[HN Gopher] Facebook suppressed report that made it look bad
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       Facebook suppressed report that made it look bad
        
       Author : underscore_ku
       Score  : 214 points
       Date   : 2021-08-21 15:51 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | saltmeister wrote:
       | oh no!
        
       | bryan0 wrote:
       | The most-viewed headline in the quarter was:
       | 
       | > "A 'healthy' doctor died two weeks after getting a COVID-19
       | vaccine; CDC is investigating why."
       | 
       | Yeah not a great look.
        
         | classified wrote:
         | ...as a result of their enragement-optimizing algo. Now they
         | are getting a report showing the effects of their own
         | manipulations. What a surprise!
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | That death has since been investigated and determined to be
         | natural causes.
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/...
        
           | ctoth wrote:
           | Does anyone else enjoy the linguistic contortions this
           | article must engage in to spin this poor doctor's cause of
           | death as "natural?" Even writing this comment makes me feel
           | like some sort of weird anti-vaccer but seriously what the
           | heck, words have meanings and I am going to push back against
           | this! Sometimes, vaccines, just like literally anything else,
           | have negative side effects. It sucks, but to pretend that oh,
           | this was just a natural death? This seriously makes people
           | look insane. What the heck possibly motivated you to post
           | this and spin it like that? Did you read the link you posted?
           | Or did you merely post this because it was sufficiently
           | ridiculous and you are making a meta point?
        
             | ineedasername wrote:
             | The medical examiner classified it as natural and a causal
             | relationship with the vaccine couldn't be determined.
             | Normal healthy people die of sudden illnesses sometimes,
             | and with millions upon millions of vaccinations then
             | "sometimes" is occasionally going to be "shortly after
             | getting vaccinated."
             | 
             | Without more evidence, those occurrences merely corelate in
             | time, in which case going further than making it a mere
             | foot note is a _post hoc ergo propter hoc_ mistake.
        
             | hellbannedguy wrote:
             | There are already too many people out there afraid to get a
             | vaccine.
             | 
             | Unless we know for sure, why stir up the pot especially
             | with speculation.
             | 
             | A few weeks ago I got an email from an acquaintance that
             | was in perfect health, and young, from Marin General
             | hospital.
             | 
             | They put him on a ventaliator because of Covid.
             | 
             | He is out now, but will be on blood thinners for 6 months.
             | He had blood clots in his lungs. 23, and an exercise nut.
             | 
             | Every member of his family were anti-vax, until they saw
             | him through the glass.
             | 
             | They all have the first shot of Pfizer.
        
               | deworms wrote:
               | No shortage of fake scary stories whenever anyone
               | suggests that there might be anything wrong with the
               | vaccines, but discussing that possibility is a huge
               | taboo, no matter how probable it may be. At this point
               | even if they're massively flawed you'll be forbidden from
               | suggesting that.
        
               | ctoth wrote:
               | I mean obviously anyone with any grasp of numbers will
               | look at the balance of probabilities, note that Vaccines
               | have an incredibly low risk compared to Covid, and get
               | vaccinated. This does not mean that we should literally
               | lie about those risks when they do occur!
               | 
               | When you think you're smarter than someone and so you're
               | going to shape their information in such a way that they
               | do what you want them to? This is called manipulation. It
               | is a dark art. it is evil. Don't do it.
        
               | deworms wrote:
               | Depending on the demographic you're in the vaccine risk
               | might not be worth it.
        
               | ianlevesque wrote:
               | There is literally no demographic where the mRNA vaccines
               | are risker than COVID-19. None.
        
               | vorticalbox wrote:
               | You have to agree its somewhat confusing when governments
               | (in the UK anyway) are pushing hard while you have
               | professors like Sir Andrew Pollard (Paediatric Infection
               | and Immunity Oxford)
               | 
               | Stating in Parliament that the herd immunity will never
               | happen.
               | 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-
               | variant-...
        
               | ineedasername wrote:
               | I don't find it confusing. Even experts can disagree, and
               | even if we never, or can't ever, reach herd immunity
               | there is still a perfectly good reason for someone to get
               | vaccinated for their own safety.
        
               | makomk wrote:
               | It's not that inconsistent from a UK perspective, I don't
               | think. The government is still pushing vaccination hard
               | because it protects the people being vaccinated from
               | hospitalization and death and reduces the rate at which
               | Covid spreads, both of which guard against hospitals
               | being overwhelmed, but the idea of vaccinations stopping
               | Covid altogether is pretty much dead here. Official
               | policy is that we'll have to learn to live with the
               | virus.
               | 
               | I know the US media and medical establishment has still
               | been pushing hard on the idea that they could have herd
               | immunity and stop the virus spreading if it wasn't for
               | the evil anti-vaxxers ruining it for everyone, but that
               | seems to be founded more in partisan politics than actual
               | evidence. There's also a lot of pressure on any US
               | publication that runs articles about how ineffective the
               | vaccines seem to be against people catching and spreading
               | Delta not to do so.
        
               | mionhe wrote:
               | I may be totally wrong here, but I think the point
               | they're trying to make is that a lot of people are
               | hesitant to get the new vaccines, despite how well
               | they're working and the (for the most part) lack of side
               | effects, because they keep hearing conflicting
               | information about those vaccines. It's hard to feel
               | confident about something when people who are for
               | something are busy saying that there are _no_ negative
               | side effects at all, while others are pointing out that
               | 's untrue in some cases.
               | 
               | Rather than withhold information, it's better to treat
               | people as adults, and give them the whole picture so that
               | they can make a decision with all the available
               | information. The example of your acquaintance is a good
               | one, I think, to demonstrate how people are willing to
               | change their mind when they have more of the facts. (In
               | this case, the reality of how bad things can be, and I
               | would guess more accurate information about the vaccines
               | from doctors on-site.)
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | I'd love if people were just giving the whole picture and
               | the facts. It seems to be difficult to find said truth
               | behind all the lies and misinformation out there.
        
           | hellgas00 wrote:
           | That's not exactly what the article you post says;
           | 
           | "Dr. Gregory Michael's official cause of death stemmed from
           | complications with immune thrombocytopenia, or ITP, a blood
           | disorder caused by an immune reaction, after getting the
           | Pfizer vaccine, the Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner
           | Department said."
        
             | slownews45 wrote:
             | What's interesting is that an immune reaction is the GOAL
             | of a vaccine. How did they turn this into "natural causes".
             | 
             | BTW I'm fully vaxed and looking forward to my booster. But
             | I'm not dumb enough to imagine there is no side effect to a
             | vacine that is designed to generate something in my blood
             | to help me fight covid. Blood / heart stuff seems like a
             | somewhat natural area to find occasional side effects?
        
               | cxf12 wrote:
               | You don't have to imagine it. Side affects are tracked by
               | the CDC.
        
       | Chazprime wrote:
       | Color me surprised.
        
       | wolverine876 wrote:
       | The actual NY Times article which broke the story is also on the
       | front page:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28257958
        
       | gojomo wrote:
       | Alt headline: To support public health priorities, Facebook
       | withheld report that risked spreading vaccine fears.
       | 
       | It's all how you spin it!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | thethethethe wrote:
       | In other news: water is wet
        
         | esalman wrote:
         | Surprised Pikachu face.
        
       | hhsub wrote:
       | They should've amplified it instead. Posted it on the login page.
        
       | marto1 wrote:
       | So they are at the same time both neutral and heavily biased.
       | Isn't that true innovation - being the first company to exist in
       | a quantum superposition :-)
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | They're hardly the first.
         | 
         | Every media company is unbiased-but-not.
        
           | nowherebeen wrote:
           | Marketing vs reality
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | FB suppressing the accounts of the NYU researchers was a deeply
         | problematic.
         | 
         | FB choosing not to release a report that they, themselves
         | generated, was FB acting as any corporation does.
         | 
         | If every company was assigned an internal watchdog whose
         | reports they couldn't suppress, I'd be fine with that. But
         | that's not happening and companies have the freedom to publish
         | or not publish whatever information they choose.
        
       | jqpabc123 wrote:
       | Wait? So FB needs a report to make it look bad?
        
       | peterlk wrote:
       | For anyone else who looks at the comments first, there is nothing
       | to see here. I was hoping for a link to the original report, but
       | this article just states that some VP didn't want an internally
       | generated report to go out because the top shared content wasn't
       | a good look.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-21 23:01 UTC)