[HN Gopher] The Anglo-Saxon Classroom
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       The Anglo-Saxon Classroom
        
       Author : Thevet
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2021-08-17 03:55 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.historytoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.historytoday.com)
        
       | throwaway894345 wrote:
       | One of my favorite fun facts about Anglo-Saxon education is that
       | they had an alphabet that ended with "&" which they called "per
       | se and" meaning "(the character) & by itself (is the word) and".
       | Since it was that the end, they would say "and per se and" which
       | became "ampersand" over time. Moreover, the "&" glyph evolved
       | from the Latin "et" (meaning "and").
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand
        
         | sdrg822 wrote:
         | Just a slight comment - "&" was indeed called "and" (not "per
         | se"), but in reading the alphabet, it was confusing to say "and
         | and." To clear up confusion, one could say "and per se and,"
         | which was smooshed to become "ampersand."
         | 
         | "per se" was used for letters that could also be words "in
         | themselves"
        
           | throwaway894345 wrote:
           | > Just a slight comment - "&" was indeed called "and" (not
           | "per se")
           | 
           | Yes, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. It was only in reading
           | the alphabet.
           | 
           | > but in reading the alphabet, it was confusing to say "and
           | and." To clear up confusion, one could say "and per se and,"
           | 
           | I'm not sure if this is quite right. Per the above wikipedia
           | link:
           | 
           | > Traditionally, when reciting the alphabet in English-
           | speaking schools, any letter that could also be used as a
           | word in itself ("A", "I", and, "O") was repeated with the
           | Latin expression per se ('by itself'), as in "A per se A".
           | 
           | It seems that it wasn't about & being at the end of the
           | alphabet after all, but rather that it was a logogram that
           | could be used as a standalone word? Or maybe "because it was
           | at the end of the alphabet" meant that the "per se"
           | convention was uniquely useful for &, and thus it survived
           | longer than "I per se I" and "O per se O"?
        
             | sdrg822 wrote:
             | Good points!
        
       | Jtsummers wrote:
       | Interesting article. Unrelated: They had another linked at the
       | bottom which I wanted to read
       | (https://www.historytoday.com/archive/what-did-medieval-schoo...,
       | What Did Medieval Schools Do For Us?). However, instead there's a
       | notice I've hit my limit (one article?!?) but I did enjoy the
       | cartoon that they have there. Now if only they _would_ print the
       | rest in Latin, I could probably fumble through most of it without
       | needing to resort to my college books.
        
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