[HN Gopher] Pocuter - A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE
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       Pocuter - A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE
        
       Author : dirkk0
       Score  : 108 points
       Date   : 2021-08-28 14:42 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kickstarter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kickstarter.com)
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | Seems similar to the M5Stack (https://m5stack.com/), which is a
       | good thing, if only to have more competition.
        
       | Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote:
       | Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+
       | memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in
       | package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller
       | with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | Almost certainly because of better tooling and probably better
         | peripheral support.
        
           | OisinMcGrath wrote:
           | Pretty much! :D
        
         | OisinMcGrath wrote:
         | Hi! I am actually directly involved with Pocuter. Amazing to
         | see it posted here! The ESP32 alone doesn't have enough pins to
         | handle all of the features of the Pocuter, so the SAMD21 was
         | selected as the main MCU to supplement this. We are looking in
         | to upgrading to the ESP32-C3 in the near future.
        
           | irq-1 wrote:
           | The security features on the ESP32-C3 are great!
           | 
           | > Secure Boot, Flash Encryption, Digital Signature and HMAC
           | Peripheral, Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) / DRM
           | 
           | That could open up new use cases. Strange its RSA only (no
           | ECC).
           | 
           | https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32_C3?0
        
           | Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote:
           | That's quite reasonable.
           | 
           | Agree that C3 would be a good 'upgrade' here. There's no need
           | for a fully featured ESP32 and C3 will save some cost.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | A lot of powerful computers were built by bunging in a powerful
         | CPU, perhaps with extra RAM, as a coprocessor to an already-
         | existing weak computer, whose weak CPU then serves as a sort of
         | front end processor, or FEP. An example is the Tandy Model 16,
         | which was the second line of desktop Unix workstations ever
         | released (and arguably the first affordable one, for multi-
         | kilobuck values of "affordable"). It was basically a Tandy
         | Model II Z80-based computer with a daughtercard carrying a
         | 68000 processor and up to 512 KiB of RAM. The 68000 actually
         | ran the Unix (Microsoft Xenix), and delegated I/O to the
         | various peripherals to the Z80.
        
         | ducktective wrote:
         | They support native USB and ESP32 doesn't have that.
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | Not nitpicky at all. Some ideas.
         | 
         | 1. I believe that there are some microcontrollers that have
         | irreversible settings, such as a setting to permanently disable
         | writing to flash memory.
         | 
         | Is the ESP32 such a processor?
         | 
         | If so, maybe they want to have WiFi on a coprocessor that they
         | can write protect so that they can get certification to sell
         | their modules in jurisdictions that require that WiFi has
         | protections against people reconfiguring it to use channels
         | that are not part of the WiFi bands in those jurisdictions.
         | 
         | 2. Their software, Pocuter OS 1.0, the SDK, and the 3D and
         | physics libraries seem to be a big part of their pitch.
         | 
         | Maybe they already had these, or a large part of them, for ARM
         | before they decided on how they would do WiFi and BLE. Later
         | they picked ESP for WiFi and BLE and _could_ run everything on
         | that, but porting their OS and low level libraries from ARM to
         | Xtensa or RISC-V (depening on which ESP32 they are using) might
         | be a lot of work.
         | 
         | 3. Power savings? If WiFi and BLE aren't being used they can
         | completely shut down the ESP32.
         | 
         | This is probably not it though, because I believe that ESP32
         | provides very fine grained control over power. They could run
         | everything else on the ESP32 and still completely shut down
         | WiFi and BLE when not in use.
         | 
         | 4. I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that they
         | are doing it for the next reason I'm going to name. I'm just
         | including it because I'm sure at some point someone on
         | Kickstarter or Indiegogo is going to try it.
         | 
         | Use a coprocessor for WiFI and BLE that is ridiculous overkill
         | if that is all at does, and use all that extra power to run
         | something of interest to you such as mining crytocurrency.
         | 
         | Edit: oh well, none of these guesses turned out right.
        
           | Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote:
           | Also 1. Development boards like this do not require
           | certification afaik. Reason being that there are far too many
           | variables in its operation (it is designed to be
           | reprogrammed; users may do anything from completely disabling
           | RF to abusing it in some extremely non-compliant way) and
           | implementation (enclosure can be significant; not so relevant
           | here but in many cases the antenna itself must be installed
           | or can be altered by the end user) for certification to be of
           | any use.
        
           | ducktective wrote:
           | 1- AFAIK, Espressif uses closed binary blob for WiFi so the
           | channels could not be tampered with. Still, they need FCC
           | regulation for their whole product in some jurisdictions.
           | 
           | 4- I don't think any kind of crypto could be reasonably mined
           | on these MCUs.
        
             | ksaj wrote:
             | Wouldn't changing the locale settings defeat 1-?
        
               | ducktective wrote:
               | locale? If you mean some config, I think the binary blob
               | should handle WiFi protocol to the spec (BTW, It's a
               | freeRTOS application IIRC)
        
           | coupdejarnac wrote:
           | The topic of mining crypto on microcontrollers something I
           | see so often, and it drives me crazy. Mining crypto takes a
           | ton of energy, so why would you do that on a battery powered
           | device? ffs
        
       | bufferoverflow wrote:
       | 32KB SRAM with up to 512GB of microSD storage.
       | 
       | That's just wild.
        
       | spicybright wrote:
       | Does this actually exist? I'm weary of kickstarters.
        
         | OisinMcGrath wrote:
         | It sure does! I am directly involved with Pocuter. We are
         | already organizing production for backer fulfillment. We'd like
         | to upgrade to the ESP32-C3 since it isn't as affected by the
         | chip shortage as the SAMD21 and ESP32 are (and offers more
         | favorable performance/security)
        
           | spicybright wrote:
           | That is fantastic to hear, tech hardware might be one of the
           | hardest things to create. Congrats!
        
             | whoaisme wrote:
             | You're weary of kickstarters but all it takes is for a guy
             | to tell you typical kickstarter stuff for you to say
             | fantastic! LOL
        
       | GekkePrutser wrote:
       | Interesting, but the price is a bit too high for what it is IMO.
       | You can get a pinewatch or M5stick for much less. For me the
       | appeal of such boards is that they cost negligible money so you
       | can use them everywhere.
       | 
       | I know they're not the same this and have some different specs,
       | but they are in the same class. This is not something I'd buy as
       | easily.
       | 
       | However I hope it does well, after all scaling up will bring
       | prices down.
        
       | somesortofsystm wrote:
       | I've already got something just like this, only its better: the
       | m5StickC:
       | 
       | https://shop.m5stack.com/products/stick-c
       | 
       | It is truly dee-lightful to sit and play with this environment,
       | made even more awesome by the depth of the PlatformIO library
       | system.
       | 
       | See also, PineWatch, similar ..
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | "Micro computer". There's a phrase I haven't heard in a while.
       | Back in the day it referred to computers the size of my desktop.
        
       | throwaway316943 wrote:
       | Could something like this be leveraged for a physical
       | representation of crypto currency? So that you could spend it
       | like cash.
        
         | Qworg wrote:
         | Sure, but it would more likely be a reader for the keys you
         | hand to someone on the SD card.
         | 
         | Unlikely though - the physical representation of crypto has
         | been tried several times, but trust and key ownership is hard.
        
       | ducktective wrote:
       | Impressive! Congrats! How did you manage to integrate ESP32's
       | WiFi antenna into that space? Specially in this image [1], it
       | seems the pins of the esp32 is very close to the SD
       | card...Wouldn't it cause interference?
       | 
       | [1]: https://ksr-
       | ugc.imgix.net/assets/034/323/339/1a68f2cee050491...
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | I'm not 100% sure it answers your question about the antenna,
         | but FTA: _"Some people are asking themselves where the antenna
         | is. We are using a chip antenna - It is the blue component in
         | the corner!"_
        
         | OisinMcGrath wrote:
         | The small blue chip on the bottom left corner of the side of
         | the board with the SD card is the antenna. We isolated it with
         | ground plane stitching and placed it as far from the SD card as
         | we could in order to avoid interference, and we haven't seen
         | any thus far!
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | This looks super awesome. I got excited until I saw it was a
       | Kickstarter and not delivering until December. I guess I'll wait
       | until they actually start shipping in case there's something
       | better by then ...
       | 
       | If they could ship one in a week I'd totally buy one now.
        
         | OisinMcGrath wrote:
         | Thanks! I also wish we could ship immediately. We figured we'd
         | better set a conservative delivery date in case regulatory
         | approvals and the chip shortage caused havoc but we're looking
         | to fulfill all of the deliveries as early as possible so we can
         | move on to branching out with derivatives.
        
       | peterburkimsher wrote:
       | I like it! The name is especially cute.
       | 
       | I carry a PQI Air Card in my pocket to use as an SD->WiFi->iPhone
       | adaptor, and this could complement it nicely. I've also carried a
       | CoreWind WiFiG25 for USB host, so I could mount other people's
       | phones using MTP or libimobiledevice. The CoreWind stopped
       | working, so I've been trying to replace it with a VoCore, but I
       | haven't got that to work yet either. Does the Pocuter have USB
       | host ports?
       | 
       | Having battery power management circuitry is really wonderful -
       | I'm usually having to use a Third Rail battery and microUSB M -
       | USB F mini adaptor and microUSB M - USB M rotating adaptor to
       | power the pocket computer, and then I can't use the same wire for
       | plugging in other devices. Screen support is also very impressive
       | - and with an ESP32 on board then it should be able to bit-bang
       | VGA out too!
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-28 23:01 UTC)