[HN Gopher] Air Independent Propulsion Could Create Silent Kille...
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Air Independent Propulsion Could Create Silent Killer Submarines
Author : jdmark
Score : 19 points
Date : 2021-08-29 19:28 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (nationalinterest.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (nationalinterest.org)
| shadilay wrote:
| >Could
|
| >In the 1990s, submarines powered by Air Independent Propulsion
| (AIP) technology entered operational use. Though the concept
| dated back to the 19th century and had been tested in a few
| prototype vessels, it was left to Sweden to deploy the first
| operational AIP-powered submarine, the Gotland-class, which
| proved to be stealthy and relatively long enduring. The 60-meter
| long Gotlands are powered by a Stirling-cycle engine, a heat
| engine consuming a combination of liquid oxygen and diesel fuel.
|
| AIP is not new and has been operational for decades.
| HPsquared wrote:
| Things move pretty slowly in the world of naval architecture.
| tomjen3 wrote:
| Those Gotland class submarines are another tier entirely
| compared to other submarines, so I don't think it is fair to
| dismis this entirely as having been operational for decades.
| pge wrote:
| The first Gotlands were launched in 1995, and I'm fairly
| certain that German-made diesel subs (Type 209s) were being
| retrofitted with Stirling engines well before the Gotlands
| begin construction in 1992.
| ju-st wrote:
| (2018)
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| What kind of submarines don't kill?
| teekert wrote:
| Why can't AIP create silent non-killer submarines?
|
| I imagine if you're studying life in the deep ocean, a silent
| submarine is nice.
| gpm wrote:
| AIP isn't quieter than a batter powered submarine, it's
| quieter than a nuclear powered submarine.
|
| Unless you're doing ridiculously long research dives (in
| which case batteries don't suffice), or you care about noise
| on the surface (where you would use a traditional air burning
| diesel engine to recharge) it doesn't seem like this brings
| any advantages.
| gpm wrote:
| Research submarines?
| BoxOfRain wrote:
| I heard Greece was planning to do tourist dives of the wreck
| of HMHS _Britannic_ (Titanic 's almost as ill-fated sister
| ship) in the Aegean via submarines, but I'm not sure if
| anything came of that. The wreck is remarkably well-preserved
| and in far shallower water compared to her sister.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| 'Hunter Killer', or just 'Killer', is a different role to
| 'Subsurface Ballistic Nuclear', so not all submarines are
| 'Killer'.
|
| The 'largely around coastal waters' (littoral) should hint at
| this.
| [deleted]
| ggambetta wrote:
| Hmmm. Better get some satellites above Polyarny, just in case.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| Here is a brief (3 minute) silent video that explains what AIP
| is:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rBL54Hdixw
|
| AIPs are a _big_ competitor to replace diesel submarines for the
| reasons the article sets out. Nuclear has superior performance,
| but the costs aren 't in the same ballpark as either AIP or
| diesel (particularly cost to do nuclear safely).
|
| I could see the US retiring out a handful of nuclear subs and
| replacing them with AIPs simply as a cost saving measure (e.g.
| SSBN mission). It would reduce the cost of the submarine fleet
| while saving face in terms of sub count and on-paper capabilities
| (although then we go down the rabbit-hole of "is the US sub fleet
| oversized?").
| jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
| > AIPs are a big competitor to replace diesel submarines
|
| AIP is a supplementary system used by diesel submarines, not a
| replacement for them. They don't have sufficient power for
| anything but slow quiet cruising. AIP equipped subs will retain
| diesel generators for faster sprints, and greater endurance
| while transiting on the surface or via snorkel.
|
| The two basic technologies for AIP are fuel cells and sterling
| engines. Both are deployed successfully at the moment. The
| video above is a neat summary of a 2nd generation fuel cell
| system that uses an onboard reformer to generate H2 from
| diesel, avoiding the downsides of H2 storage.
| Wistar wrote:
| Also, the wikipedia write-up:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-independent_propulsion
| [deleted]
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| For marine mammals like cetaceans, sonar is equivalent to hearing
| an incredibly loud sound that makes your ears bleed.
| kryogen1c wrote:
| > While old diesel submarines needed to surface in a matter of
| hours or a few days at best to recharge batteries, new AIP
| powered vessels only need to surface every two to four weeks
| depending on type.
|
| > a Gotland class submarine is reduced to just 6 miles per hour
| if it wishes to remain submerged at maximum endurance
|
| two to four weeks submerged while idling? hardly seems like an
| improvement over diesel boats. also, what is the limiting factor?
| are they literally out of fuel, since they cant just snorkel to
| recharge batteries? or do they carry some kind of liquid oxygen
| maker? if they can make LOX, why dont we compare how long before
| diesel refueling is required?
|
| weird amount of detail in the article. too much to be clickbait,
| not enough to be an examination.
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