[HN Gopher] Archaeologists Discover 'Lost Golden City of Luxor'
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       Archaeologists Discover 'Lost Golden City of Luxor'
        
       Author : TrueJane
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2021-08-20 09:26 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dw.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dw.com)
        
       | mzs wrote:
       | photo slideshow mentions this parade from April:
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56508475
        
         | DamnYuppie wrote:
         | If it was in the US the woke mob would have tried to get the
         | parade cancelled because those Pharo's had slaves.
        
       | redm wrote:
       | Theres a good nat geo article on it too.
       | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/lost-gold...
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | That article adds `style="overflow-y: hidden; position: fixed"`
         | to the main body tag when you scroll down (once); you'll need
         | to delete that to reenable reading it.
        
         | downWidOutaFite wrote:
         | Thanks, that's a much better article.
        
         | haspoken wrote:
         | https://archive.is/a0xYl
        
         | andreime wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | > The ancient city, reported to be the largest ever found in
       | Egypt, dates back to the era of king Amenhotep III, who ruled the
       | ancient kingdom from 1391 to 1353 BC
       | 
       | To give some idea of how old Egypt is, Amenhotep III was the 9th
       | king of the 18th Dynasty. By the time he ruled, the Great Pyramid
       | of Giza was over 1000 years old.
       | 
       | Also what is interesting is that some of our greatest finds are
       | because of the Egyptian ruling class trying to erase the
       | "apostasy" of Akhenaten from their memory. Thus Luxor and king
       | Tut were heavily censored which probably led to their being
       | passed over by grave robbers, which meant when they were finally
       | discovered, we had a more intact find. I find it ironic that the
       | pharaohs and cities that the ancient Egyptians tried to censor,
       | may end up being the most well known as we go forward.
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | Can you tell me what censored means in this context?
        
           | selfhoster11 wrote:
           | In short, later rulers attempted to wipe out all memory of
           | Akhenaten after he tried to abandon the traditional Egyptian
           | polytheistic model. It's pretty fascinating stuff.
           | 
           | From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten:
           | 
           | > As a pharaoh, Akhenaten is noted for abandoning Egypt's
           | traditional polytheism and introducing Atenism, or worship
           | centered around Aten. The views of Egyptologists differ as to
           | whether Atenism should be considered as a form of absolute
           | monotheism, or whether it was monolatry, syncretism, or
           | henotheism. This culture shift away from traditional religion
           | was not widely accepted. After his death, Akhenaten's
           | monuments were dismantled and hidden, his statues were
           | destroyed, and his name excluded from lists of rulers
           | compiled by later pharaohs. Traditional religious practice
           | was gradually restored, notably under his close successor
           | Tutankhamun, who changed his name from Tutankhaten early in
           | his reign. When some dozen years later, rulers without clear
           | rights of succession from the Eighteenth Dynasty founded a
           | new dynasty, they discredited Akhenaten and his immediate
           | successors and referred to Akhenaten as "the enemy" or "that
           | criminal" in archival records.
        
       | BatFastard wrote:
       | Turn off! when headline has "ancienct" as part of their headline
       | tells me something is wrong.
        
       | unkulunkulu wrote:
       | I read it as 'Lost Golden City of Linux'
        
         | marlowe221 wrote:
         | If only...
        
           | ARandomerDude wrote:
           | I mean, they did name it LuXOR.
        
       | fortani wrote:
       | Zahi Hawass, the archaeologist who found it has an interesting
       | past based on past comments.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26974453
        
       | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
       | I always wanted to ask something from archeologists: why did
       | ancient people bury these cities instead of e.g. living in them,
       | or demolishing them?
        
         | breakbread wrote:
         | https://www.exurbe.com/the-shape-of-rome/
         | 
         | I think post has what you need.
        
           | jsrcout wrote:
           | That was fascinating, and informative!
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | As the sibling comment says, cities are not buried - they are
         | subsumed by material that accretes on top of existing
         | structures.
         | 
         | Say you lay a road in a town, then the road starts developing
         | holes; to even it out, you place a new layer on top. Over
         | decades, this process raises the road so significantly that,
         | when buildings are demolished, they get rebuilt at a higher
         | level or their ruins are simply covered by new roads. Rinse and
         | repeat for centuries, and you end up with Rome.
         | 
         | If instead you just abandon the settlement (like it happened in
         | many Egyptian / Greek / Roman towns, like Volubilis in
         | Morocco), then nature will do its thing, pushing detritus over
         | the ruins, or growing plants that will slowly create new layers
         | of organic material that eventually turns to dirt. Towns near
         | rivers or coasts might be claimed by waters once people stop
         | maintaining their protection. Etc etc.
        
         | dougmwne wrote:
         | I want to point out the survivorship bias present here too.
         | Only buried cities can survive millennia to be discovered
         | later. Abandoned cities that were in erosion prone places are
         | in little bits at the bottom of the slope. Cities that weren't
         | abandoned can have buildings that are thousands of years old
         | and actively lived in and maintained.
         | 
         | I spent some time in an Italian hill town that has been
         | continuously inhabited since the Romans. At the same time I
         | visited Pompeii. Most of the buildings in the center were Roman
         | and had identical construction to Pompeii. They were living
         | "ruins" and therefore could not be discovered because they had
         | never been lost. There was a Roman Theater in that town that
         | had been partially built into homes and partially quarried for
         | building materials. There had been a set of giant marble masks
         | originally in the theater, but now scattered around the town
         | built into other building. Conservation of matter, it doesn't
         | go anywhere unless someone carries it away.
        
           | ithkuil wrote:
           | What is the name of town?
        
         | tinco wrote:
         | Not sure about this particular city, but for cities in general
         | I think it's usually because they're just absolutely destroyed.
         | I was just listening to Dan Carlin's King of Kings podcast and
         | in there is the poignant story of a greek general traveling
         | through what is modern Syria I believe. While traveling through
         | the desert the general comes across an abandoned city unlike
         | he's ever seen, and unrivalled by any city of his time. Its 11
         | miles of walls were 10 meters thick and 30 meters high. There
         | was no one around to inform him of what the city was named.
         | 
         | Now it is believed that the city was the capital of some
         | (Assyrian?) kingdom, that just 200 years earlier was basically
         | the capital of the civilised world and had stood for hundreds
         | of years. It was destroyed by a particularly cruel horde, and
         | everyone in it was slaughtered, the fields around it salted,
         | the goods and artefacts taken.
         | 
         | It was so thoroughly destroyed that 200 years later a well read
         | and knowledgable general couldn't even place it or find anyone
         | to tell him about it. The only thing that remains were the
         | basically indestructible stone walls.
         | 
         | I don't really have the mind for remembering history details,
         | so I'm probably way off on some details, but I thought it was a
         | cool story about how we've come to find these ancient ruins
         | just all abandoned without even locals knowing what they are.
         | Dan Carlin makes it really come alive, highly recommend
         | listening to his stories.
        
           | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
           | I think you're referring to the city of Ur, the "capital" of
           | Mesopotamia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur
           | 
           | And the guy who rediscovered it (from a European perspective)
           | was an Italian called Pietro Della Valle:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Della_Valle
        
             | astine wrote:
             | Tinco is referencing a famous story by Xenophon who was a
             | Greek mercenary who fought for the Persians. The city being
             | references is believed to be Nineveh(1), which was indeed a
             | capital of the Neo-Assyrian Empire at one point. The ruins
             | of Nineveh still exist, but they are in northern Iraq, not
             | Syria.
             | 
             | 1 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:
             | tlg...
        
               | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
               | Oh! Then indeed it better fits the description. So many
               | lost cities in the cradle of civilization...
        
         | skocznymroczny wrote:
         | In most cases, those ancient cities and temples weren't buried
         | by the people. Egypt is a desert country. Over time, the wind
         | carries the sand over everything. Also, many old cities and
         | temples were flooded by the Nile.
        
           | HenryKissinger wrote:
           | Is every place being slowly buried likewise? Is the planet
           | slowing getting thicker? Where does all this material come
           | from?
        
             | speeder wrote:
             | Replying your specific question, actually the planet is
             | slowly getting rounder.
             | 
             | A simplification of the process:
             | 
             | Tectonic plate movements create mountains, as they climb on
             | top of each other (and where space was opened, lava there
             | turns into new rock)
             | 
             | Then erosion carry material from high places, to low
             | places.
             | 
             | Thus over time places in high areas get "shorter", while
             | places in low areas get "taller".
             | 
             | Meanwhile some parts of tectonic plates are sinking again
             | and melting again.
             | 
             | But as the planet core cools down, this process get slower
             | and slower, and erosion speed remains "constant", so over
             | time the tendency is the planet get rounder and rounder,
             | eventually the planet would have cooled 100% and no new
             | mountains would form, while erosion would make all
             | mountains become flat over time.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | Human skin is 99.9% of the dust in most homes.
             | 
             | (had to reply with a gross out amusement, it's not sand,
             | it's dead people!)
        
               | anoncow wrote:
               | I used to believe that too. However, apparently there is
               | more to it https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/what-is-
               | dust-made-of/
               | 
               | Also this video by Derek is very informative
               | https://youtu.be/jn5M48MVWyg
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | >Human skin is 99.9% of the dust in most homes.
               | 
               | Sure, ever since Thanos.
        
             | saalweachter wrote:
             | Organic matter largely comes from the air.
             | 
             | Inorganic matter largely gets blown from other places, or
             | washed down from mountain tops.
        
             | rustymonday wrote:
             | In the case of Egypt it's mostly wind-blown sand and dust.
             | But deposition can also be caused by river sedimentation
             | during floods.
             | 
             | In non-desert areas, dead biomass (fallen leaves, etc.)
             | creates soil. My parents had a stone path through their
             | yard that they didn't maintain, and within a decade it was
             | covered over with soil and grass grew over it.
             | 
             | Over the course of a few thousand years, structures can be
             | buried by several meters of earth.
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | The speed of deposition is super variable. In fluvial
               | environments, I've seen reports of feet per year, which
               | put recent sites (i.e. medieval) under 40+m of sediment.
               | On the other hand, I've worked sites with long term
               | 'stable surfaces', where layers thousands of years old
               | were within centimeters or less of modern contexts.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | They didn't. The cities are buried by the natural accumulation
         | of dirt. Nobody would do it on purpose - what would be the
         | point?
        
         | devoutsalsa wrote:
         | toldinstone on YouTube did a video on this about why ancient
         | time is buried. 3m51s watch, and interesting enough I
         | remembered it to recommend to you :)
         | 
         | "Why Ancient Rome Is Buried": https://youtu.be/fz4ZdXpri04
        
       | fogihujy wrote:
       | I wonder if there's any written records to be found. Written
       | sources from that time is rather scarce since they were
       | systematically destroyed a few decades later.
        
         | anonymousDan wrote:
         | Why were they destroyed?
        
         | TrueJane wrote:
         | As i was reading several sources about that, i didn't see any
         | written artefacts, only mummies, pottery, masks and walls
         | itself
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | Who does their spell check? I found 4 errors so far and I'm not
       | even done with the slideshow.
        
       | Vrondi wrote:
       | It is quite obnoxious that this slideshow doesn't have a date on
       | it _anywhere_.
        
         | pdpi wrote:
         | It's dated 09.04.2021. Hidden away in a weird spot at the top
         | right corner
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | Funny, ancient Egypt has the same issue!
        
           | twic wrote:
           | Actually, from the Nat Geo article it seems this is a case
           | where that is not true:
           | 
           | > Though the size of the city has yet to be determined, its
           | date is clear thanks to hieroglyphics on a variety of items.
           | A vessel containing two gallons of boiled meat was inscribed
           | with the year 37 -- the time of Amenhotep III and Akhenaten's
           | speculated father-son reign.
           | 
           | Therefore i'm afraid i must condemn your joke as inaccurate.
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | I stand by my joke, as everything is dated according to the
             | current pharaoh, but it's not like they signed their
             | letters with the position of the planets - the dates
             | relative to today are reconstructed in various ways as one
             | pharaoh being so many years after another.
             | 
             | The wiki on Egyptian Chronology explains various scenarios
             | where the dates have had to be changed sometimes by
             | hundreds of years according to new evidence:
             | https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_chronology
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sizzzzlerz wrote:
       | How cool is this? Whenever cities of ancient civilizations are
       | revealed, it kind of gives me shivers. It makes one wonder what
       | else is out there, buried under the sands for thousands of years.
        
         | hutzlibu wrote:
         | Atlantis is maybe still waiting for its Schliemann.
         | 
         | And who know what else undersea, in the jungle or dessert.
        
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