[HN Gopher] Houses in Japan are going for as little as $500
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Houses in Japan are going for as little as $500
Author : prostoalex
Score : 205 points
Date : 2021-08-22 15:28 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.travelpirates.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.travelpirates.com)
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Japan is really good about land use, and thus speculative land
| ownership without development is more often a bad idea. This is a
| funny case where dealing with the externalities _lowers_ the
| price, as the thing being sold becomes less attractive by other
| means.
|
| Good job, Japan.
| suction wrote:
| I'd recommend you read "Dogs & Demons" by Alex Kerr, which is
| specifically about land use in modern Japan.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| It looks like one of its criticism is too much construction.
| 20 years ago, was an overbuilt shrinking countryside an issue
| yet?
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Numerous youtube videos on the trials and tribulations. Watch a
| few before even considering this rash move.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/peori... -
| Real estate investors from across the U.S. are buying homes in
| Peoria, Ill., sight unseen - Washington Post
|
| tldr: if a deal seems to good to be true ...
| srvmshr wrote:
| Being a Japanese resident (PR) now, I did look up this option for
| a summer home in the woods (Akita, Aichi-ken etc). This is what I
| learnt, which this article fails to mention:
|
| * Akiya houses come with an agreement to reside. Not just be a
| summer home. Their goal is to repopulate the countryside.
|
| * You have to cultivate any farmland that comes with the deed.
| You cannot sell it without special permission. There is a whole
| lot of paperwork to deal with such situations.
|
| * Most old Akiya will have strong regulation not to change the
| frontage. It isn't permitted. Architecturally these have to be
| consistent. Building permits are very stringent.
|
| * Land tax is levied the day from purchase - not from the day of
| moving in.
|
| * Residents have to contribute to local development funds which
| take care of Matsuris etc. You like it or not, local government
| will knock on your door with a bill.
|
| * Connectivity is poor. Cell reception outside NTT can be spotty.
| Internet is even harder.
|
| * Language proficiency is a must. No one speaks English. Not even
| the local government officials.
|
| * House will need a significant amount of renovation. With the
| stringent restrictions - anywhere between 100 & 200 grand
| (depending on the disrepair)
|
| I eventually vetoed my SO's plan. For a little more (and lesser
| space obviously), we can live in Tokyo suburbs.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| > Residents have to contribute to local development funds which
| take care of Matsuris etc. You like it or not, local government
| will knock on your door with a bill.
|
| I own a home in a large Japanese city and we have to pay that
| to our neighborhood association. It's not that much and the
| festival is good fun
| slownews45 wrote:
| If the goal was really to repopulate the countryside some quick
| changes might make this much more appealing.
|
| Manor house model.
|
| If you want an old time feel, allow for full fudel style
| living. This would mean.
|
| * Allow frontpage / living space be expanded keeping same style
| - so main home could add some outbuildings.
|
| * Allow owner to hire out labor for the farming using
| outbuildings.
|
| * Allow owner to use this as a summar house as long as at least
| 4 other people lived on property full time (farming /
| caretakers etc)
|
| * Explicitly allow (screened) sat dishes / 4G LTE extenders for
| internet access if needed or get fiber to property.
|
| Modern digital nomad modal.
|
| * Go big on connectivity. Allow easy renovations behind
| existing look (ie, upgrade to modern comfort).
|
| * Make it VERY easy to live in these including quick visas etc
| for folks with means and only a 1 year residence requirement
| etc.
|
| * Allow digital nomads to easily bring partners / kids etc.
|
| Commercial development model.
|
| * Remove building / zoning restrictions. Ie, ugly modern houses
| OK. Tear down and replace OK. Etc. Let creativity flourish
| (including some horrible / weird / crazy houses or tiny shacks
| etc).
|
| There is a reason folks are moving out of these areas - the
| tradeoffs are not worth it (currently). Maybe tweak those
| tradeoffs?
|
| Japan is an INCREDIBLY safe country.
| aledalgrande wrote:
| They will never do this because yes, they want to repopulate
| the countryside, but they don't want to have any change in
| terms of culture and tradition.
| [deleted]
| antisthenes wrote:
| Honestly, all of this can be summed up as:
|
| "trying to have your cake and eat it too".
|
| Nothing more than stubborn/incompetent administration of a
| dying village refusing to let go of the ways of thinking and
| lifestyle that existed 50 years ago.
|
| That's not to say the lifestyle is bad or obsolete. It may
| exist again 50, or 100, or 1000 years in the future. But it
| doesn't exist now, and if you want to actually attract people
| there and not do pointless virtue signaling, you have to change
| these conditions. Most of them are terrible disincentives.
| srvmshr wrote:
| Having outsiders settle in with their ways seems a threat to
| their heritage. Believe it or not, locals are dead serious
| about it.
|
| The Japanese society functions with a purpose of blending in,
| not standing out. If you play strictly by their rules,
| perhaps life is easy. Else you are always the outsider
| gaikokujin, who is looked at suspiciously very instinctively.
| for1nner wrote:
| Time will only continue to reveal how unreasonable that
| mindset is.
|
| The population will continue to age and shrink, so cultural
| norms will _have_ to make way for that to ever change.
| antisthenes wrote:
| That's fine and I understand that these rules are aimed
| mostly at insiders, who are more willing to comply and have
| skin in the game of cultural heritage.
|
| And perhaps life really is easy. But as someone mentioned
| in the thread, spending $100-200k USD to renovate a
| property AND to basically change your career to a farmer is
| completely out of the question for 99.9% of the population.
|
| At beast you would get some incredibly wealthy hobbyists
| who adore Japanese cultural heritage, but judging their
| success realistically, it doesn't look like there's many
| takers, so my point still stands.
|
| Maybe the downvoters should put their money where their
| mouth is and go spend a few million on restoration of these
| properties.
| pcurve wrote:
| I agree... I'm shocked at how onerous the rules are.
|
| I wonder what the true market price of these places would be,
| without all these restrictions.
| samirillian wrote:
| While all these things are true, I've squatted in one of these
| houses, slept on the floor, tilled and made rows in the
| adjacent plot, got to know the neighbors, a mix of locals and
| hippies. It was my only experience in Japan, and it was one of
| the happiest times in my life. Now I'm not sure those hippies
| want me back, but damn if it wasn't a fucking dream.
| winter_blue wrote:
| Could you share more about this experience? How did this
| happen!?
|
| Were you fluent in Japanese when you moved there?
|
| Also, were these hippies young Japanese people, or young
| people from all over the world, or were they older
| Japanese/gaijin hippies?
| qwertygnu wrote:
| How did this come about?? Seems super random but awesome.
| isatty wrote:
| That sounds amazing (though the mukade alone make it a big
| nope for me), did you write about it anywhere else?
| andi999 wrote:
| 200 grand USD or Yen? If USD then you shd really consider Tokyo
| suburbs.
| srvmshr wrote:
| 200,000 USD.
|
| Y=200,000 is ~$2000. If it was that low, I will drop that
| money in without missing a beat.
| quotemstr wrote:
| The restrictions you've mentioned are pretty significant. How
| many people are taking advantage of this program?
| srvmshr wrote:
| Not many. The biggest bummer is having to permanently reside.
| There is no way out or fudging it. Since all residents
| (including citizens) have to register their resident card
| (which ties your insurance, taxes, legal residence etc),
| there isn't much of a way out. (You can't be in two places of
| course! And you can forfeit your acquisition or penalized if
| discovered, although I haven't heard any such case yet.).
|
| Think of zairyu (resident permit) as SSN with all personal
| details locked in.
| purple_ferret wrote:
| Most of these sound reasonable to me. The appeal of the
| Japanese countryside is tied up in all of these requirements.
| srvmshr wrote:
| I would not be keen to drop half of my life savings into
| living somewhere I don't remotely have control over. I am
| owning something to benefit my life & comfort, not contribute
| towards public charity.
|
| Having a charming weekend getaway is nice in rural Japan.
| Relocation & living full time with such restrictions in
| place? No thank you.
| purple_ferret wrote:
| If Japan had a more western investment and speculative
| mindset when it came to property/housing, maybe anything
| decent would cost much more and you'd be priced out anyway.
| fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
| It's not just a difference in mindset that prevents the
| homes from being valuable. The demographic pyramid and
| immigration rates mean these homes won't be in-demand in
| the future. So investors speculate that the value will
| stay low.
| aledalgrande wrote:
| Especially considering you're not free to sell your
| property if you get tired of it.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| I see repopulation of the rural areas in japan has precisely
| the same problems as "repopulation" of US rural areas has.
|
| What they need is immigration. Badly. Those are the most
| willing people to come and economically rural areas are cheaper
| and thus more affordable for immigrants.
|
| But the population that remains in rural areas is inflexible
| and strongly tied to ethnic identities.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Is there really huge influx of immigrants wanting to be
| farmers or living in rural villages with little connection to
| their own culture? What I have understood is that even
| refugees prefer bigger cities, with more modern work and
| communities from their own culture...
| [deleted]
| slim wrote:
| Man immigrants risk their lives on rafts and die by the
| thousands every year, just to have hope. Not a good life,
| just hope. They would be willing to work their ass of for a
| house and a farm.
| nwatson wrote:
| Out driving in North Carolina in what are seemingly
| "traditional rural" settings in the middle of nowhere I'll
| often come across signs reading "llanteria" (tire shop) or
| "Iglesia Evangelica" (Evangelical Church) in Spanish. At
| this point immigrants have reached most parts of the
| southeast U.S., rural and urban. BTW if you're ever in
| Hickory, NC there's a great Hmong restaurant with the
| hilarious name Duck 'n' Good Food.
|
| EDIT: spelling
| franciscop wrote:
| Very clickbait-y title; it's more like "rural abandoned houses in
| need of repair [...]", def not the central Kyoto depicted in the
| header image.
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| You can get castles (_chateaux_) cheap in France.
|
| But then you realize that you have to renovate them according to
| the local architecture regulations, often with artisanal
| materials (the roof for instance).
|
| I know a couple friends from Germany who inherited a castle and
| did not refuse the inheritage when they could . They were
| desperate when they realized how expensive this is.
| rcpt wrote:
| Yet three decades ago, thanks to insane fiscal policies that
| heavily incentivized land speculation, a few square km in Tokyo
| were worth as much as all of California.
|
| https://hbr.org/1990/05/power-from-the-ground-up-japans-land...
|
| To be honest 80s Japan doesn't seem too far off from current
| California tax law so maybe I'll be able to afford a house here
| in 30 years
| Aeolun wrote:
| With certain pre and post conditions.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| These don't have "minor" loopholes to renovation or occupation.
|
| Typically these will require the use of licensed craftsmen who
| can restore the building if they are the older style, and almost
| all will require 5-10 year occupation agreements and/or
| agreements to productively farm the land it comes with.
|
| Further, there are strict restrictions on ownership by
| foreigners, and most of the akiya bank properties aren't eligible
| last I looked. Those that are will have little to no internet,
| you will be an hour or more away from a decent sized city, and
| you'd better be fluent in Japanese because noone in these
| communities will be fluent in anything else. Even signage in many
| of these places is lacking the English foreigners that have
| traveled there will be used to.
|
| For reference I've lived in Japan, have a Japanese spouse, and my
| children are dual citizens. We have investigated this going on 15
| years now and it's just not something you'd want to take on, if
| you were able to, most of the time.
| [deleted]
| jimmaswell wrote:
| We could do with some strict rules on foreign ownership here in
| the US. Seems questionable when all the housing in a
| neighborhood is owned by Chinese investment firms.
| csomar wrote:
| So only US persons and companies can buy in the US right?
| That means Chinese investment firms can still buy but dude
| who is on some long-term visa can't.
|
| Either way, real estate should be a free market. In the same
| vein you can buy any real estate you like, a seller should be
| able to sell to any entity that's giving him the better
| price.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| 1. If I had it my way yes. We will revisit ownership laws
| in a few decades when most American citizens own their own
| homes, or at least the ones that want ownership.)
|
| 2. I would ban US corporations from buying homes as assets
| yesterday.
|
| 3. I would even put a limit on how many homes an individual
| could buy. Five sounds reasonable?
| csomar wrote:
| Yeah, messing with free markets. That has proved to work
| really well.
| SirHound wrote:
| Yeah, not messing with free markets. That has proved to
| work really well.
| jimmaswell wrote:
| I think real estate has proven to be somewhat of a market
| failure when so much is taken up by landlords and
| investment firms driving up prices without providing much
| or any value. The pandemic has only made this worse as big
| firms ride out the storms and buy even more land on the
| cheap to rent back out at an obscene profit.
|
| My parents used to pay $1000 a month in rent for a property
| that I know the taxes on amounted to maybe $3000 a year,
| and the landlord rarely did anything else than pay that
| tax. Sent a bargain basement repair guy out a few times to
| fix the heater maybe. That's 300% profit for nothing, pure
| rent seeking behavior. That's not good for society.
|
| More needs to be done to encourage individual home
| ownership and discourage people having no choice but to
| send a third to half of their income into a black hole
| every month.
| csomar wrote:
| > That's 300% profit for nothing, pure rent seeking
| behavior.
|
| The landlord suddenly woke up with a house in his name?
| He might be in the red as house prices / interest rates
| varies from person to person. No one knows.
|
| > That's not good for society.
|
| Let's create laws to transfer wealth from certain
| individuals to other individuals that fits our profile.
| That's good for "society".
| imtringued wrote:
| You mean land owners extorting the productive work out of
| the people that live near or on the land of that land
| owner? He did nothing to create the earth and he did
| nothing to conquer it.
|
| He can keep the building and usage rights to the land,
| but he should never own the land.
| oblio wrote:
| > The landlord suddenly woke up with a house in his name?
| He might be in the red as house prices / interest rates
| varies from person to person. No one knows.
|
| Well, have you heard of that old fashioned thing called
| feudalism? You know, with a certain land owning class?
|
| Now, the US didn't have feudalism, but let's say that due
| to family, someone in your distant past managed to get
| lucky and buy a ton of very valuable land. Or buy very
| cheap properties. At this point, your family is
| practically a lighter version of landed gentry.
|
| You'd be making each year a ton more than the property
| cost to build 60-80-whatever years ago, property taxes
| generally aren't that high, if the location is good
| people will live there even if the living conditions are
| crap (for example from lack of maintenance), etc.
|
| > Let's create laws to transfer wealth from certain
| individuals to other individuals that fits our profile.
| That's good for "society".
|
| Ummm... that's how taxes work. We generally transfer
| wealth from "certain individuals" (generally the well
| off, that can afford to have some of their wealth
| transferred), to "other individuals that fit our profile"
| (generally poor people, those without housing, etc.).
|
| And yeah, in case that was not a rhetorical comment, yes,
| it's good for society. It's literally how modern
| societies are built.
|
| Taxes are the price we pay for civilization.
| csomar wrote:
| No, taxes were to be paid for war, then infrastructure.
| It's only recently that taxes have been diverted to
| social welfare. I think the jury is still early on
| whether that will build civilization or result in its
| demise.
| imtringued wrote:
| Capitalism combined with the current money system creates
| a class of humans that cannot work and receive a living
| wage even if they wanted. It's the failures of capitalism
| and zero lower bound fiat that created the need of social
| welfare. The idea that social welfare is the cause of
| problems is completely absurd. It's just one of the
| hundreds of symptoms of a handful of core problems.
|
| For example, Germany is conducting an import deficit
| policy, meaning it is exporting more to Greece than it is
| importing from Greece leading to money flowing out of
| Greece. The capitalist answer is that the entire Greek
| population should move to Germany because that is where
| the jobs are. It's not just Greece, it also applies to
| every country that is poorer than Greece. We then get to
| enjoy the benefit of blaming the other nation for
| committing band aid policies like social welfare. Haha,
| they are so stupid, right?
|
| I can list more second or third order effects of a broken
| monetary system but you will probably think that the
| demise will stem from the symptoms.
| oblio wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Socialism_(Germany)
|
| 138 years and counting.
| csomar wrote:
| 138 is too short. It's only a few generations.
| imtringued wrote:
| We need a progressive land tax. Meaning people with a
| single property receive a low tax bill and large
| corporations with lots of land receive a much higher tax.
| I personally do not think this is optimal but it's
| politically impossible to do the correct thing of
| charging everyone the fair amount.
|
| At least this watered down version of a land value tax
| will hit large corporations. Property taxes apply to
| corporations and individuals equally, but there are more
| home owners so they will vote for a tax policy that
| benefits corporations.
| Hnrobert42 wrote:
| Probably the occupancy requirement would take care of the
| issue better.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| In my neighborhood, many are occupied by a non-english
| speaking person, or small family.
|
| (I'm not saying anything racist. I just know a few
| individuals whom shop at Safeway whom live in million plus
| homes that don't speak English. I feel we need more that a
| occupancy requirement. We need some hard requirements, a
| long with not allowing hedge funds to buy homes. This goes
| for American corporations too.)
| rfrey wrote:
| Some hard requirements that go beyond occupancy rules and
| forbidding hedge funds from buying houses.
|
| What are your suggestions?
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| Thanks. Out of curiosity, do you still live in Japan? Or, if
| not, what do you miss it the most?
| aero-glide2 wrote:
| Shouldn't be a problem with Starlink, $100/month for
| 50-100Mbps.
| marcinzm wrote:
| You mean except for the part where isn't not available in
| Japan right now.
| ctdonath wrote:
| By now before Starlink becomes available and a flood of
| people jump on the opportunity - happening soon.
| Karrot_Kream wrote:
| I know this is off-topic and not your fault in any way, but I'm
| tired of the "spousal perspective" on this site when it comes
| to East Asia. Somehow most of the East Asian perspectives we
| get here are partners of East Asian folks, despite East Asia
| having lots and lots of engineers.
| rayiner wrote:
| HN tends to be US-centric, and there are not a ton of
| Japanese immigrant engineers in the US last I checked. Some
| but not all that many. Most of the immigration from Japan to
| the US occurred generations ago. Plenty of Chinese people who
| chime in on these threads though.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| You're going to have to take what you can get on an English-
| speaking forum. Move to a Japanese forum and you can find all
| the Japanese perspectives you want.
| math-dev wrote:
| I understand your perspective. However the solution is for
| those native to East Asia to post, not non natives to post
| less. I agree that more viewpoints is better, just wanted to
| point that
| CobaltFire wrote:
| Does that make my perspective as someone who lived there
| invalid?
|
| In this case the "spousal perspective" is that we aren't
| subject to many of these barriers and we STILL aren't
| purchasing one due to the remaining barriers and issues.
| Karrot_Kream wrote:
| It most definitely does not, and as I said it's not your
| fault in any way. I would just appreciate more non-spousal
| perspectives, especially when it comes to things like
| Japanese nationalism where it helps to have a Japanese
| perspective.
| Archio wrote:
| Has it occurred to you that on an English-speaking board,
| posters in non-English speaking countries might be more
| likely to be spouses/expats? Just as the same would be true
| for Japanese speaking spouses on a Japanese board?
| jdhn wrote:
| I'm curious as to what the rules on foreign ownership are. Is
| it an outright ban, or can it be circumnavigated by having a
| Japanese lawyer draw up some sort of agreement where they are
| the owner, but the foreigner pays them $X a month, or something
| like that?
| rootsudo wrote:
| There are anti-dummy laws in Japan.
| henearkr wrote:
| Some estate agencies, who don't want to sell estate to a
| foreigner but would not openly say it, just let some other
| Japanese customer (who appeared suddenly) take the precedence
| and buy instead of you.
|
| Source: unfortunately I can relate...
| jowsie wrote:
| It doesn't even have to be that underhanded. Many rental
| agencies will ask house owners if they want foreigners or
| not, it's a simple tick box.
| henearkr wrote:
| Yes but in this case it's to sell it not to rent it.
|
| I can (almost) understand that you don't want foreigners
| in the apartment that you own, but in this case they
| don't even want to receive money -- the same amount --
| from foreign buyers, and in this case it's clearly
| because they want to protect their village from "being
| invaded". Yes pretty ridiculous, but unfortunately very
| common.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| These require residence at the property, and if you can't get
| a residency permit (rather difficult for the amount of time
| needed by this agreement) then it's a defacto no foreigners
| rule for these homes.
| rootsudo wrote:
| There is no strict laws on foreign ownership, most of the time
| this falls under the idea that people/foreigners think owning
| land gives you a right to reside in the country. It does not.
|
| Then not knowing procedures or having a Hanko is extremely
| detrimental to doing any paperwork in Japan.
|
| Internet is not an issue, NTT will give you internet within 3
| months, and there is always unlimited 4g/5g subscriptions.
|
| Being in the Inaka is an experience itself, and you need to
| know the language. I agree.
| derefr wrote:
| Parent comment said "restrictions" on ownership by
| foreigners, not "laws". The "restrictions" are semi-informal,
| barriers put in place as needed, in the form of a bunch of
| extra costly-to-satisfy red tape that isn't _usually_
| insisted upon, but which becomes a "must have" if you're
| someone the local Japanese-nationalist NIMBYs don't want
| living there.
|
| (I would note that white people aren't likely to be hardest-
| hit by these "restrictions." Consider which ethnic groups an
| elderly Japanese person would remember directly fighting
| against in a previous war. Those same elderly Japanese people
| now form the inaka's governments, so AFAICT those same ethnic
| groups are most resisted.)
| Jaepa wrote:
| As clarification, do you mean as Americans (a la WW2), or
| Chinese/Korean (a la Second Sino-Japanese War), or both?
| Qworg wrote:
| The latter IIRC - up until recently, if you had 1/128th
| Korean ancestry or more, you were disenfranchised.
| winter_blue wrote:
| > up until recently, if you had 1/128th Korean ancestry
| or more, you were disenfranchised.
|
| Do you have a reference for this?
| meristohm wrote:
| My anecdata isn't so specific, and supports the bias of
| the claim:
|
| In the early 2000s I spent a cumulative ten months out so
| bicycling along Japan, attending graduate school, and
| being well-cared-for by strangers (I'm a male from the US
| with Western European ancestors). Several hosts who had
| ancestors from the mainland (Korea, China) said life in
| Japan was the more difficult for it.
| legerdemain wrote:
| Not specifically about 1/128, but there's plenty of
| reading about discrimination against masses of Koreans
| abducted and pressed into labor by Japan during WW2,
| basically ever since WW2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K
| oreans_in_Japan#Integration_i...
| hallarempt wrote:
| The second world war ended 75 years ago. There aren't that
| many people still alive who actually _fought directly_ in
| that war. Not even in notoriously long-lived Japan.
| [deleted]
| derefr wrote:
| To clarify, by "directly fighting against" I meant "there
| were battles in which Japanese forces actually engaged
| [other country]'s forces" rather than just "Japan was in
| one big alliance and [other country] was in an opposed
| big alliance." That's the specific set of countries Japan
| holds higher levels of lingering xenophobia toward.
|
| You're right, in that the people holding grudges today
| aren't likely to have directly _experienced_ these
| events, but more likely are those who saw their fathers
| /brothers shipped to the front and never return, and so
| who hold a vague-but-strong grudge against whatever
| nebulous enemy the Japanese propaganda machine
| represented as being on the other side of those
| particular battles.
|
| (Sadly, this can be a _stronger_ foundation for
| xenophobia than actually having fought an enemy corps-a-
| corps, as these folks have never actually been exposed to
| the experience of seeing enemy soldiers hurting /dying,
| grieving, wishing they weren't at the front, and just
| generally being human.)
| oblio wrote:
| https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/09/18/national/num
| ber...
|
| You were saying? 2+ million 90 year olds in Japan. Maybe
| not old enough to have fought in the war, but definitely
| old enough to remember the bombings, for example.
| freeopinion wrote:
| > Those same elderly Japanese people now form the inaka's
| governments.
|
| Not impossible, but quite unlikely.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| All I know for sure is in America anyone from any country can
| buy our land, and homes.
|
| Absolutely no requirements besides an email, and money.
|
| (I don't understand why their isn't more of an uproar,
| especially when the stock is so low to begin with, and
| housing is our biggest expense.)
| oblio wrote:
| > I don't understand why their isn't more of an uproar,
| especially when the stock is so low to begin with, and
| housing is our biggest expense.
|
| When in doubt, think money.
|
| It's always money.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| Given that these require residency, there is a defacto
| restriction on ownership for those without the means to get a
| long term visa or residency permit.
|
| I was not aware of NTT getting you internet; thanks for that
| info!
|
| I seem to recall the wireless unlimited plans being rather
| expensive, but it's been a while.
|
| Yes, Japanese government is it's own special issue. Hanko
| being an always fun issue for people!
|
| I absolutely LOVE being in the Inaka. When my in-laws shut
| down their business they moved a little ways out, and we
| regularly visit their family friends in the mountains at
| their Onsen, which is a solid 40 minutes from anyone else at
| all.
| rootsudo wrote:
| Yep, as long as you have utilities, then you can get NTT
| Fiber.
|
| It is _much_ easier if it has a pre-existing phone line
| active, or sometime per-existing. Considering these
| properties were most likely occupied during the 1970
| 's-1990's, a phone line most likely is present so it is on
| the "books" as serviceable.
|
| If not, you get the phone line service first if you must.
|
| Alternatively you can also look in TOWNPAGE for the address
| and see if it shows up.
| ddoran wrote:
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but Japan does not allow dual
| citizenship ... rather your children are young enough that they
| have not had to declare their ultimate citizenship?
|
| My wife and I are naturalized US citizens. My country of origin
| allows me to retain dual citizenship, as does the US, but my
| wife was obliged to renounce her Japanese citizenship when she
| became a US citizen. It's annoying and unfortunate that she had
| to do so.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| Japan does not consider someone an adult capable of making
| that decision until they are 20. Further, they won't force
| the decision (nor will the US) even after that point.
|
| This leads to interesting issues. One such individual was in
| training with me but had to sit and wait 6 months until he
| turned 20 to renounce his Japanese citizenship so that he
| could obtain a clearance. This was 20 years ago, so things
| may have changed.
| ashtonkem wrote:
| Anytime something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
| dpedu wrote:
| How much have things changed in these 15 years? Are prices and
| regulation rising or falling?
| CobaltFire wrote:
| It's been pretty static, honestly.
| tvanantwerp wrote:
| Reminds me of an economics joke:
|
| Two economists are walking down the street. One spots a $20
| bill on the sidewalk. He bends to pick it up, but his companion
| stops him. "If there really were free money in the street," the
| companion says, "then somebody else would've picked it up
| before now."
| paulddraper wrote:
| And yet somehow hedge funds exist to look for $20 bills in
| streets.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| After laboriously explaining the logical errors in his
| companion's warning the first economist bends over the pick
| up the $20 bill again, only to find it quickly pulled away
| down the street on a fishing line being pulled by a couple of
| pranksters hidden around a corner.
| dathinab wrote:
| I don't like the joke, tbh.
|
| Because:
|
| - In somewhat professional bussiness areas there is in
| general no free mony, but not because no one picked it up but
| because no one would place the money down/accidentally let it
| fall down without noticing.
|
| - But in specific contexts there is "free money" it's just
| that "in general" this context doesn't apply to you, e.g.
| there if you are Japanese person who wants to spend the next
| decade farming in the country side this might be a awesome
| deal for you.
|
| - But the "mony on the ground" analogy represents a "general
| but rare" situation, not a "very specific context", but you
| can find money on the ground and it's always worth picking it
| up, BUT you should check if there is a string attached to it
| (in that case literally ;=)).
|
| So for me the joke sounds like what someone would try to
| argue in self defense when doing a bad deal to reason that
| all is fine because they are not "blind sighted economists".
|
| In my environment (or more precise that of my dad) I have
| seen people going in that direction of "picking up free
| money" and making exactly this kind of jokes only to lose all
| the money they had maneuvering themself into a situation of
| basically falling into poverty not long before they normally
| could have gone into a nice reasonable wealthy retirement...
| tacostakohashi wrote:
| The humor in the joke comes from the mismatch between
| economic theory and reality.
| alentist wrote:
| Elaborate, because it sounds like a strawman.
| dathinab wrote:
| I can agree with him the mismatch is what makes me
| dislike the joke as it can spawn bad ideas but also what
| can make it funny in a "dark humorous" way.
|
| Me not liking the joke doesn't necessary mean it's not
| funny :=/ Like a joke which makes you both laugh and feel
| bad at the same time...
| imtringued wrote:
| Perfect markets have no time lag, everything happens
| instantaneously. Thus it is always in the perfect state.
| The real world is not that convenient.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| If you get to the point where the $20 bills on the ground are
| being advertised online in other countries after being on the
| ground for years, then there is probably a massive catch.
|
| Substitute $20 bills on the ground with $500 house in Japan
| and it's obvious why this joke analogy doesn't apply.
| dvh wrote:
| Russian and Ukrainian are walking down the street. They both
| spots $100 bill. Russian picks it up and says: "Let's split
| like brothers!" and Ukrainian says: "No! Let's split 50:50"
| TimTheTinker wrote:
| I'm not Russian or Ukrainian, but I suspect this stems from
| the Stalin's treatment of occupied Ukraine in the early
| 1930's, where so much of their grain was shipped out of the
| country that 25% of Ukraine's population had died by 1933.
| all2 wrote:
| I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Often the core
| of comedy is pain. Knowing this puts the GP's joke in a
| darker, more grounded context.
| User23 wrote:
| Dark humor is like food. Not everyone gets it.
| oblio wrote:
| Ah, another branch of the "Q: Which countries does Russia
| border? A: Whichever countries it wants to." jokes, I see
| :-D
| bserge wrote:
| Ha, classic. Works with pretty much any two nationalities.
| Borrible wrote:
| I would be cautious.
|
| In the Japanese construction industry, Keynes' general theory of
| paying people to dig holes is understood literally.
|
| https://robbreport.com/shelter/home-design/japanese-homes-ar...
| Finnucane wrote:
| Japan isn't alone in having a problem with rural depopulation.
| Much of Europe as well. These cheap houses are not always going
| to be move-in ready, and there may be limitations on foreign
| ownership. So due diligence is in order.
| MomoXenosaga wrote:
| The trick is not having a rural landscape at all. The most
| depopulated parts of my country would be considered urban in
| the US lol. Industrial estates, railways, highways...
| nicbou wrote:
| The small roads of Poland and the Czech Republic are flanked by
| abandoned houses. Parts of France and Germany are the same.
|
| Most jobs are in the city, as are schools and interesting
| places. Village life isn't for everyone.
|
| I'm considering those all the time when I drive by them, but
| the price likely isn't low enough to get me to live there, away
| from everything I enjoy.
| Finnucane wrote:
| There are places in the US where you can buy houses for a
| tiny fraction of what a condo would cost in a major city, but
| the problem are the same--you will have to invest in rehab,
| the local economy is probably not good, etc. On the other
| hand, if you can still do remote work and get money that way,
| you could make a go of it. But it wouldn't be easy.
| aledalgrande wrote:
| Aside from the cited internet, I would be worried about the
| other types of infrastructure around me if I was living in
| such a place. If it keeps depopulating, who's going to pay
| for roads, water and electricity plants? What's safety
| gonna be like? Closest ER? There's a lot of things that we
| are provided with every day and expect to be there, that we
| don't really think about.
| ghaff wrote:
| And broadband Internet may well be an issue. 5G _may_ help
| in some cases although my dad 's house which doesn't have
| broadband also has almost non-existent cellular service.
| (There's a hot spot but it's limited in both speed and
| amount of data. Basically no streaming.)
|
| Starlink should help in this regard. You don't really have
| good alternatives to landline broadband today in the US
| generally.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| In theory, you could also invest into laying a local
| fiber cable. It's not cheap (think 4 to 5 digits), but
| depending on the location, it might be worth it.
| ghaff wrote:
| It's a ways down a private road so it would certainly
| cost a lot. For now, it's just a vacation/summer place.
| It means I can't really work remotely from there unless I
| can mostly work offline (which I can't really in general)
| but I'm fine without things like streaming.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| If you are or know the owner of the road, it would
| probably not be that big of a problem - fiber and
| equipment is quite cheap and you could do the digging
| yourself (it would not be perfect, but it does not matter
| for private use). Usually, the real problem is getting
| the permits from the government and/or the owners in
| between; in your case, you might just need to get the ISP
| to meet you at the border of the premise.
|
| Setting up a wireless ISP (posted quite often on HN)
| might be another solution. But, if it works for you, it's
| probably not worth the investment.
| ghaff wrote:
| The road is maintained by the homeowner's association
| that we're a part of.
|
| If I were going to be living there full-time, better
| Internet is something I would probably have to look into.
| My brother did look into options (as have others along
| the same road) and he concluded that a hot-spot with
| limited data now with hopefully Starlink in the future
| made the most sense.
|
| For occasional use, limited Internet is fine. I don't
| depend on streaming for myself and I don't expect to work
| from there to any major degree. (And can always go into
| the town library or wherever.)
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| We had originally planned on moving to Portugal on a Golden
| Visa (real estate investment) but through a stoke of luck my
| partner is able to obtain Italian citizenship, so now we've
| shifted to looking for a rural Italian property to fully
| renovate ("1 Euro houses"). Similar benefits to rural American
| living (less congestion and density, more open spaces) but in a
| country with a functioning healthcare system and short flights
| to most of Europe.
| ecommerceguy wrote:
| >>functioning healthcare system
|
| Where are you now?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| United States.
| moonchrome wrote:
| >with a functioning healthcare system and short flights to
| most of Europe.
|
| In rural Italy ? You are deluding yourself ... Expect to go
| private for a lot of stuff that isn't life threatening
| (source: we have a growing medical tourism sector in Croatia
| that caters in large part to Italy, especially for dental and
| physical rehab)
| aledalgrande wrote:
| Have to concur unfortunately, if we're talking about the
| South of Italy. Their infrastructure is nowhere close to
| the one in the North. And I can imagine rural will have
| even less.
| nszceta wrote:
| Unless you have inspected your local hospital emergency room
| you are deluding yourself. I used to have a high opinion of
| free EU healthcare until I was neglected for 12 hours in the
| emergency room from 4 PM till 4 AM begging for assistance
| every time the ONE doctor (no nurses) on duty overnight
| walked by. She was working 30 patients by herself. If it was
| something more serious than dehydration I would have died on
| the ER waiting room floor where I sat for more than six hours
| because all 10 chairs along the wall were taken, and one bum
| reeked of stale feces and urine so badly my clothes smelled
| for hours after leaving the area just from being near him.
| ineedasername wrote:
| I'm in the US, suburbs of a large city, and I have very
| good insurance. I waited 4 hours in the emergency room
| after getting rushed there in an ambulance for chest pain.
| After an initial EKG, which showed abnormalities, they just
| left for 4 hours before doing blood work that would
| definitively determine if it was a heart attack. Then they
| woke me up at 3:00am to tell me it wasn't a heart attack.
| They discharged me the next day with no referral, no
| follow-up plans, didn't even do an echo cardiogram. They
| did do a 15 minute stress test but had to stop after 7
| minutes because my heart rate went too high, and yet still
| discharged me. But I did hear someone talking about how
| they really wanted to push everyone out that day since it
| was a Friday and didn't want to have to deal with a bunch
| of patients in the weekend.
|
| On my own accord I went to a cardiologist who immediately
| did an echo and found a very serious problem.
|
| Maybe places in the EU don't have great healthcare, but
| that's not much different than the US except that in the US
| you can still go bankrupt paying for bad healthcare, even
| if you have insurance.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I have waited 12+ hours in a US emergency department to be
| seen, and my current health insurance company is actively
| attempting to implement policy where they can deny ER
| claims retroactively if they don't believe it was an
| emergency. I pay for this privilege.
|
| Everyone has their anecdotes. The data is clear Americans
| pay orders of magnitude more worse care and outcomes than
| other OECD countries.
| nszceta wrote:
| What insurance company and what state?
|
| My worst experience with US healthcare has been with
| billing of anesthesiologists.
|
| They are out of network usually, you can't find out ahead
| of time, and they charge a thousand dollars per hour
| kalleboo wrote:
| > _What insurance company and what state?_
|
| You didn't tell us where in the EU, so why does it
| suddenly matter where in the US?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| UHC, Florida and Illinois, similar experiences.
|
| If the response is, "Get a better insurance company." I
| agree! Hence seeking EU citizenship.
| nszceta wrote:
| UHC is very standard in the US. Most people won't have a
| choice. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it to save up
| cash and litigate after ER visits than to pay for health
| insurance.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| A family friend's daughter broker her arm in Mexico on
| vacation. Total cost to be seen and casted? $73 cash.
|
| To your point, one should not have to optimize to be
| judgment proof in order to exist in their country, and
| that's why (at least for myself) I'm optimizing to get
| out. There are so many other welcoming countries to
| expats, there's no reason to stay if you have means and a
| network of colleagues that can ensure you can work
| remotely in perpetuity.
|
| https://nomadcapitalist.com/flag-theory/
| kalleboo wrote:
| > _A family friend's daughter broker her arm in Mexico on
| vacation. Total cost to be seen and casted? $73 cash._
|
| One of the issue is that a most of the healthcare issues
| that young, healthy people run into are surprisingly
| cheap. But the big costs come from chronic and elderly
| care. Who are the people who can't afford it. So it
| always seems like young, healthy people can get a better
| deal, but then who will pay for them when they're old?
| ethbr0 wrote:
| In general, if you're not going to die in the next 3
| hours, don't go to an ER.
|
| Because of the laws surrounding ER care [0] and the fact
| that most hospitals with ERs are Trauma I & last resort,
| almost all operate in triage all the time.
|
| The end result is that if you're not critical, you get
| care once they have enough time. And they never have
| enough time. Because they never have enough people.
|
| Recommendations: only consider ERs in wealthy suburbs
| (where they'll be less overloaded with last-resort
| patients), go to an urgent care center (and expect to be
| screwed on price), or a walk-in doctor's office (best
| option).
|
| [0] EMTALA, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Med
| ical_Treatment_...
| dheera wrote:
| Also, it seems the norm in the US to take Uber to
| hospitals now because the shits driving ambulances will
| charge you $2000+ for the ride. They will literally take
| advantage of your life-threatening situation to make a
| quick buck off you.
|
| Welcome to what thinks they are a developed country.
| drdebug wrote:
| I have noticed similar issues but I don't think you would
| have "died on the ER waiting room floor": if you were in
| for dehydration then you were treated as such, i.e. low
| priority. That's really all there is to it. Sometimes
| people are misdiagnosed and that's when there really is a
| problem, but that's independent of the country, and Doctors
| do everything they can to make sure this does not happen.
| In most of Europe you go to the hospital to be treated,
| your comfort is really considered secondary unless you are
| in very bad health. The stinky guy next to you had the same
| rights that you do, but the system is such that you both
| should be treated equally and given proper care. The system
| is not perfect but it does its best to follow these
| principles.
| adrianN wrote:
| I've also spent nights waiting for attention in emergency
| rooms. Being made to wait in an emergency room is usually a
| good sign. If you had something that would've killed you in
| 12h, I believe the doctor on duty would have been more
| likely to prioritize you.
| throw3849 wrote:
| I see opposite in EU. Renta in city centers are very cheap now.
| jamil7 wrote:
| Where in the EU? From my perspective it's consistently
| getting crazier and crazier in the capitals. I also see a lot
| of cheap rural property in Germany, Estonia, Portugal, Poland
| etc.
| IkmoIkmo wrote:
| There was a small rent price drop during Covid in some hot
| property markets that were popular as being the country's
| cultural / tourist capital (e.g. New York or Amsterdam). When
| the lockdowns it's hard to sell a $200 a night hotel or a
| $2000 a month rent to people who can't even go to a
| restaurant or museum.
|
| But even with the modest drops, rental prices in such cities
| are still waaaaaay above anywhere else, and the prices are
| already on the rise again.
|
| Apart from that I have no clue what you're referring to.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| It depends a lot of on the city and whether it's east or
| west Germany. Growing centers like Munich, Frankfurt and
| Berlin will cost you a lot of money (1-2kEUR and up for
| ~60qm2 w/o parking), while in Dresden or Leipzig you can
| find apartments in comparable locations for 300-500EUR.
| cpitman wrote:
| There's a great little video log following someone doing exactly
| this, acquiring an akiya house and renovating it
| (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBQ3TEq5SrUuTJuMl1S_4ig).
|
| He starts from how they bought a house, to the state it was in
| when they started (spoilers, no one had ever emptied the fridge
| when the last occupant died), to the work done by a local
| carpenter and the work he did himself.
| belter wrote:
| I second this. I have followed the series of videos and its
| really well done.
| Wesxdz wrote:
| Long term I see housing collapsing and going negative maybe
| around 2030 (ie countries like Japan/Spain/South Korea) paying
| foreigners to move into akiya, it's a compelling case for young
| remote workers in the US who have been priced out of the real
| estate market in nice cities en masse to abandon their landlords
| in favor of something like this.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I think it will stay multimodal market. Some places will
| continue going up, that is the most desirable and most supply
| limited cities. Some will follow inflation, that is smaller
| well planned towns that can support themselves, but aren't in
| massive growth. And then in some places will or already have
| negative value. Like some "HOA" in Finland being unable to get
| loans for basic renovation and having to demolish house. With
| owners being left with debt...
| ethbr0 wrote:
| The anti-foreign NIMBY reaction is going to be curious.
|
| From a national, demographic, and budget perspective, this
| _has_ to happen for many countries (quickly, at large scale).
|
| From a local, cultural perspective, I see people being very
| resistant (relatively speaking wealthy, culturally-ignorant
| foreigners moving in in large numbers?).
|
| In democracies... that's going to be an interesting mix.
| Especially when current residents are the primary voters.
|
| I expect we'll see more successful countries form political
| alliances between immigrants and parties pushing for more
| skilled worker immigration.
| bambam24 wrote:
| Click bait
| lazyjones wrote:
| Italy still has a similar programme, anyone remember the "$1
| house" articles?
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
|
| If there are no strings attached, which I doubt (in Italy it's
| the mafia and lack of infrastructure), that'd be a chance to pick
| up cheap urban land.
| mast22 wrote:
| Same goes for Sicilian real estate. Houses require a major
| restoration, but they cost just 1 euro.
| abruzzi wrote:
| This is not unheard of in the US as well. When you go into
| deteriorated urban neighborhoods, one of the reasons for the many
| vacant homes is that the accumulated property taxes on a
| particular home are far more that the value of the home. If you
| sell the home, the taxes go with it, so a new owner would have to
| pay those accumulated back taxes. In my state, after three years
| of unpaid property taxes, the property can be auctioned, but that
| assumes there is someone who is willing to pay for it, and then
| there is a period where the original owner can refund the buyer
| and take possession of property again. That makes it a long and
| fraught process to buy one of these auctioned properties.
|
| So instead, they negotiate with the property owner to have them
| donate the property in return for forgiveness of the back taxes.
| This happened with a number of neighborhoods in Philadelphia,
| when I lived there. After the city took possession of the
| property, they would then setup a neighborhood group to give or
| sell the properties to people or businesses that they thought
| would help "gentrify" the neighborhood. The people requesting
| properties would fill out an application detailing how they would
| use the property, and the neighborhood council would select
| "deserving" applications (I put that in scare quotes because the
| process would sometimes be corrupted by people favoring friends.)
| I knew someone on one of these councils, and considered applying
| for a home, but decided I wasn't that committed to living there,
| and a year later moved west.
| dang wrote:
| Past related threads:
|
| _Japan is trying to lure people into rural areas by selling $500
| homes_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27654817 - June
| 2021 (3 comments)
|
| _Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18548742 - Nov 2018 (381
| comments)
|
| Marginally related:
|
| _Raze, rebuild, repeat: why Japan knocks down its houses after
| 30 years_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15736734 - Nov
| 2017 (43 comments)
| suction wrote:
| I don't think this influx of Japan-related posts on the HN
| front page is a positive thing. The overexposure of Japan in
| nerd circles is understandable and well-researched, but it
| feels like a cheapening of this forum and descend into Reddit
| territory.
| carabiner wrote:
| In Italy they're going for 1 euro:
| https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-one-euro-homes-cast...
|
| Same deal as Japan; you have to pay to renovate them and live in
| the middle of nowhere.
| haunter wrote:
| What about the visa/residency though? Isn't Japan ultra strict
| about that?
| xvilka wrote:
| Yes, I don't see a point of this program at all because in case
| of Japan there is double trouble of non-urban and overall
| population decline. Thus, logically, they should aim this kind
| of program specifically to foreigners, to attract foreign money
| and people themselves.
| post_break wrote:
| Correct, Gaijin would need not apply. Getting a regular
| apartment in Japan as a foreigner is hard as it is.
| asutekku wrote:
| Purcashing or renting? Because for me it was literally just
| going to a rental store and signing a stack of documents.
| post_break wrote:
| I guess it depends on the location, property, etc. It seems
| like a lot of foreigners need to jump through more hoops
| than citizens. More rent up front, higher signing gift to
| the land lord, etc.
| xrd wrote:
| When I lived in Japan I would visit friends of my host families
| and even up in Sapporo (a relatively new city of only ~200 years)
| I would see these "old" houses and be fascinated by them (maybe
| this was down south in Hokkaido in Hakodate, I don't recall). One
| time my host mother explained that some of those houses are
| designated at the second tier of "important cultural property"
| (the first tier is even more restrictive) which meant they could
| not do modern style improvements to them by order of the
| government. It was really fascinating to see these houses falling
| apart and the people that owned and lived in them being unable to
| repair them to preserve the cultural heritage of Japan. I shudder
| to think how my fellow Americans would react to such laws.
| [deleted]
| ghaff wrote:
| Older buildings in the US can absolutely come with a lot of
| restrictions especially related to changing exteriors. You're
| more likely to run into this in urban areas than rural though.
| retrac wrote:
| Here in Ontario, Canada in a medium-sized city, the downtown
| core is littered with heritage properties. My friends own a
| home built around 1900 and they cannot alter the front in any
| significant way, and the interior woodwork of the front room is
| deemed heritage-signicant and has to be preserved as well. They
| got permission from the city to rebuild the front deck (a later
| addition anyway) as long as they literally just rebuilt it as-
| is. They knew that going in, and it is a beautiful majestic old
| building. I believe there are laws like that throughout Canada
| and the USA, though our town may be more aggressive than some
| places. It does sometimes lead to the kind of disrepair you
| speak of.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| If the government / city specifies the architectural style,
| it should provide helping funds?
|
| I know this happens in many places, but it's insane to
| mandate this, but expect 100% of funding to come from the
| property owner.
|
| Maintaining a consistent / historical style is a benefit to
| the _community_ , and so the community should help pay for
| its own good.
| bombcar wrote:
| Hahaha funny joke.
|
| There are many of these unfunded mandates all around.
| Usually there is a small fund but it runs out instantly.
| scheme271 wrote:
| I don't think they provide funds directly in the US, but
| often you can get tax breaks and incentives from federal
| and state governments. This often applies to annual taxes
| as well as money used to restore the property.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| I've looked at the specifics of some of the tax breaks
| (roughly: no taxes on the increased value of the property
| for some number of years), but they mostly seem oriented
| towards speculators or commercial, rather than
| residental.
|
| The primary impediment to residential renovation is
| typically cash on hand to initiate the project.
|
| Which, if true, seems like something like providing a
| loan facility, borrowed against the future tax credit,
| maybe with the tax credit packaged for resale on the open
| market to offset the cost?
|
| Presumably nobody (the homeowner, the neighborhood, the
| city) wants a house that's falling apart to stay that
| way.
| aledalgrande wrote:
| I think this is the same everywhere there is some history. In
| Italy if they find art during renovation, like a mosaic from
| a roman bathroom that was hidden beneath the floor, they have
| to stop work and call specialists. Then there are 1500s
| villas that are UNESCO assets that you can live in, but have
| to go through a lot of pricey work to maintain.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| I'm not too familiar with the situation in the US, but aren't
| there areas with HOAs that pose similarly strict laws on the
| exterior of your house? Like length of grass etc. Doesn't seem
| to be too different.
|
| Germany, for what it's worth, has a lot of the same laws
| protecting old buildings, where it is very hard to impossible
| to legally modify the front.
| dheera wrote:
| HOAs are different, and not trying to protect any historical
| anything.
|
| They are literally a bunch of assholes that bunch together
| and patrol the streets to annoy people because they believe
| bullying others will keep their own property values high.
|
| It's sad the the law even allows this.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| > HOAs are different, and not trying to protect any
| historical anything.
|
| Sure, but they pose similarly strict laws on your buildings
| - that's what I was going at.
| ghaff wrote:
| There are certainly horror stories about HOAs. But
| sometimes, for example, there is shared property like a
| private road that has to be maintained and plowed. How do
| you handle that without some sort of group decision-making?
| dheera wrote:
| That's fine.
|
| They should not be able to have say over what happens on
| non-common property, including peoples' houses and yards,
| and financials around maintainence of that private road
| should be disclosed to all people who live on it.
| ashtonkem wrote:
| > I shudder to think how my fellow Americans would react to
| such laws.
|
| You don't have to imagine it, similar rules exist here in
| America too. They're called "historical districts" here; the
| only difference is usually it's done for the benefit of the
| rich owners to protect their generational wealth, rather than
| at the cost of poorer owners who cannot afford the high cost of
| historically accurate maintenance.
| codingdave wrote:
| It should be noted that if you are up for renovating an old home
| in a small town, there are no lack of cheap, abandoned homes in
| the USA either. Or, just buy land and build the home from the
| ground up. At the end of the day, your money and energy are going
| to go into the renovation or construction, not initial purchase
| prices.
| ozim wrote:
| This reminds me of discussion I've been in some months ago on
| HN.
|
| My point was that "building more houses" is not cure for
| homelessness.
|
| Because people don't want to live where abandoned homes are -
| because there are no jobs, no amenities and probably none of
| family members or friends.
|
| Getting to hospital nowadays in the city might be hard, can't
| imagine how hard could it be if you are in some far away
| village.
|
| I was thinking about living in some remote area if I just could
| get 3G internet or starlink but then as I got middle age having
| pharmacy or a doctor close by gets more priority than getting
| cheap land/getting away from people.
|
| Building more flats in area where everyone wants to live leads
| to bad outcomes as well - just google Hong Kong flats. I would
| definitely would not like to live there as it looks like not
| much better than just being homeless.
|
| It all is really complex topic.
| bullfightonmars wrote:
| No one is talking about building houses in the middle of
| nowhere, where there are no jobs, and bo lack of supply.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Ah yes, "in Japan". Mind you, in _very specific parts of Japan
| where there might be a very good reason for houses to cost
| nothing_. We 're talking about abandoned properties that you then
| have to pay all the "reclaim and rebuild" costs on, and you can't
| even legally DIY, you have to hire licensed craftsmen to fix it
| in the traditional style. And you're stuck with it for years and
| years, too. Not just "ownership": you have to live in it. In a
| place that everyone else is leaving, so instead of moving into a
| community, you're moving into progressive isolation and
| depression, while going bankrupt.
|
| Hey, did you know houses in the US are going for as little as $1?
| That's an even better deal than $500!
| peter_retief wrote:
| I would love to retire to the Japanese country and fix up an old
| house. It is probably not as idealic as in my minds eye but would
| love to hear some experiences people have had doing this.
| LatteLazy wrote:
| If youre willing to live in a high crime area with no jobs and no
| kichen or bathroom, you can get a house for PS1 in the uk.
|
| https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/the-1-pound-houses-br...
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