[HN Gopher] How to Paint 50k Miles of Lines
___________________________________________________________________
How to Paint 50k Miles of Lines
Author : scott_s
Score : 75 points
Date : 2021-08-30 13:08 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| petarb wrote:
| I love the story format that this uses
| aeharding wrote:
| American traffic engineers' love for painted bicycle gutters is
| infuriating.
|
| https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/990927016617807872
| zwieback wrote:
| better than no bike lane at all, though. Drivers don't really
| respect the painted bike lanes when there are no bikes around
| but I notice that it does raise awareness that a bike might
| appear
| acomjean wrote:
| They tend to paint them solid green in some massachusetts
| cities. (Especially at intersections.).
|
| Thats a lot of paint.
| [deleted]
| athenot wrote:
| This was a neat set of slides.
|
| Apparently here in the US they use beads of glass sprayed onto
| the wet paint for reflection. It kinda works; but for the longest
| time I wondered why the paint here is nowhere near as reflective
| as the kind used in Europe which has little bumps for sound but
| also better visibility with rain.
|
| https://www.morenoconseil.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SER...
| sbarre wrote:
| What you can use also depends on the weather in the area.
|
| The profiled crew was in Michigan I think(?) where you get snow
| and drastic changes in weather.
|
| That affects the available materials. Can they survive salt and
| freezing, and being scraped by snow plows etc...
| poulsbohemian wrote:
| A few years ago I had a team that worked on software for this -
| it was far more complicated than expected. The hardware, IE:
| trucks with paint equipment, are also far more complicated as
| you've got to get the application of paint just right or else it
| leads to too little (and thus repeat applications) or too much
| (which over the miles becomes big $$$). Also, it's not always
| just paint - it can have reflective material and binders with
| various kinds of textures added as well.
|
| edit: For what it's worth, my impression at the time is that this
| is an industry ripe for disruption. Every city / state / county
| has to deal with road striping. They do it through a combination
| of their own rigging and/or various firms who specialize in this
| stuff - both hardware and software - but where there isn't a
| dominate provider. It's classic B-school stuff: take a cottage
| industry and standardize the process, outperform your competitors
| because of your standardization, and become the monopoly.
| capableweb wrote:
| > my impression at the time is that this is an industry ripe
| for disruption
|
| > outperform your competitors because of your standardization,
| and become the monopoly
|
| I'm not sure what your goal is here, either it's innovation or
| creating a monopoly, but you can't really argue for both at the
| same time.
| sacred_numbers wrote:
| Monopolies are often created through innovation, either
| through lowering costs or increasing quality above
| competitors. Carnegie Steel, for example, used the Bessemer
| process to drastically lower the cost of steel and thus drive
| competitors out of business. Google used innovation to make
| searches much better and faster.
|
| There are certainly other ways to create a monopoly, such as
| regulatory capture, illegal activities, and price dumping,
| but natural monopolies due to superior levels of innovation
| do exist. The reason we generally want to avoid monopolies
| isn't because of the way they are created, it's because of
| the damage they can cause after they are firmly established.
| Arrath wrote:
| > it was far more complicated than expected
|
| I ran into this myself being involved in a highway project
| along the Oregon coast. There was a very fine balance of paint
| reflectivity, traction, and wear resilience that had to be met
| and it turned out it was very, very trick to hit the right
| spot.
|
| E.G., the paint itself has very poor traction characteristics
| when wet, which it often is on the pacific coast. Adding
| texture coatings to it then impacts the reflectivity, but
| reflective additives within the texturizer cause it to wear
| faster..
|
| We were only paving 4 miles, but I saw several inspectors grow
| a lot of gray hair over the course of a few months.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| I spent some time in Germany and something that struck me was
| the omnipresence of the Unimog. It seemed like for every
| outdoor job that can exist, there is an attachment you can bolt
| onto the front of a unimog to do it. Utility trucks are
| relatively highly customized in the states compared to that.
| MisterTea wrote:
| Its a hybrid of a truck and farm tractor. The track width was
| standardized to the width of two rows of planted potatos. It
| was instrumental in the German rebuilding effort after WW2 so
| it sort of became a national point of pride, the vehicle that
| rebuilt Germany.
|
| As to why the hybrid idea never made it to the USA is the USA
| did not suffer continuous allied bombings and therefor had no
| need to develop a multipurpose vehicle. The Unimog replaced
| two vehicles thus being very convenient and cost effective in
| post war Germany. A single vehicle could till fields, haul
| crops, haul building materials, and plow snow. USA had all of
| those things already. Why reinvent the wheel?
| mauriciolange wrote:
| Without the paywall:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20210829143611/https://www.nytim...
| grecy wrote:
| While driving around Africa and the length of the Americas I
| really did see guys lying on moving flat decks using paint
| brushes to paint road lines. The 8 year old in me was pretty
| excited!
| mastax wrote:
| One of the big changes happening in the industry is increasing
| collection of road line quality data. Previously we'd use
| handheld meters to spot check pavement markers. The new state of
| the art is to use continuous laser scanners attached to vehicles
| to measure all of the pavement markers on the road. This data is
| used to identify what areas need to be re-striped, to see how
| different materials fare in different conditions over time, and
| to submit warranty claims when things aren't up to spec.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I'm surprised Tesla (or similar data collection fleets, like
| Google Street View) isn't measuring this and offering it to
| road authorities as a dataset. They have 1 million+ vehicles
| traversing roads daily, and they're already collecting labeled
| data (10 second video clips) for Dojo. Lane markings directly
| impact quality of driving assistance experience, so vehicle
| manufacturers have a vested interested in high quality
| road/lane markings.
| Dangeranger wrote:
| Transit authorities care most about the quality of the data
| and the chain of control over the data from collection to QA
| and finally to delivery.
|
| Most commercial LiDAR trucks are accurate down to millimeters
| in relative terms and centimeters in absolute position terms.
| The equipment has been certified by approved surveying
| bodies, and there are official records as to that specific
| piece of collection equipment's accuracy and precision.
|
| If any autonomous car company could deliver data to that
| standard then it would be valuable. But to my knowledge none
| of them can, because the accuracy of measurement systems for
| surveying roads at motion are so specialized and expensive.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Do you have any links on the topic you could share? Very
| interested in learning more! I am a bit of a precision
| positioning and fleet data collection wonk.
| joshuaturner wrote:
| Really not a fan of this slideshow style presentation - tons of
| great media sure, but I don't see why that couldn't be inlined or
| at least responsive to scrolling
| TroisM wrote:
| Me neither, and every other page is blank... maybe they were
| ads?
| sbarre wrote:
| Yes there were ads mixed in (not ever other page but you're
| probably just being hyperbolic) and if you have an ad blocker
| they would have been blank.
| athenot wrote:
| Quite the opposite. I really enjoyed the format that shows one
| whole slide at a time instead of seeing content progressively
| reveal via scrolling.
|
| Also keyboard arrows worked, which was a nice touch.
| capableweb wrote:
| > Quite the opposite. I really enjoyed the format that shows
| one whole slide at a time instead of seeing content
| progressively reveal via scrolling.
|
| Sure, but what about content that is always visible that you
| scroll manually to signal your intent to read something, and
| then read where you stop yourself? You know, like a classic
| web page.
| kiliantics wrote:
| > The painters aim for straightness. They relish the crispness.
| They try to tune out impatient drivers who yell or honk or even
| sometimes throw things at them.
|
| What is it about driving a car that turns people who are probably
| otherwise normal adults into literal babies. Who screams (honks)
| as loud as they can, without a care for who it might bother?
| Babies. Who throws things at people when they are upset? Babies.
|
| I think the requirements to be licenced to drive should include a
| basic understanding of traffic dynamics. When a person gets in
| your way so you can't speed through the lights and you end up
| waiting at a red, they didn't lengthen your trip at all and are
| not worthy of any directed rage. You were just going to be
| stopped by the next light and get to your destination at around
| the same time. If there is roadwork or an accident, everyone is
| in the same boat and no single person can speed you up or slow
| you down.
|
| We've all collectively just accepted to be subjected to an
| enormous amount of noise pollution and sometimes deadly violence
| on the road simply because people can't understand and/or accept
| the realities of how driving infrastructure works. It's kind of
| mind-blowing if you consider it.
| [deleted]
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >What is it about driving a car that turns people who are
| probably otherwise normal adults into literal babies. Who
| screams (honks) as loud as they can, without a care for who it
| might bother? Babies. Who throws things at people when they are
| upset? Babies.
|
| They're not angry at the road crew. They're angry at the state
| police, DOT bureaucrat or whoever that decided to block off way
| more road than was strictly necessary and they're taking it out
| on the road crew. They're angry at the state for making their
| lives harder than strictly necessary and they're taking it out
| on the messenger.
|
| >When a person gets in your way so you can't speed through the
| lights and you end up waiting at a red, they didn't lengthen
| your trip at all and are not worthy of any directed rage
|
| If it never has positive ROI people wouldn't do it. Just
| because people don't share the same reading of the situation as
| you doesn't make them stupid. During peak hours where I live
| missing a light adds more than just that light to the time
| because you now are behind more traffic that just got onto the
| road. So instead of waiting two cycles to get through the next
| light you might wait three, and so on and so on.
|
| >We've all collectively just accepted to be subjected to an
| enormous amount of noise pollution and sometimes deadly
| violence on the road simply because people can't understand
| and/or accept the realities of how driving infrastructure
| works.
|
| One man's "accept the inevitable" is another man's "needlessly
| bend over and take the unnecessary". If people went when the
| light turn green, didn't stop at cloverleafs(!!), etc there's
| be a lot less honking.
| D-Coder wrote:
| > What is it about driving a car that turns people who are
| probably otherwise normal adults into literal babies.
|
| It's like Usenet, or FaceBook. Two layers of glass
| (driver+worker) give people some anonymity and they stop
| treating others with some respect.
| jrwoodruff wrote:
| I read a quote from one of the Sandy Hook parents: Anytime
| you put a machine between people, the person at the other end
| of the machine is dehumanized. I'm paraphrasing here, and
| they were talking about a gun, but I think it holds true for
| cars and computers as well.
| soared wrote:
| It would be nice, but in my opinion it's not caused by being in
| a car. Some people will try to take advantage of any system
| where they won't feel/see negative repercussions. You can call
| it externalities causing global warming or you can call it my
| dad reusing a coupon because the cashier didn't collect it.
| acdha wrote:
| We see it more in cars because of the isolation and
| velocitization: someone running or on a bicycle _can_ be rude
| too but it's far, far less common because they feel like part
| of the community without the isolation of being in a sealed
| metal box kept multiple body-lengths from other people and
| there isn't billions of dollars of design and marketing
| saying that it's all about going 70mph, anyone who doesn't go
| fast is a fool, and everyone else should get out of your way.
|
| I used to car commute & now use bike/transit exclusively. I
| see more people being considerate, apologizing for confusion,
| etc. in a given day than I used to see in a year of driving
| in California. The reduced safety & quality of life isn't
| just because cars are faster - a lot of people just seem to
| do the same thing internet commenters do and let distance
| bring out their worst sides, only they're doing it with
| several tons of metal which can reach killing speed in less
| time than it takes to think.
| oogali wrote:
| Why assume they are otherwise normal adults?
| js2 wrote:
| > The painters aim for straightness. They relish the crispness.
| They try to tune out impatient drivers who yell or honk or even
| sometimes throw things at them. But they know that unless they
| mess up, few will consider their work.
|
| Ah, I know that feeling...
|
| (And what the hell is wrong with someone that gets angry at a
| road crew?)
|
| > When Garza presses a black button spraying white paint on the
| road, it also triggers a second gun behind the paint gun to
| sprinkle tiny salt-size glass beads. If the paint is too thin,
| beads won't stick to it. That means the lines won't reflect
| light.
|
| I don't think they use these beads in the road paint universally.
| The lines here in the piedmont region of NC are virtually
| impossible to see at night, especially when they are wet.
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| >(And what the hell is wrong with someone that gets angry at a
| road crew?)
|
| Come to the UK then. A crew were actually caught working once.
| It made national headlines.
| gumby wrote:
| > (And what the hell is wrong with someone that gets angry at a
| road crew?)
|
| Seems a lot of people feel this way. Haven't you seen those
| "end construction" protest signs? People seem to post them
| almost anywhere crews are working!
| jrwoodruff wrote:
| Contrast that with all the complaining about how bad the
| roads are. Yea, the construction is a pain, but at least I
| connect that with better roads in a few relatively short
| months.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| The beads get scraped off by plows after a couple winters and
| are just as invisible in the wet.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >(And what the hell is wrong with someone that gets angry at a
| road crew?)
|
| They're not angry at the road crew. They're angry at the state
| police, DOT bureaucrat or whoever that decided to block off way
| more road than was strictly necessary and they're taking it out
| on the road crew.
| raman162 wrote:
| I never once considered the amount of engineering it goes into
| painting the lines on the street. I feel it for them, good
| (perfect) work goes un-noticed while bad work is obvious and
| criticized. Also seems like the work requires a lot of focus and
| constant attention. That in combination with physical labor
| sounds really exhaustive.
| jrwoodruff wrote:
| I'm always amazed at the amount of engineering that goes into,
| well, everything. Like how each transmission line tower is
| designed by someone for that specific location, even though the
| overall design looks the same from tower to tower. There's just
| so much to modern life that we take for granted these days.
| raman162 wrote:
| That's true, I guess that is the beauty of an interdependent
| society.
|
| I have this longing thirst to become as independent as
| possible but it just seems pointless considering how far
| we've advanced as a society.
| lights0123 wrote:
| The company I work for has a robotic solution for road painting,
| but we focus on things that would normally require stencils:
| https://roadprintz.com/
| dang wrote:
| Stub comment for off-topic replies to
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356187, which is now
| pinned to the top.
| bArray wrote:
| Thank you.
|
| They really wouldn't need to spend so much on hosting fees if
| they were willing to do a text-only version - the main website
| is heavy as hell. I'm sure many people would be willing to pay
| for it.
|
| Also these days I don't consume regular content from sources
| that do not provide an RSS feed.
| kiba wrote:
| I doubt hosting fee are the bulk of expenses at NYT. More
| likely human labor is the major cost.
| capableweb wrote:
| Knowing how wasteful IT is, especially in large
| organizations, I think the hosting fees are probably higher
| than you think.
|
| I still think you're right though, human labor is likely
| more costly.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Also just turning off javascript with uBlock Origin makes it
| work fine for me.
| 3pt14159 wrote:
| When this becomes common for non-techie forums, I worry about
| what will happen to archive.org. I don't mind paying for news,
| but there really aught to be something better than what we
| have.
| NortySpock wrote:
| The truth is paywalled but lies are free...
| eplanit wrote:
| Thank you. That, plus reader mode, makes it actually readable.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| The presentation has a lot of video you're missing out on by
| using reader mode.
| gumby wrote:
| Unreadable for me as reader mode doesn't work
| kbenson wrote:
| It's a slideshow presentation. Does reader mode usually work
| for those? (honest question, I don't use reader mode often so
| don't really know)
| gumby wrote:
| Most of the time, yes, it does.
|
| Even in most slideshows, much less most articles, the text is
| all I really am interested in anyway.
| dekhn wrote:
| There's a lot of roadwork on 101 in the Bay Area and so I see
| many different lines being painted, scraped up and moved.
| Recently I was curious how my new car, which has automated lane
| keeping, handled various situations, like: 1) no lane markers.
| Just lots of recently paved black asphalt across multiple lanes
| (seen near SF recently). 2) conflicting lane markers. the
| previous markers were "Scraped" physically off the road, leaving
| a large high contrast mark. The new markers weren't painted on
| well, so it was hard to tell which was the new road and the old
| one. 3) various ambiguous areas where lines change from one type
| (solid white to yellow)
|
| The car didn't handle any of those situations well. I had a hard
| enough time with the first two that I'm not surprised.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-08-30 23:01 UTC)