[HN Gopher] The End of Social Media
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The End of Social Media
        
       Author : miikavonbell
       Score  : 108 points
       Date   : 2021-08-20 13:24 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (miikavonbell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (miikavonbell.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | YouTube is the only "social network" that I can defend. I
       | honestly think it's the very best thing to ever come out of the
       | Web. The key to it though is using it without a Google login and
       | with cookies disabled. This gives you the default algorithm free
       | experience and forces you to engage your brain to _think_ about
       | what you want to see, rather than being spoon fed down a rabbit
       | hole.
        
         | ebiester wrote:
         | If you want to see it with this lens, then look at "trending."
         | I don't tend to have an issue with the algorithm - I like that
         | I get amateur science, humor, and puzzles.
         | 
         | I don't use it to watch political content, so I don't get much
         | of it.
        
         | criticaltinker wrote:
         | Being logged out and having cookies disabled definitely helps,
         | but in my experience it's almost not enough.
         | 
         | I need to access Youtube from a completely different IP
         | address, with a different user agent and browser window size to
         | get rid of certain themes and suggestions that magically appear
         | on the front page. Browser fingerprinting is responsible for
         | this adversarial dynamic I find myself in.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Before youtube you still had video sharing services online.
         | Youtube was one of like a dozen popular video sites before it
         | started consuming the market like a black hole, or Standard
         | Oil.
        
         | mbg721 wrote:
         | I had done this in a new browser because my work once used it
         | to stream a meeting, and I was shocked how tabloid-trashy the
         | default front-page suggestions were. I can't believe that's
         | what a plurality of people would want without the algorithms.
        
           | jjoonathan wrote:
           | I can believe the tabloid trash is what people want: I've
           | seen supermarket checkout aisles and daytime TV, the depths
           | of the lowest common denominator have been plumbed before and
           | it seems reasonable that youtube would arrive at much the
           | same place. I can understand occasionally wanting to check
           | the popular content for neat trends that you missed out on,
           | but the idea of seeking out the pop / tabloid experience as
           | your main interaction mechanism is foreign and slightly
           | revolting to me. It's not an escape from the algorithm, it's
           | just another side of the algorithm, and not the best one.
           | 
           | IMO the curated youtube experience is far better. Yes, it
           | recommends similar content and will push you down a
           | rabbithole if you let it, but that's what recommender systems
           | do. The flipside of discovering good content from good
           | choices is discovering bad content from bad choices, and I
           | don't think those can be automatically separated. On occasion
           | you have to actively and firmly tell the algorithm "no" in
           | the form of "don't recommend this channel," but once you do
           | it respects your decision. A tiny bit of curation goes a long
           | way, and if if I didn't let youtube work with me to figure
           | out what I liked I imagine I would wind up doing the same
           | thing but worse by keeping a list of interesting channels
           | that I periodically checked.
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | In my experience, Youtube only works as a curated experience,
           | which means being logged into an account, having
           | subscriptions, an active search history, etc.
        
         | mod50ack wrote:
         | I just use it to watch my subscriptions and things I
         | specifically search for. With an adblocker so I can tolerate
         | it, and sponsorblock for good measure. On Android I use NewPipe
         | + sponsorblock.
         | 
         | I'm not addicted to YouTube. I don't spend that much time on
         | it. It's not my go-to source when I go online. Maybe I'm in the
         | minority, but when you treat it only as a video hosting service
         | where you can follow specific feeds, I don't think it's really
         | problematic.
        
         | volume wrote:
         | one middle ground I have taken for Youtube is to periodically
         | delete my watch history. I am naturally curious so then when I
         | watch a new niche I welcome Youtube's flood of new content.
        
         | goatkey wrote:
         | This may be an unpopular opinion, but I really enjoy YouTube
         | Premium. It's nice to have the option to pay for an ad free
         | experience, which is particularly useful on iOS mobile as
         | uBlock origin doesn't work. Having the ability to easily
         | download videos for offline viewing and turn off auto play
         | (which I think is also available without premium) is nice, too.
         | 
         | I am sure they are still hoovering up all my data but I hope
         | they at least heed the signal that some people will pay for ad-
         | free alternatives!
        
           | OrvalWintermute wrote:
           | Your opinion may be unpopular, but I appreciate the
           | perspective you bring to the table.
           | 
           | I do think there is merit to the idea of market segmentation
           | and value offerings in different ways:
           | 
           | 1 - Eyeballs : Give us attention in exchange for browsing
           | 
           | 2 - Premium : Pay us, and we will omit all ads
           | 
           | 3 - VendorCosted: Vendor pays, and we omit all ads from
           | certain content
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | >YouTube is the only "social network" that I can defend.
         | 
         | What about Hacker News?
        
       | gpsx wrote:
       | I don't think anyone likes advertising, but that does bankroll
       | the internet. There are some great content providers on youtube
       | who do that full time and make a living from it. Even many basic
       | sites owe their existence to advertising because running a server
       | is not free. But the joke in on the advertisers. Internet
       | advertising doesn't work, or at least that is what I have read.
       | 
       | If we hadn't had advertising but instead came up with some
       | micropayment formalism, I bet the internet never would have
       | developed to be what it is today, even for today's content that
       | is not ad driven.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I don't know if it's actually a plausible outcome, but take
         | advertising out of the equation and you probably end up with a
         | significantly more limited Internet that's mostly accessed from
         | institutional accounts (as was originally the case) and by
         | individuals who are fine with a fairly expensive subscription
         | fee.
         | 
         | ADDED: I do tend to think the commercialization of the Internet
         | with advertising was probably inevitable, but someone could
         | probably construct at least a vaguely plausible narrative
         | around a less commercialized post-NSFNET world.
        
       | monkeynotes wrote:
       | Social media isn't over, just as trash TV, and entertainment
       | parading as news isn't over.
        
         | marto1 wrote:
         | It's also incredibly potent for spreading propaganda. I doubt
         | any of the big players want to give any of that power just yet
         | :-)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jaredcwhite wrote:
       | I don't fully understand the point of the article, but there's my
       | take anyway. ;-)
       | 
       | I pay for YouTube Premium so I don't get any ads on YouTube. And
       | I don't really care about the (crappy) algorithm because I only
       | watch what I subscribe to.
       | 
       | I hope Twitter's utility will similarly increase as they pivot to
       | (a) premium paid services, and (b) open protocols via BlueSky.
       | 
       | Glass is a new social media photography app for iOS that feels a
       | lot like early Instagram, but it's a paid service with no ads.
       | 
       | So yeah, perhaps it's the end of social media as we knew it...but
       | that's fine because new and existing services will adapt to
       | provide people premium experiences (for a fee of course).
       | 
       | Remember, we are the internet. If we don't like what it is, we
       | can build something better.
        
       | joghues wrote:
       | It's just that people are making the most out of social media.
       | Others have decided to make a hustle out of it, and it's not a
       | bad thing as it allows other people to have money to put food on
       | their table.
        
       | LOOKOUT wrote:
       | One of the best features of a jailbroken iPhone is the ability to
       | hide all ads on YouTube / Spotify / Instagram / Twitter / TikTok.
       | 
       | I feel impervious to social media advertising & you can too if
       | you just go through the effort.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Is there an untethered jailbreak these days?
        
           | LOOKOUT wrote:
           | jailbreaks are currently described as semi-tethered.
           | 
           | meaning a jailbreak app must be ran after a phone has booted.
           | your phone stays jailbroken as long as it does not power
           | down.
           | 
           | it is functionally untethered. as the app that jailbreaks the
           | phone persists through reboots.
           | 
           | there are firmware restrictions where these methods work
           | however.
        
       | bodge5000 wrote:
       | "The end of social media" is quite a lofty statement, bearing in
       | mind that facebook, twitter, ect... are social media, but social
       | media isnt facebook, twitter.
       | 
       | It'd be like if there were some massive drama involving Netflix
       | and YouTube. You wouldnt call it the end of streaming, or web
       | based video. There'd be a massive shift in the market certainly,
       | and I think eventually social media will look completely
       | different to how it looks now, but thats not the end.
       | 
       | It might sound like I'm arguing over semantics but I'd disagree.
        
       | lsalvatore wrote:
       | Most instagram ads are more entertaining and insightful than this
       | article. Advertising is actually about educating the consumer for
       | many products, and I think we're moving more toward personal ads
       | that don't feel like ads. Sometimes you come across an ad that
       | helps you or even changes your life. Things like new games, books
       | or ideas. This article has nothing to do with the end of social
       | media.
        
         | nicce wrote:
         | > Advertising is actually about educating the consumer for many
         | products, and I think we're moving more toward personal ads
         | that don't feel like ads.
         | 
         | They try to make consumer to buy the product in all means.
         | Which means, that this education is often very far away from
         | facts in the most of the cases.
        
       | markbnj wrote:
       | >> Some time ago I tried to find information about Crocodiles,
       | the animals. Instead, I got results about Crocs shoes and zero
       | information about the actual crocodiles.
       | 
       | I just entered 'crocodile' into Google search while signed into
       | my normal private account, and got a ton of useful information
       | about crocodiles. Shoes were nowhere to be found in the first 30
       | or 40 results that I scanned. I don't know if the OP is using a
       | different search engine that is more blatant about ads.
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | the OP probably searched for 'Crocs'. Even DDG floods the front
         | page with the footwear. I'm not sure this is a great example.
        
           | chrisseaton wrote:
           | > the OP probably searched for 'Crocs'
           | 
           | Why would you do that when searching for crocodiles?
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Because it's shorter and is a common term for crocodiles in
             | various places where they're common.
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | Not sure it's reasonable to search an international
               | search engine with a regional slang and then complain
               | when it doesn't recognise it.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | It is when that search engine has been telling you for
               | 20+ years to let them collect all your data because in
               | exchange you get personalized search results.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I don't disagree. As soon as I started typing I would
               | realize that crocs would probably turn up the shoe.
               | However, to the degree that people routinely use
               | regionalisms, it's easy to see why they might use them
               | reflexively. Of course, it's also easy to see why a
               | search engine might not return the results they expect.
        
               | FalconSensei wrote:
               | it's also the exact name of a famous brand of footwear
        
         | Gunax wrote:
         | This might be a bad example, since crocs and crocodiles are
         | different words. But in some regions, 'croc' is used much more
         | often than 'crocodile' in the same way that Americans say
         | 'sitcom' much more often than 'situational comedy'. Even though
         | it's an abbreviation, it's eclipsed the full word in frequency.
         | 
         | But I think the author's general point isn't about the
         | information being unavailable (even if croc was the whole word,
         | you can just write 'croc animal') but about the internet being
         | engineered as a distraction machine. He didn't set out to look
         | for shoes--but once they were presented, suddenly he found
         | himself shoe shopping _despite having no internet in purchasing
         | shoes_.
        
           | whoooooo123 wrote:
           | Is there anywhere in the English-speaking world where people
           | say "situational comedy" instead of "sitcom"? I don't think
           | I've ever heard anyone say "situational comedy" once in my
           | life, unless they were answering the question "what is sitcom
           | short for?"
        
             | Kye wrote:
             | Useful data:
             | 
             | https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=GB&q=
             | s...
             | 
             | https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sitcom%2C+sit
             | u...
             | 
             | It looks like sitcom ran in parallel below situation comedy
             | from the start, then sitcom took over with the boom in the
             | 1980s. Situation comedy never went away, but it never came
             | close once they diverged.
        
           | markbnj wrote:
           | Fair enough, and yeah searching for 'crocs' unsurprisingly
           | returns a boatload of shoe results. This is a broader issue I
           | think, in that coming up with good search terms that are
           | likely to return the results you need is a bit of a skill.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | I searched Crocodiles on YouTube, lots of good quality results
         | that I saw.
        
       | sillycross wrote:
       | I completely agree with the author's rants on machine learning
       | algorithm.
       | 
       | > consuming content through internet has become more and more
       | manipulative.
       | 
       | This is 100% true. With those ML-based "personalized" info feed,
       | users keep getting pushed biased information that _matches their
       | prejudice_ and is not a reflection of the true picture.
       | 
       | I'm actually dubious that what fraction of the pro-Trump
       | conspiracy theorists had developed their conspiracy views "thanks
       | to" Facebook et al's ML-based info suggestion algorithms.
        
       | thickened wrote:
       | Miika-
       | 
       | This article is a dog whistle for right-wing behaviour and is
       | quite frankly problematic, starting with this quip in the first
       | paragraph which sets the stage: "[...] instead of letting
       | algorithms and machine learning decide what is good for you."
       | 
       | We've spent a good twenty years now, and longer really, building
       | the infrastructure to ensure that when it comes to the World Wide
       | Web, FAAMNG+ companies - not just restricted to US-centric ones
       | but globally really - can make sure that the things you see, and
       | the way the algorithms work, are done in a way that is good for
       | you.
       | 
       | I used to be against mass surveillance, logging everything, but
       | seeing this kind of an article in 2021 sends shivers up my spine.
       | I'm quite worried. Is this what we should look into next?
        
         | claytongulick wrote:
         | > This article is a dog whistle for right-wing behaviour and is
         | quite frankly problematic
         | 
         | Every time I see a sentence like this, I interpret it as the
         | first step of an attempt to reduce speech.
         | 
         | Step 1: Identify 'problematic' content.
         | 
         | Step 2: Create rules to limit the distribution of 'problematic'
         | content.
         | 
         | Step 3: Broaden the definition of 'problematic' content to
         | include anything that disagrees with a specific point of view.
         | 
         | Step 4: Dystopian hell straight from Orwell.
         | 
         | > can make sure that the things you see, and the way the
         | algorithms work, are done in a way that is good for you.
         | 
         | Is this a 'woosh' moment? Is this intended to be satire?
         | 
         | > I used to be against mass surveillance, logging everything
         | 
         | > Is this what we should look into next?
         | 
         | If this is satire, can you please clarify?
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I don't think anyone on the Left wants to give the Right
         | ownership of the idea that algorithmic advertisements and
         | social media are mostly bad.
         | 
         | > We've spent a good twenty years now, and longer really,
         | building the infrastructure to ensure that when it comes to the
         | World Wide Web, FAAMNG+ companies - not just restricted to US-
         | centric ones but globally really - can make sure that the
         | things you see, and the way the algorithms work, are done in a
         | way that is good for you.
         | 
         | Wait, maybe I'm being hit by Poe's law here -- is your post
         | actually sarcasm?
        
       | donretag wrote:
       | Here is my take: content creators are the problem.
       | 
       | When Friendster, MySpace,Facebook, et al started, it was about
       | connecting friends online. People that already had a connection.
       | When you shared something, you wanted to share something personal
       | with friends. YouTube was about sharing your home videos. Not for
       | money, but for actually sharing. What a strange concept!
       | 
       | Then people noticed you can monetize their content. No longer was
       | it about sharing with friends, but creating for profit.
       | 
       | Social networks, as they were envisioned, are a great concept. As
       | a method for distributing content to be monetized, not so much.
        
         | ridethebike wrote:
         | Nothing bad with creating fun stuff for profit.
         | 
         | And over the last decade youtube creators has been providing
         | content with quality way superior compared to what more
         | traditional entertainment industry has been producing (mainly
         | marvel junk food, low effort remakes and SNL)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | FooHentai wrote:
           | >Nothing bad with creating fun stuff for profit.
           | 
           | I think that's an oversimplification of the issue. OPs main
           | point (as I read it) was that once a profit motive became
           | dominant, it pushed out enthusiast/passion-motivated content
           | creators, and as a result the output is distorted towards
           | that which is profitable.
        
         | nonameiguess wrote:
         | Maybe at one point social networks were actually social
         | networks, but that isn't what they are any more. They're
         | poorly-moderated, poorly-curated entertainment distribution
         | platforms. People who own data centers and URLs figured out you
         | can cut out the middlemen of studios, editors, publishers, et
         | al, and the quality of content may go way down, but the
         | quantity will go way up and cost to produce will go way down,
         | in many cases to zero if you just let arbitrary users create
         | your content for you, and engagement was never correlated with
         | quality anyway.
         | 
         | The fact that consumers as well as creators need permanent
         | accounts in order to use the platform enabled a level of
         | tracking that normal studios and publishers could never have
         | dreamed of. Warners could never put activity loggers into their
         | viewer's eyeballs to figure out the exact rate at which the
         | content of frame N leads them to continue watching at frame N +
         | n. They had to rely on some level of positive word of mouth and
         | positive reviews. They needed to leave some lasting impression
         | that after their viewers spent a few minutes going home and
         | thinking about it, they still thought the content was worth
         | recommending.
         | 
         | That is all gone now.
        
           | naravara wrote:
           | > and engagement was never correlated with quality anyway.
           | 
           | Well it's a different style of engagement and a different
           | standard for "quality" from what we colloquially think of
           | those terms to mean. Traditional media needed you to engage
           | with the media. Social media needs you to engage with the
           | comment section associated with the media. The qualities the
           | system is optimizing for, then, isn't the stuff we typically
           | consider to be good for that medium. Instead it's the stuff
           | that's good for making people talk about it.
           | 
           | This is almost certainly to blame for things always
           | gravitating towards largely subjective evaluations of where
           | something falls on some axis for a highly charged metric. Is
           | this racist or not racist? Queer friendly or unfriendly?
           | Liberal of conservative? Arguing about how to 'keep score'
           | with which boxes any specific bit of media gets is a good way
           | to say something about something topical that keeps people
           | engaged and arguing.
           | 
           | Even in the days of the old blogosphere it was well known
           | that you needed to have a comments section to get the page
           | views. You can only crank out so many articles as an
           | individual. But you can make your site "stickier" and
           | encourage people to keep clicking the bookmark for it if you
           | can get them engaged with talking about your article. It's
           | not surprise that the most noxious elements of the modern
           | Internet were more-or-less born on Reddit and Tumblr. These
           | were two sites that basically thrived on creating selective
           | pressure for this sort of content.
        
           | cvwright wrote:
           | I want the original version back. 2000's Facebook was
           | actually pretty great while it lasted.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | For the last paragraph it wasn't quite that simple, Nielson
           | Media Research was aggregating audience statistics for market
           | analysis since the radio days before TV.
        
         | simmanian wrote:
         | I feel it's not useful to separate out the content creators
         | from the network itself. Most of the "bad" things we see in
         | today's social media are byproducts of how these networks
         | behave as a whole. Put differently, how Youtube functions today
         | is the result of the interactions between Youtube's algorithm
         | to maximize profit for Google, content creators' drive to get
         | more views, and consumers' desire to find more addicting
         | things. You change one piece of the network and the network
         | will behave very differently.
         | 
         | I find this to be very hopeful, because it means we can design
         | and form networks that elevate people, not lower them into
         | mindless zombie states.
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | Yet monetization enabled great content creators to generate
         | something with a high production value or live their dream by
         | earning money while doing the things they love. Veratasium or
         | VSauce, for example, are a great channels, but they would've
         | never gotten where they are now if they wouldn't have been able
         | to earn money with it.
         | 
         | A similar topic comes up in music all the time, too: People
         | accuse their favorite band of changing their style in order to
         | get mainstream appeal and, therefore, more money. Which is
         | definitely true to some extend, but I don't think this makes
         | paying musicians a bad thing in general. And it's the same
         | thing with content creators on the internet.
        
           | el-salvador wrote:
           | I've noticed that before IG and Tiktok influencers become
           | popular, their content is more authentic / less cookie-
           | cutter. Also their followers leave better comments (they are
           | only followed by those who genuinely like them).
        
         | scollet wrote:
         | Practically, it's an advertising apparatus. Creators probably
         | fit a normal distribution for mass appeal, so your ire might be
         | better directed at advertisers who enable and curate primarily
         | profit-driven content.
         | 
         | Nothing wrong with making a few bucks off of your craft.
        
         | milkytron wrote:
         | > content creators are the problem.
         | 
         | > you can monetize their content.
         | 
         | Wouldn't that put the blame on the monetization of social
         | media? Content creators are trying to make money, social media
         | companies determine what kind of content is relevant and worthy
         | of views, thus which content deserves the money. Content
         | creators seem to be at the mercy of providing content that will
         | be recommended.
         | 
         | I view it as a sort of "don't hate the player, hate the game."
         | And the social media companies determine the rules of the game.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | Facebook became much more useful to me when I realized this,
         | and left all groups and the like behind. Facebook was always a
         | terrible forum interface since they didn't show me everything.
         | Now all they have is my friends list, so I see more pictures of
         | my friend's kid riding a horse, or vacation pictures from
         | Montana - exactly what I want facebook to show me.
        
       | crazy_horse wrote:
       | I'm not sure how to phrase this without sounding rude, but what
       | is this saying that adds insight to what I've been reading on
       | places like HN for a decade?
       | 
       | Is it true that people are getting dumber? Big claim, no
       | evidence. Do paragraphs exist? I'm looking for solution. Saying
       | nobody knows what the future looks like ain't it.
        
         | criticaltinker wrote:
         | This book [1] argues that average IQ has been significantly
         | increasing over the past century, and supports the claim with a
         | wide variety of evidence.
         | 
         | However the author also posits that whether _intelligence_ is
         | increasing is still controversial and difficult to prove
         | conclusively.
         | 
         | [1] Are We Getting Smarter?: Rising IQ in the Twenty-First
         | Century https://books.google.com/books?id=Z_-ykOVpRccC
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | I wonder how well we are able to maintain focus relative to
           | years past, what with the mental damage of consuming content
           | in thirty second or so intervals for long chunks of time for
           | years and years. My internet addiction as a teenager 15 years
           | ago was bad enough, if I grew up with fast paced junk like
           | TikTok I feel like I would probably develop ADD just from the
           | rewiring process that happens while growing up coupled with
           | these short spurts of junk food tier content meant to engage
           | you for as long as possible. Hopefully in another 20 years
           | people see social media like a cigarette but for mental
           | health.
        
             | moate wrote:
             | Adult with ADHD here: You would not develop ADD from media.
             | That's not how this works. The fact that devs have found
             | ways to design sites that mimic patterns for addiction
             | doesn't mean it's the people. It's the things. If you
             | suddenly found yourself removed from the stimuli, you'd be
             | fine, no longer the exposure period. I will not.
             | 
             | Since our jumping off point was "people are getting
             | dumber"(they aren't) I just want to point out people aren't
             | also developing ADHD, they just have more things vying for
             | their neurtypical brain's attention.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | While it's pretty tough to even measure intelligence,
           | nutrition and general health have improved dramatically, so
           | that's likely to have spill-over into cognitive improvements
           | as well.
        
         | xcfvbnkhnkjq wrote:
         | >Is it true that people are getting dumber? Big claim, no
         | evidence. Do paragraphs exist? I'm looking for solution.
         | 
         | Are the grammar issues intentional?
        
         | moate wrote:
         | The "people are getting dumber" argument really rubbed me the
         | wrong way as well. It's glib and pithy and people love to make
         | this claim when talking about things they don't like about
         | society.
         | 
         | "I dislike ads and only stupid idiot babies would tolerate
         | platforms with ads, therefore everyone using the majority of
         | websites is an idiot" is such lazy thinking. IDK, I'm a huge
         | fan of social sciences which means I might as well be the devil
         | to many engineers/HN posters.
        
       | b1d3nb3h1d3n wrote:
       | Most of social media is just liberal bots pushing their liberal
       | agenda.
       | 
       | Someone once mentioned that something like only 8% of twitter are
       | actual real users. The rest are just bots.
        
       | mrfusion wrote:
       | I think an anonymous "dislike" button could go a long way in
       | improving social media.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | fsiefken wrote:
       | for a long while i was thinking my comments on facebook would
       | raise the quality of interaction, but with the onslaught of
       | disinformation my thoughtful and respectful comments (or so I
       | think) seem to be futile and just fodder for the facebook network
       | and the attention economy.
       | 
       | So I wrote a goodbye note on instagram and facebook, felt
       | confirmation by reading Jaron Lanier. Got a new domain and
       | configured jekyll.
       | 
       | Now I can blog and write my 'digital garden' notes on my own
       | island and share it with a smaller circle of people outside of
       | the regular social media which artificially disciplines my
       | thoughts, responses and behavior like the panopticon (michel
       | foucault). I'll keep an eye on facebook groups, will schedule
       | some script to rss-ify some feeds from 'facebook friends' but
       | that's it.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | Problems I see:
       | 
       | - Most content produced by people on social media is not good and
       | you probably don't want to see it. Serendipity of a bunch of
       | crappy content "I had a bad day nobody ask me about it" is not
       | something you want, but it is serendipity.
       | 
       | - Social media isn't where you go to get info on Crocodiles, not
       | sure how that would even work? That's Wikipedia. ... or if we're
       | talking social media, YouTube (I searched YouTube and got a lot
       | of legitimate results).
        
         | input_sh wrote:
         | > and you probably don't want to see it.
         | 
         | Hard disagree. I want to see everything from everyone I follow
         | in a specific newest-to-oldest order. I also don't want to see
         | other shit in my feed (X liked Y, who to follow, whatever), but
         | I'm fine with having it outside of the main feed (be it a
         | sidebar or a click away).
         | 
         | I also want to "tag" my follows into lists (family, close
         | friends, topic X, topic Y), allowing me to filter through the
         | timeline.
         | 
         | Currently only Twitter and Mastodon allow me this use case, and
         | that's what I use on a semi-regular basis. Everything that
         | deviates from that (Facebook, Instagram, YouTube's home feed)
         | also loses me as a regular visitor with zero exceptions.
         | 
         | But the reason everything deviates from that eventually is
         | clickthrough rate on ads. If my timeline is confusing enough,
         | I'm more likely to click on ads.
        
           | briffle wrote:
           | Exactly this. I WANT to see all those pictures friends and
           | family are posting of their kids going back to school, or of
           | their dog doing whatever. That is the point of social media,
           | to someone keep in touch with the goings-on of family that
           | lives far away. I actually like to read their personal
           | opinions and thoughts they write on things, even when I
           | disagree with them. (its interesting to see things from
           | others point of view) But I wish I could just block everthing
           | that someone 're-shares' since lately, its no different than
           | the huge email chains your great aunt used to foward in ALL
           | CAPS about how if you forward this to 10 people Bill Gates is
           | going to send you money....
        
             | nicce wrote:
             | At least Instagram algorithm is going towards direction
             | where this is not possible. It might hide content from
             | persons which you have followed, if you haven't liked or
             | reacted their posts in the past. It wants to show the most
             | appealing content.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | RSS works well for this. I follow youtube channels and other
           | media on RSS and its chronological, all in one place, and I
           | can group or filter them however I like.
        
             | input_sh wrote:
             | I'm gonna be honest, I do use RSS, but I dread it due to a)
             | not every website supporting it, b) random sites having
             | feeds that are way too noisy, c) liking one category of
             | posts or one author and failing to extract those posts
             | only, or d) random people I like publishing on multiple
             | websites.
             | 
             | Now I can get around it with a ton of effort, but it will
             | break sooner or later, which is why why I find
             | Twitter/Mastodon lists far more useful and flexible.
        
         | zhdc1 wrote:
         | Social media - at least, Twitter, but a couple of other sites
         | before that - is still the go to source for breaking news.
         | 
         | It can take tens of minutes to hours for major news sites to
         | report on a breaking event (e.g., the fall of Kabul).
         | Meanwhile, you can get detailed - albiet in some cases very
         | innacurate - information within minutes of it happening simply
         | by watching for Tweets from people on the ground.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | > albiet in some cases very innacurate
           | 
           | I would correct to most cases. Or that the information you
           | get is without sufficient context to be of use.
        
             | zhdc1 wrote:
             | Actually, I've found that they tend to be fairly accurate
             | at reporting 'what' is happening - it's hard for several
             | people at the same time to post unique, fake videos of
             | people driving around with guns while others are posting
             | corroborating textual accounts.
             | 
             | The 'why' part is a completely different matter. If there's
             | any interpretation or time difference between the event and
             | the post, scepticism is absolutely warranted.
        
               | bryan_w wrote:
               | It's not that hard if you use "residential proxies"
        
           | mikeg8 wrote:
           | But do we really _need_ to know breaking news, instantly? It
           | becomes addicting; it especially was for me during the last
           | administration. I'm completely fine finding out a few hours
           | later about a breaking news story that doesn't have a
           | material effect on my immediate safety (ie wild fires). If
           | Twitter's biggest justification is that it lets you stay up
           | to speed on news in real-time, I'd still agree we are better
           | off without it, from a mental health perspective.
        
             | zhdc1 wrote:
             | > do we really need to know breaking news, instantly?
             | 
             | There are good reasons, although I share your general
             | concern. E.g., if you believe that you may be affected by
             | an event, or if it's important/relevant enough that others
             | will start to frame how it's perceived, it's generally good
             | to find out about it as it's happening.
             | 
             | On the other hand, the vast majority of trending events
             | aren't worth being concerned about for most people.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | If I need to know as it is happening there should be
               | sirens going off outside in my town to alert me to that.
               | Everything else can wait.
        
               | nicce wrote:
               | Plenty of these "breaking news" are also heavily
               | missleading. Causing side effects and heavy opinions,
               | regardless if truth comes later. It is too late then.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | animanoir wrote:
       | I believe blogging will have a Renaissance since it has all the
       | benefits from "social networks" but excluding the ads, the
       | unnecessary "likes", and focus on the fundamentals which are
       | sharing and discussing, just like forums, but blogs will be about
       | individuals mainly.
        
         | moate wrote:
         | IDK what blogs you're reading, but many of those sites are a
         | confederation of ads with small islands of content interspersed
         | between.
         | 
         | Many bloggers are trying to do it as a way to gain income at
         | this point, and the ads are either all over the site or
         | inserted directly into the "content".
        
           | animanoir wrote:
           | Well, like mine, which is completely about me and my thoughts
           | with zero ads, and I share and discuss whatever I want
           | https://safetyinsolitude.blogspot.com/ This is what I send to
           | people if they want to know my digital self.
           | 
           | So yeah, mentality needs to change to stop seeking revenue
           | out of everything...
        
             | moate wrote:
             | The issue is that some people want to blog for a living
             | (and there's nothing wrong with that IMO) which leads the
             | platforms to optimize for that. I don't think enough people
             | are willing to spin up their own self-hosted blogs just to
             | throw their thoughts into the aether. Not when _points to
             | what the internet has become_ exists and they can get the
             | engagement /dopamine they want elsewhere.
             | 
             | That's not to say your prediction is wrong, just feels
             | extremely unlikely, barring some massive regulatory
             | upheaval changing the internet's current paradigm.
        
           | brodouevencode wrote:
           | I think OPs original point was more of a circa-2005 blog,
           | which would be nice. But your point is equally as valid. Try
           | searching for a recipe for your favorite dish - the first two
           | pages are blog posts each filled with incessant chatter about
           | how the dish makes them feel. You have to scroll to the very
           | bottom just to get the actual recipe.
        
             | moate wrote:
             | The Livejournal era has passed. You can't go back to that
             | on a platform because platforms will continue to be for
             | profit and nobody is going to pay for you to host their
             | blog so you need ads to make the business viable.
             | 
             | The other option is everyone spinning up and hosting their
             | own sites, which will not happen because Helen the mommy
             | blogger has 2 kids to deal with and photos to edit and
             | content to write so she does not also want to learn how to
             | set up hosting and write HTML.
             | 
             | I'd like for certain things to "go back to the way they
             | were" but that's just not how it works usually.
        
         | zhdc1 wrote:
         | I'm skeptical. Blogs are difficult for subject matter experts
         | (people skilled in a domain, and not necessarily skilled at
         | making money off of the web) to monetize.
        
           | marcofiset wrote:
           | Not everyone is using social media to make money.
        
           | selfhoster11 wrote:
           | Not everyone wants to monetize in the first place.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | The issue is that its not 2005 anymore. An organic blog that
         | doesn't play the SEO game will just be buried by the millions
         | of junk websites that play that game, and won't get traction
         | like they did in the era where searching for a topic on the
         | internet brought up relevent nonspam results.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | That is a bug in search engines though, not in blogs.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | It's the way the internet is now, though, and it makes it
             | so that is harder for average people to find and read and
             | write blogs than it was years ago. In other words, it's
             | tough going back to horses when all the stables in the city
             | are gas stations now.
        
       | wombatmobile wrote:
       | "New technology, this kind or any other kind, is a kind of
       | Faustian bargain. It always gives us something important, but it
       | also takes away something that's important. That's been true of
       | the alphabet, the printing press, and telegraphy right up to the
       | computer."
       | 
       | Neil Postman on Cyberspace, 1995
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49rcVQ1vFAY
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | This is a junk article. Why is it even on the front page?
       | 
       | 60 years ago, before even the ARPANET, there was Newton Minow
       | giving a speech [1] about how TV was garbage (the "vast
       | wasteland" speech). If you want to read something timeless, read
       | that instead.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/09/the-vast-
       | wast...
        
         | pphysch wrote:
         | Ironically, instead of linking to Minow's speech, you link to
         | another "junk article" that reads like an ad for Harvard ("Hey
         | look, this famous guy's daughter works at Harvard. Here are
         | some random related facts." --the Harvard Gazette).
         | 
         | The mind boggles.
        
           | lofties wrote:
           | The full speech[1] for those interested.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/newtonminow.htm
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | I was expecting a lot more damning points about TV but this
             | legitimately reads like the man is a luddite rather than
             | someone thinking about maybe the value of deep thinking.
             | His cited evils on TV: "You will see a procession of game
             | shows, formula comedies about totally unbelievable
             | families, blood and thunder, mayhem, violence, sadism,
             | murder, western bad men, western good men, private eyes,
             | gangsters, more violence, and cartoons." Yet in the
             | paragraph above he gives the newspaper as well as the
             | theater a pass, when you can see many of these tropes
             | outlined in this quote from just Shakespeare.
             | 
             | Old Old media also was a "vast wasteland" of sponsored
             | radio programs, poorly written syndicated stories meant to
             | engage readers to see other advertisements in newspapers
             | (literally the social media model), and billboards adorning
             | theaters and most aspects of public life, even more than
             | today. I was hoping he would get into something about
             | devoting ones efforts towards improvements, personal or
             | otherwise, rather than endless consumption that leaves you
             | in the same place as beforehand, but that wasn't really his
             | mark and probably not even in his capitalist head given the
             | opining about 'tyrannical communism'.
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | You're right, I should have found the actual speech, but
           | fortunately someone else did.
        
       | olah_1 wrote:
       | This reads like an advertisement for peer to peer apps like
       | Manyverse[1], Iris[2], or Capsule[3].
       | 
       | He mentions mirror.xyz in the footnotes, but I can't figure out
       | what that is. One of those annoyingly exclusive projects like
       | Clubhouse. The fact that not letting people in was a "feature"
       | really just turned me off. Sour grapes, but oh well.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.manyver.se/
       | 
       | [2]: https://iris.to
       | 
       | [3]: https://capsule.social/
        
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