[HN Gopher] A remote island's battle against seabird-killing ant...
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       A remote island's battle against seabird-killing ants (2015)
        
       Author : hycaria
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2021-08-31 14:34 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.audubon.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.audubon.org)
        
       | michaelcampbell wrote:
       | Well that's horrifying.
        
         | drdeadringer wrote:
         | I agree.
         | 
         | I also sense a desperate Hollywood clinging to this as a
         | "reboot" to 'Them!'.
        
           | dgritsko wrote:
           | Time to re-read "Leiningen Versus the Ants".
           | http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lvta.html
        
       | withants wrote:
       | with ants
        
       | yardie wrote:
       | Sounds like something I would have signed up for as a fresh
       | college grad who wasn't quite ready to join corporate America.
        
       | EMM_386 wrote:
       | The ants arrived on driftwood, it doesn't seem like there was any
       | unnatural cause.
       | 
       | By trying to save these seabirds, they are actually messing with
       | nature and the evolutionary process of the island.
        
         | didibus wrote:
         | Technically, we're part of the natural ecosystem as well...
        
           | alangibson wrote:
           | Post-Green revolution that's very debatable. We've developed
           | tech to basically exempt ourselves from natural processes and
           | ecosystems. For now at least...
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | But helping the overall ecosystem of the planet. We've made it
         | very difficult for birds and other animals.
         | 
         | It's ok to pick winners when you've already broken everything
         | past the point where it's a healthy planet.
        
           | blix wrote:
           | I don't really feel that maintaining the bird population
           | above the plutonium and chemical weapons landfill really
           | moves the needle on the global ecosystem either way.
           | 
           | This is a vanity project. If they were serious about the
           | global ecosystem they wouldn't be considering insecticides.
        
             | xoa wrote:
             | > _I don 't really feel that maintaining the bird
             | population above the plutonium and chemical weapons
             | landfill really moves the needle on the global ecosystem
             | either way._
             | 
             | Oh, you don't _feel_ that way huh? Never mind little
             | details like
             | 
             | > _" Today more than 5,700 tropicbird pairs nest on the
             | island, or nearly_ half _the estimated global population.
             | "_
             | 
             | Half the global population left! But what is that in the
             | face of your _feelings_? 6 months of intense brutal lonely
             | activity, volunteered in a hazardous zone with little hope
             | of any outside support, that has been extremely successful,
             | and it 's a "vanity project"!? _If_ they were _serious_!?!?
             | Really :(? I 've volunteered for hurricane clean up in
             | terrible totaled mobile parks that were some of the most
             | unpleasant conditions I've ever faced in my life but they
             | were a lot less harsh than this sounds. I got to go home at
             | the end of the day for one. Perhaps if humans hadn't
             | introduced rats and destroyed/taken over habitats for birds
             | worldwide ants sometimes drifting onto an island would be a
             | different thing, but as other comments have said we have.
             | Your comment is upsetting and horribly uncharitable.
        
               | a1369209993 wrote:
               | > Oh, you don't _feel_ that way huh?
               | 
               | > But what is that in the face of your _feelings_?
               | 
               | You know damn well that was a idiomatic way of saying
               | "according to my not-necessarily-infalliable estimation
               | of the relevant information".
               | 
               | > Please respond to the strongest plausible
               | interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one
               | that's easier to criticize.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
               | blix wrote:
               | Human activity currently puts about a million species at
               | risk of extinction [1]. I don't feel picking a few,
               | coincidentally aesthetically pleasing species as winners
               | really moves the needle in terms of the health of the
               | global ecosystem.
               | 
               | Aggressively spraying poisons into the environment has
               | decimated insect populations across the globe and,
               | consequently is also thought to threaten bird populations
               | which eat these insects. It is a short-sighted solution.
               | 
               | The harshness of the conditions for the humans choosing
               | to do this task really has no bearing whatsoever on the
               | task's impact on the global ecosystem. For someone so
               | critical of feelings, that's quite an emotional appeal
               | you have going there.
               | 
               | [1] https://www-nature-
               | com.mines.idm.oclc.org/articles/d41586-01...
        
               | abraae wrote:
               | > I don't feel picking a few, coincidentally
               | aesthetically pleasing species as winners really moves
               | the needle in terms of the health of the global
               | ecosystem.
               | 
               | You have a point. I hate the feel good videos of people
               | rescuing individual koalas from the Australian bush fires
               | and putting ointment on their burns. We've fucked up
               | their entire ecosystem and now we pick one of them and
               | treat it to assuage the sad feelings of millions of
               | humans? Give me a break.
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | It matters to this one.
        
               | allmskio wrote:
               | Some things can only be saved with insecticide in a
               | remote island. That there are "millions" of other
               | threatened species scattered across the globe with all
               | sorts of micro/macro solutions (or lack thereof), is a
               | nonsequiter.
               | 
               | All you seem to be doing is nitpicking a specific small
               | action despite its clearly defined goal and success, when
               | you can't even be bothered to propose a concrete
               | alternative action that would do better with the same
               | resources. Just vagaries and platitudes like "insecticide
               | bad in general".
        
               | blix wrote:
               | > Some things can only be saved with insecticide
               | 
               | So you can say, with absolute confidence, that no other
               | conceivable solution could ever have been effective? I
               | don't know if I'm that confident about anything.
               | 
               | I don't agree with the defined goal or the method; it's
               | more than just a nitpick. My concrete alternative would
               | probably be to do nothing. Or try to mitigate climate
               | change. And insecticides ~are~ bad in general.
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | I think of it like chemo: sometimes you have to use
               | poison to achieve a goal. Apparently this summer they
               | declared victory over the ants.
        
           | minsc__and__boo wrote:
           | Especially when you've unnaturally extended out the atoll
           | multiple times, making it easier for the invasive ants to get
           | a foothold in these endangered bird's natural habitat.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Yeah but I don't give a fuck about nature doing natural things.
         | I give a lot of fucks about ensuring that eco diversity is
         | preserved and right now that means hill climbing. I'm okay with
         | local optima because I know mankind survived in one.
        
         | OneEyedRobot wrote:
         | but birds outrank ants.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | > Notorious invaders likely native to West Africa or perhaps
         | Asia, crazy ants cross the high seas on driftwood or as
         | stowaways on vessels...
         | 
         | It doesn't seem to mention which is the culprit in this case,
         | but it may be an unnatural cause after all - especially given
         | the distance to this island.
        
       | Permit wrote:
       | This article is from 2015. It looks like this year (2021) they
       | announced that they have removed all of the ants from Johnston
       | Atoll National Wildlife Refuge:
       | https://lmtribune.com/outdoors/crazy-ant-strike-team-complet...
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! We've changed the URL to that from
         | https://www.audubon.org/magazine/july-august-2015/one-
         | remote....
         | 
         | Edit: changed back since people made reasonable objections.
        
           | geuis wrote:
           | Is that really the right thing to do? The original article
           | was interesting on its own merits. It's a good follow up that
           | the teams have been successful, but that link probably should
           | just be pinned as a top comment reply.
        
           | jvdvegt wrote:
           | The new URL is not available from Europe (http errorcode
           | 451). This works though: https://archive.st/archive/2021/8/lm
           | tribune.com/dxk9/lmtribu...
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-31 23:01 UTC)