[HN Gopher] Boys in Custody and the Women Who Abuse Them
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Boys in Custody and the Women Who Abuse Them
Author : anchpop
Score : 86 points
Date : 2021-08-29 20:23 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.propublica.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.propublica.org)
| belorn wrote:
| > "But he also said that, in some cases, both female guards and
| the boys they molest share some responsibility.
|
| > "There's no such thing as consensual sex when you are
| supervising someone, regardless of their age, but the reality of
| it is that some of the guys in prison are very persuasive and
| some of the women are very persuasive," Wilkinson said."
|
| I guess we are still have a very long way to go on the cultural
| part of defining victim and perpetrator.
| fortran77 wrote:
| Women get away with too much in our society. Few take female
| abuse of men seriously. If we want real "equality" they have to
| bear the consequences of sexual misconduct.
| burnished wrote:
| Why are you framing this oppositionally against women? It's
| weird.
| shephardjhon wrote:
| Have you not seen this pattern when any social topic comes
| up on this site? The right wing kneejerk reactions come in,
| they dont want to solve the problem, they just want to
| blame "the other" to enrage people.Thats why he has to
| attack women instead of just defending the boys or talking
| about the abuse.
| dleslie wrote:
| I know it's uncool to do this, but I'm gender-swapping it and I
| simply can't imagine someone making a statement like this
| regarding statutory rape and being able to keep their job
| afterward:
|
| > "There's no such thing as consensual sex when you are
| supervising someone, regardless of their age, but the reality
| of it is that some of the girls in prison are very persuasive
| and some of the men are very persuasive,"
|
| These boys are being raped. It doesn't matter if they're
| perceived to be instigators, it is incumbent upon the staff to
| show them that there are boundaries that should not be crossed.
|
| At the very least, juvenile victims of sexual assault are more
| likely to become adult perpetrators. Tolerating rapists
| operating as guards in male prisons will likely result in the
| creation of future rapists.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| It's fun to think in black-and-white terms like this but
| surely you can understand that there are (infrequently) gray
| scenarios that come up where your simplistic morality falls
| apart.
|
| I agree with your theory but I would never blindly convict
| someone based on it in practice.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _At the very least, juvenile victims of sexual assault are
| more likely to become adult perpetrators._
|
| Do you have a citation for that?
|
| I'm aware of head injuries playing a role in a lot of
| terrible crimes, but I've not heard this assertion before
| that victims of sexual assault are at greater than average
| risk of becoming rapists themselves.
| dleslie wrote:
| Sure, it's called the victim-to-perpetrator cycle; first
| thing that came up for me was the Government of QC fact
| sheet:
|
| https://www.inspq.qc.ca/en/sexual-assault/fact-
| sheets/sexual...
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Thank you.
|
| But quotes from your own source:
|
| _While a history of sexual victimization seems to be one
| of the risk factors that predispose an individual to
| commit sexual assault, it does not provide sufficient
| explanation for most instances of this type of assault.
| There is relatively little evidence that the victim-to-
| perpetrator cycle is a major factor in sexual assault._
|
| These boys should be protected from being raped because
| they shouldn't be raped. Period.
| dleslie wrote:
| It's a factor, not a major factor.
|
| Further on in the document, it states:
|
| > Experts maintain that, in the case of males, being
| sexually abused in childhood is an important risk factor
| for committing sexual assault later on in life, but that
| it is not the only risk factor that plays a role in the
| perpetration of sexual assault.
| phone8675309 wrote:
| Very true. I'm a survivor of woman-on-boy sexual assault, and
| it's hard to talk about with people because the typical
| response to it is this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hdbns1Xdk0
|
| I assure you, it's not nice.
| kevingadd wrote:
| People will go to any lengths to blame abuse on the abused
| instead of the abuser if it means they don't have to make
| changes to society :(
|
| The tendency of some to frame this sort of thing as good for
| boys (a sign of maturity, manhood, etc) makes it worse, kids of
| any gender should feel safe and not be pressured by adults into
| doing something they don't want to do or aren't ready for.
| golemiprague wrote:
| Women and men are different and in many cases men will not feel
| raped but rather that they "scored" with the warden. We need to
| focus on cases when men actually get raped by wardens or other
| inmates rather than trying to prove some false feminist talking
| points.
| [deleted]
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| " Drawing on their sample, Justice Department researchers
| estimate that 1,390 juveniles in the facilities they examined
| have experienced sex abuse at the hands of the staff supervising
| them, a rate of nearly 8 percent. Twenty percent who said they
| were victimized by staff said it happened on more than 10
| occasions. Nine out of 10 victims were males abused by female
| staff."
|
| It also puts the famous kickbacks for jailing kids in a whole
| other, revolting light.
| excalibur wrote:
| Stripping prisoners, teenagers, and teenage prisoners of the
| legal ability to consent to sexual activity is itself a form of
| sexual abuse.
| kevingadd wrote:
| Consider whether this assertion is remotely relevant in a
| discussion of sexual abuse in prisons?
| DangitBobby wrote:
| It seems that they are saying the prisoners apparent consent,
| which is being denied outright, should not be denied. If so,
| it would be relevant, since the entire discussion of abuse
| hinges on it being abuse.
| hackinthebochs wrote:
| This seems analogous to the manipulator thought experiment
| in the free will debate. Imagine a scenario such that,
| should you choose or intend to choose X, some advanced
| manipulation will kick in and force you to choose Y. But in
| fact you chose Y and the manipulation did not kick in. Are
| you responsible for choosing Y?
|
| If you think you freely chose Y in the above scenario, it
| seems one can freely consent even in coercive contexts. The
| issue is the law adjudicating between consent and coercion
| in such scenarios. However, if the presumed victim is not
| contesting consent, I find it hard to see a problem.
| lkrubner wrote:
| Completely irrelevant when the conversation is about the
| relationship between the powers of the state and the
| protections afforded citizens who've been accused or proven
| guilty of crimes.
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| It isn't ever sexual abuse to refuse to fuck someone.
| DangitBobby wrote:
| What? Where did that come from?
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| It isn't sexual abuse for a jailer to not fuck the people
| they're jailing. Describing it as abuse because of the
| logic that people who are in prison can't reasonably non-
| coercively consent to sex with the people who are
| controlling every aspect of their life doesn't make sense
| in the context that it isn't abuse to not have sex.
| DangitBobby wrote:
| That's not at all what the original comment said. It
| said, to paraphrase, that denying teenage boys their
| sexual agency is itself a form of abuse. I have no idea
| where you even got your original idea.
| infogulch wrote:
| Yes, but GP's assertion is that it's sexual abuse when a
| _third party_ interferes to prevent consenting individuals
| from participating in sexual activity.
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| It still isn't sexual abuse to prevent someone from having
| sex with someone else either.
| infogulch wrote:
| But it's not nearly as clear-cut as your original
| statement. Like, there's no story that would convince me
| that refusing sex with someone is somehow sexual abuse
| (well there is marriage, but the accepted recourse there
| is divorce). And, generally, preventing other consenting
| individuals from having sex would would fall under 'being
| an asshole' at worst not 'sexual abuse', but maybe
| there's some circumstance where the former could be
| elevated to the latter. My point is that the implied
| certainty of your statements higher than warranted.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _encouraging male teens to understand such sex is, in fact, a
| crime, that it is never really consensual_
|
| Statutory rape. Something a lot of people have difficulty
| comprehending as actually _rape._
|
| Of course, the world still tends to imagine rape as a violent
| crime. In many cases, it's not. Date rape is another variation of
| this problem.
|
| _women forcing males into sex does not comport with society's
| conventional definition of rape._
|
| Last I checked, in far too many cases, the legal definition of
| _rape_ literally makes it a crime that cannot be committed by a
| woman. Though hopefully that 's changing.
| Ceezy wrote:
| < Last I checked, in far too many cases, the legal definition
| of rape literally makes it a crime that cannot be committed by
| a woman. Or by anybody, unfortunately. But this is also the
| institution never wanting to be accountable for its errors.
| These people place is a jail. Will see if they consent to have
| sex with their own prison guard.
| eigengrau5150 wrote:
| This isn't abuse. This is rape. Let's call it what it is and
| eradicate it.
| NewAcc1234 wrote:
| They both spent a lot of time together and there is nothing
| else to do (flirt with). I prefer to deescalate this over your
| approach of over escalating it!
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(page generated 2021-08-29 23:01 UTC)