[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Where can I live off 1k USD per month?
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Ask HN: Where can I live off 1k USD per month?
I'm planing on taking some serious time off to work on my side
projects. I'm open to any country in the world, I want to just
work on my games. So with that in mind I'll need good internet
access. From what I can see, this is very doable in Eastern Europe.
Eventually, I do plan on returning to the US, but I want to spend
at least 6 months overseas.
Author : 41209
Score : 192 points
Date : 2021-08-26 01:35 UTC (21 hours ago)
| kaycebasques wrote:
| One thing I'll mention for US citizens. Aetna's Mobile Healthcare
| Plan seems fairly reasonable. I'm paying around $300 a month
| total for coverage for my partner and me (most comprehensive
| coverage, highest deductible). Apparently it's still valid in the
| US so long as you spend the simple majority of your time outside
| of the US (i.e. 6 months abroad).
|
| https://www.aetnainternational.com/en/individuals/health-pla...
| echelon wrote:
| Is there something like this for domestic health insurance (ie.
| no time abroad)?
|
| Is there any risk they would drop you if you or your partner
| had a major illness or injury?
| js2 wrote:
| An ACA plan + Federal tax credit if you're between 100% and
| 400% of Federal poverty level.
|
| https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-
| fami...
|
| https://www.healthcare.gov/lower-costs/
| jt2190 wrote:
| In the U.S. it's not enough to have health insurance: You also
| need to make sure that the healthcare providers you care about
| accept it.
|
| Furthermore, there's a wrinkle to watch out for where
| "renewing" a policy is actually "buying a new policy". A new
| diagnosis under the current policy then becomes a disqualifying
| "pre-existing condition" when trying to get the new policy.
| mysecretaccount wrote:
| Wow, that is extremely reasonable. I'm looking to FIRE in the
| next year and live >6 months abroad, and as a single person,
| any amount of coverage for <$300/month is a godsend and will
| not eat into my retirement significantly.
| gamechangr wrote:
| https://www.moneycrashers.com/inexpensive-countries-2k-month...
|
| I posted this for living on $2k or less
| finnjohnsen2 wrote:
| Forget Scandinavia
| Ekaros wrote:
| Not good living, but possible. I don't think it's impossible to
| find smaller studio for about 500EUR in smaller towns. Ofc,
| living on 500EUR is tough, but not impossible.
| wsc981 wrote:
| With my girlfriend and daughter I live in Thailand (Thai
| countryside) and we have a budget of about 50.000 THB per month,
| or about 1.300 USD. We own our house, so we don't pay rent and we
| don't have any loans. This budget doesn't include costs for
| health insurance, which I pay separately.
|
| I think a single guy could live on quite a bit less, but has to
| pay some rent. For about 250-300 USD per month you can get a
| decent enough place to live I'd wager (think: condo studio, 35
| m2, gym, swimming pool). If you eat Thai food some of the time,
| food can be quite cheap (a meal without drinks could be had for
| about 1-2 USD in a typical Thai food stall or at a food court).
| If you buy foreign food things can get more expensive. Depending
| on where you live, coffee can also be had for 1-2 USD. Renting a
| scooter would be advisable for getting around a city, but would
| cost an additional 100 USD per month.
| rwmj wrote:
| Thai food is so good I don't know who wouldn't want to eat it
| all the time.
| busterarm wrote:
| I have a lemongrass allergy but I get by.
| liveoneggs wrote:
| You can do this in Savannah, GA which is an excellent city for
| being a single artist.
| ww520 wrote:
| Barbados in Caribbean is really nice. It has some partnerships
| with Canada and is nomad friendly.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| https://www.goatsontheroad.com/15-countries-live-on-1000-per...
| lormayna wrote:
| Albania. It's still a developing country, but the climate is
| perfect, places are stunning and you can live with a lot less
| than 1k/month.
| ApolloRising wrote:
| Easiest is probably Mexico or in small town usa in texas.
| xtracto wrote:
| It depends a lot on the type of "experience" OP is looking for,
| but Mexico would be very good if he is looking to still be
| close to US culture.
|
| My suggestion will be somewhere like Ensenada, La Paz (Baja)
| for the West side. Tlaxcala, Hidalgo, Guanajuato for the center
| or Merida or Campeche for the east.
| rdevsrex wrote:
| I live in South Africa now, with my wife and daughter, and while
| I could live in less than 1000 usd, it would be in dodgier areas
| of town. That said for a nice 3 bedroom pay ~700 usd, and food is
| like 250 per person. So from the sound of things, there are much
| better options out there.
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| Serious Question: are there parts of South Africa that aren't
| dodgy?
|
| After the recent riots in Kwazulu-Natal, it seems kind of wild.
| sgt wrote:
| Yes there are. Tons. I live in South Africa and feel
| completely safe. And I don't live in a security estate
| either. It's not as crazy as what you see on the news. It is
| however all about location.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| alabama or mississippi. it's not all bad if you know where to go.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| New Orleans too
| brunojppb wrote:
| If you like living off around the beach with a stable weather
| year around (summer from January to December) and amazing food,
| have a look at this small town called "Joao Pessoa" in Brazil. 1k
| USD there you can leave quite comfortably, including rent and all
| living costs (way above the average there)
|
| I come from there and while I am living in the EU at the moment,
| I plan in retiring early and move back soon.
| tmprry wrote:
| - Eastern Europe - Balkans (South-East Europe) - Portugal
|
| All cheap, decent healthcare and if you play your card rights you
| can avoid downsides (like heavy pollution mentioned).
|
| As a rule of thumb, check all the countries with an average
| monthly salary below 1k $.
|
| Bonus points if the average monthly salary in the capital city is
| below 1k $.
|
| Then sort out all the countries with heavy downsides (check HDI).
| ChemSpider wrote:
| _Rural_ Taiwan. Very good and affordable health care. Super fast
| and cheap mobile Internet.
| contingencies wrote:
| Having cycled much of it I would recommend the east coast
| around Taidong. Best pineapples ever.
| cloudedcordial wrote:
| Very good food, too. The downside of Taiwan is to learn the
| local language.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| Which, unless I am terribly wrong, involves ideographic
| characters and not alphabetic. This should be a major
| obstacle.
| robjan wrote:
| The written language is Traditional Chinese.
| mikeho1999 wrote:
| Actually, I would say anywhere in Taiwan other than Taipei,
| you'd be fine on $1k USD / month... so for those that would
| still prefer urban/city life, you should definitely consider
| Kaohsiung or Tainan -- both urban centers that are in the
| southern part of Taiwan.
|
| Weather may be a bit more of an issue though (especially in the
| summertime), but cost of living is still very very reasonable.
|
| Agreed on the language though -- Taiwan in general is a bit
| tougher to navigate for non-Chinese speakers. You may be able
| to get by with just English in Taipei, but in the rural areas
| or in the central/southern urban centers, it'll be a bit
| tougher.
| acjacobson wrote:
| As others have said you could do this in many places - including
| countries that are generally more expensive like Germany
| (350-450EUR for a small flat in Leipzig). In practice the main
| challenge might be finding a short-term rental for as low as
| people staying a year or more, so factor that in to your search.
| mysecretaccount wrote:
| (Created a throwaway because I don't want my employer to somehow
| notice that I'm retiring in ~a year)
|
| This thread is highly reassuring to me. I spent six months
| traveling around SEA in 2014 on ~$1k/month. It was pretty easy to
| stick to that budget even with the cost of moving around. Seven
| years later, I had mostly assumed that a $1k/month existence was
| hard to come by unless you are willing to live in relative
| poverty - apparently that is not the case.
|
| Hopefully inflation and the post-pandemic travel boom do not
| change this much.
| cpach wrote:
| There are probably lots of places. Maybe Cambodia, Guatemala,
| Romania, Portugal...? And lots of others. Best of luck with your
| games!
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Assuming you're American, be aware that you might still need to
| pay some taxes to the US despite living abroad (as long as you're
| a citizen). Many countries have set up their tax law to make sure
| you don't get taxed twice because of the USA's weird tax laws,
| but it's worth taking into account!
| gamechangr wrote:
| I posted This for $2k a month with some comments
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27468779
| thegypsyking wrote:
| Check out nomad capitalist youtube. I know the guy, he is
| incredibly nice and knowledgeable on this topic. Myself, I would
| recommend Mexico and Bali but I'm Eastern European so really
| bored of the area. Georgia (the country) would be much better
| than Poland and other suggestions here though.
| hn-is-life wrote:
| In order of increasing cost of living:
|
| Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania.
|
| Why these countries:
|
| * cheap (this is why Greece is not there)
|
| * Christian i.e. culturally closer to America than say Turkey or
| Albania or Bosnia)
|
| * 0-wokeness (if you are LGBTQ you will probably find it a bit
| more difficult, but Tinder/Grindr works so you can definitely
| find people for sex)
|
| * good internet for near 0 cost
|
| Probably best to pick the capital of each of them, or a large
| coastal (or mountain) town.
| diegorbaquero wrote:
| Colombia, even on Bogota and Cartagena is super doable.
| i-848181-neev wrote:
| Came here to add Colombia to the list though I would suggest
| Medellin.
|
| Stayed there for six months. Inexpensive, friendly people,
| generally safe if you stay near the Poblado area and not flaunt
| your wealth.
|
| Use apps for just about everything and if you're inclined, cook
| at home.
|
| Here's a cost breakdown:
|
| Rent: staying at a 4.5/5 star hotel near Poblado runs you
| $400-500 USD, check with some of the newer hotels and avoid
| Booking.com (at least after your two week stay). Hotels will
| work with you If you try to negotiate long term pricing, some
| even have bigger and dedicated rooms.
|
| Check out properties with Caracol and AirBnB. The idea is if
| you negotiate pricing outside the platform, it's often cheaper
| for longer term stays.
|
| Food: use Rappi to order your meals, it's similar to Uber Eats
| (since discontinued in the country); half the cost of what
| you'll usually pay in the US.
|
| Transportation: Uber, DiDi, Cabify.
|
| Loved the country and looking to return next year. Haven't been
| able to obtain a visa yet.
| spdebbarma wrote:
| You can use Nomad List[0] to get an idea of possible options.
| Eastern Europe, South America, South East Asia are all viable
| options with vibrant communities with people like you.
|
| [0]https://nomadlist.com/
| jonshariat wrote:
| +1 for nomadlist, a great community has already done all the
| hard work on this subject.
| tejohnso wrote:
| Wouldn't this be very doable in the US, with a lot less hassle?
|
| Have you looked at rent prices in some of the smaller cities in
| Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Utah?
| freediver wrote:
| Serbia offers a 180 degrees different culture than most of what
| you experienced in US plus is very dynamic, cheap and great for
| young people.
|
| Couple of a links to get you started:
|
| https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/serbia-best-places-to...
|
| https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20170822-belgrades-floati...
|
| https://theculturetrip.com/europe/serbia/articles/an-expats-...
|
| https://www.quora.com/What-is-life-like-for-American-expats-...
|
| https://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-foreigners-moving-to-B...
|
| https://yankee-in-belgrade.blogspot.com
| gaoshan wrote:
| Have you actually lived in the US so that you personally know
| of this 180 degrees of difference? If so, which parts of the
| US? I ask because the differences between New York City,
| Tallahassee, Chicago, Columbus, Nashville, Kansas City, Austin,
| Taos, San Francisco, Boise, Hattiesburg, Denver, Portland, Bar
| Harbor, etc. are so wildly stark as to be like different
| countries on many levels (and I say this as someone who has
| lived in a number of countries from the US to Europe to Asia,
| and in a number of States as well)
| wil421 wrote:
| 180 degrees from what culture? I've been to Belgrade a few
| times for work and worked with lots of Serbians for a number of
| years. They are more like the conservatives in the US.
|
| People move to Belgrade because it's cheap and the food is
| awesome. I've partied at the Splavs and had a great time.
| Random people were much more friendlier than Germans (the Serbs
| told me they were robots). There are some resentments by the
| Serbs against Americans and NATO bombings. It did come up while
| I was there.
| freediver wrote:
| I meant culture of living. Things like cities with lots of
| parks and pedestrian zones, more walking/less dependency on
| cars, hidden coffee shops between old buildings, ability to
| live decently on a very small budget, free education and
| healthcare, generally easier to make friends, specially if
| you are a foreigner - things like that.
|
| I would not necessarily compare Serbians to conservatives in
| US (we are both generalizing now). What you may have
| experienced in general is 'caution' because that region of
| the world experienced wars every 30 years on average for the
| last 1000 years (unlike US). So it's not like its resisting
| change, but the progress was hindered so many times, having
| to rebuild everything from scratch. And it is hard to be
| 'liberal' in an environment where in some places you do not
| have basic infrastructure. Political 'progressive' thinking
| usually comes after you solved basic needs. That's just my
| assessment.
| wil421 wrote:
| The reason I made the comparison to conservatives is
| because my coworker over there did an exchange program in
| High School and he thought the South had similar viewpoints
| to Serbians. I do agree with him about both being
| conservatives.
| freediver wrote:
| Yes I would agree that political views are in general
| more conservative but for historical reasons I described,
| not because it is someone's choice (plus strong influence
| of church 'helps').
| salex89 wrote:
| I'm sorry, but as a Serb from Serbia, I cannot agree with
| the first part of your answer. Belgrade is not a pedestrian
| friendly city by no means, and you are dependent on cars
| more then in an average European city. I've spent some time
| in multiple, smaller and bigger, and those are not features
| I would associate with Belgrade.
| freediver wrote:
| I was comparing it to USA.
| input_sh wrote:
| Compared to the US it definitely is. Especially if you
| stay away from New Belgrade, I've always underestimated
| how much is there to walk between like two or three blocs
| there.
|
| Other than that it's just an incredibly interesting city
| to walk through, even if you're inconvenienced as a
| pedestrian multiple times on that trip. You never know
| what you'll find behind the corner: a building that looks
| like it's falling apart, a gaze-inspiring brutalist
| building from Yugoslav times, or a modern-looking office.
| The only thing you know for sure is that you won't have
| to walk long before finding a cafe.
| dbancajas wrote:
| So if you're non caucasian it's a big NO?
| wil421 wrote:
| Lol. All I can say is that if you're Muslim or of African
| decent it's not gonna be the same as a Caucasian. Many do
| not believe in political correctness. Not that Europe
| abides by that like the US does but also not something
| you'd see in the UK, France, or Germany. Even Indian
| coworkers had "issues" there.
|
| I have childhood friends who came to the US during the
| Yugoslav wars in the 90s. When I mentioned them my
| coworkers they would quickly point out the last name was
| Muslim and not Serbian. Also they would point out the one
| or two Albanians that worked with us.
| freediver wrote:
| I would disagree. What is important to know is that in
| this region of the world discrimination (if at all
| present) is in general not based on the race/color of the
| skin - and this is in general true for the rest of Europe
| too.
|
| In Europe, discrimination, when it happens, is usually
| based on national or religious differences. All wars
| Europeans ever fought were over national or religious
| reasons.
|
| In Serbia generally racial discrimination is not present,
| nor is a topic of any conversation in media or society
| (certainly not to any extent like in US). There was a war
| between serbs and bosnian muslims and serbs and kosovo
| muslims (note national/religious connotation) some 20
| years ago, and some people may have 'hard feelings' about
| it, but in general that's the end of it. Still, being a
| Muslim in Serbia is IMO a 'better' experience than being
| one in USA (maybe also because 5% of population of Serbia
| is Muslim vs ~1% in USA).
| 7steps2much wrote:
| Fellow European here, I have to somewhat disagree. While
| it is true that discrimination is not as heavily based on
| skin colour as it is in places like the US I believe it
| plays a bigger role than you make it out to be.
|
| Discrimination based on nationality is a thing, but it is
| very much something that varies a lot in Europe. To
| generalise it as one of the top reasons for
| discrimination isn't quite right in my opinion.
|
| That said, it's the type of discrimination that is the
| most prevalent, simply because that's what most people
| deal with.
|
| However, I think that in day to day life skin colour may
| be more noticeable than other types of discrimination,
| simply because it is easier to make out.
|
| While in some places discrimination of certain
| nationalities or religions is certainly common place and
| as such might seem like it is the predominant form of
| discrimination, discrimination based on skin colour is
| also present. Maybe to a lesser degree, but it is present
| everywhere.
|
| The simple truth is that the "better" experience will be
| the one Caucasians get.
| freediver wrote:
| This is why I used 'in general' so many times in my
| comment :)
|
| Perhaps we can agree that in Europe, national/religious
| discrimination is probably an order of magnitude more
| prevalent than any other form of discrimination. From my
| experience and in practical terms, I would even put
| social/economic/education based discrimination before
| skin color based one.
| donnythecroc wrote:
| The USA might not treat Muslims well, but there have not
| been mass killings (in country - obviously there have
| been abroad). Anyone who wants to know more should google
| Srebrenica genocide, was the July 1995 genocide of more
| than 8,000 Bosniak Muslim men and boys in and around the
| town of Srebrenica, during the Bosnian War.
|
| Those individuals who during the 1990s were the most
| ardent supporters of the ultranationalist politics that
| paved the way for the genocide in Srebrenica--for the
| ethnic 'cleansing' of Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina
| as well as Kosovo--are in charge today, too. Since the
| time of the socialist state's end, there have hardly been
| any powerful political actors in Serbia who did not in
| some way advocate some idea of a 'Greater Serbia'.
|
| There is a clear continuity of nationalist politics that
| has more or less been going on since the nineteenth
| century, and the dominant line of political thinking in
| Serbia throughout history has mostly been nationalism.
| The essentialization of Muslims as the ultimate 'Other'
| has been one of this nationalism's main pillars. On the
| one hand, Serb converts to Islam are in some way worse
| than 'born' Muslims for most Serbian nationalists. There
| is the popular saying 'a poturica [convert] is worse than
| a Turk', and the derogatory term poturica applies to all
| South Slavs who have accepted Islam--including Bosniaks
| and Serbian converts.
| alexitosrv wrote:
| I suggest Colombia, you can find greatest rentals for less than
| 300 USD, and cheap cost of life and amazing food as well.
| Thinking in cities like Bucaramanga, Santa Marta, etc.
| rootsudo wrote:
| How is Santa Marta? Debating on that, visited Cartagena and was
| not impressed, Also $300/week seems to be the norm for an eh
| place.
|
| Cheaper than USA for sure, but also not a fan of the food in
| Colombia either. Or most of South America when compared to
| Asia. :D
| whymauri wrote:
| ++ for Colombia. Healthcare is good for non-citizens, too.
| Depending on the city, it is high quality, IMO.
| seeekr wrote:
| How's the crime and safety situation in Colombia recently? Many
| years back a good friend of mine lived there for a significant
| amount of time and it seemed quite unsafe.
| nicoburns wrote:
| A lot, lot better than it used be. I went there in 2017 (or
| maybe it was 2018) and there were lots of places that
| Colombians from other parts of the country (or even other
| parts of the same city) were scared of, but we perfectly safe
| when you went there yourself. There are places you shouldn't
| go, but the safe places are pretty safe.
| FabHK wrote:
| Medellin is reasonably safe if you stay out of certain areas,
| and has "eternal spring" (close to equator, but high
| elevation). The homicide rate of Colombia is 5x USA, which in
| turn is 5x Germany, which in turn is 5x Singapore.
| alexitosrv wrote:
| I would say it's fairly reasonable. It's not like a war
| territory or anything like that. You find big areas that are
| pretty normal in terms of what to expect, only small crime,
| and to feel safe it's a matter of being self aware and reduce
| the attack surface. As it's in many other countries around
| the world, is more a question of being privy of where the
| shady neighborhoods or what are the avoidable zones around
| town. I am colombian and I live in Bogota, so I can answer
| more questions if you want.
|
| I love the Colombian caribbean coast, so that is why is my
| first recommendation to the OP, the weather is perfect almost
| all year round, and with a modest budget he can definitively
| have a moderate (and even higher) lifestyle with no much
| compromises.
| colinmhayes wrote:
| Colombia is a beautiful country, but I can't agree that the
| food is amazing. On par with British cuisine.
| thegagne wrote:
| Grandview, MO.
|
| There are homes for sale for as low as $80k, so you can not only
| live cheap but build equity.
|
| It's a splurge on your budget but Google Fiber is available.
|
| Grandview is the poor side of town and many people live very
| cheap. The amenities of the KC area are nearby, many of them
| free. The parks are great.
| MauroIksem wrote:
| Bangkok
| optimalsolver wrote:
| Only if you're a Gary Glitter fan.
| stnguyenvn wrote:
| Anywhere in Vietnam, especially outside of Saigon. Good internet
| connection (I worked for companies in the US and EU with daily
| meetings for 4 years).
|
| I'd recommend Da Nang. A modern, clean city, with both beautiful
| beaches and mountains, and an international airport.
| hirako2000 wrote:
| Indonesia. And outside Jakarta to save another 40% Philippines,
| same logic avoid the capital. Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Laos,
| Myanmar (not safe these days perhaps), Peru, Mexico, Chile,
| Ukraine, Belarus, Croatia, Bulgaria, C.replublic.
|
| All those countries will cost you far less than 1k usd per month,
| given you avoid the capital city center and other hot spot where
| rent is double price.
| stereoradonc wrote:
| India!
|
| Set up a base in a Tier II City in North India.
|
| Accomodation around INR 10-15K
|
| 1GbPS Broadband: INR- 4000 (+ taxes)- This is now GST so you'd
| consolidated bill.
|
| Excellent 4G services- INR 300 with 1.5-2 GB of data per month.
| You can also opt for PostPaid.
|
| Living expenses around 15-20K (including trips for groceries+
| Uber/Ola- tide hailing). 24 hours electricity- around INR 708 per
| unit. If you run AirCon for the whole day, youd not exceed around
| INRO 10k.
|
| I am assuming you have yourself covered for Netflix etc.
|
| The cities are not exactly bicycle friendly- I ride a cycle to
| work- but you can negotiate your way around.
| shmde wrote:
| 1000USD is quite a big amount in India. You can live like a king
| with 150-200mbps, eat out frequently, go to pubs on weekends.
| Location Bangalore. The weather is mostly pleasant throughout the
| year.
| villasv wrote:
| Look for countries where the USD is in a 5y high. Brazil, for
| instance, was 2.5:1 a few years back... it's now 5.2:1. I imagine
| one or another G20 country that didn't handle COVID very well can
| be in a similar situation. This won't last forever, but it will
| last at least one or two years so it's a good opportunity for
| you.
| collaborative wrote:
| No one has said this but one option also is to book an all
| inclusive hotel deal in Spain, Portugal Morocco, Tunis, Egypt,
| Greece, Turkey or Israel. These destinations have amazing value
| for money because of the volume of tourism
|
| And you won't have to worry about cooking or cleaning. Every day
| delicious buffets and room service :-) you could even keep
| switching hotel and do some lazy traveling. I do this once a year
| but only for a couple weeks because I have a family to come back
| to. I feel reborn each time
| phonon wrote:
| For $1000 per month? Links please?
| golemiprague wrote:
| Israel is extremely expensive, not only in terms of rent but
| also basic products are double of what they cost in the US.
| Holiday package deals are way more expensive than Turkey,
| Greece or Egypt, so much so that most Israelis would rather go
| to those destinations than have a holiday inside Israel.
| gilney wrote:
| Is this possible with a 1000USD/month budget?
| simfree wrote:
| Perhaps Costa Rica if your ok with a standard of living the same
| as the locals? Most call centers there pay around $1000 a month
| for those with good English skills and an education, and their
| healthcare (universal healthcare) and education systems seem
| efficient and well ran.
| SavantIdiot wrote:
| How long?
|
| I spent 4 months in Vietnam in 2007 in HCMC. Rent was $300/mo for
| a sweet pad down the street from the Ben Thanh market. Food was
| $400/mo, and I didn't cook much at all because street food is
| cheap and delicious.
|
| However, I'm not sure how this would work out long term, like
| decades. I couldn't commit to living in a country like that full
| time. The language barrier would be overwhelming, and I did get
| tired of friends vanishing after just a few weeks. I'm a het-
| dude, and the local women I dated really wanted families -- there
| are a lot of highly successful women there who I got on with w/o
| much of a culture barrier since they had studied in US/Europe; I
| wasn't there doing the creepy-US-dude-looking-for-boomboom thing.
| Not sure I could have made a life for myself there and been happy
| into old age. I can't imagine what long term healthcare would be
| like into my 80's as an expat in Vietnam.
| DanielHouston wrote:
| You can comfortably live in Latvia on that budget, internet
| infrastructure is very good & cheap. I got by for years only
| speaking English.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| reillyse wrote:
| So I like this idea and I've spent a little time in other
| countries doing something similar. The one caveat I'd say is that
| although it's cheaper to avoid major cities it can be quite
| isolating. Depending on the level of english in the country you
| go to (I assume you are an English only speaker) you might end up
| not having a meaningful conversation in the flesh for weeks. I
| spent about 2 months in Portugal doing something similar and even
| though I sought out English speakers my conversational ability
| decreased dramatically, it was very strange. By the end I was
| literally stumbling over words and unable to make small talk with
| people. I regained it after a couple of weeks, but I was
| definitely more in my own head than usual.
|
| In a small secondary city you have a much lower chance of meeting
| ex pats to talk to (depending of course on the country)
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| > Depending on the level of english in the country you go to (I
| assume you are an English only speaker) you might end up not
| having a meaningful conversation in the flesh for weeks.
|
| One should absolutely, 100% make a good faith effort to learn
| the language of any country you intend to long-term reside in.
|
| It's for your own health. For my two cents, it'll massively
| improve your standing in the community because you won't seem
| like some fly-by-night foreigner (common reputation of
| americans, which is fine when being somewhere as a tourist but
| not long term) and will allow you to have serious conversations
| with people or at least give you a reason to try and have
| conversations with people (who are generally nice about
| foreigners attempting to pick up the local language).
| grimjack00 wrote:
| > you might end up not having a meaningful conversation in the
| flesh for weeks
|
| So pretty similar to the last 18 months.
| birdman3131 wrote:
| Is outside the US a requirement? if not I could point at a few
| cities in the us where that is doable.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| I believe $1K/person is more than enough for great living
| (including a humble but nice room rent) in the majority of
| countries (including a number of the EU members, let alone the
| "third world").
| 41209 wrote:
| I think 1k is a reasonable target for an American though.
|
| I strongly suspect I could get down to 500$ , but I don't want
| to push it.
| Frazmatazz wrote:
| The lowest median rent in the US is $725 a month in West
| Virginia and the internet access is not great.
| bialpio wrote:
| Do you by any chance know how it breaks down across
| different types of housing? Studio vs 1-bedroom vs
| 2-bedroom, townhouse vs single-family, etc? Any websites to
| find this kind of data that you'd recommend?
| Ekaros wrote:
| Finland seems possible. On condition that you don't try to do
| it around capital. Ofc, the money left over from rent doesn't
| buy very high standard of living, but it's not impossible. I
| believe same applies to other countries as well, avoid the
| expensive areas and cities.
| Leftium wrote:
| I live in Korea. Some months my total expenses are as low as $400
| while living comfortably. If I spent $1000 in a month, I spent a
| lot of money. I'd say my average monthly living expenses are
| $600-$800. My main expenses are food/entertainment, and I eat out
| a lot (50% of meals).
|
| Housing is probably the biggest living expense. I take advantage
| of Korea's interesting rental system called _Cheonsae:_
|
| Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50% to
| 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly rent
| and get the entire deposit back when you move out. My place has a
| $50 monthly management fee, but that includes high-speed
| internet. (So I joke that I get free housing with my internet.)
|
| Of course, there is an opportunity cost because that deposit
| could have generated interest, but I figure the break-even point
| is 12% APY. (It is possible to lower the deposit by increasing
| monthly rent.) So it's advantageous to take out a bank loan at
| 2-4% interest to pay for the deposit.
|
| There is a small risk you won't be able to get your deposit back
| if the owner mismanages their finances. I believe the Korean
| government actually guarantees housing deposits up to $50,0000 or
| so. In Korea, the tenants actually do background checks on the
| landlords! The minimum deposit is usually $10,000, so landlords
| usually don't scrutinize tenants.
| ai_ia wrote:
| Korea is something I have on my mind for so long. I would love
| a detailed blog post regarding your experience living in Korea
| as an expat with breakdown of cost and how you ended up there.
| Seems like an interesting journey to know about.
| Leftium wrote:
| It's been quite an interesting journey! The original plan was
| to study Korean language for just a year, then I kept
| extending the trip...
|
| I haven't blogged in a long time, but here are the Korea-
| related blog posts:
|
| http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/my-life-prologue.html
|
| http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/past-month-in-review.html
|
| http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/my-life-chapter-i.html
|
| http://blog.leftium.com/2010/08/dragon-flies-and-praying-
| man...
|
| http://blog.leftium.com/2010/09/how-to-eat-korean-food.html
|
| http://blog.leftium.com/2010/10/october-update-whats-good-
| in...
| kadomony wrote:
| How do you stay there? Just in an education visa?
| ai_ia wrote:
| Thank you. Reading it right now.
| IkmoIkmo wrote:
| I always found that system super interesting!
|
| What would the equivalent rent have been for the place you live
| in for free (with 90k deposit)?
|
| In nominal terms the S&P500 would do 10% a year or so on
| average. Over the past decade it's been 14.7%, so that $90k
| would've returned 13k a year on average.
|
| In general I feel South Korea has been a great value for money
| location, if you bring external capital. If I compare it to
| neighbouring Japan for example, prices seem so much more
| affordable. Of course the working culture is not easy, but for
| OP it'd be a great choice.
| rwmj wrote:
| The maths behind this is similar to UK leasehold. With a
| leasehold (which is a truly terrible system) you pay as if
| you're buying the flat, but actually you only have a lease
| usually with a very small annual payment and some management
| charges. The catch is the lease only lasts usually 99 years and
| for various legal reasons you have to renew it before it drops
| below 80 years, and that costs a bunch of money.
|
| Leaseholders are called "homeowners" but they don't really own
| the home in the normal sense and are closer to long term
| renters in their rights.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50%
| to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly
| rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out.
|
| That's kind of a strange system. Any idea how it evolved there?
| Basically sounds like the landlord has to invest the money in
| such a way as to get a return that would be equivalent to rent
| but also safe enough so that they can return the deposit. I
| don't think I'd want to be a landlord there.
| yongjik wrote:
| I believe the system was adopted in the old days with very
| high interest rates (~10% was common) - landlords could
| easily expect to make enough return.
|
| It's actually greatly favorable to landlords. Just think
| about what happens when one side is out of money. Under the
| monthly rent system, landlords can't get any more money until
| they evict the renter (which is a lot of hassle, anywhere in
| the world). Under the "jeonse" system, if the landlord
| becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large
| portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new
| owner - without any money to find the next place.
|
| (There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is
| still there.)
| chrischen wrote:
| Would the new landlord inherit the liabilities of the
| house?
| yongjik wrote:
| Not an expert, but I think there's a good chance the
| renter will lose money. When this happens, the landlord
| usually has more debt than the house is worth, so the
| renter has to compete with other lenders. (There's some
| legal protection, but I don't think it's bulletproof.)
| Leftium wrote:
| I believe the system started when there were double digit
| interest rates (in the 80's?).
|
| Now interest rates are much lower, but Koreans got used to
| paying $0 rent and anything above that feels like they are
| being ripped off.
|
| One reason landlords like the system is because they can
| daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take
| the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another
| property, then use the cheonsae deposit from the 2nd property
| to purchase a 3rd property, and so on...
|
| Even if landlords don't receive monthly rent, they expect to
| earn money on the increased value of the property. Cheonsae
| contracts are normally 2 years, then they can ask for more
| deposit or sell the property for a profit.
|
| More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeonse
| rwmj wrote:
| But why couldn't the renter use the deposit to buy a house
| instead?
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| It makes zero sense to me that you would have 80% or even
| 50% of a property's market value and not just buy the
| place as opposed to letting someone else.
|
| Do they not do home mortgages in South Korea? Are
| properties expected to go down in price?
| cortesoft wrote:
| Whether properties are expected to go down in price or
| not doesn't change the fact that their is always a risk
| that property drops in price.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| It would affect whether or not someone feels like buying
| it.
| bonzini wrote:
| Maybe buying a house would be less liquid?
| cortesoft wrote:
| Risk... you are exposed to the risk of decreasing
| property values if you buy.
| drusepth wrote:
| Since you seem to get the whole deposit back, it seems
| like it'd be preferable to rent in many situations if the
| landlord still assumes liabilities (repairs, disasters,
| etc) and the costs associated with them. If it's "free"
| to live there either way, I'd rather someone else cough
| up 10k for a new AC, heater, etc.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Why would you not want to pay more rent and invest the
| rest of the savings? The landlord (at least in the US)
| almost always has to pick up the tab for all those
| repairs anyway.
| dharmab wrote:
| This reads like a Ponzi scheme, if you consider the tenants
| as investors.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| In a country with the third highest population density in
| the world and a solid advanced economy? (discounting
| city-states and low-population states)
|
| There are worse places to make that bet.
| jimbokun wrote:
| That sounds like the reasoning used in the US before the
| big 2008 housing market crash.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| If everyone makes the same bet, it can still lead to
| disaster (real estate must rise! Let's all speculate on
| real estate! --> eventual disaster).
|
| Or let's put it this way: a rational bet is something
| like, this thing is worth $50 now, it will be worth at
| least $100 later. An irrational bet is one like "this
| thing will be worth more over and over again!" If
| everyone things like that, then the thing's price will
| keep rising until the bubble bursts.
| marvinkennis wrote:
| Maybe I'm missing something here, and I just read the
| Wikipedia article you linked. If the landlord takes the
| cash and buys the property, then the cash is gone and there
| is no cash to get interest on. Does the landlord just
| pocket the property appreciation?
| finance_astroid wrote:
| In a way yes. But its also using leverage to amplify your
| gains.
|
| Say I get $90,000 to go buy a house, I spend the $90,000
| and have 1 door. I get a tenant in it and they make a
| $90,000 down payment. I then go buy another house and get
| another tenant in it and they make a $90,000 down
| payment. I now have two houses and still have the same
| amount of money I started with, I can continue this cycle
| and as long as property appreciates I don't just get the
| property appreciation from one house I get it from all of
| the houses so (% appreciation * property value * number
| of properties).
|
| Say it is a $100,000 property and it appreciates 3%. If I
| had just bought one house and put the money in an
| interest yielding savings account I would get some low %
| return. If I instead chained it to acquire 10 houses I
| would get $30,000 return, which is 30%. But if the value
| of the house goes down it works against me!
|
| Obviously this ignores transaction costs, interest costs
| etc.
| jfrunyon wrote:
| > they can daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties.
| They take the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase
| another property
|
| And then they have to return the deposit eventually... how
| is this different from a Ponzi scheme? :P
| tinco wrote:
| You ask jokingly, but the serious answer is that there's
| an actual scarce asset behind it. Sort of like Bitcoin ;)
| Whether the scheme artificially inflates the value of the
| asset remains to be seen of course. I feel the fact that
| the contracts usually only last 2 years or less really
| takes the sting out of the risk of collapse, but I'm no
| economist. Also if it's been going on since the 80's,
| that means it's been going strong through 30 years of
| turbulent economical climates.
| koolba wrote:
| > One reason landlords like the system is because they can
| daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take
| the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another
| property, then use the cheonsae deposit from the 2nd
| property to purchase a 3rd property, and so on...
|
| That sounds like it'd be a disaster during a liquidity
| crunch.
| azth wrote:
| This is the natural outcome of building an economy based
| on usury/interest, which is exactly what this transaction
| is.
| acchow wrote:
| It becomes a too-big-to-fail system, with the government
| stepping in as needed (implicit subsidy).
| throwawayswede wrote:
| Sounds like a recipe for a housing market collapse...
| [deleted]
| scottlamb wrote:
| > That's kind of a strange system. Any idea how it evolved
| there? Basically sounds like the landlord has to invest the
| money in such a way as to get a return that would be
| equivalent to rent but also safe enough so that they can
| return the deposit. I don't think I'd want to be a landlord
| there.
|
| I was thinking the same, but here's another way of framing
| it: they're like real estate agents [1] in the US, except
| that instead of keeping a 2.5%-5% commission at every sale,
| they keep the capital gains. They may not need to invest
| deposits at all to make money.
|
| To me renting under this system doesn't seem clearly better
| than buying. You're paying most of the money to buy the
| property, but it's not an investment. You can't come out
| ahead. But at least there's no risk or hassle of doing
| property maintenance.
|
| [edit: no, I just saw yongjik's comment: "Under the 'jeonse'
| system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is
| suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and
| will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find
| the next place. (There are insurances to protect renters but
| the risk is still there.)" I don't think I'd like to rent
| under this system at all.]
|
| [1] and property managers who handle repairs and such, but
| that's probably not how they make their money at $50/month.
| glitchc wrote:
| If I'm putting 90% of the value, why don't I just add another
| 10% and buy the property outright? Are there restrictions on
| who can buy a house/apartment in Korea?
| pie_flavor wrote:
| You perhaps missed that you get the _whole_ deposit back. The
| landlord doesn 't keep it. You could buy the property
| outright, or you could live somewhere for essentially free,
| as long as you don't value the interest on that cash more
| than you value the place you're staying.
| jliptzin wrote:
| Giving that much money to a landlord is absolutely
| terrifying to me given the history of landlords I've had.
| I'd much rather own the property and deal with any
| transaction costs associated with selling.
| vmception wrote:
| Basically, nobody wants to admit that their own country's
| long established and respected systems are ponzi schemes.
|
| Many South Korean landlords are underwater on a bad
| investment and use the next renter's deposit to pay out
| the last. Citation not possible.
|
| The point of the system was to spur investment in the
| south korean economy.
| willcipriano wrote:
| Who is responsible for repairs?
| Leftium wrote:
| Not quite sure what the exact laws are, but generally the
| landlord fixes stuff. They will even replace lightbulbs,
| within reason. If there is a small thing I can fix on my
| own, I'll just do it myself.
|
| Usually there is a monthly management fee that ranges
| from $50 to $100+ dollars that covers cleaning of common
| areas, repairs, etc.
| throwawayswede wrote:
| That sounds strange, what's in it for the landlord?
| beervirus wrote:
| Interest income on the deposit.
| spoonjim wrote:
| No credit risk from the tenant.
| danr4 wrote:
| 0 interest loan I guess
| jayadeeptp wrote:
| Opportunity cost. Landlord can use the money to invest
| elsewhere and make more than the minimum 12% APY. It is
| like 0% interest loan for the length of the tenant stay.
| Leftium wrote:
| See my other comment:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28319313
| peakaboo wrote:
| Sounds like a too good to be true situation...
| flemhans wrote:
| Still, why not pay 10% more and own the building? You could
| still get the money back (and hopefully more) when you sell
| it again.
| phonebanshee wrote:
| Or potentially a lot less. The idea that real estate
| always goes up doesn't match reality.
| tannhauser23 wrote:
| Owner might not want to sell?
| lolsal wrote:
| Transaction costs, taxes, maintenance, interest
| opportunity cost, etc. all of the same reasons that it
| might be cheaper to rent in the USA than buy.
| bigthymer wrote:
| I'd imagine transaction costs on real estate are
| high...maybe even approaching 10%.
| glitchc wrote:
| Didn't miss it, just also noted that if the landlord loses
| the money or goes bankrupt or just skips town, in a foreign
| country without strong connections and shaky command of the
| language, you are likely screwed.
| chemmail wrote:
| Good luck with any cheonsae, you are dealing with Koreans, and
| there is a chance that deposit won't be there waiting for you
| or that company just disappearing.
| FabHK wrote:
| Just for the record, I don't think that South Korea is
| particularly cheap. As OP demonstrates, one can live there for
| USD 1000/month, but that really holds for most countries. While
| the US is in the top 5% in terms of nominal GDP per capita,
| South Korea is in the top 15%. For cheap, yet comfortable and
| safe, I'd aim around the median, eg Indonesia or Georgia.
|
| ETA: Nomadlist suggests EUR1,925/mo for Seoul, EUR1,530/mo for
| Jeju Island, South Korea; EUR1,047/mo for Tbilisi, Georgia;
| EUR627/mo for Bandung, Indonesia.
|
| ETA: Nomadlist has a list of places below USD 1000/mo:
| https://nomadlist.com/places-on-a-budget
| busterarm wrote:
| Give Busan some consideration.
| postsantum wrote:
| Nomadlist is often way off on their estimates. I'd suggest
| using it for inspiration only and then see prices on Numbeo
| et2o wrote:
| Off in one direction or just randomly?
| yorwba wrote:
| In my experience of living in Shanghai, Nomadlist and
| Numbeo estimates are way too high. That's not to say that
| rich expats aren't actually paying those prices (someone
| must've entered them, right?) but if you're willing to
| shop around and learn the local language so you don't get
| ripped off like an ignorant foreigner, you should be able
| to get things much cheaper.
| postsantum wrote:
| Too high. For example, for my home city there is a figure
| that would be the 90th percentile net salary
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| I always thought that's by design - that's the cost of a
| nomad living there for a short period of time
| cybwraith wrote:
| Since you seem to be informed here, how would one look for
| places like this that are explicitly _not_ hot & humid, near
| tropical locations? Effectively a climate and geography
| filter on this site with "has winters, mountains"
| LurkingPenguin wrote:
| Expat here. Reality is that there aren't a lot of "cheap"
| places, easily accessible to foreigners, that meet this
| criteria.
| m0zg wrote:
| You don't have to live in the capital of Georgia (or Korea
| for that matter). Just a little outside the capital is
| already much more reasonable. You also don't have to maintain
| 100% "western" standard of living either, seeing that you
| aren't in the West. Very few people in Georgia make 1000+
| euro, and they're doing OK with less. In rural Georgia you'd
| be living like royalty with that kind of monthly spend. It's
| also beautiful, and people are real nice. The only thing to
| watch out for is, of course, the internet.
| lsllc wrote:
| If you're ok with Georgia, you should check out Batumi.
| It's a bustling coastal city that's seen impressive growth
| since independence. It's also pretty close to Turkey, so
| there are land routes to Trabzon (and flights from there to
| Istanbul).
|
| Batumi is also known as Colchis, the destination for the
| Argonauts in Greek Mythology, so plenty of history &
| culture and great food.
|
| The Grand Tour did a special driving through Georgia to
| Azerbaijan if you want to get a feel for what the region
| looks like:
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6068920/
| koilke wrote:
| If property returns around 5% per year, lending $90k for a stay
| would be around $4.5k per year and represent perhaps a $375
| monthly apartment. Given that you are not even paying fully for
| the apartment, this makes it possibly even more valuable. This
| can be considered quite decent given that there is more or less
| no risk involved. An index fund may generate higher returns
| maybe even 7% but given the low risk the system may be
| generous. As an institution it may of course beg other
| questions if the money is well invested, if it creates a bubble
| etc.
|
| Housing returns:https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_paper
| s/w24112/w241... S&P :
| https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average...
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I'm guessing this is outside of Seoul. It's been a decade since
| I visited Seoul and while I remember it being surprisingly
| affordable, I don't remember it being _that_ affordable in
| Seoul.
|
| I can easily imagine somewhere outside Seoul/Jeju/Busan being
| surprisingly affordable
| Leftium wrote:
| Correct: I'm in Gimpo, but it's not far from Seoul. Kind of
| like the Seoul metro area or a suburb. I can get to Seoul by
| public transportation (subway/bus) within an hour. And the
| fare is only $2-3.
|
| And I was a little fast and loose with the KRW-USD
| conversion. I opted for the simple 1USD == 1000KRW, so the
| actual numbers are a little higher.
| gremloni wrote:
| Interesting. So it's like buying a place with a guaranteed
| buyer on the other side but no upside n the value of the house
| increasing. I don't think I would want to live in that
| situation. It's not like houses are that hard to sell.
| 41209 wrote:
| That seems like a very very good idea.
|
| I wouldn't do it unless I had a partner who is already a
| citizen , but I'll definitely keep this in mind.
|
| How much is rent if I didn't want to deposit that much ?
| [deleted]
| Leftium wrote:
| The general formula to convert from housing deposit to
| monthly rent is $10,000 deposit equals $50 monthly rent.
| (Until recently it was $100 rent). It's possible to find
| lower, but $10,000 is usually the minimum deposit.
|
| Housing costs will vary greatly depending on location.
| $90,000 is in Gimpo, just outside of Seoul. Busan is probably
| half the cost of Seoul, and outside any major metro areas
| it's probably even lower.
|
| Also even within the same real estate market prices vary
| greatly depending on the neighborhood, type, and size of
| unit. Another major factor is distance to nearest public
| transportation (subway).
|
| Another thing to note is since monthly rent is usually more
| profitable for landowners, there is a movement away from the
| cheonsae system. However, I was still able to find plenty of
| options exactly one year ago.
| e12e wrote:
| Thank you! Now I understand rent fraud (as seen in "Stranger"
| https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6461346/ ). I couldn't understand
| how _rent_ fraud could end up costing someone _all_ their life
| savings - but now I see.
| csomar wrote:
| 12% is pretty high yield for the modern/western world. South
| Korea central rate is %0.75 according to Google. Where does the
| 11.25% come from?
| caiomassan wrote:
| in crypto 12% is quite low.
| Leftium wrote:
| That is exactly my point. There is an opportunity cost in
| keeping a large deposit (lost interest/investment
| opportunities). However that opportunity earn a certain APY
| in order to be a better "investment" than the housing deposit
| (a penny saved is a penny earned):
|
| - $10,000 additional deposit reduces monthly rent by $50.
|
| - 50 * 12 = 600
|
| - 600/10,000 = 6%
|
| The monthly rent reduction used to be $100 per $10,000. So it
| used to be 12%. I guess the break-even point is 6%, now...
|
| Concrete example: I could reduce the deposit from $90,000 to
| $10,000. But then my rent would go from $0/month to
| $400/month. So by keeping a large deposit, I save $4800/year
| in rent.
| gowld wrote:
| 11.25% is the imputed value of $0 rent after down payment.
| azth wrote:
| > Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50%
| to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly
| rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out.
|
| So you're giving them a usurious loan basically.
| resoluteteeth wrote:
| How is a zero interest loan usurious?
| azth wrote:
| Interest doesn't have to be money, it's any benefit
| received for giving a loan. In this case, the benefit
| received is staying in the apartment unit in exchange for
| the loan.
| dusted wrote:
| staying out of major cities can make rent or buying a home an
| order of magnitude cheaper.
| fluder wrote:
| Ukraine -- almost in any city. I recommend Kharkiv and Lviv.
| adventured wrote:
| Kharkiv would be difficult if you don't know Russian. English
| adoption is very low there.
| hourislate wrote:
| You would live incredibly well in Ukraine on $1000 a month.
|
| https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Lviv?displayCurrenc...
| EB-Barrington wrote:
| It should be noted, although Kyiv is doable for $1k, that would
| be mainly dependent upon securing cheap rent (somewhat
| difficult for someone new to the city). I would place Kyiv in
| the 4k per month bracket to live "incredibly well". Yes, this
| is a subjective measure).
|
| From your link: "Rent Prices in Lviv are 39.98% lower than in
| Kiev (Kyiv)" (in reality, in many scenarios the difference is
| greater than that).
|
| Info: securing a three year resident visa in Ukraine is very
| easy.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| Lviv is a great city as well. I liked it better than Kyiv
| personally and I have spent many months in both.
| sureklix wrote:
| Go to south west Turkey. Several kite surfing towns, food is very
| similar to Greek, people are super friendly, weather is
| fantastic. Internet is good enough. Finally, 1K USD a month is
| equivalent to a local mid-level engineer net salary.
| inson wrote:
| Eastern part is cheaper and less crowded.
| dougmwne wrote:
| Lots and lots of places. Plenty of the world is safe, cheap and
| easy to live in for a few months.
|
| Do you have any specific time zone requirements? That makes a big
| difference if collaborating with anyone.
|
| The length of time you can stay on a tourist visa has a big
| impact. It is limited to 90 days in most of the EU where there
| are open borders. You would need to fully exit the schengen zone
| countries for 90 days to be eligible for another 90. This is one
| of the things that makes Croatia and Bulgaria popular, since they
| are within the EU, but outside schengen. A few countries are
| starting digital nomad visas, so if you want to stay longer you
| can look into those.
|
| Not sure what your vibe is, but check out Bansko, Bulgaria as a
| nice summer and winter destination with a good set of coworking
| spaces, extremely cheap cost of living and expat/digital nomad
| community. Lisbon and Chiang Mai are also very popular in the DN
| community. Really a lot of this would depend on the time of year
| for me since I like being places when the weather is nice.
|
| And an obligatory mention of health insurance in these covid
| times. Travel insurance can be quite cheap and the health care
| systems of other countries can have vastly reduced prices as
| well, just make sure you have looked into this and made a plan.
| ofou wrote:
| Pichilemu, Valparaiso (Vina del Mar) or Santiago of Chile are
| actually pretty good, safe and cheap, and there's a Google node
| just a couple of streets of the port in Valpo.
|
| Chile is also 8th in the world in Fixed Broadband. source:
| https://www.speedtest.net/global-index
| Ramiuz wrote:
| Can confirm as a Chilean. Santiago gets more expensive as you
| approach the main part of the city (Which offers more
| amenities), but overall, living with 1k USD is very doable
| (specially with the actual conversion rate).
|
| Living in other regions will be MUCH cheaper, but they tend to
| be more simple (outside the tourists hubs).
| screye wrote:
| You should check out touristy parts of India. Kerala backwaters
| or Himalayan towns of Dharamshala, Manali, Gangtok would also
| work. Alternatively, be basic and go to Goa. If there is one
| thing India has, it is good internet.
| pvaldes wrote:
| Take in mind that housing is typically more expensive for
| foreigners/tourists than for nationals in most countries
|
| (Because nationals have a social net of family and friends that
| tourists don't have and because locals have more information
| about the place (were to go for eat cheap, streets to avoid,
| etc...).
|
| Being able to blend with the background can be a big advantage.
| jonatron wrote:
| Not quite $1k per month, but in the cheap areas of the UK you can
| rent for $620/mo, call bills another $230. After adding food, you
| won't be far over $1000. Just in case you wanted an English
| speaking country and could stretch the budget.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| How cheap is Norwich?
| jonatron wrote:
| Not the cheapest. Rent would be more like $900.
| dmje wrote:
| You'd be really pushed to live on $150/m food. That's PS110.
| Even if you went veggie, super healthy, cooked yourself I think
| you'd struggle. And zero going out or booze...
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| You can do it even cheaper than that: there's a one-bedroom
| studio flat on Rightmove right now for $380pcm in Newtown, mid-
| Wales, for example. Newtown itself is ok but the surrounding
| countryside is gorgeous.
| virtualwhys wrote:
| Chiang Mai, dirt cheap (as little as $100/month rent, wood
| floors, mountain view). Poor air quality, great local food.
|
| Da Nang, Vietnam. Bit more expensive, $200/month rent on the low
| end. Friendly people, surprisingly even to Americans. Great air
| quality, decent enough waves in winter if you surf. Terrible
| local food, but certain areas cater to foreigners and there the
| food is excellent ($5 to $15).
|
| Internet is solid in both locations.
| jl2718 wrote:
| I can nearly guarantee that there are many people living under
| $1k/mo within 10 miles of wherever you are. That's the low-chaos
| option if you really want to focus.
|
| Such a question is common from people who are running away from
| an unhealthy situation unrelated to geography. If so, maybe cut
| that off prior to and independently of the move, and then
| probably move anyway.
| tyingq wrote:
| There would be a huge bridge trying to live on $1k/month in the
| US, assuming you were ratcheting down from some larger income.
| You wouldn't qualify for subsidized health insurance, for
| example, until that $1k/month was in place for a year.
| ghaff wrote:
| It depends where you are. You're almost certainly going to have
| car costs if you're not in _some_ city--and for many cities you
| 're going to have to put up with miserable bus service. I'm
| pretty sure you're not going to draw a 10 mile radius from SF,
| Manhattan, or Boston and get to $1K/month or it's going to be
| _really_ miserable.
|
| Your statement's probably literally true but I assume it's
| mostly people living with family or other community.
| 41209 wrote:
| >Such a question is common from people who are running away
| from an unhealthy situation unrelated to geography. If so,
| maybe cut that off prior to and independently of the move, and
| then probably move anyway.
|
| I have a ton of money saved up and I've never gotten a chance
| to live in another country.
|
| So why not. Worst come to worse I can always come back and
| proceed to work another 30 years.
| SavantIdiot wrote:
| 10 miles outside of Austin? Not bloody likely. I mean, if you
| wanted 5 roommates, sure. But food and transportation (car or
| not) would be brutal. And say hello to feeling sick from eating
| the cheapest possible food (goodbye fresh veggies). Or did you
| mean the people living under tarps by the freeway? I'm sure
| they live off <1k.
| artem247 wrote:
| Ukraine fits the bill, you can rent a nice apartment in downtown
| part of town, internet is cheap and fast, food costs something
| like 3 times less then US, cities are walkable, you don't really
| need a car. Lviv or Ivano-Frankivsk for a more cozy atmosphere or
| Kyiv if you really want to live in a big city.
|
| Climate is on the other hand, winters could be cold and summers
| unpleasantly hot so in that regard Balkans could be better.
| retrac wrote:
| Honestly, decent health insurance will be the biggest cost in
| many cases, whatever country you go to. The subsidized stuff is
| usually only available to citizens and permanent residents. A
| short-term visitor has to pay full up front. While healthcare
| costs in lower income nations are lower they're not trivial.
|
| Otherwise, even a high-cost country like Canada (or the USA) can
| just about be afforded on $1000 a month if you go out in the
| sticks and cook for yourself and take transit and walk. But non-
| residents are looking at that much again, for private health
| insurance.
| bitcurious wrote:
| Kiev is great. Cheap apartment about $500, coworking around $140,
| $300 for food with a decent amount of eating out at lower end
| places.
| keiferski wrote:
| I recommend the Balkans, in particular the less touristic
| countries. Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria are all very
| inexpensive, safe, have reliable internet, and an abundance of
| cafes and co-working spaces. Most also have favorable visa
| conditions for Americans (e.g. Albania lets Americans stay up to
| a year on a tourist visa.) In terms of cities, I recommend
| Belgrade and Sarajevo the most.
|
| Going further east, Tbilisi (Georgia) and Lviv (Ukraine) are also
| very inexpensive yet safe and filled with interesting culture.
|
| Due to the Turkish lira collapsing, Turkey is also very
| inexpensive if you have USD. You can rent an apartment in central
| Istanbul for +-$400 a month.
| 41209 wrote:
| >Due to the Turkish lira collapsing
|
| That doesn't bold well for stability. Hungry did appear on my
| list, the rent seems very very low.
|
| Right now I'm trying to see where COVID-19 will be in a few
| months. If it's still not possible to travel easily, I might
| need to stay and save for a bit longer.
| throw63738 wrote:
| Turkey is stable, maybe there could be revolution, but normal
| traveler will hardly notice. Airport may be closed for couple
| of days. I was there during coup.
|
| Also turkey is big and diverse, so if borders closes, it is
| still large country to travel. It hardly puts any limitations
| on foreigners.
| keiferski wrote:
| The lira has been down for quite some time. I wouldn't
| consider it indicative of future instability.
|
| Hungary is also a good (and affordable) choice. Budapest is
| probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe, IMO.
| Macha wrote:
| Hungary does have the Orban and anti-LGBT situations, so
| your personal comfort at living in such an environment is
| something to consider.
| therufa wrote:
| It's not as severe as advertised.
| kodzoman wrote:
| I second this, I would add Croatia to the list if you stay out
| of Zagreb and Split and even seaside tourist towns are doable
| for $300 out of season (October to June). Also Croatia offers a
| digital nomad visa which means you don't pay most of the taxes
| there.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| Which levels of security will you find in Croatia - including
| appropriate behaviour of public officers, such as the police?
|
| Also - how widespread is the understanding of the English
| language?
| academia_hack wrote:
| In my experience, even the worst parts of Croatia are safer
| and have more responsible cops than the sketchy parts of
| any mid-sized US city. Young people are fluent in English,
| along with most well-off middle-aged folks who know enough
| to consume the internet/English movies and television since
| Croatian isn't a hugely used language in media. Elderly
| people who don't live in touristic areas may know very
| little English but it's rarely a problem.
| dsego wrote:
| This 35-year-old left the U.S. for Croatia: 'I live on $47
| a day -- here's a look at how I spend my time'
|
| https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/21/this-35-year-old-expat-
| lives...
| dougmwne wrote:
| From what I understand it is very safe and fairly low
| corruption. English is widespread, especially in cities and
| costal towns with tourism. It is an absolutely gorgeous
| country, very Italian in character, but minus the chaos and
| cheaper as well.
| input_sh wrote:
| In my experience police was extremely professional in every
| interaction. Hell, I've even witnessed them refusing a
| bribe (body cameras tend to do that). Healthcare is also
| cheap. Had multiple tests to determine whether I needed an
| operation with no health insurance (I was on a vacation
| there that time) and it cost me below 150EUR.
|
| As for language, of course, your experience will depend on
| where you want to live in the country. North-east sees less
| tourists than the coast, and finding that sweet middle
| might take some trial and error.
| zucked wrote:
| I lived in Albania for three years - it's _not_ at the level of
| the other countries on this list. It 's firmly a developing
| country - water, electricity and other infrastructure are not
| great in the capital and degrade precipitously in the
| countryside and second-tier cities.
|
| It's a great place if you're adventurous - if you're looking
| for stability, it isn't the place for you. Upsides are that
| Albanians love Americans (as opposed to the Serbs, who often
| harbor a grudge) and generally speak at least some english.
| Prices for things like coffee, etc. are low.
|
| Albanians also have not been very good stewards of their
| environments, either - litter is a constant, nobody gives an
| "F" about rules and regulations, practically all the endemic
| animals have disappeared, and waterways, including beaches, are
| quite polluted. Cities are a hodgepodge of chaotic construction
| and barely-functioning infrastructure.
|
| I lived roughly here:
| https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,24...
|
| If that kind of scene excites you, perhaps Albania is for you.
| keiferski wrote:
| Eh, it's the Balkans. I wouldn't call it a developing
| country, but sure, many parts of this region are rough around
| the edges in terms of infrastructure.
| giantg2 wrote:
| You list Ukraine as safe. How's the current thing with Russia?
| [deleted]
| keiferski wrote:
| Lviv is in the western part of Ukraine, about 1,000km from
| the fighting in the east. Completely safe.
|
| For comparison, Lviv to Donetsk is a greater distance than
| Berlin to Paris or London to Milan, and only slightly less
| than New York to Chicago.
| dougmwne wrote:
| I have heard very nice things about Lviv from friends and
| family, small but very pretty and extremely cheap.
| la_fayette wrote:
| I can also highly recommend Bulgaria (Sofia). With 1000$ you'll
| have a decent lifestyle there. I did my Erasmus there with less
| money. The people are extremely helpful and friendly to
| foreigners. There is also a tech scene with meetups etc, were
| you can connect with other people. As a side note BG has the
| most beatiful women in the world...
| academia_hack wrote:
| Yeah. The quality of life available in many of these major
| Balkan cities is on-par with anywhere else in Europe for a tiny
| fraction of the price. You can find lovely flats in the urban
| center Sofia, Bulgaria for less than $500 pcm, pay basically no
| local taxes, access the quality of music/museums/restaurants
| you'd expect in any other capital city, use a solid public
| transport system, and get healthcare that beats the USA in both
| quality and cost. Add in a gorgeous countryside, safety orders
| of magnitude better than major US cities, and decent English
| skills among the younger generations and it's a very easy place
| to pass a year or two. Something to consider for retirement
| too. Trying to convince my parents to give that a go, since
| they'd be able to live like kings on their modest savings
| rather than developing ulcers from constant fear of retirement
| ending healthcare mishaps.
| coolgoose wrote:
| Romania :)
| nazgulnarsil wrote:
| I have done a bit of cross checking of different quality of life
| metrics and from what I have seen Croatia/Slovenia, Portugal, and
| South Korea emerge as outliers on the tradeoffs between cost and
| quality of life. If you are English speaking Croatia and Slovenia
| become the winner.
| fridif wrote:
| Solar panel + battery + 5g internet + tent + food + car + Bureau
| of Land Management campable land.
|
| Thank me later!
| ssijak wrote:
| You can do it pretty much anywere. But yeah, Eastern Europe or SE
| Asia would be easier then Western Europe.
|
| If you wan't similar culture, go for Eastern Europe capital
| cities. In Belgrade where I am from you can get 10gbps internet
| at home where there is fiber, if no fiber then 200-300mbps cable.
|
| In Thailand and Bali I also experienced very good 4g internet and
| good fiber optic cable net.
| throw63738 wrote:
| Bulgaria, very nice country with forests, mountains and sea. Also
| sort of tax heaven. Or Georgia, very visa friendly.
|
| Do not go somewhere hot with too many distractions. It will ruin
| your productivity.
| [deleted]
| gmorning315 wrote:
| Europe: Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Hungary, Lithuania. Of these
| countries Romania and Hungary have the fastest internet speed.
| See this map and click NUTS-3
| https://datavis.europeandatajournalism.eu/obct/connectivity/
|
| They seem to have faster internet speeds than some western
| countries like the UK and Germany. They seem lower on crime too:
| https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2...
|
| Outside Europe there are lots of others, but I don't know about
| internet speed and crime rate. Just that the culture would be
| very different from the US. You can sort by monthly income here
| https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| Vilnius can be done for $1k/mo. Rents would be $300-600, food
| is like $100, health insurance for non-schengen is another
| $200/mo. Nightlife is fun too, not expensive. Vilnius is not
| exactly progressive but largely chill on issues of race and
| alternate sexuality.
| satellite2 wrote:
| Warning in Hungary though, with Orban's government if you are
| not perfectly white, straight and Christian you might want to
| avoid it.
| quantumBerry wrote:
| Paraguay. Cost of living $300/mo in Asuncion. You can get
| permanent visa allowing you full rights to live and work for life
| by depositing 5k in local bank.
| subpixel wrote:
| Also, the best coffee I have ever had in my life.
| NKosmatos wrote:
| There many cities in Greece where you can live with 1k. Patras,
| Chania, Ioannina and other relatively small cities offer a good
| balance between cost of living and access to various activities.
| Try to avoid Athens and the well known islands & tourist places
| since rent is expensive. Greece is safer than other Eastern
| European countries (IMHO), has relatively good internet access,
| more sun, friendlier people and most people know English. There
| are many co-working spaces available and there are some
| government programs running for attracting digital nomads (tax
| exemptions, work visa...).
| andi999 wrote:
| You also need to check on visa requirements. Usually you cannot
| stay longer than 3 month per half year in Schengen on a tourist
| visa. I read a while ago some countries have special arrangement
| with th le US, but either this expired or it is well hidden.
| xupybd wrote:
| Vietnam is crazy cheap. A big city will have great internet. The
| south is a little more western but really hot. The north is very
| nice too. Hanoi is a little more expensive. If you leave the
| country you can get another travel visa for 3 months. So if you
| take a small holiday every three months you can stay for a long
| time. Covid has the shut down but that won't be forever.
| dvh wrote:
| I live in Slovakia and I have spent EUR4112.09 in entire 2020 on
| everything (housing, food, hobbies, ...), I don't have a car so
| that could raise your spending (although you should not need one,
| you're be sitting on your ass making a game, mass transit is
| decent too). I also live in my own 1 room apartment so no rent,
| but bills are like 120/month (heating, water, maintenance, ...).
| Health insurance is EUR80/month. Internet costs EUR7/month for 80
| MBit/s. Cheapest shared local lamp web hosting costs EUR3/month.
| Lunch in restaurant EUR5. Avoid capital and go to second or third
| largest city. If you are not white you will get stares.
| ews wrote:
| You can live in some areas in Spain for under $1k/month (outside
| the main cities of Madrid and Barcelona). I lived some years in
| Andalusia and my budget was usually around 600eur/month. Not a
| luxurious life, but Spain has really good
| services/transportation/infra (including internet) and the
| weather is difficult to beat.
| changemememe wrote:
| Central Portugal: an hours drive to the beach and incredibly low
| cost of living at small towns. Amazing food and weather, very low
| crime rate, easy access to well connected international airports
| (Porto), easy access to regional tech hubs (Lisbon and Porto)
|
| Example: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Viseu
| pelasaco wrote:
| With 850 euros, you don't live well in Portugal.. you survive.
| Disclosure: I live part-time there and I love it.
| quotz wrote:
| You can do this in Greece, cities like Thessaloniki or Athens, or
| even some satelite towns there on the beach. Also Balkans, Sofia
| and Belgrade are beautiful and 1K goes a long way.
| devops000 wrote:
| Southern Italy. You can live in a small but beautiful village in
| the south (e.g Sicily) or any seaside village during
| autumn/winter. If you like mountains you have to go north
| (Dolomites) but it's harder to find a small village for 1k/month
| in winter.
|
| Obviously living in big city like Milan or Rome costs around
| 1500-2000EUR/month for living.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| Honest question: if you're a long-term visitor, do you get
| affected by the organised crime at all? My general impression
| is that tourists are fine, but business owners are in the
| receiving end of the nastiness.
|
| Digital nomads feel like something in between.
| devops000 wrote:
| Organized crime have international business operation bigger
| than us. They don't care about you. It's just a movie
| stereotype.
|
| If you go to Sicily you should more worry about you how much
| good food you will eat rather than organized crime :)
| rich_sasha wrote:
| I loved loved LOVED Sicily as a tourist. One of the few
| things holding me back from moving there would be the above
| concern.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| You are probably not going to open a shop - so, I guess you
| will be basically "invisible" anyway.
| lormayna wrote:
| As Italian, I can say that there is not any risk about
| organised crime for a "normal" person, unless you are not
| going to open a shop. I would feel safer in Sicily than in
| some zones of Milan.
| [deleted]
| nice_byte wrote:
| Armenia. Internet service is good. Cost of living is cheap.
| Yerevan is a modern, safe, mid-sized city that is easy to get
| around. Lots of bars, restaurants if you're into that kind of
| stuff. There's a small tight-knit tech community.
|
| Downsides: language barrier can be a problem, but generally
| there's at least some degree of English knowledge among the
| younger population. If you happen to know Russian, it'll be even
| easier since most people understand it there. Also, with COVID,
| prepare for a LOT of people refusing to mask up or vaccinate.
| Better get your shots before going.
| mandeepj wrote:
| India (City - Mohali) is also doable. For Rs. 5k (~$70), you can
| easily rent a room; that takes out the biggest expense part. For
| everything else, it's up to you, how much you want to stretch
| out.
|
| P.S. - I grew up in that city, before moving out at 26. I still
| visit though - 1-2 times a year.
| topicseed wrote:
| Vietnam... Ho Chi Minh mainly, as it has great internet (except
| the couple of "shark attacks on submarine cables" each year).
| aix1 wrote:
| > "shark attacks on submarine cables"
|
| I thought this was a euphemism for something but, no, an actual
| thing:
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissacristinamarquez/2020/07/...
|
| Who'd have thought...
| topicseed wrote:
| Nope, very real! You're working in your coworking space in
| HCMC, then all of a sudden all internet stops, friends miles
| away too.
|
| In the US/UK, one would mostly bet on Cloudflare, Akamai,
| AWS, GCP outages... There, it's either sharks, or some locals
| think it's an enemy country that's close by that's doing
| sabotage.
| LylyChantylly wrote:
| Connaissez-vous un pays ou la temperature est constante
| annuellement a 26 degres celsius ?
| JCharante wrote:
| I would suggest Vietnam but I don't know anybody there with
| gigabit internet. If you consider best case 100mbps good then
| here's my pitch
|
| Move to a big city in Vietnam. Pay less than $400 for a 1 bedroom
| serviced apartment (they clean it ~3 times per week, usually they
| do your laundry). You can get vegan food pretty easily, it's hot
| in the summer but you can just stay indoors with AC or go to
| businesses with AC. Tons of mall and theathers. Movie tickets are
| $2-$4, double that for soda + popcorn. A cheap meal will be $2,
| even less if you have a light lunch (think banh mi) for $1. I'd
| usually spent $5 per meal or more just to eat foreign food after
| getting homesick. You can live in a trendier part of town by
| paying slightly more and be within walking distance of trendy
| western cafes/restaurants. You can take a motorbike taxi (pretty
| comfy outside of rush hour) for $5 all the way across town (20km)
| and a lot less if it's a shorter distance. During rush hour I
| like to take a car and that'll be $10 for a 9km trip usually.
|
| Plane tickets to other cities will be $40 one-way for
| vacation/travel purposes. Cheaper hotels $20/night and visiting
| beautiful beaches is very accessible. Travel to nearby countries
| (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, China) for around $200 in
| airfare. It's a great staging ground for the area.
|
| You seem American, so you can get a 1 year tourist visa (just
| need to get out of the country every 3 months, use it to visit
| another country for a few days) without any additional documents
| (no financial documents, etc).
| huachimingo wrote:
| In Latin America you can try Chile, we are doing OK with the
| pandemic compared to other countries, we are in opening phase
| now, housing can be not that cheap but you may try sharing an
| apartment/room/house.
|
| The south can be pretty nice and chill compared to the capital
| (see Canada vs US), but you have less services the more you are
| in rural areas. Dunno how the prices are there, though. Capital's
| downtown can be very calm compared to the hell of Santiago's (too
| much peasants on the road!), but in Santiago you have museums and
| All-the-nice-stuff(tm) like architecture and European-like roads,
| metro to everywhere,etc. It can feel like living in another
| country sometimes, but some things costs more.
|
| Same with Valparaiso or Vina, doesnt look that good but at least
| you have beaches and a lot of services.
|
| Beware our spanish dialect, we use lots of loanwords and
| nonstandard stuff sometimes...
| delaaxe wrote:
| Georgia (the country) is a good option.
|
| This video has other interesting alternatives:
| https://youtu.be/9aY8_DISMJ0
| piyushpr134 wrote:
| If you are a developer, you can move to Bangalore. You can get a
| new job in a heartbeat. Salaries here for a senior dev can range
| between $60K to $120K. Living expenses depends on where you live
| and what you do. You can easily live here in $1K. A decent 2/3bhk
| (2/3 bedrooms, hall and kitchen) with all furnishing in a nice
| area would cost $400-500 along with maintenance.
|
| Rest is super cheap. $20 for really fast internet. $5 for all you
| eat 4g phone connection. Netflix here is also very cheap at $10.
| $200 for groceries would fetch all kinds of good fresh veggies.
| $150 for a maid to clean, wash and cook etc. Rest you can use up
| on ordering food (roughly $5-10 per meal)...huge number of eating
| out and ordering in options. Delivery apps are everywhere so no
| need to go out. Uber is there for going around. Medical is really
| cheap compared to USA. You can get really good insurance policy
| for say $300 per annum which will cover everything and then some.
| Weather of Bangalore is really nice. Never too hot
| gilney wrote:
| What about working visa?
| bserge wrote:
| Romania, some major city that's not the capital. The outskirts of
| Cluj are perfect, maybe Sibiu or Brasov.
|
| Access to all sorts of nature and activities, affordable housing
| (big apartments, could even find a nice detached house for less
| than $500), great food from around Europe, great selection of
| restaurants/fast food, easy access to the rest of Europe and the
| world, lovely people who will speak English enthusiastically
| (maybe not that well though) and of course great Internet for
| very cheap.
|
| $1000/mo without paying local taxes is enough for all of the
| above.
|
| In the cities, crime is very low if you're worried (the criminals
| moved west lol), bureaucracy is on par with Germany (OK that
| means it's shit), corruption is very low. Whole damn country is a
| hidden jewel of Europe. Just maybe not that affordable to locals
| heh.
| pedrogpimenta wrote:
| I love your country, your people and your food. I've been
| several times and considered living there (ultimately, plans
| changed). By all means, promote it. But not with lies.
| Corruption is a big problem in Romania:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Romania
| contingencies wrote:
| I second this, Romania is really lovely. North side of the
| Carpathians, with proximity to forest.
| qnk wrote:
| I just came back from 2 months in Colombia with my wife and a 3
| year old. You can definitely live off 1k USD in an intermediate
| city (not Bogota) with a very high living standards compared to
| the average colombian.
|
| Medellin would be my recommendation, very safe, unbeatable
| weather, access to high speed internet, a trendy startup culture
| and decent level of English-speaking people, non-stop daily
| flights to major US cities and same time zone as the US.
| kilroy123 wrote:
| I don't know about _very_ safe but it certainly isn't how it
| used to be. Let's be real, you're in Latin America. It is safer
| than most Americans would think? Yes, but saying very safe is a
| bit of a stretch.
|
| Source: I lived in Medellin and spent years living in Latin
| America.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Lots of places in Pakistan and India you can do that on $1000 USD
| a month. If you don't do really well with hot weather you could
| pick a traditional hill station location (Murree, Darjeeling,
| Shimla, etc). They have lots of domestic tourism accommodation,
| I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to negotiate month-to-month
| terms with some of the property owners there.
| randycupertino wrote:
| How would Pakistan be for a long-term visit for a woman
| traveler? I've zoomed around some of the mountainous areas on
| google maps and as I'm interested in the hiking/mountaineering
| areas and one thing I've noticed is that there are ZERO photos
| of female travelers on any of the google images from those
| areas. Basically anywhere outside of Karachi I am not seeing
| pictures of women.
|
| Between that and this recent thread on reddit:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/pb5l2k/how_can_yo...
|
| I had been ranking it lower on my travel wish-list.
| [deleted]
| walrus01 wrote:
| Frankly would not recommend it for solo travel unless the
| woman in question is a really tough individual with
| experience in even more difficult developing-nation
| environments.
| [deleted]
| MrRiddle wrote:
| Why would anyone in their right mind go to Pakistan? Straight
| up dangerous for women, most places are dangerous for men as
| well.
|
| Sure they have nice mountains, but you have those in much safer
| places as well.
|
| When someone recommends Pakistan I feel like they're saying:
| "Sure, Hell is a bit hot but it has great view".
| postsantum wrote:
| Gilgit-Baltistan and Azad Kashmir seem to be pretty safe
| gremloni wrote:
| I've been to both Pakistan and India and would not recommend
| Pakistan. You can't get things you want in Pakistan, it's
| dangerous and to be honest besides the food there isn't
| anything to do.
| sq1020 wrote:
| Curious about Pakistan. Are you from there? Which cities
| besides Murree would you recommend?
| muhammadusman wrote:
| how's the internet in those areas?
| imstil3earning wrote:
| I get better/more reliable internet on my phone in India than
| I do in my condo in Canada some days
| pavlov wrote:
| You could live in rural Finland on $1k USD, although frugally.
|
| The upsides: lots of peace and quiet, excellent infrastructure,
| almost no crime, progressive Scandinavian values, almost
| everybody speaks English.
|
| The downsides: long dark winter, sparsely populated, quiet people
| don't actively seek interaction with newcomers.
|
| Probably not ideal unless you're serious about just huddling down
| to work.
| kuratkull wrote:
| 1000 USD = 850 EUR. You could get by in Estonia, though not very
| lavishly. An average quality rental apartment is ca. 400-600
| EUR/month in the capitol Tallinn. So you'd have some money left
| for food and stuff. There's free public transport. But the
| average net-wage is around 1200 EUR, so you'd have to sacrifice
| some things compared even to the average Estonian. But you'd win
| in having a small IT friendly city to live in.
| justinram11 wrote:
| A keyword that should pull up quite a bit of related information
| would be: "Digital Nomad" (though I'd think covid is still
| throwing a wrench into much of that).
|
| The most "stereotypical" answer is Thailand, which offers cheap
| internet, food, month-to-month accommodations, friendly to visa
| runners (hopping over the border for a day and coming back into
| country every X months to reset your visa), quite a bit to do,
| and is also pretty safe.
| giardini wrote:
| justinram11 says> _" The most "stereotypical" answer is
| Thailand,:_<
|
| But it's so bloody _hot_!
| newusertoday wrote:
| chiang mai, thailand, bali indonesia
| miohtama wrote:
| Don't forget the new darling Costa Rica
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28179018
|
| Though looks like $1000 might not cut it.
| paxys wrote:
| Rather than looking at entire countries as a whole you should
| consider the urban vs rural split. Major cities in Eastern Europe
| or Korea or even third world countries are still going to be a
| lot more expensive than, say, some random town 200 miles outside
| of San Francisco or New York. First decide what kind of lifestyle
| you are looking for.
| tpm wrote:
| Depends on what you count as major cities; the second biggest
| city in any EE country will be much cheaper than the capital.
| But in Eastern Europe you also get health insurance much
| cheaper than in the US.
| Lionga wrote:
| Not true for Romania, where Cluj is more expensive than
| Bucharest.
|
| Also not true in Germany where Munich is more expensive than
| Berlin.
|
| Probably not true in most countries.
| ptudan wrote:
| Is cluj really more expensive? Maybe for the average
| Romanian, but expat areas in Bucharest are the priciest in
| the country, last I checked.
|
| I'm half Romanian and have been considering doing what OP
| is doing for a while. Cluj was probably going to be my
| choice, in case I wanted to hire any students.
| tpm wrote:
| I don't count Germany into Eastern Europe; there are
| historical reasons why Berlin is cheaper than some western
| German cities. Certainly what I wrote is true for Czechia
| (Brno cheaper than Prague), Slovakia (Kosice cheaper than
| Bratislava), quite sure also for Hungary, probably Serbia,
| Bulgaria and Ukraine too.
| burntoutfire wrote:
| Poland is doable if you stay out of major cities. You can rent a
| studio for $300 (incl. all utilities). Food, if you cook, will
| cost you $200-$250 ($300-$400 if you don't cook and want to eat
| out only). Wired Internet and cell phone will be around $20.
| State-provided health insurance is about $120 per month (this is
| "socialized medicine", so it provides everything with no
| deducible, up to treating cancer etc.), but can possibly be gamed
| - there are loopholes that de facto allow you to pay insurance
| only once you need it (may be too hard to navigate for someone
| who's not a native speaker though). Btw the health insurance is
| "free" if you get any kind of job, even working couple hours a
| week.
|
| Also, Poland should be a great place to actually run your game
| studio company from, as the tax on "IT innovation" (should not be
| hard to include games in this category) is only 6% - everything
| after that ends up in your pocket (i.e. no further dividend tax
| etc is required).
|
| Assuming you won't be getting a car, public transit and
| Uber/taxis are affordable as well - a 5 km trip via Uber should
| perhaps be around $4.
|
| I suspect other countries in the region should have similar
| numbers. Healthcare system and tax incentives should definitely
| be the biggest differentiator.
| randycupertino wrote:
| I would also add that air pollution is something to consider
| regarding living in Poland long term:
|
| https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/11/25/poland-has-eus-worst-...
|
| https://www.sustainability-times.com/clean-cities/battling-t...
|
| Also, if OP enjoys smoking pot, that might be an issue as per
| family who lives there it will be a big change vs coming from
| California.
|
| Personally when traveling in Krakow and Warsaw I've found more
| racism against brown people lately vs 10 years ago... random
| cabbies and bartenders going on unprovoked rants against
| immigrants. Not sure if that's been one-off but that was
| surprising for me at least.
| wtk wrote:
| regarding that 6% tax for innovation in IT - be warned, our
| governing idiot party is about to introduce a bunch of new
| laws, including a de facto increase of that 19% to 28%.
| hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
| > should not be hard to include games in this category
|
| You better put aside the remaining 13% for 5 years, just in
| case the inevitable happens.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| As a Pole myself, I'd add two things: it is generally a lovely
| country, lots of beautiful countryside etc. Less "spectacular",
| more "cozy" etc. People are a bit uncertain of new things (eg
| foreigners in a new town) but generally warm and helpful
| eventually.
|
| That said, I'd you're not white and straight, small towns could
| be very unwelcoming, from people staring, to telling you to go,
| to physical violence. Rare but true.
| cloudedcordial wrote:
| Non-Pole here. Visited Poland in the past 10 years. Beautiful
| countryside for sure. Cities and roads were clean. Decent
| food.
|
| During my last visit, wireless phone service was super in the
| major cities...even better than Canada's.
|
| As a tourist, Poland was a pretty big bang on my money:
| Equivalent item from the west for 1/3 of the cost while
| enjoying modern amenities. But I can see non Polish speakers
| would have difficulties living there in the longer term.
| During my trips, I insisted on travelling with at least one
| native Polish speaker.
| coderintherye wrote:
| The locals did stare at us funny when we didn't put ketchup
| on our pizza, but then we stared back cause why would someone
| do such a thing.
| bruceb wrote:
| non pole here, knew a guy who wasn't white or European, not
| living in biggest cities, loved it there. sure its safer than
| many places.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| Well I love it, and many places and people will give non-
| white non-straight people no issues.
|
| But hand on heart can I say to someone outside that narrow
| blueprint it's definitely fine? Nope.
| lappet wrote:
| Is that true even for visiting? I am Indian and have
| wanted to visit Poland and the region for quite a while.
| I did find rural Germany quite ok except communication.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| You'll be fine for sure in touristy areas and big city
| centres.
|
| There are Indian people living and working in Poland, so
| it can't be too bad. Right wing media say nothing of
| racist attacks. Left wing media describe them all the
| time. There are vocal nationalists, most of whom never go
| past their grumblings.
|
| I raise it as I'd be somewhat concerned sending a non-
| white or job-straight friend into rural Poland.
|
| If you look at UK Foreign Office travel advice, the LGBT
| intolerance warrants a mention, but no other warning:
| https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/poland/local-
| laws-a... . I guess attitudes to non-white people could
| get a similar treatment.
| fhood wrote:
| Haven't been, so I wonder how it compares with rural US,
| where, at least in some of the places I've been, people
| are quite intolerant in abstract, but almost universally
| friendly in person.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| I think if people get to know you, they are indeed
| positively surprised that "despite" being foreign etc
| you're actually nice etc. That wouldn't be my concern so
| much.
|
| It would rather be the odd skinhead on the bus or in the
| street. The current government is also quietly accepting
| such behaviours, as it is their voter base, so the few
| "bad apples" feel they can act with impunity.
|
| I don't want to overplay it, it's not Nazi Germany, but
| for sure something to consider. Nice place one way or the
| other.
| peakaboo wrote:
| I find myself thinking the last part sounds great, well aware
| of how unacceptable that opinion is today.
|
| Its interesting how people think it makes you an evil person
| to want a more homogenous society instead of the
| multicultural one.
| makeworld wrote:
| >very unwelcoming, physical violence
|
| >"I think that sounds great!"
|
| >"Oh no why do people think I'm an evil person"
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| It should be said that you will need to make some effort to
| learn the local language.
|
| People will know enough English for you to get by, but it will
| feel very isolating. Learning just a little bit of Polish will
| make a world of difference, especially if you need to talk with
| a plumber or doctor (they're very unlikely to know much
| English).
| mathgenius wrote:
| I'm an Australian in Krakow & I'd recommend it. Plenty of
| people understand English, and it's a small enough city that
| the vibe is fairly relaxed.
|
| Places like this will help with a visa for a more extended stay
| so you can run your "startup":
|
| https://twojstartup.pl/
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Is car ownership pretty affordable overall? (Insurance, fees,
| etc)
| burntoutfire wrote:
| Yes, very affordable. Yearly mandatory insurance, without any
| discounts for crash-free driving (as I doubt they'd honor
| insurance histories from foreign countries), is perhaps about
| $300. Mandatory yearly checkups are $30. Cars themselves are
| a bit pricier than in US - mostly due to VAT being higher
| than US's sales tax I guess. But, maintenance is way cheaper
| - there's plenty of cheap and skilled mechanics who will
| improvise fixes using scavenged second-hard parts (which they
| themselves will provide). Rebuilding an engine will cost you
| perhaps under $400 in labor, while I suspect it's in
| thousands of dollars in US.
|
| Gas is currently $5.5 per gallon. Most people drive cars with
| low fuel consumption, so they're easy to get on second-hand
| market. Also, if one is particularly stingy about fuel costs,
| it's popular to own cars fueled by LPG. LPG is currently $2.5
| per gallon.
| soared wrote:
| Visit Poland before making a decision. As an American their
| social culture can come off as very cold and rude.
| pzduniak wrote:
| That 6% tax is... complicated. Bug fixes are not innovation
| IIRC - I just end up paying 19%, which isn't that much anyways.
| tomwojcik wrote:
| Exactly, its almost impossible to use the R&D tax relief.
| Also, starting with 2021, we will pay more than 19% in taxes
| but the gov cant make up their mind on the changes so we dont
| know the details yet.
| [deleted]
| rmason wrote:
| Detroit - In 2021 30.6% of the city's population lives below the
| US federal poverty level. For a single person that's $16,000 a
| year.
|
| Pros - Large spirited startup community
|
| Negatives - High levels of crime. Snow and cold weather in the
| winter months.
| pelasaco wrote:
| If you want to have a great experience, I would suggest South of
| Brazil (something like country from Rio Grande do Sul or Santa
| Catarina), Buenos Aires in Argentina, or my favorite spot
| Montevideo, Uruguay. In the 3 options, you can live well with 1k
| USD and have one of the best times of your life, without a super
| huge cultural shock. Have fun!
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| Isn't Argentina currently under a strict lockdown?
| pelasaco wrote:
| I fail to find in the question, the time period when the user
| is planning to do it. I wasn't assuming he is planning to do
| it literally right now.
| dhoe wrote:
| I currently live in Montevideo and it's surprisingly expensive.
| Complaining about the prices is very very common. That said,
| it's very nice and safe with great quality of life overall. It
| does get a bit boring over time.
| nano-erud wrote:
| I live in Uruguay, it's not an alternative, it is very
| expensive. Good quality of life, but you don't live well on
| that budget. You need up to 2k a month (one person) to live
| well. Brazil and Argentina are very insecure and economically
| unstable.
| mlcruz wrote:
| South of Brazil is alright, but as someone who lives in Porto
| Alegre it is not really 'safe'.
|
| By far the best place to live in Brasil is Sao paulo (state)
| countryside. Very safe cities, close to urban centers, not
| expensive at all. Santos is also pretty nice but 1k might fall
| short.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_S%C3...
| fernandopj wrote:
| +1 about South of Brazil. USD 1k with BRL as it is, it's more
| than enough to get an entire middle-class apartment for
| yourself and pay for all utilities in any neighborhood. (I'd
| not recommend largest southeast cities because you could feel
| "back" in L.A. traffic).
|
| As I've experienced trying to rent a place in SF, in Brazil
| even largest cities are _waaay_ easier. You'd have to talk
| directly to an owner (since it would be difficult for you to
| prove income) but it wouldn't be a problem finding them and
| renting for less than a year.
|
| Language will not be a problem, there's a startup scene if you
| feel like talking shop, and plenty of places to see and visit.
| You'd have all the infrastructure to stay for a long time.
| nishnik wrote:
| You can live in almost any city in India for less than 1k USD per
| month. In Bangalore (Tier-1 City), rent for a 1-bed-hall-kitchen
| apartment will be around 200 USD. Add 10 USD per month for high
| speed internet. Another 100 USD per month for a dedicated maid
| and cook. Add 200 USD for all kind of grocery. That will be
| around 500 USD per month of living expenses.
|
| You can live in Varkala/Goa (if you love beaches) and
| Dharmshala/Shimla (if you love mountains) for even less.
| kzisme wrote:
| Sort of a side tangent, but what is the best way to go about
| choosing a place (even in the US) to live? Aside from budget ofc.
| system2 wrote:
| I would say it comes down to personal preference. I love
| nature, I would love to live near mountains with relatively
| safe animals around. Some might love being near the water, and
| some in city environment. To live in the U.S. for $1000
| somebody really needs to stick to strict living because
| starbucks cost the same everywhere etc.
| nonameiguess wrote:
| Lowest average rent by state in the US is West Virginia at $628.
| That means some parts of West Virginia must be much cheaper than
| that. $400 for food and utilities seems easily doable, but
| probably not healthcare, so you're likely going to have to be
| uninsured and pray you don't get sick or injured for 6 months.
| I'm guessing you'd sage on moving and travel expenses by staying
| in the US, but maybe not enough compared to some truly cheap
| countries. I had a good friend in college from Kazakhstan and her
| family had a 20 bedroom mansion there appraised at the equivalent
| of about $40,000 USD.
| 8792588987 wrote:
| I'm in Morgantown, West Virginia. A university city (cities
| don't get very large in West Virginia, the state only has 1.8
| million people; it has seen zero population expansion for 90
| years).
|
| Sold my house not long ago, moved to Morgantown, and I'm
| renting now. My rent for around 900 sq ft is sub $700. Electric
| + water + Comcast is a combined $100, that covers all of my
| utilities. I'm under $800 for rent + utilities and under $1,000
| for rent + utilities + food.
|
| Crime is low, as is the murder rate; I don't think there has
| been a murder here in roughly five years. The Internet is great
| (Comcast goes up to 1.2gbps here for $80/month, but I don't
| have a use for that). There's a decent bus system that goes to
| most parts of the city and is cheap to use. The area, and
| really the state in general, is overwhelmingly green; drive a
| short distance in any direction and you've escaped
| civilization. There's skiing an hour away in the Winter, and a
| few popular lakes within that distance as well. Oddly housing
| prices are higher than they should be for the income levels of
| the region, and it has been that way for a long time, so that's
| a downside (but this is relatively speaking, as you can buy a
| nice house here for under $400k; for anyone working in tech
| remote it's not expensive). It is a boring, docile, quiet
| region, and that's not everyone's cup of tea; the restaurants
| are lacking, and there's no consequential nightlife; the
| nearest relevant city, Pittsburgh, is 80 minutes away.
|
| In the US, university cities - which the US has a lot of - are
| often the hidden gems of combining safe (low crime, low murder
| rate) + a relatively low cost of living.
| koilke wrote:
| Tokyo, you can find a decent apartment for around $600(cheaper
| alternatives exist) in the centre. Then maybe around $100 for
| utilities and the rest for food and entertainment(considering
| that you cook on your own).
|
| For housing market: https://www.homes.co.jp/chintai/tokyo/map/
| fauk77 wrote:
| spain morocco
| abdelhamidem wrote:
| yep, morocco is a pretty good deal. Close to europe, most
| people speak english and/or french and you can easily live off
| 10k dirhams per month (1k usd)
|
| https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?cou...
| abbub wrote:
| I loved loved LOVED our three week stay in Morocco in 2019, and
| their cellular infrastructure was pretty decent (like,
| traveling all over we were never without cell service and at
| least some level of internet), but the internet in the places
| we stayed was pretty terrible across the board. Having said
| that, the food was so amazing that I'd be tempted to deal with
| the slow internet. :/
| muzani wrote:
| Malaysia is very doable as a single person. Everyone speaks
| English, lots of good food. Coliving spaces were quite popular
| before the pandemic, where some entrepreneurs would rent an
| apartment and work together, but I don't know where you'd meet
| people like that.
|
| Foreign visas are also quite loose. You could get an
| entrepreneurship visa (see the MDEC site). There's a rapidly
| growing games and animation industry too, so you might be able to
| find people you'd like to work with.
| 41209 wrote:
| How's safety.
|
| As far as I can tell America is more dangerous than most other
| places.
| fhood wrote:
| Yeah especially in a city for 1k a month, although if you
| pick the right type of rural crime is almost nonexistent.
| muzani wrote:
| It's quite good. Violent crime is low, very unlikely to get
| kidnapped or stabbed. Robberies and mugging happens but I
| don't think it's much worse than average.
|
| Healthcare is up to West European standards and is part of
| the $1000/month. Coronavirus deaths per pop is at #100th rank
| or so. The current wave is very bad, with daily cases at
| about 6th globally, but KL area is about 80% adults fully
| vaccinated now.
|
| Roads are dangerous if you're driving. Corruption is lowish
| by Asian standards, high by Western standards. It's at a
| level where you can choose to bribe the nice policeman or
| report him, but you're unlikely to be arrested on skin color.
| We don't have many drug lords; organized criminals run
| government [1] or take on gov contracts.
|
| Would you like statistics instead of anecdotes? A lot don't
| exist past 2005 or so, and be aware that many official stats
| abuse statistics [2]. I'm sure you can search the stats
| yourself, I'm just here to provide a view.
|
| [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/najib-razak-former-
| malaysian-pr...
|
| [2] https://twitter.com/dghisham/status/1427814223036370954
| michaelmrose wrote:
| I was sure you were wrong. You are absolutely correct.
|
| https://www.nationmaster.com/country-
| info/compare/Malaysia/U...
| chadcmulligan wrote:
| If you're happy in a share house, you could live on that in Aus,
| albeit frugally. Though if you wanted to live outside the cities
| you could get rent down to $600AUD, and leave you $800AUD to live
| on, $200 a week for everything else is stacks.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| Mexico is a great option. It's extremely cheap, has great food,
| the language isn't too hard to learn, and it's a lot safer than
| people think, as long as you stay in specific areas.
| erehweb wrote:
| which areas?
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| I'm not an expert on all of the safe areas but the richer
| areas of Mexico City and Oaxaca are certainly safe.
| kjaftaedi wrote:
| Just FYI you will only be able to stay for 3 months in most
| places on a tourist visa.
|
| Most places do offer 6 month visas for artists and for things
| like what you are doing, but you should try and sort out this
| plan before you arrive at your destination, because once there
| you may find it harder to turn your tourist visa into something
| else.
|
| Either that or you will have to travel to multiple places that do
| not share the same travel restrictions.
| achairapart wrote:
| I remember the trick was to fly to another place and re-enter
| just a few days later to get another 3 month visa. Doesn't work
| anymore?
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| Depends on the country. Many weren't keeping digital records
| but most now are.
| acjacobson wrote:
| Depends on the country. It won't work in the Schengen because
| the visa waiver is 90 days within a 180 day stretch.
| therufa wrote:
| Not like anybody is checking this, I'm speaking from e
| experience. I had several coworkers over the years who used
| to live for much longer in Schengen countries without
| registration. In Austria this works moderately well so does
| it in Hungary, but of course it has some drawbacks too.
| Usually in countries where people tend to curb laws to
| their liking as well as "forget" to pay taxes (this is the
| case for Hungary) more often than not, this visa situation
| not a big deal
| istorical wrote:
| Yes, yes they are.
| atatatat wrote:
| Enforcement may be discretionary in some regions, but
| like all arrangements like this, don't stake your life on
| such.
| view wrote:
| Some places started offering remote work visas:
|
| https://expertvagabond.com/digital-nomad-work-visas/
| pythonbase wrote:
| You can live in Pakistan. 1 USD equals to 168PKR at the moment
| and $1K per month would get you a good life in the metropolis of
| Karachi which has good internet and other amenities.
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