[HN Gopher] Tell Apple: Don't Scan Our Phones
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       Tell Apple: Don't Scan Our Phones
        
       Author : sunrise54
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2021-08-17 21:16 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (act.eff.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (act.eff.org)
        
       | new_realist wrote:
       | It can be more transparent to scan on users devices, which are in
       | the possession of the public, than it can be to scan through user
       | dat in the cloud, which is hosed in private and controlled "black
       | box" data centers. This can be a step forward for user privacy
       | and auditability, if Apple plays it that way.
        
       | iso1210 wrote:
       | Disappointing number of signatures, 471 so far (2132 GMT)
       | 
       | I wonder how the Taliban would love to use this type of
       | technology.
        
       | finger wrote:
       | Don't forget iPad OS.
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | Don't just sign this.
       | 
       | Call or email your representatives and ask them to support the
       | _Open App Markets Act_ and the _Digital Fair Repair Act_.
       | 
       | https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representati...
       | 
       | https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm
       | 
       | edit: Wow, two popular Apple stories removed from the HN front
       | page today. How many more go down like this?
        
       | 99mans wrote:
       | This petition, or whatever it is supposed to be, completely mis-
       | characterizes the problem entirely. It isn't that Apple can scan
       | photos, it's that Apple can install any software of their
       | choosing at any time, whether they choose to tell you or not.
       | Therefore, there is no expectation of privacy on such closed
       | source proprietary platforms.
        
       | vezycash wrote:
       | Once Apple releases this 'feature', a law would eventually be
       | passed to force Google to add the same to Android.
        
         | DrBenCarson wrote:
         | Oh don't worry, Google is way ahead of Apple when it comes to
         | scanning users' data on devices. I would be surprised if Google
         | weren't doing this but remotely (vs. on-device).
        
           | aaomidi wrote:
           | They are doing this remotely, and the thing is its BETTER to
           | do it remotely than on device.
           | 
           | The issue here with Apple is that they want to move this type
           | of scanning on-device. No one has really complained about
           | them scanning for CSAM on iCloud.
           | 
           | The data is NOT e2ee in iCloud, there is literally no reason
           | for them to move this scanning to on-device.
        
       | DrBenCarson wrote:
       | > Under pressure from U.S. law enforcement, Apple has put a
       | backdoor into their encryption system.
       | 
       | I'm not on board with what Apple's doing here, but is there any
       | evidence to suggest this statement? From what I know, this is at
       | best misleading and at worst downright false. For example, the
       | scanning is done on user devices so that image data remains
       | encrypted from the time it leaves a users' phone to the time it
       | is retrieved by a user (from any client).
        
         | 99mans wrote:
         | Exactly right, from what you know, which is limited to the
         | point of useless on a proprietary, closed source system. It's
         | almost guaranteed to be backdoored being as such.
        
           | zepto wrote:
           | > It's almost guaranteed to be backdoored being as such.
           | 
           | I.e. it's a guess.
        
         | aborsy wrote:
         | Like, what sort of evidence do you want exactly?
         | 
         | Apple can search for arbitrary information on user's property.
         | If you can search ciphertext, it's not end to end encrypted
         | anymore. End to end means no knowledge of plaintext should be
         | discernible (sometimes even metadata).
         | 
         | Further, the dataset is set by them, is opaque and can be
         | anything.
         | 
         | That's obviously a back door in encryption (for government).
        
           | zepto wrote:
           | > Apple can search for arbitrary information on user's
           | property.
           | 
           | This is simply false, if you are referring to the CSAM
           | mechanism.
        
             | josephcsible wrote:
             | What do you think is stopping Apple from including a hash
             | of Tank Man along with all of the real CSAM hashes?
        
               | sharken wrote:
               | I guess it is a rhetorical question, but this is what
               | will happen next if Apple doesn't halt this scanning
               | initiative.
               | 
               | Too big to listen seems to be what Apple thinks of this
               | matter.
        
             | aborsy wrote:
             | Which part is false?
             | 
             | They state they begin with image data (with a data set they
             | control). In the future, they "can" evolve the scope to
             | anything.
             | 
             | Read the EFF articles. They are well written.
        
         | zepto wrote:
         | It's both false and unsubstantiated. As described, it is not a
         | back door, and there is no evidence that it was done under
         | pressure.
         | 
         | Either of them could turn out to be true, given some evidence.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | This is not a useful petition. Regardless of the outcome, their
       | nature has been shown once again, but this time it is in a more
       | egregious and nefarious manner, and a lot more people are taking
       | notice.
       | 
       | The reason it's not useful is that it temporarily hides away a
       | side, or an image, that users aren't comfortable with. It will
       | not change intentions and facts, it only exists so that people
       | with brand loyalty and a brand identity can feel better about
       | being tied to an ecosystem.
       | 
       | The problem here is the brand identity, in a truly privacy
       | friendly ecosystem, no such thing should exist. I encourage
       | people to not sign it, and instead reflect on what privacy
       | options do exist without a marketing message telling you what it
       | should be.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-17 23:02 UTC)