[HN Gopher] Pocuter - A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE
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Pocuter - A coin-sized micro computer with WiFi and BLE
Author : dirkk0
Score : 108 points
Date : 2021-08-28 14:42 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kickstarter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kickstarter.com)
| squarefoot wrote:
| Seems similar to the M5Stack (https://m5stack.com/), which is a
| good thing, if only to have more competition.
| Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote:
| Maybe nitpicky but why is the ESP32 (dual core @ 240MHz, 300kb+
| memory, options with megabytes of flash and memory integrated in
| package) relegated to coprocessor for a 48MHz microcontroller
| with 256kb flash and 32kb memory?
| ComputerGuru wrote:
| Almost certainly because of better tooling and probably better
| peripheral support.
| OisinMcGrath wrote:
| Pretty much! :D
| OisinMcGrath wrote:
| Hi! I am actually directly involved with Pocuter. Amazing to
| see it posted here! The ESP32 alone doesn't have enough pins to
| handle all of the features of the Pocuter, so the SAMD21 was
| selected as the main MCU to supplement this. We are looking in
| to upgrading to the ESP32-C3 in the near future.
| irq-1 wrote:
| The security features on the ESP32-C3 are great!
|
| > Secure Boot, Flash Encryption, Digital Signature and HMAC
| Peripheral, Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) / DRM
|
| That could open up new use cases. Strange its RSA only (no
| ECC).
|
| https://www.espressif.com/en/news/ESP32_C3?0
| Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote:
| That's quite reasonable.
|
| Agree that C3 would be a good 'upgrade' here. There's no need
| for a fully featured ESP32 and C3 will save some cost.
| bitwize wrote:
| A lot of powerful computers were built by bunging in a powerful
| CPU, perhaps with extra RAM, as a coprocessor to an already-
| existing weak computer, whose weak CPU then serves as a sort of
| front end processor, or FEP. An example is the Tandy Model 16,
| which was the second line of desktop Unix workstations ever
| released (and arguably the first affordable one, for multi-
| kilobuck values of "affordable"). It was basically a Tandy
| Model II Z80-based computer with a daughtercard carrying a
| 68000 processor and up to 512 KiB of RAM. The 68000 actually
| ran the Unix (Microsoft Xenix), and delegated I/O to the
| various peripherals to the Z80.
| ducktective wrote:
| They support native USB and ESP32 doesn't have that.
| tzs wrote:
| Not nitpicky at all. Some ideas.
|
| 1. I believe that there are some microcontrollers that have
| irreversible settings, such as a setting to permanently disable
| writing to flash memory.
|
| Is the ESP32 such a processor?
|
| If so, maybe they want to have WiFi on a coprocessor that they
| can write protect so that they can get certification to sell
| their modules in jurisdictions that require that WiFi has
| protections against people reconfiguring it to use channels
| that are not part of the WiFi bands in those jurisdictions.
|
| 2. Their software, Pocuter OS 1.0, the SDK, and the 3D and
| physics libraries seem to be a big part of their pitch.
|
| Maybe they already had these, or a large part of them, for ARM
| before they decided on how they would do WiFi and BLE. Later
| they picked ESP for WiFi and BLE and _could_ run everything on
| that, but porting their OS and low level libraries from ARM to
| Xtensa or RISC-V (depening on which ESP32 they are using) might
| be a lot of work.
|
| 3. Power savings? If WiFi and BLE aren't being used they can
| completely shut down the ESP32.
|
| This is probably not it though, because I believe that ESP32
| provides very fine grained control over power. They could run
| everything else on the ESP32 and still completely shut down
| WiFi and BLE when not in use.
|
| 4. I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that they
| are doing it for the next reason I'm going to name. I'm just
| including it because I'm sure at some point someone on
| Kickstarter or Indiegogo is going to try it.
|
| Use a coprocessor for WiFI and BLE that is ridiculous overkill
| if that is all at does, and use all that extra power to run
| something of interest to you such as mining crytocurrency.
|
| Edit: oh well, none of these guesses turned out right.
| Huwyt_Nashi_064 wrote:
| Also 1. Development boards like this do not require
| certification afaik. Reason being that there are far too many
| variables in its operation (it is designed to be
| reprogrammed; users may do anything from completely disabling
| RF to abusing it in some extremely non-compliant way) and
| implementation (enclosure can be significant; not so relevant
| here but in many cases the antenna itself must be installed
| or can be altered by the end user) for certification to be of
| any use.
| ducktective wrote:
| 1- AFAIK, Espressif uses closed binary blob for WiFi so the
| channels could not be tampered with. Still, they need FCC
| regulation for their whole product in some jurisdictions.
|
| 4- I don't think any kind of crypto could be reasonably mined
| on these MCUs.
| ksaj wrote:
| Wouldn't changing the locale settings defeat 1-?
| ducktective wrote:
| locale? If you mean some config, I think the binary blob
| should handle WiFi protocol to the spec (BTW, It's a
| freeRTOS application IIRC)
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| The topic of mining crypto on microcontrollers something I
| see so often, and it drives me crazy. Mining crypto takes a
| ton of energy, so why would you do that on a battery powered
| device? ffs
| bufferoverflow wrote:
| 32KB SRAM with up to 512GB of microSD storage.
|
| That's just wild.
| spicybright wrote:
| Does this actually exist? I'm weary of kickstarters.
| OisinMcGrath wrote:
| It sure does! I am directly involved with Pocuter. We are
| already organizing production for backer fulfillment. We'd like
| to upgrade to the ESP32-C3 since it isn't as affected by the
| chip shortage as the SAMD21 and ESP32 are (and offers more
| favorable performance/security)
| spicybright wrote:
| That is fantastic to hear, tech hardware might be one of the
| hardest things to create. Congrats!
| whoaisme wrote:
| You're weary of kickstarters but all it takes is for a guy
| to tell you typical kickstarter stuff for you to say
| fantastic! LOL
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Interesting, but the price is a bit too high for what it is IMO.
| You can get a pinewatch or M5stick for much less. For me the
| appeal of such boards is that they cost negligible money so you
| can use them everywhere.
|
| I know they're not the same this and have some different specs,
| but they are in the same class. This is not something I'd buy as
| easily.
|
| However I hope it does well, after all scaling up will bring
| prices down.
| somesortofsystm wrote:
| I've already got something just like this, only its better: the
| m5StickC:
|
| https://shop.m5stack.com/products/stick-c
|
| It is truly dee-lightful to sit and play with this environment,
| made even more awesome by the depth of the PlatformIO library
| system.
|
| See also, PineWatch, similar ..
| bitwize wrote:
| "Micro computer". There's a phrase I haven't heard in a while.
| Back in the day it referred to computers the size of my desktop.
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| Could something like this be leveraged for a physical
| representation of crypto currency? So that you could spend it
| like cash.
| Qworg wrote:
| Sure, but it would more likely be a reader for the keys you
| hand to someone on the SD card.
|
| Unlikely though - the physical representation of crypto has
| been tried several times, but trust and key ownership is hard.
| ducktective wrote:
| Impressive! Congrats! How did you manage to integrate ESP32's
| WiFi antenna into that space? Specially in this image [1], it
| seems the pins of the esp32 is very close to the SD
| card...Wouldn't it cause interference?
|
| [1]: https://ksr-
| ugc.imgix.net/assets/034/323/339/1a68f2cee050491...
| Someone wrote:
| I'm not 100% sure it answers your question about the antenna,
| but FTA: _"Some people are asking themselves where the antenna
| is. We are using a chip antenna - It is the blue component in
| the corner!"_
| OisinMcGrath wrote:
| The small blue chip on the bottom left corner of the side of
| the board with the SD card is the antenna. We isolated it with
| ground plane stitching and placed it as far from the SD card as
| we could in order to avoid interference, and we haven't seen
| any thus far!
| dheera wrote:
| This looks super awesome. I got excited until I saw it was a
| Kickstarter and not delivering until December. I guess I'll wait
| until they actually start shipping in case there's something
| better by then ...
|
| If they could ship one in a week I'd totally buy one now.
| OisinMcGrath wrote:
| Thanks! I also wish we could ship immediately. We figured we'd
| better set a conservative delivery date in case regulatory
| approvals and the chip shortage caused havoc but we're looking
| to fulfill all of the deliveries as early as possible so we can
| move on to branching out with derivatives.
| peterburkimsher wrote:
| I like it! The name is especially cute.
|
| I carry a PQI Air Card in my pocket to use as an SD->WiFi->iPhone
| adaptor, and this could complement it nicely. I've also carried a
| CoreWind WiFiG25 for USB host, so I could mount other people's
| phones using MTP or libimobiledevice. The CoreWind stopped
| working, so I've been trying to replace it with a VoCore, but I
| haven't got that to work yet either. Does the Pocuter have USB
| host ports?
|
| Having battery power management circuitry is really wonderful -
| I'm usually having to use a Third Rail battery and microUSB M -
| USB F mini adaptor and microUSB M - USB M rotating adaptor to
| power the pocket computer, and then I can't use the same wire for
| plugging in other devices. Screen support is also very impressive
| - and with an ESP32 on board then it should be able to bit-bang
| VGA out too!
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(page generated 2021-08-28 23:01 UTC)