[HN Gopher] The only skin care that works? science video respons...
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       The only skin care that works? science video response (2020)
        
       Author : olalonde
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2021-08-23 04:47 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (labmuffin.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (labmuffin.com)
        
       | westcort wrote:
       | Lanolin plus retinol was what one youthful looking expert in the
       | field used. They looked decades younger than they were.
        
         | make3 wrote:
         | how one individual looks means literally nothing. do they have
         | research / guarantees on large samples for the individual
         | products / delivery methods, etc, is what matters.
         | 
         | Like others have said, I would like to know products OP
         | actually does recommend, as they seem to have proper reasoning
        
       | NonContro wrote:
       | After a decade of struggle with skin conditions, what works for
       | me:
       | 
       | - Eliminate all foods that contain added sugar, including milk
       | (lactose)
       | 
       | - Have cold/lukewarm showers, every 2nd day
       | 
       | - Use a rough washcloth and Nivea Sensitive Men's facewash
       | 
       | - Occasionally use anti-dandruff Ketaconazole shampoo, but
       | otherwise a 'natural' shampoo and conditioner without Sodium
       | Lauryl Sulfate
       | 
       | - Wash face each night before bed with warm water. Use the
       | washcloth once, then wash in 95c water
       | 
       | - Change bedsheets every 5 days, wash pillows and quilts every ~2
       | months (all on hot)
       | 
       | - Moisturise face after shower with beard oil. Water-based
       | moisturisers don't last.
       | 
       | - Minimise ejaculation instances, to conserve zinc and other
       | minerals
        
         | tleb_ wrote:
         | With so many solutions, how could you be sure each one has an
         | important role?
        
           | hunterb123 wrote:
           | Basically all these things keep the oil off your face, your
           | skin healthy, and your pores closed.
        
         | Bellamy wrote:
         | Fucking brilliant.
        
         | plexman wrote:
         | Ketoconazole blocks hormone steroid synthesis and reduces
         | testosterone levels.
        
           | morsch wrote:
           | When used externally?
        
         | bendtb wrote:
         | Could masturbation be the cause of skin problems in teenagers
         | :-) ?
        
         | kongolongo wrote:
         | Not sure about the ejaculation point. Especially with zinc, the
         | amounts released from ejaculation are far less than the rda and
         | the same is also true with the other trace minerals present in
         | semen. Even if we account for multiple ejaculations per day,
         | diet contributes much more to any possible mineral imbalances
         | than ejaculation could. You really can't out ejaculate even
         | just a single day worth of zinc rda food intake. At ~3% of the
         | rda per ejaculation that's ~33 ejaculations.
        
           | hnacct0310304 wrote:
           | It's about the overall system. If the man has a full sack,
           | his body won't be utilizing its top-notch resources to
           | replenish itself, making sure it is always at-the-ready. Once
           | restocked, the resources devoted to that unique assembly line
           | can be applied to repair and enhance operations.
           | 
           | Having to arm that legion of competitive swimmers is an
           | energetic undertaking of no small measure and no small
           | importance -- quite the opposite, actually. That is why
           | fasting and exercise are effective ways to tamp down one's
           | sexual impulses. Well, avoiding stimulation (visual and
           | otherwise) can also help tame our more primal energies.
           | 
           | [[[ Also, the GP failed to mention exercising and avoiding
           | the consumption of refined oils as other ways to keep the
           | skin less clogged and infected. ]]]
           | 
           | Regardless, semen retention is a way for a man to keep his
           | body burning less quickly through our molecular environment,
           | both internally and externally. The old Taoist texts (IIRC)
           | teach 60 or 80 drops of blood are required to produce a drop
           | of semen, and some significant amount of food to create a
           | drop of blood. Stem the loss and the pipeline backs up, in a
           | good way, so long as the man doesn't become an unbearable
           | ahole, but that's related to self-control via self-evolution
           | of the ego combined with the amount of stimulation they
           | must/choose-to endure.
        
         | imwillofficial wrote:
         | Thank you for this. A well thought out response.
        
         | dillondoyle wrote:
         | You had me until the last one ;)
         | 
         | Does anyone have science on specifically sugar? I find that
         | correlation too (only with lots of cheap candy/bad greasy
         | food), but feels kind of Goop-like bs. what is the mechanism
         | for that to affect bacteria on the face?
        
           | s9w wrote:
           | Instant dismissal of the most massive unnatural behavior done
           | on earth with literally a mountain of (animal) studies
           | backing it up.
        
           | Sunspark wrote:
           | I present to you honey. Honey never goes bad, it has anti-
           | fungal and anti-bacterial properties and for this reason is
           | why it also helps with wound healing.
        
           | plexman wrote:
           | I believe that the authority in sugar is DR. Robert Lustig.
           | He has a great book called Fat Chance, there he explains in
           | details how sugar is a toxin and correlates with a plethora
           | of diseases. Great read from a true hero that saved many
           | obese kids during his practice.
        
             | Sunspark wrote:
             | Sugar is more than that, it's also an addictive drug. Try
             | quitting sugar and see how far you get.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nazgulnarsil wrote:
       | The author does have a simple recommendation list
       | https://labmuffin.com/basic-skincare-guide-product-recommend...
        
         | stingrae wrote:
         | simple? that has like 25 products on it.
        
           | camel_Snake wrote:
           | And the first dozen or so all belong in the same category -
           | cleanser.
           | 
           | She just lists out different options for different sub-
           | categories. Dry skin might prefer a different medium than
           | oily skin.
           | 
           | Overall there were 3 categories in that list - cleanser,
           | moisturizer, and sunscreen. Pick one from each of the
           | category that suits you.
        
       | evo_9 wrote:
       | From what I've research the best way to improve your skin quality
       | is from the cells out; surface creams are just treating the top
       | most layer of your skin and feel nice but don't generally do all
       | that much.
       | 
       | If you want to improve your skin from the cells out you can take
       | something like this, which is what I take(Collagen Powder
       | Protein):
       | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LXADO9Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
       | 
       | Here is a doctor I follow that did a thorough breakdown of the
       | research available about a year ago:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iydUMEoO-6w
        
       | hbcondo714 wrote:
       | > One group of ingredient that ASAP Science does recommend,
       | alongside antioxidants and retinol, are palmitoyl polypeptides -
       | if you use all three then you're checking all the boxes for
       | science-backed anti-aging skincare.
       | 
       | That paragraph sums it up but according to the article not all
       | retinoids are the same. Read on for more scientific information
       | on what's out there for your specific skin care needs.
        
         | icebergwarrior wrote:
         | I wish they made some recommendations and application schedule.
         | That statement alone makes is very hard to figure out which
         | products are legit and which are not.
         | 
         | The average reader (me) just wants to buy 3 products, use them
         | nightly, and move on, without doing hours of research.
        
           | e_y_ wrote:
           | From what I remember from Labmuffin's past articles, she
           | doesn't give a specific nightcare routine because it varies
           | based on the individual, so some trial and error is required.
           | 
           | Maybe that's a bit of a cop out, but if there were a perfect
           | combination then there wouldn't need to be so many different
           | products (marketing aside, even the same formulations of
           | active ingredients are available as washes, creams, lotions,
           | serums, peels, etc).
        
         | mikedilger wrote:
         | There are other non-ingredient things that matter: limiting sun
         | exposure, cleaning the oil/dirt, and using something to
         | maintain hydration (glycerin, aqueous cream, ... petroleum
         | jelly in extreme cases).
        
       | sunshineforever wrote:
       | Retinol!
       | 
       | available at dollar tree for one dollar!
        
       | yawaworht1978 wrote:
       | I need something to reasonably explain to my wife that all these
       | things don't work, the brand indoctrination is profound and the
       | credit card bills hefty. Any good study on all the things that
       | don't work?
        
         | v3rt3x wrote:
         | I second this.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | goostavos wrote:
         | I think if you're coming at it from an angle where you're going
         | to sit your wife down on the couch, show her some studies, and
         | then wait for the "thank you for clarifying my thinking!" to
         | roll in, you're doomed to fail / upset your SO.
         | 
         | I think the personality types you generally find in tech, which
         | are so focused on what we can produce / output, don't
         | understand that _consumption_ is a perfectly valid hobby or
         | interest for people to have.
         | 
         | I'd wager very few people actually buy the miracle claims on
         | the products. I think they instead just find it fun. I gave my
         | SO a lot of crap before realizing that some people just find
         | stewardship of an object enjoyable. There's a whole subculture
         | related to it. The ownership, displaying, and usage _is_ the
         | hobby.
        
           | mynameishere wrote:
           | More like, people want the illusion that they can make
           | themselves more attractive. If you say the truth, "Well dear,
           | your skin's current appearance is a combination of genetics
           | and avoiding the sun," then you've basically said, "You can't
           | undo the past, therefore all hope is lost. Also, you're
           | stupid for thinking this cream can help you."
        
           | mr-wendel wrote:
           | This comment is a wonderful template to consider. In my
           | personal context, this would be about leaving a certain very-
           | American religion and being the more-or-less first to take
           | plunge: you really wanna share your "greater truth" and help
           | those close to you unburden themselves by letting go of
           | something so obviously false.
           | 
           | You really can't "red pill" people, and the closer they are
           | to you the lower the chances of success.
           | 
           | You can, however, ask (non leading) questions and listen. If
           | you can't start by being curious, don't expect them to make
           | that leap first... and thats really where you have to start
           | before you can change your mind.
        
           | nostromo wrote:
           | I doubt the majority of people using expensive skin care
           | creams are actually doing it just for fun and not for any
           | actual benefit.
           | 
           | It's more common to hear people say, "it probably isn't doing
           | much, but you never know." This is similar to people buying
           | lottery tickets, "I doubt I'll win, but you never know."
           | 
           | "I just enjoy it, ok?" is probably what someone would say to
           | get rid of a pestering husband. :)
        
           | artichokes wrote:
           | > consumption is a perfectly valid hobby
           | 
           | No it is not.
        
             | bigfudge wrote:
             | I agree with you but perhaps explain why. Taking pleasure
             | in things we use seems healthy, but fast fashion etc and
             | general consumer culture in the west seem psychologically
             | suboptimal and are environmentally disastrous.
        
           | satellite2 wrote:
           | Additionally, most products contain water and glycerin which
           | has evidence regarding skin hydration.
           | 
           | So most product will produce a small effect.
           | 
           | On top of that they smell good (rich), which is probably also
           | an important part of the experience.
        
           | Goronmon wrote:
           | _I 'd wager very few people actually buy the miracle claims
           | on the products. I think they instead just find it fun. I
           | gave my SO a lot of crap before realizing that some people
           | just find stewardship of an object enjoyable. There's a whole
           | subculture related to it. The ownership, displaying, and
           | usage _is_ the hobby. _
           | 
           | An alternative is that bringing up this type of topic ends up
           | sounding like some form of:
           | 
           | "Hey, you know all that stuff that stresses you out everyday?
           | Well, regarding one of the less important ones, you are doing
           | it totally wrong and I want you to correct yourself."
           | 
           | Even you are technically right, there is very little upside
           | to bringing it up, especially out of nowhere. Assuming, of
           | course, they aren't doing anything wildly dangerous.
        
           | totetsu wrote:
           | More than a hobby, it's like a gender roleplaying ritual for
           | identity construction. ( And class I guess if it's expensive.
           | Same reason me think golf is fun)
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Because the science is so hard to do, the products are
         | basically entertainment. If you think of it that way it's hard
         | for me to get too upset -- when it's affordable.
         | 
         | Some products are flat out dangerous though, and regulation is
         | scant.
         | 
         | When my MIL was dying of cancer eventually then sent her home
         | and "prescribed" various homeopathic concoctions (German
         | insurance covered all this). At first I was appalled but
         | eventually realized that as there was nothing left to do for
         | her, the homeopathic bottles of water were a form of palliative
         | care: giving her a sense of agency. I came to realize that it
         | was a kindness.
         | 
         | Wearing makeup is often less critical, but given how important
         | appearance is in culture, literature, and stereotyping,
         | providing a sense of agency can be of enormous psychological
         | value.
        
         | hellbannedguy wrote:
         | I've only seen one person venture into this battlefield, and it
         | was a comedian doing a bit.
         | 
         | The guy is a very funny Aussie. It's Jim Jeffries. His bit went
         | my girl comes to bed with oily skin from those pricy creams.
         | 
         | I tell her look at my face. Not a wrinkle, and I just use soap.
         | 
         | Anyway, when I saw a dermatologist in high school, for years it
         | seemed? He would only recommend glycerin soap, and Certaphil if
         | you have very dry skin. Benzoyl peroxide, erythromycin roll on
         | lotion, and I was on erythromycin pills for bad acne. Think
         | most pores blocked up. He detested dermatologists who sold out,
         | and developed their own phony beauty creams.
         | 
         | This was when some doctors had integrity--80's? And it was
         | starting to change.
        
           | munchbunny wrote:
           | My experience with dermatologists has been the opposite. Over
           | the last 2 decades, the dermatologists I've seen mostly just
           | recommended pretty basic stuff like gentler unscented soaps,
           | moisturizers in general, or Vaseline/Aquaphor. That's not
           | including actual prescription drugs of course.
        
         | nostromo wrote:
         | Check out Examine, they also cover skin care topics.
         | 
         | https://examine.com/topics/wrinkles/
         | 
         | https://examine.com/topics/skin-quality/
         | 
         | https://examine.com/topics/skin-elasticity/
         | 
         | ... among others.
         | 
         | Unfortunately there's not a lot of great science out there,
         | which is crazy given that the cosmetics industry is nearing
         | $0.5T annually.
        
           | Bombthecat wrote:
           | I guess... Because the results would be devastating...
        
         | distantaidenn wrote:
         | I guess it depends on what type of skincare they are doing. My
         | ex (Korean), had a 7 or 8 step routine each night. This is
         | fairly normal for young women in Korea.
         | 
         | She explained it to me as such: it wasn't so much an anti-aging
         | regime, as a protection from the elements regime -- in
         | particular pollution, as South Korea has some trouble with
         | seasonal fine dust. I suppose it makes sense. And for what its
         | worth, her skin did have a healthy, shiny, glow after applying
         | all the layers -- which is also part of the appeal.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | If it's not causing harm, I'd just leave it. They probably like
         | using the products and studies aren't going to change that.
        
         | ornornor wrote:
         | Look at it this way: if it really had the long lasting effects
         | that the ads wants you to believe it has, then it would be a
         | medicine and wouldn't be sold OTC.
         | 
         | Because it barely does anything at all and certainly won't
         | change your skin overtime, it doesn't need FDA approval, isn't
         | prescription only, and isn't a medicine.
         | 
         | It's all marketing that makes you think it's medical, but they
         | never say it. They just advertise it with white lab coats,
         | sciency sounding weasel words, mathematical looking curves and
         | graphs... but it's just overpriced and over marketed cream.
         | Your brain is tricked into connecting the dots and concluding
         | it's medicine but they'll never say it outright because they
         | can't because it's not.
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | There are plenty of effective skin care products with active
           | FDA approved ingredients that are also OTC. Salicylic acid
           | and benzoyl peroxide are two of them.
        
           | nkozyra wrote:
           | > Look at it this way: if it really had the long lasting
           | effects that the ads wants you to believe it has, then it
           | would be a medicine and wouldn't be sold OTC.
           | 
           | I think this is a little simplistic. The FDA isn't inherently
           | interested in anything effective being deemed a drug, even
           | when it comes to oral supplementation.
           | 
           | Plenty of non-medicine, non-FDA-regulated substances that
           | work like medicines in some situations and do have real,
           | repeatable effects are sold OTC.
           | 
           | Plenty of actual medicines that are FDA-regulated are sold
           | OTC.
        
       | ProjectArcturis wrote:
       | I'm at the age where I should start taking better care of my
       | skin, but when it comes to reading up on the science and then
       | translating that into deciding on products to buy, my eyes just
       | glaze over. Did anyone put together a simple list of
       | scientifically supported products that I can smear on my face?
        
         | koolhaas wrote:
         | Science supports that the sun really damages your skin, so you
         | should absolutely use a sunscreen or SPF 30 moisturizer every
         | morning.
         | 
         | Digging deeper into types of ingredients that block sun, things
         | get a bit more tricky. In general I've read dermatologists say
         | "physical" sun screen ingredients are best, like zinc oxide,
         | because they aren't absorbed through your skin like a
         | "chemical" ingredient. But they also leave your skin looking
         | more white.
         | 
         | And beyond that, just wash your face in the morning and night
         | with a face wash product, not bar soap. Something simple from
         | Neutrogena.
        
         | barcoder wrote:
         | Good diet and keeping hydrated are probably more important
        
       | mlok wrote:
       | Related :
       | 
       | Open Beauty Facts : https://world.openbeautyfacts.org/
       | 
       | This database of products is a sister project of Open Food Facts
       | : https://world.openfoodfacts.org/
       | 
       | Many apps are based on these two DB.
        
         | css wrote:
         | I searched for a ton of products I use on this site and found
         | no results-I find EWG[0] to have a much better dataset.
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/
        
           | tablespoonsruby wrote:
           | EWG is a source of misinformation:
           | https://www.theecowell.com/blog/a-case-against-the-ewg
        
             | css wrote:
             | This article cherry-picks a few items and discussed how EWG
             | interprets the ingredient safety. It does not follow that
             | all of EWG is misinformation; dismissing the useful
             | database of ingredients, animal testing statuses, and other
             | data is itself misinformation.
        
       | funkaster wrote:
       | I haven't found anything other than anecdotal accounts but I
       | would love to see a study/more detailed article about Mother Dirt
       | products[0] - I found them super interesting because of the
       | different approach.
       | 
       | [0]: https://motherdirt.com/
        
       | hereme888 wrote:
       | The most proven anti-aging for skin, that I'm aware of, is
       | prevention of UV rays damaging the skin.
       | 
       | Sunscreens are amazing "anti-aging" formulas.
       | 
       | Interesting fact: sunscreens are not proven to prevent melanoma;
       | only basal cell carcinoma and other skin cancers. Beware I said
       | "proven". They may, but evidence is not there yet, as of last
       | time I checked.
        
         | dade_ wrote:
         | Especially sunscreen on overcast days. UVA doesn't cause
         | tanning or sunburn, but it does pass through clouds and damages
         | the skin.
        
           | gpt5 wrote:
           | +1. Some of the worse burns I had were during overcast days.
        
       | normaldist wrote:
       | So are there OTC retinol products that work better than others?
        
         | camel_Snake wrote:
         | I just recently adapted a skincare routine but I've been happy
         | with The Ordinary. Retinols can be very irritating so the
         | general recommendation I've heard is to start at a smaller %
         | and use maybe once a week to start, working your way up in
         | frequency then concentration.
        
         | Eric_WVGG wrote:
         | This isn't a particularly scientific review, but Amber A'Lee
         | Frost wrote an amusing bit about the retinoid A313 Pommade.
         | "skincare is what the French have instead of a space program."
         | I picked up a tube, it seems pretty great.
         | 
         | https://theoutline.com/post/8395/french-skincare-is-the-futu...
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-23 23:01 UTC)