[HN Gopher] Empty Epsilon: a fully open-source spaceship bridge ...
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       Empty Epsilon: a fully open-source spaceship bridge simulator game
        
       Author : marcodiego
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2021-08-29 11:31 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (daid.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (daid.github.io)
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | Artemis (on which this is based, if loosely) is most fun when you
       | have hardware built to simulate the environment of a bridge.
       | 
       | Recently, the most involved bridge setup for Artemis I've ever
       | seen - present at Convergence and other geek conventions in the
       | Midwest - was given up for adoption, owing to its enormous size
       | and the owner's desire to reclaim garage space.
       | 
       | Truly huge, since it was room-sized. I would have liked to take
       | it but I don't have the space.
        
         | emacsen wrote:
         | I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think Artemis
         | is prettier, but the gameplay of EE is far superior.
         | 
         | By prettier, I mean the visuals, the models, the music, etc.
        
       | dragontamer wrote:
       | I played some bridge game at a convention a few years ago with my
       | buddies. I wish I remembered the name... but the main issue was
       | that it wasn't quite "hectic" enough to require so many people to
       | be in so many different roles.
       | 
       | I used to play Starcraft Brood War at low-levels of
       | competitiveness (maybe ~120 APM or so, D-rank Team Liquid. Very
       | low end of competitive). I also enjoy Factorio and Pikmin, so I'm
       | no stranger to multitasking.
       | 
       | Ideally, you want to have a game where so much is going on, that
       | you *NEED* to split up the tasks to multiple teammates. I don't
       | know, maybe have each of the players doing an "Overcook'd" style
       | minigame, trying to do whatever their sections of the ship need
       | to get done.
       | 
       | So the idea is that each player needs to actually focus their
       | mind on their minigame, but _ALSO_ needs to juggle the discussion
       | with the captain / bridge. I can't imagine how a game like that
       | would work, but... sitting around calmly in a "Star Trek" style
       | bridge isn't very fun IMO.
       | 
       | --------
       | 
       | I think we have an issue of expectations vs gameplay. Anything
       | that requires a team of multiple humans would necessarily be
       | incredibly hectic. (See DOTA, Counterstrike, Overwatch, and other
       | team games).
       | 
       | But on the other hand, there are people who want to role-play
       | Star Trek scenarios, which isn't... very realistic from a team
       | perspective. Just as combat in Hollywood is unrealistic (1 vs 5
       | fight is really a sequence of 1 vs 1 fights 5 times in a row:
       | every enemy waiting their appropriate turn with the hero...) Star
       | Trek scenes progress logically and simply, for the audience to
       | follow. Its almost the opposite of the chaos that requires a
       | command structure of any kind.
       | 
       | "Archon" / Team Melee from Starcraft 2 / Starcraft Brood War was
       | also a good bit of fun, since two humans playing 1-commander
       | requires communication (make sure both players are going for the
       | same build), and you naturally figure out how to split up work
       | with your teammate.
       | 
       | ----------
       | 
       | I guess a more appropriate "Bridge" game is "keep talking or the
       | bomb explodes". At least for people who want "my" style of hectic
       | team-based game with difficult communication going on. If someone
       | can amp up the "difficulty" of bridge games up to this level,
       | it'd be more interesting to me.
        
         | mawise wrote:
         | Space Alert[1] (board game) is awesome for that sort of chaos.
         | When I played with friends, we decided we needed a non-player
         | captain to keep us on track even though it isn't in the rules.
         | 
         | [1]: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38453/space-alert
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | > I think we have an issue of expectations vs gameplay.
         | Anything that requires a team of multiple humans would
         | necessarily be incredibly hectic.
         | 
         | I used to develop simulations as part of the combat systems
         | development team of a military ship builder. I have assisted to
         | actual training which I guess you could view as the ultimate
         | bridge simulator. I think the main issue with bridge simulator
         | is that you can't really simulate a bridge without the
         | complexity which requires having multiple people on the bridge
         | but at the time you can't ask your players to follow days of
         | formation before playing.
         | 
         | It seems to me that in the game simpler model, the roles which
         | end up assigned to players are always somewhat arbitrary and
         | convoluted. As they are so artificial, it's not surprising some
         | people end up with little to do.
         | 
         | As an aside, amusingly, all the bridge simulators seem to have
         | user interfaces which are both less user friendly and older
         | looking than the actual ship interfaces I used to work on. I
         | find that endlessly funny.
        
         | trynewideas wrote:
         | Some of the EmptyEpsilon scenarios are very much like this, and
         | many have tunable difficulty settings to increase the number
         | and frequency of things like enemy activity. The enemy AI is
         | extremely simplistic, but the chaos on the bridge tends to
         | balance it out.
         | 
         | Minigames come up pretty often for EE, with one problem being
         | that they aren't fulfilling when there's less to do and
         | overwhelming when there's more. The only station that has them
         | in EE is the Relay/communications station, which models hacking
         | other ships with puzzle minigames.
         | 
         | EmptyEpsilon also has a few PvP scenarios.
        
       | EamonnMR wrote:
       | Of the bridge sims we tried to set up at work, this one was the
       | most successful.
        
       | trynewideas wrote:
       | There's an active forum for bridge sims that's the de facto
       | community space for EmptyEpsilon:
       | https://bridgesim.net/categories/emptyepsilon
       | 
       | There's a Discord that assembles online games run by United
       | Stellar Navy (it's officially an role-playing community, but the
       | EmptyEpsilon games aren't heavy on it):
       | https://www.unitedstellarnavy.net
       | 
       | They organized a few 50+ player games last year, which have some
       | videos on YouTube. A bit chaotic without context, but if you want
       | to see the upper scope of gameplay:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHExJWYB8CM
       | 
       | EmptyEpsilon also has traction as a LARP platform, thanks in
       | parts to being pretty straightforward to modify in source, using
       | Lua to script scenarios, and having a rudimentary optional HTTP
       | API to trigger scenario events, manipulate game state, and
       | control player stations.
       | 
       | A Finnish group used EE in their large 2019 LARP event Odysseus:
       | http://www.odysseuslarp.com
       | 
       | The custom backend for the tech, which included several systems
       | and physical interfaces outside of EE that interfaced with the
       | game, got a good talk at RopeCon:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE7j1SgUpKs
       | 
       | A French LARP scene has an active fork with features more geared
       | toward that usage: https://github.com/tdelc/EmptyEpsilon
        
       | queuebert wrote:
       | Apparently I've been living under a rock. What is up with all the
       | spaceship bridge simulator stories lately?
        
         | dragontamer wrote:
         | These bridge simulator games have been going on for at least 8
         | years, by my count. With rivals setting up shop next to each
         | other in various conventions.
         | 
         | Hacker News does have this thing where if you see one story you
         | like, people often post similar stories in the hours following.
        
           | smcameron wrote:
           | In this case, the same user posted both of them.
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | Recent discussion regarding a similar(?) game:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28343941
        
       | rektide wrote:
       | Not intended as a simulationistic game at all, but one of the
       | funnest multiplayer asymmetric ship combat games I ever played
       | was Subspace, or now, Subspace Continuum[1]. In some game modes
       | you could "join" another ship in the 2d universe, manning a
       | separate set of guns, while the primary pilot flew around &
       | blasted as usual. It was a force multiplier, a blast joining a
       | huge floating blob. But also, all it took was a couple well
       | placed shots & your whole blob was toast!
       | 
       | There's also Guns of Icarus[2], where you are a crew member on a
       | flying steampunk airship. You move around between stations, which
       | let you pilot, shoot, repair systems, which does have more of the
       | asymmetric break down of responsibilities. It sort of feels like
       | you're playing a FTL character, in a 3D, steampunk, desert planet
       | environment.
       | 
       | Overall I think there's a lot of interesting opportunities in
       | asymmetric gameplay, in exploring how to game together by
       | creating different roles that have to collaborate.
       | 
       | [1] https://subspace-continuum.com/
       | 
       | [2] https://gunsoficarus.com/
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | > game together by creating different roles that have to
         | collaborate
         | 
         | Not like any of the games being discussed here, but this made
         | me immediately think of Tribes 2. Each class had a role in
         | winning, and you couldn't win without a team comprised of most
         | of them. (Or maybe you could, but it was very, very difficult.)
        
           | ramses0 wrote:
           | Midair has made the attempt (https://midair.gg/ and "MidAir,
           | Community Edition"), but is focusing on light-armor "capture
           | the flag". They have a lot of the other "stuff" implemented,
           | but it isn't/wasn't balanced by the time I got out of it.
           | 
           | VGG!
        
         | Tyr42 wrote:
         | Lovers in a dangerous spacetime is also a fun couch coop with
         | different roles in a 2D spaceship.
         | 
         | Each of the 4 weapons platforms faces a different direction, so
         | you need to run around to cover everything. And then there are
         | engines and shields and the map and superweapon
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-30 23:00 UTC)