[HN Gopher] Home Lab Hardware Guide
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Home Lab Hardware Guide
        
       Author : ashitlerferad
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2021-08-23 10:50 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (haydenjames.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (haydenjames.io)
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | I'm on board with most of this except the suggestion that rack
       | mounted hardware should be kept where people live.
       | 
       |  _No._
       | 
       | I can't afford a house but like to tinker with networking. I pay
       | more for weaker equipment so it will be low power/low noise. I'd
       | love to just buy half a dozen used Dell PowerEdges but rack-
       | mounted hardware is insanely loud.
       | 
       | A basement is the ideal spot. Water isn't an issue as long as
       | your rack is not directly under anything that could leak
       | (including on higher floors) and has a palette underneath it. If
       | there is the possibility of your basement flooding more than 2
       | inches then you have bigger problems you need to address first.
       | Keeping a rack with electronic equipment there will motivate you
       | to do what you should be doing to the place anyway: dehumidifying
       | and managing pests.
        
         | croutonwagon wrote:
         | Yeah i tend to agree..
         | 
         | I had a small rack in our old house. Mostly just to house the
         | router/switch because the little cabinet wouldnt fit.
         | 
         | My wife dubbed it the EyeRack, short for eyesore.
         | 
         | For the most part you can easily hide this stuff in a cabinet
         | or a bookshelf, no one will be the wiser.
         | 
         | Ill never really understand people using pizza box style
         | servers, especially 1U units, in a home. With the sole
         | exception of the one time i saw one stood veritcally behind an
         | entertainment center. I think i was the only person at the
         | party to notice it.
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | IF you live near a co-lo, you might be able to get a half rack
         | and go in on it with a buddy or two.
        
         | snuxoll wrote:
         | > I'd love to just buy half a dozen used Dell PowerEdges but
         | rack-mounted hardware is insanely loud.
         | 
         | This is a common belief that isn't quite correct. My 2U Dell
         | R520 is quite quiet after the initial boot (once the BMC takes
         | over fan control), albeit I had to do some ipmitool magic to
         | get it to not ramp them up with non-OEM PCIe cards installed.
         | 
         | My 1U R420 and R320 boxes? Yeah, they're a little loud, 40mm
         | fans have to run at higher speeds to get air flowing.
         | 
         | Ultimately my lab lives in my home office and the noise doesn't
         | really bother me, I wouldn't put it in the bedroom or living
         | room though.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | I've kept my server[0] in my basement since I moved into a
         | place with one. I keep it elevated off the floor (not just for
         | water concerns, but airflow, too) and under a table. Although
         | it doesn't, it can make a lot of noise since no one's near it
         | most of the time.
         | 
         | [0] is really an old desktop.
        
         | deeblering4 wrote:
         | I've done this and it wasn't good. The servers heated up the
         | basement, and chewed through power like crazy. Plus it was
         | heavy as hell and a pain to recycle.
         | 
         | Rack servers are that form factor to maximize expensive
         | datacenter rack space. Once you are not in a datacenter regular
         | commodity hardware is a better bet.
         | 
         | For home use really laptops are ideal. They have an inbuilt UPS
         | and KVM.
        
         | Saris wrote:
         | Agreed, I started with rack mount stuff and quickly moved away
         | from it. Very loud and for the budget stuff frequently used by
         | homelabs, very power hungry for not that much performance.
        
       | memetomancer wrote:
       | So many of these posts gainsaying the practice of a home lab are
       | spot on. In my view it's plain foolish to try and cram enterprise
       | gear into a living space. It's almost too hot and loud for my
       | office, why would I take any of that home?
       | 
       | The other posts talking about Tiny Mini Micros are on the right
       | track but I think it goes further yet - there's good reason to
       | have a small rack of crap in the corner:
       | 
       | - ISP hardware.
       | 
       | - pfSense gateway.
       | 
       | - Wifi base station.
       | 
       | - A good gigabit switch for the house.
       | 
       | - Those tiny mini micros or Mac minis for lab stuff.
       | 
       | - a NAS chassis or two.
       | 
       | - Raspberry Pi clusters.
       | 
       | - PiDP-11 or other such hobby stuff that needs a place to sit and
       | blink.
       | 
       | There are plenty of other uses too, like security DVRs, ingest
       | stations for cameras/recorders, optical and tape media devices,
       | etc.
       | 
       | None of that stuff is hot or loud, but you probably wouldn't want
       | it piled up on your desk or spilling out of some bookshelf. And I
       | think the article kinda gets at that point, tbh.
        
       | the_third_wave wrote:
       | I made a rack out of some dumpster-dived supermarket shelves,
       | lumber, a truck air filter and a forced draft fan. The thing
       | doubles as drying cabinet for produce (mint, mushrooms, fruit
       | etc.) by having the equipment in the top half of the rack
       | followed by an air flow divider and 8 rack-sized metal-mesh-
       | covered drying frames. From top to bottom the thing contains:
       | 
       | * D-Link DGS-3324SR (managed switch, EUR35)
       | 
       | * HP DL380G7 with 2xX5675 @3.07GHz, 128GB (ECC) RAM and 8x147GB
       | SAS drives (EUR450)
       | 
       | * NetApp DS4243 (24x3.5" SAS array, currently populated with
       | 24x650GB 15K SAS drives, EUR400)
       | 
       | * the mentioned airflow divider
       | 
       | * 8 drying frames
       | 
       | It is managed through Proxmox on Debian and runs a host of
       | services including a virtual router (OpenWRT), serving us here on
       | the farm and the extended family spread over 2 countries. The
       | server-mounted array is used as a boot drive and to host some
       | container and VM images, the DS4243 array is configured as a JBOD
       | running a mixture of LVM/mdadm managed arrays and stripe sets
       | used as VM/container image and data storage. I chose mdadm over
       | ZFS because of the greater flexibility it offers. The array in
       | the DL380 is managed by the P410i array controller (i.e. hardware
       | raid), I have 4 spare drives in storage to be used as
       | replacements for failed drives.
       | 
       | The rack is about 1.65m high, it looks like this (here minus the
       | DS4243 array which now sits just above the air flow divider):
       | 
       | https://imgur.com/a/M4Lbf1K
       | 
       | In the not-too-distant future I'll replace the 15K SAS drives
       | with larger albeit slower (7.2K) SAS or SATA drives to get more
       | space and (especially) less heat - those 15K drives run hot.
       | After a warm summer I added an extra air intake + filter on the
       | front side (not visible on the photos), facing the equipment.
       | This is made possible by the fact that cooling air is pulled
       | through the contraption from the underside instead of being blown
       | in through the filter(s).
       | 
       | I chose this specific hardware - a fairly loaded DL380G7, the
       | DS4243 - because these offered the best price/performance ratio
       | when I got them (in 2018). Spare parts for these devices are
       | cheap and easily available, I made sure to get a full complement
       | of power supplies for both devices (2 for the DL380G7, 4 for the
       | DS4243) although I'm only using half of these. I recently had to
       | replace a power supply in the DL380 (EUR20) and two drives in the
       | DS4243 (EUR20/piece), for the rest everything has been working
       | fine for close to 4 years now.
       | 
       | On the question whether this much hardware is needed, well, that
       | depends on what you want to do. If you just want to serve media
       | files and have a shell host to log in to the answer is probably
       | 'no', depending on the size of the library. Instead of using
       | 'enterprise class' equipment you could try to build a system
       | tailored to the home environment which prioritizes a reduction in
       | power consumption and noise levels over redundancy and
       | performance. You'll probably end up spending about the same
       | amount of money for hardware, a bit more in time and get a
       | substantially lower performing system but you'd be rewarded by
       | the lower noise levels and reduced power consumption. The latter
       | can be offset by adding a few solar panels, the former by moving
       | the rack to a less noise-sensitive location - the basement, the
       | barn, etc.
       | 
       | As to having 19" rack equipment in the home I'd say this is
       | feasible as long as you don't have to sit right next to the
       | things. Even with the totally enclosed, forced-draft rack I made
       | the thing does produce enough noise to make it hard to forget it
       | is there.
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | For UK people https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/ is an
       | _excellent_ source of kit.
       | 
       | Personally I steer away from cisco. Yes, some people in
       | enterprise swear by it, but I _personally_ hate it with a
       | passion. However there is a fucktonne of it on ebay.
       | 
       | I use ubiquiti for APs, but I've not tried their switching.
       | Currently I have some dlink "smart" stuff. Its PoE and has vlans,
       | which is good enough for my purposes. Can do 10gig, not bad for <
       | PS120 (second hand)
       | 
       | Firewall, I'm all for pfsense. I've never liked hardware
       | firewall/router appliances. They've always sucked.
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | I strongly endorse this notion of equipping your own laboratory
       | for your experiments. Learning through doing is always more
       | durable than learning through reading only.
       | 
       | While the author is looking at learning about and perfecting
       | their skills as an administrator of networked computer systems
       | there are other "kinds" of laboratories that people set up.
       | 
       | Mine, and one I'm more familiar with, are electronics labs. If
       | you're going to be learning about circuits and such it helps to
       | have the basic kit at hand. Similarly for people doing robotics,
       | having a 3D printer in their home lab is essential these days.
       | Nearly everything you might do in a home laboratory will involve
       | some sort of data processing so the ideas by the author are great
       | for creating the lab's "IT infrastructure."
       | 
       | In California it also makes it easier to defend the "I built this
       | technology my own gear (picture/description of lab) so you don't
       | own it." But that may be unique to California.
        
         | mcshicks wrote:
         | Yeah I think I was expecting a home lab = "home electronics
         | lab", although some networking equipment is still required. The
         | rack mount stuff is nice, but yeah, scopes, bench dmm and power
         | supplies, solder station, cable hangers and many drawers to
         | sort parts was what I was expecting to see. Still the rack
         | mount stuff is pretty cool. I have quite a few raspberry pis
         | these days and was always looking for some "rack mount" style
         | ways to make the power/ethernet cables nice and still have some
         | easy way to temporarily hook up keyboard/mouse/monitor when
         | it's occasionally needed.
        
       | tbyehl wrote:
       | I've been re-establishing my home lab and decided to get away
       | from rackmount gear. I found ServeTheHome's TinyMiniMicro[1]
       | series invaluable for choosing some mini PCs that would be right
       | for me.
       | 
       | I went with three HP Prodesk 600 G4 that averaged $250/ea with
       | the i5-8500T/i5-8600T, 256GB NVMe, and a total of 40GB RAM. They
       | can go to 64GB RAM, the dual M.2 M-key plus potentially an SFF
       | SATA drive offer plenty of storage potential, they're effectively
       | silent, and power consumption is much lower than a big server
       | full of fans. vPro potentially offers out-of-band remote
       | management but I haven't tried digging into that yet.
       | 
       | I have two dedicated to Frigate with M.2 Coral TPUs. On the third
       | I've been consolidating the sprawl of Linux VMs and Docker
       | containers running home automation and network management stuff.
       | Could probably make do with just two but why buy only two when
       | you can have three?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.servethehome.com/tag/tinyminimicro/
        
       | rektide wrote:
       | > _AMD has really raised the bar. I'm most impressed with the CPU
       | performance of the M715q. They both run quiet and cool, with
       | Ubuntu Server and Windows 10._
       | 
       | The M715q was offered with a fantastic 4750G chip, a Ryzen 7 Pro
       | chip with 8 core. Today all one can buy in terms of small form
       | factor business PCs is an M75n with low end low power Ryzen
       | 3300U, a multiple-generations old Ryzen 3 with 4 cores.
       | 
       | Small business PCs are great, and for a while, there was serious
       | excitement that AMD was going to make this segment much more
       | interesting. Those dreams seem to have all been cancelled. I'm
       | glad to see that affordable, competent AMD laptops are about,
       | because in many ways it feels like AMD has succeeded so greatly
       | that they have vanished from the market. They don't seem to be
       | allocating production capacity to consumer GPUs, they seem to
       | have withdrawn from this price-conscious market segment,... AMD
       | keeps vanishing.
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | I just did some work on my main server, and my take is a bit
       | different.
       | 
       | I upgraded my desktop and built a server from a Ryzen 1700, put
       | 64GB of RAM in it, and now this one device acts as DNS
       | filter/cache(Pi-Hole), VPN server (Pi-VPN Wireguard), and a 10TB
       | ZFS NAS. This is just the base, I also use it for gaming and
       | labs.
       | 
       | The main recommendations:
       | 
       | Fractal Design Define R5 - this is a large case, and is pretty
       | wide - but it is a dream to work in. The extra width gives plenty
       | of room behind the motherboard for hiding cables. It has quiet
       | fans, it is built to minimize noise, and it can hold 8+ hard
       | drives.
       | 
       | OS: Proxmox. I use this as the host OS, and configure my ZFS on
       | the host. I then expose the ZFS as a NAS via a privileged
       | container running Turnkey Linux.
       | 
       | If you get some multi-port NICs on it, you can put an OPNSense
       | firewall as a VM, and use the machine as your router as well. In
       | the end, you would only need UPS, modem, small switch, and the
       | host.
        
       | dragontamer wrote:
       | Note that 10Gbe SFP+ switches have come down to $250 or so, and
       | may be worthwhile for homelabs to experiment with. See Mikrotik's
       | CRS309-1G-8S+IN, or servethehome's review
       | (https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs309-1g-8sin-
       | review-...).
       | 
       | If only because most of us probably already know how to use
       | Cat5/Cat6 Ethernet, but how many of us have experimented with
       | fiber optics?
       | 
       | 10Gb Ethernet over Cat6 exists too. But that may be boring for
       | some! Home labs are about experimenting with new things.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Another advantage of fiber is it helps prevent lightning and
         | other power surges from spreading. If your equipment is
         | protected on the power edge, fiber isolates it on the network
         | side.
        
           | dragontamer wrote:
           | Hmm, maybe "fiber" is the wrong moniker here.
           | 
           | I'm more talking about SFP+ ports, because most of your
           | connections within the rack will probably be DAC (copper
           | cables pretending to be fiber) for lower costs. Fiber is
           | really for longer runs. If you only have a few feet worth of
           | cable, I'm not sure if fiber per se is worth it over DAC.
           | 
           | But learning to work with SFP+ hardware is a skill, just like
           | learning to strip CAT6 cable or run it around. Working with
           | DAC cables, or SFP+ modules and finding what works is the
           | "dumb part" of IT, but the kind of stuff you need to practice
           | a few times to understand.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | Grabbing a few SFP+ ConnectX-2 cards from Ebay (for $30 or
           | so), a few DAC cables, and a $250 switch... you can be well
           | on your way to a 10Gbit network.
        
             | kazen44 wrote:
             | DAC cables are usually vastly more expensive then SFP+
             | optics and some multimode cable.
             | 
             | Singlemode is not really required in a homelab setting
             | because of distance, but DAC cables are more trouble then
             | their worth in my opinion.
        
       | walterbell wrote:
       | _> Enterprise features: Ubiquiti EdgeRouter ER-10X, 10 Port
       | Gigabit Router with PoE Flexibility - $110 (specs) - (10) Gigabit
       | RJ45 Ports, PoE Passthrough on Port 10, Dual-Core, 880 MHz,
       | MIPS1004Kc Processor, 512 MB DDR3 RAM, 512 MB NAND Flash Storage,
       | Internal Switch, Serial Console Port_
       | 
       | Has anyone been able to purchase a small Ubiquiti EdgeRouter in
       | the last six months? They've been out of stock at Amazon, Newegg,
       | B&H. Beginning to wonder if they have deprioritized the consumer
       | market, since other vendors are shipping routers.
        
         | tbyehl wrote:
         | Ubiquiti appears to have been prioritizing their own online
         | store since the supply chain disruptions began. The ER-10X in
         | particular may also be suffering from a general lack of
         | popularity -- they've only had stock twice this year in fairly
         | low quantities. They sell through fairly quick, but not nearly
         | as fast as the ER-X which has been stocked regularly and in
         | much larger quantities.
         | 
         | There's an inventory tracker for the Ubiquiti store on the
         | Discord.
         | 
         | https://discord.gg/ui
        
         | mbreese wrote:
         | Are they still making them? I thought they had switched to
         | pushing their Dream Machine as opposed to the Edge Router
         | series.
        
           | nullwarp wrote:
           | I _hate_ the Dream Machines. We've been switching to them at
           | work and the whole cloud UI is just an absolute mess. It's so
           | hard to find anything.
           | 
           | I will be sad when the last of our Mikrotik stuff gets
           | swapped out.
        
         | p_j_w wrote:
         | EdgeRouter 4 is available on their own store right now. Most of
         | it's lighter weight siblings aren't, but their 3 most expensive
         | models are also out of stock. None of their consumer wifi gear
         | seems out of stock, though. I'd guess Si shortages before
         | assuming they deprioritized the consumer market.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Yeah, at that $250 price point there are x86 coreboot
           | alternatives.
        
       | KingMachiavelli wrote:
       | Rack mount hardware is almost always expensive, loud, and power
       | hungry. I just have never seen the point of building a home lab
       | like this.
       | 
       | A single ATX desktop can do almost [1] everything a homelab at a
       | fraction of the cost & power consuption. I think a lot of the
       | reason for homelabs/server hardware was to get access to more CPU
       | cores, now that 8+ cores are very cheap it is actually cheaper to
       | buy a new consumer desktop than it is to run an old server.
       | 
       | What makes even less sense is _wanting_ use to use software like
       | vSphere or ESXi since its about 10x more complicated than just
       | using virt-manager /QEMU. It's like using an excavator to dig a
       | fire pit. Server hardware & software makes sense when it's not
       | your home because then you do need a remote access tool like
       | iDRACK. (There are DIY options if you just need something for
       | personal use).
       | 
       | That said if you enjoy it as a hobby (or your homelab is actually
       | a business thing) then go for it.
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | > expensive
         | 
         | This isn't always true. I got a 24-port Aruba 802.3at PoE
         | switch with FOUR 10-gigabit ports, for a grand total of $120.
         | 
         | > loud, and power hungry
         | 
         | Again, not always true. Enterprises do care about power a lot
         | of the time.
         | 
         | I highly recommend the Ubiquiti stuff for home lab use -- most
         | of it is pretty quiet.
         | 
         | If you buy other rack-mount hardware, try to buy at least 2U
         | hardware, the bigger fans are much quieter than the 40mm fans
         | in 1U equipement.
         | 
         | If you must buy non-Ubiquiti 1U equipment, you can usually
         | change the fans out for Noctua fans.
         | 
         | > A single ATX desktop
         | 
         | You can build an ATX desktop into a 4U case. I highly recommend
         | the SilverStone RM42-502 for about $250 on Amazon. It takes
         | standard components including standard ATX power supply,
         | standard ATX, micro-ATX, or mini-ITX motherboard, standard fans
         | (or even a CorsAir liquid cooler), it's basically a standard
         | case. If you use quiet components it will be quiet. My ATX rack
         | mount PC is not even noticeable unless I'm running up my GPU
         | doing machine learning stuff.
         | 
         | There are much cheaper cases available as well, but the
         | SilverStone case is quality, and will last you forever, you can
         | just keep building new PCs into it for as long as ATX/ITX
         | exist.
         | 
         | One of the advantages to building your PC in a rack mount
         | configuration is that it's very easy to stack multiple PCs
         | along with your network routers, switches, NAS, UPS, in one
         | nice rack that's easy to move from apartment to apartment in
         | one piece, and all your cables and connections stay nice and
         | tidy.
         | 
         | It's also ideal if you play with a lot of smaller devices. For
         | example if you want to have a cluster of 10 RPis, a rack mount
         | solution is great for keeping the ethernet and power cables
         | tidy, and it isn't going to be loud or any more power hungry
         | than if you had them spread out across the table.
         | 
         | You can also 3D print rack mounts for non-rack equipment, just
         | to keep them tidy.
         | 
         | My rack: https://i.redd.it/xcss9uassrg71.jpg
        
         | actually_a_dog wrote:
         | I agree. My setup is very much like the setup shown near the
         | end of the article (the one that consists of a couple Synology
         | NAS boxes and what looks like a few Mac Minis or other small
         | form factor PCs). I have a file server with a decently large
         | storage array and a few Raspberry Pis and other small
         | electronic gizmos, some of which connect to my wifi, and some
         | which plug into a PC via various cables (ethernet, USB, _etc._
         | )
         | 
         | The only thing out of this that consumes any amount of power
         | worth mentioning is the file server/storage array. I haven't
         | measured how much power it uses (I probably should), but I'm
         | able to minimize it by allowing the disks to go to sleep and
         | the CPU to run slower than when I'm actively using it.
         | 
         | I've never felt limited by this setup at all, but, then again,
         | my home lab isn't really my main hobby.
        
         | kaladin-jasnah wrote:
         | > A single ATX desktop can do almost [1] everything a homelab
         | at a fraction of the cost & power consuption.
         | 
         | So this is true, but the iDRAC/iLO on my big, loud server has a
         | virtual KVM feature that lets me lazily sit at my desk and
         | click buttons and install my server operating system of choice.
         | It saves a lot of space and effort compared to flashing a USB,
         | going and plugging in a keyboard, (mouse), and monitor, and
         | going through the whole deal. I'd wager that's one of the big
         | things that would compel me to buy a rack server. I recently
         | built a nice ATX desktop, fitted with a 5950X and everything,
         | and I found that the PiKVM project [0] does a pretty good job
         | at replacing that "integral" part of the server for me (you can
         | also look into an ASRock Rack PAUL [1], but good luck finding
         | one for sale right now.
         | 
         | > What makes even less sense is wanting use to use software
         | like vSphere or ESXi since its about 10x more complicated than
         | just using virt-manager/QEMU
         | 
         | A lot of people (not me, I end up using libvirt/QEMU as it
         | suits my needs) buy homelabs to work towards having hands-on
         | experience for their system administration job, which uses
         | ESXi/vSphere. It might also be for working on getting
         | certifications from VMware, in which case they really don't
         | have any choice but to use ESXi on their servers.
         | 
         | > Server hardware & software makes sense when it's not your
         | home because then you do need a remote access tool like iDRACK
         | 
         | Now, I addressed this earlier (laziness), but these BMC things
         | are very useful--you can monitor the health of various
         | components of your server, and I believe even update the BIOS
         | without stepping out of your chair. It makes administering a
         | homelab much easier, and even the Pi-KVM, a DIY option, I'm
         | pretty sure, doesn't have monitoring features. Plus, those DIY
         | solutions require wiring stuff into your ATX motherboard, which
         | can get janky and might put off people who want a turnkey
         | solution.
         | 
         | [0] https://pi-kvm.org/
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=P...
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | > So this is true, but the iDRAC/iLO on my big, loud server
           | has a virtual KVM feature
           | 
           | This is available on AMD Ryzen motherboards, too.
           | 
           | Just get one of ASRock's motherboards with the BMC controller
           | built-in: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.as
           | p?Model=X...
           | 
           | No need to mess with PiKVM or add-in cards. It's a server
           | board with KVM management that works out of the box with
           | Ryzen processors. It might need a BIOS update to support your
           | 5950X, but it will work.
        
             | kaladin-jasnah wrote:
             | Yeah, I know about those ASRock boards, but they're more
             | expensive than the rudimentary Pi-KVM solution I have right
             | now (a 35 dollar Pi and a 12 dollar HDMI capture dongle; I
             | would use wake-on-lan for powering the board on... if my
             | MSI board's WoL worked). Also, not the one you linked, but
             | the newer B550 ASRock Rack boards are impossible to find
             | for sale--the only place I could find the B550 boards were
             | on wisp.net.au, and I don't live in Australia or New
             | Zealand so it wouldn't be cost effective. Perhaps I
             | should've opted for an X470 board, but it was "older" so I
             | was put off.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | KingMachiavelli wrote:
           | Yea that's true. ESXi/vSphere can be very relavent although I
           | found that it was easy enough to learn on the job. The real
           | complicated stuff of vSphere probably isn't going to come up
           | in a homelab but if experience is necessary to get the job
           | then it's worth it.
           | 
           | pi-kvm looks very nice. I would really like to not have to
           | use iDRACK or pay the license fee.
           | 
           | Normal ATX motherboards do lack a lot of features. I'm not
           | sure why none of the normal mobos don't just use LVFS [1] to
           | update the BIOS but luckily they can read the update file
           | directly off the vfat EFI partition so pi-kvm would solve
           | that. I think every modern ATX motherboard also supports UEFI
           | network boot so you could setup a simple DHCP+iPXE server for
           | onboarding machines.
           | 
           | [1] https://fwupd.org/
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > Rack mount hardware is almost always expensive, loud, and
         | power hungry.
         | 
         | Buying old rack-mount server hardware for home use is almost
         | always a mistake. Old server hardware may feel cheap when you
         | see an old dual-socket rack mount server on eBay with hardware
         | that was fast 8 years ago, but you can probably meet or exceed
         | the performance with something like a cheap 8-core Ryzen.
         | 
         | Rack mount servers are also exceptionally loud. Unless you love
         | the noise of small, high-RPM server fans, you don't want rack
         | mount server hardware in your house.
         | 
         | And don't forget the power bill. Some old servers idle at
         | hundreds of watts, which will add up over the several years you
         | leave it running. 24/7 server hardware is a good example of
         | where it makes sense to be mindful of power consumption.
         | 
         | > What makes even less sense is wanting use to use software
         | like vSphere or ESXi since its about 10x more complicated than
         | just using virt-manager/QEMU.
         | 
         | I disagree. ESXi is actually extremely easy to use, as long as
         | you pick compatible hardware up front. The GUI isn't perfect,
         | but it's intuitive enough that I feel confident clicking around
         | to accomplish what I need instead of looking up a tutorial
         | first.
        
           | beerandt wrote:
           | I've always ignored advice even people say somethings too
           | hard or not worth it, and pretty much never regret it.
           | 
           | I absolutely regret trying to get a used rack mount server
           | running.
           | 
           | The combination of steep learning curve from workstations to
           | server hardware, plus parts that were failing but tested ok,
           | made for an extremely difficult path to troubleshooting and
           | getting it running right.
           | 
           | And that's before you get to the quirk's of getting it to
           | boot and installing an OS and drivers and software.
           | 
           | I love it now that it works, but it easily took 100x the time
           | (yes 100x) and probably 2-2.5x the total expected cost
           | getting it to that point.
           | 
           | Not counting the additional AC unit I installed to keep it
           | (somewhat) quieter.
           | 
           | I usually expect one or two aspects of my projects to have
           | unexpected roadblocks, but for this it was issues with what
           | seemed like every single step.
           | 
           | It's eventual replacement will be factory new.
        
         | p_j_w wrote:
         | >What makes even less sense is wanting use to use software like
         | vSphere or ESXi since its about 10x more complicated than just
         | using virt-manager/QEMU.
         | 
         | I always just assumed it was as a learning experience. When I
         | was in my 20s, I didn't try to get Apache, qmail, and bind
         | running because it was practical for me, I wanted a marketable
         | skill. There are lucrative jobs out there for people who know
         | these technologies.
        
           | R0b0t1 wrote:
           | Best to avoid vSphere/ESXi in that case. I learned using qemu
           | and was able to step into many roles immediately, including
           | some VMware ones. The Linux/qemu/Xen ones pay better.
        
           | awat wrote:
           | That was my experience as well. Home labs seem to be cyclical
           | for a lot people including myself. Started with a big
           | overkill rack to learn technologies, and now I'm down to a 10
           | inch desk rack that is ATX case size with just a few things
           | to run my network and small VMs.
        
           | KingMachiavelli wrote:
           | The application side is a more understandable. There are lots
           | of reasons to know and use apache, postfix, etc.
           | 
           | As far as learning goes, if you really want to work in
           | enterprise IT then vSphere is good to know but if you are
           | willing to learn things on your own then you might as well
           | learn kubernetes, docker, etc.
           | 
           | Knowing things like vSphere is cool & perhaps useful but it
           | also hides the how things work. If you want to know and
           | understand things it is better to stick to the open source &
           | interact directly with KVM and Xen. Like you wouldn't use
           | cPanel to learn how a LAMP stack works.
        
         | aftbit wrote:
         | > Rack mount hardware is almost always expensive, loud, and
         | power hungry.
         | 
         | It really depends on the particular hardware. I recently picked
         | up an R720 with 128GB of memory and dual E5-2670v1 for $450 on
         | eBay. It idles at 120W (about the same as my brand new Ryzen
         | 5950X desktop). It is not much louder than my old air-cooled
         | 8700K consumer PC. Of course, it's not much faster either, and
         | it's definitely slower than my Ryzen.
         | 
         | I bought it to learn how to use iDRAC and practice ZFS with 10x
         | $20 1GB 10k RPM SAS drives. Also maybe to give Proxmox a try.
         | All of my practical home-prod stuff runs on an old i5 desktop,
         | not my rack servers.
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | > I just have never seen the point of building a home lab like
         | this.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38ApYaywLzs
         | 
         | I have to pay PG&E rates for power ($$$) so I'm a big fan of
         | lower-power hardware for a system I'm going to leave on 24/7,
         | e.g. my 25W-TDP 1U racked 8-core ECC-equipped Atom server built
         | on this board:
         | https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/A2SDi-8C+...
        
         | PaulWaldman wrote:
         | >What makes even less sense is wanting use to use software like
         | vSphere or ESXi since its about 10x more complicated than just
         | using virt-manager/QEMU.
         | 
         | I disagree. Assuming your example of a single ATX desktop, ESXi
         | really is easy to setup and modern versions provide a graphical
         | web client. This assumes you're staying away from vSAN,
         | vMotion, and iSCSI storage.
        
           | kazen44 wrote:
           | but, assuming you are learning the vmware stack because of
           | employment. Not knowing things like vsan, ISCSI and vmotion
           | makes your lab nearly worthless.
           | 
           | Learning vsphere and esxi properly requires atleast a
           | decently sized cluster, especially if you start throwing NSX
           | in the mix.
        
         | deeblering4 wrote:
         | The lenovo "tiny" hardware recommended in the article is really
         | ideal. Its essentially laptop components in a micro case (no
         | hid/battery/screen), they even are powered by a laptop style
         | external DC adapter.
         | 
         | They are affordable, quiet, powerful (modern x86_64 with basic
         | gpu) and light on power usage.
         | 
         | I run a pair of m92p myself.
        
           | KingMachiavelli wrote:
           | The downside to these small form factor kit PCs is that then
           | you are very connectivity limited. You can't use it to build
           | a NAS directly or GPU connected VMs, etc.
           | 
           | They are quite good as a cheap thin client that you use to
           | access your more powerful hardware. As hardware ages it tends
           | to lack some of the nice feature's like dual 4K@60Hz output,
           | thunderbolt, etc. so having a new but cheap/lowpower machine
           | helps.
        
             | deeblering4 wrote:
             | Thats true. This model has just one small expansion slot so
             | you have to be clever. But its fine for general purpose
             | compute.
             | 
             | Yeah realistically NAS is out, but thats probably ok. I
             | mean NAS is not a great fit for most general purpose
             | computers. In a pinch you could go usb-3 jbod or something.
             | But personally I think it'd be better to go with either
             | specifically storage oriented hardware, or a scale out
             | filesystem on top of a cheap cluster, something like
             | odroid-hc2.
             | 
             | Personally I like to keep things compartmentalized even at
             | home. So my NAS is a dedicated (off the shelf) system, and
             | the lenovo mini servers mount it via NFS/CIFS.
        
         | Steltek wrote:
         | Yes! Companies refresh Dells pretty often and you can find an
         | i7 for not much money on eBay. Buy two to double up the RAM. If
         | you know the right people at a company, you could get them for
         | free even.
         | 
         | Home labs aren't about millions of hits. It's a playground.
        
         | bradstewart wrote:
         | I had more space in my network rack than near my desk, so I
         | bought a cheap Rosewill rackmountable ATX case, and rebuilt my
         | old desktop into it (since I pretty much only use my laptop
         | these days).
         | 
         | But I agree that buying old Dell servers for home use is rather
         | silly at this point.
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | Right? Obviously, everyone should do their thing. But I suppose
         | the tiny tiny "issue" I might have would be - I kind of feel
         | like this reinforces the idea that "having server things in the
         | house is big and complex."
         | 
         | So I encourage everyone who does this also tells the newbs, "I
         | mean, you could also just slap linux on that old computer in
         | the corner and do 95% of what I"m doing here, BUT MINE WILL
         | LOOK COOLER."
        
       | User23 wrote:
       | UPS plus a generator is a must have if you live someplace with
       | severe weather.
        
       | sgarland wrote:
       | This is a good, if not opinionated, guide. And to be fair,
       | r/homelab and its ilk are so full of options that it's easy to
       | become overwhelmed.
       | 
       | Personally, I settled on Supermicro because they're modular, and
       | don't care what brand of stuff you throw in them (HP is notorious
       | for spinning fans to turbo if you put non-HP disks into them),
       | although I may be picking up two Dells to complement the one I
       | have for a Proxmox HA/Ceph cluster.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | I love Dell. IDRAC is killer.
        
           | sgarland wrote:
           | The HTML5 interface is definitely very nice. I haven't had a
           | chance to use Supermicro's HTML5 IPMI, as I have an X9 board,
           | and to my knowledge the minimum support for it is X10.
        
             | sjackso wrote:
             | I have a little experience with both the old and new
             | Supermicro stuff. The new x10 IPMI experience is a lot like
             | the old x9 java app experience, except you don't have to
             | dig out an ancient computer to make it work. (Which feels
             | great by comparison!)
        
         | croutonwagon wrote:
         | I dont run server anything.
         | 
         | I have dell 7050's running a VMware/virtualization lab. They
         | can have 64GB of ram and can handle anything i throw at them.
         | Not iKVM though. But i just walk across the room and hook up a
         | monitor the one or two times a year i need to.
         | 
         | Honestly Synology has been the best godsend. I was a SAN admin
         | in a previous life. I have run freenas, openfiler, openfiler in
         | HA, linux+NFS+iSCSI etc over the years. Synology generally
         | makes it simple and totally integrated and allows me to play
         | with other things rather than getting storage working.
        
       | youngtaff wrote:
       | Serve the Home did a fab set of reviews on the different SFF
       | machines and how useful they are for a homelab
       | 
       | https://www.servethehome.com/?s=tinyminimicro
        
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