't realize that
| saying "can you <interact with me somehow> on GitHub?"
| makes the same presumptions as "can you <interact with me
| somehow> on Facebook?", don't give two shits about how
| messy their commit messages are formatted, don't realize
| that Git doesn't actually have PRs, don't realize that
| the closest analog that it does have is intended for the
| convenience of a core team of frequent collaborators
| pulling from one another (N-to-N instead of the star
| topology that dominates on GitHub--and not for drive-by
| contributors), and wouldn't know what to do with a patch
| if you gave it to them, or if they do, wouldn't accept
| one if you tried.
| Zababa wrote:
| That is a very good point. I had the chance to start my
| "Git adventure" with Mercurial on some in house software
| at my university. They then switched to Git with Gitlab.
| And now I use Git with Github. It helped me to realize
| which piece does what. But if you start with popular
| tutorials, everything is Github. Github even released a
| CLI wrapper around Git that integrates Github-specific
| concepts.
| dmm wrote:
| vscode is open source but many of the most interesting
| features are proprietary, making the use of anything but the
| official build impossible for many use cases.
|
| A few weeks ago I investigated using an embedded version of
| vscode to create containerized dev environments for an
| internal developer platform we're working on. The hope was to
| allow devs to write and debug code from inside a k8s
| container by using vscode inside their browser. Very similar
| to the newly announced codespaces feature.
|
| Unfortunately, there were several factors that made this
| impractical. The extension marketplace can only be used with
| the official build. There are at least two alternatives but
| both were missing extensions that our devs used. Also, the c#
| debugger is proprietary and only works with official vscode
| build.
|
| From that experience I believe that while the core editor
| features of vscode are open source, "Visual Studio Code" the
| tool that people actually use is defacto proprietary and
| entirely controlled by Microsoft.
| user-the-name wrote:
| None of which has anything to do with "embrace, extend,
| extinguish". That just means they are not wanting to fully
| commit to open sourcing their own editor.
| junon wrote:
| For those unaware:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
|
| > "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" (EEE) . . . is a phrase
| that the U.S. Department of Justice found that was used
| internally by Microsoft to describe its strategy for entering
| product categories involving widely used standards, extending
| those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using
| those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its
| competitors.
|
| This is a completely valid reason to be concerned with these
| sorts of things now that GitHub is owned and operated by
| Microsoft. They continue these practices today, and GitHub is
| no exception.
| teekert wrote:
| You get downvoted but I also have that little voice in my
| head. I keep thinking about hitting a point of no return with
| my dependency on Microsoft. But I'm not there yet, I could
| untangle fairly quickly, fairly painlessly. Moreover, many of
| MS' recent stuff is FOSS, they can change it, but we can fork
| it. And competitors like GitLab are still alive and kicking,
| not suffering by the looks of it.
|
| But the little voice indeed remains.
| junon wrote:
| Yeah the downvotes don't surprise me, but their strategy
| has existed historically - proven, as it were - and thus I
| have to assume they still employ these tactics. At least
| from the outside, it sure seems so.
| teekert wrote:
| Tbh I think they have bettered themselves. I'm not so
| afraid of it. Companies can change, Satya is an admirable
| man, he always comes across as wise. Well, I guess the
| same could be said of Ballmer, some videos being a BIG
| exception of course. But it doesn't hurt to keep an eye
| on them ;)
| greatgib wrote:
| Looks like there are some Microsoft fan boys here...
|
| For the others, that does not know the concept that was applied
| by them numerous times, it's easy:
|
| - embrace: they buy GitHub, play nice, be part of the
| community, we will change nothing, commit to open source spirit
|
| - extend [current step]: oh, we are just adding nice features,
| now you will use our visual studio, but don't worry, it's for
| free, it just improve your experience.
|
| - extinguish [next step, my guess]:
|
| * "sadly, VS works better in edge and does not support minor
| browsers like Firefox",
|
| * there are these cool new synchronization features/real time
| collaboration that requires Visual Studio on your computer.
|
| * Sorry, you need an official VS build to use the features
| because security/authentication/...
|
| * Here are the corporate workspace accounts that allows to
| limit code edition in the cloud, for security. And so, for
| security also, you can only use it from edge on windows X with
| TPM.
|
| Based on previous MS experiences, the possibility are endless!
|
| I would kindly remind that the version of VisualStudioCode that
| almost everyone use is just a freeware but it can't be built as
| is from ope source code.
|
| Also, not long so long ago they were willing to switch everyone
| GitHub accounts with Microsoft accounts...
| pjmlp wrote:
| Except everyone is on the game to bring back timesharing as
| main computing model, Microsoft isn't alone.
|
| Outside games, even most native mobile apps don't work without
| their timesharing infrastructure.
| PaulWaldman wrote:
| Is this Codespaces without the ability to build and debug?
| traspler wrote:
| Yes, pretty much. Also with some limits on the available
| extensions as everything runs in your browser.
| maxioatic wrote:
| For example, the Rust or Go extension.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| Finally. I've been waiting for this since 2009 when the Bespin
| project emerged. But now I'm afraid they will occasionally
| deprecate the offline VSCode or make it a paid option.
| SuboptimalEng wrote:
| I recently discovered this feature and started using it to
| explore repositories and it's saved me a lot of time. My use-case
| is pretty simple but you can definitely do a lot more with this.
| For those that prefer a visual example you can watch my 2 minute
| YouTube video[0].
|
| Pros:
|
| - No need to clone code base to just explore it (cmd + p to
| search files)
|
| - A lot of VS code extensions are available to use out of the
| box: Vim, themes, syntax highlighters
|
| - You can import your VS code's custom settings.json +
| keybindings.json
|
| Cons:
|
| - Not all keybindings work since they conflict with the browser
| (cmd + shift + f to search all files sometimes bugs out and makes
| browser full screen)
|
| - Not all extensions are currently available
|
| - The terminal doesn't work
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTTGCgQQhgw
| azalemeth wrote:
| Am I alone in _not_ jumping on the Visual Studio [Code]
| bandwagon? Other online editors have had "vim modes" for _ages_
| (e.g. Overleaf) and frankly I 'm unlikely to write a chonking
| great script or project in a browser on Github -- a minor
| modification is much more likely. VS Code's codebase is _huge_.
| Will Github allow people to use other $EDITORs?
|
| (Yes, I'm aware this makes me sound like an old man!)
| raxxorrax wrote:
| VSCode is/was a neat editor, but I fear it is slowly morphing
| to become an overloaded mess.
|
| It was so sleek and lightweight at first it was really a
| pleasure to use. But performance and bugs seem to increase,
| even if you don't use many or any plugins at all.
| tehbeard wrote:
| I'm curious to know what sort of dev work you do with vscode,
| it still feels rather snappy to me with ~40 extensions, but
| perhaps using it for other languages is more of a problem?
| raxxorrax wrote:
| I am an embedded dev that mostly writes C/ASM, but also
| JS/HTML for visualization, where I use VSCode mostly.
|
| It still has decent performance and I will continue using
| it. I think I have my linters correctly configured so there
| isn't any huge background scanning of files. But I have the
| impression the early versions were faster.
| krono wrote:
| > ~40 extensions
|
| Devs with this many extensions are an OpSec/data governance
| nightmare!
|
| VSCode desperately needs some sort of access
| policy/permission system for their extensions, and make it
| more obvious when an extension phones home code or other
| data its user doesn't directly provide it with.
|
| Copilot, for example, straight up sends and uses your code
| - not just the modifications you've made to the laundered
| code it provides you with, but any or all of it [1].
|
| 1 https://docs.github.com/en/github/copilot/telemetry-terms
| jchw wrote:
| For me the advantage of VSCode is in its approach and how it
| has differed from other products:
|
| - VSCode Remoting is really useful. It doesn't suffer as much
| from latency as SSH or display forwarding, and lets you use
| some local configuration when remoting. Neovim will soon have a
| feature like this.
|
| - Language servers for code intelligence has greatly improved
| editor support for languages. Up until the introduction and
| adoption of LSP, which was practically an invention of VSCode,
| language support was significantly more hit-or-miss with most
| editors. Basically only IntelliJ IDEA could do similar code
| intelligence across many languages. Because of LSP though, more
| editors and more languages can participate in inline
| documentation, go to symbol, errors as you type, debugging,
| etc. for example, many people now use language servers with
| Vim, and you can see useful integrations for languages like
| Terraform/Hashicorp HCL.
|
| - The extensions ecosystem: it isn't necessarily the greatest
| ever, but it is very solid.
|
| - Compared to many IDEs, it remains lightweight and fast to
| boot. Though I'm not complaining, (regular) Visual Studio and
| IntelliJ are too useful to ignore in some cases.
|
| - Unification: because it's so versatile, across OSes, across
| runtimes, over remoting, over Code Spaces, you can buy into the
| ecosystem in your projects. You can tell Code Spaces what
| extensions to install and what commands to run, to try to build
| a nice environment. You can tell desktop VS Code what
| extensions are recommended, add workspace configuration to help
| improve the workflow. Users still can use other editors, and
| you can still include editor information for those editors too.
| But, for someone who just wants a good option to edit a
| specific project, pushing them towards VS Code is a really safe
| bet.
|
| To be clear it has some issues too:
|
| - There is no equally useable OSS version, as the Microsoft
| distribution has become more dependent on services and blobs.
|
| - It's not as quick and responsive as something like Sublime
| Text or vim.
|
| ... but honestly, I think it's just great. If I was a new
| programmer again and I could jump right into projects and
| immediately begin working on them without having to figure out
| the rigmarole of version control, tool chains, build system and
| editor config, that would be amazing. For that reason I think
| Code Spaces and VSCode are net goods, though I think we ought
| not become too dependent on the specific solution. VSCode is
| never going to be the perfect editor for any specific use, but
| I believe overall it is usually a great editor.
| _fat_santa wrote:
| > There is no equally useable OSS version, as the Microsoft
| distribution has become more dependent on services and blobs
|
| Check out VSCodium, similar to Chrome/Chromium, it's just
| VSCode minus all the related Microsoft stuff.
| siproprio wrote:
| Yeah, but the vscode team is actively trying to break
| vscodium.
| easton wrote:
| Can you point to how? Pretty much all of the
| functionality Microsoft has made that is proprietary
| they've packaged inside extensions. The app itself works
| fine without those extensions.
| siproprio wrote:
| https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/746
| [deleted]
| nerdponx wrote:
| I get worried that VS Code is too popular, and that some
| higher ups might be tempted to go for an EEE play.
|
| The flipside is that MS pouring money into VS Code has
| tremendously benefited the entire code editor ecosystem,
| including (especially) FOSS editors that can reuse their
| language servers.
| hajile wrote:
| Last I checked, most of the MS-owned language servers used
| proprietary licenses.
|
| An example is the Python language server
|
| https://github.com/microsoft/pylance-release
|
| They base it 90% on the open-source pyright library. Then
| the lock down all their own enhancements.
|
| https://github.com/microsoft/pyright
|
| This is why MIT isn't always the correct choice. GPL
| wouldn't hurt devs at all and would protect from this kind
| of garbage from MS.
| nerdponx wrote:
| In this case both Pylance and Pyright are developed by
| Microsoft.
|
| I suspect that open-sourcing in anything at all is
| essentially a long-term PR/marketing/recruiting
| investment, as well as as positioning Microsoft as the
| keepers and main developers of what has become an
| important standard.
|
| That said, by "reuse" I mean that end-users are free to
| install the non-free binaries extracted from VS code,
| which interoperate with any text editor that implement a
| language client. They are all on NPM.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > This is why MIT isn't always the correct choice. GPL
| wouldn't hurt devs at all and would protect from this
| kind of garbage from MS.
|
| But would it protect against Pylance existing, or would
| it just be more expensive to develop but still
| proprietary (and possibly not free-as-in-beer), or would
| it be Free?
|
| There's only one of those three where devs (as opposed to
| Free Software ideologues) win, and one where both lose.
|
| (And really, it would do _none_ of those, since pyright
| is also owned by MS, so they could reuse it on any terms
| even if the owner [them] offered it to others only under
| GPL terms. All GPL would do is prevent someone else from
| competing with Pylance by taking pyright and building
| similar functionality on top, possibly with a still-Free
| license.)
| hajile wrote:
| If pyright were GPL'd then MS would own their own pieces,
| but the contributions would be owned by others and that
| would prevent the relicensing you're talking aobut.
|
| MS _could_ pay a dev team to write everything themselves,
| but it 's a matter of cost. Given the choice between
| paying for a ground-up development for a tiny gain or
| using the open project, inertia would push toward the
| open project.
|
| Finally, there's the question of trust.
|
| Why does MS feel the need to lock these things down?
|
| It's obvious now that "Open" was a hook. It killed off
| all the competitors like Atom or Brackets and even mostly
| killed off other editors like Sublime. The only question
| now is the final goal of their lock-in. The only real
| observation is that all of "the new MS that loves devs"
| was just more of the classic Microsoft we've known for
| decades.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > If pyright were GPL'd then MS would own their own
| pieces, but the contributions would be owned by others
|
| So in your hypothetical, Microsoft not only _uses_ the
| GPL instead of MIT outbound, but _accepts contributions_
| under the GPL instead of the CLA it uses for most MS open
| source project contributions, including pyright, inbound,
| etc.?
| hajile wrote:
| Yes.
|
| If they asked for people to sign over copyright for all
| contributions, they simply wouldn't get many takers
| because it would be transparent that the only reason to
| ask would be to close the source later.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > If they asked for people to sign over copyright for all
| contributions, they simply wouldn't get many takers
| because it would be transparent that the only reason to
| ask would be to close the source later.
|
| How is that any less true when the outbound license is
| MIT, and, therefore, how is the fact that they get
| contributions with the CLA _now_ not a firm disproof of
| that claim?
| dllthomas wrote:
| Moreover, https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.en.html
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| I wish this point was brought up more often. Like in the
| TiVo case when everyone lost their minds about ideology,
| meanwhile millions of people got to watch what they
| wanted on their schedule and with no ads.
|
| This attitude of MIT being bad because it gives people
| freedom to do Bad Things(tm) really makes me question
| what open source is actually about (yes I know that it's
| complicated and means many things, that's not what I'm
| talking about here). It seems to me that some proponents
| of it really believe in it so they can tell other people
| what to do.
| nerdponx wrote:
| > It seems to me that some proponents of it really
| believe in it so they can tell other people what to do.
|
| "Some", perhaps. But this is a really disingenuous way to
| characterize open source.
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| "yes I know that it's complicated and means many things,
| that's not what I'm talking about here"
| jarek83 wrote:
| I'm on RubyMine with vim navigation. I find extremely helpful
| in everyday work and it's not only perceived feeling - I pair
| program sometimes with people that use VS Code and they tend to
| be much slower in finding things just because of the clunkiness
| of the VSC's UI.
| barrenko wrote:
| VS Code is all fine an dandy but -
|
| 1) When you alt-tab you lose dialog tooltip, I can't handle
| this, it should be a number one priority to fix this 2) A lot
| of languages just look plain ugly in VS Code, not so in Emacs
| for example, Vim w/e
| rattray wrote:
| > Will Github allow people to use other $EDITORs?
|
| Yes, just clone? Most people who want other editors probably
| don't want browser-based ones.
|
| I'm not sure if the VSCodeVim or VSCodeNeovim extensions work
| on the online version yet, but I'm sure some VSCode/GitHub
| engineers are on the case if not.
|
| EDIT: VSCodeVim (the main "Vim" extension) does "work" on
| github.dev but the escape key doesn't, so as soon as you press
| "i" you're stuck in insert mode forever.
| https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim/issues/7005
| philipswood wrote:
| This seems like it should not be very difficult to do for
| yourself if motivated.
|
| xterm.js [1] is pretty good.
|
| Something like gotty [2] and a engine for getting a container
| with a git checkout started should be relatively straight
| forward.
|
| [1]:https://github.com/xtermjs/xterm.js/
|
| [2]:https://github.com/yudai/gotty
| reificator wrote:
| I'm waiting for version 8 of xterm.js where they introduce
| a minimal version that uses less resources. Then we'll find
| out who's really behind the project...
|
| xterm-min-8.js
| Tyriar wrote:
| As the maintainer of xterm.js I have no idea what you're
| suggesting? FWIW we just shipped xterm-headless which is
| literally a minimal version that uses less resources.
| reificator wrote:
| Sorry bad joke about how the name "xterm" sounds like the
| beginning of the word "exterminate", implying it was made
| by Daleks from Doctor Who.
|
| I forgot HN is not the place for humor, and I did not
| intend to cast any actual aspersions toward anyone
| maintaining cool projects.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| I'm with you. I see no real benefit to VS Code other than not
| understanding how your code editor works, if not a bit
| restrictive. SublimeText has filled the gaps above and I
| haven't ever found a reason to leave it.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Seems like you could use a browser extension that intercepts
| the same key event to load the editor of your choice?
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Depends what I'm doing, but most day stuff is in a JetBrains
| product, or vscode , or sublimetext - in that order.
|
| But I did go from notepad, to eclipse, to ST, to vscode to
| JetBrains, so ... obviously I'm trying to get into emacs now
| tdhz77 wrote:
| Companies want developers to buy into editors like religion.
| All of them (editors) do the same, but spending money on
| IntelliJ is the hardest flex because it says I'm an
| enterprise developer look at me.
| addicted wrote:
| You can get access to all Jetbrains tools for $650/yr for
| the first year, with the price reducing in subsequent
| years.
|
| Considering nearly every S/W dev globally can make that in
| a couple of days, I'm not sure how much of a flex it is
| considering it would be your primary work tool.
|
| And I say this as someone whose never used a Jetbrains tool
| and use Vim for nearly everything (except when I'm on
| Windows where I use a mix of Notepad++ and VSCode).
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Yea, it's only recently I've been buying licences for
| things that make my life (as a dev) better
|
| Sometimes you can afford it, and sometimes you can't.
|
| I think we forget when you could (and still can) do dev
| with a text editor.
|
| I 100% get what you say, but that's a lot of money
| potentially - which is where I think vscode /vim etc
| shine in that it's free and can do the same kinda thing
| tclancy wrote:
| Really? I swapped to PyCharm when I was a solo dev because
| it had superior code insight compared to the other editors.
| What is enterprise about it beyond it costing money?
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Yea that's a weird flex, I get some companies have "use
| these tools" but that's largely for support and discounts
| Darmody wrote:
| I've been trying to make VSCode work like PHPStorm. I've
| tried a huge combination of plugins and there's no way to
| do it.
|
| It doesn't even come close. It's powerful but it's
| definitely not the same. I would go back to NetBeans before
| using VSCode. There's no religion behind it, it's just that
| there are tools that suit my needs better than others.
| bennyp101 wrote:
| I paid for Inteliphense, but it's not a shade on using
| phpstorm - I spent so long on non paid software I missed
| out on a lot of cool stuff
| bennyp101 wrote:
| I bought JetBrains myself because I was told about some
| nice refactoring tools, and they were right.
|
| I don't ask my work to pay, because I use it personally as
| well, and I look at my brother as a woodworker and he's
| honed his tools to what suits him.
|
| I do the same.
| dmingod666 wrote:
| Same here, they have good IDEs and I think it's worth the
| price if you're working on it for such a long time each
| day.
| poetaster wrote:
| In the end you run emacs in evil mode.
| ren_engineer wrote:
| I'm more skeptical of MS/Github taking over the entire
| developer ecosystem. Have to admire their execution of this
| strategy so far
| pjmlp wrote:
| Nope, I am just dragged into it for workflows where there are
| no options, I rather stay on IDEs and native editors otherwise.
|
| Still have some hope that eventually it gets redone in React
| Native or something.
| chasely wrote:
| I've been using a highly-tuned emacs configuration as my IDE
| for a decade now. Each time I want try to switch to VS Code I
| find that all my weird little shortcuts are going to take a lot
| of time to re-learn in VS Code.
|
| I should really just take the time to switch to VS Code and rip
| off the bandaid since I think it would make life easier in the
| long run.
| poetaster wrote:
| Can't believe I say this again. Emacs in evil mode.
| droobles wrote:
| VS Code is nice! I need to give emacs another whirl, I
| learned Vim because I like working on a more lightweight
| cloud dev server while I travel.
| dleslie wrote:
| Vscode is to emacs what html5+css3 is to tex.
|
| Emacs will be around forever, but vscode will dominate.
| kumarvvr wrote:
| I am a developer for almost 15 years now. My primary operating
| system is windows. I have used Linux but only sparingly.
|
| I have used many IDEs.
|
| I have never ever felt the _need_ to use vim.
|
| Is it fair to say, because VSCode does not have a "vim mode",
| it is somehow inferior as an editor?
|
| I seriously don't get it. I have used VSCode almost from day
| one. It is a fantastic editor and quite a capable tool. I
| seriously love it.
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| VSCode does little out of the box. You install plugins to get
| what you want. Including vim mode.
| kumarvvr wrote:
| Exactly my point. Everyone gets a customized flavour.
|
| Everyone can use it as its meant to be, a great tool
| platform that has a great community of plugins and support.
| dleslie wrote:
| Indeed, vscode is more an emacs competitor than vim
| competitor.
| ayushnix wrote:
| > Is it fair to say, because VSCode does not have a "vim
| mode", it is somehow inferior as an editor?
|
| Is VSCode an inferior editor compared to Vim/Neovim?
| Absolutely, it is. Is Vim/NeoVim an inferior IDE experience
| compared to VSCode despite the ongoing evangelism by NeoVim
| fundamentalists? Most likely, yes.
|
| Here's an example before I start getting flak -- NeoVim
| doesn't have stable indent visualization lines and stable and
| sensible code folding support. Try writing serious Markdown
| documentation or Python code in NeoVim and then in VSCode.
|
| The NeoVim website also mentions that being like an IDE is
| not one of its goals.
|
| I already know the responses I'm gonna get - it's open
| source, submit patches or shut up, it's personal taste, those
| features are irrelevant etc etc.
|
| > I seriously don't get it. I have used VSCode almost from
| day one. It is a fantastic editor and quite a capable tool. I
| seriously love it.
|
| You should keep using it. Don't get swayed by people
| proselytising Neovim.
| konart wrote:
| >NeoVim doesn't have stable indent visualization lines
|
| https://github.com/lukas-reineke/indent-blankline.nvim/
| ayushnix wrote:
| https://github.com/lukas-reineke/indent-
| blankline.nvim/issue...
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| I have never used vim in my life (20 years in dev. including
| on linux and used linux since the late 90s). Many people talk
| about vim lately, probably the most I've seen and I'm still
| not sure why.
|
| That said, VSCode is very good. But I don't believe in a web-
| based IDE and in remote Github repos. That's a recipe for
| disaster and unescapable vendor lock-in, and in any case it's
| only an option for web dev., really.
|
| Edit: Since some people always take things literally: I have
| of course _tried_ vim, like most people who ever worked with
| Unix /Linux I suppose, but never got beyond that. I am
| surprised that it seems to have become so "fashionable"
| lately. There are many alternatives to vi/vim and many IDEs.
| My experience is that vi has always suffered from its
| interface and has struggled to expand beyond "bearded Unix
| gurus"...
| TooKool4This wrote:
| > Many people talk about vim lately, probably the most I've
| seen and I'm still not sure why.
|
| Extrapolating from personal experience, I think this might
| be down to Covid WFH where more people have had to ssh into
| remote machines and may need to edit files so might choose
| to use vim as it's easily available. And vim is something
| that I find is better learned progressively where you pick
| up 1 or 2 tricks every week or something so those people
| might have been able to pick it up over the last year or so
| and are now evangelizing it.
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| For what it's worth, you can open a remote directory via
| SSH from vscode.
| https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/linux
|
| Want to have your mind blown? Microsoft (yes that
| Microsoft) officially supports remote development on
| Windows Server via SSH. As in, run vscode on your Linux
| box, create an SSH remote on your Windows Server, develop
| remotely on the server via SSH. Fully supported.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| I'm curious: What is a typical use case for this?
| 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
| Porting cross-platform projects to the operating system
| that looks and feels very different to pretty much
| everything else out there. I prefer doing that from the
| comfort of my primary desktop OS.
| 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
| >supports remote development on Windows Server via SSH
|
| I was excited for this as a way to avoid touching Windows
| altogether, but it works pretty crappily in my
| experience.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| Yes, you may be right.
|
| I have also been WFH because of Covid but haven't had to
| change much or anything to my way of working and I do SSH
| to multiple machines every day. That might vary a lot
| from person to person, though. I have avoided doing
| actual dev. on a remote machine by setting up a VM to run
| Linux locally as any sort of remote desktop tends to be a
| pain.
|
| Also, with distributed source control (git and friends)
| there is usually no need to access remote source files.
| castis wrote:
| Well of course you're "still not sure why"; you've "never
| used vim". How does one understand something they've never
| experienced?
| dec0dedab0de wrote:
| How have you avoided vim this long? What did you edit
| config files with? I guess maybe if you mean you just used
| vi instead
| nicoburns wrote:
| You can use graphical editors over SSH.
|
| I personally tend to install micro, or use nano if that's
| not possible.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| If I just need to do a quick edit of a text file from the
| CLI I usually use nano, as well.
|
| For dev. I use an graphical editor, usually VSCode these
| days. I used emacs at some point a long time ago.
|
| The good thing with git and al is that there is no need
| to access a remote repo., and that's one of the points,
| so there is usually no need to edit source files
| remotely.
| dec0dedab0de wrote:
| I had to google, I didn't realize nano was around 20
| years ago. I didn't know it existed until about 2012, but
| I guess that makes sense then.
| [deleted]
| whitepaint wrote:
| What if you ssh into a server? What if you want to quickly
| edit some file while you are on a terminal?
| Kiro wrote:
| It's not like you can't use vim ever just because VSCode is
| your primary editor.
| tlrobinson wrote:
| It's essential to know the basics of a terminal editor
| (vim, nano/pico, whatever), but for heavy lifting VSCode
| has a remote SSH plugin. It's good enough I often use it
| for developing on a Linux box from my macOS machine.
|
| There's also a "code" command that will open a file or
| directory in VS Code.
| azalemeth wrote:
| I'm someone who also writes code for a living. Linux and
| MacOS are my primary OSes (in that order). I've used Windows,
| but only sparingly.
|
| I've written a lot of C, a _lot_ of scripting languages, and
| a bit of C++. I 've used many IDEs.
|
| For me, the "command line" workflow of Makefiles, vim & gdb
| are really, well, great. When I was a graduate student, I did
| a lot of pair-programming with a vim wizard who showed me
| just how _insanely_ fast one can be with it -- it 's small,
| but extensible. Sufficiently intelligent that you can open a
| 10 GB+ text file in it, jump to a certain line, make a change
| and exit; all before VS/VSCode would have opened. It's an add
| on to an IDE. Sometimes, for me, it replaces it.
|
| I've never ever felt the _need_ to use VS, or VSCode. I know
| other devs love VS for C++, but _I_ love vim - VS feels like
| a big, bloated IDE where you have to memorise the location of
| 4e6 different GUI positions and take your hands continually
| off the keyboard to do anything. Intellisense (and, to a
| lesser extent, Windows as a whole) deeply irritates me. Vim
| has a weird, esoteric language with a learning cliff rather
| than a learning curve -- but I 've used it almost from day
| one. It lets me feel incredibly powerful; it's light, yet has
| more features than I will ever need.
|
| You and I are different. We've got different interests,
| different application areas in mind, and different
| preferences for how to write code and debug it. _And that 's
| okay_! The key to being productive is _accepting_ that people
| are different, work differently under different
| circumstances, and have different strengths, skills, and
| preferences. It 's much better to be accommodating of them,
| rather than stifle them, and leave a proportion of your staff
| frustrated.
|
| I'm just very slightly peeved that _your_ preferences are
| being chosen by Github as a defacto default $EDITOR, but that
| there is _no option whatsoever_ for mine - despite the fact
| that javascript vim / emacs "modes" are recognised as being
| almost religious, with highly developed FOSS javascript
| libraries nearly offering both keybindings and an
| implementation for either editor at a click of a button [e.g.
| 1] that have been around for >10 years.
|
| On top of that, I can't help but notice that Github is
| usually very accommodating with individual developers'
| preferences -- to the extent there are often multiple ways of
| doing things as a result. The fact that, now, both Github and
| VSCode are both Microsoft products -- and that Microsoft
| famously likes people to use its "infrastructure", which is
| often orthogonal to the rest of the world -- just makes a
| little tiny bit of me feel like this is a change being pushed
| upon us, as originally explained in their "Embrace, Extend,
| Extinguish" strategy. I get it, it's a neat feature in beta,
| and it'll directly benefit some large proportion of their
| users. But if they're going to deploy fully equipped editors
| to the web, I'd like to have the ability to chose mine -- and
| give you the freedom to choose yours. I can't help but think
| that if this feature was developed prior to their acquisition
| by Microsoft, it wouldn't be VSCode that was deployed.
|
| [1] https://github.com/ajaxorg/ace
| eveningsteps wrote:
| > ... VS feels like a big, bloated IDE where you have to
| memorise the location of 4e6 different GUI positions and
| take your hands continually off the keyboard to do
| anything.
|
| it sounds like you are completely ignoring the command
| palette, which allows for a quick, keyboard-only way of
| interacting with VS Code. have you given it a chance?
| kumarvvr wrote:
| > VS feels like a big, bloated IDE where you have to
| memorise the location of 4e6 different GUI positions
|
| This one sentence convinces me that you have not used
| VSCode in any meaningful way.
|
| I ditched GUI items for getting stuff done long time ago
| with VSCode. I just bring up the command palette and type
| away. Its insanely great.
| subsection1h wrote:
| > _I ditched GUI items_
|
| When I tried VS Code, it wasn't even possible to hide the
| tabs. As a long-time user of Emacs and highly-
| configurable X window managers, the inability to remove
| useless graphical elements like tabs made VS Code
| unbearable.
| azalemeth wrote:
| That sentence referred to the versions of VS I have used,
| not VS Code :-).
| pjmlp wrote:
| They share many of the shortcuts, actually.
| jasonjayr wrote:
| VSCode _does_ have a vim mode.
|
| See this plugin here: https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim
|
| It works surprisingly well.
| lucis wrote:
| Indeed, they have done such an amazing work! I usually find
| my self using the best of Vim and VSCode at the same time.
|
| I also enjoy the emulated plugins (vim-surround mostly).
| jpeeler wrote:
| I haven't run this long enough to definitely say that it's
| better, but this in theory should offer more correct vim
| behavior: https://github.com/asvetliakov/vscode-neovim
| city41 wrote:
| I've been using it for a couple months now as my main
| editor. Overall I really like it. It's just a touch
| laggy. So for example if you press esc then try to do a
| normal mode command, sometimes your key presses still go
| into insert mode.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| It's pretty good, although I've found it a bit funky with
| copy/paste/yanking.
| rattray wrote:
| That part of the codebase needs a big overhaul and could
| use finding!
| lucis wrote:
| Try adding "vim.useSystemClipboard": true to your
| VSCode's settings. Works mostly fine for me...
| [deleted]
| itronitron wrote:
| I tried VS Code for over a year and consider it severely
| lacking features that most IDEs had fifteen years ago. GitHub
| should reconsider whether they really want to be reminding
| everyone that MSFT owns them.
| jollybean wrote:
| Yes, they leave this out too often.
|
| And - I find the constant change in configurations very
| confusing, and the plugins also have scant documentation. I
| can tell 'what is installed' but not exactly how they work
| together.
|
| Having tied out JetBrains after years away - I'm now
| permanently back in the IDE camp. For whatever reason they
| are now 'faster' and so the extra bulk of features comes
| pretty much for free, and they are just well optimized for
| whatever you're trying to do.
|
| Java on VSCode is frankly full of little snags. C++ same.
|
| VSCode is a handy go-to tool for quickly looking at code from
| any language.
|
| For pilfering through some open-source Java, Dart, Rust, that
| little C project, Python ... the VS is it.
|
| But for mainline projects, a good IDE is it.
| tmccrary55 wrote:
| Same here. I've been told by various people how fast and
| efficient it is but it uses as much memory as a Windows VM
| and the code completion is screwed up 50% of the time for MS
| tech (and worse for others).
|
| It is usable just not very good, yet.
| symlinkk wrote:
| What features?
| blacktriangle wrote:
| Nope you're not alone, the hype behind VSCode just seems wierd.
| It's not a bad editor by any means, but I can't figure out why
| its any different than the parade of TextMate, Sublime, Atom
| that came before.
| bewuethr wrote:
| The web-based editor doesn't have a terminal, but the full-
| blown codespaces do have one, and they let you import your
| dotfiles (including running a bootstrapping script if necessary
| [1]).
|
| From there, you can run whatever terminal-based editor you
| want, or so the blog post about github.com development having
| moved to Codespaces tells me [2].
|
| But for the lighter-weight web-based editor, it doesn't look
| like it. If you're a CLI person, you could browse using the
| GitHub CLI and clone repos from there to start editing; not as
| convenient as punching a single key to get from viewing in a
| browser to editing, though.
|
| [1]: https://docs.github.com/en/codespaces/customizing-your-
| codes...
|
| [2]: https://github.blog/2021-08-11-githubs-engineering-team-
| move...
| wayneftw wrote:
| Old man here - not sure what VS Code has to do with age, but I
| would rather use it than anything else.
|
| Does it load fast and offer the features I want? Yes. Within
| reason, that's all I care about. I don't know what the perfect
| codebase size is for you (4mb? 16kloc?), but if that matters to
| you I hope you get to use that product.
| Shorel wrote:
| No sir. I jumped on the SublimeText bandwagon long ago, and I
| don't see any reason to change to a slower editor.
| moogly wrote:
| No, even though I like this feature and use it, I normally
| don't use VSCode other than as a text editor for random stuff.
|
| My main drivers are IntelliJ products (WebStorm, Rider, CLion,
| DataGrip...).
|
| VSCode is just too sluggish for me.
| brundolf wrote:
| I'm fully bought-in to VSCode, though I can still appreciate
| the benefits of diversity
|
| Unfortunately I really doubt they'll ever offer alternate
| editors, especially given the technical challenges involved in
| embedding it in the browser, connecting it to whatever hosted
| environment it has, etc.
|
| The best you might hope for is that they'll provide a terminal
| to the workspace, from which I could see text-based editors
| being available (in fact... I wonder if you could do that from
| VSCode's built-in terminal)
| sdze wrote:
| And I still use Netbeans. It really is also not worse than the
| electron monstrosity VS Code (memory/cpu wise).
| Darmody wrote:
| NetBeans is the best free and open source IDE, at least for
| PHP.
|
| It lacks some nice features and improvements that PHPStorm
| has, but it's pretty good overall. There are a couple things
| that NetBeans does better than PHPStorm, though.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Me too, the irony that those that used to bash Swing/Java
| rather use web sites packaged alongside the browser.
|
| At least this way it makes sense, as a pure Web application.
| mbeex wrote:
| > Am I alone in not jumping on the Visual Studio [Code]
|
| These are at least 3 different questions:
|
| 1) Why should I use VS Code in general?
|
| 2) Why should I use VS Code online? (the articles topic)
|
| 3) Why should I use VS?
|
| The answers might turn out completely different.
|
| Personally, I have for my main languages (C++ & Python) full
| IDE's (VS & Wing IDE). For quick Python scripts, VSCode is
| considered an option that I use rather often.
|
| In what VSCode shines is - as also other commenters mentioned -
| his plugin eco-sytem. This has true swiss-knife traits. So I'm
| using it for many secondary and ad-hoc technologies:
|
| - CMake files
|
| - Julia
|
| - GPS files
|
| - JS files
|
| - LaTeX
|
| - JSON
|
| - XML
|
| - CSS
|
| - Markdown (vanilla, asciidoc, ReST)
|
| - remote editing
| SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
| VS is unrelated to VS Code. VS is a full IDE for C++ and C#
| and the other .NET languages (and some other things like C to
| a lesser extent).
|
| VS Code is a decent text editor with a good plugin ecosystem.
| It's faster to start (if it doesn't have too many slow
| plugins) than most IDEs and easier to get used to than vi-
| based editors or EMACS. And unlike Sublime Text it's free.
| Unlike Notepad++ it's cross-platform.
|
| I personally use CLion for C (as well as Markdown, CMake, and
| shell scripts that are part of the same project as the C),
| PyCharm for Python, DataGrip for SQL, and VS Code for various
| text tasks like log file analysis and quick note taking.
|
| It's a handy editor, very useful for ad-hoc work but not
| really advantageous compared to a full IDE for most regular
| day-to-day work IMO.
| mbeex wrote:
| You should probably re-read the quote I was referring to.
| gtirloni wrote:
| Are the other $EDITORS able to run inside a web browser?
| luke2m wrote:
| Phoenix (https://github.com/aicore/phoenix) is working on
| brackets in the browser.
| gedy wrote:
| Man, I loved Brackets (Phoenix is a fork) when it came out.
| Much nicer than Atom, but then VSCode got much better and
| took over most of the mindshare.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Gotta be web-based and only other major one I know of is
| Atom, which was originally started by GitHub and is also
| owned by Microsoft now. Don't know if people are still using
| it much though.
| joshuaissac wrote:
| There was also Adobe Brackets, but it was discontinued
| earlier this month.
| luke2m wrote:
| The community is working on it now at
| https://github.com/brackets-cont/brackets .
| hnlmorg wrote:
| I really liked Brackets for CSS files.
| headmelted wrote:
| Yes, you're alone you luddite (kidding!).
|
| Each to their own really, and honestly not every tool is going
| to be a good fit for every project. I have day work on Visual
| Studio that I wouldn't dream of moving to VSC for a bunch of
| reasons.
|
| The reasons myself and others like VSC also have a lot to do
| with the plug-in ecosystem. More people using it means someone
| has likely already encountered my use case which means it's
| more likely a plugin exists to do what I need.
|
| There are places that live on JetBrains for this reason
| (sprawling homogenous codebases that cross domains and
| languages). Having support to hand not only for the code you
| use most, but every language/framework other folks in your
| organisation use, is a really useful feature for
| integration/debugging work.
| beardyw wrote:
| The range of support is great. I can program and run web
| front end, node, plain C or C++ for desktop, same for
| programming various chips, and ESP (using platformio), all
| from one familiar editor.
|
| I would now feel uncomfortable using anything else.
| whateveracct wrote:
| Nah you aren't. I have tried it multiple times and it's just
| such a worse experience than emacs for me I won't waste my
| time.
|
| IDEA is the same way. Turns out coding isn't about text input
| after all.
| donmcronald wrote:
| I used to use VSCode as a quick editor for small things, but
| the bloat seems to be accelerating. I really like Jetbrains
| editors (and pay for them). My biggest complaint about both
| is how they're so in your face about every little feature. I
| see you have this thing, should I enable feature X for you?
| It looks like you're editing a Docker file. Should I enable
| Docker integration.
|
| I guess I'm a pair programmer with Clippy now :-(
| lvncelot wrote:
| An in-browser (neo)vim instance with a dotfiles repo
| integration would really be something.
| dmurray wrote:
| Firenvim exists for in-browser neovim. I haven't used it.
|
| [0]https://github.com/glacambre/firenvim
| lvncelot wrote:
| I'm currently using firenvim (It's great!), but you need a
| local neovim instance for it to work.
|
| I was thinking of something that would allow you to use any
| machine with a browser.
| reacharavindh wrote:
| Not strictly on point, but a tangential thought...
|
| When are going to get JavaScript accelerators in hardware and
| OSes such that we can have a few tabs with full blown softwares
| like "VSCode IDE", "Slack", "Spotify", "Outlook mail", "Zoom for
| video calls", "Photoshop for your photos in the cloud" and many
| others?
|
| The only thing to install on your client computer being a crazy
| optimised web browser!
|
| May be ChromeOS was ahead of its time.
| andix wrote:
| Chrome/Chromium is kind of an own OS already.
|
| And the direction will probably be WASM instead of Javascript.
| It seems like JS runtimes are not easy to optimize further.
| SquibblesRedux wrote:
| As someone who uses git from the command line, I am finding the
| web-based editor extremely unintuitive and difficult to use for
| common git operations.
| lolive wrote:
| Apart from that [true fact], VSCode being available directly is
| HUGE !
| maxioatic wrote:
| _You can open any GitHub repository in the web-based editor in
| the following ways:
|
| - Pressing the dot ( . ) key while browsing any repository on
| GitHub.
|
| - Change the URL from "github.com" to "github.dev"._
|
| rad
| asicsp wrote:
| > _Pressing the dot ( . ) key while browsing any repository on
| GitHub_
|
| Is there a way to disable this option? (to avoid accidentally
| opening up the editor). Couldn't find info on this from the
| linked page.
| tehbeard wrote:
| Doesn't look like there is, or for any other keyboard
| shortcut on GitHub...
| throwaway47292 wrote:
| It seems we are moving to a world of magic, where developers will
| be alchemists, and only a handful of people will understand
| "physics" or "chemistry" and know what is actually going on in
| the cloud, serverless, fileless, functionless development.
|
| Since google translate and google maps, I always ask myself, what
| is the real price for this very convenient and engaging product.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| While I learned assembly language and machine code and a _tiny_
| bit of electrical engineering in school over 20 years ago, and
| I think it was helpful to have a basic understanding of how
| computers work at that level... I don 't remember the details,
| and certainly haven't had to use them in my career as a
| programmer, and you don't really need to understand this stuff
| to be a solid programmer.
|
| Computers are devices for abstracting, always have been.
|
| If we had to understand everything down to do anything, we'd
| still be at the punchcard stage of computing, and not doing
| anything more sophisticated than was done then.
| ausudhz wrote:
| I see this happening a lot with the young engineers. Very few
| of them really know what's happening under the hoods.
| goto11 wrote:
| Does _anybody_ really know anything which goes on under the
| hood, all the way down to transistors? I think it is half a
| century since this was even possible for a single person.
| philote wrote:
| A degree in Computer Science should teach you most of those
| things.
| throwaway47292 wrote:
| haha maybe Christopher Domas knows :D
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmTwlEh8L7g [x86 god mode]
|
| but there is a difference between knowing vaguely how
| internal combustion engine works versus treating your car
| as a magic box from the future. (which of course now most
| cars are, you can not even disable the tire pressure alert
| after you pump your tires without going to the service
| shop)
|
| I fear that nobody will even teach the fetch-execute cycle
| to our kids.
| goto11 wrote:
| https://nandgame.com is a great introduction to such
| stuff. But that is just a single layer. The problem with
| computing is not that the individual layers are difficult
| to understand, is it the sheer _amount_ of layers.
|
| I follow the rule of thumb that you should understand the
| layer you are working at, and one layer below.
| Understanding all they layers is great, but will take you
| a lifetime.
| kalium-xyz wrote:
| Nandgame is awesome. really like the new levels. Adding
| the relay level made it more grounded in reality and the
| maze is fun.
| debarshri wrote:
| I am pretty much sure engineers from late 70s said the same
| for young engineers. Same for the engineers from 80s for
| those in 90s. And the trend continues. I think servers
| becomes the new processors and the abstraction gets higher
| and higher.
|
| It is the nature of evolution whether you like it or not.
| ausudhz wrote:
| Doesn't change anything. It's still a problem till you've
| to support something that is crucial and only few people
| know about it.
|
| Otherwise we'll end up recalling the retired programmers
| that know cobol because nobody else can fix it anymore.
| pjmlp wrote:
| While true, it also depends pretty much on the quality of
| what the university was teaching during those 3 to 5 years
| of engineering degree.
| throwaway47292 wrote:
| that is of course true
|
| but now we are at a day where "Amazon to remove more
| content that violates rules from cloud service" is on the
| front of hackernews together with "Visual Studio Code now
| available as Web based editor for GitHub repos"
|
| evolution or not, i will revolt, if i think the path its
| taking is harmful. (not that i can do much besides teaching
| my kid to know how computers work haha)
| debarshri wrote:
| True, I agree with you and you have all the rights to
| revolt. But let's say you have an opinion, instead of
| revolting I would say you should push it on the world and
| let the world decision whether they agree with you or
| not. What Amazon and Google is doing is, they are
| enforcing their opinion by luring you into their eco
| system. That's one way to make the world compliant to
| your opinions.
|
| Just revolting in your own universe doesn't get the job
| of changing the course of evolution.
| throwaway47292 wrote:
| i used revolt to be more dramatic :)
|
| i meant i will take action against the evolution, and one
| of the things i can do is spend as much time as i can in
| educating my daughter.
| rapnie wrote:
| > I think servers becomes the new processors
|
| Aren't we talking about "SaaS services outside of your
| control" here?
| pjmlp wrote:
| That is why a proper engineering degree should cover all
| levels.
| jorlow wrote:
| This is the nature of tools, specialization, and how industries
| mature. This is the evolution of software eating the world --
| now it's also eating development itself.
| lolive wrote:
| VSCode in the browser is available as a standalone server [in
| case you need to deploy it in your ways]:
| https://github.com/cdr/code-server
|
| License: MIT
|
| It works insanely well.
| mistercow wrote:
| Haven't we been in that world for a while now? Some of what
| used to be deep magic becomes shallow magic, accessible to far
| more people, while the magic that enables it becomes a deeper,
| darker art. I also don't think this is particularly unique to
| computing, except insofar as computing is inherently more
| accessible than other technologies.
| resizeitplz wrote:
| Just like "scientist" and "engineer" have fractured into many
| specialist disciplines, the same is happening (and has happened
| many times before; when's the last time you wrote assembly?) in
| the disciplines of "computer science" and "computer
| engineering".
|
| There will still need to be experts to continue the building
| and maintenance of services; however, not everyone designing
| web sites or doing data analytics needs to know in intricate
| detail the underpinnings of their tools.
| ericmsimons wrote:
| TL;DR this only lets you edit files, not actually run commands
| since there's no underlying container (unless you pay by the
| minute for Github Codespaces).
|
| This is in contrast to WebContainers which launched a few months
| ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27223012) and enables
| VS Code to run entirely in-browser (including terminal commands)
| using a WebAssembly based operating system.
|
| Source: worked on WebContainer and am CEO of StackBlitz
| vvoyer wrote:
| The amazing part is that it's all divs, spans, CSS and very
| smooth. Congrats!
| raxxorrax wrote:
| Well, nobody uses <table> to render a table because it has so
| much baggage that it is incredible slow (implicit calculations
| for width/height for every cell etc.).
|
| These super fast super browsers we have today? You can kill all
| of them if you render a table with around 500.000 cells.
|
| So yes, many people use divs and spans for the same
| functionality.
| c-cube wrote:
| Wait, can these@ same browsers render a table made of 500,000
| divs + css without crashing?
| raxxorrax wrote:
| Yes, it is much more performant. They would also render it
| as a table, but it would be excruciatingly slow.
|
| Problem is the bloated standard for html tables that
| requires many calculations. This is why any browser-excel
| is implemented with divs.
| sidk24 wrote:
| I am still proud of
| [github1s](https://github.com/conwnet/github1s)
|
| No Credits given :( =>
| https://github.com/conwnet/github1s/issues/346
| SCdF wrote:
| Dude github1s was an outstanding idea, and I use it frequently.
| I'm surprised GH didn't steal it sooner. Sucks they didn't
| credit you or github1s in any way, but I guess at this point
| you've been well and truly sherlocked :-(
| _fat_santa wrote:
| I'd like to think that the Github team saw Github1s and decided
| to bake the feature right into Github.
| habosa wrote:
| github1s is one of my favorite magical UX things in years,
| thank you for making it.
| Kichererbsen wrote:
| was that you? i _love_ github1s. used it a few times. thank you
| so much!
| olingern wrote:
| "." is a common convention meaning the current directory. I
| typically open projects locally with "code ." so I don't view
| this as a complete ripoff; however, a section for "prior art"
| on Twitter and/or the changelog would have been a nice touch
| dleslie wrote:
| Are you alleging that GitHub was aware of this and copied it?
|
| Personally, this is the first that I've heard of 1s, but I'm
| conversely aware that Microsoft has been working on cloud based
| development with vscode for a while now.
| kerng wrote:
| I'm sure even Nat Friedman saw github1s because it was high
| up on HN and he frequents the site.
|
| When I saw github1s on HN a while ago I thought Githuh should
| just hire whoever built that.
|
| Difficult to argue if it was a plain rip-off or not, because
| the idea is somewhat obvious if you work in that space.
|
| BUT, it's amazing to see how innovation is driven by
| individuals and small players faster then large companies -
| because it's a fact that github1s was first!
| mritchie712 wrote:
| github1s has 20k stars, so I'd imagine someone on the team
| saw it. Not saying they "stole it"... it's a pretty obvious
| idea considering MS owns GH and VS code.
| dlisboa wrote:
| I noticed it loads and feels much faster than github.dev.
| Really good job.
| synergy20 wrote:
| how do I start? do I need enterprise account? went to the page
| above and found nowhere I can try out.
| _fat_santa wrote:
| Hit "." on any github repo.
| synergy20 wrote:
| gave up on vscode two years ago and bought jetbrains when I
| need a GUI debugger, but I use vim for daily coding.
|
| just hit . and installed vim plugin and it worked well for
| basic needs, not sure how to get my snippets and some key
| binding there yet, but this does look nice.
| aembleton wrote:
| Navigate to a repo and press the . key
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