[HN Gopher] Mailable Live Animals
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mailable Live Animals
        
       Author : bobbiechen
       Score  : 206 points
       Date   : 2021-08-17 15:15 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pe.usps.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pe.usps.com)
        
       | aae42 wrote:
       | picking up packages of bees at the post office is hilarious (they
       | won't deliver it all the way to your house)
       | 
       | i love doing the 'ol "oops i'm gonna drop it" routine as i walk
       | out the door past the horrified people standing in line to buy
       | stamps
        
       | metalliqaz wrote:
       | Interesting that they have a specific carve-out for scorpions. It
       | appears there is a good reason (making "antivenin"), but why only
       | scorpions?
        
         | hknapp wrote:
         | https://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/sep/11/heres-why-you-can-mail...
        
           | metalliqaz wrote:
           | the scorpion lobby, heh
        
             | twic wrote:
             | I mean, if Big Scorpion tells you to do something, _you do
             | it_.
        
       | markstos wrote:
       | Can confirm. Lived on farm. Used to get bees in the mail.
        
       | matmann2001 wrote:
       | "Let me pop a quick 'H' on this box, this way we all know that
       | it's filled with hornets."
        
       | sethammons wrote:
       | We've gotten chicks, salt water fish, coral, ladybugs, and live
       | fish food all through the mail. But apparently we can't mail my
       | buddy in a different state some local beer. Oh well, I love my
       | fresh eggs and colorful reef tank :)
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | I had an aquarium and the snail died. I wrote to the compoany,
       | they mailed me a snail. It was great.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | Snail mail. For real.
        
       | xyzzy21 wrote:
       | This is how I sometimes get my chicken, turkey, duck and geese
       | chicks. The other is from local sources.
       | 
       | At one time you could send human children by US Mail as well.
       | 
       | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/brief-history-chil...
       | 
       | When I had security clearances involving classified documents and
       | dealt with radioactive materials, BOTH of those were shippable by
       | US Mail also.
        
         | watersb wrote:
         | Excellent. I was totally sure someone would post the Mail-a-
         | Child(tm) glory days.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | If you expand your definition of "mailing" things, all sorts of
       | creatures can be sent.
       | 
       | I once mailed a cat via Delta Airlines. Brought the kitty in a
       | carrier to a special desk at the airport with the forms and
       | certificates and a fist full of cash and a few hours later, he
       | was in New York.
       | 
       | I know that sharks and elephants and such can be shipped via
       | FedEx, but I don't consider that "mailing" because the handlers
       | stay with those high-value critters.
        
         | TheAdamist wrote:
         | There's an interesting British tv show "animal airport" that
         | covers the 24/7 operation at Heathrow airport that deals with
         | the animals coming through.
         | 
         | Lots of paperwork issues, but occasionally random zoo animals
         | turn up on planes due to misdirected air cargo/shenanigans. As
         | well as the scheduled exotics and tons of domestic animals to
         | be quarantined.
         | 
         | Far less handlers than you'd expect for the exotics. Mostly
         | just really sturdy crates.
         | 
         | Used to be available streaming.
        
       | alexfromapex wrote:
       | I've heard you can also mail a potato if you slap the right
       | amount of stamps on it
        
       | bigboto wrote:
       | I totally misread the title as Malleable Live Animals
        
         | Anonymous4272 wrote:
         | Thats why i clicked lol
        
         | handrous wrote:
         | Heh. Like the old Bonsai Kitten hoax website.
        
       | chris_st wrote:
       | I remember going in late to work, in order to receive my
       | daughter's lizard via delivery. I was very concerned, but several
       | years later he's doing just fine.
        
       | newdude116 wrote:
       | You can't send children anymore:
       | 
       | https://www.history.com/news/mailing-children-post-office
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | Which seems like a missed opportunity for a service all its
         | own: a babysitter who babysits _while_ bringing the child
         | somewhere, rather than in a static location. Which _could_ mean
         | "Uber where every driver has a babysitting certificate and the
         | car has a bassinet and a minifridge" _or_ it could mean
         | "someone who'll watch over your child on public transit." It's
         | fundamentally about the babysitting, not really about providing
         | the transportation.
        
       | btilly wrote:
       | One important restriction on mailing is that you CANNOT mail
       | fertile ants through USPS. Which means that all of those ant
       | farms you see being sold to kids? You pay money, and get some
       | sterile workers who are guaranteed to die pretty fast, leaving an
       | unhappy kid.
       | 
       | If you want a real ant farm, you need to either collect ants
       | locally, or buy ants in person from someone who did themselves.
       | And you'd better known the rules if you want to cross state lines
       | with your ants.
       | 
       | (Source, I have a teenager who loooves ants and knows everything
       | about them. He now has multiple species of ants that he keeps.)
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | Can you ship fertile ants through UPS or Fedex?
        
         | ethn wrote:
         | This whole time I thought I did something wrong.
        
         | vishbar wrote:
         | That is really interesting! I never had an ant farm, and I'm
         | glad I didn't given what you've said.
         | 
         | Are ants similar to bees in that there's one egg-laying "queen"
         | that you have to gather, or can you just gather a collection of
         | individuals from a colony?
         | 
         | Your kid probably already knows about this, but have him check
         | out the YouTuber AntsCanada. I'm not particularly into ants but
         | I find his videos fascinating.
        
           | JulianMorrison wrote:
           | Ants have queens. Ants are a kind of flightless wasp, they
           | have a lot of commonalities with the wasp/bee family.
        
           | btilly wrote:
           | My kid has been aware of AntsCanada for a long time, and has
           | purchased lots of supplies from them.
           | 
           | Yes, most ants are similar to bees in that way. In fact ants
           | and bees are very closely related. But a few kinds of ants
           | (for example the invasive Argentine ants), can have multiple
           | queens in a colony that cooperate with each other.
           | 
           | The reason for this rule is the ease with which ants become
           | invasive species, and how much damage they can do.
        
             | hashkb wrote:
             | Does your kid know about SimAnt?
        
               | btilly wrote:
               | He's at school so I can't just ask him.
               | 
               | But if it comes to ants, I'm willing to bet money that he
               | knows it.
               | 
               | I remember being at a bug fair with him a few years back.
               | There was a grad student with a display including some
               | fossilized ants. My son came over, looked, identified the
               | genus, began pointing out the identifying characteristics
               | and named multiple related current species. The grad
               | student's jaw dropped open. The only things that the grad
               | student knew which my son didn't was how old the fossil
               | was and where it was found.
               | 
               | And here is some fun trivia. If you look, between the
               | thorax (where the legs grow) and the gaster (the bulb at
               | the end), there is a very, very skinny petiole. The only
               | food that can pass through that and keep the ant alive is
               | high energy fluid. So a major problem for every species
               | of ant is how to turn the world around into such a fluid
               | so that they can eat it.
        
         | bonnie76 wrote:
         | Tell your teenager the world needs more people like him if
         | we're going to save the worlds insects. We need more
         | entomologist.
        
           | wincy wrote:
           | I don't know, insects have been doing pretty well for a long
           | time, and only one large group of insects that we know of has
           | ever gone extinct, even during the absolutely horrific
           | Permian-Triassic extinction event.
           | 
           | I know as humans our impulse is to "do something about it",
           | but I think insects are gonna be fine.
        
             | btilly wrote:
             | Insects may do fine, but individual species are another
             | story.
             | 
             | For example through most of Los Angeles, if you see an ant
             | it is probably an Argentine ant (Linepithema humile). Over
             | my son's life, the variety of native ants to be found near
             | me has visibly declined.
        
               | dexterdog wrote:
               | That's probably not so much climate change as it is
               | invading foreign species.
        
               | btilly wrote:
               | And the reduction in flying insects documented in https:/
               | /journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
               | is unlikely to be climate change either. Nor is
               | https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-protection/colony-
               | collapse-di....
               | 
               | Not everything is about climate change.
        
               | markdown wrote:
               | What isn't about climate change soon will be.
        
             | ryanianian wrote:
             | Sure insects in general will be "fine", but ecosystems will
             | have to be rebuilt over time with the different dynamics.
             | 
             | Take bees/pollinators. Another species could evolve or
             | otherwise step in to fill the gap, but it could well result
             | in many other plant and animal species also going extinct
             | in the process.
             | 
             | Similar scenario with climate change. The earth will
             | continue to exist and there will continue to be weather.
             | But that weather could be a lot more inhospitable to our
             | very narrow definition of habitable.
        
               | onemoresoop wrote:
               | Yes, I know global warming doesn't mean the end of the
               | (human) world as many suspect and are skeptical about.
               | Humans will find a way to survive in special habitats and
               | in much smaller numbers. What's at stake is the current
               | civilization. With civilization's collapse we're bound to
               | repeat this progress to self-destruction cycle.
        
         | Jun8 wrote:
         | Yep, my son did buy his first colony from a local college kid,
         | through the GAN Project: https://www.antscanada.com/queen-ants-
         | for-sale/. Since he was away, his mom brought the colony to us,
         | we met discreetly at a library, felt a bit like a spy
         | transaction :-)
        
         | ApolloFortyNine wrote:
         | Actually there are two species that were made legal to ship in
         | the US last year. More information (and for sale) here. [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://tarheelants.com/pages/ant-queen-and-colony-adoption
        
           | btilly wrote:
           | Awesome.
           | 
           | I wish they were legal a decade ago when we were trying to
           | figure out how to buy ant farms...
        
       | esalman wrote:
       | As a non-immigrant, USPS is probably the #3 most impressive thing
       | to me about the US after the interstate highways and national
       | parks.
        
         | markdown wrote:
         | As a non-athlete, I agree.
        
           | diogenesjunior wrote:
           | What is your first and second?
        
       | bigyikes wrote:
       | I'm surprised to not see fish listed. When I was a kid my dad
       | would receive live fish from saltwaterfish.com. They would show
       | up in insulated containers, alive, if a bit stressed. I guess
       | they must've come via one of the private mail carriers.
       | 
       | Edit: Whoops, I can't read!
        
         | stickydink wrote:
         | Requirements for "Goldfish" and "Tropical Fish" are listed
         | under the "Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded Animals" section
        
         | KANahas wrote:
         | They are listed, under "526.6 Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded
         | Animals"
         | 
         | Goldfish
         | 
         | Tropical Fish
         | 
         | - Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
         | 
         | - Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
         | 
         | - Primary receptacle must be cushioned with sufficient
         | absorbent material to take up all liquid in case of leakage.
         | 
         | - Primary receptacle and absorbent cushioning material must be
         | sealed within waterproof outer (shipping) packaging.
        
       | 1-6 wrote:
       | I love Easter eggs!
        
       | learc83 wrote:
       | My stepdad does maintenance for the Post Office. He has some
       | stories.
       | 
       | Someone shipped a small alligator once. It peed in the cardboard
       | box it was in and it got wet enough for it to escape inside a
       | sorting machine. Imagine his surprise when he opened up the
       | machine to see what was causing the errors.
        
       | shapefrog wrote:
       | > Other small, harmless, cold-blooded animals
       | 
       | Sounds like a bit like my ex wife.
        
         | hnbad wrote:
         | I for one am glad that cultural acceptance for these jokes is
         | fading, mostly because young people generally no longer find
         | the sentiment relatable because they're no longer expected to
         | marry the first person they want to sleep with.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | Your comment reveals your own cultural biases. Look inward
           | before looking outward.
        
             | javert wrote:
             | That seems more applicable to your comment than the one
             | you're replying to.
             | 
             | But maybe that's just my cultural biases speaking.
        
               | shapefrog wrote:
               | I think its your cultural biases as work, or is it mine?
               | So hard to tell these days.
        
           | FooBarBizBazz wrote:
           | I assume it was a mail-order bride joke? Shrug.
           | 
           | I can imagine what would drive someone to enter one of those
           | relationships (from either side), but I can't imagine that
           | you'd feel good about it (on either side).
           | 
           | It's bad enough dealing with Westerners who seem to be in it
           | for the money.
           | 
           | As for our current cultural expectations, I think the idea is
           | supposed to be that you play musical chairs until you hit
           | your mid-to-late thirties, at which point you give up and
           | marry whoever you happen to be with at the time, silently
           | regretting the one that got away.
           | 
           | Better? I dunno. It does result in fewer children.
           | 
           | People would probably be happier if they married at 18 after
           | their high school prom, and before anyone's fortunes were
           | known.
        
             | shapefrog wrote:
             | It's a 'my ex wife is a small, cold blooded but ultimately
             | harmless joke'; 'Other small, harmless, cold-blooded
             | animals' is incredibly vague given the specificity of the
             | other requirements and covers many things.
             | 
             | I obviously dont get young people these days, at the ripe
             | old age of mid 20's I dont really think of myself as old, I
             | am happy to be put in my place by the next generation any
             | day of the week.
             | 
             | Do 'young' people really even think about getting married?
             | If people are to live an extra 10+ years, start professions
             | 2-3 years later, work many jobs more, buy houses 5+ years
             | later, maybe getting married a few years later isnt all
             | that odd?
             | 
             | tbh I did not even think of the mail order bride angle -
             | that would have been much stronger. Do celebrities still do
             | the mail order children thing? Where they pluck some infant
             | out of a refugee camp or warzone and adopt them into the
             | glitz and glamour of hollywood?
        
       | simlevesque wrote:
       | Does anyone know why you cannot ship a pheasant in december ?
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | Is too cold to survive
        
       | lxe wrote:
       | > Each queen honeybee may be accompanied by up to eight attendant
       | honeybees.
       | 
       | I wonder what happens if you sneak a few more non-queen
       | honeybees?
        
       | whyenot wrote:
       | You can also write an address on a fresh coconut, add postage,
       | and mail it, at least from some locations (pretty sure this
       | doesn't work from Floida to California).
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | I have a memory of posting a slice of bread to someone and by
         | coincidence being at his house when it arrived.
         | 
         | It seems so improbable in retrospect thay I wonder how much I
         | confabulated.
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | > Nonpoisonous Insects
       | 
       | So it's legal to just, say, mail a bunch of stink bugs and
       | roaches and fruitflies to businesses that send you junk mail or
       | <insert business you hate>?
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | My parents would mail order bricks of sleeping ladybugs. Put
         | one in the garden and when they thaw out, they eat all the bad
         | insects.
         | 
         | I always thought about putting one in someone's locker in high
         | school, but never did it.
        
           | ryanianian wrote:
           | You can also do this with praying mantises, but they come as
           | an egg nest. Put them under some leaves and a week or two
           | later baby mantises everywhere eating all the bad things.
           | After a couple months there's always a few big ones that
           | stick around. Surprisingly intelligent and curious little
           | things.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Just because postal regulations permit them to be mailed does
         | not preclude other reasons why that action might be illegal or
         | expose you to legal liability.
         | 
         | There are lots of actions that are legal in isolation that
         | become illegal when you do them to other people, particularly
         | when done with malice.
        
           | dheera wrote:
           | Their spam mail and abuse of customers is malice.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | Who is they?
             | 
             | ... _abuse of customers_?
        
               | dheera wrote:
               | Digging up my residential address or sharing it with
               | other businesses for any purpose other than to render
               | services (e.g. to send a package that I ordered, you
               | might need to share it with FedEx) is harrassment IMO.
        
         | djrogers wrote:
         | > fruitflies
         | 
         | careful with that one - there are interstate restrictions on
         | transporting insects that are unrelated to the USPS.
        
         | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
         | There's no pre-existing market for "a bunch of stink bugs",
         | however ladybugs are useful for non-toxic pest control (they'll
         | eat aphids), so they can be ordered via mail.
        
       | jetrink wrote:
       | I love lists like this. I remember waiting for a Greyhound bus
       | and reading the list of prohibited items and imagining the
       | stories behind each one. It ran on for pages. Human heads were
       | not allowed, even if frozen. Martial arts weapons like swords,
       | nunchucks and throwing stars got a section all their own,
       | separate from guns and knives. Each type of bodily fluid was
       | listed separately, lest someone assume that their jar of urine
       | didn't count.
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | There was an incident maybe 30 years ago where a medical school
         | employee went into New York (I think it was) to pick up a batch
         | of human heads to be used for teaching purposes. He left the
         | box in his car while taking care of another errand, and it was
         | stolen.
         | 
         | The box was found sitting on the sidewalk a few blocks away,
         | with the heads still in it.
         | 
         | One can only imagine what went through the thief's mind when he
         | opened his "prize".
        
           | np- wrote:
           | Regardless of the thief, it does seem a little concerning
           | that the chain of custody for actual human heads involves
           | being left unattended in a random employee's car.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | The world is not nearly as tightly controlled as one might
             | think. Lots of stuff is just some normal person's job to
             | not lose track of.
             | 
             | Body parts are only super custody tracked when they are
             | still viable lifesaving tools (ie organ transplant).
             | Besides that they aren't a huge deal.
        
             | kortilla wrote:
             | Why? They aren't going to escape.
        
               | LadyCailin wrote:
               | Well, they clearly did that one time.
        
             | dharmab wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_McCurdy#Post-
             | mortem_comm...
        
             | dexterdog wrote:
             | Once they've been relegated to the heap of experimentation
             | they really don't need to be controlled that much. Oddly I
             | would feel in some way violated if a loved one of mine had
             | died and his/her head were in that box, but if it happened
             | to my own head I would pay it no mind.
        
               | dharmab wrote:
               | There was a news splash several years ago about a body
               | donation intended for Alzheimer's research which was used
               | for military explosives testing:
               | https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-
               | body...
        
             | s0rce wrote:
             | A lab I worked in while I was in college had a freezer with
             | a bunch of human heads in it. pretty creepy.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | This was probably the gruesome incident that got heads banned:
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean
        
           | andai wrote:
           | > On February 10, 2017, the Manitoba Criminal Code Review
           | Board ordered Li be discharged. Li was granted an absolute
           | discharge. There will be no legal obligations or restrictions
           | pertaining to Li's independent living.
        
             | pwner39 wrote:
             | I understand that mens rea should generally be present in
             | crimes in order for convictions but eight years for doing
             | what he did is itself insane.
             | 
             | Reading up on his background, I wonder if he just snapped
             | and killed the guy out of anger for whatever reason and
             | then started cannibalizing the corpse so that he could play
             | the mental illness card at court.
        
               | scrps wrote:
               | If someone has an epileptic seizure or a diabetic goes
               | into hypoglycemic shock whilst driving and gets into a
               | head on collision and kills someone should they go to
               | prison? They call it mental _illness_ for a reason.
        
               | catillac wrote:
               | I've known people with epilepsy who were banned from
               | driving due to this possibly. If they had driven and
               | gotten a seizure and killed someone, they would have been
               | driving with a reckless disregard for the safety of
               | others, which is enough of a mens rea to form intention
               | for some level of murder conviction.
               | 
               | It is likely this is largely true, even if not formally
               | banned from driving, so the answer is probably yes to
               | your hypothetical they should go to prison, or pulling
               | the normative phrase out, likely would go to prison
               | (subject to many mitigating factors).
        
               | scrps wrote:
               | Perhaps epilepsy was a bad choice. How about for cardiac
               | arrest, stroke, or any number of undiagnosed medical
               | conditions that could cause someone to create
               | dangerous/fatal conditions outside of their control?
        
               | dahfizz wrote:
               | > They call it mental illness for a reason.
               | 
               | Even if we accept your premise that having a mental
               | illness precludes one from taking responsibility for
               | their actions, you still have to deal with the fact that
               | they are a serious danger to society. One of the uses of
               | prison is to take people who would otherwise murder and
               | eat people and remove them from society, so that they
               | can't do that.
        
               | scrps wrote:
               | https://laws-
               | lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-16.htm...
        
               | dahfizz wrote:
               | I am making a moral argument, not a legal one.
        
               | np- wrote:
               | Even if that's true, that's still well beyond a
               | reasonable bound of sanity. Agreed that 8 years seems a
               | bit light though, considering the notoriety of the crime.
        
             | _understood_ wrote:
             | 0_0
        
           | pwner39 wrote:
           | Eight years at a mental hospital for murdering and
           | cannibalizing a sleeping man, seems fair.
        
           | giorgioz wrote:
           | I wish I had not opened that link and read it.
        
           | twic wrote:
           | Unlikely, as in this case, at the time of boarding, the head
           | was still attached to Mr McLean.
        
           | the_gipsy wrote:
           | Why would that result in a prohibition of transporting human
           | heads? Are you OK?
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | Diederich wrote:
       | We've received day old chicks via USPS several times. The local
       | post office had different procedures. Rather than trying to
       | deliver, we were called as soon as they arrived requesting us to
       | come and pick them up.
       | 
       | It's pretty neat and kind of surprising at first. Of the hundreds
       | of birds we've received via USPS, none of them were DOA.
        
         | neolog wrote:
         | Do you have a farm or something?
        
           | Diederich wrote:
           | My family and I lived on a farm for a number of years in the
           | early 2000s. We raised chickens for eggs and meat.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | dtparr wrote:
           | Probably just a hungry pet fox.
        
             | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
             | Funniest troll I've seen in a while :-)
        
       | ddulaney wrote:
       | When I worked in a USPS facility, it was always a mix of emotions
       | when a box started chirping. On the one hand, cute baby birds! On
       | the other hand, they're going through an ordeal right now (they
       | got special non-machine handling, but it still wasn't pleasant
       | for them to be packed into cartons) and their destination was
       | most likely a factory farm.
        
         | captainredbeard wrote:
         | Factory farms special order birds and receive them via freight,
         | not USPS.
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | Newly hatched chickens can survive without food for more than
         | 24 hours. They only want to sleep and can travel perfectly at
         | this age, so is the usual way for amateurs to buy fancy chicken
         | breeds or small chicken of known sex.
         | 
         | So, most probably those chicken would end having a happy life
         | destroying carefully the backyard of somebody, one scratch at a
         | time.
         | 
         | There is also a special kind of fishes that lay eggs that can
         | travel perfectly without water in an envelope.
        
           | liveoneggs wrote:
           | killifish are the fish you are talking about
        
           | lisper wrote:
           | I don't see how anyone could possibly know what the
           | subjective experience of being a day-old chick stuffed in a
           | box would be like. But I can imagine what it would be like to
           | be a human stuffed in a box, and that doesn't seem very
           | pleasant. I don't see how the idea that it might be better
           | for birds (who are pretty clearly sentient creatures) could
           | be based on anything other than rationalization and wishful
           | thinking.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | Real life !== Disney films.
        
             | mod wrote:
             | I think a more apt comparison is to imagine a human being
             | shipped in a padded shipping container with a dozen of her
             | friends to keep her warm and help her feel safe.
             | 
             | I've had chicks shipped to me this way and it didn't appear
             | to be traumatic at all for them. They grew into happy,
             | healthy birds.
        
             | jdavis703 wrote:
             | I think the assumption that the fresh chicks just hatched
             | from an egg (or in the case of a human came out a womb)
             | wouldn't be too panicked about confined spaces.
        
             | nkrisc wrote:
             | > I don't see how anyone could possibly know what the
             | subjective experience of being a day-old chick stuffed in a
             | box would be like.
             | 
             | But then you go on to pretend to do exactly that.
             | 
             | You're projecting a negative human experience onto birds.
        
             | elliottkember wrote:
             | This is called "anthropomorphism" and is a form of
             | fallacious reasoning.
        
               | lisper wrote:
               | I call it empathy.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | Sympathy at best.
        
           | btilly wrote:
           | _They only want to sleep and can travel perfectly at this
           | age..._
           | 
           | I'm dubious. There is well-established research on the
           | importance of imprinting for new-born chicks across a wide
           | variety of bird species. Therefore, even if the chick spends
           | most of its time asleep, I would want to see research saying
           | that there is no problem due to intentionally depriving the
           | chick of an appropriate target to imprint on.
        
             | sethammons wrote:
             | I've never noticed anything different between chicks we
             | raised and those that came in the mail. They all come
             | running when when we walk into the back pasture.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | Where my wife is from, it's very common for neighbors to mail
         | one another chicks and ducklings as Easter presents.
        
         | Peretus wrote:
         | In case it's helpful to know, it's highly likely that the baby
         | birds that you helped shipped were destined for pretty nice
         | places! Factory farms don't get their birds this way, but small
         | farms do. Also of note, of the dozens times that we got baby
         | birds shipped to our farm when I was a child, it was very very
         | rare to find more than one or two that didn't survive the trip.
         | And sometimes we'd get shipments without a single loss.
        
         | blisterpeanuts wrote:
         | I'm awaiting a box of 6 chicks right now, probably coming
         | tomorrow, and they're going to have long and happy lives (I
         | hope). Egg layers.
        
         | sethammons wrote:
         | we've mail ordered chicks many times. Pretty normal for
         | backyard chicken wranglers. Our dozen or so birds have two
         | acres of fenced, lush, half tree-canopied land and a barn to
         | sleep in.
        
       | ryanianian wrote:
       | In general we tend to over-pack and over-engineer a lot of our
       | shipping and handling processes. Turns out many things just
       | aren't that big of a deal (like shipping bees).
       | 
       | My friend was stationed in Hawaii. She mailed me a coconut. No
       | box, just a stapled a first-class shipping label to it. Delivered
       | without issue.
        
         | brk wrote:
         | Wired magazine used to feature an odd mailed item each month,
         | which included a coconut, among other things. Some of them were
         | pretty cool and creative. Many would likely cause some kind of
         | terror alert if attempted today:
         | 
         | https://www.wired.com/2008/12/st-15returntosender/
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | Reminds me of a story I can't find online at the moment:
           | apparently when Games magazine still was published, people
           | would address letters to them with the address encoded as a
           | puzzle.
           | 
           | I guess the USPS finally just started sending them any mail
           | with a sufficiently confusing destination address.
        
         | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
         | The etch a sketch is hilarious. Every day of travel decreases
         | the chances of it getting to it's destination.
        
           | wsinks wrote:
           | I don't understand.. where did the context for an etch-a-
           | sketch getting mailed come from? Why does every day of travel
           | decrease the chances of it getting to its destination?
           | 
           | I have to know.. :)
           | 
           | *EDIT: ahhh, non-linear commenting! I went to the wired
           | article from the other comment and found what you're
           | referring to. I thought maybe they mailed it with a
           | picture... they mailed it with an address?! that's one hell
           | of a stress test.
        
         | xjlin0 wrote:
         | You are lucky -- not all fruit/seed can be mailed from Hawaii
         | to lower 48. Coconuts & pineapple are among exceptions.
         | https://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/plant_health/fs-ship...
        
           | kortilla wrote:
           | Upper, Hawaii is quite far south of the other states. :)
        
       | orangegreen wrote:
       | One of my favorite YouTube niches is turtle unboxing videos.
        
       | munificent wrote:
       | There's a number of different "monthyl random box of stuff in
       | some category" services these days. I had one for international
       | snacks for a while. My wife did one for cat toys. I've seen one
       | for fishing gear.
       | 
       | Clearly, what the world needs is one for animals. One month:
       | adorable baby chicks. Peep peep. Next month: S C O R P I O N S.
        
         | kiddico wrote:
         | Finally, something I can get my sister for Christmas!
        
         | RodgerTheGreat wrote:
         | I understand that you are probably joking. For anyone less
         | clear, _please_ remember that animals have complex needs in
         | terms of environment, food, and care to live healthy and
         | pleasant lives. Adorable baby chicks are not a pet to be
         | adopted lightly, without appropriate preparation. Chickens are
         | in many ways much more demanding than a cat or dog.
         | 
         | As a chicken owner myself, I've heard far too many sad stories
         | of people implulse-buying a chick at a hardware store or
         | livestock show, only for it to perish soon after due to easily-
         | avoided oversights or misunderstandings.
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | In the past, USPS used to mail humans, specifically children.
       | 
       | https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/maili...
       | 
       | This was because there were not clear guidelines regarding what
       | you could mail.
        
       | Amin699 wrote:
       | The specific types of day-old poultry named in 526.31 are
       | mailable subject to the following requirements:
       | 
       | Poultry that is not more than 24 hours old and is presented for
       | mailing in the original, unopened hatchery box from the hatchery
       | of origin. The date and hour of hatching is noted on the box by a
       | representative of the hatchery who has personal knowledge
       | thereof. (For Collect on Delivery (COD) shipments made by a
       | hatchery for the account of others, the name or initials and
       | address of the hatchery or the Post Office box number and address
       | of the hatchery must be prominently shown for this standard.) Box
       | is properly ventilated, of proper construction and strength to
       | bear safe transport in the mail, and is not stacked more than 10
       | units high. Day-old poultry is mailed early enough in the week to
       | avoid receipt at the office of address (in case of missed
       | connections) on a Sunday, a national holiday, or the afternoon
       | before a Sunday or national holiday. Day-old poultry can be
       | delivered to the addressee within 72 hours of the time of
       | hatching. Day-old poultry sent via surface transportation, must
       | include special handling service fees, in addition to regular
       | postage. Day-old poultry sent via air transportation must meet
       | all provisions of the airlines. Delivery of the mailpiece is
       | dependent on the availability of air carriers having available
       | equipment to safely deliver the day-old poultry within the
       | specified time limit. Day-old poultry that is first shipped via a
       | commercial air express or air cargo service and then presented
       | for mailing to a final destination must be in good condition and
       | properly packaged as specified in 526.32a-e. Boxes of day-old
       | poultry of about identical size, securely fastened together to
       | prevent separation in transit, may be accepted for mailing as a
       | single parcel, provided the total length and girth combined does
       | not exceed Postal Service limits.
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | 522.3, Packaging and Markings:
       | 
       | "A mailpiece marked "If Undeliverable, Abandon" may not be
       | accepted for mailing."
       | 
       | In other terms, you cannot put a dead animal in a box, then give
       | it to the UPS for them to dispose of. I wonder how many people
       | abused this particular "loophole" before they closed it.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | Surely it's cheaper to dispose of it with your other garbage,
         | or take it to a local dump, than paying postage to "mail" it?
        
           | cldellow wrote:
           | Our dump charges $125 per carcass, regardless of size.
           | 
           | But yeah, when they introduced that fee, my wife's family
           | just started burying newborn lambs that didn't survive,
           | rather than, y'know, fedexing them to people.
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | I have had koi delivered via UPS. But that's probably normal to
       | most people right?
        
       | wombat-man wrote:
       | Brb, getting started on PetsOvernight.com!
        
       | larsbrinkhoff wrote:
       | petsovernight.com
        
       | alex_young wrote:
       | I once had to go to a mail processing facility in SF to retrieve
       | a package which had had an exception in the delivery process.
       | That was it's own nightmare, but I digress...
       | 
       | The postal worker I eventually talked to had a desk in a little
       | office where she seemed to be sorting out issues for people like
       | me. I think my case was a pretty mild one, but she kept getting
       | calls from people about some live chicks which were somehow stuck
       | there. It did not seem like fun.
       | 
       | The post office is amazing. They are true unsung heroes.
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Luckily for you, USPS can't go on strike. There's usually quite
         | a few (non-human) deaths when Canada's postal workers go on
         | strike.
        
       | mabbo wrote:
       | Vaguely related and humourous:
       | 
       | > Uncle Milton Industries has been selling ant farms to children
       | since 1956. Some years ago, I remember opening one up with a
       | friend. There were no actual ants included in the box. Instead,
       | there was a card that you filled in with your address, and the
       | company would mail you some ants. My friend expressed surprise
       | that you could get ants sent to you in the mail.
       | 
       | > I replied: "What's really interesting is that these people will
       | send a tube of live ants to anyone you tell them to."
       | 
       | https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/the_security_...
        
       | incanus77 wrote:
       | I grew up rural and we fairly frequently ordered chicks by mail.
       | I told the story in college of one time, a message left on our
       | answering machine pleading "please, come get your chicks!" with
       | incessant peeping in the background, as we must have not been at
       | home during the mail delivery. For folks who grew up in the city,
       | even the thought of the whole thing was a very powerful (and
       | funny) story.
        
       | adamnemecek wrote:
       | I've been aware of this. It's really fucked up if you'd so me.
        
       | base3 wrote:
       | My neighbor gets regular deliveries of live roaches, which he
       | feeds to pet lizards. They come by US mail from a roach farm in
       | Arkansas. Some farmer must be laughing his way to the bank every
       | time he ships roaches to Los Angeles.
        
       | ourmandave wrote:
       | This reminds me of the horror pygmy marmosets or "Thumb Monkeys"
       | endure.
       | 
       | There's a very high mortality rate as they're poached and shipped
       | to people who have no idea how to care for one.
       | 
       | https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/no-pygmy-marmo...
        
       | exhilaration wrote:
       | No one has mentioned butterflies yet. Not an advertisement: we
       | ordered butterfly caterpillars from insectlore.com and it was
       | pretty awesome to watch them go through their life cycle. Our
       | kids were squealing with wonder when the butterflies finally
       | broke out of their chrysalises. Then after a day or two, we took
       | them to a nice wooded area and released them.
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | There is a very classic webpage related to this list of rules:
       | 
       | https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/T...
        
       | jgilm wrote:
       | I do not believe they would be mailed _to_ factory farms. My
       | daughter raised ducks for 4H. We ordered them _from_ a factory
       | farm and they arrived in 2 days (3 days from hatching). They had
       | a stable high-water-content gel in the box for hydration, but it
       | must have been an ordeal.
        
       | sappho wrote:
       | I keep insects as pets, and this seems to be a common way to get
       | live insects from point A to point B. I felt a little bad about
       | having them go through the surely-unpleasant process of being in
       | the mail for a couple days, but they came out on the other side
       | healthy enough that I didn't lose any.
       | 
       | Makes the idea of keeping pet insects that no store or breeder
       | sells near you a lot more affordable, which is nice, since a lot
       | of insects make such easy and practical pets.
        
       | FourHand451 wrote:
       | I worked in the campus post office while in college, and one of
       | the most memorable days during my time there was when a box of
       | live bees was delivered. It was about the size of a small loaf of
       | bread, wooden on four sides and covered by screens on the other
       | two.
       | 
       | We set them aside from the other boxes, near the counter where
       | students would come to pick up their packages. It sat there
       | buzzing quietly all day and generating a lot of surprised looks.
       | Pretty neat.
        
         | 5faulker wrote:
         | Hence the term "creating the buzz".
        
         | cultofmetatron wrote:
         | would you say it "generated a lot of buzz" among the students?
        
       | code4money wrote:
       | What happens when a package gets lost that contains an animal?
        
         | jacurtis wrote:
         | So I actually used to work at the Post Office (when I was in my
         | early 20s) and I was an express mail case worker. Essentially
         | what that means is that whenever people had a problem with
         | express mail (overnight and 2nd day mail, depending on
         | origin/destination), someone would file a case and it was my
         | problem to research it, solve it, or to conclude it lost, etc.
         | 
         | Anyway, virtually all animal shipping happens via Express Mail.
         | So it became my problem to handle most cases involving animal
         | shipping. I worked this job for about 2 years. I will tell you
         | that every day animals die within the USPS. The vast majority
         | die not because of the actual USPS, but because the people
         | shipping the animals did it improperly.
         | 
         | Here's a short list of specific cases I remember:
         | 
         | - Someone shipped a baby alligator. They didn't mark it as live
         | animal (because they thought it wasn't allowed) or ship it
         | appropriately. The alligator chewed through a portion of the
         | box by the time it arrived at the destination post office. A
         | worker looked through the hole and discovered what they thought
         | was a puppy, so they opened the box to save it and saw it was
         | an exhausted alligator. Local animal control was called and the
         | alligator wasn't able to be saved. Animal control disposed of
         | the body. Alligators are actually very commonly shipped and are
         | legal to ship, so if this person had done it correctly the
         | animal would probably have survived.
         | 
         | - Rare butterflies were sent from Vietnam via international
         | first class mail, when the box arrived it was flat and all the
         | butterflies were dead. It got escalated to me because no one in
         | first class mail knew how to handle animal cases. I remember
         | this case in excruciating detail because the recipient
         | continued to call and harass me for 3-4 months after this
         | happened. This was a weird borderline case because it was
         | international mail where the sending PO (in Vietnam) allows
         | sending of these animals but local PO (in USA) didn't allow
         | receiving of these animals. The guy was hellbent on getting
         | reimbursed for non-insured first class mail. He claims he spent
         | $10,000 on the butterflies. Since it wasn't insured we never
         | researched the legitimacy of this amount, nor did he receive
         | any compensation. Eventually Postal Inspectors were called just
         | because of his continued harassment.
         | 
         | - Baby Chickens are commonly shipped. I don't remember any
         | specific cases because in spring time I was handling 5-10 of
         | these cases EVERY DAY. They also commonly do not survive, even
         | when properly handled and shipped. So get your insurance if you
         | order baby chicks. These are some of the easiest insurance
         | reimbursements I have seen, they get approved faster than
         | almost anything else in the USPS. It's insanely common.
         | 
         | - Someone shipped a salt water fish of some kind. The fish
         | survived the transport but the recipient said the fish refused
         | to eat because it was so traumatized from our shipping methods.
         | So the fish went on a hunger strike and died a week or so
         | later. They had spent $1,500 on the fish and wanted
         | reimbursement. His reimbursement was denied.
         | 
         | - Someone shipped a fertilized Ostrich Egg. They packed it in
         | bubble wrap and had some of those hand warmers inside that you
         | use when skiing. When it was accepted by the recipient, they
         | opened it and discovered the egg had cracked during shipment.
         | Pretty standard boring case at first glance. But the reason I
         | remember it is because the insurance claim was originally
         | rejected because Ostrich was a non-indigenous fowl. Then the
         | recipient sent back a 20 slide powerpoint to me that they
         | created which proved that Ostriches are actually considered
         | farmed-poultry (who knew?). So then I passed it through as
         | approved but it was denied again because of improper packaging.
         | Eggs have to be sent in "hatchery" packaging. I don't think
         | that person ever got their insurance claim.
         | 
         | - Puppies. People actually try to ship puppies via USPS. Please
         | do not do this ever. You will have Postal Inspectors called and
         | they will fine you and charge you with a felony & animal abuse.
         | Same goes for kittens, although for some reason puppies were
         | more common than kittens. Both are big no-nos. Luckily these
         | usually get caught early on at the origin post office or at the
         | initial sorting facility, so many have been "saved" before they
         | passed away. Animal Control retrieves the animals and they go
         | to the pound/shelter. Either way Postal Inspectors get involved
         | 100% of the time in these cases. So its a sure-fire way to get
         | charged with a felony. I remember 2 cases where I was actually
         | able to find lost puppies and save them. One time I spent close
         | to 8 full hours tracking them down. They still go to animal
         | control when they are found, they do not continue onto the
         | recipient. The second time we found the lost puppies it was
         | because the destination PO discovered them and called the
         | police and the Postal Inspectors directly, but never updated
         | the tracking. So the puppies were safe (I think one died in
         | that case).
         | 
         | - Bees are very commonly shipped and they make it safely
         | through the mail system 99% of the time. They actually pack
         | them up and store them very well.
         | 
         | So what happens when a package gets lost? Well live-animals
         | have the highest priority in the USPS' case management system.
         | So even if I was behind on cases and working on cases that were
         | submitted days ago, as soon as an live animal case comes in, it
         | immediately moves to the next case above everything else. So
         | they are handled promptly. As a case worker we usually actually
         | picked up the phone to call sorting facilities when we were
         | dealing with a lost animal as opposed to sending emails like
         | usual for information. I'd say we tracked down around half of
         | all lost animal claims. Some would get discovered "too late",
         | and many would just get lost for good.
         | 
         | What happens when a deceased animal is discovered? If it was an
         | approved animal then it would go to the recipient as usual,
         | sometimes with a note. If the animal was unapproved (like a
         | snake or turtle for example) then Postal Inspectors are called.
         | If it was a larger animal or a mammal like a puppy or kitten,
         | then animal control is usually called to handle the body.
         | 
         | Lastly, Ill mention insurance. The way USPS does insurance
         | claims is a headache for everyone. We had a joke when I worked
         | there that the goal was for people to give up on fighting for
         | their insurance claim. Because that is what usually happened.
         | Payouts take 6 months or so on average. There is a lot of back
         | and forth and records need to be immaculate. Most people don't
         | have any proof of what they shipped or the value of what they
         | shipped. So claims were rarely approved.
         | 
         | Last I mentioned "Postal Inspectors". These are actual federal
         | agents that oversee USPS claims. They are essentially federal
         | police officers and they can arrest and charge you with
         | felonies. They investigate all sorts of stuff, like mailing
         | drugs, elaborate mail tampering schemes, and so forth. They
         | also handled cases where extreme animal neglect occurs while
         | shipping live animals. So keep that in mind when you ship a
         | live animal against the rules posted on that site, because you
         | can actually get a felony for it (like shipping dogs and
         | stuff).
         | 
         | Edit: This was nearly 15 years ago, so some practices and rules
         | might have changed since then.
        
         | sethammons wrote:
         | typically, the animal dies. We've had live fish not make it in
         | time to our door. Not as bad as this:
         | https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-12256846...
        
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