[HN Gopher] At Shul, We Drink Single Malt: On "A Fortress in Bro...
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       At Shul, We Drink Single Malt: On "A Fortress in Brooklyn"
        
       Author : drdee
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2021-08-18 00:33 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lareviewofbooks.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lareviewofbooks.org)
        
       | smitty1e wrote:
       | Reading this, I was struck by a similarity in the strength of the
       | distinctiveness (obviously not the content) between the Hasidim
       | and the Amish.
        
         | not_throw_away wrote:
         | And that was the basis of an in-joke in the movie The Frisco
         | Kid when Gene Wilder called out to the landsmann !
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | The urban Amish
        
           | steviedotboston wrote:
           | While their way of dress seems similar, the comparisons
           | really stop there. Hasidim don't have an opposition to
           | technology. They drive, use electricity, have cell phones,
           | etc. B&H Photo in NY is run by Satmar Hasidim, for example.
        
             | MaysonL wrote:
             | Well, both groups also have many more children than
             | average, thus requiring ever-expanding amounts of real
             | estate.
        
             | TchoBeer wrote:
             | >have cell phones
             | 
             | My impression was that this isn't true? It's at least true
             | of some Hasidim, maybe Satmar was different.
        
             | schoen wrote:
             | I think there are lots of other parallels you could draw.
             | 
             | * Religion is supposed to define almost every aspect of
             | life and culture.
             | 
             | * Unlike many other Jewish and Christian movements and
             | communities, both groups emphasize visible, conscious,
             | active separatism from surrounding cultures. (Whereas other
             | orthodox Jews not uncommonly wear clothes typical of their
             | neighbors and work in secular cultural vocations, like
             | secular university teaching or even being the host of
             | Jeopardy.)
             | 
             | * As a sibling comment pointed out, having lots of kids is
             | encouraged.
             | 
             | * There is a process by which local authorities can
             | interpret the rules, and their interpretations are binding
             | on their communities. (If you don't like them, you need to
             | leave the community to be subject to a different
             | community's interpretation.)
             | 
             | * There are different communities with different
             | interpretations and traditions, but, within certain
             | parameters, they may respect and accept each other,
             | intermarry, cooperate in various ways, and so on.
             | 
             | The hasidim do also regulate the use of technology by their
             | members (this article alludes to Internet restrictions, for
             | example), but maybe on a "default allow" rather than
             | "default deny" basis.
             | 
             | It seems like the Amish prioritize keeping their
             | communities based around certain kinds of work (farming and
             | small-scale crafts and manufacturing), and also keeping
             | them rural. Hasidim have made a switch to urban (and, as
             | the article notes, suburban) living.
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | > Hasidim don't have an opposition to technology.
             | 
             | Technically, as I understand it, neither do the Amish. They
             | have opposition to _uses_ of technology that they feel
             | undermine the social, and particularly family, structure.
             | This may result on bans on technology which is seen as
             | prone to such use and for which there isn 't a combination
             | of positive use and prescribed manner of use that
             | adequately mitigates the problem (the exact boundaries of
             | which differing between different Amish groups.)
        
             | cainxinth wrote:
             | I've been shopping at B&H for decades. The similarity goes
             | beyond clothes.
             | 
             | The Hassids and the Amish basically decided that their
             | society should, as much as possible, try to replicate their
             | existence in 18th century Europe.
             | 
             | The Amish have gone further in that attempt, but both want
             | to block out modern influences to a large extent.
             | 
             | Not saying it's good or bad, but that's what they are
             | doing.
        
               | alisonkisk wrote:
               | Nothing except clothing and religious spiritual belief is
               | "18th Century".
               | 
               | An on-line camera store is not 18th Century.
        
       | flerchin wrote:
       | There's not a strict religious group in the world that seems to
       | be happy.
        
         | weimerica wrote:
         | You only hear the malcontents.
        
         | alisonkisk wrote:
         | There's not a secular group that seems to be happy either.
        
         | yaacov wrote:
         | I know a good number of Hasidim (no Satmars though) and they
         | seem about as happy on average as everyone else, maybe a little
         | happier.
        
         | JasonFruit wrote:
         | You'd have to talk to them directly to hear about the people
         | who are completely satisfied with their lives in strict
         | religious groups. Naturally, such a group isn't for everyone,
         | and drama and conflict make more interesting stories, so that's
         | what you see in news and fiction.
        
       | avipars wrote:
       | Capturing all the jews here
        
       | prvc wrote:
       | >Restrictive covenants that allow private owners to discriminate
       | on the basis of race, ethnicity, or religion were deemed illegal
       | by the Supreme Court in 1948, and the 1968 Fair Housing Act
       | prohibits refusing to sell or rent on the basis of membership in
       | a protected class. But in this case, it was the protected class
       | doing the discriminating.
       | 
       | The article was not clear about this, but one gathers that these
       | laws were never enforced for that reason?
        
         | alisonkisk wrote:
         | >> But in this case, it was the protected class doing the
         | discriminating.
         | 
         | That's a Category Error. "Religion" is a protected class.
         | "Jewish" is not a protected class.
        
         | Gunax wrote:
         | My guess is it was not enforced because it's a politicaloy
         | savvy community and there wasn't sufficient outrage to justify
         | enforcement.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | This article confuses the idea that certain race/ethnicity are
         | "protected classes", versus the idea of race/ethnicity itself
         | being a protected class. It's always a "protected class" doing
         | the discriminating, because everyone has a race/ethnicity.
         | There's no special law that protects Jews and blacks but
         | doesn't protect Indians or whites.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-18 23:02 UTC)