[HN Gopher] Fake animal rescue videos have become a new frontier...
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       Fake animal rescue videos have become a new frontier for animal
       abuse
        
       Author : miles
       Score  : 140 points
       Date   : 2021-08-29 20:34 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nationalgeographic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nationalgeographic.com)
        
       | hellbannedguy wrote:
       | Leave kids, and animals, out of your narcisstic filthy Lucre
       | videos.
       | 
       | I was glad when that aussie was stabbed in the heart by a Batray.
       | 
       | And yes--I know it's complicated in his case.
       | 
       | Sorry, but any exploitation of animals bother me, along with
       | phony nonprofits.
        
         | PretzelPirate wrote:
         | > Sorry, but any exploitation of animals bother me, along with
         | phony nonprofits.
         | 
         | Make sure you don't ignore the exploitation and abuse that's
         | inherent in the animal agriculture industry. Don't consume or
         | use animal products if you want to avoid supporting animal
         | abuse.
        
       | rozab wrote:
       | When I first tried out TikTok a while back, the initial set of
       | videos I was 'seeded' with included a great deal of really
       | shocking animal abuse videos (dogs that had been buried in mud or
       | concrete and are 'rescued', lots of animals being cooked or eaten
       | alive, etc). I didn't interact with anything in the app but as
       | these made me pause in shock, it lead me down a rabbit hole of
       | them. Just another example of how optimising for attention is a
       | horrible idea.
        
         | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
         | Animals being eaten is not unethical. If anything killing
         | strays and eating them is actually better since the animal is
         | not just being killed for pest control. We westerners just like
         | to think eating dogs is somehow evil when you look at the last
         | hundred years because of war, it was way more common than you'd
         | think. I personally wouldn't advocate eating them, but, there
         | is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
        
           | kayodelycaon wrote:
           | I think eating an animal before you killed it is just a bit
           | barbaric...
        
             | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
             | The Japanese do it with fish and other sea creatures...
        
               | rewq4321 wrote:
               | How could you possibly think that this makes it ethical?
               | This is a troll-level comment, but somehow I think you're
               | being earnest. _Please_ sit back and reflect on what you
               | 're saying here. If it's because you don't think that
               | animals can suffer, then read this: https://en.wikipedia.
               | org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Cambridge...
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | don't animals also feel pain when they're killed hours
               | before being eaten? i mean i'm not advocating for eating
               | live squid but i really can't see how the alternative is
               | better for the squid.
        
       | thaumasiotes wrote:
       | nationalgeographic.com is an obnoxious website. It will pop up a
       | "give us your email address" overlay, which you can safely
       | delete. You can resume reading the article by removing the style
       | attribute that has been applied to the <body> tag.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | Get BehindTheOverlay revival.
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | > which you can safely delete
         | 
         | Sounds a lot less obnoxious than most.
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | Reader mode works wonders.
        
       | beervirus wrote:
       | > Enter your email address to continue reading
       | 
       | Get fucked. Good thing reader view works.
        
       | webwielder2 wrote:
       | YouTube only ever recommends to me videos about debunking fake
       | videos instead of the fake videos themselves. Does this mean I'm
       | savvy?
        
         | BoiledCabbage wrote:
         | No, but it likely leverages your ego/insecurity in thinking
         | you're more savvy than the average person.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | blondin wrote:
       | i made it a rule to mark "not interested" any video "the dodo"
       | puts out there. among many others. something just doesn't seem
       | right with them as a whole.
       | 
       | and yet youtube keeps recommending and encouraging these kind of
       | channels.
        
         | colanderman wrote:
         | The Dodo is one of the few that feels legitimate to me. Most of
         | their videos are just of animals that live with rehabilitators.
         | I don't think I've seen any videos from them of animals in
         | dangerous situations being "rescued". (If anyone knows anything
         | to the contrary please share though.)
        
           | h4l0 wrote:
           | I agree with you. Most of their stories usually span a year
           | or two, meaning that they cannot be fabricated. The Dodo is
           | way more legitimate than anything discussed in the article.
        
           | blondin wrote:
           | legitimacy is not the issue. being legit doesn't make their
           | videos right.
           | 
           | "the dodo" has a video of an abused dog out there (that i am
           | not going to link to) that has made countless of views since
           | it came out and is still making views.
           | 
           | replace dog with child and that video would have gotten taken
           | down.
        
             | rewq4321 wrote:
             | You're arguing that abuse should be hidden? For many people
             | (including myself), they first found out about terrible
             | happenings in the world via YouTube videos, and besides
             | this education being important for better understanding the
             | world, it actually motivates them to do something about it.
             | 
             | That said, if there is a possibility that the footage has
             | been produced by intentionally harming an animal then it
             | should obviously be taken down - and that's what the linked
             | article is about.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | I'd argue that the success of The Dodo helps drive the
               | success of the nastier copycats as people seek out or are
               | recommended their content too.
        
         | 65 wrote:
         | Seems to me like YouTube doesn't really care if you press "not
         | interested" next to a video.
         | 
         | I keep explicitly telling Youtube that no, I am not interested
         | in watching Shark Tank videos. And yet... they keep
         | recommending them to me. The videos probably have very high
         | engagement so it basically doesn't matter if I want to watch
         | them or not, Youtube is going to keep pestering me until I
         | click. I never click, but it's still annoying.
        
       | assface wrote:
       | Pig Rescues Baby Goat
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=g7WjrvG1GMk
        
         | Wistar wrote:
         | Okay, THAT would be hard to stage.
        
           | psyklic wrote:
           | "Nathan stages a viral video of a pig saving a drowning baby
           | goat in order to make Oakland petting zoo an international
           | destination." - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noTz20TB714
        
             | DrewClacksila wrote:
             | I immediately ctrl-f'd "nathan" after opening the comments.
        
       | nathanvanfleet wrote:
       | This world is a never ending nightmare.
        
         | habeebtc wrote:
         | Youtube is a never ending nightmare.
        
           | yadaeno wrote:
           | Anything that relies on advertiser revenue and uses an
           | algorithm to maximize revenue is a nightmare.
        
             | ffggvv wrote:
             | even if you don't rely on ads, having more views will
             | always be desirable. netflix optimizes as much for playtime
             | as youtube does because the more someone uses it, the less
             | likely they'll cancel it.
             | 
             | even "yellow journalism" newspapers in the past or tabloids
             | are the same thing.
             | 
             | and algorithms make it more possible at scale but aren't
             | what's causing the issue either
        
         | arglebarglegar wrote:
         | it doesn't have to be, youtube doesn't need to publicize like
         | and review counts, for example
        
         | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
         | Yeah, it's frankly lead to me often thinking that were AI to
         | take over and attempt to exterminate humanity I might be on
         | their side.
        
           | LurkingPenguin wrote:
           | AI isn't needed. Between plagues, the effects of climate
           | change, etc., Mother Nature has this covered.
        
       | hfkktntnrfn wrote:
       | I see on FB a different kind of fake animal rescue videos, with
       | only a single animal - something like saving a cat stuck in wet
       | concrete, or a dog who "fell" down a drain, videos with tens of
       | millions of views. It's pretty obvious if you watch them that the
       | person filming them put the animals in that situation in the
       | first place.
        
         | rewq4321 wrote:
         | There is a very deep rabbit hole of this content, and the ones
         | that are staged "well" can have millions of views, but if you
         | click into the channel and go through their other content, you
         | quickly see that they're pumping out these videos every few
         | days - always with the same camera/resolution, the same
         | voices/languages and rough geographic locations. Very clearly
         | monetized animal torture.
         | 
         | There are dozens of channels specifically based around
         | torturing baby monkeys - either pretending to save it from a
         | dog (after filming it being bitten and shaken in the dogs mouth
         | for several minutes), or putting it through other forms of
         | abuse under the guise of "looking after" it. There are
         | people/groups trying to fight against this[0], but YouTube has
         | ignored them for years.
         | 
         | But it even gets worse than that - a second "revenue stream"
         | for these people involves private facebook groups full of
         | people who enjoy watching baby monkeys getting tortured and
         | killed, and will pay people to have them record videos of
         | it.[1][2][3]
         | 
         | [0] Recent petition that I just found via Google, but there are
         | many groups trying to bring attention to this:
         | https://www.change.org/p/youtube-make-youtube-stop-all-anima...
         | 
         | [1] https://www.ccn.com/youtube-has-a-vile-monkey-torture-
         | commun...
         | 
         | [2] NSFL:
         | https://twitter.com/protect_wldlife/status/14243019790446141...
         | 
         | [3] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14032495/youtube-baby-
         | monkeys-...
        
         | tommica wrote:
         | Oh crap, I've not thought of that before... That is so obvious
         | on hindsight, of course some people would do that >:(
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Wistar wrote:
           | My wife and I just came to this same realization. There's
           | just too many of these polished rescue videos to be real.
        
       | foxfired wrote:
       | The medium is the message. When on YouTube, act like youtubers.
       | It didn't start this way but as the platform has matured, content
       | creators converged on what works.
       | 
       | It's the same way you can tell a video is from tiktok even if the
       | watermark is removed.
        
       | h4l0 wrote:
       | PaymoneyWubby made a video about this like 2 years ago
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mvVQCl8fIg . Nothing has changed
       | since then. People will keep buying into this until platforms
       | intervene.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ceilingcorner wrote:
       | If I found an animal on the side of the road, I don't think the
       | first thing I'd do is whip out my camera and record it. So these
       | types of videos always seemed inherently fake to me
       | 
       | But I'm not a big social media user, so maybe it's normal to
       | immediately record anything out of the ordinary?
        
         | TheCowboy wrote:
         | It's actually the first thing I do because the chances of the
         | lost pet allowing you to approach are usually not great. This
         | gives me a better chance of getting a good shot or two I can
         | post on Nextdoor.
        
         | kfoley wrote:
         | > so maybe it's normal to immediately record anything out of
         | the ordinary?
         | 
         | It does does seem to be fairly normal today. I once witnessed a
         | woman struck by a car on a busy street. It was shocking to see
         | how many people had their phones out and were filming the poor
         | woman on the ground. There was thankfully some people trying to
         | contact an ambulance and assist her.
         | 
         | Likewise I'm always amazed how many videos there are on the
         | news from kids in locked down classrooms during school
         | shootings. It's a different situation obviously since they're
         | filming their own suffering as opposed to someone else's but
         | it's still surprising to me.
        
       | jimjames88 wrote:
       | Paywall
        
       | ve55 wrote:
       | I spent some time looking at Youtube reccommendations in fresh
       | browser session (no cookies or account) yesterday and was
       | contiually amazed by the types of videos that would often have
       | 10M or even 100M views. The clickbait styles used by nearly all
       | large channels have gotten so amazingly efficient that it seems
       | like they near-perfectly pinpoint various biases and draws in our
       | psyche now, and looking at the large categories of different
       | genres of suggestions was an almost surreal experience in how
       | similarly they targeted potential viewers. A lot of the content
       | was obviously fake, and much of what was not obviously fake was
       | significantly exaggerated for obvious reasons, with the method of
       | exaggeration varying according to the genre of content.
       | 
       | I spent a lot of time thinking about the platform as a whole
       | after this, about all of the both wonderful and terrible changes
       | it causes for our world. Some sections of YouTube are not just
       | equivalent to television, but much worse and clearly actively
       | harmful, but other sections are so amazing (educational content
       | being one of the best examples imo) that it would be far too
       | careless to dismiss the platform or its incentives as inherently
       | bad.
       | 
       | I suppose the best we could hope for is that we find some ways to
       | improve the viral algorithms (and incentive structures that
       | produce them) that control our Internet ecosystem over time,
       | because there _are_ better ways to align incentives with the
       | goals of humanity than we are currently doing, even if it is hard
       | to get there. I often find that society actually _does_ really
       | care about and improve on these issues, but the reason why it is
       | often easier to be pessimistic is because the changes that we
       | make in response often occur very slowly, often over the span of
       | decades even.
        
         | overcast wrote:
         | YouTube allowing creators to change Title and Thumbnails as
         | many times as they want after a video has been uploaded, and
         | providing realtime analytics after a change is what is driving
         | this. They basically are constantly optimizing, until they find
         | what sticks. The crap you describe obviously does very well.
         | Veritasium does a great video on this.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2xHZPH5Sng
        
         | dv_dt wrote:
         | Though one might also wonder if there is some source of
         | artificial click views which could be employed by some
         | channels.
        
         | bsedlm wrote:
         | > incentive structures
         | 
         | this. I'm pretty sure current incentives from an era of
         | capitalist (based on industrial manufacture) are just not good
         | at software and digital goods in general.
         | 
         | However, the exclusive ownership paradigm is so ingrained in
         | our civilization that it'll take a long time for humanity to
         | even properly consider other possibilities.
        
         | akomtu wrote:
         | It sounds like YouTube has become a petri dish (in a bad sense)
         | for ideas. I wonder if at a high level, the growth and
         | evolution of certain type of videos resembles fungi.
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | Pretty good take on all this here:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2xHZPH5Sng
        
         | james-skemp wrote:
         | Veritasium did a video about this recently, actually. I got the
         | picture and didn't finish it, but it helped me realize how
         | YouTube has pushed junk to me, despite trying to subscribe to
         | quality channels.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/S2xHZPH5Sng
        
           | asddubs wrote:
           | i wish there was a crowdsourced browser addon like
           | sponsorblock that just blocked any video with a thumbnail
           | with a surprised face
        
         | download13 wrote:
         | Removing recommendation systems entirely, for now, would be a
         | massive improvement, but that won't happen because none of us
         | get input into that decision.
         | 
         | The people who make it have only profit to consider, and the
         | recommendation system gets them more profit.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | There is no way YouTube could work without a recommendation
           | system. The volume is so huge you would get lost in the
           | middle of videos of kids posting gameplay sessions for their
           | friends.
           | 
           | You can get good recommendation, but you have to let YouTube
           | track you, if you are the kind with no account and block
           | every tracker, you will get the stuff that is the most
           | generic and gets the most clicks, because that's the default.
           | It is good if you want to do a sociological study, but it is
           | unlikely to match your tastes because the algorithm doesn't
           | know your tastes.
           | 
           | I guess that if you really don't like the YouTube
           | recommendation system, you can add a few rules to your
           | favorite ad blocker, the tag ids are not obfuscated.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | Not that it would ever make business sense, but ceasing click-
         | based monetization in favor of Patreon-style monetization would
         | do a pretty good job of getting rid of the bad stuff without
         | getting rid of the good stuff. Most of the quality YouTubers I
         | know of use Patreon already.
        
           | ratww wrote:
           | Yes, but I'd say that's true for everything on the web.
           | Advertisement is like a reverse Midas touch. Everything
           | relying on it is on a race to the bottom.
        
             | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
             | > Advertisement is like a reverse Midas touch. Everything
             | relying on it is on a race to the bottom.
             | 
             | Not necessarily though - I can think of plenty of partially
             | ad-supported media and publications that have retained
             | their reputation for quality for decades or even centuries,
             | for example, _The Economist_ and the BBC World Service News
             | channel.
             | 
             | ...the thing is that the aforementioned don 't generally
             | run mass-market ads: the kinds of ads you see in the
             | Economist or in-between World Service news segments is
             | stuff like Rolex watches, Credit Suisse, and Chase Private
             | Client Banking.
        
               | BoiledCabbage wrote:
               | The two examples you chose, demonstrate the opposite of
               | your point.
               | 
               | One is a subscription service, meaning they aren't
               | reliant on their advertising for most of the finances.
               | 
               | The other is a quasi-govt entity, whose funding comes
               | substantially from a tv license fee.
        
               | ratww wrote:
               | Yeah, those are the exceptions, though, and god knows how
               | long they're gonna last. The effect of algorithmic
               | advertisement and pay-per-impression/click is visible
               | even on reputable newspapers: lots of them are resorting
               | to clickbait because that's what generates pageviews.
        
               | mey wrote:
               | Are they the exception to the rule? It's not like The
               | Economist is free.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | I wonder what a Twitch-like model would look like if
           | subscriptions were 10-25x lower (~$.40) so that you could
           | support a handful of your favorite creators without breaking
           | the bank. I bet a system like that would scale better
           | globally.
        
           | SavantIdiot wrote:
           | If a YouTuber uses Patreon only, does that mean they don't
           | get checks? Or they just don't apply for the sweet free
           | monies? (Or are their followings so small they don't
           | qualify?)
        
             | oakesm9 wrote:
             | Some channels such as No Clip (games documentaries) run
             | with no adverts and only make money through Patreon. They
             | have almost 650k subscribers and 45.5 million views, so
             | they're explicitly doing it to be ad-free.
        
           | rewq4321 wrote:
           | Except that this whole "fake animal rescue" industry is
           | _deeply_ tied to the  "paid animal torture" industry (which
           | already has patreon-style facebook groups). It's the same
           | people recording the videos - just two different types of
           | content that they make. I provide links and some explanation
           | here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28350858
        
           | strulovich wrote:
           | I think the idea that subscription based monetization would
           | turn out better is wishful thinking. What will prevent people
           | from making channels of this horrible videos and get paying
           | customers? Or what makes you think people will pay for
           | educational videos more?
           | 
           | People subscribe to reality TV channels and plenty of guilty
           | pleasures. OnlyFans is booming and so forth.
           | 
           | You may be correct, but I would love to see anything besides
           | our wishful thinking that this would necessarily breed better
           | content.
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | Continuing our rapid descent into the strangest and most
       | mundanely-evil dystopia.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-29 23:01 UTC)