[HN Gopher] Show HN: WebCrate - an open-source social bookmarkin...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: WebCrate - an open-source social bookmarking tool
        
       Author : betahuhn
       Score  : 93 points
       Date   : 2021-08-25 13:15 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (webcrate.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (webcrate.app)
        
       | fouc wrote:
       | Webcrate is a great name, however the "crate" term strongly
       | implies archival in this context to me. So as a user, I would
       | actually assume that it takes an archive/snapshot of every
       | website that I bookmark. The website doesn't seem to indicate it
       | can do this?
        
         | spinax wrote:
         | For me, "crate" is now associated with anything rust (and I'm
         | neither a rust person or a programmer) - if I see crate in
         | relation to tech, "it has something to do with rust."
        
           | sbarre wrote:
           | Interesting, I'll forever associate crates with vinyl records
           | and DJing.. and I _am_ a programmer, and not a DJ..
           | 
           | I guess context matters! ;-)
        
             | spinax wrote:
             | I'm with you! It's possible that at one time I thought as
             | you (also being a music fan), but in the past 5 (?) years
             | you can't trip but to find someone talking about rust in
             | the tech spaces. Not only context, but era (point in time?)
             | as well.
        
             | betahuhn wrote:
             | Funny how it means completely different things to different
             | people. As a 18 year old I would never think of vinyl
             | records when hearing "crates" :D
        
         | riffic wrote:
         | lol, this wouldn't be an HN thread without people bikeshedding
         | over an app's name, would it?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | betahuhn wrote:
         | Nope, not at this time. You can only store the URL itself in a
         | "crate".
         | 
         | Glad you like the name though!
        
       | looperhacks wrote:
       | Is there any supported way to run it on a private server?
        
         | betahuhn wrote:
         | Not out of the box no. You could fork and modify it, but that
         | would take a lot of work.
         | 
         | Can't recommend Deta Space enough though, it is kind of like
         | self-hosting it without managing an actual server!
        
           | mynameismon wrote:
           | Is there a pricing plan for it? I can't seem to find one, and
           | I prefer knowing what am I signing up for upfront.
        
             | betahuhn wrote:
             | Space (and WebCrate) are currently free!
             | 
             | Even if they charge something for it in the future, the
             | version of WebCrate you install today will always be free.
             | 
             | On Deta Space updates are also opt-in, you choose when and
             | if you want to update WebCrate.
        
               | mynameismon wrote:
               | Thanks!
        
               | vorpalhex wrote:
               | How is the service currently being funded?
        
               | betahuhn wrote:
               | WebCrate is free since I as a dev don't run any servers
               | and the data/compute lives with the users. I don't have
               | any operational costs essentially.
               | 
               | Deta Space is just getting started -- their plan is to
               | offer payments and take a percentage for paid apps.
        
           | chrismorgan wrote:
           | See, I wouldn't call it self-hosted if you can't actually...
           | self-host it. Someone else's server isn't mine.
        
             | riffic wrote:
             | come on, let's be a bit more inclusive about the term
             | "self-hosting".
             | 
             | For instance, I run a few apps in Linode. I manage the
             | virtual servers, and consider myself to be a self-hoster of
             | these webapps (Nextcloud, Drupal, PixelFed, et cetera)
             | 
             | These aren't necessarily _my servers_ but at some level,
             | they are.
        
               | ocdtrekkie wrote:
               | I would say your setup appears drastically more yours
               | than Deta, however, which appears to only host apps on
               | their own infrastructure. The software you're using is
               | installed where you chose to put it, and can be installed
               | in your home if you choose.
        
               | Saris wrote:
               | The difference is you know what you set up, and could
               | move it to another server if needed.
               | 
               | This detaspace thing is like saying that Amazon S3 is
               | self hosted because you can upload your own files to it.
        
               | atoav wrote:
               | If you can install it on _any_ recent Linux machine it is
               | self-hostable. If you can 't it is not.
        
             | betahuhn wrote:
             | I totally get your point! Instead of self-hosting, you
             | could call it a personal cloud.
        
               | Krasnol wrote:
               | You are not really helping yourself if you desperately
               | attempt changing established words in a way that it would
               | fit your business. You just alienate people and give
               | yourself a bad reputation people will remember you by.
        
               | vorpalhex wrote:
               | My personal cloud is the rack sitting next to me, not
               | someone elses box that other people are also hosted on.
        
           | jrm4 wrote:
           | Nothing personal, but we're getting entirely too fast and
           | loose with definitions here.
           | 
           | Calling this "self-hosted" is _flat out false._ Cut it out.
        
           | Saris wrote:
           | It's not at all like self hosting it, sounds like it's just
           | running on some servers located somewhere, and is completely
           | unknown to the user.
           | 
           | I'm also surprised it's that difficult to convert to self
           | hosting, it makes me think that detaspace has a very
           | convoluted system for running things.
        
             | betahuhn wrote:
             | WebCrate uses services provided by Deta (like Deta Base for
             | the database, Deta Auth for authentication) internally and
             | thus can't be made available to run on any server without a
             | rewrite of the backend.
             | 
             | Those services made it possible for me to build WebCrate in
             | a short time and took a lot of work off my shoulders.
        
           | CodeBrad wrote:
           | I know not directly related to WebCrate, but it looks like
           | the signup for DetaSpace is broken, so I am unable to try
           | WebCrate.
           | 
           | When I try to sign up for DetaSpace, I get the following
           | message:
           | 
           | > Exceeded daily email limit for the operation or the
           | account. If a higher limit is required, please configure your
           | user pool to use your own Amazon SES configuration for
           | sending email.
        
       | ocdtrekkie wrote:
       | Deta Space appears to be very lacking in the product details
       | department. I see a comment saying you can't self-host it, so it
       | has to be on Deta's cloud, or can you even bring your own cloud
       | provider?
       | 
       | Is there any technical/security guarantee's to Deta's privacy
       | claims? For one, a casual reading of their privacy page suggests
       | they integrate a half dozen analytics (aka monitoring) tools
       | including Google Analytics.
        
         | abdelhai wrote:
         | Hi, CEO of Deta here. On Deta Space, self-hosting means that
         | once the app is installed in your own personal cloud, you have
         | full ownership of the instance and it's data. Not the
         | developer.
         | 
         | We use GA in our dashboard but the apps themselves do not
         | contain tracking. We aim to remove all tracking in the future.
         | GA only collects web pages visits (anonymously).
        
           | ocdtrekkie wrote:
           | I would suggest you avoid redefining what self-hosting means.
           | ;)
           | 
           | Are there any technical limitations to prevent Deta (or
           | someone who compromises Deta) from accessing a user's data?
           | 
           | With regards to different apps installed within a user's
           | personal cloud, is there any isolation that ensures a
           | compromise with one app can't compromise data in other apps
           | the user installs?
        
           | ohyeshedid wrote:
           | What is the business relationship between you and the OP?
           | 
           | You're both trying to redefine what everyone understands as
           | self-hosting, in some seemingly direct ways.
        
           | Saris wrote:
           | What is a "personal cloud" in this context?
           | 
           | I can't see how I could have full ownership of it since I
           | didn't set it up and have no idea how it works. It comes
           | across as very 'black box' and hidden behind the scenes.
           | 
           | Either way it's not self-hosted unless I'm the one doing the
           | full setup from the start.
        
         | riffic wrote:
         | from the looks of it, I assume Deta is some sort of PaaS, and
         | aims to be a hybrid between Heroku and Glitch. It's an
         | interesting space to be in, but the product's maturity leaves a
         | lot to be desired.
         | 
         | If you have concerns you should probably just be using Heroku
         | or your own homegrown solution in IaaS/Bare Metal.
        
           | abdelhai wrote:
           | Deta Space is still in developer alpha. We have a long way to
           | go!
           | 
           | Deta Cloud (deta.sh) is a PaaS like Heroku. Deta Space
           | (deta.space) on the other hand is something new we call the
           | "personal cloud". We will announce more soon.
        
           | ocdtrekkie wrote:
           | Well, the interesting thing is the developer experience seems
           | to be very much like Sandstorm.io: "Publishing on Space
           | allowed me to act like I was building this app for one
           | person; I didn't have to worry about authentication"
           | 
           | But it doesn't seem to provide any real description of
           | technical justifications to claim Deta provides "privacy".
        
             | abdelhai wrote:
             | We give every app instance it's own server (VM) and
             | database. It is completely isolated from all other
             | instances of the same app. The developer has no access to
             | your app instances or their data. Take a look at our sister
             | product for the technical details "Deta Cloud" (deta.sh)
             | 
             | We don't have much information on Space as we're still in
             | the alpha stage.
        
       | Saris wrote:
       | This looks great, but there's no chance I'm going to use it on
       | this detaspace service, since their website doesn't even explain
       | what it does.
        
       | hammyhavoc wrote:
       | Give me Docker or give me death.
        
       | pickledish wrote:
       | > Deta Space made it really easy for me as dev to build something
       | like WebCrate quickly and it's also awesome for users. The app
       | keeps running even if I disappear and hosting, auth etc. is all
       | handled for me
       | 
       | Ah yeah, love the concept, I had similar goals in mind when
       | making Cardi (although I wasn't aware of many options at the time
       | for putting data in control of the user -- I ended up just having
       | people log in with AWS access keys and it stores data in
       | DynamoDB, which is weird but has actually been working pretty
       | well so far).
       | 
       | https://github.com/pickledish/cardi
       | 
       | Deta seems really interesting, looking forward to seeing where it
       | goes from here! Would love more/better options in this space.
        
       | selftemp wrote:
       | As someone with over 2000+ bookmarks organized under 30+ folders
       | on Google bookmarks, I've been looking for a self-hosted
       | bookmarking tool with a nice UI that can run on my home server
       | and is easily available across all platforms and devices for a
       | while.
       | 
       | This looks like a great start but I wouldn't call it self-hosted
       | though, I'm more than happy to pay a nominal one time fee for a
       | docker deployable image version of this.
        
         | betahuhn wrote:
         | Thanks for the feedback! I can now see why not everyone has the
         | same understanding of "self-hosted", which is totally okay!
         | 
         | I am not planning on providing a version of WebCrate which can
         | be run on any server any time soon. WebCrate uses services
         | provided by Deta (like Deta Base for the database) internally
         | and thus can't be moved to a docker image without a rewrite of
         | the backend.
         | 
         | I hope you understand and may consider giving Deta
         | Space/WebCrate a try in the future!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | DerekBickerton wrote:
       | I use Pinboard for a cloud-based solution to bookmarking, and I
       | export my Pinboard bookmark collection to an on-premises local PC
       | location every 4 months or so, in-case Pinboard's servers are
       | somehow destroyed (which is unlikely, but still possible).
       | 
       | All my browser bookmarks accumulate to staggering volumes after
       | each year, and then I simply prune the cruft, or low-quality
       | bookmarks and curate a list of all the best ones, all using
       | Firefox's bookmark library, which is an underestimated tool and
       | enormously useful for organizing bookmarks.
       | 
       | I typically use Firefox's bookmarks export feature that generates
       | a HTML file that I can then browse at my leisure at any time and
       | create a sort of 'master list' of bookmarks that I can then
       | backup in Pinboard, or other cloud services to refer back to at
       | any time.
        
       | res0nat0r wrote:
       | I've been burned at least 3-4x now by bookmark sites shutting
       | down, I just stick with Buku now: https://github.com/jarun/buku
       | 
       | Local, text/cli based, sqlite.
        
         | cyberge99 wrote:
         | Agreed. I use buku and bukuserver because I can view bookmarks
         | on my terminal/cli in addition to the browser page.
         | 
         | Bookmark management is in a bad state of affairs. If I'm on my
         | phone or misc. browser, I use Pocket. I then use 'puku' to sync
         | my Pocket urls into buku (with tags).
         | 
         | I use bukubrow for Firefox as an extension.
         | 
         | I wish there was a better way, but for now it works.
         | 
         | If anyone can write an iPhone/Android app, I'd be open to
         | collaborate on project that could optimize bookmark management.
         | 
         | A great product would be: browser independent extensions, cli
         | tool, db backend, os independent, self-hosted (with option for
         | cloud) and no requirement for a web interface.
         | 
         | Just my .02 cents.
        
           | tconfrey wrote:
           | @cyberge99 check out BrainTool[1]. Its a Chromium extension
           | that allows you to capture bookmarks and notes into a
           | hierarchical topic tree thats stored in an org-mode syntax
           | plain text file editable w emacs or any org editor (incl
           | Orgzly on Android). It's not browser dependent for capture
           | and navigation (not sure how it could be) but otherwise
           | checks your boxes.
           | 
           | [1] https://braintool.org/2021/08/25/Managing-your-Browser-
           | with-...
        
       | hk1337 wrote:
       | Can this import .webloc and .url files? If there's something I
       | want to keep, I will normally just drag the url over to my
       | desktop when then saves it as one of those files. I don't have a
       | toolbar showing in my browser and trying to hunt for the link or
       | button to save it is more work than just dragging the url to the
       | desktop.
        
         | betahuhn wrote:
         | Not at moment no. You can only add links via the browser
         | extensions and the dashboard.
         | 
         | The extension supports an omnibox though so you can just type
         | "wc" in your address bar, press tab and everything after that
         | will be added as a URL to your WebCrate instance.
        
       | wazoox wrote:
       | First, it's not self-hosted if it's not running on my computer
       | (or eventually my private cloud).
       | 
       | Second it seems like it doesn't snapshot the web pages? That's
       | the killer feature that made me use Zotero, though it's big, ugly
       | and clunky. I was tired of getting broken links or free articles
       | that later required payment to be read again. I was quite happy
       | with Instapaper, but annoyed by the not "self-hosted" part.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | Check out ArchiveBox. Not as much of a bookmark manager but
         | great for archiving pages.
        
         | gildas wrote:
         | SingleFile [1] has some basic options allowing you to archive
         | pages you add in your bookmarks.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFile
        
           | wazoox wrote:
           | Good job :)
        
       | larrywright wrote:
       | Neat product! I wanted to point out a couple of typos on the
       | landing page:
       | 
       | "Subscribe directly to another users WebCrate instace"
       | 
       | "Stays running even if the we disappear."
       | 
       | You might want to use a tool like Grammarly to help tighten up
       | the marketing copy (or just pay a copywriter - you can probably
       | even find someone at your university to do it for cheap). Not a
       | criticism, just a suggestion.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | I would strongly discourage use of Grammarly: It's essentially
         | a keylogger which uploads everything you type to their cloud
         | service, and there is really no guarantee of privacy or ability
         | to delete that data.
        
           | larrywright wrote:
           | I have the same concerns (and don't use it for private
           | writing) but I figured for public web copy it's not a huge
           | deal. Also, you can (or at least could) install their desktop
           | app which would require you to do writing in it or copy/paste
           | it in to get their suggestions. That way only the content you
           | want to send to them goes, rather than everything.
        
             | betahuhn wrote:
             | You are right, for text that will be public it isn't too
             | bad.
             | 
             | Good tip with the Desktop app, but that doesn't seem like
             | an ideal solution either.
             | 
             | Keeping my fingers away from Grammerly all together sounds
             | like the best option IMO!
        
           | betahuhn wrote:
           | Good to know, thanks! I'm currently using Microsoft's Editor
           | extension.
           | 
           | Do you have any good alternatives?
        
         | betahuhn wrote:
         | Whoops! Thanks so much for pointing them out!
         | 
         | Thought I fixed all the typos, but some always get through!
         | Grammarly might be a good solution, thanks :D
        
           | riffic wrote:
           | There's also a couple typos here:
           | 
           | > Descentralized
           | 
           | > Subscribe directly to another users WebCrate instace
           | 
           | btw, how have you implemented interoperability?
        
             | betahuhn wrote:
             | Thanks, fixed!
             | 
             | Between WebCrate instances? Thanks to Deta Space each
             | instance has its own domain so it is reachable directly
             | without a gateway or central server. The instance then
             | exposes a public API which another instance and the client
             | can access to get the required data.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | The word 'self-hosted' is like 'open source' in that it leads to
       | tons of distracting objections when people disagree about what it
       | ought to mean.
       | 
       | Since that's been happening a lot in this thread, the easiest
       | thing is to take the term out of the title, and thus (hopefully)
       | the issue off the table. Let's stick to discussing the project
       | now!
        
         | betahuhn wrote:
         | Thanks, didn't expect so much backlash about the term!
        
           | ohyeshedid wrote:
           | That's because self-hosted implies choice of where it's run;
           | you don't offer that.
        
       | betahuhn wrote:
       | Hey fellow internet users! I always got frustrated with existing
       | bookmarking tools as they were either too clunky to use or had
       | way too many features I didn't need. Until I decided to just
       | build my own!
       | 
       | WebCrate allows you to organize links, articles and more from
       | around the web into collections called crates. You can share the
       | crates with anyone and since each user gets their own instance of
       | WebCrate in their own 'personal cloud' thanks to Deta Space, you
       | can subscribe to other users crates and view their links right
       | from your dashboard.
       | 
       | Deta Space made it really easy for me as dev to build something
       | like WebCrate quickly and it's also awesome for users. The app
       | keeps running even if I disappear and hosting, auth etc. is all
       | handled for me.
       | 
       | For the nerds, I built WebCrate with Nuxt and ExpressJS and it
       | uses Deta included NoSQL database.
       | 
       | You can learn more about WebCrate at http://webcrate.app or
       | install it directly on Deta Space
       | (https://deta.space/discovery/webcrate)! Let me know what you
       | think (WebCrate is OSS, so you can also contribute) and I hope
       | you find it useful!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-08-25 23:02 UTC)