[HN Gopher] How two bored 1970s housewives helped create the PC ...
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       How two bored 1970s housewives helped create the PC industry (2015)
        
       Author : edtechdev
       Score  : 222 points
       Date   : 2021-08-19 09:12 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.fastcompany.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.fastcompany.com)
        
       | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
       | > Lore Harp and Carole Ely of Westlake Village brought along the
       | Vector 1, a PC designed by Lore's husband, Bob Harp.
       | 
       | Interesting choice of headline.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | vegardx wrote:
       | A colleague of mine got started programming because her fancy
       | sewing machine was programmed using Cobol or Fortran.
       | 
       | It's really fun to hear stories about when she quite literally
       | just started showing up at Oslo University to sneak into classes
       | because she found it so fun.
       | 
       | Now she's maintaining one of our mainframes at work. Extremely
       | knowledgeable and kind. The kind of person you feel lucky to
       | know.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | > sneak into classes
         | 
         | All of the lectures at UiO are actually open to anyone as far
         | as I know. You don't need to be a student there or anything.
         | You can just walk right in. And as long as you are quiet, and
         | the room is not too full, I think it's ok.
         | 
         | But considering how inexpensive university education is in
         | Norway, it may be an even better idea to sign up for classes
         | because then you get to deliver assignments and get them graded
         | and so on.
         | 
         | Then again, when I attended university at UiO a lot of the
         | intro classes were not inspiring. (And the same is probably
         | true for most any university I think.) And I ended up not
         | finishing my degree at UiO. So going to some lectures for the
         | topics that you find the most interesting instead of enrolling
         | as a student may not be such a bad idea either.
         | 
         | One of the things I enjoyed the most about my time at UiO was
         | this student union that was there. Lots of really skillful
         | people were members of that student union and I learned quite a
         | bit from some of them. I spent a lot of time in the location of
         | that student union.
         | 
         | In fact I can probably say, honestly, that I spent more time in
         | that student union than I did in classes. Other members of that
         | student union was also how I got to know about HN originally.
         | This was over a decade ago now.
         | 
         | It was a special place, and I am so happy that it existed and
         | that I got to experience it.
         | 
         | The building that we had our location in was eventually
         | decommissioned and we got new location in a basement without
         | windows. This killed the student union. No one wanted to hang
         | out in a room deep down in a basement with no windows. And this
         | new location was very inaccessible too, you had to walk through
         | many corridors down in the basement to get to the room.
         | 
         | Some of the people that had been doing the most for that
         | student union started a new hacker space in Oslo. I've only
         | been to the new hacker space a couple of times but it's a
         | pretty nice place too I think.
         | 
         | The website of the student union continued to run on a server
         | at UiO for several years after activity stopped, but the server
         | went down a while back. I guess either the University Center
         | for Information Technology (USIT) at UiO did a cleanup in the
         | server rooms and found no one to speak to about the server, or
         | they were informed that the student union was inactive, or the
         | hardware in the server may have just malfunctioned after years
         | of operation.
        
         | bgmeister wrote:
         | Norsk Data machines?
        
           | unixhero wrote:
           | Current day mainframes in use in Norway would be IBM
           | mainframes.
           | 
           | Telenor, Nordea, DNB or Insurance companies...
        
       | leejoramo wrote:
       | Around 1983 my Eagle Scout project was to get computers for
       | students at the Elementary School I had attended in central
       | California. One of the companies that presented their systems was
       | Vector.
       | 
       | Their demo was the first time I got to play with an S-100. I
       | remember they sent a woman from their corporate offices and an
       | African American salesperson to talk to me. That meeting always
       | shaped for me an expectation of diversity in the workplace.
       | 
       | Looking back, I wonder if the woman at the demo was Lore or
       | Carole
       | 
       | Vector was too expensive for my project. I did end up getting
       | three Apple ]['s for student use and a HeathKit CP/M system for
       | the office. The school ended up being the first elementary school
       | in the school district to give students access to computers.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Neat. About that time, maybe a year before a teacher of mine
         | had a TRS-80 all-in-one in class. Decades ahead that one. Also
         | in Ventura County.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80#modeliii
        
       | dang wrote:
       | A couple of past threads:
       | 
       |  _How Two Bored 1970s Housewives Helped Create the PC Industry
       | (2015)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16249920 - Jan
       | 2018 (29 comments)
       | 
       |  _How two bored 1970s housewives helped create the PC industry_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9929333 - July 2015 (69
       | comments)
        
       | heurisko wrote:
       | Similar story in the UK, "Freelance Programmers" was created with
       | the primary workforce of mothers with a technical background.
       | 
       | The creator of the company, (now Dame) Stephanie Shirley, wrote
       | about it in her memoirs "Let it Go", which I can recommend.
       | 
       | They eventually had to hire men, due to equality legislation. The
       | attraction for women, however, was that they could work from
       | home. Seems we have come full circle.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | The comments below about Apple, Wozniak, Jobs, et al are right.
       | Those stories have been done to death. There were a lot of other
       | people _not_ at Apple who were making fun, vital contributions to
       | the PC industry, and I 'm working on a post about another one
       | that almost no one remembers (teaser).
       | 
       | A Silicon Valley legend was Dennis Barnhart [1], who crashed the
       | Ferrari that he'd bought with his IPO money for Eagle Computer
       | (remember them? I thought not.)
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://https://www.nytimes.com/1983/06/10/business/corporat...
        
       | wumms wrote:
       | > The following year, Bob founded Corona Data Systems [0], which
       | created one of the first IBM PC clones.
       | 
       | One of their ads is titled "The Apple vs. IBM debate is over.
       | Meet the Winner." [1]
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_Data_Systems
       | 
       | [1] https://imgur.com/a/aDe5mkD
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | One of those was the first PC I owned.
         | 
         | The compatibility comment in the article was interesting. There
         | was definitely a period when bug for bug PC compatibility was
         | not widely appreciated by a lot of companies because it hadn't
         | historically been a thing. Even Corona had a weird one-off
         | monochrome graphics mode that basically no one supported (and
         | made it incompatible with add-on graphics cards like Hercules).
         | 
         | I think it's also easy for people to forget that in, say, 1982
         | if you were shopping for a computer a PC clone wasn't
         | necessarily the obvious choice.
        
       | eloeffler wrote:
       | Outrun by a bored college dropout and his friend
        
       | CyberRabbi wrote:
       | "PC" is an IBM specific marketing term. The computers made by
       | Vector Graphic were not PCs, they were microcomputers. The
       | correct generic term is microcomputer, e.g. the Apple II was a
       | microcomputer, never a PC. This naming convention persists today,
       | it's unusual to refer to a Mac as a PC.
       | 
       | It's a small detail but it's an important one and makes it seem
       | like this article was poorly researched or the title is
       | clickbait. Vector Graphic never entered the PC industry though
       | they may have helped create the microcomputer industry.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Graphic
        
         | thoughtsimple wrote:
         | At the time PC was generic for personal computer. Only later
         | was it associated with the IBM PC.
        
           | CyberRabbi wrote:
           | If anything that is the opposite of what is true. At the time
           | IBM invented the term to market the IBM 5150.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer
        
         | ChickeNES wrote:
         | No: https://www.wired.com/2000/12/the-first-pc/
        
           | CyberRabbi wrote:
           | If you read the Wikipedia page for Vector Graphic, you'll
           | clearly see it states they produced microcomputers, not PCs.
           | Contrast with IBM, Compaq.
        
       | ThinkBeat wrote:
       | I find the headline to be promise more than it delivered.
       | 
       | A women had a husband (Bob) who was a genius at design and
       | developing hardware accessories and later a full computer. He had
       | little interest in running the business.
       | 
       | His work created a hardware company called Vector Computers.
       | 
       | His wife and another woman ran the business aspect of the company
       | and the company did well.
       | 
       | It did well thanks to the husband's identification of a huge
       | market that offered a lot of opportunity.
       | 
       | The company grew and this is certainly a credit for the two
       | female executives. They were pioneers both as female executives
       | and within getting in early in the computer industry.
       | 
       | Once Bob learned about this soon to be released IBM PC he
       | requested and begged the company to start making IBM PC clones
       | and accessories. He said the company had a year left unless it
       | started embracing the PC
       | 
       | The now soon to be ex wife rejected this idea and kept the
       | company running the same as always. She also fired her soon to be
       | ex-husband.
       | 
       | She did take the company public within that year and was generous
       | allotting stocks to every employee in the company. That was also
       | a first.
       | 
       | I hope everyone sold their stock as soon as they could, given
       | that the company died 2 years later. Because they are failed to
       | adapt to a changing market and rejected advice of the technical
       | founder and the guy who identified the market segment they
       | started in.
        
         | shever73 wrote:
         | Thank you for the TLDR, as soon as I opened the site on mobile
         | and was greeted with uncloseable video ads and a tiny area of
         | screen real estate to actually read the article, I closed it
         | down.
        
           | le-mark wrote:
           | You should read the article, this is an uncharitable tldr.
           | I'd always Heard about s100 and cpm but I didn't realize
           | there was this category of high priced business computers
           | like the vector in the story.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | Now take this story and replace the wife with Steve Jobs and
         | the husband with Woz. It's basically the same.
         | 
         | Jobs also rejected the advice of the technical co-founder in
         | various matters, and insisted on staying away from producing
         | IBM compatibles. In the end it worked out for Apple but not for
         | Vector.
         | 
         | With a different roll of the dice, it might have been the other
         | way around. Luck plays a huge role in startup success.
        
           | gunapologist99 wrote:
           | > In the end it worked out for Apple but not for Vector.
           | 
           | Did it? It very nearly did not.
           | 
           | Unlike Vector, Steve Jobs always had a focus on something
           | very special in mind: the very best design, of course
           | (perhaps similar to the Vector CEO), but, more importantly,
           | _technical_ things that would re-define the industry, like
           | windowed OS 's and mice.
           | 
           | And, even that relentless focus on having the best user
           | experience was not enough to save Apple! The only thing that
           | did save Apple was bringing Steve Jobs back, who immediately
           | did the only thing he could. In a stroke of sheer genius
           | (and/or luck), he wrangled a huge investment out of... Bill
           | Gates, who was probably the name most associated with PC
           | compatibles!
           | 
           | The Vector story has none of these attributes, except for the
           | nearly (or completely) going out of business part.
        
             | pavlov wrote:
             | Based on this article, Lore Harp of Vector doesn't seem so
             | different from Steve Jobs. She also prioritized design and
             | ease-of-use. She also was an industry outsider with enough
             | charisma to reach national magazine covers.
             | 
             | It's not like Jobs invented GUIs himself -- he happened to
             | be in the right place to learn about all the work already
             | done at Xerox and bring it home. If things had been
             | slightly different, maybe it would have been Lore Harp who
             | went to PARC instead.
             | 
             | The personality cult around famous founders is 99%
             | selection bias. Sure, they were talented. So were hundreds
             | or thousands of others in the same industry.
        
           | jhgb wrote:
           | > and insisted on staying away from producing IBM compatibles
           | 
           | That didn't turn out well for them in the end since they
           | eventually had to build machines 90% similar to IBM PCs that
           | were still able to run Windows in a VM, just so they wouldn't
           | become obsolete after the G5 fiasco.
           | 
           | So I'm not sure how you can conclusively claim that "it
           | worked out for Apple".
        
         | jhgb wrote:
         | So it's actually "How two bored 1970s housewives had no impact
         | on the PC industry"? Because the decision to not build an IBM
         | PC clone meant that IBM PC won, and the alternative decision to
         | build an IBM PC clone would have meant that IBM PC clone would
         | have also won? The only difference seems to be the fate of this
         | particular company, not the PC industry.
        
         | hasmanean wrote:
         | If they sold the stock, it would just be passing the loss onto
         | the new buyers. In the grand scheme of things it would not
         | reduce the net amount of suffering, but only transfer it to
         | someone else.
        
           | pavlov wrote:
           | It's not the same. The seller in this case is someone who
           | worked for the company for years and received the shares as
           | compensation. The buyer is probably a fund or a speculator.
           | 
           | Startup employees should never feel bad about selling their
           | stock. The opportunity is rare enough.
        
             | gunapologist99 wrote:
             | Agreed. Many "obvious" things are only obvious in
             | hindsight.
        
         | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
         | > Once Bob learned about this soon to be released IBM PC he
         | requested and begged the company to start making IBM PC clones
         | and accessories. He said the company had a year left unless it
         | started embracing the PC
         | 
         | > The now soon to be ex wife rejected this idea and kept the
         | company running the same as always. She also fired her soon to
         | be ex-husband.
         | 
         | How do you look at the technical person putting it together and
         | just disregard everything they are saying? When my non-
         | technical persons bring forward a good idea or a good
         | suggestion, we tend to weigh it versus previous ideas and
         | market outlook...
        
           | soperj wrote:
           | >How do you look at the technical person putting it together
           | and just disregard everything they are saying?
           | 
           | Sounds like a large number of executives to me, honestly.
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | > Vector's board convinced Lore to return as president and CEO.
       | She began commuting over with an 800-mile round trip every day
       | from her home in San Francisco.
       | 
       | How is that even possible? Two flights every day?
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | Back then, there was no TSA screening process that took 1-2
         | hours of waiting in line, planes were smaller, airports were
         | less busy, flights left on time whether they were full or not,
         | and you could smoke on the plane.
         | 
         | It would have been pretty expensive unless she or the company
         | negotiated some kind of discount with the airline but lots of
         | people today quite regularly commute 2 hours or more one-way in
         | their car or on the train, so...
        
           | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
           | Oh my god I completely forgot about stuff like the NY - DC
           | shuttle. You could show up at LGA, walk up to the counter and
           | buy a ticket for a flight that ran once an hour and be in the
           | air literally within minutes.
           | 
           | The last time I remember it being that easy was probably
           | 9/13/2001. An ex-girlfriend was trying to get to DC from MSP
           | because her father worked in the Pentagon and she hadn't
           | heard from him. She called me from the airport in a panic at
           | 2AM asking for help because her credit card was declined. I
           | drove to the airport, groggily handed the ticket agent my
           | card and drove back home. She was probably on the plane
           | before I got home.
           | 
           | Then a few weeks later came all the TSA crap...
        
         | AlbertCory wrote:
         | Airline flights for the day are a frequent part of my book [1]
         | which takes place in roughly the same time frame and geography.
         | It wasn't really 400 air miles from LA to SF, but chalk that up
         | to hyperbole. I used to leave the house in Hawthorne at 7:15
         | for an 8:00 flight from LAX, believe it or not.
         | 
         | The other poster mentions that you could smoke on the plane (in
         | the back rows) and that was true, disgustingly enough.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.albertcory.io
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | I remember getting stuck in the smoking section once or twice
           | in the bad old days. I begged the flight attendants to find
           | someone who would switch seats with me.
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | Even sitting in the back of the NON-smoking section was
             | bad, because you were still close to the smokers.
             | 
             | And let's not even talk about the departure lounges in the
             | airports.
        
         | adventured wrote:
         | Joe Biden did a three hour Amtrak trip (90 minutes each way)
         | almost daily for 36 years for example.
         | 
         | "Biden's apparently traveled over 2 million miles, the
         | equivalent of four years of his life, on Amtrak."
         | 
         | https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/a32363173/joe-biden-amt...
        
           | srtjstjsj wrote:
           | That's only a third of the 800 mile commute.
        
             | adventured wrote:
             | I'm not sure what you're getting at. The distance by itself
             | isn't particularly meaningful, the speed traveled +
             | distance is.
             | 
             | Amtrak is quite slow. Jetliners are ~4-8x faster.
        
       | redm wrote:
       | This was a fun read and a great story.
       | 
       | I'm sure this will get downvoted since its not PC (pun intended),
       | but I feel like the title should read "Two Bored 1970's
       | Housewives, and an engineer Husband, Helped Create the PC
       | Industry." The wives had the time and desire, and the husband had
       | the skill and idea[1], just not the time or risk tolerance. I
       | don't see how these can be separated, considering he was the
       | Chief Engineer and created most of the products too. [2]
       | 
       | [1] "Bob Harp's memory board worked well, and he recognized that
       | it could serve as a lucrative commercial product. Lacking the
       | time and resources to commercialize it, he put it on the back
       | burner for almost a year. But in 1976, when his wife and Ely were
       | trying to hatch a business, he offered his Altair memory board as
       | a potential product".
       | 
       | [2] "Losing the engineer who had designed almost all of its
       | hardware products since 1976 was a huge blow for Vector."
        
         | setpatchaddress wrote:
         | You don't understand the purpose and value of headlines. "An
         | engineer husband" is not essential to hook readers into the
         | story. His contribution wasn't ignored in the actual article.
        
           | JasonFruit wrote:
           | They understand the value to the reader, just not the value
           | to the marketer. It's a pity the two interests aren't better
           | aligned in this case.
        
         | Taylor_OD wrote:
         | Right. But the article isn't titled: How Two Bored 1970s
         | Housewives Created the PC Industry
         | 
         | It is an article that shows how two bored 1970's housewives
         | helped to create the pc industry. It's a bit of a clickbait
         | title but it's accurate.
        
         | Goronmon wrote:
         | _I don 't see how these can be separated, considering he was
         | the Chief Engineer and created most of the products too. [2]_
         | 
         | It's pretty easy to separate them. You just write an article
         | about one part of the story. Not every article or story on a
         | subject is required to be 100% comprehensive.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | Well if the writing intentionally leaves out salient facts to
           | shape a very specific and potentially misleading narrative,
           | we call that propaganda.
        
             | setpatchaddress wrote:
             | Bob Harp is featured in the article prominently, so I'm not
             | sure how it can be "potentially misleading" as to his role.
             | 
             | The whole point of this article is to highlight what was
             | different about this situation. Bob Harp's contribution
             | wasn't particularly unique! There were lots of highly
             | competent engineers in the early PC industry doing stuff
             | like this. Read Stan Veit's book or "Fire in the Valley" if
             | you want more than you'll ever need to know about them.
        
         | srtjstjsj wrote:
         | Many people helped create the industry. This article focused on
         | two of them.
        
           | meragrin_ wrote:
           | Bob looks to be a more important part of the story than
           | Carole. He is certainly mentioned more often and his
           | contributions are more clearly defined.
        
             | CamperBob2 wrote:
             | In those days, you could throw a rock in a random direction
             | and hit a talented engineer.
             | 
             | Still can, really.
             | 
             | Management talent, not so much.
        
           | chitowneats wrote:
           | And why do you think that is the case? Clickbait, pure and
           | simple.
        
       | nodejs_rulez_1 wrote:
       | _> She found her talents wasting while her kids spent their days
       | in class and her husband did the 9-to-5 at Hughes._
       | 
       | Back then they did not know that moms are heroes and being a mom
       | is a full-time job.
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | Bored heroes might still be bored. It is all about choice and
         | it is OK to chose not to be a heroes. We do not need to glorify
         | that individual choice I guess, but make sure that there are
         | choices. (Me and my wife are happy that those choices existed
         | for us and my daughter has happy and fulfilled parents even if
         | they are no heroes)
        
         | kleiba wrote:
         | My wife would _prefer_ to focus on being a mom but feels too
         | pressured from outside into having a job. Also, it 's hard to
         | afford a house these days with one income alone.
        
           | geoduck14 wrote:
           | My wife is getting pressure to home school our kids. Peer
           | pressure sucks. I hope you get through it.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | I mean, they did, and that's a large part of the early feminist
         | movement, getting that recognized?
         | 
         | As well as the important truth that not woman is suited to,
         | likes, or wants to do 100% of the time.
        
         | merliossu wrote:
         | they still dont know. the narrative pushed by most of the woke
         | people is that it is slavery and demeaning to raise your
         | children and that women would rather make powerpoints for some
         | random white dude paid 40-70k$/year than be enslaved to raising
         | children
        
           | dctoedt wrote:
           | > _the narrative pushed by most of the woke people is that it
           | is slavery and demeaning to raise your children and that
           | women would rather make powerpoints for some random white
           | dude paid 40-70k$ /year than be enslaved to raising children_
           | 
           | I was about to respond with a snarky-yet-witty comment
           | refuting this, but then probably both of us would be running
           | afoul of HN guidelines.
        
             | geoduck14 wrote:
             | >> the narrative pushed by most of the woke people is that
             | it is slavery and demeaning to raise your children and that
             | women would rather make powerpoints for some random white
             | dude paid 40-70k$/year than be enslaved to raising children
             | 
             | Why is this comment running afoul of HN guidelines?
             | 
             | FWIW, I've heard this exact narrative expressed strongly by
             | certain Feminists. (Note: not all feminists are the same;
             | "woke" is a derogatory term that I do not assign to
             | "feminists")
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | The difference is payment of time in care work, and not just
           | for childcare but also for other forms of care (disabled,
           | elderly).
           | 
           | Another very big issue is poverty. Time used for raising
           | children doesn't count into pension payments, meaning that
           | women who divorce from their husbands end up without anything
           | in their name in the worst case.
        
             | monoideism wrote:
             | This attitude toward stay-at-home moms is not generally
             | found among the poor, just among middle class and up women
             | (and men), typically left-leaning.
             | 
             | Most poor mothers I've know would love to be stay-at-home
             | moms because they're only working to survive and not for
             | personal fulfillment, and because they love their kids.
        
               | sharikone wrote:
               | You claim correlation but that's not causation.
               | 
               | My guess is that more educated women are less willing to
               | be stay at home moms and that correlates with your
               | demographics. When you have a degree and dreams of a
               | career, giving up on them is harder.
               | 
               | Also, the stigma against stay at home moms is nothing,
               | nothing, compared to stay at home dads.
        
               | monoideism wrote:
               | > My guess is that more educated women are less willing
               | to be stay at home moms and that correlates with your
               | demographics. When you have a degree and dreams of a
               | career, giving up on them is harder.
               | 
               | That was pretty much my point.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > This attitude toward stay-at-home moms is not generally
               | found among the poor
               | 
               | Any women's shelter will disagree with you here. The rate
               | of women that go back to abusive partnerships is
               | immensely high among those who don't have any other
               | option to survive.
        
               | monoideism wrote:
               | I didn't downvote, but what does this have to do with
               | what I wrote?
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | Stay-at-home parenting being unpaid work is not an
               | "attitude," it's a fact of life. The leverage that
               | abusive wage-earners have over their "non-employed"
               | coparent is pretty strongly tied to their respective
               | affluence. This isn't a "left leaning" problem. It's a
               | problem of poverty, lack of education, and a lack of
               | society's willingness to pay parents to stay home and
               | work there.
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure that infrastructure to pay parents to
               | stay home counts as "socialism" which is vilified by the
               | right.
        
               | tehjoker wrote:
               | Different family configurations appeared in many
               | societies throughout history. The nuclear family is
               | encouraged by capitalist states because one parent (the
               | mother) staying home allows maximum flexibility for the
               | male to be at work making money for the bosses.
               | Importantly, the work the stay-at-home parent does is
               | free, meaning the ruling class can pay them as little as
               | possible. Nuclear families take up more real estate too,
               | earning more money for banks and landlords.
               | 
               | The liberal feminist movement in the 1970s changed this
               | equation somewhat. Now two parents work constantly, can
               | barely afford their lifestyle and no one cares for the
               | kids (or the latent gender role of the mother requires
               | her to effectively work two jobs at full capacity)! The
               | ruling class again wins at (again) the expense of the
               | future as the family configuration has become
               | biologically insufficient to reproduce. The additional
               | workers contributed by women also makes the labor market
               | more flexible for employers, another win.
               | 
               | Basically, we should ALL be doing less work and getting
               | more services. Some poorer people are again looking at
               | alternative family configurations because the nuclear
               | model isn't sufficient to sustain life under these
               | conditions.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | Many middle class women and up also do housekeeping and
               | care work. People are just different, and not everyone
               | finds fulfillment in working outside the home. In fact
               | with the pandemic making it so much easier to work while
               | staying at home, some of these women might choose to find
               | such work.
        
               | geoduck14 wrote:
               | My wife worked for several years. She stopped working
               | when we had our 4th and child care was too expensive.
               | 
               | Now that she is a stay-at-home mom, our quality of life
               | has improved a lot. She has more energy in the evening to
               | read with our kids, she follows up with friends and we
               | are both more social, she makes better food than either
               | of us could do before.
               | 
               | Having a stay-at-home parent is DEFINITELY a luxury and a
               | good decision IF you can afford it.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | The thing is, for those parents who can afford one parent
               | to stay home, in 99% of cases it's the mothers who end up
               | as stay-at-home parents, and their careers (and with it,
               | their post-childraising perspectives) go down the drain.
               | 
               | The current world abuses schools as whole day care
               | institutions so that both parents can be exploited and
               | worked to the ground, and when parents and children are
               | home they are so tired they lack the energy to do
               | anything meaningful besides eating some kind of processed
               | food, play a round of video games, and go to bed.
               | 
               | In an ideal world, a full working week with a living wage
               | would have 20 hours so that _both_ parents can work four
               | hours a day and then enjoy life with their children in
               | the afternoon.
        
         | AussieWog93 wrote:
         | To be fair, motherhood is a critical job and it's definitely in
         | our interest as a society to give it a higher status than it
         | has.
        
           | api wrote:
           | Same with teachers. The people who raise the next generation
           | have absurdly low recognition and status in our culture.
        
             | newsbinator wrote:
             | Teachers would have more recognition and status if there
             | were concrete evidence that their methods are effective and
             | based on reproducible research.
             | 
             | Is there a 10x teacher or even a 2x teacher? Surely there
             | is, but how would we know?
             | 
             | In Asian cultures a handful of teachers make a million
             | dollars a year because they do test prep: it's easy to tell
             | when their students pass or fail the big test. The most
             | successful ones are treated by parents and test-takers as
             | A-list celebrities, or even beyond that. They'd sooner
             | swoon meeting Gwen Lee than Scarlett Johansson.
             | 
             | But if you're teaching something harder to gauge, like
             | "writing" or physical education, then it's hard to know if
             | you're a 2x teacher or a 0.5x teacher. And you can't point
             | to your research-backed methodology, because everybody
             | else's methodology is also research-backed (n=22, observed
             | over 3~6 weeks, as usual).
             | 
             | The people who raise the next generation should have
             | recognition and status if they're doing a good job. Are
             | they? Would any random person off the street be doing an
             | equally good job? We don't really know.
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | > it's hard to know if you're a 2x teacher or a 0.5x
               | teacher.
               | 
               | Their students know. Even if it's a noisy metric, over
               | the course of a few years a teacher will have 100+
               | students.
        
           | vanderZwan wrote:
           | I agree with you, but shall we change that to "parenthood"?
           | Since we might as well push back against the stigma against
           | the father being the one who raises the children instead of
           | pursuing a career.
        
             | AussieWog93 wrote:
             | As someone who quit my job (back in Feb 2020, of all
             | times...) to spend more time with my then-unborn daughter,
             | I agree with you 100%.
        
             | JasonFruit wrote:
             | As a stay-at-home homeschooling father, I experienced that
             | stigma very briefly a decade ago, but it seemed to die a
             | sudden death shortly after 2010. I've felt nothing but
             | encouraged since. I think it's something that you'd expect
             | from the outside, but doesn't really show up in practice.
        
           | minikites wrote:
           | As a society, we could recognize the status with money in the
           | form of childcare grants and food assistance to parents, or
           | by raising wages so both parents don't have to work, but
           | neither of those is in the interest of the capital class, so
           | we don't.
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | > they did not know that moms are heroes and being a mom is a
         | full-time job
         | 
         | My experience is that being a full time mum is valued less now.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
       | There are a lot more stories like this that would be great to
       | unearth, rather than continuing to focus on the Jobs/Wozniak
       | story. Much as I did love my ][!
        
       | franhield wrote:
       | Great read; we can say that imagination is the limit for a
       | skilled programmer--great idea combined with skill results in a
       | good outcome.
        
       | severak_cz wrote:
       | I hope some of the retrotech youtubers create showdown of Vector
       | computer (or S-100 based machine in general). There seems to be
       | one demo[0], "vector graphics" is too generic search term.
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EXN6j0TZv4
        
       | megamix wrote:
       | I love housewives
        
       | brunovianna wrote:
       | it sounds just like the plot to halt and catch fire
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(TV_series...
        
         | wumms wrote:
         | You're right: "In the first season of the TV series, Halt and
         | Catch Fire, a fictional drama depicting the birth of the
         | personal computer industry in the 1980s, the pivot of company
         | Cardiff Electric resembles both the history of Corona Data
         | Systems and Compaq." [0]
         | 
         | (Corona Data Systems was co-founded by Robert Harp)
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_Data_Systems
        
         | vimy wrote:
         | I really hope Apple will make a folklore.org show in the style
         | of Halt and Catch Fire.
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | It's been done though with HCF, why would anyone but
           | superfans want to see the same thing again?
        
             | Kye wrote:
             | It's not unusual for there to be many fictional treatments
             | of the same history/source material.
        
               | apetresc wrote:
               | Sure, but when it's the fourth or fifth treatment about
               | the relatively recent founding of a single company that
               | is still dominant in the present day, and that treatment
               | is sponsored _by_ the company in question, it comes off
               | as self-serving.
        
             | Zelphyr wrote:
             | I'd love to see a dramatization of the making of the
             | Macintosh. I read _Revolution In The Valley_ not too long
             | ago and it 's fascinating to read about the personalities
             | of the people who created that machine. I think it would be
             | a nice compliment to _Halt and Catch Fire_ --a Mac version
             | to their PC-Compatible show.
        
               | vimy wrote:
               | Exactly this. I would love to see the Japanese Sony
               | engineer hiding in the closet from Steve Jobs.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | I've been hoping for a Silicon Valley style dramedy series
           | about the early days of open source. My headcasting for this
           | has Donal Logue as Richard Stallman, Nick Offerman as Eric
           | Raymond, and Cory Michael Smith as Linus.
        
       | shusaku wrote:
       | > Lore and Carole's emphasis on visual aesthetics led them to
       | offer this choice of colors at a time when many companies gave
       | little thought to what their computers looked like
       | 
       | Looking at their designs in the article, they just ooze cool.
        
         | thoughtsimple wrote:
         | My favorite is the 8k static memory board. It has 64 RAM chips
         | which means each one comes in at a whopping 128 bytes or 1k
         | bits.
        
       | amwelles wrote:
       | Why can't this headline say "two women?" Big yuck.
        
         | 55555 wrote:
         | women = adult females
         | 
         | bored 1970s housewives = bored adult females in the 1970s who
         | have forgone a professional occupation to be a homemaker
         | 
         | They used the latter because it's far more descriptive, and
         | these facts are relevant to the article.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | The title is literal, according to TFA the reason they started
         | the company because they were bored with being housewives.
         | 
         | >"I cannot stand being at home," said Lore in a 1983 New York
         | Times article. "It drives me insane. Everybody thought I was
         | strange because I would not go to the bridge club or have my
         | fingernails done."
         | 
         | >Lore Harp met a kindred spirit in the form of a neighbor,
         | Carole Ely, whose kids shared classes with the Harp children.
         | Like Lore, she found the life of a homemaker wanting. "We were
         | bored doing the housewife thing," recalls Ely today. "I was
         | ready to be something." Just a few years prior, Ely had worked
         | for large investment firms such as Merrill Lynch on the east
         | coast, and she was itching to get back to business.
        
         | fghfghfghfghfgh wrote:
         | Because the word "housewife" invokes a fuller mental image of
         | what general boring conditions those two women might be living
         | under?
        
         | eplanit wrote:
         | The same reason that the maker of the machine itself, the
         | husband, isn't mentioned in the title -- doesn't fit the
         | narrative. Who'd ever want to hear about a couple and a friend
         | starting a company? "Two Women" will get more attention, and
         | therefore sell more ads, which is the reason that the
         | publication exists.
        
         | johnp271 wrote:
         | Because the objective of a 'headline' is to get people to
         | continue reading, essentially it's clickbait. Which descriptive
         | choice gets more notice and is more likely to provoke continued
         | reading "two women" or "Two Bored...Housewives"?
        
         | Bigpet wrote:
         | I too get offended when salient information to the story is
         | part of the headline.
         | 
         | I never want to read "Motorist kills 2 pedestrians", or
         | "Policeofficer accused of planting evidence". It has to be
         | "Person killed 2 other people" and "person accused of planting
         | evidence" otherwise I am personally offended.
         | 
         | Bigger yuck.
        
           | cptnapalm wrote:
           | Anyone else remember when journalists were on some strange
           | anti-SUV crusade. "SUV crashes into pedestrians", "SUV runs
           | off bridge", "5 killed by SUV". The titles really read like
           | SUVs had been co-opted by Skynet and were causing all sorts
           | of mayhem.
        
       | johnx123-up wrote:
       | FWIW... related article: The Rise and Decline of Vector Graphic :
       | Management Mistakes and IBM Crush Couple's Computer Venture
       | (1985) https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-
       | xpm-1985-08-20-fi-2173-s...
        
       | nikkinana wrote:
       | Stick to porn
        
       | khazhoux wrote:
       | > "We were bored doing the housewife thing," recalls Ely today.
       | "I was ready to be something."
       | 
       | I find it interesting how it's generally acceptable for women to
       | insult other women who choose to devote their time to raising a
       | family. I mean, I get her point but the quote above is demeaning
       | as hell.
       | 
       | Since that's not likely to end anytime soon, I suppose it'd be
       | funny to see the insults fly in the other direction. Like,
       | stating how "working moms" are kidding themselves that they have
       | a full mother-child relationship. They've out-sourced a critical
       | and singular relationship to paid employees (the nanny --
       | assuming their spouse also works). They don't know what's going
       | on in their kids' lives, they don't know who in school is
       | bullying them, they don't know which kids are getting into drugs,
       | they only know the very surface of what their kids are dealing
       | with. They're lying to themselves to think they can both kick ass
       | at work and as a parent. They sacrificed precious childhood years
       | of emotional, mental, and life guidance, in exchange for their
       | paycheck.
       | 
       | None of the above is cool to say. But it's definitely OK to
       | demean in the other direction.
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I'm a male parent, working full-time, wife quit her
       | job when kids were born. She has never regretted the decision,
       | and is always super busy and never "bored." And me, I know 100%
       | there's an experience I've sadly forever missed of spending time
       | with my kids, especially pre-WFH.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | Working moms get those comments everyday, so I don't really get
         | your point.
        
           | khazhoux wrote:
           | I suppose it's that deriding stay-at-home parents is commonly
           | and socially acceptable (in media, articles like this, etc),
           | more so than in the other direction. I can't think of an
           | example, e.g. in media or press, where the working mother is
           | ridiculed.
           | 
           | But anyway, it's a matter of perspective, I suppose, and
           | which social bubble one inevitably inhabits.
        
         | exolymph wrote:
         | I see all of your anti-working-mom points regularly. It's a
         | matter of your social info bubble.
        
           | khazhoux wrote:
           | In general I agree, but I think only the one viewpoint is
           | commonly acceptable today in media and with thought leaders.
           | Maybe that's my bubble talking.
        
         | balb0a wrote:
         | "We were bored doing the housewife thing," recalls Ely today.
         | "I was ready to be something."
         | 
         | Sounds like the approach Edward Bernays would take
        
           | khazhoux wrote:
           | I don't get the reference. Is Edward Bernays well-known?
        
             | balb0a wrote:
             | I would say very well known in the propaganda scene. You
             | can check this "piano" article, I think it nicely shows the
             | idea behind: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/edward-bernays-
             | how-america-bo...
        
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