[HN Gopher] The Ruin of War
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       The Ruin of War
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2021-08-20 15:52 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (acoup.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (acoup.blog)
        
       | kbenson wrote:
       | My excitement for another ACOUP post is only mitigated by how far
       | behind I am in reading other posts on the site and how I just
       | keep getting farther behind.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Their output is prodigious, it's like putting out a masters
         | thesis every month.
        
           | jbellis wrote:
           | Yes, it's truly astounding. It's just one guy and he actually
           | IS putting out journal articles in his day job, as well as
           | teaching classes. Really phenomenal and my favorite Patreon
           | subscription.
        
       | D-Coder wrote:
       | "This is the second part of a three part series (I) examining the
       | historical assumptions of Paradox Interactive's 19th and early
       | 20th century grand strategy game, Victoria II."
       | 
       | So it's about a game (which is fine), not real life (which one
       | might assume from the title).
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | As others have already noted, the game is used more as a prop
         | to explain real history.
         | 
         | However, if you don't like this approach, there are posts on
         | ACOUP that approach history more directly. For example, here's
         | an excellent recent series that tackle the issue of the Roman
         | ethnic identity:
         | 
         | https://acoup.blog/2021/06/11/collections-the-queens-latin-o...
        
         | vkou wrote:
         | The author is a real-life historian that analyses depictions of
         | history in popular culture - and contrasts them with what
         | actually happened / how historians currently look at history.
        
         | bitbckt wrote:
         | Read more of the article, and challenge that over-eager
         | assessment.
        
         | kiba wrote:
         | It is using a game to teach real life.
        
           | dragontamer wrote:
           | I've seen this play out so many times though.
           | 
           | If you use SimCity and play optimally, everyone's life-
           | expectancy sucks and remains uneducated, because those two
           | stats literally don't matter. So you end up never building a
           | hospital or school.
           | 
           | So people then point out mega-cities or whatever, and argue
           | that the dystopian future has terrible health care and
           | education. But... this is more a function of the game rather
           | than the actual real world.
        
             | kiba wrote:
             | It is more like comparing the game to real life to see how
             | they hold up and teach how real life works than using a
             | game simulation to say that's how life works.
             | 
             | It's like asking a master spy for his opinion on spy
             | movies. They tell you what's real and what's bunk.
        
             | rrsmtz wrote:
             | The author's previous series on Europa Universalis IV
             | greatly emphasized that the game simulates a specific model
             | of states, rather than trying to portray reality perfectly.
             | This model is very similar to fields in Political Science
             | such as realpolitik. Sim City is the same thing for high
             | modernism in urban planning.
             | 
             | I'd guess the reason for the division between optimal Sim
             | City cities and cities in reality doesn't come from the
             | game being a poor model, but that the high modernism model
             | of urban planning has ridiculous conclusions.
        
             | jcranmer wrote:
             | Well, what the author is doing is a) using these games to
             | explain themes of history (e.g., interstate relations,
             | internal political tensions within the Long 19th Century),
             | and b) critiquing how mechanics in these games do or do not
             | reflect the history. It's the same vein of a city planner
             | explaining how SimCity does and doesn't reflect real-life
             | city planning, and such discussions absolutely do exist.
             | 
             | Of course, one of the challenges of a historical game is
             | that pop history does exist to a larger degree than other
             | subjects, and you can get ferocious arguments of the
             | historicity of the game where people use incorrect pop
             | history as the basis. For EU4, colonization is absolutely
             | in that boat; after the most recent patch, there is a vocal
             | crowd about how ahistorical it is that North America is now
             | filled with lots of natives that have to be conquered
             | rather than empty land to be passively colonized.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-20 23:00 UTC)