[HN Gopher] Show HN: Video conference from 6ft away using your h...
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       Show HN: Video conference from 6ft away using your hands or phone
       to interact
        
       Author : cody_otoro
       Score  : 117 points
       Date   : 2021-08-18 15:49 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wakasaba.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wakasaba.com)
        
       | ModernMech wrote:
       | Very cool, I could use something like this as I teach! I was
       | waiting for you to control that BB-8 remotely with your hands
       | though!
        
         | cody_otoro wrote:
         | @ModernMech, what do you teach if you don't mind me asking? I'd
         | love to hear from you at cody@wakasaba.com
         | 
         | FWIW, our product roadmap is quite malleable right now and we
         | could provide you with a room with higher time limits (+ some
         | other cool features we've been testing) if that's at all
         | enticing :)
        
       | saulrh wrote:
       | Can you provide integrations with other videoconferencing suites?
       | This would be great when I'm stuck reserving a huge conference
       | room and can't reach the controls from where I'm sitting, but
       | there's no way in heck I'm convincing my employer to switch from
       | $EnterpriseVideoconferencingSuite to your startup's offering.
       | However, since said enterprise videoconferencing suite does have
       | a webapp, said webapp is happy to communicate with browser
       | extensions, and you're doing everything with image recognition, I
       | bet you could do most of this stuff on my laptop so I could use
       | your UI without having to convince my employer to switch to your
       | servers/software/codecs/security/auditing.
        
       | dj_mc_merlin wrote:
       | I _love_ the execution. The business idea? Not so much. I just
       | don 't think there's a big market for video conferencing from 6ft
       | away.
       | 
       | My .2: find a way to generalize the applications. It's common to
       | start a business focusing on a specific niche and then expand,
       | but I have a feeling this would work better as something that can
       | integrate into many different other applications or workflows
       | rather than a standalone product.
        
         | saimiam wrote:
         | I can see a lot of Toastmasters clubs using some form of this
         | technology.
        
         | Kiro wrote:
         | I'm thinking this is for people like yoga live streamers, not
         | regular video conferencing.
        
         | dalbasal wrote:
         | >> don't think there's a big market for video conferencing from
         | 6ft away.
         | 
         | There's a chicken egg problem. Other than TVs, we don't really
         | have devices that we use from 6 feet away. These ideas tend to
         | come to fruition when either (a) you catch an egg in the act of
         | hatching or (b) laying. The rest of the time, novel media
         | usually lives in video games or porn.
         | 
         | One idea might be to make this a game, or game related. Playing
         | poker or something, even against friends on videoconference,
         | from a few feet away could be quite nice. I'm sure there are
         | porn ideas too.
        
         | staticautomatic wrote:
         | Reminds me of a UI designer I worked with once who had an idea
         | for controlling phone audio playback with gestures while
         | driving (with the phone in a cradle). There have to be lots of
         | other neat applications.
        
           | switchstance wrote:
           | BMW offers similar capabilities to aid in distraction free
           | driving.
           | 
           | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGwJh4da5w&vl=en
        
             | bellyfullofbac wrote:
             | Funny how she's still staring at the central console
             | display as she's doing the volume gestures...
             | 
             | IMO the physical volume knob is better than this
             | replacement, but I can see the usefulness of other
             | gestures..
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | > don't think there's a big market for video conferencing from
         | 6ft away.
         | 
         | Why on earth not? I've been in plenty of video conferences over
         | the years where plenty of the participants were more than 2 m
         | away from the camera and screen. So much so that I would say
         | that in my experience it was the most common way to do it in
         | the offices where I have worked.
         | 
         | Not everyone is using their mobile phone for conferencing you
         | know.
        
           | theptip wrote:
           | Is this a product or a feature though? Seems very much a
           | feature in a VC software product to me.
           | 
           | No moat; Google/Zoom will just build this if it's popular and
           | then you are out of business. Unless you can somehow stay
           | ahead of them with sophistication of the UI?
           | 
           | I think plenty of people would like this feature, I just
           | can't see many people paying for it.
        
       | hideo wrote:
       | Hello, I think this idea is fantastic. Since you said you've
       | prioritized getting this in front of people - please make sure
       | you're talking to folks who are doing remote fitness, yoga, and
       | dance classes.
       | 
       | I know several folks who would love something like this with a
       | different set of gestures and end-results. Especially smaller
       | operations who have switched from in-person to live during the
       | pandemic. The bigger shops have space for a dedicated operator,
       | but the smaller ones are just the instructors and their students
       | in a zoom call.
       | 
       | I think the key is going to be in arriving at the right set of
       | gestures for the right audience. e.g. yoga instructores are
       | probably looking for ways to minimize/maximize certain screens.
       | Aerobics instructors are looking to be able to mute and unmute
       | and send directed feedback. Both types are often struggling to
       | figure out lighting and how to position their cameras. On all
       | sides I think something simple like capturing the entire class
       | clapping along is hard to do. I think something like this would
       | be perfect for that market.
        
         | FajitaNachos wrote:
         | I think a remote with buttons that can be customized (think
         | hotkeys) that integrates with existing video conferencing
         | solutions is the holy grail
        
         | cody_otoro wrote:
         | > I know several folks who would love something like this
         | 
         | We'd love to talk to them! If you have any contacts who'd feel
         | comfortable talking to us and influencing where we go from
         | here, I'd love to hear from you / them at cody@wakasaba.com
         | 
         | > I think the key is going to be in arriving at the right set
         | of gestures for the right audience...
         | 
         | This makes sense. We've mostly been working with Pilates
         | instructors, but this is a good reminder to talk to people
         | running all types of remote fitness classes.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | cody_otoro wrote:
       | Hey everyone!
       | 
       | I'm Cody, one of the founders of WakaSaba. Traditional video
       | conferencing platforms like Zoom assume that you're right in
       | front of your device. We created WakaSaba for "distance first"
       | video conferencing and have built novel ways to interact with
       | your room and control your device from afar:
       | 
       | - Hand Tracking: Turn your hands into a mouse and use it to
       | point, select, and click. Supports basic room controls like
       | muting / unmuting yourself and more advanced features like
       | controlling a countdown timer that's shown to everyone in the
       | room
       | 
       | - Gesture Recognition: React to anything that happens with your
       | hands. We capture certain hand gestures and broadcast them to
       | everyone in a fun, engaging, and minimally(?) intrusive way
       | 
       | - Phone Pairing: Scan a QR code to turn your phone into a remote
       | with access to additional controls and interactive features
       | 
       | Another core feature of our platform is that it's all in the
       | browser. We explicitly designed WakaSaba so that users wouldn't
       | need to download additional software or install any apps.
       | 
       | We originally built this for online fitness instructors, but
       | recently have been thinking about what other industries and use
       | cases might benefit from our technology. As a result, we've
       | reoriented our landing page to focus less on "why" you might use
       | our platform and more on "what" you can do with it. Now we want
       | to get it in front of people to collect thoughts and general
       | feedback.
       | 
       | Instructions if you want to try it out:
       | 
       | 1) There's a `Try a Free Room` button on our homepage
       | 
       | 2) Clicking it will create a room that you can join / invite
       | anyone to for 40 minutes, no email or sign up required
       | 
       | 3) Before joining the room, there are some tutorial screens that
       | go over our core feature set
       | 
       | Sorry in advance for any rough edges! We've deliberately
       | prioritized getting this in front of people above all else :)
       | 
       | If you encounter any issues or have any questions / feedback I'm
       | all ears! I should be around for the next couple hours.
        
       | achairapart wrote:
       | Just look out for the hand gestures, some represent a variety of
       | meanings and may be even offensive in certain
       | countries/cultures[0].
       | 
       | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_the_horns
        
       | Majestic121 wrote:
       | I think the idea is super cool, and the execution works very well
       | ! Definitely much better than what I anticipated.
       | 
       | The first thing that jumped to my mind is not that I can use it
       | from 6ft away, but mostly that it can be used to control things
       | even if I don't have the conf call window I'm in in the
       | foreground (which happens to me quite a lot).
       | 
       | Some ideas I had while playing with it :
       | 
       | - Some sound feedback would be nice, for example a little bip
       | when switching from value to value in a menu : in the context of
       | not having the call in the foreground, it allows to make sure
       | that the gesture is registered.
       | 
       | - Swipe gestures could be a nice addition, for example a swipe up
       | or down to mute/unmute the mic
       | 
       | - I'm overall less convinced by the "control by phone" flow
       | 
       | - It's surprising for the welcome video to be without sound : I
       | initially thought my headphones where not connected or something.
       | Overall, I think the welcome video present the functionalities
       | very well and goes straight to the point, which is very
       | appreciable ! But it feels a bit rough around the edges.
       | 
       | - A bit of smoothing when selecting would make the experience a
       | bit better : I don't want to know that my fingers are shaking
       | this much !
       | 
       | But in any case, congratulation on the product, it's really
       | really cool !
        
       | the-dude wrote:
       | Hi Cody,
       | 
       | For one I think it looks awesome and there might be a lot of
       | potential.
       | 
       | That said, I think you should redo the video with long sleeves
       | and pants. From the get-go, I can't be sure you won't be doing
       | indecent things. I think it is too casual to be shared
       | frictionless in a business setting.
       | 
       | Best of luck.
        
         | corndoge wrote:
         | Are we looking at the same video? He's wearing shorts and a
         | t-shirt, something you might see in any warm climate anywhere
         | in the world (that isn't a caliphate)
        
         | mguerville wrote:
         | Agreed, beyond the casualness it feels like a little hacked
         | experiment right now. Better lighting, background and outfit
         | would make a massive difference in overall vibe in my opinion.
         | I like the idea though
        
         | jacknews wrote:
         | What kind of 'business setting'? This looks ideal for certain
         | professional online, uh, performers.
         | 
         | And of course teaching yoga, aerobics, fitness, etc, etc.
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | I didn't have any worry about "indecent things", but I did feel
         | like those particular shorts gave it an ultra-casual feeling.
         | Like a day at the beach.
         | 
         | But perhaps that's the idea. This isn't some stuffy business-
         | only thing, it's a system that could be used by anyone.
        
       | mattowen_uk wrote:
       | I love this, but I think it's one of those ideas, where people
       | dismiss it as impractical at the time, but then it comes back in
       | force a couple of years down the line.
       | 
       | IF video conferencing is here to stay, then we would expect to
       | see more larger screen consumer[1] devices appear with it built
       | in. This has started to happen - Facebook has Portal and Amazon
       | have Echo Show. Scale that up to a on-wall TV of 50"+ and you've
       | got your room-size video conferencing setup, at which point
       | gesture control will be a very nice add-on.
       | 
       | Right now though, people are still wrestling with how to do video
       | calls, whist at their desks or with laptops on their laps.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | [1] Yes I know, that corporations have 'video conferencing ROOMS'
       | with massive screens and multiple cameras but those are mega
       | bucks, and not deployed en-mass.
        
       | vibranium_cough wrote:
       | The Mmhmm app has a feature like this implemented really well.
       | This would be great to see integrated into video conferencing in
       | general as the space gets more attention.
        
         | cody_otoro wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing! Mmhmm wasn't on our radar, but we had
         | considered applying our tech to "virtual business presentations
         | at a distance". Interesting to see how Mmhmm is approaching the
         | problem of making virtual presentations more engaging.
        
       | ericmichael wrote:
       | Interesting technology I think it is super cool and the
       | implementation looks good.
       | 
       | Some feedback: 1) I would really like to stress that you should
       | be including and focusing on _why_ more than the what. The whole
       | time reading the landing page I was wonder _why_ this exists and
       | what problem it would solve. It is better to speak to someone
       | than to speak to no one.
       | 
       | 2) Use a higher quality video. I think some of the other comments
       | are focused on the fact that you are a guy in shorts in a video.
       | It would tell a more interesting story to give a demo of at least
       | one situation or several situations where this would be useful. I
       | would get a lot more out of this video if you staged a group
       | fitness class or 1-on-1 training. This would give me a reason
       | _why_ this exists but with relevant context. If the video was
       | higher quality and it was a fitness setting I don't think anyone
       | would care that you were in shorts
       | 
       | 3) Interface Controls section. This section is confusing because
       | the user cannot see the interface just the gestures. It would be
       | better to give off a list of features and benefits rather than
       | going into _how_ you use a feature with the specific gestures.
       | Too much complexity when people haven't bought into the concept
       | yet. Which reminds me, you should focus on selling the concept
       | more than telling me step-by-step how to use it.
       | 
       | 4) More controls from phone. This section is a relief because
       | controlling everything using gestures _sounds_ exhausting. Maybe
       | it isn't. But this should be more emphasized than the specific
       | gestures. Controlling everything from my phone seems more
       | intuitive for most people. And having the gestures for an
       | interruption free experience seems like a nice to have.
       | 
       | 5) Have you had a yoga or fitness instructor try this yet? Have
       | you all done a live demo with them to validate the problem? Not
       | saying you haven't, but if you have those are probably the best
       | screenshots or video clips to show. If you have done them why
       | aren't you showing us that. If you haven't done them, what are
       | you waiting for?
       | 
       | I run a martial arts school and we have fitness classes. We also
       | do private and group sessions. I can definitely see the use, but
       | you gotta sell it. What is the dream you are selling for us? How
       | is this better than in-person classes? Is it worse? Is it worse
       | but makes us safe from COVID? Is it the next revolutionary way to
       | bring fitness classes online in our new environment? Can
       | influencers use this to monetize their audience?
        
       | sappho wrote:
       | I could see gestural controls like this being a useful feature
       | for Twitch streamers, too! It seems like a form of gesture-based
       | control that's reliable, fast, and powerful enough that it isn't
       | just a gimmick.
        
       | fooblat wrote:
       | Something to consider: To stand 6' away and still be able to read
       | the things people at my company present via screen share I would
       | need a 10' screen (or binoculars).
       | 
       | edit: typos
        
       | dalbasal wrote:
       | This makes me curious about sign language recognition.
       | 
       | I"m definitely willing to learn a sign keyboard if it means not
       | typing with arrows. If it also knows a full vocabulary...
        
       | chromaton wrote:
       | The Obsbot Tiny webcam also has some gesture control, but not
       | quite as extensive as this. I love the tracking feature that lets
       | me move around without having to about staying in the frame.
        
       | themanmaran wrote:
       | After playing with it for a bit, the two finger swipe and click
       | feels pretty intuitive.
       | 
       | But the 'rock on' thumb swipe still feels a little uncomfortable.
       | Especially when I get used to gesturing with my right hand, and
       | then I have to carry my arm over my body to get to the
       | Mute/UnMute.
       | 
       | Have you considered just pulling in some American sign language?
       | The controls (mute, tile, etc.) could even have a depection of
       | the hand symbol.
        
       | sfink wrote:
       | I've been thinking about doing something like this forever, but
       | never taken the time to sit down and do it. (And probably
       | couldn't have done a particularly good job of it anyway.) My main
       | usage scenarios are:
       | 
       | - using my hand as a mouse in space-constrained situations where
       | I can't have a physical mouse
       | 
       | - dance class, so the instructor can seek through music,
       | especially for rewinding to the same starting spot over and over
       | again. (This is from the days of in-person classes; it drove me
       | nuts that the instructor had to keep walking back to his phone
       | and then getting it a few beats off)
       | 
       | - spellcasting game
       | 
       | For many uses, I'd be really concerned with false positives. I
       | don't want to have to pin my arms to my sides to avoid triggering
       | something. I'd also want it to be pretty robust to different
       | angles, so I don't have to get my hand exactly parallel to the
       | camera. (Seeing yourself is pretty good for smoothing this over,
       | since at least you'll notice when you're not pointing in quite
       | the right direction. But some applications would be much nicer if
       | they were usable without seeing yourself.)
       | 
       | Overall, this feels more like a tech demo than an application.
       | Sadly, you'll probably have to pick some niche to focus on,
       | because I think the tradeoffs are going to be very different. And
       | dance teachers and yoga instructors don't have much money.
       | (WakaSaba also doesn't exactly suggest the functionality to this
       | English-speaker.)
        
       | ekulianova wrote:
       | This looks amazing! However, as other commentators say: right now
       | there are not a lot of use cases for that. It will be hard to go
       | to market because you'll have to create that market. I wish you
       | good luck in that because potentially this can be something huge!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | cody_otoro wrote:
       | Hey folks! Cody from WakaSaba again.
       | 
       | Honestly blown away by all the amazing feedback / thoughts here.
       | I was not expecting to wake up to this considering this post had
       | 3 upvotes when I went to bed haha
       | 
       | Just wanted to let you know that my cofounder, Vince, and I are
       | slowly making our way through all of the comments and hope to
       | thank / answer most of you properly soon :)
        
       | yunusabd wrote:
       | Now the real challenge would be to make it work from six feet
       | _under_. ;)
       | 
       | I'm joking, but I wonder if I'm the only one who made that
       | connection. Otherwise a different tag line might work better.
       | 
       | Apart from that I agree with the other posts regarding the
       | business idea and choice of wardrobe in the demo.
       | 
       | I really like the idea of using your phone as a remote, I think
       | this kind of I/O is generally underutilized. Personally I would
       | explore that space some more, even though it's not as flashy as
       | the gesture recognition.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-19 23:02 UTC)