[HN Gopher] Urban Dictionary on Hacker News
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Urban Dictionary on Hacker News
        
       Author : 5faulker
       Score  : 290 points
       Date   : 2021-08-21 18:08 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.urbandictionary.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.urbandictionary.com)
        
       | asien wrote:
       | I find funny because it's accurate !
       | 
       | 99% of entrepreneur fail , that's literally why it's hard and why
       | it's highly respected !
       | 
       | Remember when Tesla almost went Bankrupt ? It's very like because
       | it happens almost three times... and only now after 25+ years
       | Tesla is making a profit by selling its cars without sorcery
       | finances...
       | 
       | Being an entrepreneur is hard , I love the Tesla example because
       | even if Elon Musk had the vision and a superior engineering
       | delivery , the company was technically a commercial failure for
       | more than a decade.
       | 
       | Being a better than average engineer ( probably a LOT of HN uses
       | ) is unfortunately not enough to become a sucessfull entrepreneur
       | !
        
         | bob229 wrote:
         | Tesla was founded 18 years ago...
        
       | mypastself wrote:
       | 2021 version would have to include:
       | 
       | Upvote anything with Rust, Go, SQLite, or Haskell in the title;
       | use the words "orthogonal" and "Pareto" as much as possible.
       | 
       | Hate SPAs, Docker, crypto, and someone using the word "crypto"
       | for cryptocurrency.
        
         | jstx1 wrote:
         | "Pareto" is so 2010.
        
         | enlyth wrote:
         | Javascript bad, peak UI was Windows 95, mention screen readers
         | in every post about interfaces
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | Hacker News = everything that came after my adolescence is
           | terrible and everyone needs to know that.
           | 
           | Twitter: A rabid pack of shrieking, pitchfork wielding neo-
           | Marxist SJWs ruining people's lives with impunity.
           | 
           | Facebook: their boomer Neo-Nazi anti-vaxxer parents captured
           | by CIA mind-control and agitprop.
           | 
           | Youtube: nothing but low-effort monetized clickbait and also
           | leftist propaganda, because Google.
           | 
           | Instagram: also nothing but low-effort monetized clickbait,
           | but also porn.
           | 
           | Tiktok: CCP propaganda but also for some reason we really
           | like it, at least until the novelty wears off.
           | 
           | Reddit: just mouth-breathing imbeciles posting cat pictures
           | and memes. Good thing we're better than them, and point out
           | that fact to ourselves at every opportunity.
           | 
           | The entire rest of the web: shit, except for 4chan.
           | 
           | Movies: shit.
           | 
           | TV: shit.
           | 
           | Music: shit.
           | 
           | TFA: never bothered reading it, but I'll assume this rant
           | about cultural marxism is relevant.
           | 
           | Books: Do they even still _make_ physical books? I thought
           | paper went obsolete in 2019.
           | 
           | Science: lies, damn lies and statistics.
           | 
           | Media: lies, damn lies and more lies.
           | 
           | Other people: hell.
           | 
           | Emoji: BLIND RAGE
           | 
           | Technology: What is with all these buttons and blinking
           | lights, what does any of this even _do?_ Why would anyone
           | need anything more than a Lisp REPL in a bare terminal?
           | 
           | Code: JAVASCRIPT DELENDA EST. Everything but Rust and Lisp
           | are shit and PHP literally gives you brain cancer.
           | 
           | Society: Ted Kaczynski was right about everything. Burn it
           | all down and return to monke.
           | 
           | Your stupid project:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
           | 
           | Hacker News itself: used to be good, but now it's turning
           | into Reddit. Who let these people in here? I bet half of them
           | have never even _written_ a compiler.
        
             | FillardMillmore wrote:
             | Oof. A lot of truth here.
             | 
             | At least we are self-aware and can have a laugh at
             | ourselves.
        
             | eplanit wrote:
             | Krapp fully comprehends this world we're in.
        
           | asien wrote:
           | Or the the history of how oracle created a world wide
           | conspiracy to impose Java has a standard , and if they hadn't
           | done so Haskell/ Clojure / ( Anything that's not OOP) would
           | be running everything from Operating System to Back End.
           | 
           | That damn Oracle Conspiracy, and OOP !
        
             | olingern wrote:
             | Don't forget the ever important monthly note taking thread
             | / post where every top comment starts with Roam/Obsidian,
             | followed by org mode, and always ends with a single note
             | text file.
        
         | dennis_moore wrote:
         | > Upvote anything with Rust, Go, SQLite, or Haskell in the
         | title; use the words "orthogonal" and "Pareto" as much as
         | possible.
         | 
         | Don't forget Julia!
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | Hate docker? It's overhyped like Rust and Go in here.
        
       | elipsey wrote:
       | We're not _all_ unsuccessful entrepreneurs, I for one am an
       | unemployed programmer!
        
       | Rd6n6 wrote:
       | I like hacker news for tech news and career subjects, but indie
       | hackers is where the founders seem to hang out. If I need to talk
       | to somebody about bootstrapping, ih is great. A lot fewer
       | technical people though, lots of site builders and no code
       | setups. Hn users can write a bst in their sleep but ih users can
       | make a landing and validate an idea while building a mailing list
       | in their sleep
        
       | black_13 wrote:
       | An accurate definition
        
       | adventured wrote:
       | > Hey Mr. Cuban, did you see that post on Hacker News?
       | 
       | It's amusing that's the supporting point line, because whoever
       | wrote the entry is placing their self in the category they're
       | trying to peg HN with. I was in business with Mark across a bunch
       | of years, he has always had an interest in news, news aggregation
       | sites, information acquisition and delivery in general. He was
       | familiar with Hacker News, including understanding its
       | association with Y Combinator, and he always liked it when
       | BlogMaverick posts hit the front page. He understood its
       | relevance in the tech ecosystem.
       | 
       | For years after Mark set up his venture capital business, he (his
       | team) used Y Combinator's various public docs as the foundation
       | for the investment agreements.
        
       | hellbannedguy wrote:
       | The first thing I thought was Mark Cuban was the wrong guy to use
       | as an example.
       | 
       | (Always felt Cuban got lucky during the early days of the gold
       | rush. I feel that way about most financially successful people
       | though?)
       | 
       | I think that definition missed a few HN personality types.
       | 
       | It forgot unsuccessful, lonely, egotistical, disenfranchised,
       | shut-in's---like myself.
        
         | preommr wrote:
         | The first thing I thought was Mark Cuban was the perfect guy to
         | use as an example.
         | 
         | It made me trigger even more for the exact reason you
         | mentioned.
        
       | blastonico wrote:
       | Perfectly described, now I'll search for WallStreetBets, that I
       | visit very frequently.
        
       | EMRZ wrote:
       | One thing i noticed is that most of the conversation here feels
       | alien to me.
       | 
       | I think this is because most of the people here are living in
       | California and they seem to have a very particular world view not
       | always compatible or even undertandable for anyone from any other
       | place.
       | 
       | I used to enjoy this website in like, 2015/16 i think, now the
       | topics are not even tech related anymore.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | Algorithms governing large amounts of information exchange in
         | the world are all developed in California (Twitter/FB/Google)
         | as well.
         | 
         | SV's political culture (and largely America's culture) is being
         | exported to the world at an ever increasing pace:
         | https://www.economist.com/international/2021/06/12/social-me...
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | This is a reflection of how engineers have become aware of the
         | ethical and political effects of their work. To HN's credit the
         | non-technical discussions are of high quality, in general.
         | 
         | From a purely technical standpoint, HN remains the best forum
         | for discovery of new projects and giving feedback to FAANG. (M
         | not so much).
        
       | halgir wrote:
       | Reminds me of when 4chan pretended to be Hacker News.
       | 
       | Thread archive: https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/48696148
       | 
       | HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9788317
        
         | hjek wrote:
         | That 4chan link is full of the vilest antisemtism, racism, etc.
        
           | natchy wrote:
           | The vilest? Not even. That was a mild 4chan thread.
        
           | ng12 wrote:
           | Yep, it's their way of gatekeeping.
        
         | 0x737368 wrote:
         | 4chan often had(maybe still has, dunno haven't checked up on
         | anons for a while) a fantastic feel for irony, satire and
         | parody(including of themselves). People unfairly disregard the
         | true internet comedy gold that 4chan has gifted to society.
        
           | kbenson wrote:
           | I bet a lot of those 4chan commenters we're HN users or
           | lurkers. The best criticism comes from those closest.
        
           | User23 wrote:
           | It's amusing that 4chan is the something awful forum's fault.
           | I was reminded of this by the phrase "comedy gold."
        
           | brailsafe wrote:
           | It's not too bad, but I'd only go up to comedy silver.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | weimerica wrote:
           | It's often a better place to have real, open discussion than
           | HN.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | Not half bad
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | >[420 points] Show HN: I ripped off an existing product and
         | added Bootstrap to it
         | 
         | That page is actually pretty funny.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | That's hilarious, it's healthy to be able to laugh at yourself.
         | Thanks for sharing!
        
         | 0-_-0 wrote:
         | > How we moved from MongoDB to a thousand Chinese children
         | memorizing numbers and you should too! [medium.com]
        
           | smnrchrds wrote:
           | > MongoDB
           | 
           | Snapchat for your production data.
        
           | enbugger wrote:
           | >Chinese children considered harmful
        
         | cucumb3rrelish wrote:
         | not even 5 messages in and there is the first nazi carricature.
         | certified 4chan moment
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | I'm surprised there is no Encyclopedia Dramatica entry on Hacker
       | News.
        
       | azangru wrote:
       | Entrepreneurs? Dang, I thought this was a forum for programmers.
        
       | longtom wrote:
       | > hacker news
       | 
       | Where opinion is being manipulated by the U.S. security/military
       | complex.
        
       | sillysaurusx wrote:
       | > A place unknown to financially successful entrepreneurs.
       | 
       | That's because YC founders fled to Bookface many years ago, YC's
       | internal Hacker News.
       | 
       | A YC founder once saw me browsing HN and said "Huh, are you on
       | Bookface?"
       | 
       | I realized later that he'd never been to HN.
        
         | 1123581321 wrote:
         | Indeed. There is missing representation in conversations here
         | that make those absences conspicuous. You can see a similar
         | effect on, for example, a company Slack channel, and figure out
         | which groups of employees are having the same conversation on a
         | private channel. Nothing wrong with it unless the members of
         | the side group are obliged to participate in general
         | conversation, and they aren't here.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | That's sad, I wish they were still active here.
        
           | jimhi wrote:
           | We are. Most threads have at least one. I find the longer
           | they have been out of yc the less they are here though
        
         | eddieh wrote:
         | That, perhaps, explains the sometimes unexpected anti-
         | business/capitalist comments and sentiment here.
        
         | novok wrote:
         | So by bookface you mean a facebook group
        
           | sillysaurusx wrote:
           | I really want to say "yes" and see where the conversation
           | leads.
           | 
           | No, I meant Bookface, YC's internal clone of Hacker News.
        
             | xupybd wrote:
             | Does Dang moderate Bookface as well?
        
             | cblconfederate wrote:
             | I assume facebook will sue for trademark infringement them
             | if they use that name in public
        
       | topicseed wrote:
       | > _A website where unsuccessful entrepreneurs with egos waste
       | time browsing articles and websites, created by wanna-be
       | entrepreneurs with even bigger egos who are trying to build a
       | following._
       | 
       | > _A place unknown to financially successful entrepreneurs._
       | 
       | I always thought the bulk of HN was _not_ entrepreneurs but
       | employed engineers, curious minds, etc. Have I been deluded all
       | this time?
        
         | wayeq wrote:
         | I always thought the bulk of HN was tech folks that got too old
         | and grumpy for reddit.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | HN is part of Y Combinator (obvious from the URL) so there has
         | always been a bias toward entrepreneurship and startups.
         | 
         | In practice it tends to be mostly content from bored engineers.
         | Any social website like HN is inherently biased toward people
         | with the most time to burn, because they have the most time to
         | post. It turns out a lot of modern engineering jobs have _a
         | lot_ of free time at your desk in front of a computer, so those
         | are the people who post here most.
         | 
         | The actual entrepreneurs are usually too busy to post too much
         | on HN so they aren't heavily represented. Not absent, of
         | course, but it's hard to compete with the people who seem to
         | have infinite free time for social discussions.
         | 
         | HN can be interesting, but it's really difficult at times to
         | separate the signal from the noise. There's a lot of noise.
        
           | kortilla wrote:
           | It has nothing to do with free time. It's just a numbers
           | game. There are a lot more employees than there are
           | entrepreneurs.
        
           | Causality1 wrote:
           | A browser extension with some custom filtering rules could be
           | handy. I'd love to never open another blog post from someone
           | who thinks finding out that becoming internet famous for two
           | days is bad for you is some kind of revolutionary insight and
           | that everyone needs to hear about how stressful it was to be
           | tweeted at a lot.
        
         | EamonnMR wrote:
         | The original core audience was Paul Graham fans as far as I
         | know. I think I found HN because it was the thing Arc was used
         | for.
        
         | cblconfederate wrote:
         | judging from the upvoted topics there are probably more
         | marketing/hr/managerial people now than engineers/scientists
        
         | praptak wrote:
         | Count me in that group. I am a refugee from Slashdot, after I
         | had found out I hated their new threading UI.
        
         | pkdpic_y9k wrote:
         | Well, Im a shameless imposter masquerading as an employed
         | software engineer. Thats one. Or two maybe assuming you are?
        
           | meristohm wrote:
           | My primary work title is Dad/Homemaker, and I have an
           | interest in software development for improving learning, for
           | one.
        
       | leephillips wrote:
       | Fair or not, but more and more lately, when searching the web for
       | a useful take on a framework, library, language, or anything else
       | related to computers, I put in a "site:news.ycombinator.com".
       | This way I skip past the multiple pages of blogspam, advertising
       | (disguised or otherwise), and people copying each other's top-ten
       | lists, and might actually see a thoughtful comment or someone's
       | real experience.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | In DuckDuckGo, you could use the !hn bang (which takes you to
         | hn's Algolia search page).
        
           | leephillips wrote:
           | Thanks for pointing that out. Can also use the search box at
           | the bottom of HN pages.
        
       | jstx1 wrote:
       | There is also https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitHNSays/. It's not that
       | active but it has quite a few gems.
        
         | midwestemo wrote:
         | Probably my favorite one on there.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25791306
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | Seems about right to me.
        
       | beeboop wrote:
       | I think we all make the mistake sometimes of attaching too much
       | weight to the opinions we read online. For some reason I attach
       | more weight to HN opinions but after meeting a few frequent HN
       | posters in real life and seeing recent discussions about
       | vaccines, I no longer do this.
       | 
       | I realize this is a really shitty post and I wish I had the time
       | to rework it to sound less prissy.
        
       | bob229 wrote:
       | Sounds accurate to me. I come here because the MSM is garbage but
       | most of the commenters are narcissists with egos the size of
       | planets
        
       | neals wrote:
       | can confirm, am unsuccesful
        
       | kirykl wrote:
       | There's also a critical HN parody site
       | http://n-gate.com/hackernews/ Copy paste url as it apparently
       | intercepts the HN referer
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | n-gate is my favorite read. It restores my sanity.
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | Seems relatively accurate
        
       | api wrote:
       | HN is a lot of /r/iamverysmart except some people actually know
       | something.
        
       | pkdpic_y9k wrote:
       | Interesting (also funny), I never thought of HN from that angle.
       | Does this feel true to HN users or is it more a joke?
       | 
       | While I was transitioning to a software job I found myself
       | checking HN a lot because it seemed like a raw discussion forum
       | for what software engineers were thinking / talking about. Seemed
       | better than Reddit. Still haven't found a better alternative.
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | I think for some of us remote workers ...
         | 
         | [... Ha, my entire career! So we call it "remote" now? And its
         | considered a progressive perk? Awesome! For decades I just
         | thought I was "working in bed" and it wasn't something to talk
         | about ...]
         | 
         | ... really do need a facsimile for interesting and stimulating
         | water cooler conversation. Until I find that place, Hacker News
         | will do!
        
         | yoz-y wrote:
         | At least the part about wasting time does. Luckily there is the
         | noprocrast option.
        
         | t-writescode wrote:
         | I'm sure we've all seen posts here from people that make us
         | think very unkindly of the HN culture.
        
         | psyc wrote:
         | Such a missed opportunity. There are so many funnier tropes
         | about HN to mock. Personally, I think of HN as a place for
         | software developers to pontificate and nerd-snipe about
         | constitutional law, public health, economics, and more.
        
         | smoe wrote:
         | From my perspective HN is big enough that you can shape your
         | own experience by what links you are clicking. E.g. I feel I
         | haven't seen that much of the "entrepreneur" aspect, because I
         | don't frequent the typical startup topics much. Instead I'm
         | interested in the more timeless "philosophical" discussions
         | about software engineering in general where I always feel I get
         | something out of it or encounter further readings. Nothing live
         | changing so far, but interesting nonetheless.
        
       | based2 wrote:
       | everything2 used to be more like that.
        
       | blululu wrote:
       | This was from 2013. The general climate here has turned pretty
       | hostile to startups since then. The prevailing advice here is now
       | to land a FAAMG job and slack off with a high standard of living,
       | rather than slaving away at a startup to boost someone else's
       | capital. What remains is people sharing their side projects,
       | going off-topic and wasting their time one way or another.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | When did FAANG become FAAMG?
        
           | StreamBright wrote:
           | When Microsoft started to take Javascript seriously.
        
           | sxp wrote:
           | Personally, I still use FAANG and assume the N stands for
           | N\icrosoft.
        
           | Bayart wrote:
           | When Microsoft resurrected from the dumpster of tech and
           | became proactive again.
        
           | kartoshechka wrote:
           | it's the comment from the recent post "who else would put M
           | in FAANG besides a Microsoft employee?"
        
             | jstx1 wrote:
             | It makes some sense - if you replace Netflix with MS, the
             | list will be the 5 largest tech companies. Netflix is only
             | there because of how the term was coined in the first place
             | - FANG (originally without Apple) was a list of stocks that
             | Jim Cramer liked around 2013 and the acronym caught on and
             | evolved from there.
        
               | rdiddly wrote:
               | I always wondered why the hell Netflix was even on the
               | list, so thanks.
        
               | HPsquared wrote:
               | It's like the BRICs countries - Brazil doesn't really
               | fit.
        
               | FillardMillmore wrote:
               | Curious, is Jim Cramer generally respected by the crowd
               | that frequents HN?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | TuringNYC wrote:
               | Doubtful, but sometimes a good acronym is worth a
               | thousand words.
        
           | Nevermark wrote:
           | I had not come across FAAMG but I like it, even if I have
           | trouble saying it. ("MAGAF"? Hmmm. "GAAMF"?)
           | 
           | Netflix has never been an aspirational overlord type company
           | like the others.
           | 
           | Even though Microsoft is no longer at its peak, its dual
           | presence via OS and cloud keep it in sustainable wannabe
           | overlord position.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | dTal wrote:
             | Only wannabe? Aside from the niche and premium Apple
             | products, you can't walk into a brick and mortar store and
             | walk out with a PC that doesn't run Microsoft Windows. You
             | also can't run almost _any_ industrial software without
             | Windows. Good luck with any slightly unusual hardware
             | either. Gaming is still mainly Windows based.
             | 
             | They still have a tight stranglehold on desktop computing.
        
               | blueblisters wrote:
               | Most open-source projects exist on Github. VSCode is the
               | best and the most-used IDE. A good amount of code in the
               | future will likely be written using Copilot. Microsoft is
               | a software development productivity behemoth.
        
               | booleandilemma wrote:
               | VSCode is not an IDE, it's a text editor.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | Chromebooks?
        
             | croes wrote:
             | I thought it's G-MAFIA.
        
               | kubanczyk wrote:
               | Ah, Intel? Neat.
        
               | natchy wrote:
               | Facebook/Instagram?
        
             | jstx1 wrote:
             | Give Microsoft some credit - they're the second largest
             | company in the world with over $2 trillion market cap. Sure
             | we're not in the 90s anymore and their image, position in
             | the markets and in the zeitgest is a bit different but "not
             | at its peak" is a bit harsh.
             | 
             | As far as acronyms, I like FAAAM (replace Google with
             | Alphabet).
        
             | franky47 wrote:
             | We call them GAFAM in France.
        
             | asadlionpk wrote:
             | FAGMAN
        
               | pcthrowaway wrote:
               | NAGFAM
        
           | ThrowawayB7 wrote:
           | When the people who had been laughing at Microsoft for years
           | as being a washed up has-been came to the realization that it
           | currently has a valuation of over $2 trillion and is still
           | growing.
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | This is my favorite online place to waste time, after all. And
         | yes, I've given up any dreams of starting my own thing. You
         | pretty much just described me, except not FAAMG (but I am happy
         | where I'm at).
         | 
         | I don't mind this description at all (there's a freedom in
         | giving up even just the dream of the hustle).
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > The general climate here has turned pretty hostile to
         | startups since then. The prevailing advice here is now to land
         | a FAAMG job and slack off with a high standard of living
         | 
         | Some times I stumble upon really old HN threads in Google
         | searches and end up missing the quality of old HN discourse. It
         | was never perfect, of course. Nor is the modern version without
         | upsides, as there are often good pieces of wisdom if you sift
         | through enough noise in the comments.
         | 
         | However, modern HN just feels so deeply cynical, angry, and
         | negative with much less of the entrepreneurial tech optimism of
         | the older posts. It's also starting to feel weirdly
         | disconnected from reality in the way that the extremes of
         | Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook have become echo chambers after
         | consuming non-stop bad news. It's like people read so many
         | outrage tech stories here that they forget there is an upside
         | to the tech industry.
         | 
         | Big Tech hangs in a weird balance where we're simultaneously
         | supposed to hate and distrust FAANG companies but also at the
         | same time we're told to seek out FAANG jobs where we can
         | maximize compensation.
         | 
         | The key to enjoying HN is to ignore any thread remotely related
         | to politics, FAANG, social media, economics (where the comments
         | are actually just about politics), drugs, or open-source drama.
         | 
         | Sadly, the most interesting content links (great blog posts,
         | writings, knowledge, new projects, and so on) generally get
         | fewer upvotes than outrage topics. I try to make a point of
         | actively upvoting the content I want to see here every time I
         | visit.
        
           | 6510 wrote:
           | Politics should be interesting to a programmer if one can
           | write a program or use data to do something useful. (or talk
           | about doing that) You have to force the conversation in that
           | direction. Like for a chemist everything is about chemistry.
           | They know its not but pretending sure makes things a lot more
           | interesting.
        
           | ethelward wrote:
           | > However, modern HN just feels so deeply cynical, angry, and
           | negative with much less of the entrepreneurial tech optimism
           | of the older posts
           | 
           | Isn't that a direct reflection of the current state of the
           | tech world? Since the 00's, it has morphed from a rather
           | hacker-friendly, digital far-west into a locked-down
           | plutocracy dominated by a handful of gigantic corporations,
           | whose end-goal are quite often to squeeze every single last
           | bit of personal information or other valuable commodity they
           | can out of, typically, misinformed users.
           | 
           | E.g., despite all the folklore, I feel much better toward
           | 00's ``Linux is cancer'' MS and their Windows 2000 than
           | toward 2020's ``We <3 Linux'' MS that just spy on me through
           | Windows 10 and put ads in my start menu.
           | 
           | Similarly, I prefer the 90's ``we're making expensive and
           | original computers'' Apple to the 2020's ``we will scan all
           | the photos on your device'' Apple.
           | 
           | And it's not to single these two out, they're just the first
           | examples I'm thinking of. All in all, I just believe the
           | whole digital world is much more hostile now than it used to
           | be, which would, at least partially, account for the growing
           | apathy, cynicism and defiance in the community - it's hard to
           | feel any different when every other week brings a new
           | personal data leak, spyware scandal or privacy-infringement
           | affair, be it corporate- or state-sponsored.
        
           | orhmeh09 wrote:
           | Not everyone is the same as you. I enjoy immensely reading HN
           | posts and comments related to politics, FAANG, social media,
           | economics (where the comments are actually just about
           | politics), drugs, or open-source drama. I also like
           | interesting content links (great blog posts, writings,
           | knowledge, new projects, and so on). I don't get this mix
           | elsewhere and it's why I come here. Are you in the right
           | community?
        
           | N1H1L wrote:
           | I think we are all older now?
        
             | donaldihunter wrote:
             | Evergreen comment.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | teatree wrote:
           | So, is there another place on Internet which is better than
           | HN?
        
           | kilroy123 wrote:
           | My account is now older than a decade so I guess I'm an OG
           | here. (crazy) There's definitely been a big shift over the
           | years. But, I feel like this is just the general state of the
           | world right now.
           | 
           | The entire industry back then was so much more optimistic.
           | 
           | Personally, I only browser:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/classic
        
           | na85 wrote:
           | >However, modern HN just feels so deeply cynical, angry, and
           | negative with much less of the entrepreneurial tech optimism
           | of the older posts. It's also starting to feel weirdly
           | disconnected from reality in the way that the extremes of
           | Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook have become echo chambers after
           | consuming non-stop bad news. It's like people read so many
           | outrage tech stories here that they forget there is an upside
           | to the tech industry.
           | 
           | I dunno, I think the current atmosphere is more closely
           | aligned with the zeitgeist of society writ large than it was
           | previously.
           | 
           | That famed entrepreneurial optimism was born of a belief that
           | technology is inherently good, and that startups can change
           | the world.
           | 
           | The veil has been lifted and we see that most startups,
           | internet startups in particular, exist to provide lucrative
           | exits for the owners while abusing their users by harvesting
           | data and selling ads.
           | 
           | The promise of a tech-led utopia is a hollow farce. It's a
           | facade for the surveillance dystopia that big Internet
           | companies are creating.
           | 
           | With every iteration, user experience takes a back seat to
           | developer convenience, and devices are more powerful yet feel
           | sluggish because of the mountains of shitty abstraction
           | layers piled on. The companies that wield inordinate power
           | are giant faceless corporations acting with impunity and
           | whose decisions have no recourse.
           | 
           | Being a tech _user_ is an exercise in frustration. The world
           | sucks and Tech is making it worse.
        
             | systemvoltage wrote:
             | Zeitgeist is caused by the pandemic x social media outrage
             | x hardships due to lost jobs. Everyone is glued to the
             | internet and we've started to form factions.
             | 
             | It's hard to conjecture this, let alone prove it, but a
             | strawman take I feel like is adversarial foreign powers
             | have influenced the social media outrage narratives to
             | destroy the western spirit from inside out. HN is
             | reflecting larger trends. Western spirit was about putting
             | behind differences and doubling down on cooperation.
             | Looking back, from post-WWII to now, I get goosebumps and
             | feel sad that this is what we've become.
             | 
             | Nothing has changed in terms of good vs. evil of
             | technology. Fundamentals are still the same. Not even space
             | exploration has escaped HN's cynicism. It's time for me to
             | move onto some other place.
        
             | sillysaurusx wrote:
             | The zeitgeist of society writ large sucks. This has been
             | true in almost every society in almost every era. It's not
             | a happy thing to align oneself with.
             | 
             | The bubbles of optimistic outliers are the places that
             | affect society writ large. That's where to be.
        
               | eropple wrote:
               | And when those optimistic outliers are intended to
               | validate and glorify the folks who are out to sell ads or
               | your data?
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | What a boring trope. electric car companies, hardware
               | companies in general, b2b companies, eink, pinephone,
               | etc, etc.
               | 
               | These companies come across here every day. If you think
               | everything is about selling user data you aren't paying
               | attention.
        
           | AdrianB1 wrote:
           | The reduction in optimism may be related to the increased
           | experience with the topics discussed? For example the
           | internet boom of 2000 was caused by hyper-optimism, then
           | people learned to be more moderate and Internet really took
           | off. By comparison, the generation of 2003-2005 was less
           | optimistic, but not in a bad way.
        
             | Iamadog19782364 wrote:
             | I don't think it was learning to be more moderate, I think
             | niche communities were pervaded with new users, which in
             | turn caused a shift in culture and therefore later
             | developed into new moderation policy. It's also been
             | heavily corporatized as well, there are far less distal
             | independent entities being a "big deal" and more
             | centralization. But I haven't studied the patterns
             | extensively and this is just collective anecdotal
             | assessments of the shifts experienced from 2004 to present.
        
           | schmorptron wrote:
           | I haven't been browsing this site for more than like a year,
           | but have found it one of the places on the internet where
           | political discourse seems to be relatively tame and good-
           | faith for the most part. I've also learned a lot from the
           | blog posts you mentioned and really knowledgeable comments on
           | them. Is it really worse now?
        
             | nickff wrote:
             | Yes, it used to be much more optimistic and less cynical.
        
               | sillysaurusx wrote:
               | As someone who was here since day two of the public
               | launch, I'm not sure how true this is. It's true the
               | conversation has changed, but less cynical? More
               | optimistic?
               | 
               | The cynicism and optimism seems to have stayed more or
               | less constant. The quality of conversation is the
               | problem.
               | 
               | Luckily, quality tends to bubble to the top, barring
               | manual intervention that occasionally makes a few (few)
               | mistakes. So far.
               | 
               | The extremes are true: I've increasingly felt that people
               | here are disconnected from reality in a way not seen in
               | previous years. I'm not quite sure how to put it into
               | words, and it deserves a substantive eloquence beyond my
               | capabilities at the moment.
        
               | codemonkey-zeta wrote:
               | "I think we're more cynical"
               | 
               | "I think we're less"
               | 
               | "I'd say it's the same"
               | 
               | It should be pretty straightforward to actually figure
               | this out by sampling posts from different HN "eras" and
               | doing sentiment analysis.
               | 
               | What's the standard practice for sentiment analysis these
               | days?
        
               | Isamu wrote:
               | Agreed.
               | 
               | > I've increasingly felt that people here are
               | disconnected from reality in a way not seen in previous
               | years.
               | 
               | Well, I don't think that is surprising given the rise of
               | popularity of HN. The early days had people interested in
               | startups, and hence their virtues, and later came a large
               | crowd that had some interest in tech but had random
               | alignments.
               | 
               | I feel that human beliefs form a distribution where
               | almost anything will believed by someone, and if you
               | gather a large enough crowd you can find a large cohort
               | that will earnestly believe various nonsense things.
        
               | teatree wrote:
               | Are there any places similar to HN on the internet where
               | one can find high quality, non political, non religious,
               | non news conversations?
        
               | systemvoltage wrote:
               | Head over to lobste.rs, not much activity but it fits
               | your description.
               | 
               | HN's political discourse has been quite unpleasant since
               | last couple of years. Used to be quite a gamut of
               | perspectives, now it is completely lopsided.
        
               | nickff wrote:
               | The political downvoting has also increased dramatically.
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | Worth noting you have to be invited to join Lobste.rs (by
               | a current member). I'm not one, but the discussions there
               | are often interesting - IME about half the stories I've
               | seen here first and on those stories in general the
               | Lobsters threads are a bit more technical and a bit more
               | focused.
               | 
               | I quite like the 'what are you doing this weekend
               | threads' it feels very small-community-like. [But that
               | might just be that I've often felt a lack of tech
               | community - as an example, I've used Linux for >20 years
               | and don't have anyone in my life I could have a
               | conversation about it with like you might chat to a
               | neighbour/friend about pruning a tree or fixing your
               | car.]
        
             | dageshi wrote:
             | Yeah, it is. To put it bluntly, it's a lot of internet
             | boomers venting about how everything is terrible.
        
             | IAmEveryone wrote:
             | It's tame in that people will opine that women are too
             | stupid for IT, but they will do so very politely.
             | 
             | HN moderators are very proud of being accused at roughly
             | equal rates from both of the US political tribes. That's
             | the sort of triangulation leading to _false balance_ even
             | local journalists have managed to pick up over the last
             | decade, where they still exist.
             | 
             | I'd really prefer if they flipped a coin and grew a spine.
             | Is George Soros eating babies or not? Answering that
             | question with a shrug isn't _neutrality_. For anyone in a
             | position of even minor power over the discourse, it 's
             | dereliction of duty.
             | 
             | Practically, it means that any even barely political
             | question on HN is discussed on a level where I could write
             | both sides of the discourse in my sleep. If it's SF housing
             | it's going to be "you don't want homeless people around
             | where you life if you have children" vs. "you do know not
             | all homeless people are violent, right?".
             | 
             | In the process, everyone retreats to their corners. The
             | "virus lab leak" idea, in its first incarnation, was not
             | something I'd be willing to explore, because allowing any
             | possibility of it would immediately be weaponised by people
             | pushing the idea that it was an _intentional_ release of a
             | _biological weapon_ , an idea with completely different
             | ramifications that was, nonetheless, superficially similar
             | and closely linked.
             | 
             | Any tread on COVID is 90% fighting over "it's just the flu"
             | (very beginning), then hydroxywhatever, and lately
             | ivermectinopleasedont. In that regard, I truly doubt the
             | comments are representative of even the readership of HN,
             | let alone the US public, and even less the world's public.
             | 
             | Opinion on "mainstream media" is probably the most out-of-
             | wack compared to opinions generally voiced in polite
             | company. It's enough for a story to be published by the NYT
             | to get a dozen comments often not even arguing that, but
             | assuming everyone agrees with, the idea that everything
             | they write is a lie. This may be an outcrop of the single
             | uniting characteristic of commenters: they love to be
             | contrarian. So much so, on this issue they all agree.
             | "Actually", they tell each other with the mannerisms of a
             | big truth being revealed, "I am much too smart to believe
             | what everyone is believing". And if that means water isn't
             | wet, so be it.
        
       | conradfr wrote:
       | I would have been more interested in the Encyclopedia Dramatica
       | page about HN ;)
        
       | self_buddliea wrote:
       | I'm aware of the philosophy behind HN and the dictionary entry
       | alludes to this. From my experience it's more focussed on
       | technology and a liking of knowledge in general.
       | 
       | On the other hand, I still find this amusing.
        
       | Nevermark wrote:
       | It is good humor.
       | 
       | An Onion article would be even greater praise.
       | 
       | On a more serious note, I for one plan on continuing to lurk and
       | comment here until I achieve the unprecedented entrepreneurial
       | financial success that I know my lurking and commenting here more
       | than qualify me for!
        
         | weare138 wrote:
         | https://www.theolognion.com/ai-solves-all-political-economic...
        
       | donaldihunter wrote:
       | This thread! Talking about ourselves in an ironic / un-ironic /
       | post-ironic way. There is room for more meta hacker news.
        
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