[HN Gopher] Charlie Watts has died
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       Charlie Watts has died
        
       Author : coloneltcb
       Score  : 298 points
       Date   : 2021-08-24 16:37 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | irrational wrote:
       | How is this appropriate for Hacker News?
        
         | batch12 wrote:
         | How is it not?
        
         | wombatmobile wrote:
         | > How is this appropriate for Hacker News?
         | 
         | The energy from Charlie Watts' drum sticks transmuted into more
         | lines of code than you will ever be able to count.
        
         | EL_Loco wrote:
         | Stop this "why is this relevant for HN". If it's not, it'll
         | leave the front page soon.
        
         | Pet_Ant wrote:
         | The criterion is along the lines of something that may be of
         | interest to hackers. Not necessarily as hackers, but to them in
         | general.
         | 
         | All communities either become conservative and lock in around a
         | few norms and aggressively police them or become liberal and
         | become about anything and everything.
         | 
         | There is no healthy middle.
         | 
         | I mean why should economics and housing and finance topics be
         | of interests to hackers?
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | It's kind of a community feel - I think HN has done a good
           | job of flexing occasionally to allow non-tech news around
           | cultural influences.
           | 
           | The Rolling Stones are one of the most influential rock bands
           | of the past half century and that is potentially worthy of
           | discussion.
           | 
           | I think housing and economy and finance are even more
           | appropriate at times, especially when discussing topics that
           | affect the average person - wonky, technical discussions that
           | take a lot of thought and processing of second order effects.
        
         | heyheyheysome wrote:
         | He's white, so his death is newsworthy for HN. Contrast with
         | say Kobe Bryant.
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | I'm always in favour of just letting the upvote/downvote
         | buttons determine appropriateness.
        
         | kirykl wrote:
         | Presumably the upvotes say it is of interest
        
           | cma wrote:
           | If we go by that alone, next up: bikini pics and tabloid
           | news.
        
             | argvargc wrote:
             | How then would you explain that this has never happened
             | here?
        
         | 101008 wrote:
         | The Rolling Stones are one of the greatest bands of all times.
         | The passing of one of its original members (who, by the way,
         | was part of the band for 58 years) it's a cultural event that
         | it is worth discussing it.
        
           | guhidalg wrote:
           | Yea but it has nothing to do with hacking or technology, and
           | if you think it does then please explain how this belongs.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | If you read just the first paragraph of
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html you'll see
             | that HN is about more than hacking or technology; hopefully
             | a lot more.
        
             | 101008 wrote:
             | From Guidelines:
             | 
             | > anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosit
             | 
             | I think something like this gratifies intellectual curiosit
             | of a lot of people. But as someone else said, upvotes and
             | downvotes will decide better than any rule.
        
             | golergka wrote:
             | It's one of the best qualities of HN as a community: it's
             | never supposed to be so dry.
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | Charlie originally was trained as a graphic artist before
             | joining the band so maybe that will give you some
             | Satisfaction?
        
             | lisper wrote:
             | > it has nothing to do with hacking or technology
             | 
             | Don't be so sure. Music is intimately related to math, and
             | the Stones were one of the most innovative [Edit:
             | influential] musical groups in human history. There are
             | probably hacking and tech connections that are not
             | immediately obvious.
             | 
             | Also, social phenomena are interesting from a technological
             | point of view as well (there's a reason social media is a
             | thing) and the Stones were definitely that.
        
               | pstuart wrote:
               | They hacked the blues into rock and roll. They weren't
               | the only ones doing so but were obviously major players.
               | 
               | I'm not sure about them being among the most innovative
               | but are without doubt among the most influential.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | Yes, good point. I edited my comment.
        
               | Stratoscope wrote:
               | > _Music is intimately related to math_
               | 
               | If anyone had told me that when I was a kid, it would
               | have been a life changing event.
               | 
               | My mom had a piano and played it, badly. She tried to
               | sight read, but had no sense of tempo, or of starting
               | with slow practice (playing in time, but slower). And she
               | liked to play what she called "schmaltzy" stuff. (Think
               | "Heart and Soul" and "Peg o' My Heart" played with a
               | constantly varying tempo, speeding up and slowing down as
               | she worked out the notes.)
               | 
               | This is not to criticize her: she did what she could to
               | instill a love of music in her kids.
               | 
               | But I was happier reading my math and physics books. I
               | tried to make sense of Mom's sheet music, but it just
               | seemed like a bunch of dots and lines.
               | 
               | If I'd known that sheet music notation had anything to do
               | with math, I would have jumped on it!
        
           | TabTwo wrote:
           | Impressive uptime
        
         | glitcher wrote:
         | I for one am glad there is a wide variety of topics of interest
         | posted and discussed here. If we were only pigeonholed into
         | tech topics I would probably get bored of HN.
         | 
         | I did prefer the original title which included the fact that
         | Charlie Watts was the drummer for the Rolling Stones. I didn't
         | know him by name, and adding more context to the title seemed
         | helpful to me at least.
         | 
         | In general I feel like HN suffers from title over-editing, but
         | never from too much variety.
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > How is this appropriate for Hacker News?
         | 
         | It's not another political or cultural flamewar?
         | 
         | Also, these people have been around for so long, that I was
         | starting to suspect they were actually immortal.
         | 
         | > The news comes weeks after it was announced that Watts would
         | miss the band's US tour dates to recover from an unspecified
         | medical procedure.
        
         | argvargc wrote:
         | Because it stayed up long enough for you to see it.
        
         | gpas wrote:
         | https://fortune.com/2013/07/21/inside-rolling-stones-inc-for...
        
         | France_is_bacon wrote:
         | I wrote an app on the Rolling Stones a while back.
        
       | ajay-b wrote:
       | Im speechless. Of all the things the others did and took, damn.
       | Just a horrible shame.
        
       | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
       | "Charlie's good tonight, isn't he?" One of my favorite parts from
       | one of my favorite albums, Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out by The Rolling
       | Stones. Wherever you are Charlie, keep being good.
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=jtno1O7NIGQ
        
       | linksnapzz wrote:
       | A demonstration of the Charlie Watts method for handling
       | interpersonal conflict on a high-performing team of specialists:
       | 
       |  _" One anecdote relates that in the mid-1980s, an intoxicated
       | Jagger phoned Watts's hotel room in the middle of the night,
       | asking, "Where's my drummer?" Watts reportedly got up, shaved,
       | dressed in a suit, put on a tie and freshly shined shoes,
       | descended the stairs, and punched Jagger in the face, saying:
       | "Don't ever call me your drummer again. You're my fucking
       | singer!"_
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Schiphol wrote:
         | This comes from [Keith Richards'
         | autobiography](https://www.keithrichards.com/life), apparently.
         | Here's the full passage:
         | 
         |  _" Mick and I weren't on great terms at the time, but I said,
         | c'mon, let's go out. And I lent him the jacket I got married
         | in. We got back to the hotel about five in the morning and Mick
         | called up Charlie. I said, don't call him, not at this hour.
         | But he did, and said, 'Where's my drummer?' No answer. He puts
         | the phone down. Mick and I were still sitting there, pretty
         | pissed - give Mick a couple of glasses, he's gone - when, about
         | twenty minutes later, there was a knock at the door. There was
         | Charlie Watts, Savile Row suit, perfectly dressed, tie, shaved,
         | the whole fucking bit. I could smell the cologne! I opened the
         | door and he didn't even look at me, he walked straight past me,
         | got hold of Mick and said, 'Never call me your drummer again.'
         | Then he hauled him up by the lapels of my jacket and gave him a
         | right hook."_
        
           | the-dude wrote:
           | For non native speakers ( like myself ), _pissed_ probably
           | means _(very) drunk_ in this context.
        
             | ch4s3 wrote:
             | In British and Australian English, yes. We don't say it in
             | the US.
        
               | bregma wrote:
               | That's interesting. Where I grew up in Canada, "being
               | pissed" could mean either very drunk ( _piss drunk_ ) or
               | very angry ( _pissed off_ ) and you need to rely on
               | context to disambiguate. On the other hand, the British
               | phrase "taking the piss" would mean obtaining a urine
               | sample and it's just downright confusing.
        
               | mmmpop wrote:
               | In America, "piss drunk" has a place but "being pissed"
               | means exclusively "to be angry"... at least in every part
               | I've ever been. I can't speak for upper New England,
               | perhaps they'd take exception.
        
               | edoceo wrote:
               | It's called "wicked drunk" down east. "wicked pissed" is
               | very angry.
        
               | Folcon wrote:
               | "taking the piss" can also mean taking a situation too
               | far / making fun of someone =)...
               | 
               | Lots of Britishisms require context to disambiguate.
        
               | mdp2021 wrote:
               | > the British phrase "taking the piss"
               | 
               | It's an extreme for "irony" - dissimulation (so extreme
               | that I should add a /J). In other regions it would be "to
               | fuck with someone".
               | 
               | I never understood the exact source of the expression. It
               | could have been the mockery of stealing urine from the
               | poor (who could actually sell it - I believe for example
               | it is still used in tanneries around the world).
        
         | lisper wrote:
         | > punched Jagger in the face
         | 
         | That seems a wee bit excessive to me.
         | 
         | [UPDATE, since this has gotten a zillion replies and a zillion
         | downvotes]: The point I was intending to make was not that
         | Watts's response was inappropriate under the circumstances
         | (though I think that is also the case), but rather that
         | "Charlie Watts method for handling interpersonal conflict on a
         | high-performing team of specialists" is not one that ought to
         | be held up as an example to be generally emulated.
        
           | mdp2021 wrote:
           | I just finished reading pages from Charlie Munger about the
           | importance of putting disincentives to undesirable behaviour.
           | 
           | What one finds excessive is, of course, cultural. The pages
           | ended remembering the tribe of two millennia ago who killed
           | the last warrior to show at the assembly, or the use of
           | George Washington to hang farm-boy deserters forty feet high
           | as an example.
        
             | technothrasher wrote:
             | Did Munger have any citations for these two claims? There
             | seems to be plenty of discussion around on what executions
             | did or didn't happen during the American revolutionary war,
             | but I couldn't find anything even close to hanging farm-boy
             | deserters "forty feet high". On the 2000 year old tribe, I
             | couldn't find anything at all.
        
               | yann2 wrote:
               | If Native Americans displayed undesirable behavior such
               | as not accepting his "fair price" for their land George
               | did have them "extirpated".
        
             | AdamN wrote:
             | Watched the most recent Berkshire Hathaway meeting which
             | was really fascinating. However, Munger seems like he
             | doesn't challenge his assumptions very often and also
             | builds anecdotes whole cloth without alot of true
             | historical facts to back up the claims.
             | 
             | Which book/essay are you referring to?
        
               | mdp2021 wrote:
               | "The Revised Psychology of Human Misjudgment"
               | 
               | Text accessible e.g. at fs.blog/great-talks/psychology-
               | human-misjudgment/
               | 
               | > _However_
               | 
               | He is having fun trying to transmit wisdom of his to the
               | interested. That is the scope.
        
             | choeger wrote:
             | Somehow I doubt that this tribe had a lot of successful
             | wars...
        
             | upearly3 wrote:
             | > two millennia ago who killed the last warrior to show at
             | the assembly
             | 
             | Given Shaka Zulu, you don't have to go back that far.
        
           | brodouevencode wrote:
           | That's rock and roll for ya.
        
           | linksnapzz wrote:
           | I think you ought to reserve judgement until after you've had
           | to manage a drunken Mick Jagger on your team. I won't condone
           | this as a general approach, but I can see it working in
           | certain circumstances, with certain people.
        
             | bryanrasmussen wrote:
             | if that's what you do with a drunk Mick Jagger what the
             | hell do you do with a drunk Keith Richards?
             | 
             | You should grab Jagger by the shirt collar and threaten
             | him, so that you can punch Richards and have somewhere to
             | escalate as need be.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Show me a sober keith richards to compare to, and we can
               | have a talk. Otherwise, it's just dealing with keith.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | ok so if you punch Jagger, what do you do with Keith?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | O.K. Just a little pin prick There'll be no more
               | aaaaaaaah! But you may feel a little sick
               | 
               | Can you stand up? I do believe it's working, good That'll
               | keep you going through the show Come on, it's time to go
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | So Dylan, in answering a question about Keith Richards,
               | quotes the lyrics of Pink Floyd.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | just seemed so appropriate to use lyrics from the
               | greatest band ever to answer questions about another band
               | bandied about being the greatest but just not quite.
               | <ducks>
        
               | upearly3 wrote:
               | Give him either Ronnie Van Zant as the lead singer or
               | Buddy Rich as his drummer.
        
               | crispyambulance wrote:
               | > what do you do with Keith?
               | 
               | Probably just tip him over with a slight push of your
               | palm.
        
               | linksnapzz wrote:
               | I was about to say; please tell me how you plan to
               | establish "drunkeness" in Keith; the heuristics applied,
               | the methodology used, the Keith-related emissions to be
               | analyzed && the make and model of the mass-spec and HPLC
               | used in the process.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | what ever that machine is, it would be the most sought
               | after machine by every DUI defense lawyer ever.
        
           | crispyambulance wrote:
           | > That seems a wee bit excessive to me.
           | 
           | It was a very different, more flamboyant and volatile, era.
           | 
           | Recently watched "Gimme Shelter" a documentary about the free
           | concert at Altamont in 1970 that ended with someone in the
           | Hells Angels (which had been hired for security!) stabbing a
           | concert-goer to death. This film, according to some,
           | documents "the end of the 60's" and marked the beginning of a
           | much meaner era. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidchiu/2019
           | /12/03/altamont-a...).
           | 
           | "Gimme Shelter" (the film) captures the band personalities in
           | a really preceptive way. Watts is pensive and brooding,
           | Jagger is mercurial and far-removed from Earthy reality.
        
             | grawprog wrote:
             | Not the song that was actually playing during the stabbing,
             | as the urban legend goes, but, I still think the Altamont
             | show has one of the best versions of Sympathy for the
             | Devil. So raw sounding and you can hear the crowd starting
             | to get riled up and stuff.
        
           | MichaelMoser123 wrote:
           | It's Rock & Roll, they had to take it rough, sometimes.
        
             | earleybird wrote:
             | +1 for the Tina Turner reference
        
           | meepmorp wrote:
           | Obviously you've never encountered Lead Singer's Disease; a
           | punch in the face is the only way.
        
           | fridif wrote:
           | This is why you aren't on a team of high performing
           | individuals
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | It's important to set boundaries and expectations in a long
           | term business relationship, with the approach tailored to
           | like minded practitioners.
        
         | pjmorris wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure that this is my favorite Rolling Stones story,
         | ever. In 'Life', Keith Richards talked about it really being
         | Charlie's band, he was just in it.
        
       | oger wrote:
       | Charlie Watts was not only a great rock musician but (unbeknownst
       | to many) a gifted jazz player and a gentleman. Rest in peace.
        
       | riffic wrote:
       | You know that xkcd post about people who've walked on the moon?
       | 
       | same thing applies for 60s cultural icons. so it goes.
        
         | milesskorpen wrote:
         | Reference:
         | https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/893:_65_Years
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | Of interest is the updated graph (red line shows actual,
           | which is sadly right on track): https://imgur.com/G7DbbBi
        
           | wyldfire wrote:
           | > The universe is probably littered with the one-planet
           | graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision
           | that there's no good reason to go into space--each
           | discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the
           | irrational decision.
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | I understand and agree, although some are somewhat preposterous
         | and only ever made sense in context. I finally watched Easy
         | Rider recently, and sure, the freedom, riding with no
         | protection, sleeping wherever - but it's such a mediocre,
         | badly-woven film. Same for quite a few Stones songs and a lot
         | of other '60s/70s stuff - except Jimi Hendrix, that man was an
         | alien.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | Could it be that they just had a different agenda for their
           | art than you do, and that the context and agendas changed
           | over time? I find it more interesting to try to understand
           | their time, to try to learn what their view of art was, what
           | the norms were, what the context, was, and why - rather than
           | try to judge their work by my standards, as if the changes of
           | time have made my way superior.
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Context allows us to forgive some sins (which is what I was
             | alluding to, in the first half of my comment on Easy
             | Rider), not all of them.
             | 
             | It is an objective fact that the centralization and
             | scarcity of mass-media broadcasting, back then, effectively
             | acted as a funnel towards certain works, amplifying their
             | influence well beyond their merit.
        
               | LunaSea wrote:
               | Popular has never implied quality. Even more so now that
               | the choice is practically infinite.
               | 
               | No doubt in my mind that the Stones or the Beatles would
               | be big in the 21st century if they were upcoming bands
               | nowadays.
        
       | icare_1er wrote:
       | Saw him at Pizza Express in London, playing with his boogie-
       | woogie mates... will miss that chap. I fear the rest of the
       | Stones will soon follow. RIP Charlie.
        
       | krylon wrote:
       | I am not big Stones fan (I have nothing against them, either,
       | they are a legend!), but I always liked his style.
       | 
       | Rest In Peace.
        
       | gdubs wrote:
       | I learned to drum listening to Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones
       | albums my dad set up for me in the garage. Watts is one of those
       | great drummers who a lot of people miss because on the surface he
       | seems simple. But, he's hands down one of the greatest rock and
       | roll drummers, up there with Ringo, Bonham.
        
       | marban wrote:
       | The biggest prize I ever won were _on-stage_ tickets for the RS
       | some twenty years ago and it turned out to be my greatest concert
       | experience ever since. RIP.
       | 
       | https://imgur.com/a/kt1VB7n
        
       | goatherders wrote:
       | This one hurts. One of my favorite parts of his style was he
       | often didn't hit the high hat on 4 of a 4/4 beat. It's hard to
       | hear it but I always thought that was an interesting choice.
       | Whether he did it because that's how he learned to play or to
       | deliberately leave some room for other sounds on the downbeat, it
       | was interesting to me.
        
         | mgarciaisaia wrote:
         | Here's an interview in which he says he didn't ever noticed it
         | - and some other guy (whom I'm too ignorant to identify) -
         | explains how Charlie came up with that.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/CrAQQZi1Jf4
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mgkimsal wrote:
         | I first noticed that watching... the ... 81 tour film (album
         | was 'Still Life' IIRC), I think, when I was first really
         | digging in (well, it was ... probably 1990 when I was watching
         | it, but that was still relatively 'recent').
         | 
         | I've watched for it in most videos and live perf since then and
         | yep, didn't seem to change much. Unsure if it was a jazz-
         | flavored thing or what, but distinctive.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | sometimes those simple removals make all the salt
        
       | beermonster wrote:
       | RIP. I shall play some Stones tonight!
        
       | wombatmobile wrote:
       | "I don't need to hear Bill to go through a song. I need to hear
       | Keith to go through a song. I know Bill will be playing what I'm
       | playing anyway. I need to hear Keith because it's all there: the
       | time, the chord changes, and all the licks you have to follow."
       | 
       | -- Charlie Watts
        
       | mgkimsal wrote:
       | It's hard to talk too much about Charlie specifically, as in...
       | he was a generally private person, and didn't do half the
       | interviews the others did, but I remember a moderately 'techie'
       | Stones connection from way back...
       | 
       | The Stones were a pretty early adopter of some tech, and were
       | 'streaming' back in 1994.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbone
       | 
       | 'A November 1994 Rolling Stones concert at the Cotton Bowl in
       | Dallas with 50,000 fans was the "first major cyberspace multicast
       | concert."'
        
       | l-_l-_l-_lo_ol wrote:
       | There's going to be a lot of people who rose to fame in the 60's
       | fame-boom who are going to drop like flies soon.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-24 23:01 UTC)