[HN Gopher] FB messenger silently censoring links, claims they w...
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       FB messenger silently censoring links, claims they were sent
        
       Author : votick
       Score  : 143 points
       Date   : 2021-08-28 21:36 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | throwawayswede wrote:
       | What's more frustrating than Facebook doing this is that there
       | are people who support this solely based on the the type of
       | content that gets shadow-banned, censored, or penalized.
       | 
       | Even Tweet OP is trying to justify their opposition to this
       | behavior by stating "im pro-science/vaccine/etc, but this not
       | cool fb".
       | 
       | To reiterate the same freaking point that gets spelled out on
       | every post:
       | 
       | IT'S NOT THE TYPE OF CONTENT THAT IS THE PROBLEM, IT'S THE
       | METHOD. IF YOU'RE OK WITH THIS AGAINST ALEX JONES, YOU CAN'T
       | COMPLAIN WHEN THEY START CENSORING ABORTION/LGBTQQIP2SAA HELP
       | LINES.
       | 
       | It's amazing to me that some people -especially
       | millennials/zoomers who are left-by-default (read: without
       | thinking, leftists to fit the group)- don't see selective
       | blocking by an authority (even the state) is no problem, as long
       | as it fits their views and it's only problematic when it's
       | against them. IMO these same people are _the_ prime target to
       | become archetype republican later on in life, after they get
       | disillusioned with their group and slowly start to spot
       | hypocrisy.
       | 
       | To be clear, both democrats and republicans are hypocrites.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | They've been doing this for years with porn, graphic shock sites,
       | and conspiracy sites. Not sure why this needs to be reiterated,
       | but if you even remotely value your freedom and privacy, never
       | use Facebook again for any reason.
        
         | blunte wrote:
         | It needs to be reiterated because many people missed examples
         | like this in the past. Every new user needs to be made aware of
         | what is really going on, and what Facebook thinks of them as.
        
       | mgraczyk wrote:
       | The censorship is intentional on the part of Facebook, but the
       | "silent" part is a frontend bug on messenger.com (possibly also
       | the app). Normally it shows you a red "error" indicator next to
       | the message that says something like "this goes against our
       | community guidelines.
       | 
       | The error can be seen in some of the screenshots. It briefly
       | shows "couldn't send" and if you refresh the page the messages
       | disappear forever.
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | GNews is where you can see the contents of the Hunter Biden
       | laptop so that's why it's banned. Had the contents of some Trump
       | family member's laptop been leaked to the media, Facebook would
       | have it trending. This technology is used to ensure that
       | preferred candidates have an advantage.
        
         | imwillofficial wrote:
         | Everyone familiar with the political field in the US knows your
         | comments is spot on. The down votes are sour grapes. The truth,
         | it hurts so good!
        
       | blunte wrote:
       | It's one thing to censor, but it's another to intentionally
       | deceive your users into believing that they sent something.
        
         | graeme wrote:
         | Hacker News does it. Reddit does it sitewide. Individual
         | moderators do it sitewide. Shadowbanning is an _essential_ tool
         | for moderation, for dealing with trolls, spammers, abusive
         | people.
         | 
         | You can argue the tool is being used too widely by Facebook,
         | but it is silly to pontificate against the practice as a whole.
         | 
         | You reaaaaallly would not like the uncensored internet.
        
           | omginternets wrote:
           | >You reaaaaallly would not like the uncensored internet.
           | 
           | Respectfully, speak for yourself.
        
         | edoceo wrote:
         | Malicious?
        
           | malwarebytess wrote:
           | Sort of. It's like shadowbanning/hellbanning. It solves a lot
           | of problems for moderators and prevents angry people from
           | escalating the situation into actually being banned.
           | 
           | I've used it before as a moderator. For the above reasons,
           | but mostly because I'm lazy and don't want to deal with angry
           | people. Still censorship though. I think that ideally
           | censorship ought to be communicated.
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | For another example of such totalitarian shenanigans consider
         | the practice of "shadowbanning" :
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning
         | 
         | Ostensibly used for spam/troll countermeasures. In practice
         | used to dick with whoever they choose for whatever reasons
         | please their black little hearts.
         | 
         | Reddit and Twitter are notorious for it. Other "social media"
         | organisms too.
         | 
         | AND ANOTHER, MORE IMMEDIATE EXAMPLE
         | 
         | Consider the way that downvotes progressively remove a post
         | from view.
         | 
         | It's a way of crowdsourcing the task of censorship.
         | 
         | Many hands make light work.
         | 
         | And the blame is neatly spread around.
         | 
         | And the actual shape of the censorship, the form being
         | conformed to, is only indirectly controlled by the admins. Thus
         | more blame neatly escaped.
         | 
         | It's goddamn elegant is what it is!
        
         | yellow_lead wrote:
         | When sending torrent links (Ubuntu / Arch iso even), FB blocks
         | it. Usually they show a red exclamation point on the message
         | for me so this is quite weird. Of course, this is one of the
         | reasons I don't use FB anymore.
        
       | ZoomerCretin wrote:
       | In case anyone is wondering what Pulitzer-prize winning piece she
       | is attempting to share, check out her link yourself:
       | https://gnews.org/1476750/, as well as a fact-check disproving
       | all of the dangerous and false claims inside:
       | https://www.techarp.com/science/greenlight-ivermectin-japan/
       | 
       | I, for one, am glad Facebook is censoring this baseless pseudo-
       | medical advice being given which has been responsible for a
       | massive increase in calls to poison control
       | (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/texas-s...)
       | 
       | Ivermectin causes "Nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain," the
       | director of the Texas Poison Center told TPR. "However, you can
       | have further problems, including mental status changes, coma,
       | even seizures... I haven't seen any deaths here in Texas, but
       | these are things that are reported by the manufacturer with
       | people who use large doses."
       | 
       | https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/08/americans-poiso...
        
         | rubatuga wrote:
         | Great Streisand effect in play. Check out http://ivmmeta.com
         | and decide for yourself.
        
         | ummonk wrote:
         | The whole Ivermectin thing is dumb and stupid. But are you
         | seriously saying silent censorship of links in Messenger is
         | okay?
        
           | shuntress wrote:
           | So, you definitely agree then that the Post Office should be
           | using public funds to run a messaging service (similar to
           | messenger, WhatsApp, iMessage, etc), right?
        
           | voidfunc wrote:
           | Sure, its a private communication service. Why isnt it okay?
           | You are using FB infrastructure to communicate, they
           | absolutely should get a say in what you are allowed to share.
        
         | cbozeman wrote:
         | Good thing you're not supposed to be a fucking moron and take
         | large doses, then, and actually get a prescription from a
         | doctor.
         | 
         | Ivermectin is now well-known as a prophylactic against COVID-19
         | and its variants if administered in appropriate dosages.
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | That messenger is subject to facebook's community guidelines is
       | nothing new, Zuckerberg said so himself publicly in an interview
       | a few years ago
       | 
       | https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-confirms-scans-mess...
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | >That messenger is subject to facebook's community guidelines
         | is nothing new
         | 
         | This thing that you just said. This statement that you just
         | made. The choice of phrasing. Is very weasel. Very corporate
         | newspeak.
         | 
         | It's got a kind of beauty.
         | 
         | Like when Ash, from Alien (1979), speaks admiringly : "I admire
         | its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or
         | delusions of morality."
        
         | theteapot wrote:
         | That messenger is subject to facebook's ~~community
         | guidelines~~ world view ...
        
         | polote wrote:
         | It's e2e but we can your messages before you send them.
         | Original
         | 
         | Edit : it appears that it is not e2e by default
        
         | cowpig wrote:
         | Your phrasing seems to imply that
         | 
         | - we should know that messenger being "subject to community
         | guidelines" means silent censorship
         | 
         | - Zuckerberg saying something publicly means it is justified
         | 
         | I would disagree with both of those implied assumptions
        
       | franciscop wrote:
       | Wait I thought this was known? I remember seeing this behavior
       | with a friend when I had FB, and I haven't had FB for 3-4 year
       | already.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | treelovinhippie wrote:
       | In Australia the government's (dubious) re-opening plan is based
       | upon modelling by the Doherty Institute.
       | 
       | Facebook censors anyone from sharing that report.
       | 
       | Here's the link to try yourself:
       | https://www.doherty.edu.au/uploads/content_doc/DohertyModell...
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | This is why it is best to avoid centralized platforms like FB,
       | Apple iMessage, Twitter DMs, etc.
        
       | TechBro8615 wrote:
       | This has been happening for years. Just try sending a message
       | containing the string `joebiden.info` and see what happens.
       | 
       | We're way past the rubicon. Get your information as best you can
       | and just hope you're somewhat aligned with the mainstream.
        
         | jwond wrote:
         | Reddit was also silently removing comments containing
         | joebiden.info
         | 
         | Not sure if they still are
        
         | ekam wrote:
         | Just tried it and it sends without an issue
        
           | toolz wrote:
           | I suspect they have flagged users that get filtered
           | differently. I've been in comment threads where people say
           | very similar things as myself with all the same keywords and
           | I'll get a message days later about a submission being hidden
           | due to some violations.
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | Depends on how you do it. If it's E2E then according to this
           | comment from March 2020 it goes through:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23110664
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | I tried it during the election and it didn't work. Have
           | uninstalled it since then so don't know if things have
           | changed.
        
           | swayvil wrote:
           | Well that was just an example. Of course they would not
           | actually censor `joebiden.info`. Not on your life! They would
           | censor other stuff, pertaining to other political leanings,
           | and other scientific-medical subjects... You know, the
           | badthink.
        
             | trophycase wrote:
             | What? 90% of the garbage circulated on facebook is
             | republican qanon conspiracy theories at worst, and tabloid
             | reactionary garbage at best.
        
               | swayvil wrote:
               | What flavor of think do you suppose they filter for?
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | sending a message with thedonald.win triggered the same
         | behavior at some point
        
         | exdsq wrote:
         | I just tried and it worked?
        
       | void_mint wrote:
       | Threads about censorship consistently remind me that HN is no
       | different than any other social media platform, subject to users
       | pushing various agendas and misinformation in support of those
       | agendas.
       | 
       | There's nothing wrong with private businesses removing content
       | they don't deem appropriate. There is also nothing wrong with
       | silencing users obviously lying. Thinking differently totally
       | misunderstands social media as a medium.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Don't worry, it's another _' accident'_ by the automated
       | moderation systems; brought to you by Facebook. /s
       | 
       | Do you really think that these companies are on your side or are
       | your friends?
        
         | kevmo wrote:
         | "Oh we are so sorry, please feel free to fine us $1 million.
         | This was a rogue programmer!"
        
       | porlune wrote:
       | I'm going to go on out on a limb and guess that this isn't really
       | a case of censorship, because it's not like Facebook to not tell
       | you directly that they've removed your content. Or they go the
       | other route and post a disclaiming "fact check" under it.. but so
       | far as silently removing posts, and marking them as "sent", seems
       | more likely to be a bug.
       | 
       | When I attempt to navigate to gnews.org the site is very slow,
       | and I wonder if Facebook is having trouble assigning some kind of
       | risk factor to it, then giving up, but ends up sending a
       | "success" response anyway, whereby the front end just assumes the
       | message was sent property and pushes it to your message cache
       | without attempting to fetch it over the network.
       | 
       | edit: since this has been down voted, could you explain why you
       | think I'm wrong?
        
       | Mikejames wrote:
       | looks like it's changed now, saying "couldn't send"
        
       | kevmo wrote:
       | Facebook has been suppressing links and profiles that don't make
       | them money for years.
        
         | sqqqqrly wrote:
         | Why does anyone use fb? I never have had an account. I do help
         | my mother-in-law with hers a bit.
         | 
         | My company asked me to create a Twitter account. I deleted it a
         | month later.
         | 
         | The soln to bad speech is better speech.
        
           | nvr219 wrote:
           | I use Facebook because the groups I'm involved with IRL
           | communicate on Facebook, or whatsapp (also owned by fb of
           | course).
        
       | cryptoz wrote:
       | Microsoft silently censored MSN chats 20 years ago. Couldn't talk
       | about PHP programming easily because any message with 'index.php'
       | was silently dropped. Blew my mind they would dare do that, but
       | I've since learned this is common practice at all major chat
       | apps.
       | 
       | If they don't like a message you are sending they are likely to
       | silently drop it and let you think it was delivered. Just no care
       | at all for the user experience at a base level.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-28 23:00 UTC)