[HN Gopher] MasterCard to start phasing out magnetic stripes in ...
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MasterCard to start phasing out magnetic stripes in 2024
Author : w3ll_w3ll_w3ll
Score : 91 points
Date : 2021-08-16 20:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.mastercard.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.mastercard.com)
| [deleted]
| w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote:
| "The magnetic stripe will start to disappear in 2024 from
| Mastercard payment cards in regions, such as Europe, where chip
| cards are already widely used. Banks in the U.S. will no longer
| be required to issue chip cards with a magnetic stripe, starting
| in 2027.
|
| By 2029, no new Mastercard credit or debit cards will be issued
| with a magnetic stripe. Prepaid cards in the U.S. and Canada are
| currently exempt from this change."
| paxys wrote:
| My, really setting themselves aggressive targets huh.
| tpmx wrote:
| So most of my current cards (in Europe) have 3 interaction
| methods:
|
| In order of decreasing readability/communication reliability:
|
| 1. Magnetic stripe
|
| 2. NFC
|
| 3. EMV
|
| The EMV ("chip") method is the least insecure, but lately all of
| my cards have been started oxidating. And it seems like the pogo
| pins in almost all readers also started wearing out too. Chip
| reader failures have become very common lately.
|
| It's very common that I have to both clean the card before using
| it and also bend it while pushing it into the reader to
| counteract the worn out pogo pins in the in-store reader. Super
| annoying.
|
| NFC has been a saver, but because of the banks security risk
| (it's cleartext, after all) you can't really use it all of the
| time.
|
| The magnetic stripe seems like it never seems to stop working.
| I've assumed I can't use it outside of my native country, though,
| perhaps incorrectly.
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| You can request a new card from your bank, you will get it
| probably within a week. Problems solved.
| tpmx wrote:
| Sure, but it doesn't solve the worn out card EMV reader
| problem.
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| To echo my other comment: my chip broke on my debit card and
| the card refused to work with magstripe only (and it was broken
| in a way were the NFC thing also no longer functioned). So not
| sure if the magstripe has any functionality in the SEPA region
| based on that experience.
| sean1524 wrote:
| I think the magstripe is disabled in my region, I've never
| managed to use it on any of my cards. I tried testing it out
| to see if it even was functional. Surely they must work as
| I've heard quite a few stories of card skimmers...
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| There is definitely a card number on the magstripe on it,
| but i think you cannot make a transaction with it in the
| SEPA region. So you need to "clone" that card and make a
| transaction with it in a non SEPA region country and that
| is disabled by default on debit cards (not credit cards
| though).
| w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote:
| NFC (EMV Mode) is partially encrypted and much more secure than
| magnetic stripe
| tpmx wrote:
| I wasn't aware of that mode. Is there a way of figuring out
| if your card has NFC (EMV Mode), or is just blasting out the
| CC number/expiration date when powered up via induction?
| Reventlov wrote:
| Note that the CC number / expiration date are not used for
| contactless payment, and should not be enough to make a
| payment online.
| bryanthompson wrote:
| Almost all NFC you find these days is going to be a form of
| EMV and is encrypted.
|
| There was a form of contactless magstripe (MSD) that was
| not encrypted and has been phased out of usage as of like,
| late 2019 via card update bulletins.
| firebaze wrote:
| I can't remember ever having paid using the magnetic stripe in
| Europe since 2010 (having been to Spain, Italy, France,
| Netherlands, Romania and living in Germany), before I didn't
| use a credit card at all since it wasn't very popular here.
|
| Honestly curios: where (and when) did you make that
| observation?
| tpmx wrote:
| I made that observation from using a loyalty card from a
| grocery chain that only has a magnetic stripe. ~10 years from
| the same card now.
|
| (Sorry, this was unclear from the first iteration of the
| observation.)
| firebaze wrote:
| Thanks for the clarification!
| ddek wrote:
| I'm young enough to literally never have paid by swiping.
|
| Except for my exchange year in Texas.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Same here, but Britain introduced EMV cards in 2004 (France
| and I think Australia were earlier, but with the previous
| version).
|
| So you can have never paid by swiping and be well over 30.
| kergonath wrote:
| I have never had to use the mag stripe, ever. Failures happen
| sometimes with the chip as you mention, but it usually works on
| the second try.
| Reventlov wrote:
| >it's cleartext, after all
|
| What do you mean by "cleartext" exactly ? When I pay using my
| card with NFC, it's not really cleartext.
| tpmx wrote:
| Real-world demo: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?i
| d=com.github.dev...
| Reventlov wrote:
| Well... This kind of data you access with this app is not
| used to do contact-less payments.
| tpmx wrote:
| Show me? (Genuinly curious; I'm not claiming to be an
| expert in this field.)
| przemub wrote:
| Huh, wherever I try to use a magnetic stripe, the terminal
| would ask me that I have to use the chip. Even if a transaction
| failed when I used the chip.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Haven't used the magnetic strip in years in Canada.
|
| It just isn't a thing anymore.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| In recent years, I've had more transactions using the _embossed
| numbers_ than I 've had using the magnetic stripe. I've had a few
| taxis in various countries dig out and use one of the slide-
| across carbon-paper impression machines, once they got through
| the second or third round of "are you _sure_ you won 't pay with
| cash?". I've had _fewer_ cases of "our chip reader doesn't work,
| please swipe the card instead".
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| I'm pretty sure the magstripe is already somewhat disabled over
| here. My debit mastercard refuses to work outside of the European
| union unless I disable the geo locking in the banking app, and
| when my chip was broken the readers kept telling me to put the
| chip in.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| In the US, many POS terminals refuse to use the stripe until
| there have been 3 failed chip reads.
| pjmlp wrote:
| My debit cards only work with the chip, although the stripe is
| physically present, it doesn't contain any data (apparently).
| paulgerhardt wrote:
| That's just a bit on the mag strip that encodes if your card
| has a chip present.
|
| You can flip it with a writer and use the magnet strip again if
| you want.
|
| It's quicker as one doesn't have to wait for the Javacard OS on
| the chip to boot up and handshake. (Ie swipe and walk away vs
| insert, wait 4 seconds, remove).
|
| Wouldn't do this on my debit card but it's fine on credit cards
| with chargeback protection.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Isn't that going to lead to the transaction being denied,
| either by the bank (which knows there's a chip), or even the
| reader (does it know that all cards beginning WXYZ have
| chips, for example?)?
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| Interesting. That said, no desire to do this. I do
| effectively 100% of my transactions by watch now and that
| beats any alternative.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I sometimes keep my credit card near my iPhone. I have wondered
| about the impact on credit cards of the new MagSafe magnets in
| iPhones. I guess if there aren't magnetic strips anymore, I won't
| have to worry about it. OTOH, there won't be any backup if the
| chip doesn't work, which it doesn't always.
| brundolf wrote:
| There will still be NFC (on the card and, potentially, your
| phone). That's what I end up using most often these days anyway
| gnicholas wrote:
| I don't actually have NFC on any of my cards, though I do use
| it on my phone.
| drclau wrote:
| Why does it take so long? Where's the bottleneck?
|
| Where I lived over the last years (two countries in Europe), I
| don't even have to use the physical card. I just use contactless
| payments with the phone. Prior to that, it was contactless with
| card. Even ATMs work with contactless (not all, yet). Prior to
| that, it was chip. I honestly don't even recall the time when the
| magnetic stripe was needed.
|
| (edit) Think of this: I made an account with one of these neo
| banks, ordered the card too, and it took me over a year to
| activate it. I still don't use it. I just installed the virtual
| card into the phone's wallet and used the account like that.
| ohazi wrote:
| From the card companies' perspective, the alternative to
| magstripe isn't contactless, it's contact (the smart card IC
| embedded in the physical card).
|
| In the US, the card companies convinced merchants to adopt the
| EMV contact standard by implementing a liability shift that
| would make the merchants liable for card-present magstripe
| fraud after a certain date. For merchants using POS terminals,
| the liability shift happened in 2015, and for gas stations it
| happened a few months ago (after several delays). EMV contact
| coverage needs to be essentially 100% before they'll consider
| getting rid of magstripe completely.
|
| Contactless is an entirely optional sideshow, and is not
| required by anyone anywhere. It has lots of issues (they
| somehow managed to make it _less secure than magstripe_ (!),
| which is kind of appaling) and there are no plans to ever have
| it supersede EMV contact as the baseline standard.
| bamboozled wrote:
| Try visiting Japan, it's like 1989, everywhere you go.
| brnt wrote:
| Havnt used a magnetic strip in a decade. It's something from
| childhood!
| chousuke wrote:
| Living in Europe, I genuinely had no idea cards with magnetic
| stripes were still in use. I thought everything used chips
| nowadays.
|
| I still prefer my card for contactless payments though; using
| my phone is not really much more convenient since my phone case
| holds the card anyway and it at least works consistently.
| robcohen wrote:
| It really is mind blowing to me. Especially in a pandemic, why
| why why require a signature for anything? This is one of the
| few things that would reduce exposure that we already have a
| technical solution for. I just don't understand.
| cinntaile wrote:
| Surfaces don't matter much for covid, it's very unlikely
| you'll catch it that way.
| barbazoo wrote:
| As others have said, it doesn't have to be. Much of the world
| has long moved on from mag stripes and signatures.
| gruez wrote:
| >Especially in a pandemic, why why why require a signature
| for anything? This is one of the few things that would reduce
| exposure that we already have a technical solution for.
|
| Turns out infection from surfaces is basically a non-issue.
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-
| hygien...
| gruez wrote:
| >I honestly don't even recall the time when the magnetic strip
| was needed.
|
| for when you fly over to the US and need to use your card
| zz865 wrote:
| Assuming US starts to let people in again.
| tamaharbor wrote:
| Use the southern entrance.
| klipt wrote:
| There's a specific list of countries you can't travel from.
| Spend 2 weeks in any country not on that list and you're
| allowed in.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| The holdouts have long been the gas station fuel pumps.
| Though that is finally changing at least where I am many
| stations now support chip and tap card payments.
| xahrepap wrote:
| Gas stations around me (Utah) have all replaced their
| magstripe with a dual magstripe/chip reader. It drives me
| nuts though, because you still have to insert your card ALL
| THE WAY IN as if you're using the mag stripe, and then it
| decides which one to use.
|
| Are gas stations not a big target for skimmers? Why didn't
| they design it to avoid the magstripe-skimmers? have two
| inserts or something, I don't care. But now we're a FULL
| generation of gas station pumps away from being free'd from
| skimmers. I just don't understand.
|
| Also, don't get me started on the audio/video ads at the
| pump these days. They're the worst. I'd rather have to pay
| inside than have "while you're pumping" ads.
| jwineinger wrote:
| In my area (Minneapolis), Costco is the only fuel station
| I've seen with actual tap to pay (and it handles the
| Costco membership check as well).
| Scoundreller wrote:
| What I like about the gas station ones, at least where I
| am, is that they use Zero insertion force contacts
| instead of brush contacts, so they won't wear out the
| connector or your card. You can hear the machine click up
| and down as it engages.
| nitrogen wrote:
| A lot of pumps with the chip readers also have
| contactless readers, but the on-screen prompts still just
| say "insert card". If your chip card is also contactless,
| you should be able to just hold it in front of the
| contactless reader and save both time and wear.
| SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
| I'm in the US. The only places I've seen in the last year or
| so that still use the magnetic stripes are gas stations, and
| all the ones I usually go to take the chip.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| Alternatively, I have _never_ in the US been subject to a
| situation where if a chip didn 't work that the magstrip
| wasn't allowed.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| America. They dragged their heels switching to chips.
| xwdv wrote:
| More like the security wasn't necessary due to decreased
| liabilities.
| ddek wrote:
| The only reason I've started using my card lately is because
| Face ID is harder with a mask on.
| drclau wrote:
| Just in case you have an Apple Watch and weren't aware, or
| you plan to get one, there's this feature that made my life
| easier:
|
| _Unlock your iPhone with Apple Watch when you 're wearing a
| face mask_
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212208
| stingraycharles wrote:
| There's always that old book shop that doesn't have the latest
| and greatest yet. And this type of support is typically
| enforced by contracts; eg if you buy some device that accepts
| MasterCard, they promise it will be supported for at least 10
| years.
| jmharvey wrote:
| I've been trying to shift to contactless payments recently,
| and my anecdotal experience has been the opposite: mom-and-
| pop shops usually have some kind of terminal from a dedicated
| payments company (verifone, square, etc) that's been updated
| in the last few years, while big behemoths (e.g. Lowe's,
| Fedex, USPS) are the holdouts clinging to bespoke antiquated
| payments hardware.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The USA is a big holdup. I just traveled across the country and
| there are still filling (petrol) stations where the only card
| reader is stripe. See also other comments about the stripe
| being a fallback for chip as chip readers on POS terminals seem
| to be more fragile than magnetic stripe readers.
|
| FWIW, Contactless is very hit-or-miss for me in the US; about
| 1/3 the time it just doesn't work at all (even with multiple
| retries), and that's when the terminal has one. Was picking up
| something at the corner store the other day, realized I didn't
| have my wallet and contactless just didn't work with the phone
| at all for some reason.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Yea, the Achilles Heel of contactless (or phone/NFC) in the
| USA is the uncertainty that it's supported and the terrible
| UX for failure cases. How many times have you had this
| happen?
|
| Your groceries are all rung up and the POS terminal is
| waiting. You dig out your phone or contactless card and try
| to invoke the contactless payment system. Nothing's
| happening. You wave it around a little. Still nothing.
| Grocery cashier is looking at you like you're an idiot nerd,
| saying "That thing doesn't work. Just stick the card in the
| slot." Now I dig in my wallet looking for my chip card as the
| whole line behind me huffs about how much of a moron I am.
| Stick it in the POS terminal, and it waits... and waits...
| and waits... and finally, loudly proclaims BONK BONK BONK
| transaction approved. Everyone other than me is saying
| "Finally, we can move on".
|
| Contrast that with mag swipe: Pull out the card. Swipe it
| (which takes 500ms). Done.
| bovermyer wrote:
| I dunno, I've had plenty of instances where swiping a card
| doesn't work. Sometimes I'd have to put a plastic bag
| around the card and _then_ swipe it.
| bluGill wrote:
| Those exist, but they are somewhat rare overall. The chip
| does take a lot longer than it should in most cases (I'll
| give them 2 seconds - which is enough time to cross
| satellites in geosynchronous orbit, for land based
| internet connections 50ms is plenty of time).
| secabeen wrote:
| I've had that too, but when that happens, it's obvious to
| others; they can see you swiping again and again. Failed
| NFC just looks like you're standing there.
| MR4D wrote:
| > Failed NFC just looks like you're standing there.
|
| Or worse...it _feels_ like you 're just standing there.
| God, I hate that!
| asdff wrote:
| Wrapping it in receipt paper works great too
| syshum wrote:
| Atleast you are not the person still writing a paper
| check.....
|
| I switched to curb side pickup, I hope I never have to
| enter a grocery store again
| wcarss wrote:
| Coming from Canada: my last experience with the stripe,
| >3-4 years ago, was more like: pull out the card. Swipe it
| (it doesn't work), Swipe it (it doesn't work), Swipe it
| _slowly_ (it doesn 't work), wrap a garbage bag around it
| and Swipe it _slowly_ (it doesn 't work), Swipe it _one
| last time_ -- hey, it works! Then, physically sign my name
| on some piece of paper with a gross pen they had lying
| around.
|
| vs my last 100 contactless payments: pull out the card,
| tap. Almost instant happy beep.
|
| I once actually got stuck at La Guardia because of the
| chip/stripe divide. I hadn't thought to get enough US cash
| out in advance, and all I had was my Canadian CC and Debit
| cards. I'd used nothing but the chip on the CC for > a year
| and didn't realize the magnetic stripe was completely worn
| off!
|
| I tried several money-changers and ATMs there, and even
| called my bank -- _no_ options at all. I finally found $5
| CAD in my backpack and changed it to USD for bus fare, then
| caught a local bus to a nearby _actual bank_ , where they
| were finally able to use my ID and the card number to
| authorize an advance. It was a heck of a day.
| vidanay wrote:
| I've been in a retailer within the last two years that still
| used paper and and imprint machine to process credit cards.
| anakaine wrote:
| On your point about contact less being hit-or-miss, this very
| much goes away when you have a number of options for vendors
| to choose from on the market, with terminals being supplied
| mainly by banks who want the business. Both competition and a
| lack of desire to deal with merchants having issues with the
| payment system provided lead to increases in reliability.
|
| The overseas market has been saturated with chips for 10-15
| years, and contact less for 5+, probably notably more.
| jalk wrote:
| I have asked in several stores (in Denmark) where
| contactless doesn't work, but the terminal has the required
| hardware - The merchant has to pay a fee to enable
| contactless. My auto mechanic bitched loudly about it,
| until I told him he wanted $200 for enabling "daytime
| running lights" in my rear lights, which is also just
| "flipping a bit"
| poopypoopington wrote:
| To play devil's advocate - who cares? We've had magnetic strips
| for decades and they work fine. Yes, they're insecure but anti-
| fraud measures taken by the bank can mitigate that. If this
| helps more stores accept payments without having a painful
| transition isn't that worth it? I use Apple Pay most places but
| I don't mind having to use a strip once in a while or if others
| do.
| Johnie wrote:
| Think about who is paying for that fraud. Prior to EMV
| liability shift, Banks paid for the fraud. After Liability
| Shift, merchants are paying for fraud using magstripe.
|
| Merchants don't want to be responsible for the fraud, so they
| are incentivized to get rid of the mag stripe.
| xattt wrote:
| I really doubt that banks will pass on the savings onto the
| consumer of fraud mitigation once EMV is fully implemented.
| syshum wrote:
| Depends on the transaction, but merchants can absolutely be
| liable for fraud before the EMV shift...
|
| Also the rate of mag fraud is still pretty low, more Online
| Fraud which was ALWAYS liable to the merchant and did not
| see to do much ti incentivize any changes there.
|
| Causing 90% of your customers pain to save less than 1% on
| fraud is likely going to cost merchants more than just
| paying for the fraud, which is also the math online
| merchants used. Online merchants that have huge fraud
| prevention lost more customers than the fraud....
|
| Hell I remember one time a online merchant wanted me to
| submit more info after the sale for anti-fraud... I
| cancelled the order and bought from someone else
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| >painful transition
|
| How painful could it possibly be to go and buy a new card
| reader? Why doesn't the payments provider offer them as part
| of the service? They are not so expensive.
| jjk166 wrote:
| The reader may be cheap, but the things its integrated with
| aren't. If it costs $20k to replace a gas pump and you have
| a half dozen pumps, the cost of replacing them might be
| comparable to the value of the gas station. A grocery store
| point of sale system is even more expensive, around $40k a
| pop. Maybe you're lucky and the manufacturer of your
| current setup has made it in such a way that the card
| reader can be swapped out without replacing the entire
| thing, but that's a big if.
|
| It's not like this is an investment that will lead to more
| customers or new revenue, this is a big expense just to
| stay afloat. Getting financing for such an expenditure is
| extremely difficult. At least in a mixed ecosystem you
| might be able to recoup some of the cost selling your old
| equipment, but no one's going to buy it if it's going to
| stop working soon.
| [deleted]
| bpodgursky wrote:
| I heard that gas station pumps were a big blocker for a while.
| siruncledrew wrote:
| I think the merchants are the bottleneck in this case
| moviuro wrote:
| Highway tolls didn't have contactless in France until 2016 at
| _best_. It 's getting better now.
|
| https://www.autoplus.fr/securite-routiere/peages-le-paiement...
| - only 20 contactless toll gates in all of France in 2016
| (gates, not tolls).
| kergonath wrote:
| They seem to be everywhere now.
|
| France was the earliest adopter for chip and chip+pin, but
| they have been somewhat late to the contactless party (for a
| EU country).
| djhworld wrote:
| > I honestly don't even recall the time when the magnetic
| stripe was needed.
|
| Every time I've been to the US it's still magnetic stripe in
| places like restaurants/bars where the wait staff whisk your
| card away and then 4 days later the charge ends up appearing on
| your card.
|
| I saw chip and pin (or sometimes the odd chip and sign)
| appearing in the big shops/chains like walgreens though so I
| guess it's slowly changing.
|
| It felt a bit like what the UK was like 15-20 years ago.
| [deleted]
| mullen wrote:
| The Pandemic has really changed how credit cards are handled
| here. Pre-Pandemic, Tap and Pay was fairly rare, but now, it
| is everywhere (Nearly 90% by my informal count). The odd
| thing I noticed is that the smaller the market, the more
| likely the store/shop uses Tap and Pay. American's are also
| using their phone more to pay.
| [deleted]
| akmarinov wrote:
| I'm from Europe and honestly I've never used a magnetic strip to
| pay with a card. Looks really cool though.
| protomyth wrote:
| I wonder what the statistics are on gas station pumps in the US
| for magnetic card versus other methods?
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| Yea--hooray, it shouid have been done years ago.
|
| I would rather see MasterCard lower their fees, and take 100%
| liability for stolen numbers/information.
| perardi wrote:
| Why wouldn't everywhere be supporting contactless payments by
| this point?
|
| And that's not me being snippy, because perplexingly, Mariano's,
| a grocery store chain in Chicago owned by Kroger's, does _not_
| support NFC payments. (I assume Kroger's stores proper don't
| either.) You have to swipe, use the chip, or use the dedicated
| Kroger Pay app to scan a QR code to use your digital wallet.
| _(Yes, really. Took them forever to even support chips instead of
| magstripes.)_
|
| I have absolutely no idea why they do this. Is there a higher
| interchange fee for contactless? Kroger's isn't some mom-and-pop
| convenience store--they're the largest supermarket company by
| revenue.
| yakz wrote:
| I've been shopping at Kroger regularly for decades and my guess
| is that it might have something to do with the timing around
| their last major payment terminal upgrade. They upgraded before
| NFC payments were very popular but fairly close to when they
| really needed to support chip cards (my recollection was that
| the payment networks were saying they would no longer insure
| against fraud without a chip terminal), and it seems like for
| whatever reason they went with a terminal that didn't support
| it.
|
| I remember being annoyed with seeing all of the seemingly
| brand-new hardware being installed at multiple locations that
| very obviously lacked NFC payment support.
| paxys wrote:
| Because these chains have decades old point of sales systems
| which no one wants to touch. It isn't simply a matter of
| swapping out one card reader for another.
| yakz wrote:
| They did swap out all of the payment terminals, though. Just
| for ones without that functionality. However, I could believe
| that they selected the hardware because they were stuck with
| choices that were compatible with other systems. Kroger is a
| big company with quite a lot of resources, though.
| leesalminen wrote:
| Kroger brand stores have terminals that support contactless.
| Their self checkout lanes get new hardware and/or software
| every couple of years.
|
| I've worked with many payment gateways over the years and
| enabling contactless on a stack that already did EMV never
| required a code change on the POS system. The terminal just
| passes the same data along to the POS.
|
| I'm convinced there's some fees at play here. The standout to
| me is how they push Kroger Pay - that's to save on processing
| fees.
| champtar wrote:
| Do they mandate chip + pin yet ? Some years ago I got a Credit
| Card in the USA with chip but without pin, thus unusable in some
| places in Europe.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I hope that means Home Depot and Target have to accept tap to
| pay...
| barbazoo wrote:
| Home depot in Canada does.
| fullstop wrote:
| Target, at least in the USA, supports tap & pay. Home Depot is
| still holding out, though.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Do mobile devices work? The Target here does not accept Apple
| Pay...
| fullstop wrote:
| Yes, I use my Android device. They list Apple Pay as being
| supported. [1]
|
| 1. https://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat
| =Acc...
| dane-pgp wrote:
| > By 2033, no Mastercard credit and debit cards will have
| magnetic stripes
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if, by 2033, people will be identified
| using biometrics everywhere, so you can pay with your hand print
| or face scan.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Maybe FedNow could take over the mobile payment industry
| depending on how truly instant it is, and become similar the
| role WePay takes in China.
|
| https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about....
| whimsicalism wrote:
| WePay and Alipay have their dual in CashApp and Venmo. The
| only difference being that Alipay has a lot more
| institutional support, ie. you can scan your QR code at the
| grocery store - not the case with Venmo (yet).
| asdff wrote:
| Venmo offers debit and you can add the card to your wallet
| hamburgerwah wrote:
| Still a LOT of merchants that need to upgrade equipment to do
| chip cards including some large franchises. There is a real
| problem that chip reading devices do not yet have anywhere near
| the longevity that magswipe use does. Machines go out of service
| for repair and cleaning after as little as a month of use in busy
| locations. Magstripe machines typically lasted 12 months plus
| before needing attention.
| Kiro wrote:
| Where do you live? I haven't seen a card terminal that can't do
| chip in like 15 years. The old terminals that need to be
| upgraded are the ones that can't do contactless but even those
| are rare. A card terminal that can only do magnetic seems
| really alien and ancient.
| anakaine wrote:
| This is just not true. It is even less true for readers that
| support contactless payment.
| derefr wrote:
| Who cares about inserting chips into the machine? We're already
| well past that, to contactless payment -- tapping the chipped
| card against the terminal like an NFC door tag. It still _uses_
| the chip, and _can_ still require your PIN (depending on your
| bank); you just don 't stick the card in the machine to do it.
| MTBF = approximately forever.
|
| Inserting the chip is a fallback, or for high-value
| transactions. Both use-cases are low-volume enough that a POS
| terminal's chip-slot reader should see relatively little
| use/wear.
| laptop-man wrote:
| most stores in my town (pop 500, US, mi) still take personal
| checks. mag reader is needed for fuel pump. a few times needed in
| store when ship reader wasn't working.
| kzrdude wrote:
| I've wondered if I shouldn't just rip off the magnetic stripe - I
| never use it, and it's just a security risk.
| leotravis10 wrote:
| > Prepaid cards in the U.S. and Canada are currently exempt from
| this change.
|
| I'm telling you all, prepaid cards are a scam. Why? One of the
| reasons besides massive fees and shady tactics for most are
| because they're so far behind the times. Most don't even have a
| chip for example. Look at a Netspend card (using it as a prime
| example) and compare it to any bank card today.
| latchkey wrote:
| I'd prefer we just phase out MasterCard. I went to a restaurant
| the other day. QR code on the receipt. Scan that and it opens up
| Toast. Toast then connects to Apple Pay, which then connects to
| my credit card. No less than 3 middlemen to pay the restaurant,
| is absurd.
|
| QRCode -> Wallet on my phone holding stablecoin on a L2 like
| polygon (which is collecting APY through DeFi) -> Restaurant
| numbsafari wrote:
| Hello Strawman.
|
| Does anyone actually pay the way you described? Honestly?
|
| I either swipe my card or hand it to them to do it for me and
| call it a day.
|
| I don't have to worry about some cryptojockey screwing up a
| DeFi contract scheme and all my money being stolen in a non-
| FDIC insured account. I have fraud protections against card
| theft.
|
| It ain't perfect, but it's not the electronic equivalent of
| walking around with me lucky charms in my fanny pack, ripe for
| the mugging, either.
| larrybud wrote:
| While your point is valid regarding a crazy number of
| middlemen, I've also paid via the QR code on the receipt at a
| number of restaurants recently and I love it! No need to flag
| down a server when it's time to pay; I just scan it on my
| phone, click on apple pay, enter the tip, and I'm done!
| latchkey wrote:
| Don't get me wrong, I love it too. I didn't suggest getting
| rid of the QR code, just the backend flow of middlemen taking
| fees from the restaurant.
| nashashmi wrote:
| Of the three modes nfc is my favorite, takes less time, but also
| works less reliably. Chip takes the longest time. And I keep
| removing it early out of habit. And stripe is the least used. But
| works the best.
| kergonath wrote:
| Yeah, it was very confusing the first time I went to the US for
| more than a couple of days. When getting some cash, I was used
| to putting the card in ATMs and leave it there during the
| operation. In the US, the ATM did nothing before I took the
| card out.
|
| When I came back I kept pulling the card early.
| asdff wrote:
| That is to help you so you don't forget your card in the ATM
| after you finish your business.
| [deleted]
| KingMachiavelli wrote:
| Even in the US, I can't remember when I last had to use the
| magstrip. [1] I could probabbly degauss the magnetic strip and
| not have any issues. If you have a chip debit card that you never
| use... it probably isn't a bad idea to make the card chip only.
|
| What I actually want is a specific bank alert if the card is used
| without the chip. Currently I just make any transaction over $20
| send an email.
|
| [1] I guess at resturants where they actually take the card for a
| minute, I don't know if it's chip or magstrip transaction.
| modeless wrote:
| I'll believe it when I see it. I heard signatures were going away
| years ago and yet I keep getting asked for signatures.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| Signature requirement has gone away in the US (and Mastercard
| was also the first to do that was well).
|
| Just so many merchants are accomplished to asking for it (or
| haven't updated their terminals to code for not asking for it)
| - which is why you still encounter it.
| kuroguro wrote:
| Haven't had to sign anything for 15+ years, newer cards don't
| even have the space for signatures (Europe/MasterCard).
|
| I do have to do the mag-swipe maybe once a year, if the chip
| reader is acting up (still no signature, it asks for the PIN).
| ollien wrote:
| I just got a new credit card recently. There definitely still
| is the space for signatures in the US. I actually once had a
| store turn me away because I didn't sign it.
| lrem wrote:
| Got a new Mastercard in Europe this year, still with
| signature space. Same for Visa from two banks.
| kuroguro wrote:
| Couldn't find the exact card, but here's an example from my
| neighbors if anyone's interested. I guess it's not a thing
| everywhere yet.
|
| https://www.swedbank.lt/img/private/d2d/cards/3dSecure/816x
| 2...
|
| _edit_
|
| They dropped the requirement in 2018
|
| https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2018/signing-off-
| maste...
| w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote:
| Nice video!
| kzrdude wrote:
| Got a new mastercard (debit) without signature field and a
| mastercard (credit) with embossed numbers and signature
| field. It makes sense with the debit/credit split.
| tyingq wrote:
| I think some of it is just them not marketing features. I was
| unaware that my card would do the NFC/no-pin-needed thing until
| I paid attention to someone in front of me in line one day.
| swiley wrote:
| Signatures are for you, not the card company. This is why I
| sign with a nonce.
| drawfloat wrote:
| What's his name?
| modeless wrote:
| No, they're for the merchant. They don't benefit me at all.
| But merchants were supposed to stop requiring them by now.
| swiley wrote:
| They're supposed to help you locate fraudulent transactions
| after your card is stolen. I guess that benefits the
| merchant because it makes you less likely to mark
| legitimate transactions as fraudulent.
| modeless wrote:
| No, you can't see the signatures, so they don't help you
| locate fraudulent transactions. What they do is provide a
| defense for the merchant _against_ you. If you try to say
| you didn 't authorize the charge, then the merchant can
| produce the signature as proof that you did. The
| signature is never evidence that you _weren 't_ there.
| Even if it is someone else's name, that doesn't prove
| anything, so it never benefits you.
| derefr wrote:
| In a world where that was actually the goal, you'd
| presumably be able to see a little image of the signature
| used, beside each card-provided charge in on your credit
| card in your online banking portal.
| bryanthompson wrote:
| There are some reasons it still exists, however, it is no
| longer required and merchants/POS systems ought to start
| phasing it out.
|
| In the US, the way we do tip on receipt is a lot more natural
| if you're asking for a signature. Without a signature, you're
| just handing someone a tip option, which is awkward with our
| current way of doing things.
|
| Some merchants opt to keep signature enabled because it gives
| them a fuzzy feeling and it's a point of closure to a
| transaction.
| djhworld wrote:
| When I was over there I constantly got confused around the
| tipping system and how some bars keep a tab open for you (by
| take your card and putting it in a little book at the back
| and then you pay/tip at the end)
|
| I didn't trust that so I ended up just signing the receipt
| and adding the tip to the bottom and keeping my card in my
| wallet. Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of
| tips that night!
| learc83 wrote:
| >Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips
| that night!
|
| You generally tip based on percentage or the number of
| drinks, so it shouldn't matter too much unless you're doing
| it by percentage and rounding up the nearest dollar.
| anakaine wrote:
| For those abroad, even the notion of tipping can be absurd.
| Using that notion as a point of support for a payment system
| the levies fraud responsibilities onto the merchant and is
| very easy to circumvent, and the reason most other places
| moved to chip+pin, or contactless a long time ago is even
| more amusing.
|
| I understand what you're saying, and how its locally
| relevant, but from the outside looking in the US is a long
| way behind on keeping up with the tech in this space.
| nicoburns wrote:
| Lot's of payment terminals in the UK allow the customer to
| input the service charge themselves before they enter their
| PIN. Otherwise the waiter/waitress typically asks you how
| much you want to pay before typing in the amount. If you're
| splitting the bill then they need to do that anyway.
| syshum wrote:
| >>Otherwise the waiter/waitress typically asks you how much
| you want to pay before typing in the amount.
|
| That is never going to work in the US. Very few people
| would be comfortable with that.
| derefr wrote:
| Here in Canada, portable POS terminals usually have a
| screen before "TAP/INSERT CARD" that says "Add tip?" and
| offers vendor-set default options, usually either
| 10%/12%/15% or 12%/15%/20%. The fourth option is always
| "custom", which allows people to enter 0 if they wish.
| (There are also payment flows that have an initial "Yes/No"
| on the "Add Tip?" question, in cases where a tip may or may
| not make sense, e.g. a bakery/deli that offers both high-
| touch dine-in and extremely-low-touch "we just take it from
| the fridge and give it to you" take-out service.)
|
| Since Canada and the US have basically the same tipping
| culture, these POS systems seem to be already tailored for
| adoption in the US market (or at least, being cloned by US
| POS mfgrs.) Not sure why they haven't been.
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